So we’re all excited now:
Democrats in Congress today were energized by President Obama’s deficit reduction plan, which in part calls for higher taxes on the wealthy, and called on Congress to get to work on Mr. Obama’s proposals right away.
Mr. Obama today put forward a plan to reduce the deficit by about $3 trillion over 10 years. The plan is intended to pay for the president’s $447 billion jobs package, as well as to start paying down the nation’s long-term deficits and debt. About $1.5 trillion of the budget savings in Mr. Obama’s plan comes from raising taxes on the wealthy, closing tax loopholes and other tax changes.
Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., a vocal advocate for reducing income inequality, released a statement applauding President Obama’s plan, which she said demands “that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.”
“The battle lines are drawn in this crisis, and President Obama is taking a clear stand behind our nation’s seniors and middle class Americans,” Schakowsky said. “Congress must get behind the President’s proposal and make sure we do not attempt to reduce the nation’s deficit on the backs of the middle class and seniors.”
So I guess this is what we get to beat Republicans over the head with for the next year. Not that anything is likely to be done soon to actually help people without jobs. But the show must go on. As a side note, I’m motivated because the other side is nucking futs.
Sorta related- interesting piece at Alternet about the underground economy people are relying on to survive.
Loneoak
I haven’t found an easy answer to this question, since all the news stories (even TPM) are all about horse race bullshit. Does anyone understand if the ‘Buffett Rule’ means they are adjusting up the capital gains tax? If that’s still excluded from ‘income’ I don’t see how the Buffett Rule even catches Buffett. Afaik, he might not even earn a penny of income that isn’t capital gains.
JWL
Other side? How about, “The Republican Party Is Fucking Nuts”.
Now there’s a succinct slogan for Obama’s 2012 campaign.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Loneoak: Sure, there’s a way. It’s called changing the definition of (some) capital gains so they’re classified as income rather than appreciation. It would have the side benefit of seriously sticking it to a large number of hedge fund shrikes as well.
kindness
Don’t sound so down John. Everyone has to make a go of it and we all face the same bunch of blowhards & feeble every day. At least you are reaching some unlike most of us.
Pat yourself on the back & go home & love your kids. That and vote like an O-bot should.
Loneoak
@polyorchnid octopunch:
Of course there’s a way, but is that way part of the Buffett Rule as described by Obama/Dems?
Davis X. Machina
I didn’t notice a single mention of the public option in the entire thing.
fasteddie9318
Don’t get ahead of yourself, Cole. You have to give it a couple of days for folks like Mary Landrieu (D-BP) to bitch about how the plan doesn’t involve more oil company profits, and for Mark Pryor (D-Walmart) to complain that this would force the poor Walton family and its 327 billionaire members to stop their glorious investment in American workers, and for Ben Nelson (D-Really?) to announce he can’t support this because WOW, and for Jim Webb (D-Republican) to bitch about how we can’t tax our Galtian Overlords like this, and for Joe Lieberman (I-ThoughtIToldYouToGoFuckYourselves) to announce that he can’t support this plan because Anthony Weiner’s cock is too distracting or whatever, and for Joe Manchin and Heath Schuler (D-Ipshits) to speculate about how the pinko lieberal Kenyan Muslim President is conspiring with that probably-lesbo bitch Nancy Pelosi to destroy our country BUT JOE AND HEATH ARE TOTES DEMOCRATS Y’ALL.
Danny
Your transformation to an old school Defeatocrat is now complete, here is your membership card. I don’t think that’s true at all, if democrats in congress and all progressive voices take the presidents plans seriously and demand republicans vote for it it will have all the more chance to pass. If we declare it will fail we have already lost.
And if it turns out to be true that nothing will “be done soon to actually help people without jobs” there’s one reason for that and one reason only: to few people voting democrat in the 2010 midterms. Cause and effect. Never forget that.
joeyess
The underground economy will be designated by Republicans as
The coming meme starts in 3…2…1…
Keith G
There are many in Congress like Schakowsky who want/need the feel of being part of a political party with a focus, AKA partisan emotion. That has been part of the show for 200 years, more or less.
Keith G
There are many in Congress like Schakowsky who want/need the feel of being part of a political party with a focus, AKA partisan emotion. That has been part of the show for 200 years, more or less.
singfoom
I’ll be energized when a bill passes both houses of Congress and is signed by President Obama. Right now I’m mildly hopeful with a dash of expecting to be disappointed.
I’m all for the rich paying more of their share, but I’ll believe it when it actually happens, not when it’s ‘called’ for.
joeyess
Instead of this nebulous “Buffet Rule”, why don’t the Democrats frame this as “we’re gonna tax these rich fucking pricks and if they don’t like it they can kiss our fucking asses.”?
With the exception of a deluded percentage of Real ‘Murkins that are struggling but see themselves as merely temporarily embarrassed millionaires, taxing the rich polls very well.
