Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

They don’t have outfits that big. nor codpieces that small.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

Is trump is trying to break black America over his knee? signs point to ‘yes’.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Come on, man.

Books are my comfort food!

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Black Jimmy Carter / Open Thread: Too Good Not to Front-Page

Reader Interactions

110Comments

  5. 5.

    General Stuck

    Why hasn’t he personally destroyed the Republican Party, and why hasn’t President McConnell been impeached? Obama is just weak tea, weak black tea.

  6. 6.

    WyldPirate

    Obama’s message machine didn’t get this message out when it counted.

    People who have lost their jobs are worried about way more than health care. They are worried about getting dinner on the table and finding a job. They’re worried about paying their bills. Health care does them no good iff they can’t pay the premiums NOW.

    The people see their neighbors and relatives either losing their jobs or scarede to death of losing the one they have.

    People don’t see the economy getting better—-except for the bankers on Wall St that got bailed out. They see their relatives and their own businesses going under while they see Wall St. getting their fattest bonuses ever.

    Obama’s message machine has been a complete failure during his Presidency. You can’t say once or twice months ago–“hey, everybody, you got a $400 tax cut and yiu couples got an $800 cut and not send themn a check. Those few extra bucks a month aren’t noticed.

    You can’t explain to the rubes that you swung short and gave ineffectual tax cuts on your “recovery act” and “saved” 3 million jobs. That doesn’t matter. They don’t care that we are not losing 800K jobs per month now. They know barely anyone is hiring! Many know that they are worse off than their parent’s generation and it’s getting worse.

    Keep making excuses for Obama, though. Good exercise of your keyboards and your lungs. It’s not going to change until there is progress on the economy and Obama figures out how to take credit for it and shout it at the top of his lungs everyday.

  7. 7.

    Alwhite

    Gawd I hate slide shows!

    Some of those things mentioned are actually impressive others a bit overstated. Still, when the choice is between syphilis and AIDS you have to vote syph & hope for better choices next time.

  9. 9.

    BR

    I thought for a good refresher on the Republican Galtian business overlord view of the world I’d watch The Smartest Guys in the Room. It’s nice to see how consistent these guys have been for decades.

  10. 10.

    Legalize

    Shorter WyldPirate:

    “If Obama had used the bully-pulpit, he could have gotten the public option.”

  11. 11.

    jwb

    @Legalize: Perhaps, but I will say that my first reaction to seeing this was “why the fuck was this not up and making the rounds in September?”

  12. 12.

    WereBear

    I’m kinda ticked myself that President Obama has trouble “getting the message out” but I don’t blame the person losing their voice trying.

    I blame the media.

    For the love of singlecelled Jayzus, what part of “corporate controlled media outlets” do some people not get?

  14. 14.

    El Cid

    David Brooks, New York Times columnist and avid meth smoker:

    This year, the Republicans seem modest and cautious. I haven’t seen this many sober Republicans since America lost the Ryder Cup…
    __
    …Republican leaders are also prepared to take what they can get, even if it’s not always what they would like…
    __
    The new Republicans may distrust government, but this will be a Republican class with enormous legislative experience. Tea Party hype notwithstanding, most leading G.O.P. candidates either served in state legislatures or previously in Washington. The No Compromise stalwarts like Senator Jim DeMint have a big megaphone but few actual followers within the Senate.
    __
    Over all, if it is won, a Republican House majority will be like a second marriage. Less ecstasy, more realism. The party could have used a few more years to develop plans about the big things, like tax and entitlement reform. But if a party is going to do well in an election, it should at least be a party that has developed a sense of modesty.

    Reality.

    Companies may have to make amends after midterm elections
    __
    Washington Post
    __
    Republicans have a message for the businesses that worked closely with the Obama administration over the past two years on key controversial issues: We won’t forget.
    __
    …[The pharmaceutical industry’s] top lobbyist at the time, Billy Tauzin, struck a deal with Democrats under which the industry would give up $80 billion in revenues over 10 years to help pay for the legislation. The Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, then spent tens of millions of dollars on television ads supporting the overhaul.
    __
    Tauzin’s strategy did not sit well with House Republicans. Their leader, John Boehner, who is likely to become speaker should the Republicans win control of the House, blasted PhRMA in a scathing letter.
    __
    “Appeasement rarely works as a conflict resolution strategy,” he wrote to Tauzin. “When a bully asks for your lunch money, you have no choice but to fork it over. But cutting a deal with a bully is a different story, particularly if the ‘deal’ means helping him steal others’ money as the price of protecting your own.”
    __
    Earlier this year, amid some members’ grumbling that Tauzin gave up too much ground to Democrats, PhRMA replaced him as its president with John Castellani, the former head of the Business Roundtable, an association of corporate chief executives. Tauzin’s departure should help PhRMA patch up any bad feelings among Republicans left over from the group’s support of health-care reform, according to James Thurber, head of the Center for Congressional and Presidential studies at American University.
    __
    And just in case, the trade group signed up as a major sponsor at an annual fundraising dinner last month to support Catholic education, a pet cause of Boehner.
    __
    “There’s going to come a time when pharma companies are going to want Republicans to take a tough vote for them, and they’re going to be like, ‘Why are we going to walk off a cliff for you guys? You were fighting against us,’ ” said one Republican lobbyist, who declined to be named in order to speak candidly.

