For my check from Move-On and George Soros. WTF over?
Also, I respectfully request the DNC’s witness-protection program take steps to keep me safe. They seem to have done a marvelous job hiding Lloyd Bentsen* and Walter Mondale, so I think they could tuck me away somewhere out of sight. Rumor has it there is an underground railroad to France. Or Berkeley. Whatever.
And will someone tell Howard Dean to limit the emails to 10 a day and not to scream as much. Enough already.
*** Update ***
I had completely forgotten that Lloyd Bentsen died earlier this year.
Pb
First we’re taking you to Berkeley! And then to San Diego! And then to Seattle! And then to Canada! And then to France! And then to John Kerry’s chateau! Yeeeargh!
capelza
John…you didn’t know? We have to GIVE George Soros money.
But if you can make it Oregon, you’ll be safe. We have the mountains and liberals here can pass for conservatives (if you avoid the cities.) We’ll even let you keep your guns…but you’ll have to get your own tag if you want to go hunting with us pal.
fester
John — it takes a while for George to write all of his checks. I’m part of the vast left wing conspiracy and I am still waiting for my check for the past month to clear. Just a hint on how to get Payroll’s attention:
Get naked, smear yourself in honey, run down to Dupont Circle and sing Frere au Jacque in a snooty Parisian accent… and then make out with at least two male Republican staffers… if you are desperate for the cash that is a good way to get Payroll to notice you.
:)
Dan
John, you should know, you don’t get a check…all the money goes to the collective. Remember we’re commies. :)
Dan
oops, forgot..PINKO commies. Sorry.
Bombadil
Uh, John — you might want to check this out.
Mr. Bentsen passed away last May.
yet another jeff
Godless pinko commies.
ThymeZone
Great post.
Anyway, before you join up with Dems, John, you might want to keep in mind that Dems fight among themselves like rats.
Like rats, I tell you.
It’s no picnic. Well, except in the sense of rats at a picnic, and the food, and the rats eating the food, and so forth.
Keith
And Walter Mondale was recently seen in the TV movie “Path to 9/11” playing the role of Madeleine Albright.
Anonymous Jim
I usually come here by linking from The Moderate Voice. I just refreshed and noticed that they had moved you from “Right” to “Center”.
Andrew
There’s no better way to hide, really.
Rick Taylor
I believe you have to kiss Koss’s ring before the checks start coming; there’s a ceremony this weekend.
By the way, you’ll like Berkeley. Yes there are a lot of pan handlers, buts there’s also a lot of very good inexpensive places to eat, and some great bookstores.
–Rick Taylor
SeesThroughIt
I was going to make some sort of joke here, in the first post in the thread, Pb came with the POtD, so there’s really no sense in piling on.
Jon H
“I had completely forgotten that Lloyd Bentsen died earlier this year.”
That’s what you’re supposed to think.
It’s amazing what they can do with plastic surgery these days. Let’s just say Madonna will be surprised when she finds her new child checking the FOMC’s press releases.
Steve
I saw Walter Mondale announce Minnesota’s votes at the Democratic convention in 2004. I mean, he’s such a nice old man, and it was totally like watching my grandfather. He was like “The great state of Minnesota awards all of its delegates to-” and then he got confused and someone had to help him out. And he’s still probably more in touch than Cheney.
Bombadil
John, don’t be so greedy. You’re getting positive links from (among others) DailyKos and Crooks & Liars, you’re getting backhanded links (but links!) from Charlie Pierce. Traffic is coming in. These things build slowly. Emperor Soros has his ways of making things happen; you don’t want to rush it, or you’ll queer the deal.
Perry Como
Keep it gay! Keep it gay! Keep it gay!
Perry Como
btw, it’s billionaire George Soros.
chriskoz
John, you don’t get your checks until you have submitted your proposal for plans to help destroy America.
Some suggested ideas…
Plans to bait a Republican congressmen into fondling children. (complete with “cover-up” lies for the Republican leadership)
A list of racist statements you will have a Republican candidate say
Ways Democrtats can lose the war in Iraq even faster
The name of your Gay spouse to be
Once your idea has been submitted and approved, the money will start to roll in. (Didn’t you read your “New Members” guide? All this is clearly documented in section 13.5)
Ryan S.
How bout some good news for a change.
jcricket
Richard Mellon Scaife’s billions? Gold.
George Soros’ billions? Nazi (appeaser) gold.
