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Balloon Juice

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You are here: Home / Music / Happy July 4th

Happy July 4th

by DougJ|  July 4, 20177:30 pm| 142 Comments

This post is in: Music

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I’m not that big on patriotic songs. I think the wingers do protest too much when they go on about them. I mean, maybe if I supported a president who was selling us out to Vladimir Putin, then I’d have to crank up the Lee Greenwood to try to convince people I wasn’t a traitor. But I don’t so I don’t have to.

I love this version of the Star-Spangled Banner and I try to remember to post it every year. What’s your favorite rendition?

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Previous Post: « Open Thread: Greetings on the Fourth
Next Post: Happy Fourth of July »

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  1. 1.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 4, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    This is good.

    youtube.com/watch?v=Eo4Zel85Rn8&feature=youtu.be

  2. 2.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 7:38 pm

    Whitney Houston
    youtube.com/watch?v=N_lCmBvYMRs

  3. 3.

    lamh36

    July 4, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    @JPL: Yasss!! Was just gonna say Whitney Houston and I actually love it more than Marvin’s

  4. 4.

    fuckwit

    July 4, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    José can you see

  5. 5.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 4, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    AKA as Treason Day! (I’m American btw)

  6. 6.

    Wag

    July 4, 2017 at 7:45 pm

    We could consider thisas a new national anthem.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @lamh36: I don’t think it’s a contest. She was that good.

  8. 8.

    zhena gogolia

    July 4, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    Better get used to this one.

  9. 9.

    Facebones

    July 4, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    I’m voting for this as the new anthem.

  10. 10.

    jharp

    July 4, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    Marvin Gaye was one of the coolest dudes ever.

  11. 11.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Really, Doug missed his chance to link to this song themed to today?

    I don’t even know this guy anymore. ?

  12. 12.

    Mike J

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Everyone
    Everyone is so near
    Everyone has got the fear
    It’s holding on
    It’s holding on

  13. 13.

    HRA

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    No doubt at all it was Whitney Huston at the Bills game. I shared it today on Facebook.

  14. 14.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 7:57 pm

    @Facebones:

    I once met someone who used that song for her wedding. They had to find an instrumental version, for obvious reasons.

    (Technically, I think it was at the reception, not during the actual ceremony.)

  15. 15.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    July 4, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    Hendrix’s, duh.

    Also: Happy 79th, Bill Withers!

  16. 16.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    July 4, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    I didn’t know anybody could sing the anthem in a way that makes it worth listening to. It’s a truly awful, wretched song. I can’t believe we still have it. The Stars and Stripes Forever, that should be the anthem. Who cares whether it has any words or not? You can’t help but feel like this country is worth a shit when you hear that song.

  17. 17.

    RepubAnon

    July 4, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    Matt “Bleeding Gums” Murphy on the Simpsons – 24 minute version : youtube.com/watch?v=y4c2KDLWpI0

  18. 18.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    July 4, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    Typical secular liberal.

    Wants to talk about independence day instead of Christmas music.

  19. 19.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 8:05 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    “Stars and Stripes Forever” does have lyrics, but they don’t start until a full minute into the song. And it sounds best with a full orchestra, anyway.

  20. 20.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 4, 2017 at 8:08 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Stars and Stripes Forever is the national march! I didn’t know that until I listened to this introduction. Particularly well done. Always makes this old marching band piccolo-player tear up.

  21. 21.

    Mike J

    July 4, 2017 at 8:08 pm

    The US is firing missiles into the water off South Korea to show North Korea how tough we are.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    I would love to bring back “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”, but the internet atheists would have a shitfit.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
    Truth be known, I love this song in celebration of the season we can now celebrate, and I’m agnostic

    youtube.com/watch?v=57l6dSbVppM

  24. 24.

    James Powell

    July 4, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I always sing along with “Be kind to your web-footed friends, ’cause that duck might be somebody’s mother . . . ”

    Being a Boy Scout made me who I am today.