    Sober. Experienced. Compromise. Second marriage.

  15. 15.

    WyldPirate

    @Legalize:

    Truth hurts, huh?

    People don’t know that they got a tax cut. That’s a fact.

    People don’t know what healthcare reform does, even the good stuff. Obama and his team didn’t work hard enough explaining. Yes they had an uphill battle, but they were not out at every opportunity talking about the good it does.

    They got their message snatched away from them and had it defined for them while==after Obama delegated things to Max Baucaus to play footsie with Snowe and Collins—the Tea Parties of August got cranked up. When that happened, there was not a rush to refute the horseshit. There was a tepid response, just like when Kerry got Swift-boated.

    But you Obots will defend him from even deserved criticism.

  16. 16.

    Legalize

    @jwb:
    I’ve seen all kinds of things like this. What I haven’t seen is the national media doing anything other than he-said, she-said regarding Obama’s record.

  17. 17.

    WyldPirate

    @El Cid:

    Sober. Experienced. Compromise. Second marriage.

    Hey man. Brooks was puffing on the good ganja when he wrote that column.

    No doubt that David Brooks lives in a parallel universe.

  18. 18.

    Uloborus

    I’m astonished at how many Democrats also seem to believe in the power of clapping harder.

  19. 19.

    Oscar Leroy

    Are you better off now than you were two years ago?

    Many leftist bloggers don’t look at things that way, of course, but most voters do. So today’s massacre has been a long time coming and is, in a sense, richly deserved.

    I’m off to vote, then canvass. Maybe the pre-election polls are wrong. We’ll see.

  20. 20.

    amorphous

    Does no one read their own blog? Mistermix has this linked in the post right below this one.

  22. 22.

    chopper

    lol, it’s all obama’s fault. his message machine, etc. etc.

    we’re gonna lose the house by a few seats and keep the senate. given that the party in charge almost always gets reamed in the midterms and we’re in the middle of a nasty-ass almost-depression, you’d expect the dems to get routed far far worse.

    shit, reagan got dicked hard in 82, his approval rating was in the 30’s and the economic outlook today makes the early 80’s look like the clinton boom. and obama’s blackity-black and has a funny name. yet his approval is in the 50’s.

    but it’s all about the optics, so expect weeks of ‘goopers surge’ and ‘dems refudiated’ and all that. either that or the dems do better than the pundits predicted and expect years of ‘they stole the election’.

  23. 23.

    WyldPirate

    @Legalize:

    What I haven’t seen is the national media doing anything other than he-said, she-said regarding Obama’s record.

    Making excuses does no good. The facts speak for themselves. The American people have no clue of the good that Obama did. It’s not all his fault. And yes, he has a media that works against him and is idiotic. He has opponents that lie with every breath.

    They made mistakes. They made lots of them. That is what a lot of the Dems like me are saying yet some of the Obama apologists wine and snivel and say “poor mean media”. Or sit here and stroke each others ego all day.

    We’re as outraged as you, but we haven’t drank thee Obot koolaid and we don’t see him as infallible.

  25. 25.

    sparky

    umm…seems to have a number of misleading statements in it.
    “issuing an executive order to close Guantanamo Bay”, for example. either the facility is closed or it isn’t. all this does is make people remember that it didn’t happen.

    and the next one is even worse and the phrasing is atrocious.

    pass this along at your own risk; a rather maladroit bit of agitprop.

  26. 26.

    chopper

    @Legalize:

    hey now, obama could have given numerous prime-time speeches outlining all the shit he did, speeches the media would immediately cut away from when sarah palin tweeted that there was a cat stuck in the tree in front of her house.

    followed by 3 days of coverage.

  27. 27.

    Legalize

    @WyldPirate:
    You can fill a book with things people in this country don’t know. Why? Because the news they watch tell them that some people think Obama is a communist; but some people think he’s a Nazi.

    But if only Obama had controlled the media like Bush did!

  31. 31.

    WyldPirate

    @chopper:

    but it’s all about the optics, so expect weeks of ‘goopers surge’ and ‘dems refudiated’ and all that

    I’m sad to say that this is right.

    It works a lot better if yo9u can keep the rubes occupied with their cable TV, Nascar, some wars, a little alcohol and people to hate. When they run out of these things and their lifestyle degrades, then watch out.

    They Rethugs and the oligarchy needed bright new bread and circuses for the Rubes–viola’ TeaParty and candidates old and young white guys would love to fuck and their 200+ lb wives and girlfriends would love to look like.

    Criticising Obama doesn’t mean that you want him to be unsuccessful. It’s discouraging to watch him shoot himself in the foot with messaging when that was his strongest campaign atribute.

  32. 32.

    Legalize

    @WyldPirate:
    Christ.

    No one here sees Obama as infalible. If you’ve ever read the posts here and the comments attendant thereto, you’d get the idea pretty quickly that most people think of Obama as “pretty good, way better than the alternative, could do better – so let’s encourage him to be better.”

