Dear @SenSanders I gave you $27 when I was Bernie curious. I didn't know you would use it to try to destroy the party. I want a refund.
— John Cole (@Johngcole) May 15, 2016
I have now officially lost all patience with Bernie and his supporters after the bullshit in Nevada this weekend:
There was palpable tension between the two camps throughout the day at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas, with Clinton supporters barely outnumbering those supporting Sanders among the more than 3,400 conventiongoers. Still, a 33-person delegate lead was enough to sway the division of a dozen delegates who were up for grabs Saturday in her favor.
Who would win the majority of those delegates remained uncertain going into Saturday because Sanders was allotted more delegates to the state convention. In April, Sanders had turned out more of his supporters to the county conventions — even though Clinton had won the popular vote in the February caucuses — thus allowing him to send more delegates to the state convention.
Based on the presidential preference of conventiongoers, Clinton won seven delegates Saturday, while Sanders won five between two categories of delegates. Each category — at-large delegates and Pledged Leader and Party Official delegates — had an odd number of delegates, which means a narrow Clinton win gave her the delegate advantage in each category.
***Several Sanders supporters, however, put together what they called a “minority report” of 64 Sanders supporters they believe were wrongly denied delegate status. According to state party representatives, six of those were eventually allowed as delegates, and the rest were denied delegate or alternate status because either they or their records could not be located or they were not registered Democrats by the May 1 deadline.
Eight Clinton supporters were denied delegate or alternate status for similar reasons, according to the state party.
They then basically rioted, Hotel Security had to shut shit down, and that led to Berners screaming that the fix was in. They don’t even get that things couldn’t proceed normally because they were acting like juvenile delinquents. As I noted elsewhere, Bernie voters are like college students who want their current grade changed because they didn’t read the syllabus, or because their GPA is important, or because they thought they did better, or they don’t think the rubric on an assignment is fair, or because they worked really hard and are convinced they deserve a better grade.
I am sick of these petulant assholes thinking that just because they really, really want Bernie means they can do or say anything they want.
When I joined the Democratic party, I didn’t come with a bunch of demands. I knew the party I was joining, warts and all, and I supported it and tried to make changes within via donations and voting. That’s how it works in a two party system. That’s how it works in a democracy.
Sick of these fucking wankers.
Immanentize
Even Charles Pierce, who was more than a little Bernie curious, is telling Sen. Sanders to pack it in:
esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a44904/nevada-democratic-convention/
as he says — all this craziness for four delegates?
JPL
Thanks, Obama!
Eric U.
I am pretty sure we should get rid of caucuses. Of course, they gave us Obama, but I think he would have won anyway.
RSA
“Is there extra credit?”
rikyrah
I wrote earlier today that those turned away for not being registered Democrats had until
MAY 1ST
to do so.
May 1st.
From February.
But, they couldn’t be bothered.
phuck ’em.
singfoom
But, if you’re not #BernieorBust, you support imperialist warmongering, torture and everything bad ever, right? I was Bernie curious and supported him until the NYDN article. Now I just can’t wait until this fucking primary season is over, and then until this election season is over.
@JohnCole:
I’m not sure how, but not voting for Clinton in the general and/or voting for Jill Stein or whatever will somehow bring the demise of the two party system. Don’t get me wrong, I think the two party system and first past the post fucking blows ass, but I don’t understand these underpants gnomes plans our Berniac friends seem to have.
The two party system has stayed strong through a LOT of people not voting for years and years now, but somehow our Berniac friends staying home is going to….. PROFIT/Destroy the two party system.
Sigh.
L Boom
And in other “Fuck the Sanders” news, Burlington College just sent this email about to staff and faculty a little while ago:
Well done, Jane.
WarMunchkin
I can’t really find anything that reassures me about our convention not being a shitshow. I still remember Antonio Villaraigosa messing up the voice vote on Israel in 2012.
kindness
BernieBros are a lot more like TeaHaddists than I care to admit.
cleek
the entire Sanders campaign, top to bottom, has been an exercise in special pleading. from BernieMath to complaining about the south or how black people don’t vote correctly or the order of things or the Supers or party rules or primary rules… everything has always been about how things are just unfair !
#PoutyFace
rikyrah
@L Boom:
wow.
for real?
Ella in New Mexico
Meh-
A buncha Party insiders having a brawl in the parking lot does not a big story make. Sounds more like a Nevada Democratic Party problem than an indictment of Sanders supporters nationwide, the rest of whom haven’t had their chance to vote and just want to show up, fill in the bubble and go home.
All I can say is I am so very happy that we are less than a month away from the final reckoning on June 7th when this thing will be over.
Must be a slow news day…
AxelFoley
@rikyrah:
Girl, I love it when you talk dirty.
dmsilev
@rikyrah: Apparently at least one of the rejected delegates was registered as a Democrat, and then switched to Independent because reasons.
Sigh.
rikyrah
@WarMunchkin:
This truly can be placed at DWS’s feet. She was trying to be too cute by half. She wanted a coronation for Hillary, but wanted to pretend that she didn’t.
You best believe that the GOP wouldn’t have let anyone but a REPUBLICAN run for the GOP Nomination…even, if only on paper.
Even those Libertarian mofos don’t talk as much shyt about the GOP has Bernie has about the Democrats over the years.
schrodinger's cat
How many more primaries left? BS campaign, please go home.
schrodinger's cat
@cleek: Bernie math is complex because his numbers are imaginary.
Michael Bersin
They’re upset because they didn’t bother to RTFM? Inconceivable.
schrodinger's cat
I predict 500+ comments.
Tim C.
On the other hand, my FB feed, which was very Bernie heavy the last few months is transitioning to “She ain’t perfect, but I ain’t stupid” I’m in “Chill the F out, she’s got this.” mode.
April
@Ella in New Mexico: “party insiders” who aren’t registered as Democrats? “In a parking lot” but somehow they threw chairs and disrupted inside the ballroom area? I do not understand willful embrace of unreality. I know that no one candidate is without crazy supporters, but the picture you draw of what happened does not comport with reality. “Meh” you say? Sure, if you don’t look at all at what happened you can dismiss your version of reality with a “meh”.
Did I miss sanders speaking out against those who did the ugly shouting down of people at a Hillary rally in Los Angeles? Has he said anything about his supporters needing to tone some of the violence down? If he has not spoken out against it, then some of this is on him. If we want to hold Donald accountable for not tamping down violence, how can we give Bernie a pass even tho his supporters violence is less?
schrodinger's cat
NR and Bob in Fantasy Land will soon be here to defend the honor of St. Bernard.
Mike J
@rikyrah: I often hear this blaming of DWS, but I don’t know what it stems from. She didn’t want 10,000 debates, that’s true. I suggest you read the threads here for the last three or four debates. Almost every single person thought they were stupid and pointless and should have been skipped, and people who hang out on politics blogs are by definition among to most politically engaged.
schrodinger's cat
@April: St Bernard is never wrong, he can only be wronged, so sayeth Ella in New Mexico.
Splitting Image
Count me among those who thinks that a good chunk of the “Bernie-bros” are former Ron Paul voters who parked their vote with Sanders after Rand Paul’s campaign tanked. They are now on their way back to their former and future home.
I’ll give Sanders this much credit: he did pull together most of the “Anybody but Clinton” coalition that Obama rode to victory in 2008. Unfortunately, considering how little room Obama had to spare in that fight, “most” was never going to cut it this time out.
L Boom
@rikyrah: Yep. :( It means a lot of lost academic jobs, and a lot of kids with student loans and very difficult-to-transfer credits for courses that were extremely tailored to a student’s interests. And Burlington College kids aren’t exactly famous for blazing through and graduating quickly.
ETA: It also snowed last night and this morning. There are some very unhappy gardens around here.
Sloegin
They *really* need to move up the Cali primary. Sure it’s an 800lb delegate gorilla, but so is Texas and NY.
It shouldn’t be left out there to serve as a fever hope lifeline, dragging this thing out.
shomi
These are the same idiots who were reading FireDogLake (now they just read Dkos I guess) and screaming “Single Payer or I’m not voting”. So unfortunately, there is a far left wing that is every bit as dumb and crazy as the far right wing.
dmsilev
@schrodinger’s cat:
June 7th is three weeks from tomorrow.
I predict (hope…) that Clinton will pass the majority threshold on the 7th and that Sanders will keep his campaign going another week, until the last primary in DC. And then drop out and endorse Clunton.
rikyrah
@L Boom:
very sad about this. Sounded like a place that gave folks who would have had a hard time at a ‘traditional’ school, that opportunity for higher ed.
Mike J
I have actually stood right next to a Bernie supporter while we were talking to a super delegate and one of his reasons the super should switch his vote was, “Bernie needs you.” And when I laughed he was completely oblivious as to why that was a stupid reason.
MattF
@shomi: Demonstrating that the problem isn’t actually political.
Mike J
Gin & Tonic
@schrodinger’s cat: I see (and appreciate) what you did there.
Percysowner
@dmsilev:
It would be nice, but I’m getting the feeling that Bernie really truly believes he should get the nomination no matter who has the most pledge delegates or votes. I expect him to actually try to convince the super delegates that he is their best hope to win the Presidency. He’s talked himself into it, with Jane’s help and I have the feeling that he’s not going to be talked out of it easily.
Being female and cynical I can’t help but wonder if Bernie would be so set on being the savior of the people if he were running against, say Joe Biden or any other male with positions that are close to Hillary’s.
glory b
@shomi: Hopefully not as numerous.
AliceBlue
@<a href="#comment-5803415
I keep reading that DWS "greased the skids" for Hilllary but no one ever explains the "greasing".
Bob In Portland
We’ve been putting up a Sanders organizer here in Portland for the lead up to the primary tomorrow.
If Cole is tired of Sanders people fighting for their delegates, it will be a long summer for him. I suggest he not use all his bile up this early.
rikyrah
@Percysowner:
I’ll answer it for you.
HELL MUTHAPHUCKIN’ NO…
he wouldn’t be doing it if Hillary were Joe Biden.
Bob In Portland
@AliceBlue: Really?
goblue72
You came in as a Republican dude. RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH! and all that shit. Last thing you should have been doing is making demands, considering how fucking wrong all your life you were.
Some of us have been activists on the left our entire adult lives and have been right since day one – labor rights, gay rights, women’s right, minority rights, free trade, income inequality, climate change, “the war on terror”, the “war on drugs”, etc., etc. Every big issue, we’ve been right, vilified each time, and then proven just how wrong conservative AND the centrist establishment has been.
We don’t give a shit if your recovering Republican ass gets the vapors because you just woke up to discover that the Democratic party includes an actual left wing – and that said left wing has a long history of protest and activism. If Clinton can’t take some fairly modest criticism from the left, then she’s a weak ass candidate and deserve to lose. Funny watching the Boomers with fond memories of ’68 and how much Daley sucked now whining about how today’s activist core won’t just shut up and take whatever hairball the Democratic establishment hacks up on the carpet.
Meanwhile, the talks out both sides of her mouth Candidate Clinton, whom the left has been lectured to that “Bill isn’t running, she’s her own person, blah blah blah” just announced – Yes, Virginia, Bill Clinton is part of the package and he’s going to be in charge of the economy.
I look forward to another era of financial “deregulation”, an equity bubble and bullshit “free trade” agreements.
Miss Bianca
@L Boom: Wow…so, is this really the end of Burlington College? *That* ought to be hung like a millstone around both Sanders’ necks. I can’t believe it hasn’t been yet. But maybe because that’s an *actual* scandal, unlike the BS ones that have been hung on the Clintons all these years.
Bitter? Un peu, yeah…
Cat48
The person with the most pledged delegates wins. Bernie refuses to accept this. His entire campaign are using polls, etc that do not matter.
schrodinger's cat
@Gin & Tonic: I was hoping someone get it! BTW I have been watching the You Tube channel for WW I that you suggested. So far I am enjoying it. I like that he covers the eastern front too.
