I have some stuff to attend to, and won’t be back until later.
Consider this the open flame war thread.
Reader Interactions
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
And we’re all out of bubblegum.
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.
Good lord, these people are nuts.
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
Nothing worth doing is easy.
Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.
Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.
We still have time to mess this up!
“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”
The words do not have to be perfect.
It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.
Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.
It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.
A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires
Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll
Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.
Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.
Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.
fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)
If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!
In my day, never was longer.
The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.
Let there be snark.
Veeshir
We already have a bunch of flame wars going on, how about we mix it up a little and have a non-flame war thread?
I’ll start.
That pitch definitely hit the ground.
slide
well, so much for the “good news” of the Iraq Constitution compromise:
.
Shygetz
Yeah, and the catcher was an idiot for not just tagging the guy in case. C’mon, that’s SOP in high school; these guys should know better.
Steven D
You guys need new TVs. That was clean catch. It was Bush’s fault the ump blew the call.
jg
I’m getting 3 of my wisdom teeth extracted his afternoon. If any of my posts in the next couple of days seem a little incoherent (I’ll say it for you, more incoherent than usual) just keep in mind that I’m on percs. Or vicodan or whatever they give out.
jg
I have a HDTV, I saw it clearly. It was a catch. But until the umpire says the batters out, the catcher doesn’t leave the field, they either tag you or throw to first. Its like football palyers not chasing the guy with the ball because they think he’s down and the plays dead. Did you hear a whistle? Then keep running until you do.
Marcus Wellby
Good luck, are they knocking you out first? Makes things a whole helluva lot easier.
The pain after isn’t as bad. My wisdom teeth were impacted, so the pain after was a break compared to the pain before.
If they give you vicodan, you REALLY need to take that on a full stomach or expect some hard core nausea.
ppGaz
Not only did the pitch not hit the ground, that’s not the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is whether the home plate umpire could have called it hitting the ground. He didn’t see it. He should not have called it. There is really only one person on the planet who has first hand information on the pitch, and that is the catcher who caught it.
Unless the umpire knows for a fact that the ball hit the dirt first, he can’t make that call. That’s the judgement you’d expect in a high school game … it’s not asking too much to expect in a major league playoff game. That umpire should be fired, and the inning played over.
Worst call I have ever seen in 50 years of watching baseball. Not only in terms of the judgment (the call) itself, but in terms of the damage it did.
SeesThroughIt
I hate everybody on this site and everything they stand for. You all make me sick.
So, how’s everybody doing today?
Steve
What are you people smoking? The umpire CALLED HIM OUT. He made the out motion and then changed his mind after the guy ran to first. That’s extremely weak.
Joey
Without giving away too much, both are good stuff. Percs usually knock me out after a couple of hours though. Vicodin pretty much just gets me drunk without having to go through all the trouble of actually drinking. (And I have/had legit medical purposes for using them. That doesn’t mean I couldn’t enjoy them.)
John Cole
I saw it in HD on a big screen and the ball never touched the ground, IMHO.
Marcos
Your mother wears combat boots and your father smells of elderberries!
airmail
Horses are a festering pus-filling boil on the asshole of this planet. And these guys agree.
jg
Yes I’ll be knocked out. He said the first thing I’ll get is the laughing gas then the narc through the IV. An hours worth of amnesia and 4 days of looking like a chipmunk. Its going to be a shitty weekend.
I might buy out a whole Safeway full of Carnation drinks so if you want to buy stock, there’s a good one.
jg
The umps said they saw a change in direction. I think it was the glove’s webbing that was on the ground under the ball. The ball bounced but it was in the glove.
Anytime a batter swings through a third low strike the catcher always tags him. Benji Molina would have tagged him.
space
It is irrelevant whether the ball hit the ground or not. You can’t blame an ump for missing one that close. The catcher blew it. He should have made the tag.
Also, if anything was clear it was that catcher Josh Paul started heading for the dugout BEFORE the ump made the fist pump. Paul wasn’t fooled by the ump. He just blew it.
ppGaz
Wrong. There are exactly two relevant things here: One, did the ball hit the ground. Two, could the umpire see it.
The answers are: probably not, and definitely not, in that order.
Of the two, the one that determines whether the call was good or not is the second one. The umpire cannot call something he can’t see, period. He had no business making the call, and the game was ruined by that stupid decision, and his even stupider refusal to reconsider it.
Krista
Marcos –
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Defense Guy
In case you haven’t heard, more terrorism in Russia is going down now.
Source
Lines
Are they on terror alert level Apparachik?
Steve
Why haven’t we been involved more in helping the Russians combat this terrorism? Even if the rebels weren’t working hand-in-hand with al-Qaeda, which they are, we shouldn’t be turning a blind eye to terrorism anywhere in the world.
John S.
1. They do not want our help – with anything. Remember the submarine incident a few years ago? They’d sooner die than take a handout from the United States (particularly as Putin consolidates power and returns to authoritarianism).
2. Their methods of dealing with terrorism are a bit more “extreme” than our own. If the United States were involved and publicly expected more humanitarian efforts, who would we send our suspected terrorists to for torture?