Of course, we’d want to work on “rich fucking pricks” and “kiss our fucking asses”, but that message can be easily massaged.
joeyess
BTW, nothing is going to get passed by this congress. Policy is over for this session of congress. It’s full-on re-election mode from this point forward.
Linda Featheringill
Oh my. What a cheerful group of people.
PeakVT
@joeyess: The “Buffett Rule” is actually a good phrase. Rich guy favors tax increase on himself! Most people know who he is and I think people generally have a favorable impression of him. So having his name on a tax increase is probably the best framing/branding/marketing that can be done for the policy. I’m sure Republicans will try hard to smear him somehow, but doing so will be a harder than usual.
jeffreyw
Not Everyone is Energized. Hard damn work keeping it going at a high level.
nellcote
Ya know John, your world weary cynicism is tedious on a day when the Prez puts out a plan we can get behind. Can’t you even wait 24 hours before you pull your debbie-downer routine?
Admiral_Komack
@Davis X. Machina:
…so you know that the President Obama will need to be primaried. (snark)
Martin
My wife’s underground business is buying expensive furniture from the rich folks at next-to-nothing prices on Craigs List, then furnishing our home and selling off the piece she replaced for more than she paid. That $5,000 massive upholstered leather reading chair and ottoman in my living room? Paid $80. Should we replace it, we’ll ask probably $500 for it. The $3,000 armoire? Free, provided we paid to move it (which we did, for $75).
Honestly, for some people giving away a $3,000 piece of furniture is less painful than hiring a mover. Might as well exploit that.
Sasha
“This is not class warfare — it’s math.”
:)
Admiral_Komack
@joeyess:
Hard times call for hard members…uh…measures…
Shinobi
Yay, that’s my congresswoman! She’s awesome! I met her at the el stop once and totally gushed like a dork.
(I also met Rahm, but it was hard to tell he wasn’t just another crazy guy trying to get money. He was wearing a polar fleece and his staffers were standing in the corner looking at blackberries, I felt kinda bad for the guy. Also WOW is he short.)
Nevgu
@nellcote: You can always count on Cup Half Empty Cole to bring up the cup half emptiness. And of course there is the always popular pivot to a more negative story in the same post. A two fer of negativity…for effect…I guess.
Tom Hilton
@joeyess:
Because that would be framing it in exactly the way the right is trying to frame it.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
That has been my motivation all along. I also haven’t quite figured out why that wasn’t enough for some people. JFK’s body propped up on a warming plate would have gotten my vote in order to keep Republicans out of the White House.
Linnaeus
A link some folks may find interesting; we haven’t had a lost decade, we’ve had four lost decades.
JC
Actually, FWIW, I understand your cynicism, but really, it is the best plan we can have for the next year.
and, it’s a change, that unites the emo-progs – expose the Rethugs! – with the campaign people.
So if it lessens – won’t get rid of, but lessens – the liberal-progressive squabble, less “Judean’s People’s Front – splitter!!”, it’s all to the good.
OzoneR
John, you haven’t heard, Liberals hate Obama for cutting Medicare.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/182409-liberals-pan-health-benefit-cuts-in-obama-plan
SIA
@PeakVT: They already are. My wing nutty mama (middle class) made some snide comments about Buffet which I’m sure she picked up over at Faux. Then murmured something about “If people make money they ought to be allowed to keep it…” yadayada. They’ve actually managed to demonize ol’ Warren. What a joke.
SIA
@jeffreyw: OMG. Labs? Aw da puppehs!
SIA
@jeffreyw: OMG. Labs? Aw da puppehs!
pragmatism
once palin primaries obama as a democrat, then we will see some energizing. so sayeth the freepers.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Danny:
I take it seriously. Even if passed, it will not help that much. It is another patented half- or quarter-measure. Let’s agree to call it a good start.
Republicans, I demand that you vote for this legislation! (Exclamation point added to emphasize seriousness.)
Aren’t you forgetting all those people voting Republican, in addition to fed-up citizens voting for change?
—
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” – The Donner Party
.
.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
When I got downsized at Georgia Tech I went on unemployment and picked up all kinds of work painting, carpentry and general handyman stuff. That was the legit underground economy!
slag
@nellcote:
Ignore him. It’s a drama queen thing. He’ll get over it eventually.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Cosigned. And for the hardcore political history junkie, the 2012 election is shaping up to look a bit like an early-21st century version of what the 1964 election might have been if JFK had lived to run on his record circa 1961-1964 against Goldwater.
BonnyAnne
The underground economy article is genius.
Full disclosure: that very same underground economy is what’s currently putting me through nursing school, at which point I will emerge from said economy with (hopefully!) a job, a skilled trade, and employment at a state hospital with a middle-class wage that’s guaranteed to me by my union.
Then I shall spend the rest of my natural life listening to angry retirees complain, without a shred of irony, about overpaid, lazy, parasitic and unionized government employees. Often they will say this as Fox News blares in the background of the TV provided for them in their private hospital room, while I (the lazy union thug) help them vomit into a basin and shower them off afterwards.
but: job!