  25. 25.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    @Mike J:

    Great. There’s no way that could possibly go wrong.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 8:14 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Today I spent the day with friends and family at a celebration at Barrington Hall, the founder of Roswell. My friend reminded me that she spent the day where Julia Howe lived. Lydia Child is also buried in a nearby cemetery.

  27. 27.

    lamh36

    July 4, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    @JPL: Agree, Marvin’s may be the “coolest”, but for straight up clear vocals and perfection…and also the state of the nation at the time, it’s the one that I listen to, when I’m feeling patriotic…and the only one I can listen to outside of the 4th

  28. 28.

    lamh36

    July 4, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @JPL: Oh and I’d say every rendition since has been compared to Whitney’s version ever since

  29. 29.

    phein55

    July 4, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    Ray Charles, singing America, the Beautiful: When I’m in charge, that’s what it will be.

    Until then, how I imagine Willie Nelson would sing it, if he would.

  30. 30.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    July 4, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    I still favour “This Land Is Your Land” for the national anthem. “The Star-Spangled Banner” is certainly awful. We’re pretty much the only country I’m aware of that has a national anthem about how awesome we are at war.

  31. 31.

    Mike J

    July 4, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    @phein55: Willy sang it at the 19080 Democratic Convention.

  32. 32.

    Mike J

    July 4, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): France. Their anthem talks about watering their fields with impure blood.

  33. 33.

    Wag

    July 4, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    As an atheist on the internet I 100% support making the Battle Hymn of the Republic the national. Greatest patriotic song ever.

    Edit: Any song that inspired Union soldiers to kick Confederate asses is ok by me

  34. 34.

    Heywood J.

    July 4, 2017 at 8:26 pm

    Next to the Team ‘murka one upthread, this is a great one.

  35. 35.

    gbbalto

    July 4, 2017 at 8:29 pm

    @James Powell: The very words my mother learned at summer camp in the 30s!

  36. 36.

    eclare

    July 4, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Absolutely, Jimi rules. Didn’t know that about Bill Withers, the documentary Still Bill is very good.

  37. 37.

    Citizen Alan

    July 4, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I would be happy to bring back Barrle Hymn if we sang the third, pro-abolitionust verse.

  38. 38.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    The FAKE & FRAUDULENT NEWS MEDIA is working hard to convince Republicans and others I should not use social media – but remember, I won….— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 1, 2017

  39. 39.

    Schlemazel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:35 pm

    If we can’t have America the Beautiful I would vote for the Jimi Hendrix version from Woodstock as the official version.

  40. 40.

    cmorenc

    July 4, 2017 at 8:36 pm

    “America the Beautiful” would make a FAR better national anthem than the awkward “Star Spangled Banner”. Ray Charles sang a magnificent “America the Beautiful” as the prelude to the second Sugar Ray Leonard v Roberto Duran fight, and you can clearly see that Ray’s rendition moved Sugar Ray Leonard from “fight face” to a huge grin, and Leonard hugged Ray Charles immediately after the final note. Trivia: this turned out to be Duran’s infamous “no mas” fight, but that takes nothing away from Ray Charles’ moving rendition.

    Here’s the link to Charles’ performance on Youtube:
    youtube.com/watch?v=e9tdHQkfxXY

  41. 41.

    Schlemazel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:37 pm

    @zhena gogolia:
    in that genre I am more partial to this one:
    youtube.com/watch?v=LaTbI7FCLl0

  42. 42.

    Brachiator

    July 4, 2017 at 8:39 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I always thought that the anthem was as much about surviving against huge odds, even more than it is about a victory.

    Scanning the Internets, I read that the song became the national anthem in 1931, during the Depression, when things were tough.

    I think all renditions of the song are pretty crappy. I kinda like “This Land is your land” as an alternative. Maybe even “We will rock you.”

  43. 43.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:42 pm

    @Brachiator: “Hail, hail Freedonia, land of the brave and free”

  44. 44.