    I’m sorry Obama didn’t get you your fucking pony. Maybe President Palin will address your concerns in her next tweet.

  33. 33.

    WyldPirate

    @stuckinred:

    but it’s all about the optics, so expect weeks of ‘goopers surge’ and ‘dems refudiated’ and all that

    I’m on your side. But I’m not a carbon copy of you. If you don’t like it, then go fuck yourself.

  35. 35.

    WyldPirate

    @Legalize:

    I’m sorry Obama didn’t get you your fucking pony. Maybe President Palin will address your concerns in her next tweet.

    Then why the fuck do you jump on people that dare criticize?

    There are tons of people here who spend their days making excuses for Obama. There are some here that don’t do that. Live with it. I’m not shutting up and I’m not doing anything wrong.

    There is a continuum of opinion in the world and in the Democratic Party and even here.

  36. 36.

    david mizner

    Didn’t make it through the laundry list, the need for which points to tonight’s results, but they might want to take down the one about his signing an executive order to close Gitmo within a year, since that’s a brag about a broken promise.

  38. 38.

    Linda Featheringill

    @WyldPirate:

    I recognize your economic concerns and in fact, my life reflects many of these concerns.

    But I think that our economic woes are part of a larger picture, a world-wide economic contraction. Nothing the US does is going to cure the system.

  39. 39.

    El Cid

    @Legalize:

    If you’ve ever read the posts here and the comments attendant thereto, you’d get the idea pretty quickly that most people think of Obama as “pretty good, way better than the alternative, could do better – so let’s encourage him to be better.”

    I’d agree with that all the way up to the end. I’m not used to seeing here suggestions that anything handled by the administration was in any way handled incorrectly, or that there was anything Obama possibly could have done more correctly. If something was done a certain way, then it was the best which could be done and circumstances prevented any other choice, and anything else was the fault of blue dogs and the media.

  40. 40.

    Uloborus

    I’m going to take Wyldpirate’s bitching as a good sign. Obama’s doing so well that the biggest complaint our whiny nihilists have now is that they wanted a better cheerleader.

  42. 42.

    Legalize

    @WyldPirate:
    Because you’re criticizing not on the merits, but rather on why Obama hasn’t forced the public to recognize his accomplishments. I’m saying, and so are some other people, that Obama’s record isn’t perfect; he isn’t infalible; he isn’t beyond criticism. But how many times is he supposed to say things like that health care reform doesn’t have anything to do with death panels, or that 40% of the stimulus package were tax cuts, or that 90-something percent of Americans have gotten a tax cut under his administration, for you to be happy?

    ‘Cause he talks about that stuff all the time. But the press spends its time wondering if the football game-sized crowd of geriatrics show showed up to watch Glenn Beck are a movement capable of taking on Obama.

  43. 43.

    jayackroyd

    This slide show reinforces the “Obama hasn’t done much” narrative rather than refutes it. The ones I went through are all small-bore, technical changes–and are often exaggerated, reflecting how the legislation was spun (see the financial reform slides) rather than what it did.

    It just feeds the tepid line the Dems have been running on–“Legislation is HAAARD” “We TRIIIEED” “Republicans are MEEEEAAAN”. You can, I suppose, stand proudly on these achievements, but I think independent voters will be underwhelmed, particularly as two wars of occupation continues, their health insurance bill just went up 20 percent, their 401Ks are still in the toilet, their friends have been laid off, and their house is worth 20% less than it was.

    You can, I suppose, say none of this is Obama’s fault. But tepid half measures are what he advocated. He signed on to the Dole/Daschle approach to health care very early on. His finance policies have been bankster focused instead of consumer focused. He ended the war in Iraq by leaving 50,000 troops (and no doubt the same number of contractors) there.

    Finally, down below Angry Black Lady says 1) that we should have expected this–this is what he ran on and 2) it’s not his fault that he hasn’t been able to do as much as he wanted to do. I happen to think 1) is correct–he ran as a conciliating, 3rd Way centrist committed to corporate-government partnership, rather than as a liberal committed to a more adversarial relationship between government and large corporations. But if you believe that, then you can’t believe he was prevented by the Republican senate minority in achieving exactly what he sought to achieve. You cannot logically believe both 1) and 2).

    Finally^2, the real issue is that we are ruled by a coalition of the GOP and “centrist” democrats in pursuit of policy goals that, in the end, are bad for ordinary Americans. Obama is, like the Blue Dogs, one of those who believe in the centrist ideology that organizations like Goldman, Verizon and Pfizer are the sources for expertise in policy matters. And so there is no cramdown for 1st mortgages, cable/internet/phone/cell service sucks, and Americans pay twice as much for drugs as everyone else in the OECD.

  44. 44.

    liberal

    @Legalize:

    If you’ve ever read the posts here and the comments attendant thereto, you’d get the idea pretty quickly that most people think of Obama as “pretty good, way better than the alternative, could do better – so let’s encourage him to be better.”

    BS. The apparent majority of commenters here make up excuses for Obama.

    My favorite is “but it’s Congress that legislates!!1!”

  45. 45.

