West Virginia is get ready to vote on whether or not to allow table gaming, so this piece in the NY Times is timely:
Gambling revenues, once a mere trickle, have become a critical stream of income in a number of states, in some cases surpassing traditional sources like the corporate income tax and helping states lower personal income or property taxes.
The sums are so alluring that some officials are concerned that their states are becoming as addicted as problem gamblers. “We’re drunk on gambling revenue,” said Representative Wayne A. Smith, the Republican who is House majority leader in the Delaware Legislature. “Gambling revenues are like free money.”
In Rhode Island, South Dakota, Louisiana, Oregon and, most of all, Nevada, taxes from casinos, slot machines at racetracks and lotteries make up more than 10 percent of overall revenues, according to a new report. In Delaware, West Virginia, Indiana, Iowa and Mississippi, gambling revenues are fast approaching 10 percent.
Anyone have expertise in this area? My gut instinct is to allow it, but I am sensitive to arguments that gaming really doesn’t create wealth so much as amount to a self-imposed transfer payment, and I am aware of the bnumber of other problems that follow the gaming industry. However, I wouild like to know more.
Mason
I don’t know about your neck of the woods, but we’re having the same argument here in Texas. There are two reasons I think we should legalize gambling: First, it’s a voluntary activity that doesn’t inherently hurt anyone and therefore should be legal. Second, the amount of money that leaves Texas for Louisiana and Nevada is staggering and would be better kept here.
Sav
Terri Schiavo has finally died.
Time for the celebration. She got her “wish,” justice and order have prevailed and the country has march toward theocracy has been stifled. We can all breathe easier.
Kimmitt
Back on topic, I tend to come down against gambling (or in favor of heavy restrictions) due to the fact that gambling appears to have the same level of psychological addiction as many controlled substances. Which may or may not be relevant to you, given your proclivities.
And yes, any gambling taxes are taxes on the gamblers, not the casinos — elastic supply, inelastic demand. Highly regressive.
Gary Farber
I’m no expert, but try this.
Farix
House Majority Leader Rick Staton says many Democrats aren’t willing to “get beaten up” by Republicans over table gaming in next year’s elections.
Yeah, Rick knows full well that he is one of the biggest targets. Considering how close he was to coming in third place during the last election (our district takes the top two), he should be treading very carefully.
Farix
One other thing that I heard on Metronews Talkline earlier today. One of the House leaders mentioned that the gambling bill is going to take a “backset” to other legislation, such as insurance reform.
Birkel
Just a “self-imposed transfer payment”?
So is going to a movie. Or buying broccoli.
That’s a terrible way to phrase what you meant, John. Not that I really could know what you meant after removing the above notion.
Does the fact that the people get something out of gambling, like excitement or time spent at a gaming table watching hotties bring drinks, count for nothing?
EXAMPLE: I go to a casino and lose a total of forty dollars. I spend a total of 4 hours at the casino. Not all of that time is spent gambling. I got a night out. I got the excitement of potentially winning. I got the experience of hanging out with my boys.
How is the above example any different than going to a club to drink $8 gin and tonics after paying a $20 cover charge to hear a band?
Save me your protections from myself.
NotMyNormalPseudonym
In all seriousness, I’ve lost almost 20 thousand dollars at casinos over the last year. I am an addict and I’ve known it without a doubt since a couple weeks after I started (last January) and I loathe myself for it.
I’m also a small-L libertarian and this is the first thing I’ve run into that’s made me question some of the fundamental tenets of the libertarian worldview.
I’m not going to try to make any sort of policy prescription based on my personal experience, but since you asked, yes, there is a certain side of this issue that I have some expertise in.
There’s way too much to this story to write out in comments on a blog, but I just want to say that I don’t think my own personal susceptibility to gambling addiction would have ever taken root if there weren’t a casino just 20 miles away. From what I can tell, easy availability and repetition are huge contributing factors to addiction.
Anyway, it’s my problem, not anyone else’s, but I can tell you I’m a lot less dismissive of nanny-state anti-drug arguments (for the truly addictive stuff) than I used to be.
Mike Jones
I grew up in Western North Carolina. I will never forget the first time I went back to visit my parents after a casino opened on the nearby Cherokee reservation. There were dozens of “payday loan” shops, something I’d never before seen in the area. I couldn’t prove it was related to the appearance of the casino, but I think it’s a pretty strong circumstantial case.
Birkel
There’s a sucker born every minute.
A fool and his money will soon be parted. (or something close to that)
The point is that if not for gambling it’d be something else. And the state can’t solve all the “something else’s” without having complete control over my life. And yours too.
Got a gambling problem? Go see a lawyer. Get direct deposits into a trust account that automatically pays your bills and won’t let you have money without receipts. Even the local grocer will allow you to pay in advance in such an arrangement. Cancel all your credit cards. Be proactive. Take responsibility.
I went to WCU and used to work in Cherokee. You know what I remember? The big biker rally. It was always peaches and cream as I recall. Peaches. And. Cream.
Well, that and beer can pyramids and biker chicks with their boobs showing. And drugs. But now there are “payday loan” (scare quotes warning) and you’re all up in arms?
Farix
I see everyone is going on a tangent about gambling addictions. But the real issue is states turning to gambling as a revenue source.