Remember, Soros “figured out a way” (read: sold his own family to the Nazis) to survive the Holocaust, so his money is tainted now.
You don’t want Nazi money do you John? It’s bad enough you’re objectively pro-Hitler-youth-camps, isn’t it?
Warren Terra
In addition to the above note stating Mondale at the Dem convention in ’04, it is worth noting that following Paul Wellstone’s tragic death during the ’02 campaign, Mondale was drafted to try to salvage the Senate seat. His candidacy went over like a lead balloon, and left us with that excrescence upon the national polity, Norm Coleman.
Mind you, Bentsen, who after all served as Secretary of the Treasury, if without any great distinction, was more prominent and active following his national rejection than were, say, Jack Kemp, Gerald Ford, and Bob Dole – combined. At least, if one assumes that celebrity golf games and television advertisements don’t count. Mondale, has been less visible, of course, and Dukakis still less. Even (especially?) here in Boston nobody seems to care what Dukakis has to say, though he has a nice office and gets quoted in the local news every month or four.
capelza
Threadjack…Kline, the AG of KS got the medical records.
Pooh
“I have in my hands an envelope with the names of 200 abortion sympathizers”
capelza
Pooh..I did a wiki on McCarthy, man, it is scary…a lot of the same crap being spewed. Frightening.
Steve
Imagine what the Democrats could do with this if they had any kind of noise machine like the GOP. Heck, imagine if they actually cared enough to make a stink.
Even a lot of pro-life people wouldn’t want the government sniffing around medical records. Some of them might be extremely reluctant.
capelza
Has Limbaugh piped in on this? :P
Perry Como
You can smoke Oxycontin and Viagra?
capelza
I’m sure you can..rolled in a nice Cuban.
{õ£õ}
btw John,
there is also better pussy on the Left Bank…
and if u swing the other way, we got better that too.
Perry Como
Only if she’s younger than 14.
The Other Steve
Looks like the mercs are cutting and running
via tpm
capelza
Dominican!
Darrell
From what little I’ve read, Kline asked for medical records of impregnated girls under the age of 14 (as in 11, 12, and 13 year old girls) to prosecute child rapists.. and records on late term abortions to enforce that law. On the child rapist investigations, it would seem only the most extreme would oppose those efforts. On the second part, late term abortions, how else to enforce that law without medical records?
What am I missing here, that would make this such a winning issue for Dems, if they would only run with it?
Pooh
Link?
John S.
I don’t know, but since you like pie that means you are obviously well informed on culinary matters.
So I say you’re not missing a thing!
Perry Como
Can you hyperlink stuff you pull out of your ass?
Dave
All you are going to get is some Op-Ed piece for the Washington Times or NRO.
tBone
Yeah, but TinyURL is recommended. Unless you’re into that.
Darrell
Before I post a link, I want an idea as to how ill-informed you lefties are on this “winning” issue for Dems. What information in my post do not believe is true?
Let me guess.. Kline is on a fishing expedition looking to put all abortion doctors out of business is what you’ve been told to believe, right ‘independent’ thinkers?
craigie
Ok, I get it. You guys pay Darrell to come in here and be the straight man.
This shit wouldn’t be half as funny without him standing here, patiently explaining “No, Who’s on first. What’s on second” over and over…
And then you tie his shoes together, and he falls over.
Pooh
I’m just curious how one gets the medical records of only those who are underage without actually looking at the records…Unless he’s going the other way and just trying to get all the medical records of every underage Kansan woman. Which is also sorta creepy…
matt
Yet another Republican has had enough:
matt
darn: dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-schaeffer_01edi.ART.State.Edition1…
Steve
Well, obviously, if you serve a subpoena for a certain subset of medical records then the recipient is in deep shit if they fail to comply. However, as you know, the government doesn’t typically get to rummage through your private records just by saying “gee, I’m curious if a crime might have been committed.” There’s this notion called probable cause.
Echtheow the Geat
Who should I kill next? A Pict, or a Slav? Where should I launch my next expedition, to the craggy islands to the west or the swampy pine forests to the south?
Who should I kill next?
Darrell
When records from the abortion clinics are turned over, names of the girls and women who had the abortions are redacted.
How can you enforce late-term abortion laws without access to medical records? Please enlighten me as to how that would be possible. And can we all agree that going after sexual predators of children is a good thing? Steve asserted that Kline’s access to these records would be a winning issue for Dems if they just had the noise machine to make a stink over it. I fail to see how Kline’s actions are unreasonable.