    Schlemazel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:44 pm

    @Brachiator:
    Believe it or not, Ripley began campaigning for the damn song during WWI. He was a jingoistic piece of work so the song fit the times & the man

  45. 45.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:44 pm

    America the Beautiful mentions God. Too many people on our side would object.

  46. 46.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Wants to talk about independence day instead of Christmas music.

    No more “Happy Holidays” for me now that Trump has come along. Glory be!!

  47. 47.

    Schlemazel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:46 pm

    @Baud:
    Like we complain about the slavery lines in the SSB?

    BTW: here is a comic from Cyanide and Happiness fitting for this discussion

  48. 48.

    OldDave

    July 4, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    On singing The Star Spangled Banner

  49. 49.

    JanieM

    July 4, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    @JPL: @lamh36: @HRA: Yes, yes, and yes again. I get chills every time I listen to Whitney’s version.

    Here she is singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

  50. 50.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    @germy: Tweets like that make it crystal clear that Trump is shocked like hell that he actually won the election. I really don’t believe that he ever intended to actually be President. It was all a huge joke that got way out of hand once the Russians decided that he was their man.

  51. 51.

    hellslittlestangel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: More and more I wish we’d lost the Revolutionary War. At the very least, slavery would have been abolished sooner.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    @Schlemazel: No one cares about any stanza except the first.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:51 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Maybe that’s the real reason he fired Comey.

  54. 54.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:53 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    More and more I wish we’d lost the Revolutionary War. At the very least, slavery would have been abolished sooner.

    And we’d have the National Health Service

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    This was almost the Anthem
    I’ve always loved the tune, but the lyrics leave a lot to be desired.

  56. 56.

    Schlemazel

    July 4, 2017 at 8:57 pm

    @Baud:
    Not many care about that one either

  57. 57.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:58 pm

    How about Paul Simon’s “American Tune” for a new anthem.

  58. 58.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:59 pm

    And I don’t know a soul who’s not been battered
    I don’t have a friend who feels at ease
    I don’t know a dream that’s not been shattered
    or driven to its knees
    But it’s all right, it’s all right
    We’ve lived so well so long
    Still, when I think of the road
    we’re traveling on
    I wonder what went wrong
    I can’t help it, I wonder what went wrong

  59. 59.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    @germy: True.

  60. 60.

    EBT

    July 4, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    Would a disastrous war with NK harm the GOP?

  61. 61.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:04 pm

    One of my favorite movies was In America and Sarah Bolger’s version of Desperado was perfect. I still miss Mateo. (yes I know he was a fictional character)

    vimeo.com/29692313

  62. 62.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 9:05 pm

    @EBT: Depends how it came about.

  63. 63.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 4, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    @EBT: Depends on how many of us are left afterward.

  64. 64.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 4, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    @Mike J:

    Willy sang it at the 19080 Democratic Convention.

    I’ve always figured that Willy would be with us in 19080, I’m not sure about the Democratic Party though.

  65. 65.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: lol Now you are sounding like me yesterday. What bothers me is that there are some among us, not on this site, that think that North Korean lives are not worthy.

  66. 66.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 9:13 pm

    @Baud: Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin would object.

    That’s good enough for me.

  67. 67.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Ah, there it is. And this is needed as well.

  68. 68.

    Hal

    July 4, 2017 at 9:20 pm

    So is Trump not being able to find the limo right in front of him a sign of jet lag or senility?

  69. 69.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:21 pm

    At the event today that I went to there were several activities for children. One was a scavenger hunt of a picture of a bald eagel. Yup, an eagel. Not sure how many of the eagels were found.

  70. 70.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 pm

    @Hal: My reaction was is this for real..

  71. 71.

    khead

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 pm

    Stars and Stripes Forever

  72. 72.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 9:24 pm

    The illegal fireworks are in full effect tonight here in Southern Maryland. Boom boom boom. My dogs are strangely quiet because usually they go crazy when fireworks go off.

  73. 73.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    July 4, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    @EBT: *Kim Jong-Un launches missile towards West Coast, which is intercepted*
    *Trump then immediately proceeds to turn North Korea into a parking lot*
    Assuming conservative antiwar sentiment is primarily concerned with “loss of ‘Murican lives,” probably not much, though hopefully enough.