L Boom
@rikyrah: Yeah, that’s the real sad part. It was a great place for too-earnest, social-justicey misfits to get a good education in a place that was always willing to give them space to work things out. It sounds like my wife is going to be holding a wake for some of her former students this week.
And here it is in Seven Days. The big building in the picture sits on 4 or 5 acres of undeveloped land (with a beautiful view of the lake and the Adirondacks) next to a fairly large cemetery, so expect that to be developed soon, too.
Bob In Portland
@rikyrah: If Hillary were Joe Biden, what would Joe Biden be?
glory b
There’s also Jane on Fox or Fox Business (I forget which), nodding and sympathizing with the hosts about what could be taking the FBI so long to finish off Hillary with those emails.
Just like the “real liberals” Ralph Nader and Cornel West. Ever wonder why these paragons of liberalism spend so much time on Fox?
Gin & Tonic
@schrodinger’s cat: Took a semester of complex analysis, but that was a long time ago.
Brachiator
@schrodinger’s cat:
Well, we have a primary tomorrow. Kentucky and Oregon. So look for more Bernie madness, especially over Oregon.
And six primaries in June, including biggies in New Jersey and California. And in California, independents cannot vote in the Republican primary, but CAN vote in the Democratic primary, as long as they follow procedures correctly. Look for much anger and gnashing of teeth in California.
And we finish up with DC on June 14. I’m surprised that Bernie is not pre-complaining about all the black voters there.
@Percysowner:
I think yes. Bernie has found his moment after sitting in his purity puddle for over 25 years, and has visions of imminent “political revolution” dancing in his head.
Bostondreams
@goblue72:
Way to win hearts and minds. Calling Barbara Boxer a female canine while she is talking in Nevada is just moderate criticism after all.
schrodinger's cat
@Gin & Tonic: I thought it was more fun than real analysis. Conformal mapping was kinda fun.
OzarkHillbilly
@goblue72:
Could you be anymore holier than thou? And may I politely say that if you really think you’ve never been wrong about anything, you have just been wrong again?
AnotherBruce
@goblue72: Good to hear, he did a great job the first time.
Bostondreams
@L Boom:
And her with her nice six figure golden parachute. Think the university couid have used every little bit of that money?
Cacti
@Percysowner:
I can’t help but wonder also if Bernie wouldn’t have packed it in already if he was trailing by the same margin to Martin O’Malley or Joe Biden. There’s just something about “getting beat by a girl” that makes otherwise reasonable men go nuts.
I think Bernie’s drunk on the cheers of college kids and doesn’t want the rock star treatment to end. I think Jane’s gotten pretty fond of the high life, such as Bern chartering a 767 so she and the grandkids could nosh on lobster sliders on their way to a Vatican day trip.
Grumpy Code Monkey
The Berniacs at our county convention almost rioted because everyone who showed up was automatically a delegate to the state convention (i.e., fewer people showed up than there were delegate slots available). This denied the Berniacs the chance to stack the delegation in Bernie’s favor, regardless of the primary outcome, which resulted in some quality butthurt.
Then again, scheduling the convention during SXSW was also done specifically to screw over Bernie supporters (the fact that the calendar was set long before Bernie entered the race is immaterial).
Calling for unity was a slap in the face to Bernie supporters.
Done with these people.
scav
Was there a caucus I failed to attend that awarded gofuckallyall72 the supreme and unique overweening authority to speak for all of the left, besmirched or radiating an unltraviolet aura of numinous purity? I’d like to go throw a chair in its general direction if so.
gvg
I never hear Sanders tell his misbehaving supporters to stop. He never even comments on most of these incidents. Either he approves, or he is a lousy leader. Even Trump has had to answer a few questions about his supporters, though appallingly he hasn’t told them to stop but only egged them on…I guess that is actually a reason the media quit asking.
Both Obama and Hillary had to rein in some of their people. Even most Republicans as recently as 2012 had to sometimes.
I could look at it as proof the GOP leadership and media don’t actually take Sanders that seriously, by the fact they aren’t hounding him about these.
Sanders extreme supporters need to face the fact that he isn’t getting the nomination because not as many people voted for him. Your opinion about what they should do doesn’t count.
glory b
@goblue72: “Yes, Virginia, Bill Clinton is part of the package and he’s going to be in charge of the economy.”
I look forward to blacks folks doing well, because during his administration we did better than any other time in American history, and came closest to closing the income/asset gap.
But we voted for Hillary, so screw us, right?
April
Regarding Jane Sanders, does anyone know if there is a German term for “person who looks like she needs her hair pulled?” I have NEVER had this feeling toward anyone in my adult life (there was one girl in middle school that gave me these feels, and I made myself be friendly to her because I felt so ashamed, and we actually became friends. It may have helped my irrational feeling that she cut her hair really really short). I cannot watch Jane on TV, not really because of what she says, but because I get so embarrassed at my need to pull her dang hair! I am ashamed, but confessing here to see if there is such a German word or if anyone else gets the same feeling? You know, punch able face, pull able hair….
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
“Save us, Bernie Sanders, you’re our only hope!”
LOL
Nicole
@Percysowner:
Short answer, no.
I remember back in the mid 1990s my aunt, who worked for the Board of Elections, told me a joke about the Clintons that went like this- Bill and Hillary were taking a trip back to Hillary’s hometown and they stopped for gas. The man who came out to pump their gas said, “Hi, Hillary!” and Hillary said, “Hi, Bob!” and got out to talk warmly with him. After they drove off, Bill said, “Hillary, who was that?” and she said, “Oh, that was my high school boyfriend. He owns the gas station.” And Bill said, “Just think, honey, if you’d married him, you’d be the wife of the guy who owns the gas station.” And Hillary replied, “No, dear. If I’d married him, HE’D be President.”
And we laughed, ha ha, because we all knew that Hillary was smart as a whip and ambitious, and because, back in the 1990s, it was inconceivable, even to screaming liberals such as my aunt and I, that a woman would be able to run as a major party’s nominee for President. I’m sad my aunt didn’t live to see this election.
I have friends who complain she’s a Republican Lite, but I remember her being called a radical feminist for keeping her maiden name, and being criticized for saying in the UN that women’s rights are human rights (how undignified for a First Lady!) and even now, MSNBC asking men what role Hillary played in Bill’s marital affairs (none, would be the obvious answer, but apparently not to MSNBC), and I think you know, for so many of people, they would just prefer that the joke I heard from my aunt would still be the accepted status quo. And not all of these friends are men, which makes it even worse.
AliceBlue
@Bob In Portland:
Yes, really. Care to explain?
I’m not a DWS fan, but I’d really like to know the specific personal injustices done by her to Bernie.
rikyrah
In Trump’s rise, allies see harsher American approach to foreign policy
Whether or not he wins, leaders wary of a shift in American foreign policy.
By David E. Sanger and Jim Yardley New York Times MAY 5, 2016 — 9:33PM
WASHINGTON – Alarmed by Donald Trump’s grip on the Republican presidential nomination, world leaders are wrestling with the possibility that, even if he loses the general election, his ascent reflects a strain of American public opinion that could profoundly reshape the way the United States addresses security alliances and trade.
From Beijing, Tokyo and Seoul to the headquarters of NATO in Brussels and the vulnerable Baltic nations along Russia’s western border, officials and analysts said in interviews that they saw the success of Trump’s “America first” platform as a harbinger of pressure for allies to pay up or make trade concessions in return for military protection.
In many capitals, Trump’s policy proposals — his threat to pull out of NATO; his musings about removing the United States’ nuclear umbrella over Japan and South Korea; his pledge to slap huge trade tariffs on China — are regarded with a mix of alarm and confusion. Asked on Thursday if Beijing was concerned about the prospect of a Trump presidency, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman, Hong Lei, replied, “We hope the U.S. people from all walks of life would view bilateral relations from a reasonable and objective perspective.”
Stefano Stefanini, a former representative of Italy to NATO and former diplomatic adviser to the Italian president, put it this way: “There is no Donald Trump contingency plan.”
“The mistake that Europe might make is to think the Trump phenomenon might just fade away,” Stefanini said. “The sentiments that Donald Trump is expressing will certainly influence the next administration or the next Congress.”
gindy51
@shomi: And even if he wins the whole thing, they will abandon him in 2018 and 202 like those firebaggers did to Obama in 2010 and 2014 because he didn’t deliver everything they wanted (nor give Jane Hamsher the supposed credit she thought she deserved.)
Cacti
The Bernfeelers also vandalized local DNC headquarters.
Someone tell me again why we need to hand-hold these spoiled brats?
Prescott Cactus
Mr Rogers: “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.” (Will, not Fred)
gindy51
@rikyrah: And dog knows Jane can’t have any other woman beating her husband….
WJS
This has really been an election for low information voters. People who don’t know the actual party rules of the party they’re voting for–Democrats and Republicans–are the ones making a lot of noise this cycle. I don’t blame Republicans for not knowing how their party works–they operate with a barely perceptible amount of self-awareness anyway and vote their racist beliefs every time.
I do fault Democrats who don’t know how the primary/caucus system–you’re supposed to know this stuff! You can go online and get all the info you need! A minimal amount of due diligence and you can argue about this stuff on blogs.
Roger Moore
@glory b:
Because it’s necessary to destroy the Democratic party for true liberalism to prosper.
James E Powell
@Mike J:
It is a fact of political discourse that most process complaints are really outcome complaints. “If the system was set up correctly/fairly/morally as God/The Founders/SomeOtherFamousDeadPerson said it should be, my candidate would have prevailed. Therefore, the system is flawed.”
rikyrah
@Cacti:
Wonder if you want to….
I hold steady…
If he was losing to Joe Biden this way, he would have already quit.
glory b
@OzarkHillbilly: If she starts talking about her perfect children, we’ll know she’s really Ella.
zzyzx
CNN was on at the gym and I see that the reporters there are in full “Who will be picked for VP?” mode. The free press for primaries is about over as now the news has something new and shiny to chase.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@glory b: But, but, weren’t you listening? FU72 was on the right side of the fight for minority rights! That gives him (I’m assuming it’s male) the authority to tell you how to vote! I think this little exchange might provide a microcosm of the entire BS dynamic, and why it isn’t playing so well with voters who have actual lives on the line, as opposed to that glorious feeling of abstract righteousness that comes from standing up for rights nobody’s trying to take away from you personally.
Percysowner
@Miss Bianca:
The only person who could do it now is Hillary, and she’s smart enough to not “alienate” any more Bernie voters than she has to. She’s played softball pretty much this whole campaign. It’s the big reason why polls say Bernie beats Trump, no one has gone after him at all, let alone hard.
AndoChronic
Like Clinton supporters are much better? They’re some of the whiniest and meanest out there. I’m hoping for splits on both sides of the aisle and the creation of a solid third party. It’s well overdue for this country.
Cacti
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Did you know that Bernie marched with MLK? ;-)
Bob In Portland
@AliceBlue: You’re slightly changing the question, but using the DNC as a money-laundry for starters. But the fact that at this late date you are demanding proof of DWS’s use of the DNC for Hilz suggests the problem is that you don’t want to know. So don’t know.
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
The huge influx of refugees into Europe and world wide income inequality is causing a shift in foreign policy and domestic policy in many European nations, a more harsh approach.
Maybe some people thought that the United States would be immune to this kind of thing. Unfortunately, this is an unrealistic fantasy.
amk
you could have just said fuck white entitlement.
Davebo
So you rightly went about influencing the convention rules by gathering petition signatures of delegates. Bravo Angie! That’s the way it’s done.
Then, when your fellow supporters go apeshit and prevent you from being able to present the fruits of your legitimate work, you blame the party. Is that the Democratic party? Or the party of idiots flocking to the front of the room to hurl insults?
dmsilev
@April:
Backpfeifengesicht, translated as “a face in need of a slap” or “a face which cries out for a fist in it”. See also: Cruz, Ted.
NonyNony
@rikyrah:
If he were up against Joe Biden he’d be losing by more, because he wouldn’t have the sexist a*holes who are only backing Sanders because they hate the idea of a woman winning the nomination.