Marcus Wellby
It shouldn’t be that bad. I think it depends on how they take them out, mine were impacted and in such a sorry state they couldn’t pull them, they had to “cut” them out. Though bloody, it was less traumatic.
Best of luck!
CJ
I heard an interview with a BBC reporter in Pakistan and a bit of a press conference with Pakistan’s president in which the failed/delayed/otherwise screwed up response to Katrina in NO was used as an excuse for Pakistan’s slow response to the earthquake there. The reporter’s comment was that the NO-Katrina snafu will be used by every government around the world from this point forward to justify a lousy response to natural disasters.
If it wasn’t so macabre, I’d laugh (more than I did when I heard it that is).
CJ
David Rossie
“They’d sooner die than take a handout from the United States (particularly as Putin consolidates power and returns to authoritarianism).”
Sooner die, or let their underlings die?
Mr Furious
Jesus guys. My dentist has been after me for years to get ’em out. you’re making me want to keep ’em back there…
Mr Furious
As far the ALCS game, much like Bush screwing up Katrina Recovery is on us liberals, the loss of the game last night is on the hot dog vendors…
Seriously, this one is on the catcher. Batters can strike out AND reach base. It happens all the time. Well occasionally. A guy swings at a pitch in the dirt that scoots to the backstop, inning continues…usually the catcher can tag the batter or throw to first before the guy can get ninety feet away. Paul failed to do eiither.
To me the ump made a strike motion with his fist, not necessarily an “out” call. When a batter checks his swing and the appeal goes to third (or first) base, that ump makes exactly that gesture to signal swing or strike.
Just as an umpire signals a foul ball by outstretching his arms and does nothing to indicate fair, the implication is to keep playing until the play is over.
It is not the umpires job to yell, “He’s running to first!”, “Tag him!” or anything else. It’s the catcher’s job to make sure the out is recorded. He literally dropped the ball.
demimondian
Uh, folks, it doesn’t matter what happened. If the umpire didn’t call the batter out then (deep breath) HE IS NOT OUT. (Cue 2000 Florida joke here.)
Sheesh! You touch all the bases when you hit a home run. You show the umpire the ball when you catch it.
And when the batter goes down swinging, you freaking always tag him.
Steve
And if the umpire did call the batter out then he is out. Which is what happened.
Veeshir
Pretty funny. Especially since I didn’t see the game and haven’t seen a replay today.
It was really just a joke. See, because I said I was trying to start a non-flame war thread and I picked out a contentious issue and…
Ahhh, forget it.
It’s football anyway. Go Giants!
Eural
Ok I’ve got it figured out – the number sequence on the hatch definitely matches to each of the underground compounds which is also matched to each of the tetragrams of the various Dharma group symbols so Locke and Hurley are both connected to the Others and Sawyer is so hot and…ooops what, sorry, wrong board.
John S.
There are no underlings, comrade. All those that serve mother Russia do so with equal participation, and equal expectation of death. Except for those that are more equal than others, of course.
jg
I’m back. The teeth are out. I have a mouth fulll of gauze and a bottle with 12 percs in it just waiting for the pain to start. Right now the numbness is still in affect. The bottom one he removed was impacted, erupted and horizontal. He drilled the crown off, then drilled between the roots to split them and slipped them out. The tops were no problem at all. In the office by 1:30 out by 2:30. The last thing I remember was the funkiest feeling ever as the gas took affect. Good stuff.
Krista
jg – Evidently, when I had mine taken out, I was telling blond jokes the entire time, as the dentist was blond. I must like living dangerously, like the time I was all hopped up pre-op, and (loudly) asked a cute doctor what he was wearing under his scrubs. Fortunately, my dentist seemed to have a good sense of humour about it.
demimondian
Did you hear him sell the call “You’re out!”? If not, then — sorry, no, he didn’t call the batter out.
What do you mean, John S.? Are you talking about…pigs? Thoughtcrime!
Steve
The umpire held up a fist indicating the batter was out. Take a look at the video of the Molina at-bat where the third strike was in the dirt – the umpire waits for the batter to be tagged, and only then holds up the fist indicating he’s out. It’s ridiculous to say that the out signal means nothing until the umpire says the magic words.
On your planet, it wouldn’t have mattered if the catcher had tagged him, because the runner is still not out unless the umpire says “You’re out!” Yes, tagging him should be the end of the issue, but catching the third strike in the air should also be the end of the issue. If he tagged the runner, and the umpire somehow missed the tag and the runner got to first base, would you admit it was a bad call then? Because there’s no difference – either way the umpire blew it.
Back in the real world, what happened is that the umpire signaled the out as the batter started to trudge back to the dugout, but then when the batter turned and ran for first, the umpire figured the pitch must have been in the dirt and so he pretended he never made the out call.
Davebo
I guess this is a good time to point out that my dentist swears I’m 20,000 years more evolved than the average human.
Because I have no wisdom teeth!
demimondian
No, Steve. On my planet, I know the key rule of playing baseball — the umpire is always, unquestioningly *right*, particularly when he (or she, but there aren’t any women in the majors) is at the plate in the ALCS.