The sad fact about West Virginia is that it has one of the most regressive and outright punitive tax systems in the nation, especially were businesses are concerned. This is why most major businesses in West Virginia have been looking to move out of the state. And of those that do come are all the often the recipients of huge tax deals. But instead of reforming the tax code, which will result in some short term short fall, they look at gambling instead.
Kimmitt
The point is that if not for gambling it’d be something else.
This appears to not really be the case, for some reason.
Birkel
Proof of that, puddin’ head Kimmitt?
wild bird
In one of our cities here in northern calfornia they are talking about having a CASSINO here i mean we here would,nt need any cassino if we had logging again
Stephen Katz
The Fallacy of Online Poker Gambling
by Stephen Katz
Online poker is rapidly becoming one of the most popular gambling games at gambling websites on the internet. The main reason for this popularity is the belief that it is a game of skill in which money could be won. This belief is a fallacy. Skillful play will never help gamblers to win money at online poker because winning money at online poker is impossible.
Online poker is a game of skill only to the extent that skillful play would allow gamblers to lose their money slower. Money could temporarily be won in the short-run. In the long-run though, the gambling “house” which operates the gambling website, will permanently win all the money from all of the players. With a fast played game such as poker, the short-run quickly becomes the long-run when playing enough hands. Each hand played whether winning or losing any particular hand, slowly disintegrates the bankroll of every gambler. There is not anything that gamblers can do to save their bankrolls except to never play online poker.
The top poker players in the world do not play poker at gambling websites. Some top poker players may say they do only because of getting paid for endorsements. These top poker players know they can beat the other players, but that they cannot beat the house. There is not anybody on the face of this earth who can make money playing online poker. Even the world’s best poker player will never be good enough to overcome the “rake” which is the house cut from each pot.
“It takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master” is a phrase used by some gambling website promoters to describe the poker game of Texas Holdem. This phrase is true when playing against other poker players if there is not any rake. But this phrase is false for online poker because of the rake involved. Gambling house promoters know this phrase is false for their poker. Yet they keep parroting this phrase to fool you into thinking that even though you keep losing money at their website, that one day you could “master” Texas Holdem and then start making money. This phrase for online Texas Holdem should be corrected to truthfully state, “It takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to lose money.”
Here is an example of how the gambling house will always win all the money from all of the players. Five players sit-in on an online poker game each with a $20 bankroll for a total at the website table of $100. Let’s say the average pot is $10 and the rake is 5% or 50 cents per hand. Let’s say 200 hands are played which does not take that long. After 200 hands, that 50 cents rake per hand totals $100 which is the entire amount that all of the players started with at the website table. Of course not all of the players go broke at the exact same time and fresh money can come into the game. But sooner or later each gambler will eventually lose their $20 bankroll every time without exception. If bringing in $20 more, that will also eventually be lost. Every amount brought in will eventually be lost through continued play. Those are the facts in a nutshell. Any honest mathematician, statistician, or numbers expert who understands the game of poker, would not dispute the example in this paragraph.
Now knowing that money cannot be won playing online poker, here are three more nails in the online poker coffin so that this complete waste of your money, time and life can be buried:
1. How do you know the other online poker players are real? You could be the only real player at the website table with the rest being software program players which would be programmed so that you could not possibly win even in the short-run.
2. How do you know the cards are a randomly dealt deck? You would eventually lose your money anyway even with a randomly dealt deck. However some gambling houses do not want to wait that long to fleece you out of your money. The cards could be rigged in any which way to assure that you will lose quicker. They can easily rig any hand. For instance you could have four kings on the flop but a software program player gets a fourth ace at the river to beat you.
3. How do you know a gambling website can be trusted with your bank account and credit card information? Without your knowledge, they can easily clean out your bank account and max out your credit card anytime they wanted. After they do this, even if locating them in their country of origin and getting them hauled into court, they could just falsify some computer records and claim that you gambled away the money. It is highly unlikely that a judge from their country is going to rule in your favor.
There are a good number of dishonest gambling websites out there just waiting to steal money from you. But even if you did happen to find the most honest, forthright, respectable gambling house that exists, it still is a money fleecing business which would be most happy to financially destroy you. Do not give them the pleasure no matter how nice their website appears to be. Do not give them the pleasure no matter how friendly their promoters seem to be. Do not give them the pleasure for any reason.
These gambling houses along with their slick marketing campaigns are very clever at trying to influence you into gambling. Do not believe any advertising or information from gambling websites or other sources which state or imply that money can be made playing online poker. Do not let them fool you but if they have, then permanently delete their money fleecing software from your computer.
You have a choice to follow the guidance of this article or play online poker. Playing online poker will cost you money and quite possibly a lot of money. You may get addicted to it even if believing that could not happen. It very well can happen. Unfortunately, getting addicted to online poker has happened to many people. But even if never technically getting addicted to online poker, isn’t it foolish to play a game in which losing your money is a certainty? Losing money is not only true for online poker, but for all other gambling games on the internet. There are not and never will be any exceptions. You are absolutely, positively, guaranteed to lose your money. Those are the facts. Do not allow gambling promoters or anyone else to convince you otherwise.
Please make the right choice, the smart choice and the necessary choice to never play the money losing game of online poker or any other online gambling game. Keep your money in your bank account where it belongs. Your money does not belong in the bank account of a gambling house.
Stephen Katz