John–one more reason to like GOP Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee*. This is refreshingly honest…
“You know, I’ve never hated the Clintons. I still don’t, I have great respect for them. He made a lot of mistakes — a lot of personal ones — but you know something that I think should not be forgotten. There’s two things about Bill Clinton I tell Republicans, it drives them nuts, but here it is.
Number one, don’t get it lost on you that a kid out of a very small, Southern rural state aspired to be President of the United States. This kid came from a dysfunctional family — alcoholic abusive father. And yet he didn’t just aspire, he was elected president of the United States not once, but twice. That is an affirmation of the system. And it’s a wonderful testament to give to every kid in America that no matter where you’ve come from, you’ve got an opportunity to do something extraordinary
The second thing, and this’ll really wrangle, again, some of my Republican colleagues. Bill Clinton and Hillary went through some horrible experiences in their marriage, because of some of the reckless behavior that he has admitted he had. I’m not defending him on that — it’s indefensible. But they kept their marriage together. And a lot of the Republicans who have condemned them, and who talk about their platform of family values, interestingly didn’t keep their own families together.”
Too bad for Huckabee, the combination of honesty and failure to demonize the Clintons is deadly for a GOP hopeful.
* “Like” only in the sense that in a field of GOP asshats I would never vote for, he seems like a decent enough guy. But still no one I want to be President.
Isn’t Huckabee one of the yokels who refuses to acknowledge evolution? He can say whatever he wants to about Clinton…hell, he can ask for 10 minutes alone with Bill and a cigar for all I care…no respecting science, no vote, no way.
No moderate will buy his schtick if he’s still telling us that we rode dinosaurs to the Kwiki-Mart.
4.
mrmobi
Just a quick note from a graphic designer to the person who designed the Pajamas Media ad featuring Fred Thompson which sometimes appears on this page.
If your goal was to make the candidate look like a 200-year-old woman… you succeeded! Congrats, and could you do some ads for the other Party of Torture candidates, please?
5.
Face
If your goal was to make the candidate look like a guy married to a 200-year-old woman… you succeeded!
Don’t worry, Punchy, he’s cooked. People with brains won’t go for the anti-science, and the brainless fundies won’t go for the quote above.
7.
Punchy
Senor Fury–
This begs the bazillion dallah question– How in hell does the GOP think it can both fire up Teh Crazies and appeal to the moderates necessary to win? Aren’t the requisite platforms necessary to get both mutually exclusive?
How can The Huckster schlepp into a rally and say, “Clinton was a good man, but carbon-dating sounds like something the men do in San Fran”??
Minister: Death To My Tax Status Critics
Calif. Clergyman Condemns Those Who Complained To IRS Criticizing His Political Endorsement Of Huckabee
(AP) A California minister who used church stationery and an Internet radio program to endorse former Gov. Mike Huckabee for president is asking his followers to pray for the deaths of those who filed a complaint against him with the IRS.
The Rev. Wiley S. Drake of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., called for “imprecatory prayer” targeting Barry W. Lynn, Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
“The prayer does call for serious, serious punishment on people. But I didn’t call for that, God did,” said Drake, a native of Magnolia who completed a term in June as second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Huckabee is a Southern Baptist minister.
The Americans United for Separation of Church and State asked the IRS to investigate whether it was proper for Drake to endorse Huckabee. Churches that endorse candidates are subject to losing their tax-exempt status.
Drake said in a telephone interview Thursday that neither he nor the church violated the law and insisted he could use church stationery and the Internet program to “personally” endorse a political candidate. He said the Bible calls for imprecatory prayer when someone “attacks the church.”
On his Internet show, in a news release on ChristianNewsWire, and in an e-mail to Americans United, Drake called on others to pray that the Americans United officials be punished.
He gave as examples of imprecatory prayer:
“Persecute them. … Let them be put to shame and perish.”
“Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”
“Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg.”
How in hell does the GOP think it can both fire up Teh Crazies and appeal to the moderates necessary to win?
Ha! Don’t I know it! Rove wedge-painted them into a corner. They have one hand and it’s terror and war and that’s it. All this other crap is just infighting.
Whoever gets the nomination will have to ditch this stuff and go all death all the time.
12.
Wilfred
Wiley S. Drake? Sounds like someone out of Looney Toons.
A bunch of envromentalists wackos in europe have climbed naked onto a glacer to call attention to global warming which only proves how rediclous and stupid they can get when proving their rediclous and stupid
When the topic came up again Tuesday night in a CNN-sponsored debate in New Hampshire, one of those evolution skeptics, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, offered a spirited defense of the biblical creation narrative.
“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth,” said Huckabee, an ordained Baptist minister. “A person either believes that God created the process or believes that it was an accident and that it just happened all on its own.”
Huckabee also said that if Americans “want a president who doesn’t believe in God, there’s probably plenty of choices. But if I’m selected as president of this country, they’ll have one who believes in those words that God did create.”
He went on to quote Martin Luther: ” ‘Here I stand, I can do no other.’ And I will not take that back.”
Huckabee later added, “If anybody wants to believe that they are the descendants of a primate, they are certainly welcome to do it.”
However, when pressed about whether he believed in a literal interpretation of the timeline laid out in Genesis — that God created the world in six days about 6,000 years ago — Huckabee said, “I don’t know.”
Honest? Likeable? Get serious, people. This motherfucker is just a crowd pleaser a la Ronald Reagan.
“I don’t know?” That’s a skillful a weasel answer as any I have seen. He does know, he knows what he believes and he is a fucking religious lunatic in a nice suit and with a nice manner of speaking. He is the archetype of the stealth religious asshole who pretends to be moderate because he knows that his true beliefs would scare the crap out of a lot of people.
But please, keep pimping this guy, I am fine with the GOP putting him up as their candidate.
Huckabee later added, “If anybody wants to believe that they are the descendants of a primate, they are certainly welcome to do it.”
However, when pressed about whether he believed in a literal interpretation of the timeline laid out in Genesis—that God created the world in six days about 6,000 years ago—Huckabee said, “I don’t know.”
TZ’s right. That’s a crap answer, and likely to placate no one. If you believe it, stand up for it. If you don’t believe it, and you’re afraid to say so, you’re not fooling the people who don’t or impressing the people who do.
