I honestly can say that I do not know one person who is against people immigrating lawfully to the United States. Not one. Maybe someone I know is cowed by a sense of social desirability and honestly hates all stinkin’ fur’ners, but right now I honestly do not know anyone who is anti-immigration.
I do, however, know lots of people who are very worried about the rampant illegal immigration occurring on our southern border. I am not even going to leap into the tar baby pits and start a big debate over whether illegal immigrants who act as migrant workers, construction workers, or whatever are a net boon or drain on the economy.
Other people with axes to grind can have their own discussions elsewhere on the issue. Personally, I am right on the fence- part of me acknowledges that the cheap labor is good for the economy, the other part of me understands that this sort of unregulated cheap labor can have a deleterious impact on wage deflation for all workers. But again, that is besides the point.
What is important, however, is that in a post 9/11 world, it is extremely distressing to me that I am forbidden to carry a lighter on an airplane, am basically strip-searched and questioned if I want to fly anywhere, have granted all sorts of new powers to the government regarding warrant acquisitions, have a country that is fighting an actual war on two fronts, yet all the while, there is a several thousand mile GAPING HOLE that you can drive a million terrorists through every year. Or, if you believe the reports, several million Mexicans.
This is a serious issue that simply is not being addressed, and I have no problem when our elected officals make statements like this:
Close the borders in California and all across Mexico and in the United States,” Schwarzenegger said Tuesday at the annual meeting of the Newspaper Association of America. “Because I think it is just unfair to have all those people coming across, have the borders open the way it is, and have this kind of lax situation.”
The Republican governor also suggested exploring several policy proposals aimed at addressing the immigration crisis, including President Bush’s proposed guest worker program and legislation sponsored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., to pave the way for undocumented workers already living in the United States to attain legal status.
“This is a very important debate. I think it’s necessary that we solve the problems rather than try to run the other way. It’s a hot issue,” Schwarzenegger said.
Schwarzenegger’s remarks were later clarified by his spokeswoman, Margita Thompson, who said the governor supports greater security along the nation’s borders but was not calling for the borders to be completely closed.
Of course he didn’t mean he wants to shut off all trade and close the border, literally. Everyone knows exactly what he meant- he means stop all the damned illegal border crossings. Only a true wingnut luunatic would interpret it any other way, and since both parties are chock full of them, the opportunists, the con men, and the politicians (Holy loads of redundancy, Batman!) pounced:
n a statement, Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez, D-Los Angeles, said Schwarzenegger’s comments reflected badly on the state’s “productive” relationship with Mexico.
“The Governor should ratchet down his rhetoric and retreat from this narrow-minded approach to immigration policy,” Nunez said. “Closing our borders to commerce and culture is an idea that comes from political extremists, not rational policy-makers.”
Idiotic grandstanding race-baiter. What else can you say? Unfortunately, with our lazy and stupid media, always quick to pounce on something to help make us as lazy and stupid as they are, promoted Nunez’s comments, and Arnold was forced to make a retraction, even when we all knew damned well what he meant:
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger moved quickly today to apologize for suggesting that California’s border with Mexico should be closed in an effort to solve the nation’s illegal immigration problem.
Schwarzenegger said he misspoke in comments to newspaper editors and publishers Tuesday, intending to say the border should be secured. The governor blamed the error on his sometimes flawed use of English — his second language.
“Yesterday was a total screw-up in the words I used,” the governor said at a press conference. “Because instead of closing, I meant securing. I think maybe my English, I need to go back to school and study a little bit.”
This little bit of self-promotion by Nunez and his willing accomplices in the media (and, of course, the blogosphere- check out this picture)is a sterling example of everything that is wrong with politics today.
There are honest to goodness racists out there who may hate immigrants, people of color, etc. Arnold isn’t one of them, and trying to paint him as one is pretty damned reprehensible. But when you can’t have a seriuos debate about something as urgent and pressing as border control without the demagoguery hitting a fever pitch, you aren’t combatting racism- you are merely making the arena of ideas untenable.