Is it a majority of Sanders supporters? No. But I suspect it is enough to make the difference and make it look like some of those people are backing “revolution” when what they’re really backing is a continuation of the male status quo.
(To be fair, Clinton in ’08 benefited from white people voting to keep a black man off the ticket. It’s a hard slog for any candidate that is outside the white male “standard”.)
TriassicSands
@kindness:
That may not be a fair comparison. Teabaggers are stupid and crazy. Bernie fans are mostly young, inexperienced, impatient, and most will grow out of it with time.
I was an early Sanders supporter, but I’ve become disgusted with him (good politics, wrong person), and I think he should get out now and help Clinton as much as possible. That said, it doesn’t make Clinton any more attractive as a candidate. I don’t blame Sanders’ supporters for not wanting Clinton. I’ll support her, work for her, and vote for her, but I wish to hell the Democratic Party were nominating someone else. (I don’t blame good people for not wanting to run, and we can’t afford to lose even one Democratic senator, so there aren’t a lot of choices.)
Cacti
It was extra progressive of the BernieBros to shout b**ch at Barbara Boxer.
Yep, evil Barbara Boxer, scourge of the working class left (eyeroll).
Elie
What a mess! And how sadly predictable given certain facts: Hillary did not attack and the press left him alone — leaving a pretty unscathed candidate with narcissistic issues and a pretty good message for the times. Add a little ratfuckiing by the Republicans or Paulistas, and you have what you have.
This will end up ok, but its gonna be messy. As I said in previous comments, he will be lucky to survive this with his reputation intact. Its up to Bernie — I don’t know if he has anyone around him who can counsel him — obviously not his manager….
Mike J
@Brachiator:
Benchmark politics predicts Bernie by 2 in OR. Nate Silver said he needed to win by 57% if he won WV by 52%. That didn’t happen.
gene108
@rikyrah:
Other than legalizing pot, the Republicans are pretty well aligned with so-called Libertarians on most issues.
The same can’t be said about Democrats and very liberal people in this country.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Davebo:
I knew nothing good would ever come from the participation trophy/extra test time/helicopter parenting/self esteem movement, since the attitude of a lot of Sanders supporters seem to be that nothing could ever possibly be their fault. This “revolution” of spoiled brat stamping of feet privileged entitlement-or-bust coupled with the conspiracy theories and the casting of the political players like it’s a video game of heroes and villains is the real threat to democracy.
Sasha
Nice to see that the new tag is getting a workout.
Bob In Portland
@Cacti:
Cacti, you haven’t held any Sanders supporter’s hands. You’ve been quite the asshole. If the chair person changing the rules after the fact to assign delegates doesn’t upset you but the protest against it does, then that’s just the Cacti we all know and love. If money laundering doesn’t move your needle, that’s all that needs to be said. Wallow in the Clinton corruption and call others dirty.
OzarkHillbilly
@Bob In Portland:
And your reply suggests that you don’t have any proof that DWS greased any skids anywhere but instead act contemptuously while never backing up the accusation but allowing it to stand unsubstantiated.
Nice trick.
sunny raines
@kindness: you got that right: Bernie fanborgs all victim-hood and hatred at their core. Not a dimes worth of difference in outlook, only particulars. Unfortunately, Bernie himself feeds the monster.
zzyzx
@Elie: that’s the real reason I want him out. I have a lot of friends who love him but they’ve never seen him attacked. Trump is getting bored and is throwing out the rape opp research just for fun. I don’t want to see what happens when Sanders is in the middle of real attacks.
MomSense
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I’m really glad I went the “meanest mom in the whole world” route with my kids.
L Boom
@Miss Bianca: Yeah, and honestly, I don’t think there was anything corrupt about it. I can only imagine it as some kind of stupid “Hold my beer while I crank this fundraising up to 11.” move by Jane.
amk
Will the bs bots at least score a tbogg unit today?
AliceBlue
@Bob In Portland:
Suits me, cupcake.
starscream
What is their endgame? Is “the platform” binding in any way at all? Or do they actually think the superdelegates that St Bernard has made a literal career out of badmouthing will suddenly overturn the popular vote to nominate him?
Villago Delenda Est
John, these people want patience, and they want it NOW!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MomSense:
Me too – whining was never ever ever allowed. Never. And everyone had responsibilities, and as soon as they could work, they had to do something to help. Makes me crazy to see kids who can’t do anything, and wait for things to fall out of the sky into their outstretched hands. Sanders stirred up this shit, and he’d better start taking responsibility for directing it in a more positive manner, but as I’ve said in the past, I have zero faith in him to be a team player and do the right thing.
Bob In Portland
Conster:
Do you yell at Sanders supporters to get off your lawn too?
zzyzx
@starscream: the platform things cracks me up. No it’s not binding and no one ever reads it. But people care deeply about it. I was a 2nd level delegate for Obama in WA in 2008, and we argued back and forth for 4 hours about the party platform for a district in King County, a platform that I can definitely assure you makes no difference anywhere.
Cacti
@sunny raines:
The fruits of a lifetime of participation trophies.
D58826
On how Bernie can do a Nader 2000 on Hillary in 2016, whither he intends to or not
politico.com/magazi…..000-213893
Bob In Portland
@starscream: Have you seen who the super delegates are? Lobbyists for Pfizer.
Aimai
@rikyrah: oh come the fuck on! At this rate people will be accusing DWS of the lindbergh kidnapping and the dissapearsnce of judge crater. How is the DNC responsible for Bernie sanders?
Bob In Portland
@Cacti: God, you sound old and crotchety.
gwangung
@Bob In Portland: You’re passing off a lie.
And THAT’S why some people hold some Sanders supporters in contempt. They lie, they cheat, they steal and they prevent others from participating, all while they claim purity and goodness.
You’re a loudmouth asshole, with unexamined privilege and racist tendencies. We see you. We know you.
glory b
@AndoChronic: Not likely that there would be a perfect split, and our system remains winner take all. No parliamentary proportional representation here.
I want anyone who wants a third party to first go into detail about what they would lose if the Repubs in their present iteration would win.
I live in a community that still hasn’t recovered from the last “revolution.” We’d probably wind up looking like Dresden after WWII.
Bob In Portland
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, keep whistling past the graveyard. And squeeze your eyes a little tighter.
Villago Delenda Est
@Bob In Portland: The projection…it’s blinding me!
Cacti
@gwangung:
BIP will be a Trump voter in November.
He’s Putin’s choice for POTUS.
D58826
@singfoom: Staying home might not wreak the two party system but it could wreak Hillary in November..Repeat after me – Ralph Nader in Fla in the year 2000.
singfoom
Can anyone explain the whole “Destroy the two party system” thing to me again. I’m still trying to grasp how not voting for either the Democratic party or the Republican party this electoral cycle accomplishes anything towards “destroying the two party system”.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections
Every time we have an election roughly half of the people stay home and yet the two parties continue to exist. So can someone help me understand the idea that a percentage point or two more staying home changes what?
@D58826: Yes, lower turnout on the Democratic side could certainly be a problem for Hillary come November.
But I’m just trying to understand the logic behind the #BernieOrBust people’s “destroy the two party system” “logic”.
Trollhattan
@gwangung:
What you said. Also, too, HODOR!
glory b
@Bob In Portland: I’ve heard a couple experts comment on this. Each one said it’s unusual, but not a violation.
I also note that I’ve never heard an attorney from Bernie’s organization say this. I’ve only seen/heard two Bernie organization people interviewed, forgot what one was, the other was his IT guy, no one with an esq. behind the name.
OzarkHillbilly
@Bob In Portland: Oh dog you are ever so full of sh!t. You got nothing, zero, nada, zilch. I call you on it and you come back with…. Nothing. You are just another Trumpian blowhard.
Roger Moore
@starscream:
I think the thing about Superdelegates is the bargaining stage of grief. They’re looking for any way that Bernie can somehow come out with the victory, even if it’s hopelessly unrealistic. The depression stage is when they threaten to stay home because their favored candidate didn’t win. I just hope they get to acceptance before November.
Mike J
@Cacti:
i.imgur.com/x58JHTG.png
Bob In Portland
@gwangung: So you hold me in contempt because I said that Cacti doesn’t hold Sanders supporters hands? Good. That shows the value of your contempt.
You all hate Sanders because he won’t quit. Too bad.
Your candidate is the second-most disliked and distrusted person ever to run for President. And you get angry at people who dislike and distrust her? That sounds like your problem. Perhaps you should try to figure out why over half the country doesn’t like and trust your candidate. Or not. Your choice. You may want to pick up Thomas Frank’s latest book, though.
SenyorDave
@srv: Nader jumped the shark at this moment:
salon.com/2008/11/05/nader_9/
He can take his toys and GTF out.
aimai
@TriassicSands: For me it has definitely made Hillary Clinton a more attractive CAndidate. I align my views with Bernie 99 percent of the time, and with Hillary only 98 percent of the time according to some stupid online test I took. But when I look at the person and what I think their talents and personality allow them to accomplish I am 100 percent certain that Hillary Clinton will get things done while in office. And that is all I care about at this point. I don’t wonder about some other fantasy candidate. I’m proud of her for fighting so hard to be President and for working so hard and so long as a public servant. To me that kind of dogged puersuit of public service, in the face of horrendous personal attacks, is pretty special. A new face (with the exception of Obama himself) is just not going to have been tried in the fire like she has. And I don’t think we can afford someone who is just finding out how things work at this point in the top slot. Its a big job. Enormous. And I look forward to having someone who will hit the ground running.
mike in dc
President Trump will deport, or attempt to deport 3% of the US population in the course of a couple years. He has also pledged to ignore the immigration courts in the process. On the Black Lives Matter movement, Trump has come out as strongly pro-cop. His anti-Muslim policy proposals are also well-documented.
Non-whites are roughly 50% of the Democratic/progressive/left-wing/liberal coalition. Why are BernieorBusters so eager to fuck them over via spite-voting/non-voting? I ask this as someone who voted for Sanders in the MD primary but will without hesitation vote for Clinton and straight ticket Democratic in November. This isn’t “fear-mongering”. It isn’t fear-mongering to note what is really at stake. I also ask this knowing that I am incredibly unlikely to get a straight answer.
AnotherBruce
@Bob In Portland: In other words, you have nothing. Go fuck off.
glory b
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I disagreed with some of the Steelers players who made their kids return participation trophies the got in school/ little league activities. Now, I may have to rethink my position….
rikyrah
@singfoom:
Perpetuated by those comfortable enough to live with the results of ‘staying at home.’
I have no such luxury.
Just as I was a child when I stopped believing in ponies and unicorns.
We have a two party system.
You could wish, or dream, or hope that we had a multi-party system.
But, we don’t.
And, if you want to support a third party…then get out there and do the work to put said third party on the ballot and to grow it.
But, the lazy ass bullshyt of ‘ I’m not going to vote for either of the two parties’ makes me nuts.
I’ll ask your selfish azz again:
THE SUPREME COURT.
Do you not have enough concern for your fellow citizens to make sure that they are not impacted Negatively by the court’s possible decisions?
Yes, I know…you’re immune to any decisions that the Court brings down.
Millions of your fellow citizens, though, ARE NOT IMMUNE.
? Martin
@goblue72:
Being right doesn’t count for very much, I hate to tell you. Those things that you are claiming victory for weren’t done by you, they were done by candidates that you denounced – they were all done by the centrists, the incrementalists.
The problem with activists is that they’re more interested in winning the argument than in actually getting legislation passed.
Aqualad08
@Bob In Portland:
What are you going to do? Bleed on me?
AndoChronic
@glory b: I believe this to just be a natural evolution. The splits in both parties are nothing to minimize or dismiss. Sometimes nature isn’t kind.
Davebo
@rikyrah:
For the thousandth time. Libertarians are Republicans that are ashamed to admit it.
Redshift
@Splitting Image:
I don’t think “anyone but Clinton” was a very big piece of Obama’s coalition in 2008.
