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You are here: Home / Politics / To Censure or Not To Censure?

To Censure or Not To Censure?

by John Cole|  March 16, 200610:41 am| 35 Comments

This post is in: Politics

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Yesterday, Glenn Greenwald wrote a scathing piece taking Kevin Drum to task for not supporting the Russ Feingold censure proposal. Today, the NY Times seems to suggest Drum may be right:

Republicans, worried that their conservative base lacks motivation to turn out for the fall elections, have found a new rallying cry in the dreams of liberals about censuring or impeaching President Bush.

The proposal this week by Senator Russell D. Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin, to censure Mr. Bush over his domestic eavesdropping program cheered the left. But it also dovetailed with conservatives’ plans to harness such attacks to their own ends.

With the Republican base demoralized by continued growth in government spending, undiminished violence in Iraq and intramural disputes over immigration, some conservative leaders had already begun rallying their supporters with speculation about a Democratic rebuke to the president even before Mr. Feingold made his proposal.

“Impeachment, coming your way if there are changes in who controls the House eight months from now,” Paul Weyrich, a veteran conservative organizer, declared last month in an e-mail newsletter.

The threat of impeachment, Mr. Weyrich suggested, was one of the only factors that could inspire the Republican Party’s demoralized base to go to the polls. With “impeachment on the horizon,” he wrote, “maybe, just maybe, conservatives would not stay at home after all.”

It remains to be seen whether the GOP can manage to maintain their majority this fall with a campaign of spin. Really, if your party is rallying the base with cries that ‘Vote so they can’t impeach/censure Bush,’ it is time to put away the “Democrats don’t have any ideas’ schtick. From what I have seen from this administration, they only have three ideas anyway- cut taxes, cater to the religous right and do whatever it takes to keep getting elected.

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35Comments

  1. 1.

    Doctor Gonzo

    March 16, 2006 at 10:52 am

    With approval ratings in the 30s, it’s hard to see how “Vote so they can’t impeach/censure Bush” can be a rallying cry. I think that more people than not would be perfectly fine with censuring Bush if the news got out that he was breaking the law.

  2. 2.

    The Other Steve

    March 16, 2006 at 10:56 am

    Umm, the key to the Republican base strategy was the assumption that they’d get 50% of the independents.

    I don’t think that’s a strong possibility.

  3. 3.

    Glenn Greenwald

    March 16, 2006 at 11:19 am

    If the Republicans are so thrilled with the NSA issue and think that it’s so politically beneficial for them, how come they keep doing everything possible to make it the whole thing go away as quickly as possible? They tried to bury every investigation. They tried to get a quick legislative solution to ensure that their conduct would be rendered legal. And this week, Sen. Frist tried to force an immediate vote on Feingold’s Censure Resolution – before anyone could even read it, let alone debate it – so that it would be immediately cast out of the news without any attention.

    That’s very odd behavior for a political party which claims to want this scandal to stay in the spotlight supposedly because it makes them look so great, energizes their base, makes Democrats look like best friends with The Terrorists, etc. etc. If the Republicans really found this scandal so politically valuable, there were all kinds of things they could have done to ensure that it got maximum attention. They didn’t do any of them. They did the opposite – they have been working desperately to kill this scandal and make it go away as quickly and quietly as possible from the beginning.

    It’s just irrational to think that it’s beneficial for Republicans to have the focus be on whether Bush should be censured for having broken the law when spying on Americans without judicial oversight. And the bravado of Bush followers over the whole affair is directly contradicted by all of their actions. I’d say actions speak louder than bravado.

  4. 4.

    scarshapedstar

    March 16, 2006 at 11:21 am

    Yeah, I’m sure the independents will be thrilled to see the neanderthal faithful turning out in record numbers to protect the Torturer-in-Chief.

  5. 5.

    Mr Furious

    March 16, 2006 at 11:33 am

    John, careful, you are in danger of playing the old “Rush feigns concern for what the Democrats are doing to themselves…” card.

    For once I’d like to see Democrats (or any politician for that matter) do something because it’s what is RIGHT. Without worrying about polls, elections or the opposition.

    That’s what Feingold is doing, and his Party is going to fucking hang him out to dry.

    THAT and only that is why the Democrats look like such fucking pussies on national security. They won’t fight on anything that isn’t poll pre-approved or in the bank vote-wise, they run away. I almost cannot blame someone for thinking they’d do the same in a national security situation. It’s all hypothetical, there actually isn’t a track record of national securty weakness, it’s all perception. And the Democrats are doing everthing possible to live down to it.

