Rick Moran has constructed a great timeline that is continuing to evolve as more facts become available.
Also, see this response to Krugman’s absurd column.
Double Duty
by John Cole| 55 Comments
This post is in: Domestic Politics, Politics
Double Duty
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SEARP
John: I do not entirely understand the point of your item here. My lyin’ eyes show me that the response was completely inadequate. The idea of putting the responsbility for a response to a catastrophe of this magnitude on the government of a smallish state and city is absurd. They simply do not have the resources.
It is the Federal response that ultimately matters, and that was clearly inadequate, from the president down. Isn’t this something that needs to be said clearly?
Sure, have a hanging party, and bring Nagin, Blanco and, well, anyone else you think might have some responsibility here. I have a hunch CNN would be mentioning Nagin and Blanco only in passing…
John Cole
Umm. The timeline is simply a clipping of events. If you find something missing, add it, like he said.
As for Rick’s response to Krugman, read it. It speaks for itself. I am not sure what other ‘point’ you are looking for.
Mel Tannehill
SEARP: The #1 priority for Bush apologists everywhere is establishing some sort of covering story that absolves George W. Bush of any responsibility for the thousands of dead (see article: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/09/04/thousands-dead0904.html ) expected to be uncovered over the next couple of days in New Orleans. What most people might regard as reality is not what is at stake here. The only issue for them is covering Bush’s ass. Anything anyone has to say about what is obvious to 70% of the American public (see the latest as rasmussenreports.com) is besides the point. This is pure politics now for the Bushies, and all the evidence to the contrary is meaningless to those whose only priority is to protect the reactionary Bush agenda.
And if you think Rick “Nuthouse” Moran’s absurd legalisms hold water about as well as Bush’s explanation about not knowing the levees would break, try telling him so on his heavily censored site. Your post will disappear as quickly as a hooker’s panties at an all night Texas fraternity kegger.
SEARP
I did read it, and it occasioned my previous post. The essential argument made by “the rightwing nuthouse” is that it was the fault of the local officials that the response was so inadequate. I just see that as silly.
Jay Salter
Dear John,
As a lapsed conservative, I’ve been following for a good while your steadfast efforts to resurrect the Dubya Administration from its slough of ineptitude. I applaud your Sisyphean labors. In this regard, I expect you will very soon turn your attention to yesterday’s column titled Bursting Point, by the New York Times’ chief conservative pundit, David Brooks.
Expectantly,
Jay Salter
John Cole
What, exactly, is a lapsed conservative?
CaseyL
Someone who, when push comes to shove, defends Bush.
Someone who gets angry at Bush, talks about not voting Republican again, but when faced with the enormity of what Bush has wrought, can’t quite screw his outrage to the sticking point (to paraphrase Lady MacBeth).
Boronx
I just see that as silly.
It’s not silly, it’s deadly serious. It’s the same sort of effort the Bush and Rove used to shift blame on 9/11 and Iraq. Because of folks like John Cole, they’ve been very successful at it.
SEARP
Mel: I agree, but I was trying to stay with the substance, in an effort to try to focus on facts that do not really require much interpretation.
The point here, a point that matters, is that the FEDERAL response was a pot-pourri of negligent malfeasance led by a political appointee who had absolutely no qualifications for the job.
I leave it to others to decide if it was appropriate for the president to be giving a speech about WWII while New Orleans was dying.
Boronx
I’ve read (skimmed, rather) the timeline and it read like a totally inadequate response to the a disaster of this magnitude, which is exactly what it was.
Boronx
demimondian
Bullock’s comment pretty much does for the claims about the declaration of emergency not giving the Prez the authority to use the military, you know. Louisiana didn’t have to ask again; it already had done all that was needed.
John, do you see why people are frustrated with you? There have been a series of anonymous leaks out of the WHite House claiming “X should have done Y, so there was no way for us to respond.” Not a one of these has turned out to be true. I don’t care whose fault this is, guy — but I care very much about trying to place the blame on the innocent. (A nice distinction, but one a bureaucrat needs to understand.) I’m frustrated with you because I see a pattern of deception of the American people, and I want you to recognize and acknowledge that.
I don’t want to stick the blame incorrectly, and the current operation in the White House appears to not care about that at all. That, my friend, pisses me off immesuarably.
Darrell
Is it? Because seems to me the most important responsibilities BY FAR, which could have made the largest impact in terms of saving lives were:
A) evacuation of those most vulnerable before the hurricane hit
B) First response, including having ready stockpiles of supplies, and placement and deployment of first responders..