General Stuck
It doesn’t sound to me like Obama is leaving any door open with the wingers, that doesn’t include a one for one dollar for cuts and raised taxes. And if you think the wingers are going to raise taxes one dime, then this bridge I got for sale, comes with it’s own river.
When Cole is right, I reluctantly say so, and I don’t see any way any kind of fiscal legislation is going to pass before the election.
Everyone should have their tickets punched for the show, at the Theater of the Absurd, with many performance dates up to Nov 2012.
VOR
Faux News was saying Warren Buffett was a socialist. Warren Buffett! Seriously?
SIA
Pres. Obama, via Greg Sargent:
Very good.
Admiral_Komack
@pragmatism:
Yeah, I just bet she wants to “energize” the President…but I don’t think the President is interested, and the First Lady won’t let it happen.
RareSanity
I don’t think it is being a Defeatocrat recognizing that no matter how good the legislation is, no matter how much good it will do, no matter how much it will help people, Republicans can and will prevent it from passing.
As long as it requires a single Republican vote to pass, it won’t, period.
I see this for what it is, a full court press to make Republicans explain why they are against a bill to create jobs, going in to the election. Get as many Republicans as possible, for as long as possible, to be on record opposing a perfectly sane job creation bill.
Kola Noscopy
@joeyess:
Reason/example # 81,420 of how the American political system is utterly corrupt and FUBAR: FOURTEEN FUCKING MONTHS during which it is passively received wisdom that NOTHING CAN BE DONE, and the political junky/Dem jirkle cerk members here are generally OK with that.
And Obots, please don’t try to pretend to forget that Obama had two years during which he had Dem control of both houses of congress, but then of course NOTHING COULD BE DONE either, because SHUT UP THAT’S WHY.
This country is so fucked up…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Admiral_Komack:
You may think you’re kidding…
Kola Noscopy
OTOH, in this post, Cole shows signs, just tiny little ones, of stirring from his long Obot dream of pink clouds and fairy dust and magical, special LEADERS; and waking to political reality–the Oligarchy, Dem and Puke alike, needs to come down.
catclub
@joeyess: “With the exception of a deluded percentage of Real ‘Murkins that are struggling but see themselves as merely temporarily embarrassed millionaires, taxing the rich polls very well”
That deluded percentage is disturbingly high. Some because they are planning their big score, but distracted by the munchies.
Kola Noscopy
@Linda Featheringill:
Oh my. What a cheerful group of people.
Shorter Linda: SMILE PRETTIER! CLAP LOUDER!
General Stuck
@Kola Noscopy:
Shouldn’t you be investigating what REALLY caused 9-11? And maybe making some calls for Ron Paul. I mean, it is all well and good, to hang around here and write stoopid shit, but it just seems your awesome talent is going to waste, though you do cause a small chuckle now and then with yer antics.
James
It hilarious watching you folks ‘get energized’ over the same pandering lies this shitheel used to get elected in the first place.
Tom Hilton
@Kola Noscopy:
Nothing done? Riiiiiight….
Oh, but none of those things actually count because SHUT UP THAT’S WHY. Jesus, you’re a fucking moron.
(More fun here.)
Kola Noscopy
@Nevgu:
Man, Cole CANNOT catch a break: As soon as he shows any sign of veering from the faithful Bot path, his erstwhile comrades pounce. hahaha…
General Stuck
@Tom Hilton:
Thanks for that link, I been looking for a short and sweet list of O accomplishments, and this fits the bill.
aisce
@ danny
what happened to “legislative realities?” what happened to “the bully pulpit doesn’t work?” what happened to “pragmatism” and “responsible compromise” and “being the adult in the room?” what is this “demand” business?
firebagger. boy, i sure hope nothing in your posting history says the exact opposite of what you just wrote. that would be awkward.
DonkeyKong
I loves me some Classic Obama, New (now hopefully old) Obama not so much. The phone banks and my checkbook are gonna get a workout!
comrade scott's agenda of rage
The only problem with using the “Buffet Rule” as a catch phrase or pithy framing sound bite is that out here in (un)Real ‘Murka, people will either
a) have no idea wtf he’s talking about, or
b) ask “Jimmy Buffet’s advising that colored fella in the White House?”
Bruce S
#29 – OzoneR: You’re just as pathological as ever in your insane fixation on “the left”, aren’t you? Dems are uniting behind the President – as evidenced by the full statement from Ellison and Gravila – but certain of the usual suspects here still have to spew the hate and distortions…
boss bitch
Ralph Nader is going to primary Obama. With support from Cornel West and 45 other leaders.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/#415
Linnaeus
John Judis at TNR seems less energized, but I think his analysis is worth reading. There’s a lot to be done, and not a lot of time left to do it.
lamh34
It’s official: `Don’t ask don’t tell’ is history
SIA
@BonnyAnne: Great comment!