    WyldPirate

    @Linda Featheringill:

    But I think that our economic woes are part of a larger picture, a world-wide economic contraction. Nothing the US does is going to cure the system.

    I’m dead in the midst of the woes and suffering fro all of them.

    We made the “system” what it is. Laissez-faire capitalism consumes itself. Thats whats happening now. There will have to be a correction–hopefully without chaos, war and suffering–or welcome to the new “new”.

  47. 47.

    Perfect Tommy

    Last night I was in the checkout line in the supermarket and staring at me from the cover of Newsweek was spray-tanned Boehner with the caption: “Change Comes … Again”.

    I felt physically ill … I can’t believe that people are stupid enough to allow these cretins back into power only two years later.

  48. 48.

    liberal

    @El Cid:

    I’m not used to seeing here suggestions that anything handled by the administration was in any way handled incorrectly, or that there was anything Obama possibly could have done more correctly. If something was done a certain way, then it was the best which could be done and circumstances prevented any other choice, and anything else was the fault of blue dogs and the media.

    This.

  51. 51.

    General Stuck

    @Uloborus:

    These idiots want to hide behind the loyal dem moniker just pointing out the facts with honest criticism, before the votes are counted while people are fixing to vote.

    My message to you pissant firebagging fools is that you are self absorbed pond scum and will be treated not as bad as winger trolls, but much worse in the days to come.

  53. 53.

    WyldPirate

    @Uloborus:
    No I didn’t. certain people here don’t like Obama criticized. They think they can bully anyone that does.

    Someone jumps on me, I’ll give back.

    Have I lost my temper here? Yes, everyone has. Sometimes I curse and raise hell to let off steam and have said as much. I’ve jumped on people and apologized because I was in the wrong.

    Read the posts. I didn’t provoke stuckinred at all.

  54. 54.

    El Cid

    @General Stuck:

    My message to you pissant firebagging fools is that you are self absorbed pond scum and will be treated not as bad as winger trolls, but much worse in the days to come.

    What does this mean? Angry replies on a blog comments page? Banning? Angry sad face icons? Insulting nicknames? From whence the warlike language for something that isn’t even real, like, a blog comments page?

    [I don’t count myself in that vague ‘firebagging’ camp, I’m pretty sure I’d have the same question no matter the political outlook of the person stating such.]

  55. 55.

    General Stuck

    I’m not used to seeing here suggestions that anything handled by the administration was in any way handled incorrectly, or that there was anything Obama possibly could have done more correctly. If something was done a certain way, then it was the best which could be done and circumstances prevented any other choice, and anything else was the fault of blue dogs and the media.

    Oh please. The bullshit has been steady stream of over the top criticism from the beginning, mostly by people who are simply opposed to Obama becoming president, and likely were before he was sworn in. And now, you are pointing out that defending against that hyperbolic, often semi insane Obama fail wankery, leaves the impression of not accepting legitimate criticism. Nice little scam, but no dice. The legitimate criticism from folks here, usually goes unnoticed and unchallenged because it was done in good faith, by people who still support our DEMOCRATIC president.

    Asshats like liberal have been pouring on the Obama fail bullshit from the primaries on. get real

  56. 56.

    WyldPirate

    @General Stuck:

    My message to you pissant firebagging fools is that you are self absorbed pond scum and will be treated not as bad as winger trolls, but much worse in the days to come..

    What’s the matter, Stuck? Having erectile difficulties?

    Or are do you have a little butt-hurt because Dems who criticised things like the too smallrecovery package, and the waste of time of negotiating with the Rethugs–among other things– was a waste of time were right?

  57. 57.

    General Stuck

    @El Cid:

    What does this mean?

    It means a steady stream of bullshit that if not confronted will likely turn into a river of bullshit. And no greater example of it arriving on the day of the election, before the votes are even counted. Opposing Obama is fine by me. But don’t piss down by back telling me it is well intentioned, or that it is raining.

    We are well past that stage, and apologizing for it will only get you included in Cole’s message yesterday. No refuge, no quarter here for that bullshit.

  59. 59.

    stuckinred

    This jerk shows up with a lecture and ends with

    Keep making excuses for Obama, though. Good exercise of your keyboards and your lungs.</blockquote

    Make excuses for him or her or whatever. I say fuck him.

  60. 60.

    Legalize

    @liberal:
    Please. There’s regular criticism of Obama on policy grounds. It just doesn’t get all of the attention that the constant drone of “Obama Fail!” has gotten since he won the nomination.

  61. 61.

    El Cid

    @General Stuck: No, as usual, you respond to comments I didn’t make.

    I am not at all disagreeing that there has been any range of nonsensical and/or hyperaggressive or even fetishistic abuse or blame for Obama.

    Perhaps my memory is terrible, and you can refresh it. What would be a case in which you suggested that something was done incorrectly, or insufficiently, or otherwise imperfectly, by the Obama administration, in such a way that was not explicable by the presence of blue dogs, the media, American culture in general, or any other exogenous factor.

    Perhaps you’re also permanently on patrol to label everyone who doesn’t appear to be exuberantly in love with your every comment as one of your firebagger enemies. In that case, you’re certainly wrong, and no matter any of your little tantrums, I’m not anything like what that type is supposed to be, nor have I wasted any time here blaming things on Obama.

