Across the northern hemisphere, winter has officially arrived! (Dec 21). #wintersolstice pic.twitter.com/9se51GtsVA
— Orthodox Faith (@since33) December 21, 2019
The days are now, however slowly, getting longer again. May this winter be less horrible than recent months, and may Murphy the Trickster God turn His chaotic attentions towards those who most deserve it. Also, Happy Hannukah!
Catherine D.
Not getting longer just yet – solstice means sun stands still. That’s why Yule celebrations start a few days later (like the 25th).
HinTN
@Catherine D.: Longer? Yes. Imperceptibly? Also yes. Celebrate!
chris
@Catherine D.:Don’t be a wet blanket ;-) From Wunderground:
ThresherK
@HinTN: The day-to-day difference in daylight at the solstices is much less than during the equinoxes. But at this point I will hang on to every little increase.
germy
germy
Steeplejack
Foodie note: If you get rugelach at Trader Joe’s, get the ones in the package with the mostly magenta (purple) label (“cinnamon nut rugelach”), not the ones with the mostly white label (“raspberry rugelach”). The former, which are excellent and worth seeking out, also have a strong raspberry base. The latter just suck.
Also, I was at Harris Teeter the other night and looked at the kefir selection. I note for whoever wailed on the thread the other night that Lifeway has a non-dairy kefir available.
raven
@germy: That’s what they get for going to some weak shit like that in the first place.
TaMara (HFG)
You guys, remember the story Anne Laurie posted yesterday about the dog that wandered into a house and magical things happened? Well they found the guy who shut the door when he saw it open at 3 am, thus making sure Suzy stayed put.
TaMara (HFG)
This entire story has restored my faith in humanity just a bit.
Jay
TaMara (HFG)
@TaMara (HFG): And they all met!
Steeplejack
@chris:
I really put that extra three seconds to good use!
But Weather Underground tells me that tomorrow will only be two seconds longer. What the—!
On a related note, I have been trying to find a (small) app that will put the current temperature in my Win10 taskbar next to the time. I have one now from the “Weather Network,” but it is kind of clunky and seems slow to update. Any suggestions?
ThresherK
For those of us talking about TMC lately, here’s a poster from Gold Diggers of 1933.
Movie posters have largely become boring in my lifetime.
Steeplejack
@ThresherK:
I watched it again this morning. Perked me up! It’s like a Swiss watch how everything fits together perfectly.
But, man, “Remember My Forgotten Man” always chokes me up at the end. I realize it’s pure shmaltz, but still . . .
And (fingers crossed) I didn’t get the “Pettin’ in the Park” earworm like I did last time.
germy
@Steeplejack: I may have mentioned this in an earlier thread, but Busby Berkley has a brief cameo in the “Forgotten Man” segment.
Ken
@ThresherK: You don’t like the “every principal staring directly at the camera while something behind them explodes” look? I think it’s some kind of default setting for the poster design software.
germy
On the subject of old movies, I was surprised to learn that Richard Erdman, who had a regular part on the TV series Community, and made a guest appearance on Dr. Ken, was in the 1946 movie Janie Gets Married, which was filmed in 1945 but released in 1946. It was Robert Benchley’s last appearance in a feature length film.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
You must have used earplugs! No fair!
raven
@Jay: It’s gonna get a lot worse than that.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
After the movie, TCM ran their “Who we lost this year” montage. A lot of big names. For some reason Bruno Ganz hit me. In addition to Wings of Desire, he was in Gillian Armstrong’s excellent movie The Last Days of Chez Nous (1992). Definitely worth watching if you run across it. I think it’s on BritBox or (more likely) Acorn.
Just checked: possibly available on Netflix. I don’t have a subscription, and the Google was ambiguous.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
He was also in Bengazi (1955)!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047872/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_135
We just saw him in something but I can’t remember what.
Steeplejack
@germy:
I saw your comment and watched for it. He even had a speaking line!
zhena gogolia
I broke down and signed up for Britbox. Now we’re knee-deep in Inspector Morse.
Steeplejack
@Ken:
“Every principal staring directly at the camera while something behind them explodes.”
And that’s just the rom-coms!
germy
Aleta
@TaMara (HFG): I also love how this story says timing is magical and we may participate for as long as we are here.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
I think I got limited immunity after suffering through the earworm when it was on a week or so ago. God, I had it for days.
germy
In time for the holidays, Keeping In Shape, a Benchley short subject on the importance of physical fitness, diet, and dental care.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
You say that like it’s a bad thing! (Joke.) My local Brit-centric PBS station (WETA-UK) started cycling through the original series a few months ago. Interesting to watch them now with foreknowledge of Lewis’s series and Endeavour. It holds up pretty well.