So you fscking tag the freaking runner, OK? It doesn’t matter what the umpire does or doesn’t do any of the corner of you eye — until the umpire makes an unmistakable call, you assume the runner isn’t out, and YOU FREAKING TAG THE DOG-MANNED RUNNER.
Demi “this happens all the time in other little league games, too” mondian
demimondian
Davebo:
I won’t touch that with a ten-foot pole.
Demi “Six-foot Czechs are easier to find, anyway” mondian
Ray
Sorry to interrupt but baseball sucks.
tzs
What about having only upper wisdom teeth and no lower? Does that make me 10,000 years more advanced?
Weird. How do the IDers ‘xplain all of this?
demimondian
Simple — you’re the spawn of satan.
Steven D
Demi~
You have the key rule of baseball wrong: an umpire is not always right, he’s just never wrong.
jaime
The bad call didn’t lose the game for the Angels, the stolen base by the pinch runner and the ball Crede crushed with TWO strikes lost the game for the Angels. It’s like the Cubs fans blaming Bartman for losing that playoff game.
ppGaz
The inning was over without the bad call.
The runner wasn’t on to steal the base, without the bad call.
demimondian
The Red Sox still blame Bill Buckner for 1986 versus the Mets…never mind that the tying run would have scored, bobble or no bobble.
The world is not a fair place.
jg
No we don’t. They had a 5-2 lead with 2 outs in the 10th. Buckners gaffe wa sthe last thing to happen so it go the most press. And you’re right, he had no chance of getting that out at first anyway. Still it would have been nice NOT to boot it. LOL.
Buckner received a standing ovation when he returned to the Sox a year or two later, and he’s got a 2004 WS ring waiting for him whenever he wants to come get it.
The pills are stahting to take effect. My spine tickles.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Hmm, I would have guess for sure that John would have posted on the staged “talk with the troops” and how Scotty boy tried to make it seem as if the press was question the soldiers motives…
Unfortunately for Scotty boy, and the White House, the AP taped them staging the event.
Also, I’m quite surprised John didn’t post on how it is the White House claiming the media is the one bringing up Miers religion…the press briefing today was truly gold.
ImJohnGalt
ppGaz said:
Except umps do it all the time, watching the runner’s foot while listening for the ball to hit the glove.
Secondly, Steve said:
Which the catcher saw, um…how? Umpires are meant to do two things when a batter is out. Make the fist in the air thingy which is for the players in the field, and secondly indicate vocally that the batter is out, for the benefit of the batter and the catcher who cannot see his whether his fist is open or closed. Whatever the ump did or didn’t do with his hand is irrelevent for the purposes of the catcher, because the catcher should never be using his team-mates walking off the field as his cue for why the runner is out.
If the ump didn’t say “He’s gone!”, or “Out!”, or “Take a seat, buddy!”, the catcher should’ve tagged him. I was listening to an interview with Shulman from ESPN today, who said he spoke with a catcher (Brad Ausmus, I think) who said that there is no uniform vocal cue in the league – different umps call an out different ways, but he thought the blame should be split between the ump and the catcher. The fact that there is no standard way to vocally call an out at the major league level is moronic.
Bob
I just saw the last half of the 1985 epic, “Invasion USA,” starring Chuck Norris. I think that the Bush Administration’s foreign policy and war on terror is based on that film.
That Chuck Norris can sure kick ass.
demimondian
“stahting”, eh? Yeah, my accent always comes back when I’m on vicodin…
ppGaz
That proves my point, not yours. In your example, the umpire can in fact see and hear the relevant events.
In last night’s case … how did he divine the event? X-ray vision?
He heard the difference between the ball kissing the dirt before the leather?
No, he just guessed.
srv
I remember the sound of slapping. Over and over. Then (owwww! WTF!) realized someone was slapping me. I grabbed the assistants wrist mid-slap. Lights out in the recovery room, I couldn’t see a thing. Good thing my dad was there, cause she was screaming for help at that point.
ImJohnGalt
ppGaz said:
The same way the catcher saw the closed fist of the umpire behind him without turning around?
Look, I think it was a crappy call. But you’re not seriously arguing that unless it’s a passed ball the ump can never call a trap or a caught bounced ball as a third strike/no out, are you? Maybe he did think he heard it hit the dirt. Perhaps he has seen that type of pitch a hundred times, and in his experience the trajectory of the ball takes it into the dirt 99.9% of the time. That’s how plays get called.
The timing of this call was unfortunate, absolutely, but it’s no worse than any one of a hundred bad calls made during a season: shots that hit behind an outfield wall that are not scored home runs; balls that squeak on the wrong side of the foul pole that called home runs. As bad a call as it was, it could have been mitigated if the catcher had just done what any catcher who has not heard “YER OUT!” would’ve done, which is tag the batter on a third strike at ground level.
jg
Get ’em out. I avoided my dentist for 6 years otherwise they’d have been gone long ago and with less chances of bad side effects.