Furthermore, we hear over and over and over how infrequent late term abortions are, and how even then, they are almost always out of medical necesity. That is a fair characterization of the left’s rhetoric on late term abortion. So if it’s really so rare as is claimed, and only then under medical necesity, then this investigation shouldn’t slow down access to abortions in the least, right?.. while at the same time nabbing some child molesters.
Pooh
Substitute “guns” for “abortion” and we’ll see.
TenguPhule
I believe it is called a right to privacy. This concept may be foreign to Darrell, who is undoubtedly turning over his own medical files to Kos since he has no fear that this information may be misused by the other side who has an agenda hostile to Darrell’s continued trolling.
Area Man
No comment.
Darrell
Aren’t gun sellers’ records routinely examined now to make sure they aren’t selling to felons or minors?
And if so, that would undercut your point wouldn’t it?
TenguPhule
Unless sold at a gun show which doesn’t require that. And how nice for the gun makers who can’t be held responsible for what happens.
Have some more pie, Darrell. Maybe you’ll find your way back to the topic.
Darrell
Again, how can anyone verify if late-term abortion laws are violated without seeing medical records? Impossible. And why not investigate pregnancies of 11, 12 and 13 year old girls, where a high probability exists that they were abused by an older male? Please explain.
The names of the girls and women who had the abortions are redacted from the records turned over to investigators.
What gets me about the left, is that they seem to always react in such mindless knee jerk fashion. In this case, portraying Kline as the big bad wolf come to ‘fish through’ medical records of anyone who visited an abortion clinic, when the truth of the matter is so different.
Area Man
Neocons don’t believe in the right to privacy until they do.
Rush Limbaugh’s medical records, George Allen’s criminal record, etc.
Darrell
I think that is so rational and ‘reality based’ to hold gun makers responsible for what happens. It’s their fault right? Can we hold beer mug manufacturers responsible for drunk driving accidents and spousal abuse too?
Just curious as to how far out there some of you lefties really are.
chriskoz
The Darrell tag line has made an appearence.
BTW Darrell…. still waiting to hear what you consider to be the “real problems” within the GOP.
Area Man
BTW Darrell can you provide a definitive link to this whole “11, 12 and 13 year old girl” business? My understanding of this issue is a tad murky.
Unlike my understanding of regulations governing the tax-exempt status of churches.
TenguPhule
How can we verify you are not smuggling state secrets out of the country without dissecting your brain to see what’s inside? Impossible.
And why not drag out a strawman while you’re at it? The problem is that who says it will STOP at only underage pregnancies? On the word of a Religious Pro-coathanger Republican?
And if you think that prevents identification from a fishing expedition then you have a lot to learn about nosy government officials.
Yes, how dare those leftists stand up for children who don’t want their names and photos plastered in scandal rags across the state and then attacked by loving Christians for the crime of aborting blastocysts. Yes, the outrage of letting the people decide for themselves if they want to let others know about what is their own private matter.
So let us know when you’re going to hand over all of your personal data to Big Brother. After all, if medical records are not a concern, silly little things like your bank records and social security number are nothing to worry about, right? You *trust* the people who’ll look at it, right?
Darrell
I’m sorry, did I neglect you chriskoz? Because you are always such a thoughtful, informed and engaging debater.
“Real” problems with GOP include wild overspending, severe mismanagement in Iraq with little accountability, and idiots like Bill Frist in leadership positions. Those are some of the ‘real’ problems I see. Thing is, Dems are most definitely not the solution.
Steve
Except you’re the one who’s wrong on the facts. Amusing how you admit that you haven’t read very much at all about this situation, and yet it’s the other guy who’s having a knee jerk reaction.
For starters, the Republican AG demanded the FULL, UNREDACTED medical records of these women and girls who had abortions. You keep spinning it by saying “only redacted records are going to be released,” without acknowledging that it was only the courts who stepped in and said no, you’re out of line with this subpoena, you can only have heavily redacted records.
Even in deep-red Kansas, enough people are offended by the AG’s overreaching to make his race for reelection extremely close. If it’s a viable issue in Kansas, it’s certainly a strong issue for Democrats nationally. But of course, you’ll never acknowledge that, because every issue is good for Republicans on Planet Darrell since they’re right about everything. No one but a few extreme leftists ever agrees with Democrats.
Darrell
When you can show me one child who has had their name and photo plastered in scandal rags as a result of govt. officials performing these investigations, I’ll reconsider my position.