Catherine D.
@chris: I stand by my cranky :) Sunrise where I am continues to get later for almost two weeks, even while the days lengthen, so as a morning person, I am offended. (Never looked it up, but I’m guessing time zones are the cause.)
Mary G
@TaMara (HFG): That story makes me a little more inclined to believe in God. Both those guys are great, and I’m so glad they raised the money to get Suzy in the best health they can.
Ivan X
Dear Juicers,
I’m trying to make sense of my day. Please try not to vilify me if you have it in you to resist it.
I decided to spend the day, well, drinking at my local bar in NYC. I got into a bar-type discussion with a friendly fellow who, it be came apparent to both of us, was on the opposite side of the fence as I am. (As it turns out, this meant that he’s not a Republican, nor Democrat, as he was eager to point out — just, you know, a White Christianist Libertarian.)
At first, he shut down the convo in the name of civility, when our differences became apparent. But he seemed civil, and frankly I miss being able to have open conversations with people willing to, if briefly, consider my point of view while I, if briefly, consider theirs. I used to do that a lot before our current dreadful moment. So, perhaps unwisely, I re-engaged him.
And he seemed like someone who was normal enough, until he started talking about how all the media was left-wing (cough), and then asked me to name a country that had embraced multiculturalism and succeeded. I cited this country, which he rejected on the basis of it being too young to claim success. I stated while tribalism might be endemic to humanity, our tribe is American, and if push came to shove, that’s what I’d claim, versus being Jewish. He said he thought I was in a minority with that position (ha), and Jews are great, good for them, except for their being in support of first, second, third, and fourth wave feminism. I asked him what’s wrong with any of those, and he said he only stood behind the first wave and a half, and the rest was too extreme. He also claimed Bush was awful, but it was Obama who started race wars. Uh huh. He also said he believes in self-determination, which is why Israel is so great for Jews. Everyone gets to have it except for White Europeans. It went on like this for a while, and that was before he got to the Second Amendment. He sounded normal until he suddenly sounded insane (and I didn’t hesitate to tell him when he did).
Here are my concerns, apart from being a day at the political races. Obviously I found his views repugnant, but I didn’t feel like he was arguing in bad faith or that he was a bad person on a one-to-one level. I never felt like he was trying to shout me down or demean me — to the contrary, he said I was one of the smartest people he’d talked to in a long time. So on the one hand, I felt as though I was, by virtue of engagement, legitimizing someone whose views I found deeply offensive. On the other, I feel like, if I refuse to have conversations like this, am I just in my own echo chamber where I’ll never have to have a perspective challenged?
And here’s the part that bothers me even more — as he was making his claim that what made the country successful was when it was majority White Christian, and he said it is sad, but he now thinks of himself as White American, rather than American, I could feel part of my lizard brain going along with his prejudice. I fought it off, but it bothered me that it was there at all, especially since I wouldn’t even be here if, when taken to its logical conclusion, he had his way. But still, it was there, and it’s not the first time it’s ever occurred to me. I just fight it off when it does. It’s part of the cultural fabric of which I am part (not just in NYC, but in CA, where I grew up).
He was also of a breed I periodically encounter, which is both interesting and depressing, which is what I’d call a Long Island Liberatarian Racist. I don’t even know if was from LI, but he might as well have been. Several people I know in that tribe wouldn’t call themselves what I just described, but it’s what they are, and they’re not bad people. They just have really odious politics. How do I put that together? I don’t want to be someone who cuts off my friends, who are often decent people, but when my friends directly or indirectly countenance racism, how do I stand by them? It’s a real struggle for me — I don’t like either side of it. Thank god I’m not on Facebook.
Apologies if this isn’t coherent, or isn’t morally sound. I’m trying to figure out where I stand with people who I know to be decent, but have indecent politics. This guy won’t be a friend, but he’s representative of people who I know who are. What do you do with this? Simply pulling away and saying I can’t be your friend because of what you believe doesn’t feel right to me, either.
Please don’t call me an asshole. I know you can, and maybe I am, but I’m looking for something I can use.
Thanks,
Ivan.
JanieM
@Catherine D.: @chris: @Steeplejack:
It depends where you are — I think particularly on how far north/south you are.