? Martin
@zzyzx:
Activists want to win the argument, not get things done.
hamletta
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Actually, it’s not the youngsters pulling this shit, it’s the 50-and-up crowd, according to reporters who were there, especially Dana Houle.
Trollhattan
@Aqualad08:
Ten Quatloos for “Grail” reference. Twenty if BiP bleeds out.
Bill
I haven’t read every entry in this thread because I can’t take another round of sniping between the Bernie and Hillary supporters here.
Here’s my two cents for what it’s worth. I’ve been a Bernie supporter. I gave him money and I voted for him in my state’s primary. I’ve waited all my adult life to vote for a viable socialist for president. I was happy to have the chance. But I knew from the outset that Bernie’s campaign had a very low chance of success. It turns out that low chance was not for the reasons I thought (I assumed “socialist” would be a non-starter even with Democrats), but I was right. He has no realistic path to the nomination.
On the night Trump won Indiana, and basically sewed up the nomination, I donated money to Hillary. She’s far from my ideal candidate, but she’s incredibly smart, extremely qualified and more progressive than any other candidate with a real chance to win the presidency. It’s time for everyone center left to get behind Secretary Clinton. Most of the Bernie supporters I know feel exactly the same way. And I think – for the most part – that’s how it will play out.
That said there are a vocal few who are insisting on fighting this primary fight to the bitter end. Unfortunately Senator Sanders appears to be one of them. It’s time for him to get realistic, and help his fellow lefties consolidate support and win. Not just the presidency but the Senate as well. I’m not yet to the point where I regret my support for Bernie, because I think his campaign did some very good things, but if he damages the Democrats’ chances of winning I am going to lose my shit.
My only request is that you not paint all Bernie supporters with the same broad brush. Because I’m pretty sure most of us agree that it’s time to unite behind Hillary.
Aqualad08
@Bob In Portland:
No, I don’t hate Sanders, just like I don’t “hate” roadkill. I do, however, hate the flies roadkill attracts….
mike in dc
@? Martin:
To be fair, everyone wants to win the argument. It’s about being able to get past it and compromise to get things done. One distinction is that people on the political ends/extremes(far left, far right) are rarely in a position to actually have the responsibilities of governance, whereas centrist coalitions tend to frequently find themselves in that position. So the experience of political compromise as a necessary evil for governance is a bit alien to leftists and rightists, because they are so rarely in that position.
Cacti
@hamletta:
So, the emotionally arrested former campus radicals then?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@? Martin:
I think we need to save this, frame it, and put it right in the header of this website, DKos, and just about everywhere else.
glory b
@singfoom: Oh, they’ll destroy the two party system alright. There will be one party but it won’t be ours.
If Trump wins and gets three or four or five Supreme Court nominations, it will be the end of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, EEOC, housing and employment anti-discrimination laws, restricted voting to keep them in power, etc.
The irony of this is that Bernie Sanders won’t see liberalism gain as much as a foothold again in his lifetime.
hamletta
@Cacti:
Basically, yeah.
OzarkHillbilly
It has finally stopped raining. I am going to go accomplish something. You kiddies play nice while I’m gone.
Monala
@SenyorDave: Ralph Nader is also hanging out with “English only” advocate and anti-semite Ron Unz these days: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz
Davebo
@mike in dc:
The thing is, he can’t just ignore the immigration courts. Now he can round up a million illegal aliens and if he can convince them to waive their right to a hearing it’s certainly doable. But that’s not going to happen. As it stands in many parts of the country an undocumented alien picked up today will get a hearing sometime in 2020 or later. And as an added bonus, they’ll be legally allowed to work while they wait for it. Unless of course Donald has a plan for detaining 1 million immigrants for 4 years.
At the current rate for detaining respondents that would run over $291 billion dollars.
Bob In Portland
@AnotherBruce: Yes, nothing. There’s nothing there. Your princess is perfect. Yes, the over half the country that dislikes and distrusts H. Clinton stands in a pool of nothing disliking her.
At this late date if you are unaware of how the DNC has functioned under DWS (if that’s what you’re arguing about) far be it from me to explain anything to you, Bruce. Everything is just rosy in the ranks of Democrats. Just a few kids standing on the lawn waiting for something to fall from the sky.
Actually, observing the villagers here is informative of the huge gap between the mindset of Hillary supporters and reality. You go ahead, Bruce. Nothing’s wrong, just some disgruntled kids. Oh jeez, you guys sound like Republicans.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@hamletta: Thanks for the pointer. I found this there.
His fingers really are short, aren’t they?
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who recognizes that more than a little PS trickery may be going on there.)
Richard Mayhew
But he can raise the Green Lantern and Bully Pulpit the Constitution and due process away….
sherparick
Democratic Party is a coalition of factions and interest groups In this, there is some continuity even going back to when the Democratic Party was the home for the Neo-Confederates and defending the white working man from competition with non-white workers (unfortunately almost all the racist immigration bills from Chinese Exclusion through Immigration Act of 1924 had significant Democratic and labor support). Today, the factions range from former Eisenhower and Rockerfeller Republicans to the progressive white militants who at the loudest in supporting Bernie and carrying out the “class conflict.” (And for whom Blacks, Hispanics, LBGT, and women and their interests and rights under militant Republican attack don’t seem to matter.) Finally, as Jeremy Scahill pointed out, Bernie’s foreign policy, for what views there are, are not significantly better than Hilary’s which is my biggest problem with Hilary.
starscream
@Roger Moore: I just read a DailyKos thread…holy shit. They are nowhere near bargaining yet. Firmly in denial.
rikyrah
@glory b:
this
this
1000x this.
Miss Bianca
@hamletta: that’s been my experience. The most fervent Berners – as in “you should know better than to talk this kind of shite” Berners I know – are are all 60+! I don’t know whether it’s because they just had *that much fun* plotting to blow up the ROTC buildings back in the day or what, but the worst of them are just beyond the reach of reason. And these are folks I would have counted as solid Democrats. I mean, I get becoming impatient, but geez…one of these guys is someone who credits Obamacare with literally saving his life – he had cancer, now in remission, thank God – and he’s all like, “well, the Democratic establishment is corrupt” and I’m all like, “Without that ‘corrupt Democratic establishment’ you’d be DEAD now!”
Punchy
Who’s this Bernice Anders lady y’all keep referring to?
Percysowner
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: ARRGH! NO! NO! NO!
Now that that’s out of my system. I’m 63 and guess what every generational cohort thinks that the ones following them are too pampered, too protected leading to their moral decline. The Baby Boomers were ruined because media started catering to them too much so they “got a swelled head”. Millennials and GenXers were damaged because of “helicopter parents” and “participation trophies”. My daughter got participation trophies for soccer and she was completely aware that her team SUCKED and had no illusions that just showing up was good enough. The parents of these kids usually worked 8 hours a day, while taking care of the home and raising the kids. Most of them don’t have TIME to be “helicopter parents”. The ones who do, they have money, and if you think parents with money never before intervened to make their kids life easier, well you are wrong.
All of these “trends” get reported, not because they are widespread or because they are ruining people, but because they are different from how we were raised. And we think that must be bad.
The quote attributed to Socrates (he probably didn’t say it, but it has been around for a long, long time.
Bernie supporters and young people aren’t behaving this way because they were raised wrong, but because they are young and there is a time of life where people all think they see the world more clearly and then they get pushy about wanting to make the world “right”. This has, BTW, led to Civil Rights Protests, Union Organization, pushing to support women’s rights and LGBT rights. Yeah they are being bratty and at times I want them to go away. But that’s also how the world changes. Frankly the head of all this if Bernie Sanders, who wasn’t raised in a world that gave “participation trophies” or had “helicopter parents”. What’s his excuse?
Boy am I going to get slammed!
glory b
@Bob In Portland: I think it was George Lopez who said that one think black and Hispanic people agree on is that white people put up with too much shit from/don’t know how to raise kids.
Gin & Tonic
@Monala: When Noam Chomsky shows himself to be more politically pragmatic than Ralph Nader, you know ol’ Ralphie has well and truly jumped the shark.
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
so still nothing. I guess there’s no Russian propaganda on DWS, so you’ve got nothing to copy/paste.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
straight reporter Chris Lansing on MSNBC says there’s some truth in what Trump said about Sanders being treated unfairly, because the Sanders campaign feels they’ve been treated unfairly
ETA:… and we’re still on “she can’t afford to offend them”
Mike J
@Percysowner:
mike in dc
@Davebo:
I think you are assuming that the status quo on legal processes for undocumented workers will remain the same. I tend to doubt it would under a Trump administration. Latinos certainly aren’t making that assumption.
Bob In Portland
@Aqualad08: Yes, let’s reach out. The primaries are over, let’s welcome back all those flies to vote for Clinton. Or don’t you even want the flies to vote for Clinton?
You see, you’ve got to make up your mind. Are you going to kiss and make up with the majority of Americans who distrust your candidate or are you going to continue to hold them in disdain? Your choice. The only way that the Democrats could blow this election is by nominating someone so distrusted, disliked that she would make Trump viable. So fuck the Sanders supporters. You don’t need them. Drive them out of the party.
You ever wonder why forty percent of the electorate are independents? Yeah, fuck all them too.
glory b
@srv: Good, I know a lot of remorseful Nader voters, I’m glad it will remind them how well that turned out.
Nader has the blood of thousands of American troops and unknown numbers of Iraqis on his hands.
I wonder if Bernie would be as okay with that as Nader seems to be.
Chris
@hamletta:
Well, we could acknowledge that, but then we wouldn’t get to have those delightful little “fucking kids get off my lawn/kids those days!” moments. And then where would we be?
columbusqueen
@Cacti: Bingo! Nothin’ like reliving one’s salad days in the worst way possible.
mike in dc
95% of the butthurt will pass by the time August 1st rolls around. I expect Bernie to make a full-throated endorsement of Hillary at the convention. She may also pick a progressive as veep, which would further salve any wounds.
Lauren
What riot did you see, John Cole? There are many hours of videos posted from within the venue. I watched a lot of them and did not see a single fight, shove, nothing. Can you link to evidence of a riot? There was no riot.
WarMunchkin
@Bob In Portland: Other way around. Sanders is aggressively teaching his supporters to hate the Democratic Party. And I realize now that I don’t care, because they will be conservative Republicans later in their lives. The third party effect is 2%, not 27%.
So, as a flaming liberal, if you don’t want to vote for Hillary, I actively encourage you to go vote third party. I hereby endorse you going third party; I don’t think Hillary needs your vote. We’ll win without the confluence of Green Party and Ron Paul libertarians who have come to define the Sanders dead-enders and continue advocating for the cause without the jerks.
And the great thing about the third party people is that they’ve proven to be incredibly fickle voters. Once Jill Stein or Gary Johnson says or does something they don’t like, they’ll run away from them, too. A durable political party needs consistent voters.
columbusqueen
@Bill: Thank you.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Percysowner:
My children are the Bernie supporter cohort, and of all of their friends, they’re the only ones who don’t support Bernie – the biggest Bernfeelers they know went to fancy colleges on their parents dime, always had nice cars given to them and still don’t really have the kind of jobs that support themselves. My youngest can’t stand the kind of privileged dismissiveness they exhibit when talking about not voting. It’s repellant to her, and she sees it all around her. Whether they’ll change their mind in the full glare of the awfulness of President Trump remains to be seen, but the attitude is there, and it’s nothing but entitlement coming from a very privileged special snowflake place.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@starscream: The relatively sane ones are probably still on Kos. The others, well… reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Chyron HR
@Bob In Portland:
“We’re never voting for that filthy sex worker Clinton!”
“Okay.”
“STOP DRIVING US OUT OF THE PARTY!”
Bob In Portland
@lethargytartare: Yes, there is nothing. Happy now? There is no reason why a majority of Americans dislike or distrust Clinton.
And everyone has showered DWS with praise about how even-handed she’s been overseeing this primary season.
You know, if you ignore the opposition they’ll all go away.