In the meantime, we need to enforce the law, including more vigorous protection of children who are being abused.
TenguPhule
It is when they sell guns at gun shows without doing a background check that everybody else has to go through to get one from a shop.
If they supplied the beer without requiring ID, yeah.
Looks like you’re one of those ‘guns don’t kill people, bullets do’ folks.
tBone
Darrell has caught John Cole disease. Have fun in your involuntary gay marriage to Nancy Pelosi’s dog, moonbat.
Seriously – if Dem control of at least one branch of government isn’t the answer, what is? Do you think the current Republican apparatus is going to change course if it doesn’t get a wakeup call of some kind?
Darrell
You stated that the news TODAY, the news that Kline would have access to medical records with names redacted, would be a winning issue for Dems if they just had the ‘noise machine’ to publish it… as if Kline’s investigation, as it stands today, was some horrible overreach.
That was what you wrote Steve. Sorry to have to remind you of your own statements.
TenguPhule
Oh Darrell, Darrell, Darrell…this is just classic.
The only way you’ll reconsider, not change your mind now, but reconsider it, is if the damage is already done.
I’m sure the women and children will appreciate your concern.
Steve
Give me a break. I love how you capitalize the word TODAY, as if it’s something I actually said as a qualifier, when I didn’t.
The issue is a winner for Dems. You want to believe it’s not because in the end they only got their hands on redacted records, be my guest. But it doesn’t excuse your incorrect statements, claiming the AG’s actions were “reasonable,” claiming that he wasn’t looking to “fish through” records, when in fact he was doing exactly that.
You didn’t know the facts and you were dead wrong. Man up and admit it.
Darrell
On most issues, it pains me to agree with that statement.. you have a solid point. But on national security, only one party talks about terrorist threats without feeling it an obligation to use scare quotation marks when using that phrase.
Perry Como
Immaculate conception. Why do you hate the Lord?
CaseyL
By forcing them to have their abuser’s child, you mean?
Because nothing says “pro-life” like making a pre-teen carry a pregnancy to term! Esp. if the impregnator is Dad!
More of that compassionate conservatism at work –
Oh, wait. They don’t talk about compassionate conservatism anymore. Guess it suffered and died at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib.
Darrell
The issue for Dems is a winner only if they can dishonestly spin these reasonable investigations into being a “fishing expedition” into the medical records of all women who have had an abortion.
The more facts that come out on the details of these investigations, the worse the Dem rhetoric looks to average voters.
And still wondering how you Dems think it’s possible to enforce late-term abortion laws without access to medical records.
Darrell
Steve, this issue was raised today on this very thread by a poster announcing that Kline was permitted access to medical records with names of the girls and women redacted. You posted that this would be a big winning issue for Dems if they would just make a stink about it.
I pointed out that this investigation was entirely reasonable, which it was, and now you want to go back in history to change the position you took today. Sorry to have to point out what you actually said and when you said it.
srv
God didn’t make 12 & 13 year olds capable of getting pregnant just so they could get abortions.
chriskoz
Oh my… Darrell, the “Master Debater”, has given me the real smack down. Ouch.
Tell you what Darrell… as soon as I see a post from you that is “thoughtful, informed and engaging”, I will gladly debate it. (if I get there before you have been made too much of a fool)
And, I will give you credit… You answered a direct question I expected you to ignore. In fact, you actaully were able to correctly identify a few to the GOPs problems. Congrats. (But don’t worry… the “democrats are worse” line likely kept your GOP membership in good standing)
srv
Bechtel is out too. Hint: Buy Halliburton stock
Area Man
Yes. Of course. The thing is, your party just lost a great deal of credibility on this issue. To go around bashing liberals from muscle memory in regard to morals just makes you look silly.
Geez, no one runs on a “less vigorous protection of children” platform.
TenguPhule
Sure it is, there is no problem giving over personal information to a Republican AG who believes that abortions should be illegal because there is no way he would misuse that information…by oh, I don’t know…giving it to anti-abortion groups in order to pressure those 11, 12 and 13 year olds you care so much about to keep the spawn of whoever impregnated them because abortion is a ‘sin’?
Why do you support Pedophile Reproduction, Darrell?
Darrell
I’m pretty confident in saying that if ever did any such thing, intentionally or even by accident, he would be immediately thrown out of his job, and be bankrupted by the lawsuits shortly following.