I’m a bit disappointed actually. At first I felt a little something from the percs, or oxycodone as it says on the bottle, but now I’ve got the same high you’d get from 2 Advil. I can’t believe people would pay over $10 a pill for these on the street when I was a kid. Maybe I’m supposed to take two, there still is some pain but not a lot though. I miss the gas.
ImJohnGalt
There are three strengths of Percs, as I understand it. It’s a class 2 narcotic, as opposed to Vicodin, which is a class 3. I have very little experience with either, but my understanding was that as long as you actually *have* pain, you won’t experience quite the euphoria that you would if you were taking them recreationally. I may just be completely speaking outta my ass, here – I’ve never taken anything stronger than a 25-year old Glenmorangie.
aop
My guess, as someone who has done a lot of pharmaceuticals in the past, is that they have you on 5mg percocet. If that’s the case, I’d advise doubling up – you’ve got to take around 10 mils to get high, or in your case, keep the pain away.
ppGaz
I am seriously arguing what I am seriously arguing: That the umpire could not have seen the play.
He saw, at best, a glove on the ground. He never saw the ball on the ground, whether it was on the ground, or not. He had no way of knowing whether it was a catch, or a trap.
The behavior of the batter and the catcher might have given him a clue …. they both thought the inning was over. He called a strike. The fielders saw what appeared to be a strikeout and headed for the dugout. Every person on earth watching this thought the inning was over.
One man, who DID NOT SEE THE PLAY, decided otherwise.
After making this remarkable decision, he then refused to reconsider it because he is an arrogant asshole who thinks how he looks is more important than what happened.
aop
The irony of painkillers – if you’re in pain, you can’t enjoy them.
jg
The pills have ‘512’ on them, the bottle says OXYCODONE W/APAP 5/325 MG. What ever that means.
The instructions are take 1 or 2 every 4 hours as needed for pain. I think I’ll stick with one, I don’t need an addiction right now. Plus I’d lose my right to criticise Rush. :)
jg
True. But it appears that he never said the batter is out. Thats why the batter turned and ran to first. If a batter swings through a third strike that looks close to hitting the ground, the catcher tags him.
The ump made the wrong call but to be fair to him, it looked like the right call, from his view it looked like the ball was not caught cleanly. The catcher is still the one at fault IMO. He shouldn’t assume the ump knows he caught it cleanly.
I think we’re seeing the process that lead up to the introduction of the Tuck Rule in football. I don’t know what play got the ball rolling on that rule but I bet it was something like this.
ImJohnGalt
ppGaz said:
Sure, I’ll stipulate to that. But by your argument, unless the ball skips in the dirt 3 feet in front of home plate, or passes the catcher altogether, an umpire can never *know* if the ball skipped in the dirt or not, and so should never be able to make that call. Would you suggest that the base umpires should be consulted in such a case for an appeal?
Umpires aren’t robots. They make judgement calls all the time. Did a fielder trap or catch the ball when they slid into the ball? Was the player brushed by the pitch or not? I imagine that we’d all be surprised if we knew how often umpires made calls based on secondary visual (the batter pulled his hand away in what seemed like pain), auditory (I swear I heard the ball hit his skin), or just plain probabilistic information (it looked like it was going to hit him, so even though the catcher blocked my view, I’m calling a hit batsman because he said “Ow!”).
If the umpire said “Out!”, I’m totally with you. If he didn’t however, all catchers know to tag him. I’m not saying the ump didn’t blow the call, only that any catcher on the ball who didn’t hear him call the batter out would’ve either tagged him or thrown down to first.
I have no skin in this game. I’ll be happy with either team winning, but to pretend like this is the biggest travesty in the history of the sport is just silly. Umps blow calls all the time. Sometimes it’s a strike that is called a ball, sometimes its a tag that wasn’t in time that gets called an out. In this case, the catcher could’ve done something to mitigate the poor call, where usually a player can’t. It’s like blaming the ump when a fielder tosses the ball into the stands after two outs because the ump didn’t scream “TWO OUTS!” after a catch. The player didn’t pay attention, and paid for his mistake.
If he had called “Out!”, would the batter have started running down to first? I don’t think so.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Well, he did eventually put his first up, which I’m pretty sure signals an out…
I could very well be wrong about the fist meaning out, but that is what I always thought.
ImJohnGalt
TDV, I hear ya, but for the batter and the catcher, the only two people on the field who aren’t looking at the umpire, it’s what he says that, for me at least, carries the day, and if it isn’t “Take a seat, loser!”, the play has not yet ended. At least that’s what they teach you in umpire school.
demimondian
Hmm. Well, I do have some professional knowledge of this. (I’ve done a lot of things in my life…)
Your understanding is largely, but not entirely, correct. People who take narcotics for pain relief do not, generally, become addicted to the narcotics. They *do* develop a physical dependency, and, if they remain on them long enough, have to be tapered off the drugs, but they do not develop the “drug seeking behaviors” characterisic of an addict.