There’s simply no debate that those are the responsibility of local and state officials. FEMA screwups don’t even begin to approach the magnitude and loss of lives resulting from the unforgiveable lack of action by state and local officials. I want answers to why Amtrak and aid trucks were turned away by FEMA if in fact they really were.. And all agencies had to deal with destroyed infrastructure… but at the end of thd day, the biggest question is: why in the hell weren’t more people evacuated from New Orleans before the storm hit? And responsibility for that critical task falls squarely on the shoulders of state and local government
jobiuspublius
Two words: Mary Carey.
jobiuspublius
Funding? Following your argument, why the hell weren’t more people evacuated from L.A., M.S., A.L., and F.L.?
Darrell
Note that the left, so eager to pin all, or most blame on Bush, was screaming at the top of their lungs that the USS Bataan sitting offshore with empty hospital facilities “proves” how inept FEMA (and of course Bush) was in handling the situation. As with so many of the left’s accusations, there was not a shred of f*cking truth to it, as, thanks to Rick Moran’s explanation, a medical facility staging area had already been set up at the NO airport 10 minutes away, vs. a harrowing 30 minute helicopter ride to the ship. But those on the left making those accusations screaming so loudly will never admit how wrong they truly were/are.. they’ll just jump without facts on some new accusation du jour screaming how that “proves it’s all Bush’s fault!!”. The left are not looking for any truth, they are looking only to politicize and blame.
jobiuspublius
I hope he didn’t mean prolapsed.
jobiuspublius
Darrell, I asked you a question that follows your line of reasoning. Please, be so kind as to answer it. Following your argument, why the hell weren’t more people evacuated from L.A., M.S., A.L., and F.L.?
Also tell us about the funding?
Here’s something to chew on:
Joe Molina
Estimates are that by the end of next week the nation will have witnessed 10,000 dead bodies being dragged out of the waters covering New Orleans.
How weak and insignificant will the Bush apologia seem next to that.
B. Ross
Lt. Cmdr. Sean Kelly said that NorCommade preparations to assist NO before the hurricane. He had thousands of troops and nine million MRE’s at the ready, and a ship following the hurricane into harbor.
Asked why help had come so late, on Friday, Kelly said: we were ready, but we aren’t able to act on our own. We have to be authorized by the President.
Aha. That explains the delay–Cheney was out of town!
John Cole
Yes. Bush should rush out and claim responsibility for all of those dead. Same with the ones in Mississippi and Alabama.
Really, could you apply a bit more of a deft touch than simply heaving cadavers at your political oppostion? Jeebus. Crass fuckers.
B. Ross
this via Rising Hegemon, though the story appeared earlier on No Blood for Hubris and DU.
“There’s an interesting BBC World News report (brought to my attention by my friend Darrell) in which NorthCom Lt. Commander Sean Kelly explained the military’s efforts which, in addition to military support, include distribution of medical supplies, search and rescue operations, distributing food and water, and meeting transportation needs.
When the BBC noted the criticism of the government’s slow response, Lt. Commander Kelly explained that NorthCom was ready to go well in advance of Katrina making landfall, but suggested the president didn’t make the right call at the right time.
‘Northcom started planning before the storm even hit. We were ready when it hit Florida, because, as you remember, it hit the bottom part of Florida, and then we were planning once it was pointed towards the Gulf Coast.
“So, what we did, we activated what we call ‘defense coordinating officers’ to work with the states to say, ‘OK, what do you think you will need?’ And we set up staging bases that could be started.
“We had the USS Bataan sailing almost behind the hurricane so once the hurricane made landfall, its search and rescue helicopters could be available almost immediately So, we had things ready.
“The only caveat is: we have to wait until the president authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can’t just act in this fashion; we have to wait for the president to give us permission.”‘”
Darrell
In the case of LA, it was a result of inaction/unwillingness/incompetency of state and local govt. Outside of NOLA area, there is no other area even close to being as vulnerable as NOLA, hence a far less urgent matter to evacuate… Correct me if I’m wrong, but of those areas you ask about, NOLA is the one and only area among them UNDER SEA LEVEL surrounded by levees that could flood it.. levees which the NOLA mayor himself predicted would fail, which makes his failure to act so unbelievable
Joe Molina
Dear John Cole: Could you possibly have more to defend the incompetent silk-pantsed patrician you so obviously adore and worship than: “It was somebody else’s fault! It was omebody else’s fault! Everything is OK now!”
Obviously Bush’s political well-being is the only thing you give a shit about.
Darrell
Take a close look people. Note the seething hatred and complete lack of coherence so prevalent on the left. It’s who they are..
JonBuck
I am sick and tired of partisan bickering.