Darrell
11, 12, and 13 year old girls who are impregnated, typically end up that way because an older male abused them. Investigation into abortion records of these children catch more men who sexually abuse these girls.
You oppose those reasonable investigations, which if ended, would leave more sexual predators on the street. It doesn’t get much more basic than that.
Pooh
Steve, is it just me, or is this whole thing like a mad-libbed version of any and all NSA discussions we’ve had?
Question begging definitions? Check.
Assuming conclusions? Check.
Demanding a standard of evidentiary support while not willing to submit to same? Check
“Show me one”?
Deja freaking vu…
Darrell
So you have no substantive response to legitimate points being raised?
TenguPhule
And this is supposed to deter someone who thinks he’s on a divine mission from his Lord and in control of the investigations, how exactly?
Darrell
Without a shred of evidence, you are attributing to Kline, a belief that it is his ‘divine mission’ to expose and humiliate women who have had abortions. Congratulations and welcome to the Democratic pary.
TenguPhule
As opposed to just letting them breed en masse which is what Darrell seems to want.
Hey, I can stuff a straw dummy too!
tBone
I think it pains both of us to be in agreement, Darrell. Fortunately, you included the “scare quotations” stuff as an escape hatch.
I still think you’re perilously close to becoming one of the John Coles of the Left, though. Moonbat.
TenguPhule
Without a shred of evidence, you are attributing to Kline perfect moral integrity regardless of his publically stated views, associations and actions regarding women who have had abortions.
Fixed.
Pooh
Where?
When we ask you to support your “legitimate points” and you temporize and change the subject, I don’t have anything to respond to. The ball didn’t make it back over the net, how is it my shot?
Darrell
Speaking of being “wrong on the facts” Steve, not only was I responding to your comments made today, regarding the rules of the investigation as they stand now, but lo and behold, it looks like Steve needs to do more homework before launching foot stamping attacks over his “facts” regarding the AG’s demands for ‘unredacted’ medical records:
The more facts that come out on these investigations, the more people can see the Dems dishonesty in characterizing the scope and nature of them.
Freedle
John,
Seriously, were you ever on the conservative’s real financial teat?
The main teat, the multi billion dollar teat?
You know, the conservative’s “True” savior’s teat?
freedle deedle
Dave
Darrell, I’m honestly curious why you think this is
Dave
I should add that I’m curious why “Dems are most definitely not the solution”
DougJ
Is that your idea of a botched joke? You owe the Bensten family an apology, ASAP.
Why do you hate the troops?
DougJ
John, the money you give to Soros — it comes right out of your paycheck each month, along with the 401(K), the health insurance, and the parking fees. It’s pre-tax income, you won’t even feel it.
Area Man
I don’t believe I implied that. Not at all. You must be projecting and stuff.
Steve
Darrell was given a chance to admit that he was wrong about the “reasonable” scope of the AG’s investigation. He declined and tried to spin his way out of it. I’m certainly not going to waste any more time on him.
Notice how he blindly accepts the AG’s assertion that he never sought patient’s names? “Oh look, the AG says it, this clinches it that Dems are dishonest.” A pity the Kansas Supreme Court decision shows the AG to be a liar, but why should I bother walking Darrell through it when he’s shown that he’ll never admit to anything? Heck, you’ll recall that the last time he disagreed with me on a legal issue his conclusion was that I must be lying about being a lawyer.
The Other Steve
Oh dear. Is John Boehner going to apologize for blaming the failures in Iraq on the Generals?
Darrell
With all their talk of ‘underfunded’ programs, I see no way that Dems would reduce spending. tBone’s divided power idea is the only plausible alternative to this one. Repubs blew it, and I’m bitter..stupid f*ckers
Leadership? As bad as Frist is, Pelosi would be far worse with her extreme left positions and voting record.. Reid, no better, no worse. Since 2000, I think the Dems have given more credence to the far left.. hence John Kerry’s resolution to pull out all troops in 6 months, Michael Moore’s prominent treatment at the DNC, Hillary’s accusations about Bush and 9/11 – “what did the President know and when did he know it?”. The Dems are most definitely more aggressively embracing their inner moonbat.
Mismanagement in Iraq? If Dems believed in the mission, I think they couldn’t do any worse than Repubs, and probably better. Problem is, they dropped support for Iraq as soon as it became politically convenient. Dems voted for Iraqi regime change in 1998 and 2002, then changed positions for political opportunism in my view
that’s it for me tonight. Gotta run.