Go play at https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/, trying out different locations. E.g…..
For Augusta, Maine, it says < 1s difference between the 21st and 22nd, but 4s tomorrow and 9s the next day.
For Orlando, those differences are <1s, 2s, 4s.
For Edinburgh, it’s -1s, 6s, 15s. (N.b. the solstice was early on the 22nd in Edinburgh.)
thruppence
Just saw a guy in a “Don Jr. 2024: Keep America Great “ T-shirt. I couldn’t tell if it was a parody or just incredibly stupid.
Catherine D.
@JanieM:
It’s actually both – overall change in length of day depends on latitude. Sunrise/sunset times depend on longitude and local time zone. A floor wax and a dessert topping!
Baud
@Ivan X:
I have many thoughts and, unfortunately, don’t have time to develop them here. But I’ll say that if this guy activated your lizard brain, it might be best if you avoided people like that, just like we recommend people to turn off Fox News.
Baud
@thruppence:
If it’s a parody, it’s an incredibly stupid parody.
eclare
@thruppence: Stupid, always go with stupid.
Ivan X
@Baud: Well, he’s surely not the regular company I would keep, but I’m well practiced fighting off my lizard brain since I’ve been 15 and I could identify my own, unwanted, not believed in, prejudicial reactions. It’s just my lizard brain, it doesn’t own me. Would look forward to your more nuanced thoughts when you have the time.
eclare
I asked in the dead thread downstairs, has anyone seen Dolemite, Eddie Murphy’s movie on Netflix?
chris
@Steeplejack: Three seconds in Nova Scotia vs two seconds in Virginia (I think). Prolly the soshulism.
Mike in NC
We’re watching Season 5 (Series 5) of “Shetland” on DVD from Netflix. Fine police drama. They showed an unpleasant character whose pickup truck was plastered with Confederate battle flag bumper stickers inside and out. We were actually in the Shetland Islands in August and I’m pretty sure that would be about the last thing you’d expect to run into there.
chris
@Catherine D.: Nope, you’re right, mornings won’t get earlier for at least a couple of weeks. But for me the 4:45 sunsets are over, thank dog.
Mnemosyne
I should be decluttering the dining room, but instead I have cats piled on top of me.
Mike in NC
@eclare: We watched it a couple of weeks ago. Wife liked it but I hated it. After hearing “motherfvcker” about 5000 times, it gets a bit annoying.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
I’m even more in awe of Sean Rigby’s performance. He clearly studied James Grout’s diction and intonation and manages to reproduce it so well even though he doesn’t look like him at all (Supt. Strange).
Baud
@Ivan X:
I don’t know. Pride goeth before the fall, and all that.
Anywho, one quick note on your interlocutor’s argument. It makes no sense to ask where “multiculturalism has worked” and then exclude all countries as “young” as ours. Almost every country in the world was a more diverse country at some point in their history. In some sense, it’s worked everywhere except where it hasn’t, which tells us nothing.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
It’s pretty amazing how the movie ends not with the romance or a re-affirming song, but with that very dark social-problem number.
Ivan X
@Baud: Concur, and I dismissed his argument, not for those good reasons, but for the reason that it has obviously worked here, and “too young” is a silly argument.
chris
@JanieM: That’s a very cool site, thank you. I just learned that solar noon here is actually about ten minutes after noon. Damn, I think that means the Earth is round!
trollhattan
@Ivan X:
All I can say is once somebody demonstrates they will not budge from their malformed positions and opinions, then it falls back on us whether the relationship is worth maintaining. It’s possible to dance around politics and social constructs so some extent, but is it worth the stress it brings?
ThresherK
@Steeplejack: “My Forgotten Man” is purely Warners. It could only have come from the same studio which made all those semi-anti-hero gangster movies, and “I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang”.
Interpolations into musical movies or shows are usually an abomination, but I approve of “Pettin in the Park” and “Dames” and others into the 1980 stage version of 42nd Street.
Yarrow
@Ivan X:
Middle aged white guy blames racism on the black president? Yeah, you’re dealing with a racist. You can’t really counter his beliefs with facts and argument. It won’t work.
You might have luck with the “tell me more about that; I don’t understand it” method where you ask to explain their dumbass views and they get backed into a corner because they can’t answer them. Usually they just get mad. Very occasionally they see some of their argument is dumb.
Only you can decide if you want to be friends or friendly with these types of people. Some people can and do and others don’t and cut them off.