Jeff Fecke
Oh hai Mark Penn!
It’s too bad Hillary Clinton wasn’t elected, she’d be so much more liberal than President Obama.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Kola Noscopy:
Settle down Timmeh. Munch some more drugs but stay away from the hallucinogens, you’ve been downing those like potato chips.
Calouste
@boss bitch:
Fixed to reflect reality.
SIA
@James: You’re welcome!
slag
@General Stuck:
Ignore him. It’s a drama queen thing. He’ll get over it eventually. No…actually…he won’t get over it eventually.
@Bruce S:
Neither will he.
aisce
@ bruce s
you say this in a thread where somebody, for no reason, refers to the president as a “shitheel?”
god, this site’s comments suck these days.
@ boss bitch
oh, terrific. because of course he is. the dnc shouldn’t even allow that fraud to be put on a ballot, not even if he collects half a million signatures in each and every state in the nation.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@lamh34:
This proves that Obama is weak and that Nader should primary him.
Linda Featheringill
@Kola Noscopy:
Pffffft!
dmsilev
@boss bitch: I saw that. Anyone want to bet what fraction of the vote Saint Ralph of Nader will get against Obama in the primary? I’ll take “1” in the pool, only slightly ahead of a PUMA attempt at a Hillary write-in campaign and perennial also-ran Mickey Mouse.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@Tom Hilton:
Here’s something he hasn’t done – “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” I and the Constitution think that’s extremely important, although I understand that you do not.
—
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” – Hannibal Lecter
.
.
scav
Honestly, does this place reek of plastic grass here or am I hallucinating? Anyway, OT excitement of a sort and for some. Deep Springs seems to be going co-ed. And cartographers are getting yelled out for not mapping enough ice but not by the party you will instantly suspect. Funny old world. Back to your astro-bickering.
WaterGirl
@JWL: I had a similar thought the other day. My slogan was “Vote for me. I’m not Crazy.”
boss bitch
@Calouste:
I have much stronger descriptions in mind but I’m trying to cut back on my cursing around here.
Bruce S
#67 – aisce…
Try making a point in reference to my comment on OzoneR’s hysterics that makes some sense. OzoneR suggested that the two leaders of the Progressive Caucus “hate” President Obama.
This assertion regarding the congressmen is a deliberate lie and anyone who stoops to these kinds of distortions is a “shitheel.”
Grow up…
Also, your comment on the dnc shutting folks out of primaries no matter how many signatures they get suggests you would have made an excellent precinct captain in Moscow. Under Brezhnev. You clowns have a problem…
harlana
this is OT, but i just have to say this
i thank God i now have a job and insurance and can afford therapy because i have got to find a way to deal with the overwhelming sense of grief i feel having watched and continuing to witness my country crumble and decay around me, a slow agonizing death for the working class and working poor, euthanasia for the poor. i didn’t expect it to come quite this fast.
it’s heartbreaking
i will now be able to receive help for this for which i am deeply grateful to all who helped make it happen. it is an amazing feeling to be helped by total strangers. as during the beginning of the War Years, i risk becoming emotionally devastated right now by what’s happening to the country. i really do have to check myself to make sure i didn’t dream some of this stuff (the last republican debate, for instance). i am also emotionally affected by the situations of friends and other people i personally know, i see such incredible stress in their lives because of health and financial issues. i want to make it all better for them and i’m helpless. and without my family, i am nothing.
and yes, the middle class is becoming the new poor and that bodes very ill, as well, for the poor who have managed to make it this far
we are all immensely fucked and i have no idea how to put a positive spin on any of this
James
“Hey… you know who’d enjoy butchering Afghani/Lybian women and children? Gay people! Let’s make that happen.”
– Obama, a noted ‘progressive’
boss bitch
@dmsilev:
Emma
@Kola Noscopy: And Obots, please don’t try to pretend to forget that Obama had two years during which he had Dem control of both houses of congress Yes, this country is fucked up as long as so called liberals like yourself either can’t see reality or lie in order to make their point (how republican of you). The President never controlled the Senate, both because there were this idiot rules in place AND because there was this group of so-called Democrats known as the Blue Dogs, which put any republican to shame. editAnd in spite of that, he got a carload of things done.
When you arrive at the same Universe as the rest of us, let me know and we can have a policy discussion.
les
@Kola Noscopy:
Shockingly, your conclusion does not follow from your premise. Or, you’re an idiot. But we knew that.
PeakVT
@SIA: The hardcore wingnuts will hate him as ordered, but it’s gotta spread beyond that to be useful.
trollhattan
@Calouste:
Ralphie and Sarah, sittin’ in a tree….