  74. 74.

    EBT

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): My thought is that he will swing in a couple of carriers within a few hundred miles and Un spends his 50 or so ship busters and two or three get through and sink or mortally wound a carrier.

  75. 75.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    If we are doing patriotic songs that should be our national anthem, I suggest this one – the full version.

  76. 76.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Depends on how many of us are left afterward.

    I think it depends whether we care if South Korea survives as an entity, and the US troops who are sitting ducks. Seoul will be gone, for sure.

  77. 77.

    Uncle Cosmo

    July 4, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): FOADIAF.

  78. 78.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    CNN responds to Trump’s Twitter attack: ‘Almost as painful as having to call him president’

  79. 79.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    The annual viewing of 1776 has begun. This year, I’m watching for connections to Hamilton, of course. There’s definitely a costuming connection, especially when it comes to the colors used.

  80. 80.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 4, 2017 at 9:38 pm

    @germy: Hah! Please grow a backbone CNN. Do something concretely defiant against that loser and/or his minions.

  81. 81.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 9:39 pm

    @germy:

    CNN responds to Trump’s Twitter attack

    I’m sure Orange Julius never heard Mark Twain’s old maxim: Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.
    Maybe updated to “Never pick a fight with people who issue pixels by the billions”

  82. 82.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I also prefer “This Land Is Your Land”, provided that it’s mandatory to sing the penultimate and antepenultimate verses:

    As I went walking I saw a sign there
    And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
    But on the other side it didn’t say nothing,
    That side was made for you and me.

    In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
    By the relief office I seen my people;
    As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
    Is this land made for you and me?

    Because they make the actual meaning of the song clear, and not just some paean to an imaginary perfect place. Woody was no sugarcoated sop writer, and people tend to forget that.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    @efgoldman: Maybe not. Kyle Mizokami at National Interest:

    The world got a rare look at the preparedness of North Korean artillery units in November 2010, when the country conducted a surprise artillery attack on the southern island of Yeonpyeongdo. In preparation for the attack a battalion of twelve 122-millimeter MRLs was believed to have been moved onto the Kangnyŏng peninsula near Yeonpyeongdo. Such rocket launchers are division-level artillery and, according to 38North, this battalion is believed to have belonged to the nearby 33rd Infantry Division.

    On November 23, the island was hit by two barrages totally 170 rounds of 122-millimeter rockets—and possibly some rounds from nearby 76.2-millimeter coastal artillery units. Republic of Korea (ROK) return fire was limited by an inoperative counter battery radar, which was repaired in time to direct a strike on North Korean rocket launcher units. Two civilians and two ROK Marines were killed in the attacks. Curiously, the rocket battalion should have been able to fire a total of about 288 rockets, but only 170 actually landed near the island. Of those 170 rockets, only 80 landed on the island itself, the rest in surrounding waters.

    […]

    Since the 1990s, right about the time the Clinton administration decided not to undertake military action against North Korea’s nuclear program, the general consensus has been that Pyongyang had enough artillery to turn nearby Seoul, home to approximately 25 million South Koreans, into a “sea of fire” that could see up to one million civilians killed. This apocalyptic scenario has been a trump card against strong military action against Pyongyang, with fears it could order a bombardment of the city as an act of retaliation.

    A 2011 study by the Nautilus Institute throws a considerable amount of cold water on this scenario. While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward. Despite the thousands of artillery pieces, only 700 heavier guns and rocket launchers, plus the newer 300-millimeter MRLs, have the range to strike Seoul. Only a third would normally be fired at once, and notional rates of fire would be slowed tremendously by the need to withdraw guns into their hardened artillery sites (HARTS) to shelter them from counter battery fire.

    Other factors reduce the projected loss of life in the greater Seoul metropolitan area. The city has extensive air raid shelters for civilians that will quickly reduce the exposed population density. The North will struggle to keep these heavy artillery units supplied with shells, particularly with its aging supply system. Finally, U.S. and ROK forces will quickly begin hunting down units participating in the bombardment, causing their numbers to drop almost immediately.

