One thing I have not made clear since all this Swift Boat bit got hot and heavy was my position on 527’s/,political speech, etc.
I think McCain-Feingold was one of the worst pieces of legislation to ever be drafted, passed, and signed by a President.
I think there should be no regulations on political speech outside already existing legislation regarding libel and slander. Let it all hang out- the voters aren’t stupid.
I think there should be no limits on hard money, and thus soft money would not even be an issue. Let’s make it all legal and call them both what they really are: money.
I think the only requirement should be immediate disclosure of who donated.
So do I disagree with Bush about 527’s? Yes and no. I would not ban any speech, but like Bush, I think everyone should know who is funding what.
Is Bush’s blanket condemnation flawed? Yes, but it is a helluva lot more honest and straightforward than the bullshit the Kerry/Edwards camp is running, and I find the ‘free speech’ condemnations of Bush’s statements laughable. Bush wants consistent rules in place (albeit egregiously flawed), Kerry wants to sit and choose which ads air and don’t air. And Bush’s position has a totalitarian edge?
What this really boils down to is that the Democrats finally have a group that is throwing the same sort of shit in their faces that they have thrown at the Republicans and Bush for as long as I can remember. Nothing has been beyond the pale for these guys, all done in order to ‘win back our country,’ or to ‘save democracy.’ I am under no such illusion that Republicans are saints. How many times have you heard Democrats say ‘We have to fight like Republicans’ before sinking to a new low?
And the revelations that Bush supporters have fundedthe campaign proves what? I never once thought that Texas natives Paul Begala and Dan Rather funded it. And the idea that a millionaire Republican in Texas somehow knows Karl Rove- SHOCKING!. Rove was only the biggest political operative in Texas for 30 years. Clearly this is proof that the Bush campaign is running the Swift Botas 527. Idiots.
But just for fun, let’s take one quick trip down memory lane for smear campaigns and ad campaigns by Democrats that were ‘above the belt.’
– The gay whisper campaigns about Lyndsey Graham in 2002. Woops, that wasn’t a whisper campaign:
Democratic Senate candidate Alex Sanders in South Carolina attacked pro-gay Republican former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani of New York in a televised debate with his Republican opponent Lindsey Graham, saying that Giuliani
bains
But John, all those things were true, doncha read the news?
Beck
I still can’t believe McCain-Feingold survived a Supreme Court challenge on 1st ammendment grounds.
Justin Ogren
If you say War for Oil is a lie, your in deep denial of the third kind.
Dean
I find certain similarities between the Dems on FL 2000, and the Dems on 527s.
The Dems (Gore, specifically), wanted only CERTAIN counties recounted (this was the initial stance, and what ultimately felled the SCOFL decisions). The GOP (for its own, nefarious reasons–no moral superiority here) wanted to recount all the counties.
On 527s, Kerry-Edwards wants an end to the SBVFT ads, but apparently leaves their own Moveon.org ads alone. (If not, why would Dean, Clark, etc., echo Moveon’s points? Not for reasons of coordination, surely!) Dubya (for his own reasons) denounces ALL 527s.
As John Cole (and George Will, earlier!) notes, if there’d been no McCain-Feingold, there’d be a lot less of this nonsense to begin with.
Slartibartfast
“If you say War for Oil is a lie, your in deep denial of the third kind.”
And if you say it’s the truth, you’re a gibbering moonbat. I swear, you just can’t win these days.
shark
“Bring it on” has become “not in the face!”
If Kerry is such a pussy and can’t deal with these Swifties effectively, how can we expect him to deal with Iran>?
Tongue Boy
Subset of “Dean Campaign”:
Dean’s trope that Bush might have had foreknowledge of 9/11 was “an interesting idea.”
RW
Reality check: Justin, how much is a barrel of oil?
Class dismissed.
Grant R.
shark: “If Kerry is such a pussy and can’t deal with these Swifties effectively, how can we expect him to deal with Iran>?”
Now, I’m probably going to vote for Bush, but I’ve been seeing the meme encapsulated in the quote above in quite a few places, and I think its pretty dumb. Obviously, these situations are completely different.
HH
How about the “whisper campaign” that Jeb Bush was having an affair with Katherine Harris… hell, almost anything about Katherine Harris from the left except her idiotic claims about terrorism of late would count. See also: Linda Tripp, Ken Starr. Smear-city against those two.