19.
Stooleo
I don’t post here that often, but I figured this group would appreciate this bit of unhindged right wing raving. Courtesy of crooks and liars
That’s a skillful a weasel answer as any I have seen. He does know, he knows what he believes and he is a fucking religious lunatic in a nice suit and with a nice manner of speaking. He is the archetype of the stealth religious asshole who pretends to be moderate because he knows that his true beliefs would scare the crap out of a lot of people.
So far, he hasn’t broken into any renditions of “Bomb Bomb Iran!” so he hasn’t crossed the line with me. A candidate who says, “I’m a Baptist Minister, and I believe in a 6000 year old earth” really doesn’t bother me as much as one who says, “I’m a pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun Mayor of New York, and I think we should nuke the next country that looks at us funny. Also, I’m gonna put cameras so thick across America, you’ll think they were a new form of plant life.”
Baptist Ministers, in the course of professing their faith, are required to say stupid things concerning philosophical Big Questions (“Where do we come from?”). I accept this as the nature of American Religion – hell, all religion. “Liberal” secular mayors, “Maverick” Arizona Senators, and “Middle Ground” Mass Governors do not claim a similar luxury when talking about domestic and foreign policy.
A bunch of envromentalists wackos in europe have climbed naked onto a glacer to call attention to global warming which only proves how rediclous and stupid they can get when proving their rediclous and stupid
There’s a WHOLE lotta pot calling kettle black here…
26.
mrmobi
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.
The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide. Israel provides the perfect example. If the Israelis do not raze Iran, the Iranians will fulfill their boast and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Yet Israel is not popular, and so is denied permission to defend itself. In the same vein, President Bush cannot do what is necessary for the survival of Americans. He cannot use the nation’s powerful weapons. All he can do is try and discover a result that will be popular with Americans.
Thanks (I think) Stooleo, for that link. I’m going to assume that this is spoof, but let’s see if BIRDZILLA or 28Percent drop by to confirm that there are some brain dead types who think this would constitute an actual foreign policy.
Genocide, thy name is GOP.
27.
mrmobi
Oops, I forgot to block quote the first two graphs. It’s from the “article” that Stooleo provided upthread.
28.
Jake
Stooleo,
Tell me this is from The Onion. [Follows links]
Holy crap. Maybe it is along the lines of Landover Baptist?
And no offense but may I suggest Tinyurl.com?
29.
Zifnab
A guy who believes in magical thinking despite science and empirical evidence to the contrary, doesn’t bother you as a presidential candidate?
When magical thinking involves the origins of mankind and not the federal deficit or the deployment of US troops, then it doesn’t bother me, no.
We’ve had 43 Presidents in our day, and the vast majority of them didn’t believe in evolution (for perfectly valid reasons – the theory didn’t exist yet or wasn’t widely established), yet managed not to run the country into the ground. Belief in evolution isn’t my number one criteria for Commander-in-Chief. I’m sorry.
That said, Huckabee has been seriously lacking on his view of federal tax policy. And he hasn’t clearly defined his Iraq position. So I’m not voting for him either way. But if Barak Obama confessed he believed in Unicorns or Hillary Clinton admitted she was a scientologist, I wouldn’t scrub them off my voting card on that news alone. I don’t hold Republicans to any higher standard.
Holy Spoofatcular. If any one of us wrote this, the spoofometer would have exploded. Check out this gem:
When faced with the possible threat that the Iraqis might be amassing terrible weapons that could be used to slay millions of citizens of Western Civilization, President Bush took the only action prudence demanded and the electorate allowed: he conquered Iraq with an army.
This dangerous and expensive act did destroy the Iraqi regime, but left an American army without any clear purpose in a hostile country and subject to attack. If the Army merely returns to its home, then the threat it ended would simply return.
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.
I most certainly do. They are the party of the stupid, the party of the magical thinkers, the party of the religious fascists, the party of intolerance, the party of jingoism and the party of a phony war on terror.
I certainly hold their candidates to a higher standard, and when I see one sucking up to the stupid crazy people, I know what to do: Expose the crazy lying piece of crap for what he is.
A candidate who says, “I’m a Baptist Minister, and I believe in a 6000 year old earth” really doesn’t bother me
A guy who believes in magical thinking despite science and empirical evidence to the contrary, doesn’t bother you as a presidential candidate?
Way to selectively quote there, Bubba. Zifnab clearly said that such a person wouldn’t bother him as much as someone like Giuliani. He didn’t say such a person didn’t bother him at all.
And I have to agree with Zifnab. Speaking as a little-a atheist and enthusiastic Creationist basher, Huckabee’s stance on evolutionary theory isn’t anywhere near the top of my list of “reasons why not to vote for this guy.”
Creationist basher, Huckabee’s stance on evolutionary theory isn’t anywhere near the top of my list of “reasons why not to vote for this guy.”
It’s my opinion that failure to properly understand that risk, and act accordingly, is a powerful enabler to the process that gave us government by idiots.
You guys are just wrong on this and need to get a grip on reality. These people are toxic, and are running for president of the stupid people. How do you think George Bush got elected? Wake up.
38.
Punchy
Huckabee’s stance on evolutionary theory isn’t anywhere near the top of my list of “reasons why not to vote for this guy.”
Because denying logic, reason, overwhelming evidence, scientific method, common sense, and dismissing the professionalism and intellect of thousands and thousands of scientists across the globe just isn’t that big a deal, eh? Too much hair gel for ya?
Because denying logic, reason, overwhelming evidence, scientific method, common sense, and dismissing the professionalism and intellect of thousands and thousands of scientists across the globe just isn’t that big a deal, eh? Too much hair gel for ya?
To be fair, this is still an upgrade from the current model.
41.
Stooleo
Jake,
Never heard of Tinyurl.com. Thanks for the tip.
42.
Tony J
Either Philip Atkinson is the greatest spoof in the universe or he’s a very disturbed and dangerous loon.
Either way, for sheer, unadulterated Getting Everything Wrong the following quote put my jaw to the floor.
Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome – thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.
Except that:
A) Caesar ended up ventilated by his opponents in the Senate. Heck of a job ending the personal threat to your life there, Julius.