Darrell
Look Steve, you’re the one who started moving goalposts, when you accused Kline of trying obtain unredacted medical records, when I pointed out the ‘reasonableness’ of the investigation today under present rules.
But although it was off topic from the point of discussion (reasonableness of Kline’s investigation today), humor us with a cite from the KS supreme court proving that Kline is a “liar” as you claim.
The Other Steve
How much do Republicans love the troops?
The Other Steve
How was it reasonable again?
It seems strange, our AG up here in Minnesota has spent his time making sure companies have been properly managing their books and such. The Kansas AG apparently is so bored, he feels a need to harass Doctors.
Pooh
The law has a book to sell…
whig
Hey, you’re already linked from Cannablog in Berkeley: Say hello to John Cole.
Area Man
Welcome to Kübler-Ross model stage one. Only three more to go.
Steve
All right, I’m a sucker. The case is 280 Kan. 903.
By the way, “inquisition” is a legal term of art under Kansas law, but I find it rather cute in this context.
9/21/04: Kline issues subpoenas for “the entire, unredacted patient files.”
10/21/04: Lower court grants request and orders clinics to produce the unredacted files.
10/26/04: Clinics file an appeal.
9/8/05: Following oral argument before the Supreme Court, Kline finally agrees that it’s okay if patient-identifying material is redacted from the files before they get turned over.
The Supreme Court’s opinion is also striking in that Kline very nearly got held in contempt of court.
Sounds like a real winner. No surprise that he lied when he told the press he had never requested the patient’s names.
Area Man
Sorry, I meant stage two. But still, only three more to go.
Freedle
Has anyone seen Michael in the last year? Like anywhere?
I think someone is in need of a good deprogrammer.
Steve
This post needs a SECOND UPDATE: Lloyd Bentsen is still dead.
tBone
THIRD UPDATE:
Michael Moore is still fat. We think. No one has really seen him lately.
Pooh
Link?
t. jasper parnell
I begin to think that Darrel and ThymeZone are the same person.
demimondian
Pooh, it’s clear that most reasonable people would agree that Michael Moore is fat. Even honest lefties like tBone think so, it’s only you America-hating whackjobs that don’t agree.
Perry Como
Activist judges.
ThymeZone
Whatever bakes your croissant, Jasp.
At least we’re a person.
And besides, I don’t believe for a minute that you began to think.
tBone
That should be ‘ “honest” Leftists like tBone,’ demi.
demimondian
Sorry, tBone. You’re rig…I mean, “Cite, please. Do any of you leftist whackjobs really believe that I would say something like that?”
SeesThroughIt
Well not all of him in a single frame, at any rate. Because, you know, he’s too fat to fit.
TenguPhule
And of course Republicans in office never lie. Because that would be…dishonest.
Darrell needs more pie.
chriskoz
I must be missing something… How do anonymous abortion records help catch child rapists?
Don’t police (and the AG) need the individuals personal details (and possibly a chance to talk to the girls) in order pursue and catch child rapists? Is it even legal to prosecute the suspects without involving the girls involved? (the right to face accusers and all that)
Is this really even the best way to handle this issue? Wouldn’t it more effective to have the doctors refer the case directly to the police if an underage girl comes in pregnant? (which also gives police the chance to investigate cases where the girl decided against the abortion) I’m not saying that this is the best way to go either… but it does seem more intelligent than trying to use anonymous abortion records.
craigie
They don’t. But they do set a useful precedent, so that in 6 months, the Sex Police can get a bigger net. And some better metaphors.
Beej
And Darrell has vanished without a trace. Nice job, Steve! Applause, Applause!
The Other Steve
I’m wondering if anybody stopped to question why this Kline guy down in Kansas wanted a list of underaged girls who had had abortions?
It seems likely that the reason he was so interested in getting the names, and then gave up on the quest when he found he couldn’t get the names and addresses, is that he was really looking for a list of girls he could victimize himself.
Now I’m sure someone might think this is far-fetched, and normally I’d agree. But after watching the way that Mark Foley guy behaved, and the way Republicans project their weaknesses in their arguments. It sure seems likely.
BrianM
Good job, Steve. It’s so nice to see citations slap Darrell in the face. It’s so nice to see something new in a thread, instead of endless repetitions of “I was right in the first place and I won’t stop until you agree.”
Both Darrell and ppGaz have reverted to form. Were they supposed to have learned something from being banned?