The problem with “addiction” is that it’s a combination of two things, a physical dependency and a psychological craving. The craving is reinforced every time the addict withdraws, thus making it progressively harder to withdraw.
aop
That means they have 5 mgs. of oxycodone, which is the active narcotic ingredient in percocet, and 325 mgs. of acetaminophen, the painkilling ingedient in Tylenol. IMO, if you take one and you’re still in pain, take another. That’s what they’re for, and you’re not going to get addicted after 12 pills.
ppGaz
No. By your version of the argument, such a thing might be true. Not by my version.
What I said is, the umpire did not see the play. Therefore he has no justification for making the call. The proper response to a play not seen is not to assume the most disruptive possible scenario. The idiot was busted when he checked with another umpire. If he had seen the play, he would not have needed to talk to another umpire. He didn’t see the play but was too pigheaded to just admit it.
ppGaz
PS — A guess is not the same thing as a “judgement call” in umpiring. A judgement call is made upon seeing the play and applying judgement. When one hasn’t seen the play, judgement doesn’t enter into it. It’s a guess.
It’s all well and good for the man to guess that the ball hit the dirt. What’s not well and good is for him to call that and change the direction of the game. He should have called the batter out, and gone back to the hotel and called his wife and said, ya know, that ball mighta hit the dirt. I dunno, I didn’t see it. But he didn’t do that. He decided to get his fucking name in the paper by turning his guess into a big, stupid and ugly call that changed the outcome of the game in less than 2 minutes.
ImJohnGalt
ppGaz, to my ears (eyes?), you seem to imply a level of deliberate malice on the part of the umpire that I see little evidence to support. Had the catcher just thrown to first, the game would have been over. Can’t there be two stupid contributing factors to this charade, his call being the first and the catcher’s not tagging a batter who had not been called out being the second? Do you really think he just wanted to “get his fucking name in the paper”? Especially over this? Doesn’t seem like the sort of thing for which a referee wants publicity. He could hardly have known that his call would have changed the whole course of the game.
That said, I guess I’m prepared to cut him a lot more slack than are you. We’ve all felt our team was jobbed at one time or another – mine was a missed high-sticking call on Gretzky in the Stanley cup semifinals against the Leafs in 1993.
jg
He thought the ball hit the ground. Whether it did or not is something for the annals. He thought it did and therefore did not call the batter out. The catcher should not have walked away. The ump was wrong about the call. No question. Doesn’t change anything. The catcher (as the project managers at my office would say) didn’t follow up. I’ve seen so many games where the catcher threw to first when they knew it was a catch just in case the ump saw it differently.
The other catcher on the team (Benji Molina) would have thrown to first or tagged the guy while he was in the box. I bet he would’ve done it without even looking at him, a little ‘just in case’ tag as he’s walking away.
name
“I have some stuff to attend to, and won’t be back until later.”
Woo-Hoo!!! Err, I mean… Woo-Hoo!!!
Another Jeff
Okay, this thread is slowing down and there aren’t any new posts from our esteemed hosts. I welcome feedback on the following games:
Notre Dame getting 12 against USC
Penn State getting 3 against Michigan
Ohio State/MIchigan State (not sure of the line)
Texas/Colorado (i think Texas is giving 18)
And in honor of our host: Louisville/West Virginia (again, not sure of the line. Our fucking system administrater here denies access to anything gamling related).
Or, if pro footballs your thing, you can talk about how fun it would be to take a cruise with Fred Smoot and the Minnesota Vikings.
Krista
Recovery rooms are scary as hell, aren’t they? Funny story — had just come out of major surgery, nauseous as hell, in excruciating pain, the whole works. Evidently, I wasn’t breathing as well as they wanted me to. So the nurse sticks an oxygen mask on my face. Ever had something blowing rubbery-tasting air down your throat when you feel like you’re going to be sick? Exactly. So I kept mumbling at her to take the damned mask off, but she refused. Finally, she turned her back, and I summoned enough strength to rip the mask off and throw it on the floor. She came back, looked at me sternly (nice bedside manner, huh?), and said, “I thought I told you to keep that mask on!” I looked at her, smiled, and proceeded to throw up all over her. I then smiled again, and said, “I thought I told YOU I was going to be sick.” At least that’s how my mom tells me it went…I don’t remember a damned thing of it.
CJ
ppgaz:
While I’m sure that this seriously worries you, I cannot agree with you about the umpire. That guy gets to make the call and gets to tell the players what he just did. If he changes his mind after making a solid or an ambiguous call (either way), tough sh!t. He’s the umpire. If he wants to close his eyes for every pitch and guess. Tough sh!t, he’s the umpire. If he wants to take an under the table payment on the off chance that a ball might conceivably touch the dirt on a swing and a miss on the last out in the bottom of the ninth, you better have video or else it’s “tough sh!t, he’s the umpire.”
I’m only 80% certain that the ball didn’t touch the dirt, but even if I were 100% sure, the catcher is paid big bucks to take every opportunity to make sure that the umpire doesn’t give the game away like that. Little Leaguers get chewed out for that sh!te; he should have gone to first.
CJ
Mr Furious
AnotherJeff, the line in the paper here (in Ann Arbor) was U-M by 3 1/2. How Michigan can be favored over a 6-0 team after their play this season is beyond me. Losing to Minnesota for the first time in like twenty years?