    I’m presuming from your response, then, that you considered it to be directed against you. So maybe you can remind me of an example you have or would have given of the ability to meaningfully disagree with something, anything done by the administration which appears to be its own responsibility, rather than the result of external constraints.

  62. 62.

    El Tiburon

    The only thing worse than stupid fucking political ads is this stupid fucking discussion on whether Obama has done this or that.

    So what you are doing is setting up those of us (ahem – Firebaggers) who loudly and aggressively criticized the President as the fall guys. You have to have your villain and that villain is us. The ones who complained that Obama shouldn’t have sold the public option down the river or continuing Bush policies regarding civil liberties and so on.

    This way you all can point your little fingers in our faces and say, “We told you so, idiots. It’s YOUR fucking fault the Republicans won.”

    Well, go fuck yourselves. Like I’ve said before, politics ain’t like supporting your home football team. These guys are not the homecoming queen that you throw flowers at. They work for us and we need to hold their feet to the fire every single day.

    This doesn’t mean I’m not voting straight democrat and pleading with friends and family to do the same. I still dole out money here and there to certain candidates.

    But I am going to demand the leaders who we elected to do our bidding – do our goddamn bidding. I’m not giving a pass for doing an OK job. And if our bitching causes them to lose, then so be it. Don’t give us a reason to bitch. Don’t give the public option away. Don’t kiss ass to Wall Street. Stop drone attacks in Pakistan. End the stupid fucking war in Afghanistan. Stop using Bush-era state secret arguments to protect the torturers.

    Fuck.

  63. 63.

    Uloborus

    @WyldPirate: Sigh. Yes, you did. I can’t copy and paste well on the iPhone I have to use while helping transport voters to polling places, but the last paragraph of your first post is insultingly condescending, your ‘truth hurts’ you started the second with is confrontational and demands a fight, and you certainly use use ‘Obot’ and ‘Kook-Aid’ as insults. Being venemous and nasty doesn’t always involve profanity. Yes, you threw the first punch.

  64. 64.

    El Cid

    @General Stuck:

    apologizing for it will only get you included in Cole’s message yesterday

    Oh. I see. So, truly deadly consequences for the firebaggers. So, you all, you best watch your backs!

  65. 65.

    liberal

    @Uloborus:

    Uh… Legislative branch of government?

    Right. Congress legislates. And the President has no power whatsoever, nada, except to sign or veto legislation.

  67. 67.

    WyldPirate

    @General Stuck:

    That all you got?

    I knew I was right about your erectile difficulties.

    Limp in your hand just like your limp-ass, rhetoric, thought and one-liners.

  68. 68.

    stuckinred

    @El Tiburon:

    The only thing worse than stupid fucking political ads is this stupid fucking discussion on whether Obama has done this or that.

    Except YOUR fucking opinion huh?

  69. 69.

    liberal

    @Legalize:

    There’s regular criticism of Obama on policy grounds.

    The criticism regarding his greatest failures—not trying to get a larger, more effective stimulus, and doing very little to reform the financial system—is at best tepid.

    As Krugman pointed out re the stimulus this morning on his blog, To have avoided these losses, Obama would have had to have a stronger economic program — above all, a bigger stimulus. Could he have gotten one? If not, the White House was a poisoned chalice from the beginning. But the point is that he didn’t try.

  71. 71.

    General Stuck

    @El Cid:

    Obama shouldn’t have let the HC debate go on as long as it did/ Obama shouldn’t have hired the weasels Summers and Gheitner to head his econ team. Obama should cease and desist firing drone missiles into occupied buildings where no one is firing at our troops from them. These are but a few of my disagreements with Obama that I have stated on this blog. Though I don’t spend every day on every thread wanking them into pulverized horse shit.

  72. 72.

    liberal

    @General Stuck:

    …mostly by people who are simply opposed to Obama becoming president, and likely were before he was sworn in.

    Ignorant. I don’t know about the firebaggers and the Hillary lovers, but I voted for Obama in the primaries and general, and I gave him $1000 in the primaries and $1000 in the general.

    And now, you are pointing out that defending against that hyperbolic, often semi insane Obama fail wankery, leaves the impression of not accepting legitimate criticism. Nice little scam…

    Misdirection. If you want to wail about the idiots who run the media, fine. If you want to wail about the fascist, racist, teabagging scum who ask about the birth certificate, or are so ignorant of political economy as to actually think Obama is a socialist, fine. The criticism I’ve made and am making is that Obama blew the stimulus and sucked up to the banksters, and he didn’t have to do either.

  73. 73.

    General Stuck

    @liberal:

    My Krugman should run for president then, instead of wanking out declarations of shoulda coulda woulda from his ivory tower.

  75. 75.

    Uloborus

    @liberal:
    those are successes, not ‘greatest failures’, and Krugman is an expert on economics, not congressional politics. I suppose ‘Can we get a second helping?’ is tepid criticism, yes.

  77. 77.

    Uloborus

    @WyldPirate:
    I read it. I refer you to the end of your first post where you poked first. Yes, you started it, so don’t complain that people are picking the fight you actually picked.