    John, sometimes I fear I feel just as disillusioned with my Party as you are with yours.

    Glenn, your post is great, by the way. you are doing tremendous work these days.

  6. 6.

    Pooh

    March 16, 2006 at 12:12 pm

    To go Paddy O’Shea for a moment…

    46-44 In favor of censure. 48-43 amongst likely voters. But, since many dems seem to prefer the Monty Python strategy their good friends on the right are suggesting…RUN AWAY. RUN AWAY.

  7. 7.

    A Hermit

    March 16, 2006 at 12:21 pm

    Why on Earth does anyone suppose that taking Rush Limbaugh’s advice on anything other than bulk pharmeceutical purchasing is a good idea?

    Glenn Greenwald is absolutely right on this one. Let the Republicans rally around their President and his 33% approval rating.

  8. 8.

    mrmobi

    March 16, 2006 at 12:26 pm

    I think you’re right on, Glenn. And thanks for the excellent coverage of the NSA thing. Republicans are terrified that there will be a real investigation, and they’ve closed ranks and gone into full stonewall mode.

    All that’s necessary now is for Democrats to strap on a pair and take a chance, do something that is right. We won’t win, of course, but at least we will have taken a stand. What is happening now is a measure of the fear that has taken hold of the Democrats. Hats off to Karl Rove, he sure is scary, and Democrats appear to be, strategically at least, out of ideas.

  9. 9.

    srv

    March 16, 2006 at 12:37 pm

    Amazing, Rove can drive strategy for the Republicans AND Democrats.

  10. 10.

    Blue Neponset

    March 16, 2006 at 12:39 pm

    All that’s necessary now is for Democrats to strap on a pair and take a chance

    Amen mrmobi.

    I thought it was a bad time for Fiengold to change the subject with his censure resolution, but watching the Dem Senators crawl away with their tails between their legs is going to hurt the party more.

    Each Democrat in the Senate/House needs to go to a Fraternity party this weekend and see what happens when someone takes a swing at one of the members of the Fraternity. I am sure they will see that the person who threw the punch got whaled on by every single member of the Fraternity. That is what the Dems should be doing for Fiengold. The Repubs are taking pot shots at Feingold and the Dems are debating whether to take their thumbs out of their asses or push them in further. It is embarrasing to watch this happen.

  11. 11.

    ppGaz

    March 16, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    Why on Earth does anyone suppose that taking Rush Limbaugh’s advice on anything other than bulk pharmeceutical purchasing is a good idea?

    Best line of the day.

    Tip o’the hat to you, sir.

  12. 12.

    KC

    March 16, 2006 at 12:46 pm

    I’m still not convinced that this isn’t Feingold trying to win a primary. Moreover, I do think this has just taken the wind out of Dems during a time when they were on top. I really think Feingold should have at least given his caucus a few days notice, at least so a spin strategy could be devised. This is the problem for me: Republicans are way better at the PR game than Dems. I believe censure is the right thing to do, but Feingold chose the wrong way to do it. He has made the caucus look even weaker and given the Republicans a good storyline to run with. I mean, the newspapers could have been discussing Dems pay-go Senate measure that was introduced yesterday that the Republicans squashed, instead they’re still talking about loose cannon Feingold’s measure and his dissing of the Dems. If Joe Lieberman had done something similar, the Left would be in a rage.

  13. 13.

    ppGaz

    March 16, 2006 at 12:54 pm

    KC — do you really think that any of that matters in a country where around 10% of people pay any attention to national political news? That’s about the total audience for cable and network national prime time news the last time I look at the ratings.

    The rest of the country either ignores it, or gets the 30 second summary from their local news show. Most Americans couldn’t tell Russ Feingold from Bess Myerson.

    Most Americans look at the big picture. As of today, the big picture is that 26 percent think the country is on the right track. That’s the lowest number I can remember going back to Nixon days. Three of four are not happy with the way things are going.

    Think about that. Republican executive, legislative and judicial. Total control. Three fourths are not satisfied.

    I got your “Republicans are way better” bullshit right here.

  14. 14.

    M.A.

    March 16, 2006 at 1:01 pm

    “Vote for me or my opponent will be mean to a President most of you don’t like anyway.” Great campaign slogan.

    One point here is that since most people don’t pay attention to details (they really don’t), many people may like the idea of censuring the President simply because they’ll think of it as a way of slapping Bush on the wrist for all the crappy things he’s done. In other words it’s not necessarily going to play out as “Feingold wants to censure Bush for fighting them terrarrrists.” People will see the headline “Feingold calls for censure of Bush,” and say — yeah, Bush sucks, censure him.