D58826
@? Martin: There was another long whine on Salon about how Bernie is the true progressive and that Obama is a major disappointment because he governed as a centrist thus failing to achieve progressive goals. Not sure how far up their buts these salon folks and some of the Bernie Bro dead enders have their heads. If saving the economy, saving the domestic auto industry, 73 months of economic growth, Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, repealing DADT and DOMA don’t fit the definition of progressive then I need a new dictionary.
Math is usually hard but this one is easy. Most voters are in the center or a bit to the left or right. Most democratic congress critters are centrists. I’m sure Obama would have signed a single payer medical care plan if it has passed but it didn’t have the votes. Even Bernie finally came to accept that. It barely had the votes with the centrists. If you want a progressive revolution elect 218 progressives to the House and 60 to the Senate after electing Bernie to the WH. Oh and make sure you have 5 progressives on SCOTUS so it can’t overturn all that progressive legislation . Then you can have your revolution.
Bob In Portland
@Chyron HR: No, right now I’d encourage you to drive Sanders supporters out of the party. Please do so. Just save some bile for the convention, because I expect it to be a doozy.
glory b
@AndoChronic: And what cruelties will nature visit on you and yours during those times? Want a list of what will probably happen to me and mine?
Smug &^%&*^%$*(&$*!!!
Bob In Portland
@D58826: I’m glad that Wall Street is doing well. I’m glad that American auto manufacturers have been saved so they can offshore their assembly lines overseas.
But if most of the country isn’t sharing the prosperity then your cheerleading won’t help.
Gelfling 545
@Cacti: indeed, I believe this may alter the party leadership’s ideas about how accommodating to be to an independent candidate in future who wants to run under the party’s aegis. The party has been extremely accommodating to Sanders only to be reviled for not changing their existing structure in midstream to benefit him.
Davis X. Machina
@glory b:
The dialectic is a harsh mistress.
JMG
Politico will be running “Hillary’s in big trouble now” stories until Election Day. Clinton hasn’t gone out of her way to do anything but let the Sanders campaign play out, except of course for beating it. If the semi-pro trolls who’ve attached themselves to Bernie are still stirring the pot here and elsewhere in October, then perhaps I’ll worry. Or maybe I’ll figure they use wasting time on the Internet to make up for their lack of numbers.
rikyrah
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
uh huh
uh huh
Bob In Portland
@goblue72: Yes.
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
yep, nothing.
now, get your balloons and make me a bicycle.
Davebo
@Lauren: I believe he described it as a “near riot”.
There can be no doubt that delegates left their seats and stormed the front of the room shouting. Perhaps not soccer hooligan levels but still not exactly something you expect in this situation.
Remember, this wasn’t a rally of the public but delegates to the convention.
AnotherBruce
@Bob In Portland: Look creep, you were asked a simple question. Instead of answering it you turned on the person who asked it. You didn’t provide any evidence, you muttered some vague bullshit. You are a boor and a bore at the same time. And don’t throw that crap about Sanders supporters around. This comment and the previous comment was aimed at you only. If you want courtesy, maybe you should display it. So continue to fuck off.
John Cole
@goblue72:
This is the kind of comment that flummoxes me. If anything, I’m personally to the left of most of the mainstream Democratic party on most issues. I’m far more extreme on issues of privacy, surveillance, drone usage, than most people here on this blog. I think Snowden is an American hero (and have a post coming up about him later). I was for single payer during the ACA debates. My curse, however, is that I can count to 60 and I am self aware enough to realize that not everyone agrees with me and that I won’t always get my way.
My problem is with the process that the Berners think is the way to victory. This is a diverse party and a coalition. You want to change it, you work from within. You think there are problems with the way the candidates were selected this election cycle, you make note of them and fight to change them for the next election. You don’t try to blow things up because you didn’t get your way this time.
And you certainly don’t start riots and call other Democrats a bitch.
columbusqueen
@Bob In Portland: Have the balls to admit that Bernie, on balance, has run a weaker campaign than Clinton. Better yet, recognize that Bernie & many of his supporters (including you, big guy) are less than ideal vessels for their beliefs and are only managing to alienate others who might agree with them if they could stop making straw man arguments.
If you can’t do this, fuck off.
Chyron HR
@Davebo:
Nope, nope, didn’t happen. They were all perfectly well behaved and also the fight was out in the parking lot and besides Clinton supporters were even more violent.
Shawn in ShowMe
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Activists push centrists to get things done.
Lauren
@Davebo: So, tone policing?
Barbara
@goblue72: I am pretty sure John Cole has been a member of the Democratic Party for longer than Bernie Sanders.
Run, Lillian!
@Cacti:
If you look at the videos taken at the NV convention, the worst Sanders actors are all middle aged white men, NOT millennials. I am tired of seeing comments maligning the youth on these threads. I am a Hillary voter at the very tail end of Gen X, and plenty of my friends are Bernfeelers, none of whom are BoBs. They will vote Hill in November, some enthusiastically! Polls show that millennials skew left and I want them to feel welcome, engaged, and at home in our party to ensure our party gets even stronger and more liberal in the coming decades.
The worst Bernie Bros skew much older, just check out the demos on DKos or the videos of NV.
Sasha
To all Bernie-or-Busters,
If Sen. Sanders needed to change his party affiliation to Democrat to participate in the Democratic primary, so do you.
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
columbusqueen
@John Cole: BIG THUMBS UP!
glory b
@Miss Bianca: I actually now do recall someone saying that middle aged Bernie supporters are the old guys who still want to buy their clothes from the juniors/ young men’s departments, just because they can fit.
Loviatar
@Barbara:
niiiiiiiiiiiiice
Ella in New Mexico
@April:
A. I do not understand being so obsessed with fights between people who don’t represent 99.9% of Democratic voters that you actually spend your day wringing your hands over it and demanding apologies and reliving them like they were some traumatic event and you’re a PTSD victim.
Here’s a little secret I’ll pass along to everyone and their Ground Hogs Day post-by-post verbatum repeat Clinton Camp vs. Bernie Camp pissing wars over minutae:
None of us in real walky talky land gives a fuck about any of this. There are far bigger fish to fry. Get lives. Go volunteer at a Hospice and I think it will put the badly behaving Bernie Sanders supporters at a Nevada Democratic Convention into persective.
@schrodinger’s cat:
Are you really trying to stretch THIS thread out to 500+? Seems like such a waste of energy. ;-)
Bob In Portland
@rikyrah: I see the Hillary folks keep trying to denigrate Sanders supporters. Now they are all rich kids. Except when they’re white racists in West Virginia. Except when they’re women haters. Except when they chase Hillary out of East LA. Except when they’re undercover Trump supporters. Or something.
What is consistent is the need for King Cole and his subjects in Balloon Land to keep trying to define away Sanders supporters.
The current system is a raw deal for most people. I presume you’re all happy the way things are, or are willing to wait another twenty years for an incremental change. Well then, you do that. I’m sorry that the length of the primary season makes Cole a crankypants. Maybe more recipes and cat pictures. Let’s find some irrelevant DC pundit to laugh at. There must be something to occupy Cole and his subjects since the election is already over.
Brachiator
@gene108:
There was some libertarian poobah on a recent Bill Maher show complaining that the Republican mainstream had co-opted and exploited pure libertarians. He also sounded like he was angling for a revitalized independent libertarian party. Unfortunately, Trump supporters hate the libertarian open borders policy.
There are also the techno-libertarians, who align with old style libertarians over the economy and pot, but reject most alignment with Republicans over social issues.
LanceThruster
Madame Secretary is still gonna need the votes of these so-called ‘wankers.’
It ain’t over till the lady in the Chairman Mao pantsuit sings.
Trollhattan
@columbusqueen:
So, you’re meeting HODOR! for the first time, I deduce. :-)
Bill
@glory b:
What does this mean?
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well maybe way back when , when it looked like he was just one more fringe candidate the press ignored him. Just like they ignored Jim Gilmore, Jim Webb, Martin O’Malley, and for the most part Kaisch and Carly. Once Bernie’s campaign started to gain traction his coverage increased. True be told the only one who can’t complain about press coverage is Trump.
Now if they are upset that the press questions some of his p[positions well………….
Miss Bianca
@Gelfling 545:
This. I get so sick of *this*. This sense of entitlement to the nomination, after waltzing in and trying to grab it as a “Democrat-come-lately” – and then the temper tantrums, the bad acting, the denial, and the whines and threats coming from the most fervent fanbois/girls – when it’s seen to be NOT WORKING and that that’s ALL THE DEMOCRATS’ fault.
glory b
@Bob In Portland: We’d love to kiss and make up, but you can’t do that with the person who is still fighting.
Kisses and make ups come after the fight is OVER. so, if the fight is OVER, stop fighting.
ruemara
@AndoChronic: and I’d like to win a fat lottery jackpot. My chances improve if I buy a ticket. Yours seem to be stuck at negatives numbers.
Run, Lillian!
Sigh. As a long time lurker and first time commenter, I guess I should have expected to be stuck in moderation hell.
Bob In Portland
@Barbara:
Meaning what? Does seniority mean anything here?
The Democratic Party doesn’t represent the working class anymore. It will either change to represent them or lose another chunk of voters. In a year where you have a clown leading the Republicans if you guys are so upset and worried about Sanders actually running, well, doesn’t that say anything about the DNC and Clinton?
Brachiator
@Bob In Portland:
I have no problem for the most part with Sanders supporters.
I have no use for Sanders. I might even agree with you that the current system is a raw deal for most people. I don’t see that Sanders offers any real solution. Sanders is not bringing change, now or twenty years from now. He’s just a quirky little guy who sat in a purity puddle for 25 years and now sees his last great chance for achieving his hot little dreams.
He is as much a dead end as is Trump.
Bill
@Bob In Portland:
Actually I’d far prefer a landslide victory for socialist democrats in both the White House and Congress, giving us near instant change of the type I’d like. The problem is I can read election results and polls. So I understand incremental change is the only kind I’m getting.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Run, Lillian!:
It’s what happens to everyone’s first comment. Now you’re good to go, until you trip the mod filter when discussing Trump’s failed business enterprises that involve games of chance.
AliceBlue
@AnotherBruce:
I suppose it was silly of me to ask BIP a question and get anything resembling a coherent answer.
Live and learn.
The Thin Black Duke
@LanceThruster: If “President Trump” isn’t enough motivation to get the ‘wankers’ to vote in November, than fuck them.
Bob In Portland
@columbusqueen: I don’t have to admit anything. Yes, Clinton has used her political power and called in a lot of favors. A majority of Americans still dislike and distrust her. If that’s success, then hooray. Save some bile for Philadelphia, because I suspect that this might make Chicago look placid.
Cacti
@JMG:
That’s her real crime. She’s straight up beaten Bernie in every meaningful measure, and has barely laid a glove on him in the process of doing so. The crowd that believes they have a monopoly on being right can’t accept this as a legitimate outcome. There must have been some malfeasance somewhere that prevented their shining prince from winning an otherwise certain victory.
Miss Bianca
@Run, Lillian!: Most of the young Sanders supporters I’ve talked to seem reasonable and reachable to me compared to some of the older ones. As I’ve pointed out to others, the most fanatical Bernfeelers I know are all 60+. So, heard and received.
Villago Delenda Est
@Davebo: Drumpf will simply disregard due process and the law and go extrajudicial. It’s not like there isn’t precedent for this.
Uncle Cosmo
@Boob In Putinland: I take it you have yet to be run over by a bus. :(
Bob In Portland
@Cacti:
All that corporate money is legitimate? Okay. Then your legitimate Democratic Party doesn’t serve most people.
Bill
@Bob In Portland:
That’s part of winning so, yup, that’s “success.”
There’s another part of success you’re forgetting though. Winning more votes.
Villago Delenda Est
@Run, Lillian!: First time posters always get stuck in moderation hell; it’s part of the anti-spam process. Anne has given us a taste of how bad it can be. Please be patient!
Miss Bianca
@Uncle Cosmo: Bonjour, monsieur! Ca va bien?