  78. 78.

    liberal

    @Uloborus:

    those are successes

    Re the stimulus, depends on how you define success. Was it better than nothing? Of course. But it wasn’t nearly large enough, and it was made much more inefficient with the inclusion of all those tax cuts.

    But I know…Obama doesn’t legislate. He can only sign or veto legislation. Therefore, in our reality here, there was no way he could have even tried for a better stimulus package.

    Not.

    not ‘greatest failures’

    FinReg isn’t entirely a joke. But mostly. I’d give it a C+.

    and Krugman is an expert on economics, not congressional politics.

    Ad hominem. And Krugman predicted well in advance that (a) the stimulus wouldn’t be nearly large enough, and (b) the political effect would be that the mainstream would perceive the stimulus as having failed, and there’d be no second chance.

  79. 79.

    Elie

    @WyldPirate:

    You forget that the point of this is not about Obama. It is us — for us and about us.

    No one can make us make good choices or have patience for doing complex things. If we are immature and unable to grasp what it takes to wage a war (and this is a war) and place our context for change into unusable and inacurate context — like Obama’s “message machine” — we are bound to be unhappy in the short term. Do you think that Lincoln had a message machine? The civil war took several years and the North lost the first one and a half. Lincoln was called a baboon by McClelland, his lead general. Lincoln paid the ultimate price for keeping the union together and freeing the slaves (remember that little important milestone?)

    If you keep your eyes up and your heart in line with your values, you have the strength to move forward and do what has to be done. If your wins and losses are tallied in the short term, you have nothing but bitterness and loss cause the short term is all about the work without much glory.

    You should read more history. It will improve your attitude. I suspect you don’t want your attitude improved, though. Just sayin…

  81. 81.

    General Stuck

    @liberal:

    why don’t you collect all these tired leftist talking points and put them in a newsletter, instead of slinging them daily against this wall hoping for something to stick and cause all the obots to see the light only you and other like minded independent thinkers can see.

    We laugh at you liberal, and when you waste our time, we mock you.

  82. 82.

    liberal

    @General Stuck:
    You can criticize him all you want, as long as the criticism is thoughtful and not moronic blithering about how dare he criticize Obama.

    Here are three criticisms I have of Krugman:
    (1) Like almost every economist, he bought into the free trade bullshit.
    (2) Thinks the Swedish bank nationalization plan is a good one, even though it didn’t force bondholders to take any haircuts.
    (3) Thought there was no way that speculators could interfere with the spot price for oil, when in fact (IIRC) the spot price isn’t really a spot price anymore.

  83. 83.

    liberal

    @General Stuck:

    We laugh at you liberal, and when you waste our time, we mock you.

    Well, at least I’m not of low enough intellect to have typed something as absurd as My Krugman should run for president then, instead of wanking out declarations of shoulda coulda woulda from his ivory tower.

  85. 85.

    BeeBop

    @El Cid: What it means is that General Stuck will defend Obama’s Deficit Commission when it recommends cuts to Social Security (that Obama will agree to) by arguing that he had the commission forced on him. Which wasn’t the case, but it will give GS the opportunity to toss out watb acronyms and other insults because that’s the best he can do.

  86. 86.

    General Stuck

    @liberal:

    It was a metaphor moron. a metaphor to any and all wankers that believe policy is proposed in a vacuum, and have little or no conception about the politics of policy and getting that policy passed into law, and apparently don’t care to know. this is Krugman, and you, amongst many others. imho.

  89. 89.

    El Cid

    Speaking of the dark master, K’Thrugman comments on the pundit flung-about notion that Obama didn’t ‘focus’ enough on the economy or was wrong to prioritize health care.

    If there’s one piece of conventional pundit wisdom that annoys me most, it’s the constant refrain that Obama was wrong to pursue health care, that he should have focused on the economy instead.
    __
    For the question people saying this never answer is, what would that focus have consisted of?
    __
    Yes, Democrats would be in better shape if the economy were in better shape. Duh.
    __
    So when you say Obama should have focused more, what policies are you talking about? A bigger stimulus? As far as I can tell, almost no pundits are saying that. So what other concrete policies do they have in mind? I have never gotten an answer.
    __
    The notion seems to be that if Obama had spent the past 20 months going around with furrowed brow, saying, “I’m focused on the economy”, this would have (a) somehow created jobs (b) made people feel better about 9.6 percent unemployment.
    __
    Look, it might have been slightly better if Obama had acknowledged the economy’s problems more forthrightly, rather than continuing to insist that the ARRA was doing just fine. But that’s not about focus — and not at all opposed to doing health reform too.
    __
    What’s crucial to remember here is that economic policy is about actually doing things, not about saying “Message: I care.” A bigger stimulus — and, importantly, one that wouldn’t fade out just in time for the midterms — would have mattered. “Focus”, not so much.

    It’s one thing to disagree about how large the stimulus could or should have been, or how it should have been discussed with the American people. But to listen to the vast majority of pundits who think the stimulus failed who also think Obama should have done ‘more’ on the economy, it’s a sick joke.