B) The civil-wars plaguing the Republic didn’t stop, but continued for another decade or so until Octavian beat Mark Antony at Actium.
C) Octavian was the first Emperor of Rome, not Caesar. I don’t care what the makers of Trivial Pursuit think, they’re just as wrong as this guy.
D) Ah, the ‘Known World’ even at the time was a lot bigger than the borders of the Roman Empire.
Amazing.
Why is everything so very, very wide?
43.
Zifnab
It’s my opinion that failure to properly understand that risk, and act accordingly, is a powerful enabler to the process that gave us government by idiots.
You guys are just wrong on this and need to get a grip on reality. These people are toxic, and are running for president of the stupid people. How do you think George Bush got elected? Wake up.
Bush got elected while polishing up his faux resume of (failed) oil Tycoon, (failed) baseball manager, (fake) cowboy, (pathetic) Texas Governor, and (completely phony) beer-drinking heckava guy. He ran for Class President and won, but while he played the “folksy” card, his handlers made sure everyone knew he was really a super-secret Reagan-esque genius.
Huckabee isn’t my man for a number of reasons. I don’t doubt that many of them stem from his inability to separate religious myth from proven reality (see: his tax ideas, his health care stance). But belief in religious fiction is merely a symptom of a deeper problem. It’s a mark against him, because it raises my suspicions, but I won’t vote against a man strictly on his religious beliefs if they lead him to make otherwise sound judgements. LBJ was a committed Christian and still managed to pass the Civil Rights Act. Jimmy Carter was an Evangelical who brought bibles to Soviet Russia, and yet he still embraced environmentalism and green energy. If either of these two men had expressed a belief in a 6000 year old earth, they would not have been worse Presidents. Likewise, if a candidate – say Dennis Kucinich – expresses strictly secular beliefs, or even staunchly atheist beliefs, I will not be more likely to vote for them. Especially if they’re as detached from reality as Kucinich is on a number of domestic and foreign policy fronts.
44.
demimondian
You know, I don’t really care whether you personally believe in evolution or not. It’s not that important an issue for me.
What *is* important is whether or not you let that belief get in the way of public policy. You don’t have to believe in evolution to determine that climate change is happening. You don’t have to believe in evolution to argue that civil rights for gay men and lesbian women are abused on a regular basis. You don’t have to believe in Christ’s charity to argue that there are people who should be kept out of the United States, and, failing that, expelled.
If the only reason to back a particular policy is my religious beliefs, I consider that a mark against the policy (and, for what it’s worth, my religious beliefs). Over the centuries, we’ve found that the tree of empiricism brings forth good fruit, at least as far as government is concerned, and that the tree of theocracy brings forth bad fruit. I labor under a religious mandate to pay attention to things like that.
I just wish my co-religionists remembered that, sometimes.
45.
Punchy
You know, I don’t really care whether you personally believe in evolution or not. It’s not that important an issue for me.
What is important is whether or not you let that belief get in the way of public policy.
This has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with suspension of reason and logic and theory in the face of overwhelming evidence. It has to do with ignoring the experts, blowing off the conclusions of 10,000+ published articles, and openly demonstrating a clear disdain (dismissal?) for science in general.
Would it concern you if he also thought the world is flat? At what point does his “religious beliefs” that you’re so indifferent to morph into a greater “this guy simply won’t accept reality and thus is unfit to run the country”??
46.
canuckistani
this guy simply won’t accept reality and thus is unfit to run the country
That’s the magic phrase. I’m only slightly bugged to see politicians espousing all kinds of religious nonsense for which there is no contradictory evidence, but it crosses the line when they won’t believe things that we have real, live physical evidence for. As far as I’m concerned, believing in creationism *is just the same* as believing the earth is flat, and just as damaging to one’s credibility.
If tunneling doesn’t restart, part of the mine will have been turned into a tomb. Despite that, Moore said there is recoverable coal in other parts of the 5,000-acre mine, and the company expected to resume operations at some point. He said he didn’t discuss that prospect with family members.
We wont/cant dig out the remains of your family members, but we’ll sure as hell keep diggin for the money maker!! I suspect a full-scale riot if/when this commences.
48.
demimondian
As far as I’m concerned, believing in creationism is just the same as believing the earth is flat, and just as damaging to one’s credibility.
In fact, the evidence in favor of evolution is quite a bit stronger than the evidence for heliocentrism — yes, I’m serious — and so rejecting the one is actually better evidence for utter insanity than is rejecting the other.
But, you know what? I don’t care. If you can compartmentalize your beliefs, I don’t care if you believe the earth is flat. Does it matter to the day to day performance of your job? If not, then *I don’t care*. _Gedanken sint frei_
If your beliefs get in the way of your job — approving plan b, mandating HPV vaccinations, teaching people about science — then I care a LOT. But, hey, guess what? That has nothing to do with the beliefs, per se, but rather with the actions those beliefs inspire. I can measure those, and their effects. I can’t measure your thoughts, and I wouldn’t if I could.
49.
Pb
Huckabee’s position in the third debate on how long the creation might have taken is ignorance:
MR. BLITZER: Governor, but — but — (applause) — I think the specific question — the specific question is do you believe literally it was done in six days and it occurred 6,000 years ago?
MR. HUCKABEE: No, I did answer that, Wolf. I said I don’t know. My point is, I don’t know; I wasn’t there. (Laughter.) But I believe whether God did it in six days or whether he did it in six days that represented periods of time, he did it, and that’s what’s important.
But, you know, if anybody wants to believe that they are the descendants of a primate, they are certainly welcome to do it. I don’t know how far they will march that back. But I believe that all of us in this room are the unique creations of a God who knows us and loves us and who created us for his own purpose.
And it appears that such ignorance has a natural constituency within the Republican party:
If he does get traction in the form of campaign checks, Huckabee is likely to position himself as a candidate who can unite the country, even though he takes more conservative positions than the leading Republican candidates. An ordained Baptist minister, he is vocal about his religious beliefs, unassailably pro-life, a skeptic of evolution and an opponent of gay marriage. He was helped at the straw poll by supporters of Christian home-schooling, and the poll results may mean that Huckabee, at least on Saturday, won the duel with Brownback for evangelical voters, who will loom large in the upcoming caucus. His showing may also reflect his enthusiastic backing of the so-called Fair Tax, which would replace the national income tax with a national sales tax. Fair Taxers were well-represented at the straw poll, even bringing a Fair Tax ferris wheel.