And the Baucus and Graham stuff is just the tip of the iceberg for left-wing gay baiting against opponents.
Slartibartfast
“Bush Stole the Election”
Well, it appears someone might have.
Justin Ogren
Also, Fahrenheit 9/11 was an awesome piece of work.
Roger & Me was actually one of the pieces that inspired me to go into film besides my absolute most favorite film Mulholland Drive.
Slartibartfast, keep telling yourself there is no war for oil, and you can keep living it underneath the blankets. I mean, all you need is, hah, when the oil fields were burned in the gulf war, we were pretty much like, fuck this. We wouldn’t even be there in the first place, if there was no oil, I mean shit he didn’t have weapons and there are tons of other leaders that should be removed, but why Saddam?, oh oh oh plentiful oil to go around. HAHA yeah the price of oil is up, but do you ever look at WHENEVER THIS HAPPENS…..profits for the oil companies rocket, and they are like, uh uh, well we had to do it.
Carlisle group, was in the business for war and oil, and I mean you guys just sit back, uh naw that’s not true, Bush didn’t really go to Iraq for oil, UGH, it’s just WHAT, I don’t know anyone that blind except the old guy I worked for last week. At the highest level if you don’t see war for oil, just simple common sense will get you to know what the war is all about, if you really believe it was for liberation, your not letting the brain do that extra jump to stimulate the other cell on the other side. *The Ramones ‘Lobotomy’ plays in the backround*
Let’s all act like this whole Carlisle group thing never existed.
Dodd
John, you forgot some:
– MoceOn.Org reviving the infamous “Daisy” ad to use it against Bush.
– the DNC web cartoon that showed Bush pushing a wheelchair-bound old lady off a cliff to steal her Social Security.
– Kucinich’s ad that openly charged President Bush with killing thousands for no other reason than to enrich his rich buddies.
Slartibartfast
Justin, you’ve been spending way too much time drinking from the DU fountain. Out here in the real world, rhetoric doesn’t replace fact.
To recap your points, though, we fought this war to drive up oil prices. Your substantiation for this claim is what, exactly?
Justin Ogren
What foundation do you drink from Slartibartfast? Not the correct one, we went there so we’d have more of an abundant supply, control the oil market, shit Bush was in the business of oil, and so where his friends and daddy’s friends through life, doesn’t it just seem that when you give most of your tax cuts to your buddies, and do everything to help your buddies, he’s a buddy helper, not the American people helper. You don’t get the price of oil has nothing to do with it all, the control over Iraq’s oil is gonna stay ours, The price will surely jump up and down, and no matter the companies will profit from it
I’m sorry but Kucinich is pretty much dead on with the last one, if you don’t think Bush bombed all over the world for oil profits, there’s some wonder as to what information you like to take in, and what information you like to spit out. I mean if you haven’t seen the ploys to enrich his friends through his whole term of office I don’t know why you’d kid yourself. If you don’t believe me about the profits, lets take a look…..at the facts
Chevron’s profits have doubled this month, they are soaring
BP whom owns Arco, had just seem record profits, profits are up 20%
Also Exxon, has just seen record profits, which is said to have been propelled from the war in Iraq $7.04 billion dollars in one quarter!
Shell had also just benefited from the record oil prices
Anywhere you look in the game, they are up, while consumers are down.
I’m in the real world, and most of the ‘REAL’ people I know, know the truth, they know what this is all about, all you need is common sense…..that’s what they have, that’s what I have, and I know the war was for oil.
jcrue
Justin,
If this was about oil, why didn’t we invade Mexico?
RW
When do we get the oil, Justin?
Claiming that “everyone knows” is as easily done as pointing out when folks come across as tinfoil hat loons.
Wake me when we take over the oil fields.
Justin Ogren
I’m sorry but Mexico didn’t make the cut when we could propose a state of war because they didn’t have a Saddam, they don’t have a dictator, sure it could be better managed, but they weren’t on the US’s ‘top bad guy list’, Don’t mess with the top bad guy….we’ll give Osama a little jump start. Usually you don’t wanna fuck with your neighbor, unless you want constant shit back and forth, so do it overseas.
RW, we’ve been taking over the oil fields for years!
Slartibartfast
“What foundation do you drink from Slartibartfast?”