That said, I really don’t care about college football. Never followed it at all before moving here, and my interest only goes as far as how many cars I can park on my lawn (I live a few blocks from The Big House).
I think it wold have been exciting to live in town here and have the team compete for a title, but they’ve blown an early game every year I’ve lived here, in effect spoiling the season in September every time.
Mr Furious
Oops. I meant to copy and paste the PSU/U-M line…
Another Jeff
Furious,
I think the PSU/Michigan line comes down to the fact that
A) Despite their bad start, Michigan has as much talent as anyone in the country not named USC.
B) The idea of Michigan losing two straight in the Big House is unheard of and
C) Penn State has only played one road game this year and it was at Northwestern, and there were probably as many PSU fans as NW fans there. The Big House will be slightly different.
Mr Furious
Yeah, you’re probably right. And obviously know more than I do. My feeling is this: Michigan has been making a living (barely) over the last year or so, playing just well enough to win. So many of the games come down to one play or the last second. This year, they just don’t seem to be able to survive those types of games. Minnesota manhandled them last week, despite the closeness of the game. If Penn State is actually any good this year (I wouldn’t really know), I can’t see U-M getting it done.
Parking at my house begins at 2:00, $10 in the driveway, $15 EZ-Out…
Another Jeff
Are grills and open containers of alcohol allowed on the Furious property?
CaseyL
Man, I wish I followed college football, so I’d have something intelligent to say about it :)
Now, in pro football… well, I used to be a fanatic about pro football. Maybe I still would be if I lived in a city with a team that could find the end-zone without professional assistance. But I live in Seattle, where memories of the days of championships are fading, ever fading…
On NPR this morning, they noted that the Seahawks have not won a championship game in 21 years. Boy, did *that* make me feel old – coz I remember the last one, and how good it felt.
danelectro
open flame plus open alcohol. YES.
Shygetz
Hey, where’s the SEC love? My beloved Tennessee Vols are taking on the much-feared Open Date this weekend. I’ve got the Vols winning, 7-0, on a 4th quarter defensive touchdown, with Clausen throwing 2 INTs. In a more exciting game, what do people think of the Florida-LSU matchup? I think LSU is gonna clean Florida’s clock, winning by about 10.
Another Jeff
Shygetz,
It’s nothing personal against the SEC, I think it’s the best conference in the country.
But after that comeback your Vols pulled against LSU, when i had LSU, i vowed to not bet on another SEC game the rest of the year.
My history of screwing up SEC games notwithstanding, i agree with you about LSU/Florida. I’m not an expert on Urban Meyer’s offense, but from what i’ve read, if he doesn’t start tailoring his offense more to the players he has, Chris Leak is gonna get killed before the end of the year.
Mr Furious
You bet, and you can use the bathroom too.
But if you dump your ashes on the lawn like the motherfucker in the lowered Colorado pickup did to me a few games ago (please, please, try and park in my neighborhood again…), there’s gonna be trouble.
Shygetz
Another Jeff–Ouch, sorry about that. You have now learned what Knoxville veterans have known for almost a decade–never bet on a game when the Vols are involved, for or against. They will burn you either way.
jobiuspublius
And a warm hearty FUCKOFF to everyone. :)
Dexter
Do you mean play-off game? I don’t remember them being in the 1985 Super Bowl.
Mac Buckets
Another Jeff,
For me: USC, Mich, OSU giving 6.5, Texas giving 19.5, Louisville giving 7. The only game I’m playing out of those is USC (well, possibly Texas — I feel a 44-17 coming on there).
My Mac Buckets Tin-Plated, Two-and-a-half-Star, Shaeffer-Light Six-Pack of the Week® is: Texas Tech, Pitt, Tulsa, Nebraska, Houston and Northwestern.
Steve S
All hail Harriet! The Gift that just keeps on giving.
Rumor has it, Bush is so pissed over the dissent from the GOP wingnuts that he says if he withdraws her name, he’s nominating Hillary Clinton.
Gratefulcub
Where is John’s WVU football Saturday thread???? I have waited all year for this. My hometown Cardinals are headed to West Virginia to hang a 55 on the board. I don’t want to hear about the South Florida debacle. As my granddad said many times, “They got a littul big fer der britches.” They started listening to all the 11-0 talk and forgot they had to actually play. A 45-14 embarrassment takes care of those issues.
So all of you out there enjoying your Saturday watching to see if Texas will score another TD with an 18 point lead, or if they will just sit on it………give the points and take the Cardinals. Believe the hype (and forget South Florida).
danelectro
oh geez, mac. shaeffer *light*? no wonder you are so guys on the right are so cranky. i’ll bring the beer next time, ok?
demimondian
We have pro football in Seattle? I know that we have semi-pro up near the U-Dub, but…oh, you mean the minor league team that plays next to Safeco Field. I forgot about them.
Are they still playing?
Joey
I got one for you. What’s the last thing you want to hear as the first thing you hear when you wake up from surgery? “I think we gave him too much morphine, his heart rate is dropping awfully fast” I passed back out after that. I’m glad. I had already heard too much of that conversation.