Joe Molina
Poor Darrell. Let me break it down for you. I promise I’ll type real slow so you can keep up. What we are now witnessing is an attempt by a badly mauled Bush administration to affix blame for the wretched handling of the New Orleans tragedy on others. The incompetence we witnessed before 9-11, the incompetence we witnessed in the run-up the War for Phantom WMD in Iraq, has once again revealed itself to the world in Bush’s inept and deadly response to this terrible domestic disaster. Bush’s political well-being is really all you people care about, and unfortunately for you that involves being an apologist for egregious neglect and dereliction of duty.
And as far as your whine about “hatred,” consider this: The ultimate act of patriotism is condemning those public officials who cause America harm. Bush is now a 3 time loser, and condemning his incompetence is now a patriotic duty.
jobiuspublius
ROFLMAO that is a complete dodge. Try again, Darrell.
jobiuspublius
Forgot to spell it out. There are areas of M.S., and A.L. that will not see help for weeks. Why didn’t someone evacuate them?
ppGaz
Ahem! Let me say this about that …
Ooops! Darrell thread!
Sorry, never mind. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Darrell
I don’t see your “point”. Evacuation is entirely the responsibility of state and local officials. End of story. FEMA steps in later to help and coordinate. And can you provide links/evidences to all those areas in MS and AL (not M.S. and A.L.) which “will not see help for weeks”?
Far North
Unbelievable. Is there no sense of accountability in the mind of the Bush conservative? Un-f***ing-believable.
jobiuspublius
It’s what I heard on TV during rescue coverage. The point is that Nagin and Blanco are taking heat, but, MS, AL(if you prefer), and other parts of LA, and some spot in FL are trashed too, but, no one else is getting criticism. There are 4 govenors and many mayors, etc., involved here, but, Nagin and Blanco get all the heat.
Jon H
Darrell writes: “a medical facility staging area had already been set up at the NO airport 10 minutes away, vs. a harrowing 30 minute helicopter ride to the ship.”
What on earth makes you think that was sufficient capacity?
And what about the ship’s capacity for making fresh water, which is clearly needed. What about the other capabilities it had which were not taken advantage of?
Darrell
What on earth makes you think that there wasn’t sufficient capacity closer than a 30 minute minute helicopter ride? Not to mention the diverting of helicopters needed for S&R operations.
Jon H
“What on earth makes you think that there wasn’t sufficient capacity closer than a 30 minute minute helicopter ride? ”
There very clearly was not, given that a hundred people died *after* being “rescued” by helicopters, having been dropped off at a boat slip to wait for further assistance which never came.
“Not to mention the diverting of helicopters needed for S&R operations.”
Who said they had to go aboard via helicopter?
Darrell
So you have no links or evidence to support your claims that there are areas in AL and MS who “won’t see help for weeks”? that’s what I thought. And has there been any area in MS or AL which experienced even a tiny fraction of the continued flooding and deaths in New Orleans? No?
Jon H
” Not to mention the diverting of helicopters needed for S&R operations”
Furthermore, Bush has had no qualms about diverting helicopters for freaking photo ops, or to protect his precious life when he’s in town.
Darrell
Given the ship was offshore, what faster way than helicopters? Please share your ‘insights’ on the preferred method on transporting them back to the ship
Darrell
When were those people dropped off at a boat slip? links/evidence?
Jon H
“Given the ship was offshore, what faster way than helicopters? Please share your ‘insights’ on the preferred method on transporting them back to the ship”
A boat would suffice, under the circumstances.
Further, the ship certainly isn’t necessarily limited to staying 30 minutes away.
On the other hand, too many helicopters at the airport is likely to cause congestion, so it would likely be useful to have some travelling to the ship.
And, anyway, where do you think the seriously ill are going to go after being triaged at the airport? They’re going to be airlifted to a remote hospital, by helicopter.
Darrell
Accountabily for state and local agencies as well as the Federal govt? Or only “accountability” which dishonestly attempts to blame everything on Bush? Which one, you dishonest sack of shit?
Jon H
Darrell: It’s at the Times-Picayune blog.
“About 100 people have died at the Chalmette Slip after
being pulled off their rooftops, waiting to be ferried
up the river to the West Bank and bused out of the
flood ravaged area, U.S. Rep. Charles Melancon,
D-Napoleonville, said Thursday.”
I’d link, but the blog isn’t letting me…
Darrell
I see.. tell us more about the “circumstances” whereas someone needing urgent medical attn, to the point of being hospitalized, that those persons should have to wait longer so that you can point the finger at Bush
The port facities were destroyed dumbass.
Darrell
But those people were NOT IN NEED OF URGENT MEDICAL TREATMENT as you had claimed you lying scumbag. They were people who were pulled off their rooftops, waiting to be ferried up the river to the West Bank and bused out of the flood ravaged area.
jobiuspublius
Darrell, your a hoot. Keep bobin and weavin.