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/09/19/nader_palin/index.html
Poor guy lost it so long ago he lost the slip of paper telling him where he lost it. And I’d still like to kick his saggy butt because of 2000. Thanks bunches, Ralph.
boss bitch
@aisce:
oh Lawd. the last thing we need is for them to start crying that The Man is trying to hold them down because Obama is scared of them.
harlana
This encapsulates for me what is wrong; most depressing comment ever:
you don’t get it until it personally affects you in a negative manner. it has to personally wreck your life first for any of this to register. where is your God, people?
superfly
I can’t even tell who is on what side in here anymore.
boss bitch
Never mind Juicers. TPM mucked up. It looks like the same plan ABL wrote about over the weekend.
PeakVT
@harlana: You need to try to separate yourself from the news and the fate of the country if it affects you that much. Sure, a lot of the news is depressing, but there’s no point in internalizing it when you aren’t able to affect it much. You’re not a politician or a power broker, so if you vote D, give a little money, and harass a few IRL people to get out to the polls, your conscience should be clean. IMHO. YMMV.
JC
What is up with all the hate Obama comments today? Is it just trolls and sock puppets?
FWIW, I’ve been consistent – and even the emoprogs are giving Obama some grudging props.
This is a GOOD thing. Hit the Rethugs over and over again for their opposition to the middle class. To thier support for ending Medicare. For standing strong!
I’ve been critical, and especially was so over the debt ceiling and the December fold on extending Bush tax cuts.
But other than those two things, and too much ‘Middle Man’ stuff, Obama has been good in getting passed what CAN be passed, given the bought and paid Congress we have.
That ‘given the bought and paid Congress’ does a lot of work, by the way…progressives who want more, underestimate the dollars and power there.
We don’t have ABL doing her Mean Girl poutrage antics here on this thread, so we can pretty much all get together on this.
Linda Featheringill
@harlana:
There are some very sad stories there.
Tom Hilton
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Responding to specific accomplishments with vague, abstract accusations: now that’s winning!
In, y’know, the Charlie Sheen sense of the word.
Karmakin
Well, nothing is going to be done until we win.
The election? Nope. Society at large. That’s the battlefield.
Actually, I cut Obama more slack than most because his strategy actually wasn’t a bad one. It was just a wrong one. It was overly patriotic, and treated people like grown-ups instead of selfish, petty, brats.
Now it seems like he knows better.
Linda Featheringill
@harlana:
Cheer up a bit dear. The whole country could very well take a turn for the worse but it might not. And even if we lose everything we hold dear, let’s see how much political damage we can do the other side.
Ridicule is a powerful weapon and quite legal. Let’s try that.
Nevgu
@Kola Noscopy: What alternate universe do you come from Cole apologist like creature?
Cole is a bot of the very worst kind. Ignorant and easily brainwashable.
Jay B.
The irony — The politically obvious thing being done now was also the politically obvious thing to do three years ago. It may have even prevented a bloodbath in 2010.
But, better late than never. It’s the right move and always has been.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nevgu: Woohoo! Troll fight!
slag
@Omnes Omnibus:
Useful only if it’s a fight to the death.
Omnes Omnibus
@slag: We can hope. Two trolls enter; no trolls leave!
slag
@Omnes Omnibus:
I like where your head’s at. But I see no reason to limit participation to just two. That would be elitist. Embrace the big tent when it comes to troll fighting, is my motto.
Omnes Omnibus
@slag: Starting small with a view to growth.
Danny
It’s still true that if republicans hold together and vote against it won’t pass. That was decided november 2010. It’s still true that the President holding a speech in and of itself can’t make anything magically happen by itself. It’s still true that democrats in congress are unreliable allies on account of a lot of them coming from states and districts that are more conservative than he is and than you are. It’s still true that progressive voices with a platform like Cole, like Hamsher, like Drum like Freddie DeBoar are unfit to be foot soldiers because they’ll rather blog about their feelings, about ketchup and about grammar than hammer in a message time and time again and mobilize their readers to call their congressman or rally on the steps of Capitol. It’s still true that progressive grassroots don’t want to be rallied by hammered talking points anyway, they don’t want to be scared before there’s proof and they’d much rather laugh at republicans and get angry at democrats. It’s still true that republicans got FoxNews, Talk Radio and a thousand loyal flacks in Washington D.C. that will pick the presidents message apart and try to make him pay for pitching it and still have a very good chance at succeeding.
All that was true when I said it then and it’s still true now. What’s changed between then and now is:
1) The economy got worse on account of the multiple factors including Arab Spring unrest and the Japanese tsunami causing oil price squeeze and supply chain disruptions respectively; and US State level austerity measures post the midterms, European austerity measures, European debt crisis and the debt ceiling downgrade throwing further cold water on the economy, sending markets crashing.
This has created an environment where the economy is more likely to fall back into recession rather than escalating but slow recovery and where Obama is more likely to loose whichever course of action he takes. That’s trivially a climate where higher risk gambits are more warranted.
It’s also a climate where the US public – as opposed to progressives only – are more likely to demand action from policy makers and the public demanding action facilitates action happening. That’s once again trivially relevant factors to weigh in if one is not a believer in magical infallible Bully Pulpits that is.