    As for the timing, I think Feingold handled it poorly, but it’s the right time, because the Senate is about to go on recess and the Senators will be going home to get an earful from their constituents. We’ll see what they say when they get back and the thing comes out of committee.

  15. 15.

    Capriccio

    March 16, 2006 at 1:13 pm

    Actually Feingold’s timing was practically 11th hour. The medical evidence is that a spine transplant needs at least a year to take. This was an emergency procedure because neither the Democrats nor the country have much time left to save themselves.

  16. 16.

    scarshapedstar

    March 16, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    I’m still not convinced that this isn’t Feingold trying to win a primary.

    So what? He deserves to win. He would get my vote in a heartbeat. I don’t see any other Democrat doing a goddamn thing.

  17. 17.

    Barry

    March 16, 2006 at 2:22 pm

    Glenn, or somebody, made a comment that the resonableness of a proposition is defined more by the support it gets, rather than the other way around. If the Democrats in the Senate actually rallied, this would become ‘reasonable’.

  18. 18.

    Rome Again

    March 16, 2006 at 2:25 pm

    Actually Feingold’s timing was practically 11th hour. The medical evidence is that a spine transplant needs at least a year to take.

    Hilarious and very true. I hope these currently spineless Dems figure it out soon, or else I may have to vote for the opposition just to ensure they own their problems next term, at the moment I’m not sure we want that kind of responsibility with the lousy leadership we’re sporting. It would be a “go for broke” move, but we’re pretty well screwed already anyway.

    *________________________*

    John, I’m glad to see you’re back, and well again. I’ve not left, merely been lurking and wondering if the management of this place was going sour. Glad to see it isn’t.

  19. 19.

    p.lukasiak

    March 16, 2006 at 2:33 pm

    One point here is that since most people don’t pay attention to details (they really don’t), many people may like the idea of censuring the President simply because they’ll think of it as a way of slapping Bush on the wrist for all the crappy things he’s done. In other words it’s not necessarily going to play out as “Feingold wants to censure Bush for fighting them terrarrrists.” People will see the headline “Feingold calls for censure of Bush,” and say—yeah, Bush sucks, censure him.

    this is absolutely true. The question on the ARG poll cited above was

    Do you favor or oppose the United States Senate passing a resolution censuring President George W. Bush for authorizing wiretaps of Americans within the United States without obtaining court orders?

    now, “independent” votes were against this by 42-47%. But ask those exact same “independent” voters if they want Bush impeached, and they favor it 47-40%.

    IMHO, all the Democrats have to do is emphasize that the reason for the censure is the illegal nature of the wiretapping and surveillance, and the numbers supporting censure would go way up.

  20. 20.

    Paddy O'Shea

    March 16, 2006 at 2:34 pm

    New American Research Group Poll published today shows voters favoring Censure 48% to 43%.

    Not what a lot of folks might have expected.

    http://americanresearchgroup.com

  21. 21.

    p.lukasiak

    March 16, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    So what? He deserves to win. He would get my vote in a heartbeat. I don’t see any other Democrat doing a goddamn thing.

    right now, Feingold has made himself the darling of the “progressive” grassroots/netroots democrats — and that spells trouble for the rest of the field. This is going to make a huge difference in the way the Democratic primary plays out if Feingold keeps playing to the Dem base like this….

  22. 22.

    RonB

    March 16, 2006 at 2:44 pm

    I’m still not convinced that this isn’t Feingold trying to win a primary.

    I’m sure it has been mentioned. I’m sure its in the back of Feingold’s mind. But, he does have a history of bucking on the subject of surveillance and so it seems natural enough to me.

  23. 23.

    fwiffo

    March 16, 2006 at 3:16 pm

    Feingold has a history of taking risky positions and is willing to do so all alone. Remember – he was the only senator to vote against the Patriot act the first time around; nobody stood with him. By the time it came up for rewnewal, he’d moved the majority opinion substantially in his direction, and some of the more controversial provisions didn’t make the cut.

    His voting record is arguably the most independant in the senate. Check out this graph:
    http://freedomdemocrats.org/node/526

    He’s the blue dot way out in libertarian territory.

    I’m amazed at Democrats, cowering with this president’s numbers so low. The administration just has to raise the specter of the war and the Democrats run and hide. … Too many Democrats are going to do the same thing they did in 2000 and 2004. In the face of this, they’ll say we’d better just focus on domestic issues. … [Democrats shouldn’t] cower to the argument, that whatever you do, if you question the administration, you’re helping the terrorists.