    Finally, the North would face a strategic dilemma. Artillery used to bomb Seoul could not be used to soften up border defenses for a general invasion, and in wartime it would be critical to capture the enemy capital quickly as possible. An all-out bombardment of the South Korean capital might very well leave Pyongyang without the ability to actually capture it, while at the same time ensuring a U.S./South Korean counteroffensive that would spell the end of the regime of Kim Jong-un. Even if a million civilians were killed in Seoul it would ensure Kim’s untimely demise, and from his perspective that is still almost certainly a very bad trade.

    Successful war is hard.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    khead

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Not just southern MD. Folks in Cecil Co. are doing their thing too. The cats are freaked.

  85. 85.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    As the crow flies, I’m pretty close to the local fireworks, and the patchwork of colors through the trees is amazing. Finch is not appreciating it though.

  86. 86.

    Uncle Cosmo

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Heard a riproaring version of TS&SF by the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra (David Zinman cond.) in their first concert after returning from a tour of the USSR in 1986, in which they essentially reprised the progam they played at every stop in the Evil Empire.

  87. 87.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne: In a one-to-one comparison, I prefer 1776 to Hamilton. Musically, the latter is maybe slightly better, but the fact that the writers of the former used primary sources (especially the letters between the Adamses) solidifies it for me. Besides, while I grew up wanting to play Adams, I always knew I was physically and vocally much more suited for Franklin, as I now am temperamentally, as well.

  88. 88.

    TriassicSands

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    What’s your favorite rendition?

    My favorite rendition of one of the worst songs ever written? Gee, that’s a tough one. I think I’ll go with…
    …None. It’s a terrible song and a terrible national anthem. I guess that means:
    1. I hate America
    2. I’m a communist
    3. I hate the Baby Jesus
    4. I don’t think the NRA is the world’s most benevolent organization

    If I have to pretend to like, revere, or in any way approve of the Star Spangled Banner as our National Anthem, then I’m turning in my membership card to the US of A.

    I doubt there is any point in our even considering switching to something better — is there any song that could garner majority support? I doubt it. Today, iDixie might win a plurality.

  89. 89.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    @germy: The Reddit creator of the anti-CNN video which Trump re-tweeted has now “apologized” after CNN discovered his identity. Of course, he’s come through with the “My best friend is X, so I can’t be a bigot” defense.

    When asked specifically about his other posts that consisted of racist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic language and imagery, he answered, “I love people of all races, creeds and origins. One of my best friends is a homosexual and one of my best friends is Jewish and one of my best friends is Muslim.”

  90. 90.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 9:46 pm

    @Another Scott:

    While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward.

    Would you like to be the president making the call? Would you trust the current WH fraud to deal with it at all?

    ETA: Rhyme was accidental

  91. 91.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 9:48 pm

    @khead: Maryland really needs to crack down on this because a couple of years back, one of our neighbors burned down his house with illegal fireworks. You’d think the rest of our neighbors would have learned their lesson from that but obviously not. They’re out in full force tonight.

  92. 92.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:48 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: He said “trolling is addicting.”

    I think he would have continued merrily if he hadn’t experienced some pushback.

  93. 93.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    July 4, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    @Bruuuuce: Didn’t see Hamilton, but I loved Mr. Feeny.

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    @Another Scott: Have you ever seen the damage that even a militarily ineffective artillery barrage can do?

  95. 95.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:51 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I wish they’d leave the fireworks to the professionals. At least that’s a nice display.

    Our cat right now is very tense. Stupid drunken amateurs in the neighborhood are blowing up their explosives. Just random, ugly noise.

  96. 96.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:51 pm

    @TriassicSands: You are a cheerful-ass person.

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    @efgoldman: War would be a disaster. It always is. Even moreso when it’s blundered into, and when it’s started by knownothing braindamaged blowhards.