2liberal
@Steeplejack: vs @chris : the difference is probably due your respective latitudes.
JanieM
@Catherine D.:
I was responding to comments about the change in the length of day, not time of sunrise/sunset. So it’s not actually both.
eclare
@Mike in NC: Thanks! I’ll probably give it a go, the cast is stellar.
Mnemosyne
@Ivan X:
Multiculturalism worked pretty well in India and the Middle East until the British marched in with guns and forced their monoculture on everyone by force.
But that’s probably not what he wants to hear.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
The Roman and then Byzantine Empires were pretty multicultural and successful. They fell eventually, but all things must.
Mo MacArbie
@Ivan X: I’d think that a perception of being White American rather than simply American is the first stage of a broader conception of Americanness. Sure, it can go ugly if one’s reaction is to try to reassert the old order of the past. However, it’s also part of realizing that though the white (male) perspective has long seemed like the default state, it really wasn’t and can’t be going forward. We are bigger than that. I dunno, maybe that’s a way to pivot in the next such conversation.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Have you ever taken Rainmeter for a virtual test drive?
There’s also the built-in Windows weather app in your start menu, although it isn’t a taskbar thingie and in the past was buggy (I *think* those bugs have been ironed out but memory is fuzzy about that).
Splitting Image
@chris:
It’s caused by the exchange rate. The weak Canadian second makes the days shorter up north. That’s why the snowbirds winter down in Florida.
khead
I’m reading this while out so I can add more later. But this is a very serious tell.
Mnemosyne
Anyone else feel like trashing The Rise of Skywalker, or is it too soon? ?
I was hoping it would be good since I do love Star Wars, but since it wasn’t, I’m enjoying the silence of the fanboys who got exactly what they demanded and are discovering that what they wanted sucks.
debbie
My winter solstice candle burnt itself out just as Hannukah began. How cooperative!
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia: Inspector Gadget vs Sonic
Steeplejack
@chris:
Reasonable. I’m at 39° N, 77° W.
debbie
@germy:
WTF? Why would anyone do that to Dame Judi?
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
A clutter of cats, so to speak.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Agreed.
Barbara
@Ivan X: One thing you can ask about is his own ethnic background, or perhaps whether his ownlifeis “worse” as a result, and how exactly.
If he sees “white” as an identity it’s only because multiculturalism worked. Only a few of my great grandparents could have held a conversation with the others. Every angry sentiment expressed about immigrants today has some parallel to what was said 100 or more years ago.
And if Christianity can’t hold it’s own that’s not the fault of immigrants or people under the age of 30 or who ever else he blames for some abstract notion that things are not as good as they used to be because I would bet that things are pretty much okay for him personally. In other words, bring it back from the hypothetical to the actual grievances he has.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Inorite. Really powerful.
Lapassionara
@Yarrow: I second this suggestion. Asking questions is a good way to find out more about the basis of a person’s prejudices. Plus, I would like to know how someone can justify that kind of opinion about Obama.
Mnemosyne
@germy:
My favorite response in that thread was, “Props to her yoga teacher, tho.” ?
Steeplejack
@chris:
My solar noon was at 12:07 today. Just depends on where you are in your time zone (longitude). As you know.
ETA: Weird in the summer when my solar noon is at 1:00-something.
Chetan Murthy
@Ivan X:
(1) thank you for your long story. I’m sure it resonates with lots of people here..
(2) you’re not an asshole. And honestly, to whatever extent it’s possible, *somebody’s* gotta keep talking to these people who think and act like decent human beings, but have repulsive views — to try to change them. Because these are the sort of people who end up being “good Germans” when the bad times come. There’s a story about Heinrich Himmler writing the Nazi equivalent of an interoffice memo, complaining about how many letters he got from good Nazi Party members, asking for Himmler’s intercession in the case of some Jew sent off to a camp, who was that Nazi’s “good Jew”: maybe a relative, teacher, neighbor, whatever. And Himmler wrote [paraphrase of his words] “THERE ARE NO GOOD JEWS”. B/c he was sick and tired of getting such letters. The thing about people who vote to give repulsive and morally objectionable parties power, is that those people don’t need to personally commit morally objectionable acts — they can just vote for others who will commit them. Clean hands [“when I said send back all the undocumented immigrants, I didn’t mean my neighbor/teacher/husband/wife !!] Maybe that’s why I cut such people off (since Nov 2016): I can’t get past that Himmler story. And of course, all the examples from our own history of people doing the same. But this doesn’t change that, if nobody talks to them, they’ll just marinate in their prejudice and never be redeemed.