To Mr. Nunez and his race-baiting ilk, all I have to say is, “Beunes Noches, credibility.” I will never take you seriously.
sidereal
Slightly tangential (since it’s easy enough to agree that Nunez is a jackass and move on), but when you say ‘I honestly can say that I do not know one person who is against people immigrating lawfully to the United States’ I think it confuses the issue somewhat. Just saying ‘it’s illegal and therefore it’s bad’ is meaningless as long as we have the power to change laws, and we do. And so the question is, what should legal immigration look like? And as the husband of an Australian immigrant, I can tell you that it mustn’t look like this. The immigration process is so ridiculously onerous, convoluted, and expensive that it is totally inappropriate to the task, and massive rates of illegal immigration are a direct consequence of that. To riff on the ‘legalize it, tax it’ drug war refrain, ‘legalize it, monitor it’.
JG
I always thought the best way to stop illegal immigration is to try to jelp make mexico a place they don’t want, or need, to leave. Anything we can do to make sure it doesn’t become mexi-stan. I have nothing against Islam but when you have Islam you have the opportunity for radical Islam and I don’t want radical Islam living right next door. Mexico already has poverty. Mix poverty and radical Islam and we’re all dead.
BTW I know many serious racists. Growing up in an Irish catholic town there was lots of hatred towards any non catholic and especially non white(even if they were catholic). Sad to imagine but that type of person is alive and well……and voting for Bush.
Birkel
One potential answer:
Increase by some multiple the number of legal immigrant applications from Mexico. Increase staff for background checks to keep criminals out. Tell every illegal immigrant currently here that they get first dibs but have to return to Mexico or pay some fee to receive their papers. But don’t make it an onerous process for those currently here illegally. Just make it so the good, honest, hardworking illegals don’t get rounded up with the criminal-types.
All non-criminal potential immigrants may not be able to enter in the year they desire. But make it obvious that if they’ll just wait a bit they’ll be able to legally immigrate in due course.
Then build a serious wall and let people know illegals (and especially those who come here and commit crimes) will be imprisoned in a federal pen (in addition to any time spent in a state pen) before being deported. Force them to pay for their own jailing and then build enough federal prisons to house however many need to be imprisoned. Heck, even charge them for their own bus ride back to Mexico.
Don’t forget to increase the penalties on businesses for hiring illegals. But then you’ll have to drop the minimum wage to keep the economic benefits which you referenced in the initial post.
And then tighten the screw on the Mexican government which seems to be complicit in the whole trafficking of immigrants (and drugs, of course).
Of course, then we’ll have to give all the newly-legal immigrants SS and Medicare.
Hmmm…
Not much of a solution as I look at it. And frankly I don’t think there really is one. Not politically. Not economically. Not according to the laws of the country. Completely intractable.
mds
I honestly can say that I do not know one person who is against people immigrating lawfully to the United States.
Well, Patrick Buchanan wants to restrict legal immigration, but I’m not sure he really counts.
I always thought the best way to stop illegal immigration is to try to jelp make mexico a place they don’t want, or need, to leave.
This is a promising suggestion for nation building. Instead of spending billions on setting up _AFTAs, then losing jillions to “free trade,” we could devote a fraction of those monies into building up something other than client state economies.
And obviously, Governor Schwarzenegger is not a racist. Like his friends the Bushes, he is probably personally in favor of low-cost labor coming across the border. But he needs to think about re-election, and might have decided that he needs to modify his commendable social libertarianism with a litte red meat for the California Republican Party. And it’s easy to talk tough on illegal immigration.
Kimmitt
NAFTA is pretty decent for Mexico, but Mexico’s problems run pretty deep. I don’t think we really can make them rich, though of course we can probably do some things to keep from making them poorer.
Al Maviva
Former DHS Undersecretary for Border and Transportation Security Asa Hutchinson hit the nail on the head a little while back, and got in heap big trouble for it. He said that we simply lack the political willpower to really put the resources forth to secure the Southern border, because too many people profit from illegal immigration.
What he was getting at, is a lot of businesses like cheap, benefits- and tax-free labor. Meanwhile, a lot of leftists like to flood immigrants in to destabilize the prevailing culture, and to collect easy Dem votes. It’s an unholy marriage of people who are very happy to place their hedonistic or political interests well in front of the nation’s interests.