Andrei
Fodder for the campfire.
Another Jeff
Wait a second, just noticed something: They talk about football on NPR?
Krista
But who will be bringing actual beer? You know…there’s a fundamental difference between Canada and the U.S. Our beer is a lot stronger, and our cigarettes are milder. But, American beer has a strong following up here – in the town where I’m from, a lot of people drink Bud Light. In Nova Scotia, though, there’s a pretty strong beer culture, and microbrews and foreign beers are quite popular. I like a nice amber ale, myself. Boddington’s is also very enjoyable.
Joey – yikes! That is definitely not something you’d want to hear!
Davebo
Michael Moore is Fat.
Karl Rove just has big bones.
Gratefulcub
He will lose weight in prison
Another Jeff
It’s about time Michael Moore got sent to prison.
p.lukasiak
I’ve nothing to say, but I saw that there were 99 comments so far, so I figured, why not put the thread into triple digits.
p.lukasiak
It’s nothing personal against the SEC, I think it’s the best conference in the country.
You mean Frist is being investigated by a football conference?
Mac Buckets
Most. Consistently. Overrated. Conference. Ever.
Don’t get me wrong, they have more good and just-above-mediocre teams than any other conference in the country. Last year, Auburn was very good, as was LSU the year before, obviously. But if all the hype about the SEC had any basis in reality, they’d place at least 2 teams in the Final Four (only one of five SEC teams even made it out of the 2nd round last year, and 4 were bounced by lower seeds), a team in the football National Championship game (the SEC put teams in 6 New Year’s bowl games last season and covered in exactly one of them), and 5 teams in the College World Series (the SEC is even more overrated in baseball than the other sports) every year…
It’s OK by me, though. I always make a few bucks betting against the SEC hype.
demimondian
Joey…yeah, that doesn’t sound like fun. Then again, in the middle of having my wisdom teeth out, I woke up and asked the oral surgeon what he thought he was doing. His response: “Oops! We’ve got a talker. We need to knock him back out.”
Mac Buckets
What I was implying was that these are not my favorite picks of the week. Those would be my “Julius Echter” picks (or maybe my “Chimay Grande Reserve” picks).
Gratefulcub
Basketball-absolutely. In Kentucky, we call it our conference. We have more regular season titles and SEC tourney titles than the rest of the conference combined. No conference consistently dominated by one team can be that great. I wish we had a Duke and a UNC to play twice a year. Instead, it is 16 games of someone trying to upset the Cats. It is a bit boring, there is no game to get up for, while everyone gets up to play Kentucky. The ACC is better every year, and the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, Big East are all on the same level as the SEC. The best from that pack depends on what year you ask.
Football – Come on. It is one of the premiere conferences in the country. The top half of the SEC can compete with the top half of any conference. But, the bottom half will dominate the bottom half of any other conference (especially if KY doesn’t get invited to this party). That is one of the reasons that SEC teams have little chance of winning the national title, too many tough conference games BEFORE you get to the SEC championship.
Baseball – If it is played with aluminum, it doesn’t deserve to be talked about.
Another Jeff
I agree with cub. I was only referring to football when i said it’s the best conference.
That’s why last year, even before Oklahoma’s implosion in the Orange Bowl, I said the BCS (Bullshit Championship Series) title game should’ve been USC and Auburn, not because i’m one of those rabid Oklahoma haters, but because any team that runs the table in the SEC has earned a shot.
Gratefulcub
That’s the problem with the BCS. They all three probably earned a shot. Was OU undefeated? I forget. The year before was even worse, USC and LSU should have been playing.
OU didn’t self desruct last year, USC was that much better. Auburn wouldn’t have been humiliated like that.
Since i am in the mood to trash the BCS, I just want to say this. The worst thing the BCS does to football, is it eliminates good non conference games. One loss and you are done. go undefeated, and start the year in the top 10, and you get your shot at a championship. Why would Texas go to OSU in September? Stupid. They almost cost themselves a title shot.
Miami FSU and Florida should play a round robin every year. But, is it really fair to ask Florida to go undefeated in the SEC, and oh by the way, beat Miami and FSU to prove they are the best team. Va Tech has to beat Ga Tech and FSU, and they can punch their ticket to the Rose Bowl.
But this isn’t a problem solely because of the BCS. The old system has the same flaws. A playoff is the only option. Now if we can get 30 bowl hosts and sponsors and college presidents to give up their millions for the good of football fans…………
Halffasthero
The Big Ten. Football at its finest. : )
Another Jeff
Mac,
You’ll be happy to know that JoePa trashed the BCS this week. I guess now that he’s 6-0, he can start being pompous again.
My theory is, an eight or even four team playoff would be okay. If it were four teams, you’re right about tough non-conference games. Teams woulnd’t schedule them.
But let’s say last year, there was a four team playoff with USC, Auburn, OU, and Texas (since Mack Brown would’ve cried like a little girl to get the fourth spot). Nobody would’ve complained that there wasn’t a real champion.