D58826
@Percysowner: If Bernie really does feel the Bern, then it could get ugly
Reggie Mantle
@Bob In Portland:
That pretty much describes the Hill-Bullies. They’re “old-school” Democrats who just HATE all these scruffy young people on their pristine lawns. They’re the reason this party has no future.
HRC may win this election, but once she and the rest of her ilk age out, they’ll already have driven away the new blood.
Uncle Cosmo
@Gin & Tonic: IOW it left no residue…:p
Bob In Portland
@Uncle Cosmo: Do you realize how many front end alignments the buses of the world would have to get to run over all Bernie supporters?
glory b
@Bob In Portland: No, people dislike and distrust Clinton because the republicans have spent the last 30 years vilifying her.
And you still haven’t answered the DWS question.
Citizen Alan
@goblue72:
Your side calls her an EVIL MURDERER. I literally cannot imagine what people could say about Hillary Clinton that would be more monstrous than what BernieBots say about her in every single thread in which her name appears.
Cacti
@D58826:
Someone should tell him that at his age, the sensation is probably his prostate.
Facebones
@Bob In Portland: You’re slightly changing the question, but using the DNC as a money-laundry for starters. But the fact that at this late date you are demanding proof of DWS’s use of the DNC for Hilz suggests the problem is that you don’t want to know. So don’t know.
Reggie Mantle
@The Thin Black Duke:
“I’m not the other guy” is not a winning campaign theme. Ask a Hill-bully why anyone should vote for her without mentioning Trump and watch the smoke start coming out of their ears as their brains seize up.
columbusqueen
@Trollhattan: Nope, just wanted to get in Hodor’s face–& I see he’s still dancing around the real question. Clearly no balls at all!
Bob In Portland
@Reggie Mantle: One of the Balloon Juice villagers up the thread likened Sanders to roadkill, then said that he doesn’t hate Bernie, just the flies the roadkill attracts.
Read: Sanders supporters are flies on a corpse.
I think that if Hillary wants to bring all of us together the absolute best strategy is to equate people who want a government that represents their interests as flies on roadkill. Or maybe maggots. Yeah, that’ll bring them all in under the big tent.
Fair Economist
@Run, Lillian!:
We know that substantial fractions of those voting for Sanders are actually Republican rodent copulators tryiing to get a much weaker candidate nominated (40% in West Virginia, according to that exit poll). At that rate some of the Sanders volunteers/delegates are actually rodent copulators too. Mostly middle-aged white men being the troublemakers makes me EXTRA suspicious.
Shawn in ShowMe
@glory b:
When Bernie endorses Hillary at the convention, that’s the only “making up” that historians will care about. All the rest of this is kabuki theater.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Miss Bianca:
That’s not my experience. The handful of young Bernfeeling males I know who are friendly with my daughters – they’ve gone beyond reach. I heard a group of them recently at a gathering, and it sounded like they were talking about a reality from some other dimension. They seemed to have zero understanding of what happened from 2008-2012 and how a coalition works – and that they’ve located themselves at the center of the voting universe. They’re running a different script in their heads. I can’t imagine knowing how to even start reeling them back in, because “Obama was so long ago and just too Establishment and nothing to learn from him, old lady.”
Reggie Mantle
@Bob In Portland:
It’s Republican level cognitive dissonance: Sanders and his supporters have no right to any say or any voice in the Democratic Party because Hillary won and their votes mean nothing, and anyway, they can win without all those dirty hippie progressives…
BUT, if they stay home, write Bernie in, or vote for a third party, then “see how you like President Trump.”
Make up your minds. Do you care about progressive’s votes or not?
gwangung
@Reggie Mantle: I don’t think so. Not when there is so much unprovoked bad behavior by Sanders “supporters”. The months of targetting of women and POC who critique Sanders in just not excusable, nor is the denial of such behavior (so reminiscent of patriarchal denial of misogyny and racism) part of this.
schrodinger's cat
Are Bob in Fantasy Land, Gone Blue in the Face, and Ella in Never More for real or they all DougJ?
glory b
@Bill: Reliving their youth, no matter how poor the look.
Bob In Portland
@glory b: I suggest you go to the DownWithTyrrany! website. Almost every day they run another article mentioning DWS. Do you know that her candidate for Senator in Florida actually voted to set up the Benghazi committee to investigate? Granted, he was a Republican a few years ago… Maybe he’s getting money from the right bankers now.
But please, no one has any complaints about Schultz. That’s why you haven’t heard any complaints about her.
DCF
The Rise of Political Clickbait 11: Nevada Democratic Convention
This installment of The Rise of Political Clickbait is all about the 2016 Nevada Democratic Convention in which Roberta Lange and others were key figures in what appeared to be controversial decisions during voice voting on motions. The Nevada Democratic Convention in 2016 was between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, and the 16-hour day was documented by many people for the world to see.
youtube.com/watch?v=tVa4G32M7Bc
Sanders Is for Schmucks
When will young voters come to their senses?
By Tom Tomorrow
thenation.com/article/sanders-is-for-schmucks/
This Modern World
The President’s goal is ambitious – but it’s certainly not very pragmatic!
democraticunderground.com/10027835703
Miss Bianca
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Probably just goes to show I’m talking to more olds than youngs these days! Also, I live in the middle of deep-red Republican territory, so most of the people around me are probably going to be voting for Trump. There’s a sobering thought.
Bob In Portland
@schrodinger’s cat:
We’re just flies gathering around the roadkill. Don’t worry, we’ll vote for the queen in November because you guys are gonna bring the party together to fight Trump, right?
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Aqualad08
@Bob In Portland:
Um, I’m an independent. People are independents for a lot of reasons. Pretending they are a homogeneous block of voters just waiting to be swept off their feet is your stupid assumption, not mine.
Trump cannot win. I know what I have to do. I don’t need someone to tuck me into bed and tell me there’s no monsters in the world before I go to sleep. Grow up.
schrodinger's cat
I think queen should be capitalized. Best band evah!
glory b
@Bob In Portland: Isn’t that what political power is for, at least in part?
I do you a favor, you do one for me. That level of political power most people figured out by first grade.
Gin & Tonic
@Uncle Cosmo: Nice.
Captain C
@Davebo:
FTFY
Miss Bianca
@schrodinger’s cat: Hey, don’t lump Ella in with those others. For one thing, she’s sure as hell not pitching fits about how evil HRC and mainstream Democrats are.
germy
Can’t we all just get along?
[ducks]
Trollhattan
@columbusqueen:
Interesting how he’s pivoted from telling us only Vlad can save Ukraine from nazis by killing Ukrainians and stealing their territory, to telling us only Bernie can save the Democrat Party from Democrats.
Bob In Portland
@Aqualad08:
No disagreement. My point is that a big reason why people aren’t registering for the two major parties in historic numbers has to do with the major parties. I was referring to the shrinking sizes of the parties. Ipso facto, many people are not happy with the state of the two parties. You want to argue with me about that too?
Citizen Alan
@glory b:
Don’t forget the Environmental Protection Act and every other piece of environmental legislation that a Drumpf dominated SCOTUS will strike down. This election will decide once and for all whether America will take the lead in preserving our planet or the lead in destroying it.
Dog Dawg Damn
“I think it should have been done by the military in the first term—they still have a chance to do it,” he told the Journal.
That is Donald Trump’s longtime butler and close confidant on removing Obama from office and publicly executing him.
We have a literal fascist running for the GOP and the Democraric party is worrying about this stuff?
Truly frightened.
Bob In Portland
@Trollhattan: Stay ignorant. Really. You can do it. You can invent things in your head to support the Nazis. You go right ahead.
How about we send some stinger missiles to Dubai?
Barbara
@Bob In Portland: Ask goblue72. He implied yes. I made a logical response to his proposition.
glory b
@Reggie Mantle: No, there’s ALWAYS new blood. It’s the way of the world.
It might be incumbent on them to sit down and figure out why poor/lower income people and people of color and the otherwise most marginalized, regardless of age, who represent at least 50% of the party, didn’t buy their message.
When the black people in the south didn’t vote your way, don’t dismiss them as conservative, polling showed they’re just as liberal as the rest of us. “Waiting for them to die off” is offensive and makes me wonder what you are progressive for, if it isn’t to help your fellow man.
Cacti
Sadly, I think the campaign has also reached the point where Bernie believes his own bullshit. Such as his statement a few days ago that “we’re fighting for the soul of the Democratic Party”.
Thanks but no thanks, presumptive savior. I’m looking for a presidential candidate, not a crank with messianic delusions.
patroclus
I’m not seeing a real reason to get upset (yet again). Bernie’s supporters are still trying to win delegates and are not pleased when they don’t get them. Yawn. Hillary is a little over 100 delegates from crossing the threshold and is certain to do that soon (maybe even before California).
If Bernie had some sort of a seminal issue, it’d be different But he really doesn’t – Hillary is actually to his left on immigration, guns, women’s rights, gay rights and civil rights. The behavior of DWS is not what I would describe as a seminal issue. Whether state convention delegates actually registered as Democrats is not what I would describe as a seminal issue. The existence of superdelegates (i.e., Democratic elected officeholders) is not a seminal issue. Earning money for making speeches is not a seminal issue. They’re actually fairly close on most issues. Once the magic number is reached, it’s all over but the shouting. Most Bernie supporters realize this.
Miss Bianca
@Dog Dawg Damn: One of Bertolt Brecht’s sketches for a teaching play that he ended up abandoning – because the GDS wouldn’t have liked its being staged at all, at all – featured German Communists and Socialists fighting each other in the death camps, rather than uniting against the Nazis. There’s a Down Dawg downer for ya.
Reggie Mantle
@glory b:
Note that I have nowhere indicated that I’m “waiting for them to die off.” I did use the words “age out” because, you know, time does pass.
If you had a real answer, you wouldn’t need to twist words.
Your party is driving off its future.
glory b
@Reggie Mantle: “I’m not the other guy works for most black folks, and has for decades.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland:
Who do you believe will be responsible for making Philadelphia look non-placid, and whom will that benefit?
April
@Ella in New Mexico: Wait, am I the one who is obsessed or wringing her hands here? I was making the case for trying to stick with what actually happened. Your “report” of what happened was pure fiction. Is there a constituency for facing reality? I thought that was one of the things that separated Ds from Rs. I see you are not part of the reality constituency but still a Berner.
Elie
@Fair Economist:
This — In MI they made up 35% of those who voted in the primary. Bernie has been rodent copulated for some time and on his “foreign” donations that the FEC has really pulled him up on more than once. He willfully does not want to track those and they are probably laundered republican donations sent through “foreign” channels. They have kept his campaign on financial life support, allowing to continue what at this point is pointless disruption, since I don’t see much other rationale for it. One day he may live to regret this…
cleek
@Reggie Mantle:
your concern has been noted.
Tom Q
I agree with a few of the premises stated above in this thread:
1) Most of the Sanders-voting group, including the younger crowd, will have no problem voting for Clinton. The loud bunch of dissenters are not representative, though TV news will promote them as such for months to come.
2) These dissenters are, by my observation, largely from the Green/Paul-ite ranks. The latter are very likely the source of things like the NV brouhaha, give they did much the same thing in the GOP primaries in 2008, actually costing Romney delegates.
3) The sometimes Democrats/Green-threatening/one-time-Nader voters annoy me the most, because, as noted above, many of them are in my age group (I’m 64). They constantly refer to themselves as “Real Democrats”, but, as far as I can tell, they (like me) joined the party about the time it started getting its ever-loving ass kicked in national elections. (If they came along before me, in ’68, they no doubt complained about Humphrey right up to Election Day, and helped ease the path for Nixon.) I’m happy to disclose that I joyously supported McGovern in both primaries and GE in ’72, believing right up to the call of IL on election night that he’d somehow win. The difference between me and these age-compatriots of mine is, I realized That Guy wasn’t going to win, where they just kept voting for the latest version of him (Jesse Jackson, Jerry Brown, Bill Bradley, now Sanders), each time expecting a different result.