Darrell
Yeah ahole, he really “slapped me in the face” with that strawman. In case you can’t read, the discussion regarding Kline originated with a poster mentioning that Kline had just been granted permission to resume his investigation medical records with NAMES ALREADY REDACTED. Steve made a comment saying he wished the Dem noise machine would run with that news.. I pointed out that Kline’s investigation was entirely reasonable as it stands now with names redacted, and Steve in defense trots out the strawman to ‘slap me down’ that Kline once earlier asked for full medical records (oh the horror!), although that had nothing to do with either his current enthusiasm for publicizing that investigation through the Dem ‘noise machine, or the current investigative procedure which would redact names. It was Steve introducing a strawman when being called on his extreme views.
Furthmore, given Kline’s history as a champion for rape victim identity protection legislation, Kline’s office simply asked for medical records, and when the judge said names must be redacted, Kline had no problem with that, as court records show. After agreeing to redact names, THEN AFTERWARD the Kansas SC blocked him temporarily from going forward. From the initial order which Kline had readily agreed before the KSC jumped in:
In other words, strong measures to protect identity of the patient were already agreed to by Kline, with the argument around a procedural detail which Kline had already agreed to which was waiting for ruling.. That is the basis of Steve’s strawman. Which doesn’t change the fact that his initial argument is that the investigation TODAY is some sort of unreasonable witch hunt, hence his pushing for Dems to publicize the recent news of Kline being able to resume his investigation, as if it was some kind of wild overreach in his extremist view. He of course, as anyone can read, never argues what is so extreme about investigating medical records with names redacted on 11 year old girls that have been impregnated in order to prosecute child sexual predators, or explain how else late term abortion laws could possible be enforced without medical records. No, he doesn’t touch those issues.
Steve
See what a waste of time Darrell is? What an ass. Strawman… extreme views… blah blah blah, always the same bullshit. What I am is an idiot for trying to have a rational conversation.
Darrell
What “rational” conversation? You said the news yesterday that Kline would be resuming the investigation with names redacted, was such an overreach that Dems should run with it. Can you please direct us to any post you’ve made which address what was so unreasonable about his investigation, as it stood yesterday when you commented on the news?
Of course you can’t. But you’re only looking for a rational conversation, right? you’re a joke Steve
Darrell
Look Steve, if you can show that Kline put up a big fight over redacting the patient’s names, that would still be peripheral to the issue being discussed, but noteworthy. But court records I linked to show he had ALREADY agreed to the steps protecting the patients’ names.
Again, what about Kline’s investigations is such an overreach, deserving of the Dem’s attention to publicize the investigation?
BrianM
Darrell, you wrote:
Steve wrote:
You wrote:
Then Steve quoted the Supreme court:
It’s fair for you to say that you don’t care what the AG originally wanted, you want to talk about what the AG got. I, personally, think it speaks to motive, but you’re correct that it doesn’t refute everything you’ve written.
However, it sure seems to me that you made a particular claim that’s been refuted. It would be ever so wonderful if you admitted it.
Darrell
I never made the claim, which was peripheral to the issue. I did cite Kline’s quotation, which Steve refuted. Point is, Kline’s office simply asked for medical records, and when Judge Anderson asked for steps to protect patient identity, Kline agreed to those steps, no problem.
If you read Steve’s post, he makes it out like Kline fought tooth and nail to not to redact the names, and I’ve shown court records demonstrating that was not at all what happened.
Darrell
So then, you admit that Steve’s comments were not such a “slap down” as you originally posted? And having made the request of me, it would be wonderful if you would either show evidence to the contrary, or admit that Kline’s “motives” were not as you had suggested, as Kline wasn’t fighting over the judge’s requests to protect patients’ identity.. to the contrary, he appears to have readily agreed to them.
BrianM
Well, I’d think “readily agreed” would be more like:
AG: Here’s a subpoena.
Clinic owner: Um, in medicine we’ve got this whole patient confidentiality thing going.
AG: Oh, yeah, right. Let me fix that part.
rather than ending up before two courts in what one called “an unusually high profile case”. But, yeah, I’ll admit Steve’s comment was more of a shove than a slap down. Skimming the opinion (for which, thanks) doesn’t make me trust the AG more, though.
Darrell
Well, that’s one way to look at it. Another, more likely situation in my opinion, are abortion clinics looking for any reason to block access to medical records, especially if they have broken late-term abortion laws.. those clinics were looking for any straw to grasp to stop the AG’s office from investigating. Do you acknowledge that likelihood?