And the reason I said OU imploded was because the game was an even slugfest until the guy from OU tried to pick up that punt that was rolling along inside his own ten yd line and he fumbled it. It was all downhill from there.
Another Jeff
Sorry, I was actually responding to gratefulcub, not mac in the previous one.
Another Jeff
One last thing and then I’m off to the Irish Pub, where there’s a Ketal One and Red Bull with my name on it (i have to meet my fiance and her parents for dinner. Believe me, you’d drink beforehand too if you ever met my future in-laws).
One of my major gripes with the BCS is that what basically set the wheels in motion for it was in 1994 when my beloved Nittany Lions and Nebraska couldn’t play for the National Title because of the Big 10’s automatic bid to the Rose Bowl (and i also think back then Nebraska, as Big 8 champion, had to play in the Orange Bowl).
So, they basically created this system where automatic conference bids wouldn’t prevent two undefeated teams from playing each other.
Well, in the ENTIRE time they were coming up with this, didn’t ANYONE stop to say “hey, guys, what happens if there are three or four undefeated teams?” or “what happens if there are three teams all with one loss”.
It’s just fucking mind-boggling.
Bob
danelectro, your handle reminds me:
When I was much younger and lived in a land far away (New Jersey), I knew a guy who had a Danelectro. I think the damned thing was made from plywood, but it had the greatest action of any guitar I’ve ever played. You could breathe on the neck and form chords. And it got great buzzing tones out of those lipstick pickups. He was the son of a brutal guard at Rahway State Prison, the kid who owned it. He looked to be on a path of self-destruction at the time. Had a great guitar, though.
I think that the Danelectro Company, under the Coral name, produced those electric sitars, stuff you’d hear on songs like B.J. Thomas’ “Hooked On A Feeling” and “Eyes Of A New York Woman.” Boy I wish I had gotten one of those back then. Got a Framus 12-string acoustic, and that was good, I loved how it would ring out, but I sold that before I went into the army. With my check from basic training I got a Gibson Everly Brothers model, and that served me well for a long time.
—
TallDave, thanks for reading my blog. I’ve got a piece there today which reviews Chuck Norris’ “Invasion U.S.A.” and how it dovetails with Bush’s foreign policy.
Halffasthero
I remember that year and the Lions had a great team (as did Nebraska). I am a purist where the bowl games are concerned and love watching the Rose Bowl with the Big Ten and the PAC Ten playing each other. I am a Minnesota Gopher fan. To tell you the truth, I would rather keep it that way and let the sports writers guess who is the national champion. The Rose Bowl is the grand daddy of them all and would just as soon keep it free of the BCS and corprate sponsers (they were the last to get one). Who cares after all? They will always find new ways to get it wrong on the title. And even with a playoff, there would be complaints as to who is entitled to play.
By the way, I was glad you did not say Penn State HAD to play in the Rose Bowl. Complaining about that is blaspheme as far as I am concerned. : )
Joey
lol, were you calm about it, or was it one of those “What the fuck are you doing!?!?!” type deals? And the doc’s response is a little scary. Sounds like that happens all the time or something.
demimondian
Are you kidding? Here I am, out on nitous and novocaine, and I wake up (as much as I can), and there’s a guy with his knee against my chest? Calm was not the word for me…
As to the doc…someday, I’ll tell the story of the doctor who repaired my shoulder when I was twenty…
Krista
Demimondian – oh come on! Tell, you big tease!
Krista
At least you didn’t have your father hitting on your surgeon…
Tim F
I bet they’re out polishing the bottle as we speak.
heh. I hope like hell this isn’t the no-cheap-shot thread or I’m banned for sure.
CaseyL
Yes, but only in the context of it being sublimated ritualized warfare that glorifies patriarchy.
Well. That, and the fact that the ‘Hawks suck.
DaveC
Speaking of football, I think Oprah should come down to the Mountaineers vs Panthers game and have all the players hold hands, then the captains could share with everybody else all their deepest self-doubts and feelings of inadequacy, and then the teams could cry a little bit and hug each other. I think that it would be good for the country and especially Dave Wannstedt.
Bob
I’m so lonely without you, John.
Another Jeff
I doubt you’ll be banned. I actually thought it was quite funny and i’m the one it was directed at.
But since since i think you’ve said you’re in Western PA, I’ll just say “ha-ha, the Penguins suck!”
Bob
Gee, there must be another Bob. But I do feel a, well, an emptiness when there isn’t the routine celebration of reactionary bile heaved forth here.
ppGaz
Good work on your Miller piece, Bob.
Dexter
Too bad; so sad, Judy! You can bet she would have spilled her guts earlier if it would have implicated someone in the Bush Administration.
Tim F
Ouchie. My only consolation is that Pittsburgh ain’t Canada. Sometimes you have to gently remind us that we have a hockey team.
Now pick on the Stillers and we’ll talk. If John doesn’t man you first, natch.
Tim F
‘man,’ ‘ban,’ what’s the difference. feh.
Mac Buckets
Well, I missed USC, but Texas won 42-17, so I was pretty darn spot-on there.
Winner, Winner, Winner, Winner, Loser, Winner. And I gave you those for free!