(4) We all have to watch out for our lizard brains, eh? I have some of that myself, when it comes to certain (ahem) religions and cultures to seem to lend themselves to misogyny.
(5) Everything the guy said is easily debunkable. But as someone once noted, there’s no point in going after the individual points, b/c there is an infinite line of such bullshit points waiting to be deployed. So just for instance,
(a) All the archeological evidence is that Rome was a very multicultural society. Mary Beard (IIRC) got untold vitriol for pointing this out, and noting that the DNA evidence from Roman garrisons on Hadrian’s wall [black, middle-eastern, etc DNA] was clear evidence of this multiculturalism. And if Rome doesn’t stand as a clear existence proof for the success of multiculturalism, I don’t know what else could.
(b) But even this retreat to multiculturalism is bullshit. The children of immigrants to America rapidly become Americanized to the point where they no longer have any traces of their ancestral cultures, except in a Disney-i-fied way. And this hasn’t changed since the late 19th century: the children of “eye-ties” and “micks” became Americanized pretty damn quick, as do {South,East}-Asians, Middle-Easterners, etc. At the limit, it takes two generations.
IMO the appeal of multiculturalism is as a bulwark against the oppression heaped on some ethnic groups by the majority society. Take away that opporession, and the multiculturalism becomes, as I said, Disney-i-fied (as in food/holidays/festive dress, but not much more).
Contra your interlocutor, in America, *everybody* wants to be “culturally white.” Because that’s what success is. We all want a good job, a nice house, our kids to go to good schools, take vacations, etc, etc, etc.
Everything else he spewed about is equally-easily refuted.
debbie
@Ivan X:
Someone who distinguishes “waves” of feminism has become mired in pointless details. WTF is it with waves? It’s a process; we live in a continuum; nothing changes overnight. That’s why we keep cycling between multiculturalism and tribalism. Hopefully, we’ll get it right eventually.
Personally, I would have disengaged with that feminism crap remark, but as I was walking out of the bar, I would have turned around and pointedly asked him exactly what good had ever come out of tribalism. And if I had to, I would answer for him: Not One Fucking Thing.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
“Great, now my dog wants to go.”
“TBF, have you ever tasted dame butt?”
zhena gogolia
@raven:
You didn’t think that tweet was serious, did you? I was playing piano a little while ago and had to stop in the middle of a song because the thought struck me that you really think Dame Judi Dench licks her butt in the Cats movie?
zhena gogolia
@germy:
Oh, that is so terrific. I remember that episode so well.
Steeplejack
@Splitting Image:
LOL. Well played.
zhena gogolia
@Ivan X:
What made the country “successful” in his sense was that it was built on the unpaid labor of black people, and their continued subjugation. You were drunk. Just chalk it up to that. ETA: and read the NYT 1619 Project. It’s online somewhere.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
I’m avoiding anything that even hints of a spoiler until I can see it sometime in the next week. Although I don’t know why. I have zero expectations (bordering on negative).
Butter Emails
@Ivan X:
Did you happen to refer this guy to Europe and note that his “white Christian culture” is in fact a variety of multiculturalism? That there are in fact a multitude of different white Christian cultures that were spilling each others blood before they even became Christian? That he himself in accepting some sort of “white Christian culture” has embraced multiculturalism and that his issue is that he’s simply to big of a racist prick and religious bigot to extend that same concept to non white people and other religions?
Chetan Murthy
@Steeplejack: I saw the first three (IV, V, VI) and none since. Does a character lose a hand in all the {pre,se}quels? Just curious. B/c I’m never gonna see any of them.
Butter Emails
@zhena gogolia:
You missed all the land and knowledge we stole from the people who were already here.
chris
@Steeplejack:I didn’t even know that solar noon existed. Something new every day!