And many of them voted for Nader, not just in 2000 but in 1996. Which makes me wonder how they have the gall to call themselves Real Democrats; shouldn’t one requirement for that being that you’ve always voted for the party’s candidate?
Cacti
@Gin & Tonic:
Certainly not Boob.
He talks a good game, but he’s actually just a loud-mouthed public pensioner, living in a coastal white-flight enclave (according to his self-description in previous threads).
Bob In Portland
@AnotherBruce:
Now, I can continue to post things about the DNC, and if you want specifics on DWS in this election cycle, sure, I can post things all day. But the Villagers here at BJ never read them. For example, how many of my links have you followed and read just in this thread, Bruce? So you waste my time. If you think that Debbie Wasserman Schultz hasn’t been using the power of the Democratic National Committee for Hillary and against Sanders, that means you not only don’t read what I link to you also don’t know how to google. Pity for you.
Here you go, Bruce. Maybe if you punch the hippies a little more they’ll love Hillary.
glory b
@Reggie Mantle: What’s the difference?
And, if this age cohort can wait through the Trump administration and the Supreme Court he’ll appoint, they have an astounding amount of privilege, and that they would do this rather than compromise and help those less fortunate means this is only about their team winning, not making anything better.
Percysowner
@Reggie Mantle:
I shouldn’t be responding to a troll, but here goes. I’m voting for Hillary because she did her darnedest to pass Health Care Reform, that was almost identical to what Obama passed, when Bill was President and if the Republicans hadn’t fought it tooth and nail, by now we might have been able to institute an even more comprehensive health insurance system. I’m voting for Hillary because she supports gun control to help stop our nutzo-crazy homicide rate. I’m voting for Hillary because she has supported women’s rights and children’s rights for her entire career. I’m voting for Hillary because she welcomes immigrants and sees how we need to give them the opportunity to stay in this country and contribute to it. I’m voting for Hillary because she wants all races to have equal opportunities and she does want to find ways to change the racial injustice in our country. I’m voting for Hillary because she has shown herself to be competent and smart and knows her way around politics, which is necessary to implement any program she supports. I’m voting for Hillary, you dipwad, because her policies are ones I support. The fact that Donald Trump happens to support policies I hate and abhor is why I’m opposed to him. It’s not the individuals, its the policies.
As for Bernie, he has done nothing to convince me that he can get his policies enacted or that he understands the compromises necessary to govern.
NOTE: My brain is working just fine, you twit.
Trollhattan
@columbusqueen:
What I tell you? He just can’t help himself. HODOR!
Ironic part is Vlad and Trump are made for one another. Bernie is way too Jewish to ever be Vlad’s buddy.
AnotherBruce
@AliceBlue: I know, I made the same mistake. But I just hate the rudeness. (i know, it’s Balloon Juice.)
Bob In Portland
@Cacti: It will be a lovefest. The love that you villagers here generate for the Sanders supporters will flow out into the streets of Philadelphia.
And, no, I’m not going to Philadelphia.
glory b
@Bob In Portland: Dude, we’re just a bunch of anonymous nobodies on a blog. Hillary said none of this.
I don’t attribute everything Sanders supporters say to him, you shouldn’t do the same.
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: I think Philadelphia is going to survive. There is no Vietnam War, no draft, no gigantic generational divide, people can have long hair if they want, drugs are far more legal, civil rights have been enshrined into law (although they aren’t necessarily being enforced); Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King haven’t just been assassinated. 2016 is not 1968 – no one is going to riot about DWS or superdelegates. Bob is talking out of his behind.
Dog Dawg Damn
You really should read Josh Marshalls reporting on this.
Here
Been watching The Batte of Chile by Patricio Guzman–great film–and just reminded how tenuous our social contract and democracy, such as it is, is.
The leftists marching in the streets before the coup are an inspiration–creating public transportation and food distribution networks to replace the industries held hostage by foreign (U.S.) imperialists for the express purpose of fomenting a coup. They were chanting that the “the time to fight is now” and 24 hours later, the military bombed The Presidential Palace and killed their movement in its cradle.
To think that we would willingly elect such a person when so many countries have suffered similar fates at the hands of unelected strongmen is mind-boggling.
Cacti
I guess Boob hasn’t noticed that I no longer talk to it.
Just about it.
patroclus
@Reggie Mantle: Huh? I want an Employment Non-Discrimination Act, I want an immigration bill offering citizenship to long-term immigrants and, especially, their kids, I want to increase the minimum wage, I want Dodd-Frank amendments, I want Medicare for all, I want a climate change/energy conservation Act, I want a functioning USSC, I want more money for mass transit, I want infrastructure investment, I want to protect women’s liberty, I want equal pay, I want marriage equality enforced all over, I want all sorts of things and Hillary is the best candidate to achieve them.
Trollhattan
Since everybody can use a ray of sunshine, this.
My teenage girl is thrilled at the possibility of seeing the first woman president, and would be over the moon if it coincides with wresting back the senate.
Schlemazel Khan
Bob in Portland
Let me ask you a serious question. What, exactly, has DWS done to injure Sen Sanders and/or grease the skids for Clinton?
glory b
@Reggie Mantle: “…makes me wonder what you are progressive for, if it isn’t to help your fellow man.”
Still waiting for a response to this part….
Gin & Tonic
@Trollhattan:
They hire the same people, after all.
Brachiator
@Dog Dawg Damn:
American Exceptionalism means never learning anything from the example of other countries.
Bostondreams
@DCF:
And the only comment on the Tom Tomorrow Cartoon:
“If Bernie doesn’t get past the DNC’s corrupt blockades and HRC’s idiotic gender-based voters then bring on the revolution because HRC isn’t going to change anything. She’s as much or more of a sellout as Obama. We the people, we want justice and an end to the corruption. The crowds are there for a reason. Bernie is just the match. Next comes the fire. (P.S. we have more matches!)”
‘Idiotic gender-based voters’. Whatever could be meant by that?
And oh, that word ‘sellout’. Awesome.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: Hugh Hewitt given more than five minutes to deliver his spiel unchallenged on EvenTheLiberalMSNBC
schrodinger's cat
@Miss Bianca: She too has drunk the BS Kool-Aid, that’s why I included her in the list.
Dadadadadadada
@Percysowner: Nailed it. Have you read The Fourth Turning? It’s basically a boo-length treatment of that very idea, along with predictions (from the late 90s; those that concern time since then have been pretty accurate) of how the various cohorts will behave as they age.
Bob In Portland
@AliceBlue: Alice, have you read any of my links to DWT? No? Well, do you want me to cut and paste? People around here complain when I do that too. Oh what oh what should I do?
If you pretend to be at all interested in this campaign and at this late date have not heard the long list of complaints about DWS, then you are secure. You don’t want to know.
But here’s a petition at Moveon.com:
How much more do you want to get?
Mike J
What happened in NV
medium.com/@nvdems/the-facts-about-the-nevada-democratic-state-convention-on-saturday-106cc5db3d83#.…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
aw, Boobie’s morphing into that other looney troll now with seven foot long posts nobody reads
Bob In Portland
@Schlemazel Khan: This, for starters. But apparently Hillary supporters think laundering money is hunky dory. If you don’t see anything wrong about that move then you won’t see anything.
Now let’s get all those flies under the big tent.
PNW_WarriorWoman
Democratic Establishment’s Thuggish Power Grab at Nevada Convention
Bob In Portland
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly. People demand proof, and then they don’t read links. If I post long things they claim that the posts are too long.
You are the most dishonest anti-intellectual intellectuals I’ve ever run across.
But that’s okay. We’ll all be in the big tent. Right?
Chyron HR
@Mike J:
Nevada Caucus results
Clinton 52.6%
Sanders 47.3%
“County convention results”
Sanders 2,124
Clinton 1,722
And the Bernie Boosters have the gall to claim that the “establishment” was perpetrating a “thuggish power grab”?
patroclus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, I read them. They said that the Dems lost the mid-terms and DWS wanted fewer debates. That’s Bob’s entire case that will lead to riots in Philly.
Bob In Portland
@PNW_WarriorWoman: Ah, but complaints about that thuggish power grab offended poor King Cole so much that he threw down his scepter. So sad.
Bostondreams
@Bob In Portland:
The American system has been designed to prevent anything BUT incremental change. How exactly will Sanders get past this, when there are two other branches that can check presidential power? Not snarking, just curious. Because ‘revolution’ isn’t happening, considering the gerrymandered House and the ability of red state senators to use the rules and traditions of the Senate to block legislation.
patroclus
@Mike J: Thanks for providing the real story. Good job by the Clinton campaign. They won the initial caucuses and were organized enough to win the subsequent rounds too.
Cacti
@Chyron HR:
It should be crystal clear by now that the Sanders dead-enders don’t give a toss about the will of the voters.
They know what’s best for all of us, so their guy should be the nominee. Democracy be damned.
Sounds rather Stalin-esque, no?
Dog Dawg Damn
I guess I don’t understand the point of the Bernie movement at this point.
Given that it is highly improbable Sanders will win a majority of pledged delegates, and given that Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be the next president as a result of this, isn’t it time to cut your losses and move on to protect the left flank?
Fascist Dictatorships are remarkably good at making it difficult to organize viable leftist opposition, so we should probably avoid having one at all costs, no?
patroclus
@PNW_WarriorWoman: I don’t think requiring delegates to a Democratic convention to be members of the Democratic Party is “thuggish.” It seems logical to me and the rules were specified in advance. Try again.
Cacti
@patroclus:
OTOH, middle aged men screaming “bitch” at Sen. Boxer seems fairly thuggish.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: You missed the money-laundering. But can you say that Clinton’s campaign manager in 2008 is without sin? Really? Okay, but you can google a million complaints about Schultz and her misuse of the DNC in a half second. You waste my time and yours.
So, let all the flies under the big tent so we can all vote for Clinton.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Bob In Portland: this reminds me of what my dad said to my opposition to the Iraq War: “Oh, so you must support dictatorships that murder people in the streets.”
Um, what?
Organizing an electoral coalition to advance your interests in a two party system necessitates compromise. Haven’t you learned anything watching the GOP meltdown the last 8 years in a purity orgy?
Davebo
@mike in dc:
I’m not assuming. Trump can’t disband EOIR and change the constitution on his own no matter how huuuuge he is.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Bob In Portland: yes exactly. You don’t have to like everyone in the party to realize that it is in your best interests to support it at this point. Yes yes yes. Glad you’ve come around.
Lets hope this means the other Bros will stop pitching their tents all over the Internet and come join the party.
My Truth Hurts
Yeah, Bernie, an independent, destroyed the Democratic party. Not 30 years of DLC dominance pushing Republican policies. That’s rich.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: It isn’t money laundering, I didn’t miss it and we’ve been through this. I agree with you that DWS should go, she is certainly not without sin and she’s not been a particularly good DNC chair. But I’m not going to riot in Philly about it, though. Instead, I’m going to rely on Hillary, as President, to replace her after the campaign is over.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Davebo: yes but he can and will defy the judicial branch. People have far too much faith in the system. The system can flush itself out and be replaced nearly overnight with fellow travelers–and there are millions of them–who will carry out executive orders with disregard for judicial branch. The question becomes whether the legislative branch dares defy the leader at this point, and if so, whether the leader capitulates or brings in the tanks.
This isn’t rocket science. It’s history. Happened before and will happen again.
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
linking back to your own blog that noone reads isn’t proof, Bob.
Cacti
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Yup.
The judiciary has no tangible means of enforcing its orders over the political branches of government. It depends on them keeping each other above the board when it comes to following the Courts’ decisions. But if both the legislature and executive agree that the judiciary can go pound sand, there’s nothing the latter can do about it. For historical reference, see Andrew Jackson and the Indian Removal Act.
Matt McIrvin
@NonyNony:
There seems to be an occasional idea that Joe Biden would have actually been the ideal 2016 candidate. Which is weird to me, because the ideological differences between Biden and Hillary Clinton are minuscule, his corporatist ties are arguably stronger, and he was nowhere near as strong a candidate in 2008.