2) You may not have noticed but the President isn’t the only guy who’ve been loosing out in the polls recently. This year the narrative of republican intrancigence, fanaticism and fealty to Norqvist pledges rather than their constitutional responsibilities has gone mainstream. Again: not just with progressives who read Balloon-Juice and Washington Monthly, but with american who are low-energy consumers of political news. That happened by their intransigence being contrasted against the Presidents consistent moderate, adult in the room balanced approach. The debt ceiling deal was not only a poor deal for us – it lost the republicans a lot of goodwill. They are firmly cornered as willing to do almost anything to keep taxes low on the wealthy.
It’s not just the President saying it. It’s not just you and the progressive bloggers you read saying it. It’s talking heads, moderate republicans, business leaders and mmuricans saying it.
That, together with 1) creates a climate where an angry, populistic, black man who’s the president of the US has a fair shot at succeeding in bullying some moderate republicans into compromise. And 1) also means that it’s a risk worth taking.
I don’t know how confident I am that the chance of passage of either plan is above 50%, but even if it’s 15% that’s still not zero. Once you’ve decided to go for it and if the chance of success is even one percentage point above zero, prematurely declaring defeat is irrational and shooting oneself in the foot.
Continuing: here’s another thing for you to ponder: You watch the president’s speech again and try to imagine – if you can – how it would have played in December 2010 without everything that’s happened in 2011. There’s a difference between a belief in magical bully pulpits as a get out of jail card that a President can call on under any circumstances, shut down opposition and mandate policy, on the one hand, and a recognition of the bully pulpit as a tool that can be useful but has to be in concert with allies and under favorable circumstances; IOW not stupidly.
When you grok that distinction I’m sure you’ll understand why I’m in favor of optimism and support now that we’ve taken the jump, now that the President is already playing offense. That’s because without support and favorable circumstances he’ll fall flat on his face and we’ll all lose out as a result.
Nope. You’re free to dig through my posting history and come at me as many times as you like, but you won’t find anything because there’s no inconsistency there. Only a realistic view of how the world works rather than belief in a magical world where attitude, a couple of speeches and swagger in itself will win the battle each and every time if only the cause is just. Do it! I’d love to see it.
Now, aisce, we usually bitch at each other not over this but re: Jane Hamsher, (the bully pulpit queen par excellance). You usually butting in scolding people who criticize her, saying you think “she’s not important” and you think calling her out or holding her accountable only wastes energy and gives her a higher profile.
But when did you get a dog in this bully pulpit fight, trying to score a “haha I told you so” for the firebagger camp? Could it be you yourself are a (very timid)… firebagger? No, couldn’t possibly be.
slag
@Omnes Omnibus: How very nuanced. You will never make it as a troll. Which I guess means that you’ll just have to live the rest of your productive life outside of the Octagon. Think of all the notoriety you’ll be missing out on. The glamour. The romance.
You realize that, at this rate, no poet will ever write about you.
Nevgu
@Omnes Omnibus Glad we both agree that Cole apologists are trolls my furry little super groupie.
Btw, hate to destroy your dreams but there is no chance we will be taking long warm showers together my little obessive repressive.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Tom Hilton:
I’m sorry you are so ignorant on the topic of the Constitution and the rule of law. I suppose it helps you get thru your Cult of Personality day. I’ll do what you did and offer a link – aclu.org. Let us know how your efforts at self-education go. I think it will result in a big win for you, balloonemo.
.
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priscianus jr
@singfoom:
Omnes Omnibus
@slag: Poets have already written of me and my legendary deeds, so I am okay without the Octagon.
slag
@Omnes Omnibus: Ok, but just so you know…Transcendentalists don’t really count. Those dudes were just high on life. Especially when the average troll is making a serious play for a Homeric epic. How are you ever gonna compete with that?
aisce
@ danny
i didn’t. i barely even pay attention to politics anymore. divided government merely offends me, and elections aren’t for ages.
i just wanted to see how much your verbose, bitchy self would protest if i called you a firebagger. from your 80,000 word post, it would appear i hit a sore spot.
tell me, honestly, if i had called you an “emoprog” instead, could you have gotten to 100,000 words? i’m still sorting out which one drives centerless bobbleheads like yourself up the wall more. i feel like firebagger is still more effective, but i have noticed emoprog getting more and more run lately.
oh well, another time perhaps. have a wonderful day and enjoy the bully pulpiteering. i’ll be over here not giving a shit until democrats have the opportunity to retake the house.
Danny
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Heartening to see you joining the fray rather than the usual drive by.
Well it’s a 447 B $ stimulus bill.
After the debt ceiling deal Brad DeLong quickly wrote an alarmist post where he asserted that the 21 B$ in spending cuts in fiscal 2012 that was in that bill could shrink GDP by 0,4%. Using DeLongs numbers then, this bill could grow the economy by 8,5%.