Under a Huckabee administration, Americans will finally be able to avoid those elitist ivory tower “schools” and their “knowledge”, to instead teach their children the inerrant, unchanging Biblical truths this nation may or may not have been founded on!
But, as a member of CTOA (Concern Trolls of America) you are obligated to take such a waffling view :)
However, what we are talking about here is the ability and willingness to think clearly, anlyitically and critically in an objective and dispassionate. Not the requirement to do so at the cost of all humanity, and emotion, but the ability and willingness to do so when it is appropriate to do so.
Holding on to a belief in Young Earth Creationism is a clear indicator that the subject cannot or will not do that kind of thinking and arrive at an independent and supportable conclusion that respects the evidence.
Such a person is unfit for high office, period. Why there is even discussion of the question is beyond me.
George Bush is what you get when you waffle on this.
QED.
51.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Huckabee’s stance on evolutionary theory isn’t anywhere near the top of my list of “reasons why not to vote for this guy.”
Because denying logic, reason, overwhelming evidence, scientific method, common sense, and dismissing the professionalism and intellect of thousands and thousands of scientists across the globe just isn’t that big a deal, eh? Too much hair gel for ya?
You know, when I say something like, “this isn’t near the top of my list of reasons why not to vote for this guy,” that is usually read to mean, “I think that there are other more important reasons not to vote for this guy” — compared to them, his stance on evolutionary theory is down in the noise.
Why this was read as some kind of backhanded endorsement for Huckabee escapes me.
I think you are trying, and failing, to make a ‘no religious test’ argument.
But see, nobody who professed belief in a religion that practices puppy eating could get elected in this country, and that is as it should be, religious test or no.
Besides, your argument puts the lie to the no test position. You are applying a test. You are saying, believe what you like, but don’t act in accordance with your beliefs.
Even for an accomplished concern troll, that’s a stretch of the imagination.
LBNL, Republicans rode to power on a wave of values demagoguery. Let them now perish on that wave. Fuck this guy. He’s a religious nut, and he doesn’t deserve to be president of a homeowners’ association, much less a country.
Why this was read as some kind of backhanded endorsement for Huckabee escapes me.
Surely a guy with a grumpy monkey handle can understand how we might respond like a bunch of grumpy monkeys?
Just — OOH OOH AAH AHH — saying.
54.
Punchy
“I think that there are other more important reasons not to vote for this guy”—compared to them, his stance on evolutionary theory is down in the noise.
Jesus, you people are obtuse. Once again, it has little to do with “evolution theory” by itself. It has NOTHING to do with religion. Instead, it’s evidence–a dire symptom–of a person who will not engage facts, consider clear evidence, and apply rational thought to questions that are presented to him. THIS is why his beliefs on evolution are a huge red flag on his leadership skills.
Of course you hope he won’t bring this mindset into his day-to-day ops of the country, but what in hell gives you such confidence? Would you trust a guy who abuses his wife, but promises not to do so at work, to run a nursery? No, you wouldn’t. Likewise, you must infer that Huckabee cannot or will not accept certain clear, obvious facts as truth, and instead is using some other, undefined and untestable method to form his reality.
That’s what this debate is about, IMO.
55.
demimondian
you must infer that Huckabee cannot or will not accept certain clear, obvious facts as truth, and instead is using some other, undefined and untestable method to form his reality
Hmm. Punchy, I live with a woman who did some of the seminal work on the evolution of body structure. I’ve heard the evidence for evolution many, many times.
There’s no reasonable doubt that the theory is correct — but to state that its correctness is a clear and obvious fact is equally unreasonable. Accepting the correctness of natural selection in an empirical manner requires a bunch of very subtle questions, many of which don’t make any sense until you ask them. What’s the mechanism of selection? What is the primary mechanism of structural elaboration? Those are questions which are critical, but hard, and not at all clear.
Even the basic evidence for an old Earth isn’t all that straightforward. The first discrete argument against Young Earth Creationism, for instance, was derived from the layers of lava flows out of Vesuvius.
Huckabee is a nice enough guy, but he’s a tax and spender, “Fair Tax” ferris wheel notwithstanding. He’s Brownback-lite. If you want a principled, conservative Republican, choose the real deal. Think Brownback.
There’s no reasonable doubt that the theory is correct—but to state that its correctness is a clear and obvious fact is equally unreasonable
That a sentient, supposedly educated person can listen to the evidence against the Young Earth belief system and conclude that he “doesn’t know” whether it’s true is a disqualifier for being the most powerful decision maker on earth. Period.
No sufficient argument has been made which refutes that assertion here, and …. unless we dip into the well of spoof, no such argument will be attempted.
Let’s go to the interview transcript:
(for the position of Most Powerful Man on Earth):
Panel: Mister candidate, do you believe that the earth is flat?
Candidate: It looks flat. But I really don’t know, and I surely am not going to recommend to folks that they get too close to the edge.
Panel: Next!
58.
Punchy
There’s no reasonable doubt that the theory is correct—but to state that its correctness is a clear and obvious fact is equally unreasonable
Are you kidding me? You’re playing the semantics game, whereby anyone who claims a science theory/law is “fact” is “unreasonable”. Yes, I know where you’re going with this, and it’s laughable. It’s the same argument made about whether gravity exists, since we cannot “see” it. Of course it’s not proven; nothing in science is. That’s not my point.
Evolution’s pretty easy, and I’m sure your woman and/or wife has explained it to you. Mutations cause random change, and environmental stresses select either for or against said change. Pretty simple. Proven? No. Is there any other mechanism? Can’t prove a negative.
Or, I guess, you can just throw away centuries of emperical evidence, fossil records, biochemical (DNA homology, etc) and just say “God did it”. Whatever.
Then will you take my word that it isn’t an easy theory to justify
Because we aren’t as gullible and vulnerable to jackalope swarms as your ploy requires?
Nobody is arguing the proof of evolution theory. We’re arguing the invalidity of the 6000-year-old-earth theory, and the disqualification of a guy who won’t disavow it.
Apple, meet orange. For you, I have to point, we are talking about the fruit, not the company.