Steeplejack
I have the Cowboys-Eagles game on in the background, and the announcers are sort of ragging on the Cowboys kicker because he missed at 53 yards. Jeez, back in the day [*cough* Lou Groza *cough*] that would have been a supernatural feat. Another reminder that I am a dinosaur.
lamh36
Sitting here watching The Witcher on Netflix. Have no idea what it’s about. Not much a fan of fantasy…there’s a reason why I could never get into GOT, but 1)I like looking at Henry Cavill, 2)I like a good storytelling 3)I like strong female characters 4)did I say I like looking at Henry Cavill? Even if he doens’t take his shirt off nearly enough… 5)folks been saying good things about it…so…
We’ll see how many eps I can get through…
Took me until ep 4 to figure out it the 3 plotlines are…
Yarrow
@lamh36: Did you enjoy SNL last night? Eddie Murphy killed it. Best episode in years.
zhena gogolia
Eddie Murphy’s Mr. Robinson was pretty good. The debate cold opener was horrible except for Maya Rudolph. They had Trump showing up in the middle and scaring everyone except Nancy Pelosi who then showed up. I don’t like the way they’re mythologizing both Trump and Sanders by having good actors play them.
rikyrah
Chetan Murthy
@Ivan X:
In order to deal with such people, you have to become -very-, -very- educated about history, economics, and politics. Because they’re very good at throwing out bullshit points, that it takes time and care to refute. And then just as you’re finished refuting one, they move on to another without batting an eye. It can get tiring and frustrating [even when you know the real story]. But it’s even worse when you don’t actually know the reality behind some point they make, b/c then you end up conceding what is still a bullshit point.
I’m with @khead: that the point about Obama is the real tell. He’s a garden-variety racist, period. B/c if there’s one thing we can say with crystal clarity about Obama, he bent over backwards to make white people feel safe. Bent. Over. Backwards.
I guess I could never imagine entertaining social relations with your interlocutor. But if I were to find myself in such a conversation, I’d start asking the person if they knew the stories behind the string of high-profile murders of black Americans by police and vigilantes in recent years. I’d make them defend every damn murder. And if they did so, well, you’d have your open-and-shut case that they’re stone racists. Given everything you’ve written, i’d expect that that’s how it’d go.
But really, if you want to maintain social relations with such a person, the only answer is to ban all politics. All. Of. It. And of course, discussion of any scientific subject that is politically fraught. So no climate change, green energy, opioid abuse, trade wars, etc.
Dan B
@Ivan X:
As a gay man who lived through Joe McCarthy and years of nightmares about being locked up, plus some terrible events I’m not able to argue with guys like this one. Plus my partners family has gone full FOX. Fortunately they don’t seem to want us to come to Christmas. When Obama was elected they gifted an Obama chia pet. They hate that we have installed solar, ductless heat pumps, and drive a Leaf.
They are stuck in “Tradition” so they hate change and believe in some crazed conspiracies. The only way they will change is having it forced on them. At least your guy didn’t seem to embrace sadism – if I’m reading that correctly. The sadists are the ones to disengage from.
I believe asking questions is fine but it must seem respectful. Many right wingers feel cornered if you ask the wrong question.
Also, did it feel like you learned much? It seemed to open yourself up to some introspection.
BTW I’ve been blindsided by people who abandoned me when they found out I’m gay, less often over the years and living in Seattle. It’s unnerving like grabbing a hot pan. We try to spend a lot of time with liberals and gay friendly people. When our neighbors, a black extended family thought that we were brothers it mase for a good laugh with our friends. Fortunately our neighbors were cool. That helped.
eclare
@zhena gogolia: I didn’t understand Trump’s earrings.
Jay
Chetan Murthy
Wine Cave Owner Said ‘It’s Not Fair’ That He’s Been Dragged Into Dem Fight:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/wine-cave-owner-warren-buttigieg
This WATB winery owner doesn’t seem to understand how Citizens United works! Money is speech, and when someone “speaks”, others get to speak right back. Don’t wanna get clapped-back? Then don’t open yer damn
walletmouth. WATB SMDH.Steeplejack
@Chetan Murthy:
Dunno. Just determined at lunch the other day with my pop-culture-connected friend that I am already a movie behind. I missed The Last Jedi (VIII). I did see The Force Awakens (VII), which I remember as a confused mess. But maybe it’s my memory that’s confused.
zhena gogolia
@eclare: I missed that. I wasn’t watching too closely.
Steeplejack
@chris:
Get back to me later and we’ll discuss civil, nautical and astronomical twilight.
Yutsano
Sugar cookie dough has been made. Waiting on the folks to tell me to come meet them for dinner, then it’s Mexican food for the first night of Hanukkah for me. Then probably just gonna veg at the apartment since I do have to work tomorrow. Not a bad evening overall.
Tazj
@TaMara (HFG): That’s the best, I also love that they got the dog a cute bow collar like Lily’s.