Funny how that works, huh?
Out here in the real world where DeLong is a world class hack – when he wants to act hackish – and you’re a smaller scale amateur hack most all the time, the deficit deal won’t shrink the economy by ,4% and the American Jobs Act won’t grow it by 8,5%.
But it will make a real difference and the economy is hanging in the balance at this point. It’s a global economy and it’s perfectly possible that a firm nudge in the right direction can have good results. Or maybe it won’t. IOW, don’t make perfect the enemy of the good. A couple of months ago we were talking about extending the payroll tax cuts as pie in the sky, and here we are maybe having a shot at passing a meaningful second stimulus.
From our perspective they’re irrelevant. We can’t stop them, the only factor we can influence is how many democratic votes there’s gonna be… And for reference, there were 20+ million less voters in 2010 than in 2008, and we lost out. Democratic voters are prone to stay home in the midterms it’s a problem we have. If they didnt stay home policy in the US would be much more progressive.
Paula
@lamh34:
Hey, remember when DADT was the most important thing EVAR?
Teh interwebz don’t either.
aisce
@ danny
i didn’t. i barely even pay attention to politics anymore. divided government merely offends me, and elections aren’t for ages.
i just wanted to see how much you would protest if i called you a firebagger. from your 80,000 word post, it would appear i hit a sore spot.
tell me, honestly, if i had called you an “emoprog” instead, could you have gotten to 100,000 words? i’m still sorting out which one drives centerless bobbleheads like yourself up the wall more. i feel like firebagger is still more effective, but i have noticed emoprog getting more and more run lately.
Danny
@aisce:
Hey, you came out swinging high and mighty thinking you caught me in a “gotcha” or something, presumably looking for payback over some old butthurt you had. So yes, I care about politics and about people calling me a hypocrate enough to write a long response. You alleged hypocracy, imho got told and – by the looks of it – had nuthin in response. Now run off and play somewhere else. (Or, if you’re here strictly for trolling: f-ck off and play somewhere else)
JC
@Danny:
Your contribution is appreciated, despite the know-nothing ‘you suck!’s from the trolls.
People seem to be into their pissiness today, not related to anything other than point scoring.
Danny
@JC:
Thanks man, appreciate it! :)
Odie Hugh Manatee
@harlana:
It’s clear that those people don’t have the wherewithal to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Obviously they are leeches on society and should be made to suffer. Poor choices and all, you know.
/rich dude munching caviar and sipping champagne while reclining in a floating armchair in the pool on their yacht in the Bahamas
OzoneR
@Paula:
If Obama signed an executive order, he can end it TOMORROW!!
aisce
@ danny
you think i care about your “record?”
you were being an imperious little dick to cole, so i threw some back at you. which you handled extremely well, as you firebaggers always do.
so way to defend your honor from my spurious charges of hypocrisy. i sure got told. for reals.
OzoneR
@Bruce S:
I know, I commented in another thread that the headline doesn’t fit the story, but the media is still spinning the “left is angry at Obama” crap when they actually aren’t.
I’m making the point that even when the left is united, we had a media telling people we aren’t, giving the Blue Dogs the message they want.
Danny
@aisce:
I obviously don’t give much of a shit at this point what you care about. I care about my own record enough to hand you your ass when you call me a hypocrite. That’s all.
You feeling a need to valiantly defend John Cole’s honor is certainly cute and maybe it scores some brownie points – what do I know? – but he’s a big boy with his own blog and I’m sure he’ll post a comment if he feels he received one below the belt. I’m not much for sucking up, preferring to call things like I see them. To each his own I guess.
Blogreeder
@Sasha:
I think the people here think differently, thank you very much. It IS class war to some! They’re energized don’t you see? When was the last time someone was energized for Math?
Bruce S
#116 – OzoneR – I’m sorry. I apologize. I misread the intent of your comment. I thought you were making that statement – as someone who has tried lamely to use irony elsewhere with less than stellar results, I get the dilemma.
Again, I apologize for going off – I read the original Progressive Caucus statement and I thought the characterization was a total distortion and the last thing we need. Of course, the press will continue to play that game. But – whatever differences some of us might have over policy or politics – this isn’t the time for that. Dems are uniting…
Kola Noscopy
@General Stuck:
Ah Stuck, obfuscating as per usual…but hey let’s go down that road just a teensy bit tonight: The government says it found Muhammed Atta’s passport on the streets of Manhattan after the WTC went down that day, having apparently floated there in one piece from where it started out in the middle of an exploding plane in the middle of an exploding building. Do you believe that claim?
I look forward to your reply, written from amidst a cloud of hummingbirds, as per usual.
Kola Noscopy
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Settle down Timmeh.
A question: Why are you calling me Timmeh?