62.
srv
Imagine if our governors were getting blowed up weekly like this.
Would the WS take that as progress, or would it be a feature of freedom?
Imagine if our governors were getting blowed up weekly like this.
America has a long tradition of roadside bombs. For example, roadside bombs were used to defeat the British in the Revolutionary War.
Pickett’s Charge, long thought to be a rush of men across a field and over a fence at Gettysburg, was actually a few pounds of gunpowder in a bomb alongside the Taneytown Road.
And who can forget the roadside bomb that Tim McVeigh used to expose the venality of the Clinton Administration?
Iraq is really just a microcosm of America. Why do you hate America?
64.
srv
Iraq is really just a microcosm of America.
If only…
65.
Punchy
Do you know the details of the arguments for evolution? No? Then will you take my word that it isn’t an easy theory to justify? No?
Yes, I do know the arguments. It’s justifications have been apparent for over a century. Is it completely nailed down? No. That doesn’t matter; there’s enough evidence available for evolution, and ZERO evidence that we were created 6K years ago, that for Huckabee to claim otherwise is called ignoring all the evidence, and further, reality as we best know it.
But keep fighting the good fight.
66.
demimondian
No, Punchy, you don’t know the arguments — not if you think it’s been nailed down for more than a century. Mueller’s work, for instance, is all well after 1910.
But, like you say, keep fighting the good fight.
67.
Punchy
No, Punchy, you don’t know the arguments—not if you think it’s been nailed down for more than a century. Mueller’s work, for instance, is all well after 1910.
Please don’t tell me what I don’t know. If you knew my background, you’d STFU. Peace out.
68.
demimondian
Punchy, if you think the core questions were answered a century ago, then you’re simply wrong. The groundwork had been done, and Darwin’s core thesis was understood, but it certainly wasn’t universally accepted by the scientific community, due to a lack of mechanism. Without Muller, for substrate, and Lewis, for mechanism, the combinatorial issues would never have been resolved.
For the sake of scientists everywhere, though, please stop fighting the good fight for a while, and leave it to people who actually understand the subtleties of the field. It’s not a simple issue, and part of what makes it compelling is that it wasn’t a simple issue, and scientists asked and answered lots of very hard questions — much harder questions than the dominionist community has ever thought to ask.
69.
David
Fox News now spends only 8% of their time covering the Iraq War, less than half the time of the other cable networks… and the Instapundit says that this is proof that things are getting better over in Iraq?
How does one even begin to parody stuff like that anymore?
70.
Punchy
For the sake of scientists everywhere, though, please stop fighting the good fight for a while, and leave it to people who actually understand the subtleties of the field. It’s not a simple issue, and part of what makes it compelling is that it wasn’t a simple issue, and scientists asked and answered lots of very hard questions—much harder questions than the dominionist community has ever thought to ask.
You’re so full of shi….nevermind. It’s not worth my time making you look like an a….
In light of Demi’s misgivings of evolution theory, I hereby grant that Creationism is a legitimate theory, simply because we haven’t crunched every single mathematical formula associated with the minute of gene rearrangements.
71.
Pb
In light of Demi’s misgivings of evolution theory, I hereby grant that Creationism is a legitimate theory, simply because we haven’t crunched every single mathematical formula associated with the minute of gene rearrangements.
Indeed–God still hand-folds all the proteins.
72.
ATS
“busy, busy, busy”
And now we know why:
W.Va. University Tops Party School List
Washington Post –
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Mr Furious
John–one more reason to like GOP Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee*. This is refreshingly honest…
Too bad for Huckabee, the combination of honesty and failure to demonize the Clintons is deadly for a GOP hopeful.
* “Like” only in the sense that in a field of GOP asshats I would never vote for, he seems like a decent enough guy. But still no one I want to be President.
cleek
and here’s Huckabee distancing himself from a real religious nutball.
hmm
Punchy
Isn’t Huckabee one of the yokels who refuses to acknowledge evolution? He can say whatever he wants to about Clinton…hell, he can ask for 10 minutes alone with Bill and a cigar for all I care…no respecting science, no vote, no way.
No moderate will buy his schtick if he’s still telling us that we rode dinosaurs to the Kwiki-Mart.
mrmobi
Just a quick note from a graphic designer to the person who designed the Pajamas Media ad featuring Fred Thompson which sometimes appears on this page.
If your goal was to make the candidate look like a 200-year-old woman… you succeeded! Congrats, and could you do some ads for the other Party of Torture candidates, please?
Face
Fixed.
Mr Furious
Don’t worry, Punchy, he’s cooked. People with brains won’t go for the anti-science, and the brainless fundies won’t go for the quote above.
Punchy
Senor Fury–
This begs the bazillion dallah question– How in hell does the GOP think it can both fire up Teh Crazies and appeal to the moderates necessary to win? Aren’t the requisite platforms necessary to get both mutually exclusive?
How can The Huckster schlepp into a rally and say, “Clinton was a good man, but carbon-dating sounds like something the men do in San Fran”??
jenniebee
Must read piece in the NYT: The War as We Saw It
Mr Furious
When you lie down with fundies…
Nice. How can I get that God to love me?
Mr Furious
Cleek was there first, I didn’t realize where your link went when I posted above…
Mr Furious
Ha! Don’t I know it! Rove wedge-painted them into a corner. They have one hand and it’s terror and war and that’s it. All this other crap is just infighting.
Whoever gets the nomination will have to ditch this stuff and go all death all the time.
Wilfred
Wiley S. Drake? Sounds like someone out of Looney Toons.
ThymeZone
Does Huckabee think the earth is 6000 years old?
If “yes”, then he is disqualified. Period.
BIRDZILLA
A bunch of envromentalists wackos in europe have climbed naked onto a glacer to call attention to global warming which only proves how rediclous and stupid they can get when proving their rediclous and stupid
ThymeZone
Honest? Likeable? Get serious, people. This motherfucker is just a crowd pleaser a la Ronald Reagan.
“I don’t know?” That’s a skillful a weasel answer as any I have seen. He does know, he knows what he believes and he is a fucking religious lunatic in a nice suit and with a nice manner of speaking. He is the archetype of the stealth religious asshole who pretends to be moderate because he knows that his true beliefs would scare the crap out of a lot of people.