Why, the Second Foundation, of course.
Slartibartfast
I despair of getting an educated response from our friend Justin:
capt joe
yep, just the sort of guy that believes Moore. HAHA
Justin Ogren
“Slartibartfast missed the chance at knockin’ down Kerry’s war record”
Next in line, Justin Ogren, Who hails from Stockton, California. Just the sorta guy who believes Moore, average 21 year old. Let’s take a shot at his birthplace, hobbies, location or whatever we can get this guy on. Remember, conservatives hate one man more than John Kerry, and that’s Michael Moore, once ‘that sort of guy’ likes Moore’s films, it’s all over. This man is uneducated damnit….
Birthday: April 28, 1983 Biography: I’ve grew up in Stockton,CA. HAHA what a piece of shit. Livin’ in Sacramento now, ready to make some films n junk soon. Location: Sacramento,CA Interests: videogames, the pipe, skateboarding, film, collectin’ figures when I have money. Occupation: N/A
AWWW AWWW AWWW GUYS, isn’t that a Moorite and Mooron if you ever seen one?
RW
Thanks, Slart, that would explain the adolescent tone and immature delivery.
Justin, please post a link to a picture of one of the oil wells in Iraq that the US has commandered. A pic with an American flag over a well will suffice.
Got one?
Slartibartfast
Heh. What a buffoon. I couldn’t be less interested in Justin’s background; I just googled his name to if there was a place on the whole Internet where he’d written something worth considering. God knows we’ve had no luck squeezing any such material out of him, here.
Justin Ogren
RW, yes I do speak with the words of an 8 year old, and do deliver some ‘immature’ style as you would call it, to just, to just, somehow give a little insight to make everything easier to understand for ya.
So Slartibartfast, the only thing worth talking about, is shit that gets you nowhere? And the king of material I guess you need, is some thing produced right, something forged, to make ya happy?
Oh damn, your probably one of those guys that looks at those BP, “It’s a start” commercials and are like, damn right it’s a start, no more winters in Europe. HELL YEAH!
http://wisdomtools.com/~brbothwe/GulfWars.jpg
RW
FYI, Justin, I’m still waiting for a pic of one of the oil wells that the USA has stolen.
Perhaps a request for the location of one would be easier for you to accomplish?
Ah, so it’s MY fault that you present yourself in a sophmoric manner. How very Democrat of you to blame someone else for your failings.
You go get that pic/location as evidence, okay?
Slartibartfast
“So Slartibartfast, the only thing worth talking about, is shit that gets you nowhere?”
It seems to be what you’re most comfortable with. Just trying to be accomodating. If you’re interested in a more meaningful exchange, go right ahead.
RW
Day two & still awaiting definitive proof of us taking over oil fields.
Where are you, Justin? Did it get too hot?
Dean
RW:
Gawd, you’re an idiot, aren’t you? The presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia, the world’s largest producer of oil, should be ample evidence enough of the American effort to control the world’s oil. As Negri’s book…
[Psst.]
‘Scuse me.
[Mmble mmble]
Whaddaya mean we’ve withdrawn our troops from the world’s largest oil producer with the world’s largest reserves???? I’m just starting to…
[Psst. Mmmble mmble]
Never mind.
Justin Ogren
You know wasup with oil in Africa, dontcha RW
Slartibartfast
Yes, we’re invading countries in Africa right and left these days.
Justin Ogren
Not really that quick, but we’ll use military as a great boundary.
I swear if I ever post a link to a picture of an overtaken oil field with an American flag on it I think RW’s gonna nut until Sunday.
Dean
I think JO’s referring to the ongoing atrocities in Sudan and Darfur. You know, right where the oil concessions are.
Of course, those oil concessions happen to be run by the *French* and the *Chinese* oil companies. And who is opposing intervention into Darfur? Why, it’s FRANCE and CHINA!!!
Whereas the UK and the US have been pushing for intervention there. Is Josh arguing that France and China are somehow operating for humanitarian reasons, but the US and the UK are more interested in oil? Or what?
Slartibartfast
It’s very well possible that it is all about oil, but all the evidence points toward that it’s not the US that’s in it for oil.
Just look at who was involved in the Oil-for-Food abuses, and who’s currently involved in the countries in question in Africa. TotalFinaElf, anyone?