Jay
germy
Jay
Jim, Foolish Literalist
american christianity according to Failson McPoolboy
Jay
Steeplejack
@germy:
There’s an excellent American Masters episode on Sister Rosetta Tharpe. Apparently not available now, but worth watching if it comes up.
Chetan Murthy
@germy: @Ivan X: Oh ha, so many ways in which your interlocutor was so, so, so wrong. Here’s another! He thinks that American (white) culture is … white. But rock-and-roll was invented by black Americans. Like Sister Rosetta Tharpe, but lots of others. Hell, it’s a documented fact that Pat Boone’s career was basically whitewashing music written by black musicians. And then there’s that famous quote from Colonel Tom Parker saying (on seeing a black singer) that “if I could find a white boy who could dance like that ….”
Hell, all of Southern cooking is slave cooking, imported from Africa with slaves. Jazz. Hip-hop. So much of fashion comes from black culture. One could go on and on and on ….
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Should we tell him that Dems won that war?
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
I will instead give you advice: it’s 2-1/2 hours long and spits out plot points at a breakneck pace, so do NOT get a drink with your movie snacks.
The last half hour almost redeems it, but can’t pull it off.
chris
@Steeplejack: Those I’ve always known. My only excuse for the noon thing is that I never learned marine navigation.
germy
@Steeplejack: I remember seeing it when it first came out.
Extraordinary woman.
Jay
Yarrow
@lamh36: Well, here you go:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Not a huge Schumer fan, but every elected, and retired, and grassroots Democrat should tweet this out at the same time. Like noon eastern tomorrow. Even my on-line hermit self would get a twitter account.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: I barely follow it since I’ve never seen a Star War without Alec Guinness, but the online reaction has been as brutal as it was with Jar Jar Binks
Speaking of Sir Alec (as a British friend always corrects me when I mention his name) those of you with BritBox: Does it have original BBC Tinker Tailor and Smiley’s People?
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
You can still buy her albums — I was able to buy a digital version from Amazon a few years ago.
I don’t think you have to see “The Last Jedi” before you see “Skywalker,” but if you do decide to try and watch it, you should try to go into TLJ fresh and not seek out commentary about it beforehand, because all of the incels in the SW fan base HATED it and will drone on for hours about it. Some people had legit beefs (they didn’t like the humor, for one) but it’s hard to find the legit complaints among the incel howling.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Thanks, I’ll check out Rainmeter.
I do look at the temp in the Win10 start menu, but it’s not clear what source it’s using. It always seems to disagree with the Weather Network temp by a few degrees. Same with Google weather on my tablet and cell phone. I live in Falls Church, VA, but, to be more specific, I am in the Seven Corners neighborhood, which is actually just south of the city proper. So I don’t know how close the “reporting” station is.
Weather Underground does a good job of showing (and letting you select) specific weather stations, but I haven’t found a way to translate that into a taskbar icon.
Dan B
@Dan B: Ivan;
There’s another consideration on attempting to engage with racist / libertarian / etc. types. Yoni Appelbaum writes in The Atlantic that when a country’s center right becomes weak the far right expands with disastrous results. So your libertarian’s perspective has much weaker constraints. Engaging will probably have little influence until the GOP moderates. We know that is unlikely in today’s climate.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Okay, thanks. Good to know.
Yarrow
@Steeplejack: Have you tried Weatherbug? You can put it in the taskbar.
Dan B
@Jay:
We have friends and in-laws who were incarcerated in the camps. Some became activists. Others have stayed far away from activism or politics.
Jay
BTW, the fake Epoch Times accounts,
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fake_news
Epoch Times often winds to as retweets and cites not just in Doltus’s twits, but in ReThug mentions as well.
stinger
@Ivan X:
I have questions.
How does he define “successful”?
When exactly was this period?
I’m sure I’d have other questions once I knew his answers to these.
Steeplejack
@chris:
Solar noon is kind of just an oddity now, unless you’re doing 19th-century celestial navigation with a sextant (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Ivan X
I wrote a whole long thing that got eaten by technology failure (and user failure to anticipate and protect against that inevitable possibility). But I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. I wish I were more knowledgeable and quick witted, but I didn’t yield any ground, and I feel that an “everyday racist” like this can afford to hear from someone who can calmly say that they feel we are richer from our immigrants. (Meanwhile, I’m eating pizza across from a Muslim family, and remain in awe of how great this city and country can be.) Plus he said his girlfriend with him would be pissed because he talked politics, so that’s a plus.
lamh36
@Yarrow: totally killed it. Def one of the best SNLs in decades. Even brought some life to the weak azz Weekend Update
NotMax
@Yarrow
Steer clear of it. Not malware per se, but insidious enough to raise red flags. Rife with ads and one has to be alert when installing it so it doesn’t also install ask.com (and who knows what else at this point that will change some of your default settings) at the same time.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It doesn’t appear to. But I’m not great at searching.