But please, keep pimping this guy, I am fine with the GOP putting him up as their candidate.
Mr Furious
Can’t confirm that on his site anywhere, but I did find this:
He’s way right on gun-control and abortion, though it should be noted he supports existing stem cell research.
Also hates teh gays and passed the ridiculous “Covenant Marriage” crap in Arkansas.
He’s a winger, he’s just a smiley one with a friendly face.
Jake
How long until broadcast companies start bidding on the rights to beam the Water Wars into your TeeVees?
Move over Suvivor and American Idol!
Mr Furious
TZ’s right. That’s a crap answer, and likely to placate no one. If you believe it, stand up for it. If you don’t believe it, and you’re afraid to say so, you’re not fooling the people who don’t or impressing the people who do.
Stooleo
I don’t post here that often, but I figured this group would appreciate this bit of unhindged right wing raving. Courtesy of crooks and liars
http://www.gnn.tv/threads/26858/Think_Tank_Suggests_Bush_should_be_President_For_Life
enjoy..
Dreggas
DHS keeping america safe from 7 year olds
Zifnab
So far, he hasn’t broken into any renditions of “Bomb Bomb Iran!” so he hasn’t crossed the line with me. A candidate who says, “I’m a Baptist Minister, and I believe in a 6000 year old earth” really doesn’t bother me as much as one who says, “I’m a pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun Mayor of New York, and I think we should nuke the next country that looks at us funny. Also, I’m gonna put cameras so thick across America, you’ll think they were a new form of plant life.”
Baptist Ministers, in the course of professing their faith, are required to say stupid things concerning philosophical Big Questions (“Where do we come from?”). I accept this as the nature of American Religion – hell, all religion. “Liberal” secular mayors, “Maverick” Arizona Senators, and “Middle Ground” Mass Governors do not claim a similar luxury when talking about domestic and foreign policy.
In a field full of land mines, Huckabee is a dud.
ThymeZone
A guy who believes in magical thinking despite science and empirical evidence to the contrary, doesn’t bother you as a presidential candidate?
Wow. Put me down as in serious disagreement with you on that, man. Honestly, your comment borders on spoof with me.
cleek
name one
Mr Furious
I haven’t officially announced yet.
Punchy
There’s a WHOLE lotta pot calling kettle black here…
mrmobi
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.
The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide. Israel provides the perfect example. If the Israelis do not raze Iran, the Iranians will fulfill their boast and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Yet Israel is not popular, and so is denied permission to defend itself. In the same vein, President Bush cannot do what is necessary for the survival of Americans. He cannot use the nation’s powerful weapons. All he can do is try and discover a result that will be popular with Americans.
Thanks (I think) Stooleo, for that link. I’m going to assume that this is spoof, but let’s see if BIRDZILLA or 28Percent drop by to confirm that there are some brain dead types who think this would constitute an actual foreign policy.
Genocide, thy name is GOP.
mrmobi
Oops, I forgot to block quote the first two graphs. It’s from the “article” that Stooleo provided upthread.
Jake
Stooleo,
Tell me this is from The Onion. [Follows links]
Holy crap. Maybe it is along the lines of Landover Baptist?
And no offense but may I suggest Tinyurl.com?
Zifnab
When magical thinking involves the origins of mankind and not the federal deficit or the deployment of US troops, then it doesn’t bother me, no.
We’ve had 43 Presidents in our day, and the vast majority of them didn’t believe in evolution (for perfectly valid reasons – the theory didn’t exist yet or wasn’t widely established), yet managed not to run the country into the ground. Belief in evolution isn’t my number one criteria for Commander-in-Chief. I’m sorry.
That said, Huckabee has been seriously lacking on his view of federal tax policy. And he hasn’t clearly defined his Iraq position. So I’m not voting for him either way. But if Barak Obama confessed he believed in Unicorns or Hillary Clinton admitted she was a scientologist, I wouldn’t scrub them off my voting card on that news alone. I don’t hold Republicans to any higher standard.
Punchy
Holy Spoofatcular. If any one of us wrote this, the spoofometer would have exploded. Check out this gem:
I’m speechless.
ThymeZone
I most certainly do. They are the party of the stupid, the party of the magical thinkers, the party of the religious fascists, the party of intolerance, the party of jingoism and the party of a phony war on terror.
I certainly hold their candidates to a higher standard, and when I see one sucking up to the stupid crazy people, I know what to do: Expose the crazy lying piece of crap for what he is.
Andrew
I challenge anyone to find a superior video by days end.
mrmobi
While I sort of agree with you, Zif, I myself draw the line at belief in unicorns.
On second thought, this…
… is more like it!
Mr Furious
That’s pretty funny.
Here’s my entry.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Way to selectively quote there, Bubba. Zifnab clearly said that such a person wouldn’t bother him as much as someone like Giuliani. He didn’t say such a person didn’t bother him at all.
And I have to agree with Zifnab. Speaking as a little-a atheist and enthusiastic Creationist basher, Huckabee’s stance on evolutionary theory isn’t anywhere near the top of my list of “reasons why not to vote for this guy.”
Mr Furious
That’s pretty funny.
Here’s my entry.
ThymeZone
It’s my opinion that failure to properly understand that risk, and act accordingly, is a powerful enabler to the process that gave us government by idiots.
You guys are just wrong on this and need to get a grip on reality. These people are toxic, and are running for president of the stupid people. How do you think George Bush got elected? Wake up.
Punchy
Because denying logic, reason, overwhelming evidence, scientific method, common sense, and dismissing the professionalism and intellect of thousands and thousands of scientists across the globe just isn’t that big a deal, eh? Too much hair gel for ya?
ThymeZone
He’s just so …. likeable.
Darn it.
Andrew
To be fair, this is still an upgrade from the current model.
Stooleo
Jake,
Never heard of Tinyurl.com. Thanks for the tip.
Tony J
Either Philip Atkinson is the greatest spoof in the universe or he’s a very disturbed and dangerous loon.
Either way, for sheer, unadulterated Getting Everything Wrong the following quote put my jaw to the floor.
Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome – thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.
Except that:
A) Caesar ended up ventilated by his opponents in the Senate. Heck of a job ending the personal threat to your life there, Julius.