Kola Noscopy
@Nevgu:
…you told me you loved me. sniff
aisce
@ danny, the totally not a hypocrite you guys
eh, you’re still not getting it. this doesn’t have anything to do with cole either.
you think you’re winning, but you’re dancing on a string here. now, to complete the sequence, tell me how hard you work at democratic organizing irl, and tell me you’re putting me on your pie filter.
because you don’t have time in your busy, busy, productive life for trolls and defeatocrats. you silly hypocrite.
hildebrand
@Kola Noscopy:Oh my.
Swell, a closet 9/11 truther. Yep, that is bound to get people around here thinking the best of your intellectual abilities.
Though if you are truther-curious, might I suggest Eco’s ‘Foucault’s Pendulum’ to nip the whole conspiracy theory bit in the bud? Nah, you would find common cause with the diabolicals. Best not to tempt fate.
Kola Noscopy
@hildebrand:
Hey Brainiac:
The government says it found Muhammed Atta’s passport on the streets of Manhattan after the WTC went down that day, having apparently floated there in one piece from where it started out in the middle of an exploding plane in the middle of an exploding building. Do you accept that claim as factual?
Danny
@aisce:
I’m not interested in “winning” (on teh internet). I care about standing up for myself and my integrity when you call me a hypocrite.
This is fucking irrelevant to anything we discussed and in fact an ad hominem by implication. You aint entitled to know what amount of democratic organizing I do or don’t do in real life, so why don’t you f-ck off and lick your wounds elsewhere?
You started out by butting in calling me a hypocrite presumably because you were hurt by me being mean to you at some time or another. I explained that why I’m not a hypocrite. Then you said you never meant it you were just saying it for the lulz. I told you it wasnt lulzy and that you’re a butthurt jerk- You then said you just stood up for John Cole because I was mean to him. I called you a brown nose and told you to f-ck off. Now you demand I account for my level of organizing cred or something.
Just give it up. You obviously have an axe to grind because I stepped on your delicate toes one time to many, but I don’t give a shit about you or your huwt feelings, and I don’t think anyone else does either.
Jenny
Cole,
You’re forgetting how addicted they are to words.
That’s all they really wanted is someone to feed them red meat. Obama repealed DADT but they pissed and moaned because it wasn’t accompanied by an angry speech. Obama stopped deportations of illegal aliens but they ignored that and freaked out because Obama didn’t use some pulpit.
They never really wanted accomplishments, what they wanted is words.
Blogreeder
@Kola Noscopy:
Wow. So, ah, where did you get the story about the passport?
Jenny
@Davis X. Machina: Win
aisce
@ danny
still not getting it. it has nothing to do with cole. it has nothing to do with hypocrisy. it has nothing to do with anything you have said or will say. you could have been a brand new poster.
you tried to show the class how tough you were against “defeatocrats,” but i knew you were a gaping vagina instead, so i messed with you to screw around. and here you are, six hours later, still posting and apparently terrified to type the word ‘fuck.’ hilarious.
it’s ok, child, it has a u in it, not a hyphen. your mom won’t catch you spelling it out. and jeebus forgives. you’re all clear. feel free to really let loose. maybe even call me a (gasp) sh-thead!
this has been trolling 101. class dismissed.
Kola Noscopy
@Blogreeder:
Not that you’re really interested, but here ya go:
The searchers found several clues, he said, but would not elaborate. Last week, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center. “It was a significant piece of evidence for us,” Mawn said.
also
I was mistaken however: the passport was not Atta’s, but belonged to another hijacker.
Danny
@aisce:
I tried to show nobody nothing. I want progressive policy and we wont get it if we mope and sulk all the time. I said what I believe is best for my party and country, imho, take it or leave it.
Again, I don’t give a shit about your trolling / being an idiot whatever. As far as I’m concerned that shit’s appropriate on /b/ and not useful on most other places, but since it’s part of the culture here there’s not much to do about it.
You’ve declared now you post only for shits and giggles so from now on I’ll assume whatever you post is for shits and giggles and nothing more. The upside of this place is you have a user name and if you say you’re a habitual troll you only have to say that once. That will save us both time.
Paul in KY
@JWL: I would like a bumper sticker saying that.
Blogreeder
@Kola Noscopy:
Thanks for the info. At least it wasn’t from a conspiracy site. Did you notice the story is dated a week after 9-11? As I recall, there was a still a lot of rumors back then. Also, the story didn’t say how it was found, did it? Maybe it was part of a bunch of things from the plane. But, you’re right, I’m not really interested because I think truthers are pretty wacky.
Kola Noscopy
@Blogreeder:
What is your definition of a “truther?”
You might have noticed that the passport finding was confirmed in a press conference a week from the day it was allegedly found. The assertion that it was found was NOT a “rumor,” unless perhaps in the sense that it was intended to be just that.
In a nutshell, my position is that the government has put out far too much bullshit regarding 9/11 and a hundred other issues over the last 50 years to have its word taken at face value on ANYTHING. Extreme skepticism toward any government claim is simply a prudent approach. What are you afraid of?