Oddly enough, I think this is a case where democracy is working pretty well. When we have our first 100,000 casualty attack, or maybe million casualty attack, perhaps enough people will get serious enough about the problem, to vote in favor of securing the border. Until then, a broad swath of people don’t rate the threat very highly, and the political market is working, and businesses and lefty politicals are essentially directing the government to confer a benefit on them, at the risk of the security of those 100,000 or more future victims.
It’s Democracy in Action! We should Cheer!
Meanwhile, we should be thankful that although Mexico is a kleptocratic police state, it’s a mind bendingly corrupt and inefficient one. This prevents it from being much of a threat as a country. The security threat posed by its open borders, and the law flouting-illegal immigrants among its citizens, is another thing…
The Lonewacko Blog
The amount of unadulterated BS in some of the comments above is quite stunning.
For just one example: I have about 30 posts about or mentioning Asa Hutchinson, and if you want to know what he was all about you can start in “Hutchinson’s Remarks Indicate Cheap Labor Bias of Administration”, then go to Reports on the Temecula townhall meeting and the other entries.
As far as Fabian Nunez is concerned, dismissing him as just a Mexican-American Al Sharpton is, IMHO, quite inaccurate. For all his faults, Sharpton is at least an American.
OTOH, many members of the California legislature seem to have clearly divided loyalties. They might not be Mexican agents, but they occasionally act like it in some ways and to a certain extent.
See my immigration categories or search around at americanpatrol.com or mayorno.com for many, many examples.
Then, ask the LAT, the AP, and the NYT why they aren’t covering this.
KC
Totally agree, John. Totally agree.
wild bird
Just typical that while they allow illegal aleins into this country and then bill clinton sent out his storm troopers to kidnap ELIAN GONGALLAS and send his back to cuba to appease his old buddy FIDEL CASTRO
Compuglobalhypermeganet
Every pol in America has be sooooo envious of Ahnold, King of Cahleefooawnya, right about now.
Just think — whenever Governator says anything outrageous, he can immediately retract with a very believable “I’m not always so gut mit die English.” And how are we monoglottal Americans going to take issue with that?
What Howard Dean wouldn’t give… “No, I didn’t mean that I ‘hate’ Republicans. I used the wrong word — my ancestors were from Belgium! I meant ‘respectfully disagree.’ In Flemish, it’s almost the same word!”
Al Maviva
Well, as long as you are going to talk about unadulterated BS, Wacko, maybe you could tell me where the groundswell is, to secure the border. I’m under the impression that congress critters vote more or less the way their constituents want them to, otherwise the constituents will send them to lucrative lobbying jobs and replace them with somebody more amenable.
Exactly what was it about my comment you disagreed with? That the left would rather throw itself under a bus than acknowledge the value of international borders? Or that a lot of people in the business world (including small businessmen, who trend heavily republican) like cheap labor? Hence my conclusion, not enough votes to secure the border.
Perhaps you can point me toward the vast reservoir of people who have made it a political priority to secure the border. Until you can, I’m just going to have to believe my lyin’ eyes, and assume that the makeup of the current congress (with its half-assed efforts) pretty accurately reflects the nation’s intent.
And by the way, Hutchinson was speaking the truth. You can talk all you like about the Administration’s bias, but until more than 11,000 Border Patrol officers are authorized by Congress, ain’t nothin’ happening to close the gaps.
Kimmitt
Meanwhile, a lot of leftists like to flood immigrants in to destabilize the prevailing culture, and to collect easy Dem votes.
Could you provide information on the number of illegal immigrants who manage to fraudulently vote and their voting patterns? Also, don’t immigrants from Mexico tend to be relatively conservative Catholics?
The Lonewacko Blog
Well, as long as you are going to talk about unadulterated BS, Wacko, maybe you could tell me where the groundswell is, to secure the border. I’m under the impression that congress critters vote more or less the way their constituents want them to, otherwise the constituents will send them to lucrative lobbying jobs and replace them with somebody more amenable.