    The point of the post, though, was to say that at least a few people (who are better informed about this stuff than me) say that while NK has lots of artillery, that doesn’t mean they could “flatten” Seoul.

    That is all.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    @efgoldman: I do not like him in a boat. I would not like him with a goat.

  99. 99.

    J R in WV

    July 4, 2017 at 9:56 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Wow, what a great performance. We will miss him…

  100. 100.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 9:58 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I would not like him with a goat.

    Is he a friend of Kaus’?

  101. 101.

    TriassicSands

    July 4, 2017 at 9:58 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yawn. Liking or not liking the Star Spangled Banner has nothing to do with being cheerful or not. Your comment is ridiculous. But typical.

    Why don’t we agree — I’ll ignore you, you ignore me.

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 9:58 pm

    @Another Scott:

    while NK has lots of artillery, that doesn’t mean they could “flatten” Seoul.

    That rather depends on the meaning of flatten. London* continued to exist after the Blitz. A shitload of London was flattened.

    *Feel free to substitute Manchester, Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden, Coventry, PloiestI, etc.

  103. 103.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    Musically, the latter is maybe slightly better, but the fact that the writers of the former used primary sources (especially the letters between the Adamses) solidifies it for me.

    Hamilton is quite surprisingly historically accurate, though they did fiddle with the sequence events right at the end to have Phillip die prior to the election of 1800 (his fatal duel was part of the aftermath). Several of the lines actually are taken directly from letters between the various characters, including “if you really loved me, you would share him” (yes, Angelica actually wrote a version of that to Eliza!) and the whole “comma after dearest” bit.

    But, yes, 1776 does make much more of an effort to be a period piece, while Hamilton tries to update the language for modern audiences. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I like ’em both.

    Besides, while I grew up wanting to play Adams, I always knew I was physically and vocally much more suited for Franklin, as I now am temperamentally, as well.

    It’s pretty obvious watching the movie that Miranda’s characterization of Hamilton is very influenced by William Daniels’ John Adams. Not only are they both obnoxious and disliked and convinced they know better than everyone else, they have the same hairstyle, fer goshsakes!

    Franklin is by far the best part in the play, though — he has all of the best lines. I have a couple of friends who are involved in a local theater company and I keep saying they need to do a production of 1776 just so one of them can play Franklin. The poor guy even has gout, too!

  104. 104.

    WestTexan70

    July 4, 2017 at 10:00 pm

    Hendrix and Gaye run rings around the overrated Houston.

    Come to think of it almost everything Houston (except mid90s era Hakeem) is overrated.?

  105. 105.

    J R in WV

    July 4, 2017 at 10:00 pm

    @jharp:

    And Marvin was killed by his religious nutjob father.

    We need more religion in America??

  106. 106.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:03 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): I was always more of a KITT guy. And, of course, The White Shadow was fun for its time. But the best later role, IMO, for an actor from the movie, was John Cullum’s Holling Vincoeur in Northern Exposure.

  107. 107.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    @TriassicSands: Oh, ffs. You read like a person who looked at people playing a harmless game and said “You shouldn’t be playing a game. There are people starving in Country X.” I am frivolous at times. I beg your pardon.

  108. 108.

    J R in WV

    July 4, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Awww! We have something in common, I played a Sousaphone in marching band. Responsible for my remaining strength in my old age!! And good wind when I blow in that gadget at the annual physical. I usually blow about 35 years old, which is pretty good for 66+ !

  109. 109.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:05 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Franklin is by far the best part in the play, though — he has all of the best lines.

    Yep. It’d be worth it to play him for just the first, and in many ways the least, of those, “Haven’t you ever seen a great man before?”

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 10:07 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: See above.