But there’s one thing he has that Hillary Clinton doesn’t, I guess.
ruemara
@Barbara: fire comment. Because it’s true.
bemused
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Unfortunately I heard most of that segment. Total garbage.
ruemara
@Reggie Mantle: you must be talking to yourself then. There’s a ton of good reasons from women’s reproductive rights, to LGBTQ rights, to healthcare. If you’re black, there’s voting rights. Literally a shit ton to protect and expand on. There’s her efforts to fund and support down ticket candidates, the barest minimum of which from Sanders would have put more people in his court if it was done earlier.
gorram
@Cacti: This is Nevada though, I suspect there’s an element of “want my country back” threaded through it all.
elftx
Interesting it’s Bernie’s campaign that received a letter from the FEC but Hils is accused of money laundering by Bobinputinland.
Really and truly disgusted with Bernie and his supporters.
Rikyrah is correct in pointing out what is at stake and it’s not a trophy for whining or chair throwing.
AliceBlue
@Bob In Portland:
Sigh. Here goes.
Cupcake, I agree that DWS needs to be replaced as head of the DNC. I just want to know what roadblocks she has thrown in Sanders’ way. Money laundering is not an acceptable answer.
lawguy
Hey if it doesn’t matter why aren’t you ragging on the Clinton people who I’m told don’t need the delegates? Gotta blame the outsiders because that is just so reasonable. Hey look let’s punch some hippies.
Ella in New Mexico
@April:
Because there are only two kinds of people in the world, right? Berners and Hilary voters? It couldn’t be that some of us are just sick of the drama of this whole Caine and Abel thing among Democrats?
And to be fair, it’s really not just you that I was directing my commentary to. It was to the general entropy of this site’s commentary over the course of the Primary campaign, and it’s having devolved into people having the same stupid insult sling-fests over whatever boring story can get scraped off the bottom of the barrel on any given day.
And for the record, many of the things I supported in the Sanders campaign have less to do with some kind of loyalty to the candidate, more to do with the kind of changes I want long-term. Hilary is gonna be the nominee and to her great credit, has spoken to these issues in a way, I think, that shows she is wiser and more liberal than she was able to be in times past. It’s why I’m proud and happy to vote for her. I never had any real animosity towards her, either. I think almost all the Sander’s supporters I know generally have a decent opinion of her and her qualifications. Well, maybe not for a couple–they mostly formed them during the Obama-Clinton campaign, by the way–but they’ve assured me they’re voting for her in the end anyway, so there: it’s possible. There ARE people in the world who can be sane, rational folks about this.
/handtouchesforehead/ There. I release you. Be at peace. All of you.
Go get a slushy and sit on a park bench at a playground, and watch the three year-olds laughing and getting along in a most remarkable way. And if that’s not enough, take my earlier advice and volunteer at Hospice. it really puts EVERYTHING into immediate perspective.
Gelfling 545
@Percysowner: My sister teaches early childhood growth and development to high school seniors who might want to become teachers or work in day care settings. Every year for 10 years she has surveyed the parents of her students on whether or not parents of young children now are more, permissive, protective, etc. than when their now 17/18 year olds were young. Invariably they believe that parents have become more permissive, protective, have lower standards, are raising their children to be less accountable, more indulged, etc. and the results are nearly identical year after year. Every generation believes the ones following don’t live up to their excellent standards. Just ask anybody.
gorram
@Davebo: You do realize that the Supreme Court itself was ignored by the president in order to cause the Trail of Tears? Like. There is a precedent here and it’s genocidal.
proterozoic
@goblue72: If Clinton can’t take some fairly modest criticism from the left
Calling her a hopelessly corrupt tool of the establishment who wants nothing more than to kill the liberal movement in the crib, is culpable for the war in Iraq and is basically a Republican anyway aren’t “mild criticisms”. It’s the same kind of alternate-universe psych profile that RWNJs built for Obama. Maybe you guys could pay Dinesh D’souza to make a documentary about her.
Davebo
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Examples? In the US?
les
@Bostondreams:
He’ll say “You’re corrupt!!”, and the Bernfeelers will stand outside looking at the congresscritters and senators and supremes with zeal and censure in their eyes, and the revolution will happen. And so it won’t matter that the Bernfeelers will never vote again, ’cause it’s icky, ’cause revolution over.
Or, you’re exactly right, and Sanders couldn’t get past it if he were elected, and no revolution will happen, and the Bernfeelers will never vote again, ’cause why bother?
Davebo
@gorram:
No, the court was ignored by the state of Georgia. And that was a very different time.
les
@My Truth Hurts:
For values of “Republican policy” equal to My Truth’s hobbyhorse, truth being his/hers alone. Since no Republican in the last 30 years agreed with or pushed said policies. Amazin’ how easy debate is when you just change the definitions to fit your hurtin’ truth.
Properly descriptive nym, I’ll give ya that.
les
@lawguy:
As a long time hippy, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t pretend to be one.
Gin & Tonic
@Ella in New Mexico:
And get arrested for suspicion of pedophilia? I see what you’re trying to do, Miss Ella, and I’m not going to fall into such an obvious trap.
Loviatar
@Davebo:
Its happening right now in Kansas. The Governor and State Legislature are in the process of invalidating the ability of the State Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of their policies. The general public doesn’t care and the partisans are cheering them on, whats to say it can’t and won’t happen on a national level.
President Andrew Jackson – “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
Barbara O'Brien
I’ve read a number of different accounts of this incident, and no two of them agree what happened. There’s plenty of evidence that the Nevada Democratic Party basically steamrollered the Sanders supporters, who did not take it well.
schrodinger's cat
Less than 200 comments to go. Yes we can!
J R in WV
@OzarkHillbilly:
Good job, OZHBilly… thanks.
So definitely wrong again.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
Oh, Honey, I’m so sorry:
i know it’s hard, and unicorns are really rare! But ponies are out there in the countryside. I know you didn’t see them in town, but that’s because they need grass and weeds and trees and room to run!
Ponies are real! We don’t have one right now, but we have had them… don’t give up! And, since I KNOW there are ponies, Maybe there are Unicorns, in the deepest woods.
So don’t give up! Ponies can be yours – just vote for Hillary!
/snark
There are ponies! Girl Scouts can get merit badges in ponies,can’t they?
Elie
@Barbara O’Brien:
Well in caucus situation you have to have all your delegates there. If they are late, or don’t show up, and your alternates don’t show, you do not have anyone to seat. Those seats go to the opponent. That is what I understand happened and being in a caucus situation here in WA, those are the rules. No warm body, not seat, no delegate for your person. The campaigns spend a lot of time making sure people show up and its a thankless but very necessary activity. You can totally screw the results from the original caucus by not organizing your people. I’m sure that it felt pretty terrible to give up those delegates, but its not a mystery for anyone following caucus rules.
J R in WV
@Run, Lillian!:
Games of chance, or words like so-cialis-t which have medication names in them, which spammers always use. Viagra is another work that can get you put in moderation. Words like Sh!t and Fuq don’t actually count, for moderation.
different-church-lady
I did, and I said so right here on this blog months ago. But my Google-fu sucks so badly that I haven’t been able to find the comment, and I’ve been trying for weeks now.
Gin & Tonic
@J R in WV:
One along those lines which does, though, is part of the name of a politically subversive women’s musical group from Russia. That gets either moderated or disappeared, can’t recall which.
Cacti
Even a Bernie supporting Nevada candidate was repulsed by the antics of the BernieBros over the weekend:
Mandalay
I gave a fair bit more than $27, and have also asked for a refund, but for a completely different reason: his unconscionable refusal to release his tax returns.
I fell for his shit hook, line and sinker, but he is dead to me now. He’s no better than (say) Huckabee or Carson or Fiorina. A shameless grifter. Fuck Sanders. I really wouldn’t care if he had a heart attack and dropped dead tomorrow. The most disappointing conman/politician I have ever come across.
Tee netzer
@Ella in New Mexico: She WON in Nevada! Remember?
My Truth Hurts
@les: Could you respond in English please? Whatever jibberish you typed into the comment box is incomprehensible.
different-church-lady
@Percysowner:
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Bob In Portland:
As long as you are alive and posting, it will be a long summer for everybody.
Schlemazel Khan
@Boob In Portland:
You truly are an idiot. Hilary did something so dirty and beneath St. Bernie, she raised money for down ticket candidates & those rotten bastards were actually grateful and returned the support with their own. THE HORROR!!! They should all burn in hell for this!!
You actually give idiots a bad name
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Schlemazel Khan: The Hillary Victory Fund donated only ~2 mill $ to state democratic parties. How much did she raise? 60 fuckin million $! Bernie sent out a fundraising email to 3 candidates he’s supporting, like Zephyr Teachout of New York, and raised almost as much money. State democratic spokesman have already come out and said they feel used by the Hillary Victory fund people. This used to be common knowledge on this blog but because it’s for Coles chosen candidate, and Anne Laurie, and Betty Cracker, it gets swept under the rug.
FWIW I think Cole should keep posting anti-Bernie posts! It def provided the catalyst for me to Pop my posting cherry. I’ve read this entire comment thread and along with myself, I believe there was at least one other new poster, “Run, Lillian.” This is good stuff! There’s obviously a divide within the BJ community between the Bobs in Portland on one side and the Coles on the other.
So much for 500 comments: ALMOST MADE IT!
Some things I’d like to point out. DWS is pro- Clinton, that’s why she still has a Job. If she got canned, it would open up a whole shit can of worms the DNC DOES NOT WANT in a primary/general election campaign.
That “Purity Puddle” just energized the activist wing of the party the likes of which hasn’t been seen since Obamas Organizing for America threw them under the bus circa 2010. See HIPPIE PUNCHING
Bernie sucks on drones. Fuck drones and fuck war and death. But this pales in connection with the Hawkishness of Clinton. She’s a neoliberal war hawk: Libya, Iraq, Afghan, Honduras, Syria…
Bernie hasn’t released his Tax Returns. I think he should. Idk what he’s waiting for. Bernie supporters wont bust his balls too much unless he has offshore accounts in Panama. Clinton…what can I say? She was on the board of WalMart. I fucking hate WalMart. I’ve buycotted them for a long time now. She’s got so many questionable donations to the Clinton Global Iniative while she was in the state department it’s not even funny. Bernie raises Tens of millions from millions of small donors. Hillary gets maxed out at the Clooney Fundraisers from a few thousand millionaires and billionaires.
War Hawk – Check
Pro- Corporations- Check
Oh let’s not forget “super predators” and “welfare reform” and the repeal of glass-st regulations in the 90s with her husband.
A few of yall bitch and moan about the younger folk bitching and moaning. Do you know what Clinton was about in the 60s? While Sanders was marching in the Civil Rights protest, Clinton was throwing down with that FUCKING ASSHAT MOTHERFUCKING FUCKFACE Barry Goldwater.
GEAUX CAVS!
Ella inNew Mexico
@Tee netzer: way to completely ignore the actual content and meaning of a post. Why, for fucks sake, did you feel it necessary to say that at 346 when it has nothing to do with what I said?
satby
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Don’t you have some more campaign events to disorganize?
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You say that as though it were a good thing.
Rome Again
@Splitting Image:
Bernie did NOT pull together most of the “anybody but Clinton” contingent from 2008. I know many Hillary supporters who were Obama supporters in 2008. I think you are imagining things.
Rome Again
@Barbara O’Brien:
I’ve heard several accounts and they all point to Bernie’s Non-Democrats not being allowed to be seated and the ones who were seated didn’t know or understand the rules and process. It’s pretty clear that the Bernie Bratz are screaming out of ignorance.
AndoChronic
@glory b: I live in a challenging inner-city neighborhood too which hasn’t recovered since the ’70s. Don’t try that one with me glory b, if that’s what you were implying with your statement. Extreme left or right will NEVER bring us to where we need to go as a country. My hope with both parties splitting is that it would only force candidates to move closer to the center. Of course there will be an uneven split, but clearly that doesn’t seem to matter much as it pertains to their influence. See 27%.