I stopped reading your first comment after the bit about Hutchinson. IMHO, he was just a stooge sent out there to present the administration’s viewpoint. His argument (“we can’t deport all illegals”) is a strawman, pure and simple. Very few people are suggesting putting IAs on cattlecars. However, people are suggesting turning off the electromagnet: fining employers and cutting non-essential public benefits to IAs, thereby making large numbers of them self-deport. Hutchinson was (IMHO) just trying to BS people, and he was probably doing what he was told. You really should listen to his performance at the Temecula townhall meeting before saying anything good about him; about the only good thing you can say is that perhaps he didn’t believe what he said he was just being a good soldier.
Congresscritters balance interests, and what their constituents want is only one of those interests. If someone’s weak in one area (immigration), they can frequently make up the votes they need by being strong in another area. Or, they can get the votes they need by saying “but, the other guy would be worse.”
If we could vote just on their stance on immigration, 80% of all elected representatives would need to find new work.
Al Maviva
I know Asa through my legal practice. He’s nobody’s stooge. Matter of fact, he got in a shitload of trouble for saying what he did. Why do you think he got passed over for DHS Secretary and all the juicy new “plum book” positions created by the Intel Reform bill, and wound up leaving the Administration? Last year, USBP deported more people than they have ever deported before, they blew their overtime budget out, and agents are leaving in droves due to burnout. Go ask their union, they’ll be happy to explain it. What he said is true – when Congress doubles or triples the size of the Border Patrol, we’ll know they are getting serious. All the talk about putting the Army on the border, and criminalizing this, that or the other thing, is so much bullshit until they have committed the money and personnel authorization necessary to carry out the mission. Until they do, I will assume they don’t have the votes, and I will assume the votes are absent because of a bipartisan lack of political giving a shit.
And as for you, Kimmit, I guess I don’t have an exact count on how many illegals voted in the last election. That doesn’t disprove it, any more than not having an exact number of illegal immigrants disproves the occurrence of illegal immigration. Want me to start pulling citations for you? I can, but I would rather not waste the time because, from what I’ve seen, your head is impervious to facts.
As for Hispanic voting patterns generally, Hispanics break 35-65 Republican/Dem. Sure they’re relatively conservative Catholics by lifestyle; that doesn’t mean they are informed voters and vote consistently with their religious beliefs. See, e.g. northeastern Catholics. Many of those Hispanics voting Republican are Cuban (who break rouhgly the opposite of the average) or assimilated Mexican immigrants. And I know you’ll assume it’s just more conservative lies, but I haven’t yet done a head count on the illegals voting. Matter of fact, nobody has since any effort to attempt to ascertain the citizenship, ID or other eligibility criteria of minority voters is immediately branded as racist by the folks on your side of the aisle. Go check out the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights report on that. If you want to start kicking that can down this road, we can, but the folks on your side of the aisle usually come off a lot worse in any given discussion of vote fraud. I’m not saying Dems are somehow more evil, but I’d surmise that large urban political machines are more corrupt than their suburban and rural counterparts, and Dems happen to run most urban political machines…
Kimmitt
Want me to start pulling citations for you?
Yes, I want you to start pulling citations for me. That’s what I asked for in the first place.
…or assimilated Mexican immigrants.
This is kind of where I was going; the Mexican contingent of the Hispanic population tends to trend more conservative — and thus Republican — than the population as a whole. If that is so, then Dems have no particular motivation for encouraging illegal immigration (and attendant vote fraud).
any effort to attempt to ascertain the citizenship, ID or other eligibility criteria of minority voters is immediately branded as racist by the folks on your side of the aisle.
You know the history of such efforts as well as I do. Y’all are the ones who poisoned that well.
steve expat
Illegal immigrants are let into the country to do the dirty work that Americans won’t do for themselves. They are paid crap for it and they are the backbone of a large part of the country (particularly the Western states). Large corporations (agriculture, hotel chains, janitorial services, restaurants, etc.) all depend heavily on illegal immigrant labor and that is the reason that they want the borders to remain porous. If you don’t like the situation, go after the corporations that hire them instead of the government that is controlled by these same corporations.