    Also too, if one wants to cite a less sanguine author, there’s Han Ho Suk (from 2000):

    North Korea has 2 artillery corps and 30 artillery brigades equipped with 120mm self-propelled guns, 152mm self-propelled mortars, 170mm guns with a range of 50 km, 240 mm multiple rocket launchers with a range of 45 km, and other heavy guns. North Korea has about 18,000 heavy guns. North Korea’s 170mm Goksan gun and 240mm multiple-tube rocket launchers are the most powerful guns of the world. These guns can lob shells as far south as Suwon miles beyond Seoul. The big guns are hidden in caves. Many of them are mounted on rails and can fire in all directions. They can rain 500,000 conventional and biochemical shells per hour on US troops near the DMZ. The US army bases at Yijong-bu, Paju, Yon-chun, Munsan, Ding-gu-chun, and Pochun will be obliterated in a matter of hours.

    The US army in Korea is equipped with Paladin anti-artillery guns that can trace enemy shells back to the guns and fire shells at the enemy guns with pin-point accuracy. However, it takes for the Paladins about 10 min to locate the enemy guns, during which time the Paladins would be targeted by the enemy guns Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, a former US army commander in Korea, stated that the US army in Korea would be destroyed in less than three hours.

    (I get suspicious about comments, like those of Schwartz, without knowing the surrounding context.)

    Who’s right? With luck we’ll never find out…

    US Korean bases are being moved south of Seoul.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:09 pm

    @WestTexan70:

    Come to think of it almost everything Houston (except mid90s era Hakeem) is overrated.

    I kind of like the classic rainbow unis for the Astros, personally.

  112. 112.

    EBT

    July 4, 2017 at 10:10 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: A significant portion of Seoul is out of range of a good deal of the artillery that NK has. That which it does have is all but irreplaceable, and any sort of artillery strike that failed to totally knock out SK’s ability to respond would result in NK having minutes to fire. And personally I believe that NK does not have that sort of alpha strike capability.

  113. 113.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    @Another Scott: All I am saying is that I know the kind of damage the guns that I worked with could do. People who poo-poo that are like Georg C. Scott’s character in Dr Strangelove – “I’m not saying we won’t get out hair mussed.”*

    *From memory; may not be word for word.

  114. 114.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    I keep wishing that Howard da Silva had lived in the era of audiobooks. He has one of those voices that could read the phone book and make it interesting.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:16 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    “Not everyone’s from Boston, John.”

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    @EBT: Maybe my personal prejudices and loyalties affect my judgment. I would ask if the average citizen of Seoul wants to bet on you rather than me. I should note that I tend toward liberal interventionism.

  117. 117.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, yes, indeed. I’m not an audiobooks kind of guy (I lose track, doing other things), but I’d love to just have his voice in my headphones.

    “I won’t put politics on paper; it’s a mania.”

  118. 118.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:26 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    The line came up, and I had it slightly wrong. It’s actually, Not everybody’s from Boston, John.

  119. 119.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:31 pm

    @Mnemosyne: That’s an easy memory error. NP.

    “The people have read Mr. Paine’s “Common Sense”. I doubt very much the Congress has.” Some things never change.

  120. 120.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 4, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I read his whole statement. It is as classy and absolute a refutation of Trump and online racist garbage as it gets, including declaring that he is done with it and an explanation of how eye-opening it was that messages he sent just to get a rise out of forum-goers really hurt people. It does not equivocate or sorry-not-sorry. Most of it is an explanation of how seductive trolling is, in tones of a lesson learned and shared rather than excuse-making.

  121. 121.

    rikyrah

    July 4, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    Gaye’s anthem…I always imagine women throwing panties to him afterwards:)

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:38 pm

    @rikyrah: Not during?

  123. 123.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:41 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    When Adams gets squicked out because they’re lurking outside Jefferson’s window waiting to see if Jefferson is done having sex with his wife yet, “Don’t worry, John, the history books will clean it up.”

  124. 124.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Wife?

  125. 125.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:46 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Jefferson’s wife, not Adams’ wife. In case that wasn’t clear. It’s probably ahistorical, but Martha Jefferson comes to Philadelphia during the writing of the writing of the Declaration of Independence.

    ETA: Jefferson didn’t get involved with Sally Hemmings until after Martha Jefferson’s death. To me, the whole Hemmings thing is even more gross when you know that she was almost certainly Martha Jefferson’s half-sister, so Sally was basically a replacement for his dead wife.