SEARP
Darrell:
You are simply wrong in your assessment of the ability of state and local authorities to respond to something of this magnitude. That is why the Feds ALWAYS step in. They are the ones with the resources. Go show me a hurricane with billions in damages in the last 40 years where the Feds haven’t stepped in.
Take the blinders off. The Feds goofed, big time.
ppGaz
According to my count, more than 25% of the posts to this thread are by Darrell. That’s 12 of 45.
He makes the same fucking comment over and over again, namely, that all “leftist” comment is just vile “Bush-hating” and therefore to be disregarded. He never listens to any dissenting view. The only correct view, according to him, is that George W Bush can do no wrong, ever. Which this week places him somewhat to the right of Michelle Malkin, as near as I can figure out.
In the 3 most recent posts, his detractors are “dishonest sack of shit,” “dumbass,” and “lying scumbag.” The last time I threw a tantrum like that, I got hammered by John himself.
WTF? What’s the deal?
Darrell
Wrong? According to FEMA’s website
They are instructed to be prepared to be self sufficient for a period of up to 96 hours. Evacuation prior to the hurricane is 100% the responsibility of state and local govt. and lack of evacuation is the #1 cause of death in this disaster
Yes, the feds step in, but AFTERWARDS
Show me where the Feds goofed, to a degree anywhere close to the catestrophic failure of state and local govt to evacuate those most vulnerable. Show me where and be specific
SEARP
Darrell:
The instances of “goofing”, if you will, are numerous, go read the newspapers, preferably, the Times-Picayune. Liberal rag, I’m sure, but they’re on the spot.
Anyway, how ’bout this: you are absolutely correct in everything you have ever posted, and I will die before I ever vote for a Republican for any office ever again.
See, that’s reality.
jobiuspublius
Darrell, the argument used to minimize the defunding of the levees is that the projects would have taken years to complete, so, it would not have mattered this year. Use the same logic again. There was not enough time for Blanco or Nagin to prepare for a Katrina. Then you’ll say something like:
To which I say, Mr. Clusterfuck took the FEMA director off his cabinet, fired a great FEMA director and replaced him with your friend Brownie, gutted FEMA and grafted onto the ass of the Defartment of Homeland Scatology run by Dr. Jerktoff. Then he expects everybody else to just suddenly figure out how to do what FEMA used to do and make sense out of his new big fat government mess. When, he would have gotten alot farther if he had let the old FEMA director deal with it all rather than creating another huge government clusterfuck’n pork barrell. Shit rolls down hill. Guess who got the shit rolling.
Now tell me that Brownie is not your friend.
Darrell
pubicus, I’ve got some questions on his handling of Katrina. But last year was as active a hurricane season as I can recall in recent history, and by all accounts, his performance then was exemplary. Given that, I’m going to wait to for more information on his performance to unfold, rather than scream hysterically without facts
jobiuspublius
I’m glad you learned to wait for facts. I forgive you.
Jay Salter
John, et. alia.,
A lapsed conservative is a guy who went to Vietnam a Goldwater Republican and returned a McGovern Democrat — a conservative who has voted the straight Democratic ticket ever since because if Barry Goldwater was still alive he’d have switched parties too and not gone back. There are no genuine conservatives left in the Republican Party.
Your attempted diversion didn’t work. You can’t avoid the question any longer. What about Mr. David Brooks and his Sunday sermon? How do you answer him?
Sincerely,
Jay Salter
ppGaz
If this has been seen here already, then shoot me, I haven’t kept up with all the threads today, especially if they have been Darrell-contaminated (euphemism for Darrell-fucked).
But this is priceless; No matter what your politics is, or what you think about the last week, it is going to become clear that FEMA is the most colossally dysfunctional outfit in history.
You couldn’t invent this stuff:
FEMA tells Responders: Don’t Respond
The next month or so is going to be a steady drumbeat of stories of body recovery, and tales of horror from the Big Easy. Tales of horror while America watched this:
As for the “don’t blame Bush” mantra? It’s a giant strawman argument. Nobody is “blaming Bush” for the hurricane, or even for the screwups.
What they are hating him for is the feckless response, the glib attitude, the seeming lack of interest and awareness (“we didn’t expect the levees to fail”), the amazingly stupid public face (“Brownie, you are doing a terrific job.”) The man didn’t cause the problem, directly. But he has managed to make himself look like he couldn’t solve any problem or take care of any real crisis without first making a complete fool of himself.
THAT’S why people are beating on him, and phony cries to contrary are bullshit.