B) The civil-wars plaguing the Republic didn’t stop, but continued for another decade or so until Octavian beat Mark Antony at Actium.
C) Octavian was the first Emperor of Rome, not Caesar. I don’t care what the makers of Trivial Pursuit think, they’re just as wrong as this guy.
D) Ah, the ‘Known World’ even at the time was a lot bigger than the borders of the Roman Empire.
Amazing.
Why is everything so very, very wide?
Zifnab
Bush got elected while polishing up his faux resume of (failed) oil Tycoon, (failed) baseball manager, (fake) cowboy, (pathetic) Texas Governor, and (completely phony) beer-drinking heckava guy. He ran for Class President and won, but while he played the “folksy” card, his handlers made sure everyone knew he was really a super-secret Reagan-esque genius.
Huckabee isn’t my man for a number of reasons. I don’t doubt that many of them stem from his inability to separate religious myth from proven reality (see: his tax ideas, his health care stance). But belief in religious fiction is merely a symptom of a deeper problem. It’s a mark against him, because it raises my suspicions, but I won’t vote against a man strictly on his religious beliefs if they lead him to make otherwise sound judgements. LBJ was a committed Christian and still managed to pass the Civil Rights Act. Jimmy Carter was an Evangelical who brought bibles to Soviet Russia, and yet he still embraced environmentalism and green energy. If either of these two men had expressed a belief in a 6000 year old earth, they would not have been worse Presidents. Likewise, if a candidate – say Dennis Kucinich – expresses strictly secular beliefs, or even staunchly atheist beliefs, I will not be more likely to vote for them. Especially if they’re as detached from reality as Kucinich is on a number of domestic and foreign policy fronts.
demimondian
You know, I don’t really care whether you personally believe in evolution or not. It’s not that important an issue for me.
What *is* important is whether or not you let that belief get in the way of public policy. You don’t have to believe in evolution to determine that climate change is happening. You don’t have to believe in evolution to argue that civil rights for gay men and lesbian women are abused on a regular basis. You don’t have to believe in Christ’s charity to argue that there are people who should be kept out of the United States, and, failing that, expelled.
If the only reason to back a particular policy is my religious beliefs, I consider that a mark against the policy (and, for what it’s worth, my religious beliefs). Over the centuries, we’ve found that the tree of empiricism brings forth good fruit, at least as far as government is concerned, and that the tree of theocracy brings forth bad fruit. I labor under a religious mandate to pay attention to things like that.
I just wish my co-religionists remembered that, sometimes.
Punchy
This has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with suspension of reason and logic and theory in the face of overwhelming evidence. It has to do with ignoring the experts, blowing off the conclusions of 10,000+ published articles, and openly demonstrating a clear disdain (dismissal?) for science in general.
Would it concern you if he also thought the world is flat? At what point does his “religious beliefs” that you’re so indifferent to morph into a greater “this guy simply won’t accept reality and thus is unfit to run the country”??
canuckistani
That’s the magic phrase. I’m only slightly bugged to see politicians espousing all kinds of religious nonsense for which there is no contradictory evidence, but it crosses the line when they won’t believe things that we have real, live physical evidence for. As far as I’m concerned, believing in creationism *is just the same* as believing the earth is flat, and just as damaging to one’s credibility.
Face
Reality, I suppose, but still…damn.
We wont/cant dig out the remains of your family members, but we’ll sure as hell keep diggin for the money maker!! I suspect a full-scale riot if/when this commences.
demimondian
In fact, the evidence in favor of evolution is quite a bit stronger than the evidence for heliocentrism — yes, I’m serious — and so rejecting the one is actually better evidence for utter insanity than is rejecting the other.
But, you know what? I don’t care. If you can compartmentalize your beliefs, I don’t care if you believe the earth is flat. Does it matter to the day to day performance of your job? If not, then *I don’t care*. _Gedanken sint frei_
If your beliefs get in the way of your job — approving plan b, mandating HPV vaccinations, teaching people about science — then I care a LOT. But, hey, guess what? That has nothing to do with the beliefs, per se, but rather with the actions those beliefs inspire. I can measure those, and their effects. I can’t measure your thoughts, and I wouldn’t if I could.
Pb
Huckabee’s position in the third debate on how long the creation might have taken is ignorance:
And it appears that such ignorance has a natural constituency within the Republican party:
Under a Huckabee administration, Americans will finally be able to avoid those elitist ivory tower “schools” and their “knowledge”, to instead teach their children the inerrant, unchanging Biblical truths this nation may or may not have been founded on!
ThymeZone
But, as a member of CTOA (Concern Trolls of America) you are obligated to take such a waffling view :)
However, what we are talking about here is the ability and willingness to think clearly, anlyitically and critically in an objective and dispassionate. Not the requirement to do so at the cost of all humanity, and emotion, but the ability and willingness to do so when it is appropriate to do so.
Holding on to a belief in Young Earth Creationism is a clear indicator that the subject cannot or will not do that kind of thinking and arrive at an independent and supportable conclusion that respects the evidence.
Such a person is unfit for high office, period. Why there is even discussion of the question is beyond me.
George Bush is what you get when you waffle on this.
QED.
Grumpy Code Monkey
You know, when I say something like, “this isn’t near the top of my list of reasons why not to vote for this guy,” that is usually read to mean, “I think that there are other more important reasons not to vote for this guy” — compared to them, his stance on evolutionary theory is down in the noise.
Why this was read as some kind of backhanded endorsement for Huckabee escapes me.
ThymeZone
I think you are trying, and failing, to make a ‘no religious test’ argument.
But see, nobody who professed belief in a religion that practices puppy eating could get elected in this country, and that is as it should be, religious test or no.
Besides, your argument puts the lie to the no test position. You are applying a test. You are saying, believe what you like, but don’t act in accordance with your beliefs.
Even for an accomplished concern troll, that’s a stretch of the imagination.
LBNL, Republicans rode to power on a wave of values demagoguery. Let them now perish on that wave. Fuck this guy. He’s a religious nut, and he doesn’t deserve to be president of a homeowners’ association, much less a country.
ThymeZone
Surely a guy with a grumpy monkey handle can understand how we might respond like a bunch of grumpy monkeys?