  126. 126.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 10:47 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Leading to one of Adams’ best lines: (cribbed from IMDB for exactitude) “It doesn’t matter. I won’t be in the history books anyway, only you. Franklin did this and Franklin did that and Franklin did some other damn thing. Franklin smote the ground and out sprang George Washington, fully grown and on his horse. Franklin then electrified him with his miraculous lightning rod and the three of them – Franklin, Washington, and the horse – conducted the entire revolution by themselves.”

    @Omnes Omnibus: Martha. As sent for by Adams to get Jefferson past his sexual frustration and to get him to work.

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 10:52 pm

    @Bruuuuce:

    Just got past Franklin’s best unspoken exchange:

    John Adams: “Wake up, Franklin, you’re going to New Brunswick!”
    Dr. Benjamin Franklin: [Half asleep] “Like hell I am. What for?”
    Hopkins: “The whoring and the drinking!”
    [Franklin gets up and marches off right behind Adams]

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 10:54 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I had assumed that the “bouncy-bouncy” was with Sally Hemmings and that it was veiled a anti-slavery and historical whitewashing reference. I may have given the 1776 the benefit of the doubt. I thought the play was calling him out.

  129. 129.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 4, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    @Hal: Jet lag? From New Jersey?

  130. 130.

    Bruuuuce

    July 4, 2017 at 11:00 pm

    @Mnemosyne: My watch will be when I get in to work at midnight. Looking forward to it

  131. 131.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 11:01 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It’s pre-Hemmings. There are quite a few open references to slavery and the conflicts between the Founding Fathers, so no need to be oblique for this particular work.

  132. 132.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 11:05 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Burr did better. He made sure that Theodosia was educated as well as any man.

  133. 133.

    Jim Parish

    July 4, 2017 at 11:07 pm

    I love 1776, but I find it hard to forgive its near-slanderous treatment of James Wilson. (He’s not the only one who gets a bum treatment, but his is the most extreme case, I think.)

  134. 134.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 11:25 pm

    @Another Scott: They’re finally getting around to getting out of Seoul. They’ve been talking about doing that for at least 30 years.

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    July 4, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Just got past the epic “Molasses to Rum to Slaves” number and they do whitewash Jefferson a bit, though not the slavery issue.

  136. 136.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 4, 2017 at 11:32 pm

    @Mnemosyne: A bit?

  137. 137.

    frosty

    July 4, 2017 at 11:35 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    FOADIAF.

    I gather from various comments your a Marylander. As a former Baltimorean I agree. We wouldn’t even have a USA now without the defense of Ft McHenry and the Battle of North Point. DC rolled over and got burned and Baltimore stopped the British. ‘Nuff said.

  138. 138.

    frosty

    July 4, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Maryland can try to crack down, but unfortunately the fireworks shops in South PA do a booming (oops, sorry ’bout that) business. Oddly, you can only buy them with an out-of-state ID.

  139. 139.

    Beautifulplummage

    July 5, 2017 at 12:08 am

    Sun just went down over the Olympic Mts. Hoping for some sparkly shows in an hour to make up for all the noise. Kitties seem mellow, which is good.

  140. 140.

    Mnemosyne

    July 5, 2017 at 1:05 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    He says he has “resolved” to free his slaves, but of course, he never did.

    One of the books that That Play relied on that I think some Burr defenders here really liked was The Heartbreak of Aaron Burr. Basically, the guy did go a little nuts towards the end of his life because he lost literally everyone he ever loved: grandparents, parents, wife, children, even his only grandchild.

  141. 141.

    Suzan

    July 5, 2017 at 2:22 am

    Marvin’s 1983 version is the best. I regret that I can’t find a version without a sportscaster speaking over the first few words but it is worth it and I LOVE that you post this every year.

  142. 142.

    NotoriousJRT

    July 6, 2017 at 3:32 am

    @phein55:
    I’m with you.

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