    Thank loud clanking noise you hear is coming from Russ Feingold’s pants.

  24. 24.

    Jane Finch

    March 16, 2006 at 4:14 pm

    Glenn Greenwald used to be an excellent source of criticism of the Administration. Recently, he’s joined the Jane Hamsher/Digby/Atrios echo chamber and is a whole lot less interesting, and a whole lot less interested in analysis.

  25. 25.

    Slide

    March 16, 2006 at 5:01 pm

    Make the Republicans defend the 33% approval rate President. Thats fine with me.

  26. 26.

    Pb

    March 16, 2006 at 6:01 pm

    ppGaz,

    Actually, it does matter, in terms of primary votes and campaign contributions — liberals / progressives are the richest and most politically active Democrats, and thus, they are the demographic to cater to if you want the contributions and primary votes.

    However, what Feingold is doing now has been entirely consistent with… well, what Feingold has been doing and saying all along, wrt. his opposition to the Patriot Act, and strong support for civil liberties. In fact, he’s opposing the President for doing illegally what he couldn’t shoehorn into the PATRIOT Act in the first place:

    it was in reviewing those provisions that I came to feel that the Administration’s demand for haste was inappropriate; indeed, it was dangerous. Our process in the Senate, as truncated as it was, did lead to the elimination or significant rewriting of a number of audacious proposals that I and many other members found objectionable.

    For example, the original Administration proposal contained a provision that would have allowed the use in U.S. criminal proceedings against U.S. citizens of information obtained by foreign law enforcement agencies in wiretaps that would be illegal in this country. In other words, evidence obtained in an unconstitutional search overseas was to be allowed in a U.S. court.

    So, this stance may well help Feingold in a Presidential bid–because he’s doing the right thing, and consistently so.

  27. 27.

    Kim

    March 16, 2006 at 6:06 pm

    Then it behooves us even more to call them and remind them they don’t work for themselves.

  28. 28.

    CJ

    March 16, 2006 at 8:03 pm

    KC Says: If Joe Lieberman had done something similar, the Left would be in a rage.

    If Joe Lieberman stated even the mildest criticism of Bush mumbled through a ball-gag while George played his dominatrix the Left’s head would explode from shock.

  29. 29.

    Zifnab

    March 16, 2006 at 8:06 pm

    On Daschal, on Kerry,
    on Liberman, on Gore.
    If you keep pussying out
    they’ll vote for you more.
    And you all have seen how well compromise and kid gloves have gone. The Republicans aren’t playing softball anymore. Bipartisanship died on a blue dress in ’98 and Democrats just seem to refuse to accept that.

    Frankly, when the primaries start heating up, I think Feingold is one of the few contenders who Democrats can look to with heart. He’s willing to take the bull by the horns and call bullshit. I look forward to seeing him run. With the stands he’s made on the Senate floor, he’s earned it.

  30. 30.

    Blue Shark

    March 16, 2006 at 8:23 pm

    Laugh away…

    …but Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia can be counted on for probably a 15% swing to the Republicans…more than that?…well lets just say that if you consider 2000, 2002, and 2004 in the least bit fishy, stand by for 2006 when fish will be served in every house in America.

    …what amazes me is that it is your rights as well as mine that are being trampled…don’t you care?

  31. 31.

    Blue Shark

    March 16, 2006 at 8:33 pm

    One additional point…

    …lets say no censure for lack of stones. The president continues illegal wire taps and somehow, against all odds, wire taps the stupidest terrorist alive. The Justice department drags him/her into court and guess what?

    …I’m the defense attorney and I just creamed my jeans cuz EVERTHING gained by an illegal wiretap is INADMISSABLE.

    …Stupidest. Administration. Ever.

  32. 32.

    Pooh

    March 17, 2006 at 1:03 am

    Why do we care if Feingold is trying to win a primary? If we want a guy with balls, and a guy makes a ballsy move to show us he has balls…

    I mean if we play the motivation meta-game we get nowhere.

  33. 33.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    March 17, 2006 at 1:11 am

    I’m glad I got a job. It made me realize how uninformed the average American is.

    The uninformed citizen will be the downfall of this country.

    Ya’ll can go fuck yourselves–seriously.

  34. 34.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    March 17, 2006 at 1:11 am

    That includes you, douchebag…

  35. 35.

    Psyberian

    March 18, 2006 at 8:20 am

    I like the idea of the censure since it puts the republicans on the defense. If politics is anything like chess, then keeping the other side covering itself is the main object of the game. Dems can’t ever win playing only defense.

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