How else to explain the abortion clinic’s filing with the KSC AFTER the AG had already agreed to a number of steps protecting patient identity?
Show us what the AG did which warrants your characterization as untrustworthy?
James Cape
Thug Life 4 Ever.
So when’s the next album dropping? :-)
chriskoz
Kline:
Supreme Court:
It would seem Kline has not been entirely truthfull. That would give plenty of people reason to believe he is untrustworthy.
Darrell
chriskoz, can you read? Kline asked for medical files. The court said ok, you can have them, but the names have to be redacted. Kline said no problem.
If you could demonstrate that Kline made a big fight over having the names redacted, you would have a point. But as usual chris, you add nothing to the discussion.
chriskoz
Can you read Darrell? Kline claims he “never sought patients’ names”, yet he did in fact request “the entire, unredacted patient files”. The fact that he got the redacted versions (and is appearently ok with it now) does not mean that he “never sought patients’ names”.
I don’t need to demostrate that that he made a big deal of over it. I just have to demostrate that he did actually request patient names at some point.
Now, maybe you can help me understand how these redacted abortion records are going to help catch child rapists. (see the questions in my previous post above)
Darrell
Actually, there is no evidence to suggest that he specifically asked for “unredacted” medical files, he simply asked for the medical files. When I judge raised privacy concerns, he said fine, no problem, that he didn’t need the names of the patients anyway. It’s an important distinction.
He is investigating medical records of girls under 14 who were impregnated, in an effort to find and convict child sexual predators who impregnated them.
chriskoz
The court seems to think that he did subpoena “the entire, unredacted patient files of 90 women and girls”. Do you know something the court doesn’t? Please share.
And how does Kline “find and convict child sexual predators who impregnated them” when he doesn’t even know who the “them” is. Honestly… I’m trying to figure out how abortion records with personal information removed can be used to catch the child rapist. What information do the anonymous abortion records provide that can be used to catch the crook? And if it’s so useful, why doesn’t Kline subpoena the redacted medical records of every pregnant teen under 16 who shows up at the doctors office? (Including the ones that don’t get abortions for one reason or another.)
BrianM
I judged the AG untrustworthy partly because of his brush with a contempt citation, but also because what he asked for—everything—was far beyond what he needed, and it took him so long to back down. As the SC said:
That’s a fraction of what was asked for. Note that it’s a stretch to say that Kline’s response to the clinics was “no problem”. It looks from the timeline as if he resisted redaction by the clinics from at least February 22 until September 15th (one week after arguments in front of the Supreme Court). There’s language in the opinion about that post-argument change that I don’t understand, but it has a kind of snarky air about it.
I do think this is not a huge issue, and I expect I wouldn’t have bothered with it had I not been looking for some excuse to avoid looking through the damage a non-technical indexer did when creating an index for my technical book.
Darrell
That’s a dishonest as hell characterization. There is no evidence that Kline was “resisting” having the names redacted during that time period. If you claim otherwise, produce it. In fact, court documents show that a number of measures protecting patient identity had already been agreed to.
You “bothered” with it because you’re an asshole who wanted to take a chickenshit cheap shot at me. Don’t pretend it was anything else
Echtheow the Geat
I don’t know what you people are talking about, but Darrell is correct. Anyone who disagrees with this man deserves to perish on my blade.
Vote Republican, or die. You needn’t fear the Saracens and Moors; I will come kill you myself. This is my solemn vow to you all; perhaps American politics are not as complicated as I had first thought them to be.
BrianM
From the Supreme Court decision:
I read this as saying:
Kline originally wanted full records.
The first court did not allow redaction by the clinics, but only after delivery, with people appointed by the AG participating. It’s not unreasonable to suspect that names might thus leak, so the clinics objected.
In oral arguments, the AG’s office maintained their position.
It was only after oral arguments that they backed down.
I don’t think the document you cite supports “When I judge raised privacy concerns, he said fine, no problem, that he didn’t need the names of the patients anyway.” That’s all.
The reason I said this is not a big deal is because it seems to me that the Supreme Court reached a reasonable decision. No harm was done to the patients or to justified investigations.
It’s been interesting arguing with you, Darrell. I changed my mind, some. The reason I think you need slapping down is because you don’t. You ignore ambiguous or contradictory evidence. That makes you a waste of time. I’m self-employed, and the boss side of me is pretty ticked that the employee side of me has been frittering time away when there’s money to be made. So you can have the last word.