Just — OOH OOH AAH AHH — saying.
Punchy
Jesus, you people are obtuse. Once again, it has little to do with “evolution theory” by itself. It has NOTHING to do with religion. Instead, it’s evidence–a dire symptom–of a person who will not engage facts, consider clear evidence, and apply rational thought to questions that are presented to him. THIS is why his beliefs on evolution are a huge red flag on his leadership skills.
Of course you hope he won’t bring this mindset into his day-to-day ops of the country, but what in hell gives you such confidence? Would you trust a guy who abuses his wife, but promises not to do so at work, to run a nursery? No, you wouldn’t. Likewise, you must infer that Huckabee cannot or will not accept certain clear, obvious facts as truth, and instead is using some other, undefined and untestable method to form his reality.
That’s what this debate is about, IMO.
demimondian
Hmm. Punchy, I live with a woman who did some of the seminal work on the evolution of body structure. I’ve heard the evidence for evolution many, many times.
There’s no reasonable doubt that the theory is correct — but to state that its correctness is a clear and obvious fact is equally unreasonable. Accepting the correctness of natural selection in an empirical manner requires a bunch of very subtle questions, many of which don’t make any sense until you ask them. What’s the mechanism of selection? What is the primary mechanism of structural elaboration? Those are questions which are critical, but hard, and not at all clear.
Even the basic evidence for an old Earth isn’t all that straightforward. The first discrete argument against Young Earth Creationism, for instance, was derived from the layers of lava flows out of Vesuvius.
Psycheout
Huckabee is a nice enough guy, but he’s a tax and spender, “Fair Tax” ferris wheel notwithstanding. He’s Brownback-lite. If you want a principled, conservative Republican, choose the real deal. Think Brownback.
ThymeZone
That a sentient, supposedly educated person can listen to the evidence against the Young Earth belief system and conclude that he “doesn’t know” whether it’s true is a disqualifier for being the most powerful decision maker on earth. Period.
No sufficient argument has been made which refutes that assertion here, and …. unless we dip into the well of spoof, no such argument will be attempted.
Let’s go to the interview transcript:
(for the position of Most Powerful Man on Earth):
Panel: Mister candidate, do you believe that the earth is flat?
Candidate: It looks flat. But I really don’t know, and I surely am not going to recommend to folks that they get too close to the edge.
Panel: Next!
Punchy
Are you kidding me? You’re playing the semantics game, whereby anyone who claims a science theory/law is “fact” is “unreasonable”. Yes, I know where you’re going with this, and it’s laughable. It’s the same argument made about whether gravity exists, since we cannot “see” it. Of course it’s not proven; nothing in science is. That’s not my point.
Evolution’s pretty easy, and I’m sure your woman and/or wife has explained it to you. Mutations cause random change, and environmental stresses select either for or against said change. Pretty simple. Proven? No. Is there any other mechanism? Can’t prove a negative.
Or, I guess, you can just throw away centuries of emperical evidence, fossil records, biochemical (DNA homology, etc) and just say “God did it”. Whatever.
ThymeZone
I much prefer “Blame It On the Bossa Nova.”
demimondian
Punchy, why don’t you read what I wrote before you say stupid things?
Do you know the details of the arguments for evolution? No? Then will you take my word that it isn’t an easy theory to justify? No?
Good. Why not? Because it isn’t obvious whether it’s obvious or not. Why would you then assume that the theory is itself obvious?
ThymeZone
Because we aren’t as gullible and vulnerable to jackalope swarms as your ploy requires?
Nobody is arguing the proof of evolution theory. We’re arguing the invalidity of the 6000-year-old-earth theory, and the disqualification of a guy who won’t disavow it.
Apple, meet orange. For you, I have to point, we are talking about the fruit, not the company.
srv
Imagine if our governors were getting blowed up weekly like this.
Would the WS take that as progress, or would it be a feature of freedom?
ThymeZone
America has a long tradition of roadside bombs. For example, roadside bombs were used to defeat the British in the Revolutionary War.
Pickett’s Charge, long thought to be a rush of men across a field and over a fence at Gettysburg, was actually a few pounds of gunpowder in a bomb alongside the Taneytown Road.
And who can forget the roadside bomb that Tim McVeigh used to expose the venality of the Clinton Administration?
Iraq is really just a microcosm of America. Why do you hate America?
srv
If only…
Punchy
Yes, I do know the arguments. It’s justifications have been apparent for over a century. Is it completely nailed down? No. That doesn’t matter; there’s enough evidence available for evolution, and ZERO evidence that we were created 6K years ago, that for Huckabee to claim otherwise is called ignoring all the evidence, and further, reality as we best know it.
But keep fighting the good fight.
demimondian
No, Punchy, you don’t know the arguments — not if you think it’s been nailed down for more than a century. Mueller’s work, for instance, is all well after 1910.
But, like you say, keep fighting the good fight.
Punchy
Please don’t tell me what I don’t know. If you knew my background, you’d STFU. Peace out.
demimondian
Punchy, if you think the core questions were answered a century ago, then you’re simply wrong. The groundwork had been done, and Darwin’s core thesis was understood, but it certainly wasn’t universally accepted by the scientific community, due to a lack of mechanism. Without Muller, for substrate, and Lewis, for mechanism, the combinatorial issues would never have been resolved.
For the sake of scientists everywhere, though, please stop fighting the good fight for a while, and leave it to people who actually understand the subtleties of the field. It’s not a simple issue, and part of what makes it compelling is that it wasn’t a simple issue, and scientists asked and answered lots of very hard questions — much harder questions than the dominionist community has ever thought to ask.
David
Fox News now spends only 8% of their time covering the Iraq War, less than half the time of the other cable networks… and the Instapundit says that this is proof that things are getting better over in Iraq?
How does one even begin to parody stuff like that anymore?
Punchy
You’re so full of shi….nevermind. It’s not worth my time making you look like an a….
In light of Demi’s misgivings of evolution theory, I hereby grant that Creationism is a legitimate theory, simply because we haven’t crunched every single mathematical formula associated with the minute of gene rearrangements.
Pb
Indeed–God still hand-folds all the proteins.
ATS
“busy, busy, busy”
And now we know why:
W.Va. University Tops Party School List
Washington Post –