    Not to mention, something tells me that had Obama not used the Democrats’ historic majorities in both houses to pass health care (insurance) reform, something always promised (details left aside for the moment), then we’d be hearing about how, well, yeah, the economy is really harmful to Democrats, but if only they could have gotten something through like health care, they might have been okay.

  90. 90.

    General Stuck

    @El Cid:

    Obama maintains historically high approval marks at this stage compared to other presnits at this stage. I contend the reason dems are facing a really bad election is two reasons. Lack of job growth, and passing the HCR. Because passing HCR, even with flaws has created untoward rage in the right wing, as universal health care was their last stand against finishing the New Deal circle FDR began. And pissed off people vote more in mid terms especially.

  91. 91.

    WyldPirate

    @Elie:

    You forget that the point of this is not about Obama. It is us—for us and about us.

    I did not forget this. It is one of the things I’m most incensed about. The bankers and Wall St. get off, the little people get hosed.. eighty billion dollar deals with pharma to get a doubling of the patent lengths on new biologics patented as meds.

    Escalating in Afghanistan wasn’t really a good move, either.

    But you know who generally suffers for these moves? The little guy. I thought Obama would do more and wouldn’t cut the Banksters slack while screwing over Union contracts in the bailout of GM.

    No, I’m not happy now. I am cynical and I don’t see shit getting better. I have seen my economic situation go downhill for 30 years. It wasn’t due to a lack of work or a lack of education, either.

    I won’t deny Obama is far better than the “alternative” we had back in Nov 08. But some of the shit he has done hasn’t been as helpful as it could have been.

  92. 92.

    Judas Escargot

    @WereBear:

    For the love of singlecelled Jayzus, what part of “corporate controlled media outlets” do some people not get?

    Noam Chomsky is fat. Or something.

  93. 93.

    Brachiator

    @WyldPirate:

    Keep making excuses for Obama, though. Good exercise of your keyboards and your lungs. It’s not going to change until there is progress on the economy and Obama figures out how to take credit for it and shout it at the top of his lungs everyday.

    Yawn. What else ya got?

    @El Cid:

    “There’s going to come a time when pharma companies are going to want Republicans to take a tough vote for them, and they’re going to be like, ‘Why are we going to walk off a cliff for you guys? You were fighting against us,’ ” said one Republican lobbyist, who declined to be named in order to speak candidly.

    Great quotes. Americans are hurting for jobs, but the pharma and other companies are reminding the GOP what their main priorities should be. This kind of thing should have been part of Democratic Party Commercials.

  95. 95.

    General Stuck

    @BeeBop:

    Ah the catfood commission canard is the next prog poutrage on queue. You guys ought to set a schedule so we can prepare for the manufactured bullshit meme of the day. Today seems to have set the left wing juke box on automatic.

    Clue, there will be no drastic or gutting of SS, there was never even the possibility of it, but just in case, Pelosi stacked the commission with her troops to oppose it, and saw to it, any voted on resolution on the CC findings would be non binding

    Listen, I realize trolls got to troll, and deserve their own thread. So I will leave youze dudes and dudettes to chew off your own tongues on a thread dedicated to such activities. I am going to watch the results without blaming anyone, including internet progressives, except for any idiots that would vote republican these days. They are floor flushed fools to blame mostly, along with dems that didn’t vote, and all you did, I trust. So my hat is off to you for that, at least.

  96. 96.

    RP

    Christ…we really have become a nation of whiners. The tea baggers whine that Obama is a muslim, socialist, fascist who’s coming to steal their guns and medicare. The left bitches and moans that he hasn’t been JFK, Lincoln, FDR, Marcus Aurelius, MLK, and Winston Churchill rolled into one supreme being in his first two years.

    Let’s take a step back, shall we?:

    – We HAVEN’T fallen into a major depression so far.

    – Our financial system HASN’T collapsed.

    – Taxes are still really low by historical standards (too low).

    – The war in Iraq appears to be winding down.

    – Obama and the Dems passed the most significant healthcare and financial reg legislation in decades.

    – Obama appointed two well-qualified women to the Supreme Court.

    – Most importantly…for all of the doom and gloom on both sides of the aisle, life has gone on and things are still fairly normal. Yeah, the economy sucks. But there’s no way in hell Obama was going to fix that in two years. Things could be a LOT worse.

    So stop whining and do something productive.

  98. 98.

    El Cid

    @General Stuck: The problem with that argument is that any sufficiently strong program, whether on health care or jobs, may have ‘provoked’ the same wrath. Before health care even began, the lunatic screams over the ‘stimulus’ had already begun.

    So, New Deal holding line or not, some larger and particularly more visible ‘stimulus’ project (the wonderfully clinical name used instead of something comprehensible like ‘jobs’) would have inspired the same TeaTard / ’90s militia movement resistance that Obamanazicommiecare was used to inspire.

    However, the point was about the punditariat concluding that if Obama hadn’t prioritized health care it would have allowed for a greater focus on the economy, while the same punditariat overwhelmingly opposes the stimulus and flatly lies about it being $787 billion in spending when, what, $300 billion were tax cuts.

    My point was that I am sure that the exact same punditariat would be blaming the failure of the administration in passing HCR for the dour Democratic outlook had Obama not chosen to prioritize it (i.e., historical moment wasted, etc.).

  99. 99.

    Legalize

    @WyldPirate:

    I won’t deny Obama is far better than the “alternative” we had back in Nov 08. But some of the shit he has done hasn’t been as helpful as it could have been.

    Yet here you are.

  100. 100.

    General Stuck

    @El Cid:

    The stimulus was about half, or thereabouts, a funding for a laundry list of long term progressive causes in things like alt energies, medical delivery systems etc…. If there is a fault on Obama, and I think it is fair to level some fault, was that he sold it for short term stimulus, seemingly believing the economy would rebound faster than it has, and taking for granted he could easily get the wingers to go along with more short term stimulus spending later on. That was a misread, imo. But dissing the temp tax cuts to the bottom end of the econ ladder is bogus imo. Stimulus is simply defined as injecting federal money into the economy, and those tax cuts likely got spent quickly, therefore stimulative. As for getting a bigger stim bill, I just flatly disagree, and I have read Krugman admit this was likely the case. Still the biggest discretionary spending bill in history, here.

    My point was that I am sure that the exact same punditariat would be blaming the failure of the administration in passing HCR for the dour Democratic outlook had Obama not chosen to prioritize it (i.e., historical moment wasted, etc.).

    Well yea, that’s what they do. As far as gauging right wing anger and enthusiasm to vote, I sill believe HCR was a deep body blow to conservative ideology like few other things, though you are correct the nutters would be fired up about most anything a dem president does, and Obama’s blackness hasn’t done anything to dampen down the tea tard anger. Quantifying all this is impossible, but can be speculated on. But we probly ought to wait till the votes are counted before assuming anything.

  102. 102.

    El Cid

    @General Stuck:

    But dissing the temp tax cuts to the bottom end of the econ ladder is bogus imo. Stimulus is simply defined as injecting federal money into the economy, and those tax cuts likely got spent quickly, therefore stimulative.

    Although I have disagreements about the stimulative power of those tax cuts, I was pointing out that calling it $787 billion worth of spending was and is a lie, one which Republicans and pundits either know or should know very well.

    Without pointing out that 40% of the ‘stimulus’ (I hate that name) was tax cuts an entirely false picture is portrayed, in which the holy mantra of tax cuts was fulfilled, but the roughly $500 billion in spending is portrayed as $800 billion in government spending.

    It really should have been described as (with huge rounding here) $500 billion in government spending and $300 billion in tax cuts. Repeatedly. So much that even our lying and stupid pundit class would have had a bit harder of a time repeating the $787 billion in new spending.

    Sure, it has the same net financial impact on budget deficits, but that is not the same as labeling it “spending”.

  103. 103.

    General Stuck

    @El Cid:

    Sure, it has the same net financial impact on budget deficits, but that is not the same as labeling it “spending”.

    Now I understand the point you were making, and have no disagreement with it whatsoever. Especially as it involved payroll taxes if I remember correctly.

  104. 104.

    gogol's wife

    @liberal:

    You don’t have to run for president, but you shouldn’t criticize him unless you acknowledge the political realities he is dealing with. Krugman almost never does. He just keeps giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

  105. 105.

    bjacques

    We are going to get a haircut.

    But I think we’ll keep the Senate and with enough seats that it won’t be worth Lieberman’s while to jump the aisle.

    If we manage that, it won’t be a repeat of 1994. And I can live with that.

  106. 106.

    Brachiator

    @El Cid:

    Without pointing out that 40% of the ‘stimulus’ (I hate that name) was tax cuts an entirely false picture is portrayed, in which the holy mantra of tax cuts was fulfilled, but the roughly $500 billion in spending is portrayed as $800 billion in government spending.

    Great point.

    The Obama Administration went to some trouble to set up a web site that provided a huge amount of detail about where the stimulus money went “Recovery.gov. Track the Money.”

    The site is more dynamic than CBO reports, and still many in the media couldn’t be bothered to look at the actual data when they could more easily make stuff up.

  107. 107.

    Elie

    @WyldPirate:

    Wyld:

    You are looking at the game in the first quarter, microdissecting each play as though the game can actually be “won” in the first quarter.

    Take a longer view and read more history, as I recommended in my previous comment to you. You will be a lot happier and have a more fundamentally functional understanding of where we are.

    Or don’t, as you may wish.

    Its boring however when someone keeps carping about why Obama can’t seem to keep the ships from falling of the edge of the world (ya know its flat doncha, according to those who “know” but never bother to change their beliefs with facts).

  109. 109.

    Kerry Reid

    @WyldPirate:
    And how much work did you do to highlight the administration and Congress’ achievements? Or did you opt for the “sit in my poopy diapers and cry” alternative?

    Nothing in life is ever gonna make you happy, the world was never meant for one as beautiful as you, go home and bite your pillow, whatever.

  110. 110.

    Kerry Reid

    @WyldPirate:
    Yes — and some of that “opinion” includes conservative Blue Dogs who are immune to the charms of the presidential “bully pulpit,” which somehow never registers with the Firebagging Fucktards.

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