Yarrow
@lamh36: He was awesome from the monologue all the way through to that crazy elf skit. #SantaKnew Old stuff, new stuff, all the other black comedians up on stage with him. Cosby joke – “Who’s American’s dad, now?” Just all of it. So good.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: thanks for looking– I’ll sign up eventually. Winters are made for those British detective shows, or vice-versa
chris
@Steeplejack: Celestial navigation was it when I was learning to sail back in the day. I didn’t learn because I never had a big enough boat to need it.
Yarrow
@NotMax: Thanks for the info. I don’t use it but know people who do. I’ll let them know.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks for the advice. If I watch The Last Jedi (which I have thought of doing) I’ll be going in fresh. I avoid all the “inside baseball” Star Wars whingeing. But whenever one of them comes out the whingeing proliferates all over, and it’s hard to avoid.
Jay
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some backlash to the TLJ backlash, because it was SO over the top.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Thank you for that link. Don’t see the film, unfortunately, but do get all the accompanying info, including a timeline and some other video clips.
Steeplejack
@Yarrow:
The name is familiar, so I think I looked at it in the past at some point, but I’ll give it a look. Thanks.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Also good to know.
Chetan Murthy
@Ivan X:
I’m a first-generation immigrant (born in Bangalore), and brown one. But I feel that the best litmus test, and the best way to -reach- the reachable, is not to start with immigrants, but with black Americans. They’ve been here longer than many, many, many white Americans, and most have some white ancestry. For any American to deny their full American-ness, and to deny that they are oppressed in manifold ways economic, social, and physical (police), is the most unambiguous sign of pure racist bigotry available.
Someone once said that slavery in America was the subjugation of one set of cousins by another set. They were right. And for anyone who claims not to be a racist, but expresses racist views, the answer is simple: have they read Ta-Nehisi Coates, Richard Rhodes, James Baldwin, or are they just arguing from ignorance and prejudice?
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Just saying its reputation falls on the skeevy side. Google search will yield more info.
Catherine D.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I just checked Britbox – no to George Smiley, but it does have The Sandbaggers.
Another Scott
@Ivan X: PZ Myers used to debate creationists and the like. He knows the science backwards and forwards. It didn’t matter. There’s always one more disingenuous ‘argument’ that comes up. He gave it up a while ago.
One of my mantras is: “Where you stand depends on where you sit.”. Without a common set of facts and baseline beliefs, it’s almost impossible to get someone to change their mind.
Life is too short. Find a better conversation partner. IMHO.
Thanks for the story. Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
Jay
khead
@Another Scott:
This is wrong. So wrong. Ivan X can use the person they are talking about to make a great many points in front of a larger audience if they want. You don’t even have to take the high road in engaging them. But cutting them out is a total waste.
Now, if THEY want to cut YOU out? Well, that’s a different story. I can go on about that too. But it’s important to make your point on the way out either way.
Tenar Arha
@Ivan First, you mentioned that:
In my experience that’s a tell for anti-semitism…pawning off social movements someone dislikes as supported by Jewish people. Especially since no one Jewish ever agrees on anything, & there’s still plenty of Temples where women can’t even participate in a minyan. If you have any “friends” who say stuff like that…I’d be wary of them.
Second, the problem with being friendly with bigots is when it doesn’t effect you directly, it’s almost too easy to remain sociable. And if they don’t want to talk to you about anything but sports, weather, & their grandkids it’s not like you’re going to be getting the in depth conversation you crave. Plus we know from research you can’t argue someone out of prejudice…instead you have to truly be invested in continuing to talk & be kind to them without losing yourself.
So, truly how morally centered do you feel? Because at some point you will have to draw a line & keep to it & without losing your temper. It could be big, like if your Temple decides to help hide someone avoid ICE, or it could be smaller, like asking them to stop telling you that a young man deserved to be killed by a vigilante etc. I should note, I’ve never found a way to get past that point. (I know from personal experience that you can reach it, where I’ve had a friendship on the line, & I just had to walk away).
@Ivan X: