If any of you can explain how this post and this ‘investigation’ by the Wonkette folks is anything more than piling on, butting into someone’s professional career, and just plain run-of-the-mill assholishness, I am all ears.
Hey WOnkette- It is none of your damned business.
What do you people want- the guy dead, for goodness sakes?
MattM
Percentage of Wonkette posts that could be classified as “none of Wonkette’s business” – 85%
Let’s not pretend this is anything new. Sorry it’s a friend of yours.
kl
“What do you people want- the guy dead, for goodness sakes?”
That’s a rhetorical question, right?
Edmund Dantes
I was going to do some snark then I realized this is just another page view churning thread.
Steve
Cindy Sheehan’s #1 stalker is complaining about piling on? Rich.
MI
It does seem like piling on and I don’t really care anymore (about the story, not the piling on). BUT when you’re a moralist and get busted for lying, plagiarism, whatever, it’s difficult, for me anyway, to muster a whole lot of sympathy for you when you get taken to the woodshed. That being said, dude didn’t rape someone or kidnap a baby, so yeah, it’s a bit much alraedy.
p.lukasiak
“What do you people want- the guy dead, for goodness sakes?”
what are out other choices?
Tulkinghorn
Consider it class warfare against a self designated aristocracy. Furthermore, when people like Ben accuse you of being a traiter for challenging them, you want to see them go all the way down.
Show me where he has ever acted like a gentleman, and I will agree to treat him like one.
p.lukasiak
That being said, dude didn’t rape someone or kidnap a baby, so yeah, it’s a bit much alraedy.
not that we know of, but Abramoff is co-operating with the prosecution, we still don’t know if the Sun Cruz Casino ship ever docked at Aruba, and Natalee Holloway is still missing…..
p.lukasiak
oh, and John, since Ben is a friend of yours….
if he gets really desperate, and needs a place to stay, Rich Tafel would probably let him crash at his place. But only if Ben has “hit bottom”, as it were….
Punchy
Anytime an arrogant, quasi-racially intolerant blowhard gets his comeuppance, it’s deserved. When he’s exposed as a fraud but then decides to blame everyone else, it’s expected.
Vladi G
Well, from what I’ve read from Domenech, he seems like a run of the mill asshole, so this is probably par for the course. Then again, it may not have been him actually writing any of that stuff for all we know.
Steve
Shouldn’t you be glad the Wonkettes of the Left are piling on Ben Domenech, instead of piling on America?
p.lukasiak
oh, and in further RotStadt news….
Blanton Exits Stage Left
Blanton, for those of you who weren’t paying close attention to the whole Box Turtle Ben debable, was one of the more obvious racists that BTB was often confused with over at Cole’s other home…
stickler
Domenech is a spoiled, smallminded 24 year old hack. But far worse, he is a cog in a well-oiled political machine. One which is likely to re-hire him in six weeks at six figures a year — no matter what some winsome bloggerette publishes about him.
The malevolent propaganda machine that produced Domenech is dangerous to the continued existence of democratic government in America. So if his character is further sullied, forgive me if I don’t shed a tear.
Par R
Over at Eschaton, Tiny Meat has a Link to this Wonkette item, with the statement, “Wonkette has some information which may or not be true. I have no idea. Caveat lector, yada yada.” In Tiny Meat’s very next post on another subject, he says:
“Any reporter who passes along without verification something they found on some random website somewhere is an idiot, but that has little to do with whether the identity of the person running the website is known or not.
“…just adding, there’s a difference between simply quoting an anonymous blog, as in “Internet commentator AlGoreRox asserts ‘Bush is a big weenie'” and passing on unverified or unverifiable information from a blog, such as “AlGoreRox say Bush is a child molester.” The latter is what reporters shouldn’t do, but of course it’s something they should be hesitant to do whether that’s an anonymous blogger, a named blogger, or Karl Rove.”
Well, I guess for once Tiny Meat has accurately described himself as an idiot.
Pooh
yawn
Steve
Atrios is a reporter, eh? I can’t wait to find out where Par copied that nonsensical rant from.
WyldPirate
Face it Cole, Rethuglicans are pretty much just habitual liars, crooks and fuck ups. Moreover, it says a lot about your piss-poor judgement that you hung with them so long
After all the rotten lies and shit Rethugs told for eight entire years of the Clinton administration, it also says a lot about your naivete that you act surprised that some of the rotten lying cocksuckers and thieves on the left get creamed,
In reality, it should be happening in the mainstream media that Rethugs so love to say is biased (but isn’t) as the media has practically given the whole lying lot of thieves and incompetents that have hijacked the Rethuglican PArty a free pass for the last decade plus.
Speaks a lot towards your poor judgement that you hung with them so long
Par R
Amen. Good old Poop Head is always good for a yawn, probably a substitute for an inability to form consecutive sentences.
don surber
Gee John, why not hire Ben as a guest poster to offset Tim F?
Pooh
Here is one complete sentence. I think I can manage a second. I Win! Wait, that’s three. Am I limited to two and two only?
Par R
Steve, another misbegotten fool heard from. Perhaps if he has the intellectual ability, he may be able to wander over to Eschaton and note the source for the above verbatim quotes. That’s probably asking too much, however.
WyldPirate
Now that Domenech has gotten fired from Regnery, perhaps he could cowboy up and drag his priveleged ass down to a recruiting station. I hear the military needs some infantry in Iraqnam.
Perhaps his daddy can swing a direct commission for him like Shrubya got….and then he can skip out on his duty for eight months or so.
Pooh
Failure the Insult Comic Troll has arrived.
Par R
Poop Head, I would urge you not to stretch those obviously limited cranial functions too far. Keep your sentences to very simple and short words.
Mr Furious
Wonkette sucks. The fact that Ana Marie stopped running that site hasn’t changed it for the better. It always bothers me that that site gets lumped in as representative of a “lefty blog” when its really is nothing more than US Weekly out of D.C.
p.lukasiak
Now that Domenech has gotten fired from Regnery, perhaps he could cowboy up and drag his priveleged ass down to a recruiting station. I hear the military needs some infantry in Iraqnam.
seriously, John. Have you suggested that Ben maybe take this embarrassment as an opportunity to serve his country in the Army infantry? Its the closest thing we’ve got to the French Foreign Legion nowadays, and if there is anyone who really should find a place to disappear for a decade or two, its Box Turtle Bennie….
http://www.goarmy.com
Pooh
Nice cigar.
Steve
The point, Par, is that you are not known for originality.
SeesThroughIt
Basically, yeah, fuck that guy. If he’s gonna stick himself out like that, he shouldn’t be surprised when he gets chopped down to size.
But I don’t want him dead. Unlike his Red State brethren, I’m not into advocating the death of people with whom I disagree politically. Exposing the depth of his ineptitude is good enough for me.
Alexandra
I don’t remember Republicans being members of the Mind Your Own Beeswax club when Monica was wearing the blue dress. And can anyone honestly tell me WHY that seemed so all-fire important? So let us have our little fun.
Par R
And you, Steve, are not known for accuracy and truthfulness.
Brian in Oakland
John, WOnkette IS the Jane Hamsher’s of the Left.
Pooh
I’ll just take your word for it, because around here, a man’s word is his bond. Steve why do you have to lie by using Par’s own words like that?
p.lukasiak
a prayer…
The Other Steve
I have to agree with WyldPirate. Given Mr. Domenech has never held a real job in his life, and has no clue what it means to be an American. He ought to go down to the recruiters station and sign up.
Look, if he wants something easy.. my cousin is a Navy recruiter down in Arizona. I’ll get his phone # for him. He probably wouldn’t even have to serve in Iraq. I’m sure we could find him a nice cushy job on board a Destroyer. He’d spend most of his days painting the side of the ship. It’s good hard work, and would make an honest man out of him.
don surber
As a veteran, I resent the “join the Army” meme. The Army neither wants nor needs a plagiarizing college dropout like Ben Domenech polluting its ranks. He would not make it through basic
Andrew
But boy, that sure would be a satisfying reality show.
Par R
Now, now, Poop Head…everyone knows that you shouldn’t try being “clever” with multi-word phrases and that little play on words. You have amply demonstrated in the past that you aren’t even as clever as your PC.
Stormy70
p.lukasiak – you are the last who should throw stones, or do you think some of us have forgotton the whole “memos” thing?
Pooh
Oh yeah, before I forget
What else does wonkette do? Aside from canonize a big furry thing of course.
Andrew
But boy, that sure would be a satisfying reality show.
Survivor: Fort Benning
Tulkinghorn
I don’t want Ben dead in a physical sense, I just want him gone and never coming back to any national role of any kind. I want the professional equivalent of a stake through the heart, never to return.
If you are a lawyer and get busted cheating, you get disbarred. If you are a doctor and you do the equivalent, you lose your license. If you are a plumber and you hook up the city’s drinking water system with a sewer pipe, you lose you license.
All I want is the equivalent for Ben, and only because he deserves it. Journalists do not have licenses, just reputations. His is ruined, and let it be known far and wide.
Andrew
Stupid web browser.
Pooh
From the expert of word play, that stings.
Barbar
Hold on tight, the whaaaaambulance is on its way!
Steve
Well, Darrell once called me a liar, and if you can’t trust a United States Senator I’m not sure who you can trust. Kind of interesting, though, that while I linked to one of Par’s posts to show exactly what I meant, he seems to be having trouble finding even one post of mine that wasn’t true.
jaime
Wow. Ben is even getting it from the Don Surbers’ of the right. Don Surber included.
p.lukasiak
oh, I’m sure you’ll never forget it…. i’m just hoping that at some point you actually understand it
p.lukasiak
I don’t want Ben dead in a physical sense, I just want him gone and never coming back to any national role of any kind. I want the professional equivalent of a stake through the heart, never to return.
actually, I’d get a great deal of satisfaction seeing Ben on the 2008 version of Celebrity Fit Club….
Stormy70
I love that you guys are taking this so seriously! I guess Biden and Doris Kearns Goodwin will be hearing from all of you soon for their sins of plagiarism. Or do they get a pass for being liberals? If you have the right politics, then all is forgiven! See also: Kennedy, Byrd, Clinton, Sheehan, Galloway, Castro, Chavez.
Do you need this guy’s first born, too?
Zifnab
Fuck Ben. After the way the right-wing media machine evisserates every outspoken liberal voice, it’s nice to see the lying scum on the right get their come-uppance. Burn the bastard in effigy and let every Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Savage and Ann Coulter quake in fear.
Slide
yeah. metaphorically speaking of course. I want him dead and buried. I find it truly humerous when the right wing whines that the left plays too rough and tough… wahhhhhh… wahhhhh…. truly precious isn’t it? come on guys…? years and years of Rush Limbaugh…. Sean Hannity…. Bill O’Reilly… Ann Coulter… Mike Savage…. viciously going after anyone that disagrees with their world view but turn the tables on them and give them a taste of their own medicine and they cry like the little cowardly bullies they are. As for Cole, what a freakin hypocrite. Here this little guy that has been going after the mother of a slain veteran with an obsession that would make Captain Ahab proud, is all upset because his little friend is getting a little of what he dished out on a reqular basis. Like I said, precious.
nyrev
What do you people want- the guy dead, for goodness sakes?
Of course not. If he were dead, the Everyones of the Everythings would all be debating whether he fertilized daisies by his own merit or by stealing phosphorus and nitrogen from the other corpses and pretending it was his.
Come on. The flowers are pretty and all, but can you say ‘morbid?’
Peach
I don’t want Ben dead in a physical sense, I just want him gone and never coming back to any national role of any kind. I want the professional equivalent of a stake through the heart, never to return.
Nice. I guess absent any meaningful win, one needs to dumb down the victory bar.
Pooh
We’re talking about Ben Domenech, not Iraq. Stay on topic people.
Tulkinghorn
Stormy:
All the politicians you mention faced a test–they had been caught plagiarizing but were not voted out of office.
A journalist is held to a higher standard than a politician, that is all.
If BTB were a politician it would just be a matter for his constituants to decide.
As for Doris Kearns Goodwin, she is not a journalist either, and I am not sure why you are defining her as a liberal.
Peach
stake through the heart,
Sorry I was confused by the natural tendency to want to inflict violence and then bemoan the security situation at the same time.
Darrell
Tell me the left isn’t really bitter and unhinged
p.lukasiak
POTD
Tulkinghorn
Peach:
you are deliberately mischaracterizing and misquoting my post, then criticizing it. Well done. I guess that means you win the argument, big guy.
Tobin Maker
It’s Ben’s own fault for opening his mouth and inviting us to shit in it…
Slide
oh I think the left has every right to be bitter – but unhinged? Couldn’t disagree more. I’ve never seen the left so “hinged” in my life.
Action1
Any time the right wing hypocrites are exposed for who they really are the better. The American people are taking second looks at all the hypocrites in the Republican Party. It’s about time. All it does is make me laugh.
Action1
From the once great State of Michigan
Tulkinghorn
or that the whole ‘personal responsibility’ issue really sucks when it is applied to the moralists…
don surber
“F– Ben. After the way the right-wing media machine evisserates every outspoken liberal voice, it’s nice to see the lying scum on the right get their come-uppance. Burn the bastard in effigy”
I agree. and I am like totally hinged. so there
Darrell
Don’t forget Joseph “forged documents” Wilson… canonized by leftists as ‘speaking truth to power’
ppGaz
No, I thought it was a poll, and that he’d take care of it if we voted “Yes”
Sort of like the Larry the Lobster poll.
Save Larry vs Kill Larry
Steve
Kind of funny for people to bring up Kennedy and Byrd in the context of arguing that the statute of limitations has run on Ben Domenech.
p.lukasiak
speaking of unapologetic….
the dixie chicks have a new, kick-ass single
stickler
Mr. Lukasiak above suggested that Box Turtle Ben should join the Army, since “that’s the closest thing we have to the French Foreign Legion.”
Well, why not go the whole way? It’s easy enough to apply, and the French are still taking applications.
French Foreign Legion Requirements:
If this Domenech is half as capable as his supporters on RoteStadt (hee!) claim, that last part should be a breeze for him. And think of the tales he could tell of derring-do in the wilds of the Sahara!
stickler
Hoo, boy, and guess what you find when you poke around the French Embassy website about the history of the Foreign Legion:
Just think, Ben could become French by the blood he might be asked to spill!
Stormy70
A journalist held to a higher standard than a politician? No wonder you keep electing Teddy (D-Swimmer) and Byrd (D -KKK).
I would include Biden, but he only plagiarized, which seems small when compared to the sins of Kennedy or Byrd. But they are your senior Senators, of which you must be so proud.
MI
Kind of funny for people to bring up Kennedy and Byrd in the context of arguing that the statute of limitations has run on Ben Domenech.
I almost spit out my drink. Post of the day.
KC
Don’t really read Wonkette.
DougJ
Don’t worry, John, I’m sure there’s some form of wingnut welfare still available to this guy. Maybe he can be a staffer at the Foundation to Save Christmas or some such place.
It’s funny that the John Coles of the world mocked the people who were stranded in the Superdome in New Orleans but are quick to rush to the defense of Ben Domenech.
Tulkinghorn
Stormy-
put down your drink and listen up.
A journalist is held to a higher standard than a politician, no?
If has-Ben wants to run for office and be known as a liar and cheat, then good for him and bad for the poors saps in his district if he is elected to anything. I know Teddy K is all that, but I don’t vote for him based on his purported honesty. I vote for him because he drives people like you up the wall, which makes for excellent entertainment value.
But he should never be a journalist or pundit or in any profession where truthfulness is critical, just like Ben.
CaseyL
I’m curious enough to ask John, since he’s a friend of Ben’s, what is Ben doing now?
I thought it might be amusing if he was job hunting – esp. that part in the interview where they ask why you left your last job.
But then I remembered the guy still works for Regnery. Which publishes books… and Ben’s an editor there, working with writers.
A serial plagiarist… editing other peoples’ books. Wow.
I wonder if Doubleday, or Houghton Mifflin, or Harcourt, or any of another dozen book publishers, would let a serial plagiarist anywhere near their writers.
I wonder if any writers you could name would let a serial plagiarist anywhere near their manuscripts.
Somehow, I don’t think so.
Kind of funny that we haven’t heard anything about Ben being fired from Regnery.
Why is that, do you think?
Par R
Good old lying Steve came close to setting a new record with his comments here with at least three lies and/or intentionally misleading statements: https://balloon-juice.com/?p=6888#comment-149201
DougJ
Why are the Pars of the right comparing the Steve to Hitler?
Pb
John Cole,
This is pretty simple–it became her business–and everyone’s business–when Ben Domenech got into journalism and started lying. Why should Wonkette believe anything he says now, without checking it out? And it’s not like these are special rules that were suddenly created just for him–as everyone knows except for you, apparently, it can happen to anyone, from the President on down. If you don’t like it, then I’d love to hear your defense of all the other public figures who have endured this due to their actions. Or were they just not your friends.
p.lukasiak
Kind of funny that we haven’t heard anything about Ben being fired from Regnery.
OH dear. do keep up. the whole topic of this thread is about how BTB was fired from Regnery — but was fired before he got caught plagiarizing and all.
See, Wonkette did some investigatin’, and found out that Ben was actually fired from Regnery for being incompetent — although they publicly said that his Post column represented a conflict of interest or something…
demimondian
Back to the serious question: why should Wonkette get a pass for pulling a Lucianne about a second-rate loser from the WaPo? Because it looks like Regnery might have been covering for Domenech…and Regnery is certainly worth chasing, even if Plagiarist Boy Wonder isn’t any more.
One should pull on all the loose threads of the sweater when you’re looking to make it unravel. Domenech is not an interesting target — but as a lever against other interesting targets, he’s fair game now.
CaseyL
Oops, sorry: I didn’t check the link. I don’t read Wonkette since Cox left.
Apologies to Regnery. Whatever their stated reasons, the plagiarism had to’ve been weighing on their minds. Even though it’s a RW hack label, I’m glad to see they apparently do care about their writers.
p.lukasiak
If you don’t like it, then I’d love to hear your defense of all the other public figures who have endured this due to their actions.
what I’d like to hear is John’s explanation for attacks by the right on people (namely moi) who never did anything wrong — who never sought the spotlight, and who just happened to get caught up in a “big” story — and wound of being accused of all sorts of shit (like forging documents) with absolutely no basis in fact.
See, I was subjected to some of what Ben went through because after being repeatedly asked by Mary Mapes about other Bush documents that were rumored to exist, and knowing that someone had posted publicly on a blog saying they had knowledge about additional documents, I told Mapes about that allegation.
The good part is that I was scrupulous about everything I’d written about Bush and his military record, and thus the wingnuts couldn’t really touch me — but I still get crap about being the person who told CBS about what turned out to be the Killian memos….
I didn’t fuck up like Ben did….but I got trashed by the right. Ben fucked up, and got trashed by the left.
The left trashes people who deserve it — the right trash people who they disagree with.
Vlad
Unfortunately for Ben, I think the Wonkette piece is legitimate, since he has tried to put some of the student-paper plagiarism on the editorial staff of that paper. In that light, his own editorial work is worth a re-examination.
Stormy70
Teddy being elected is a gift wrapped to me every six years. Dude can’t even campaign with his fellow Democrats in most of the country. Bring up Teddy and watch them run for the exits trying to get away from his liberalism. Two words: Big Dig.
Of course, Ben’s no Dan Rather for the left, but if it helps you sleep at night, then I won’t stop the orgy of overkill.
Steve
Your first assignment, fans of useless comment pissing contests, is to find even a single lie and/or intentionally-misleading statement in the post Par linked.
The Left
Hey, I might be bitter, and I might be unhinged, but… what was the question again?
Andrew
Unstated reasons apparently include a rather exciting new job for neo-affirmative action hires: ghost editing.
Steve
Hey, Paul, at least you ended up better than Chuck Schumer, who rips off credit reports, and Al Franken, who steals money from little boys and girls. At least Robert Byrd actually did something bad, even if it was 50 years ago and he has repented infinitely more times than Jesse Helms.
But yeah, the same people who have ripped on Joe Biden for decades are suddenly all like “hey, don’t you liberals understand that a guy can make a mistake”… and the best part, then they go immediately back to ripping on Joe Biden!
Broken
Ben needs some piling on. He was also Regnery editor of Ramash’s new book:
The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts, and the Disregard for Human Life (Hardcover)
Only Regnery, publisher of Vincent Foster conspiracy theories and Ann Colter screechfests, would publish such sewage.
radish
Did we reach some sort of national consensus today that piling on, butting into someone’s professional career, and just plain run-of-the-mill assholishness is something to be frowned upon? Does this have something to do with Josh Bolten taking over for Andy Card? Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh having spontaneously combusted live on the air?
Man, just my luck. Finally decide that it’s okay to be an asshole, and blammo, the whole zeitgeist changes…
james richardson
Stormy,
Teddy is Teddy, always has been, and is not representative of the Left as a whole. He does however do quite a lot of campaigning for the more Liberal Democrats.
Ben is however, the left’s Dan Rather. Of course, Dan was merely more or less fired, whereas on the right we have Delay, Cunningham, Reed, Noe, Nay (and that doesn’t even touch upon the White House).
Bob In Pacifica
Ben…
Didn’t Michael Jackson sing a love song to him?
Richard Bottoms
John, get used to it.
We are through cutting anyone on the right any slack. It may seem like hearing a broken record, but it’s only disturbing because things have been going your way for so long.
Liberals are done bringing a knife to a gunfight. And if you think this is bad. Wait until we get back subpoena power.
We are going to rip you folks on the right (including the I’m a Liberterian now rats who’ve jumped ship) a big brand new asshole real soon now.
No sympathy. No mercy.
Maybe, just maybe, if you beg Max Cleland for forgiveness you might cexperience the slightest bit of empathy, but don’t count on it.
This is not anger, it’s not rage or unhinged spite.
It’s justice and it’s coming due.
marky
I agree with the commenter who referred to one of the four co-founders of RotStadt as a loser.
Bruce Moomaw
“What do you people want — the guy dead, for goodness sakes?”
We can start there. After all, he made it clear from the start that he felt the same way about all of us.
In that connection, note Rob Anderson’s piece last night on the New Republic website, agreeing with the paranoid theory that Domenech is such a repellant clunkhead that the Post just may have hired him to make conservatives look bad (the way the Wall Street Journal apparently used Alexander Cockburn for that purpose against leftists):
“Before signing on with the Post, Domenech had written for publications like the New York Press, National Review Online, and The Washington Times. He was not known for producing thoughtful conservative think-pieces, or even for intrepid reporting. On the contrary, he was better known for his vitriol. Domenech, in his RedState.com blog posts, wrote that Teresa Heinz Kerry looks like an ‘oddly shaped egotistical ketchup-colored muppet,’ former TNR Editor Andrew Sullivan needs ‘a woman to give him some stability,’ and cartoonist Ted Rall is a ‘steaming bag of pus.’ [Note from Moomaw: my own feeling is that the latter statement is strictly diamond cut diamond.] He used words like ‘environuts.’ His posts often began with profound statements such as ‘That’s ridiculous,’ ‘Yeesh, that’s sad,’ and ‘That’s bullcrap.’ He accused Los Angeles Times columnist Joel Stein of using cocaine. He described Coretta Scott King as a ‘Communist.’ He wrote that federal judges are ‘worse than the KKK.’
“What, exactly, did [Ben] Brady see in Domenech? Certainly not a principled conservative journalist. Either Brady didn’t read Domenech’s blog posts, or he did, and they fit the ticket. If the former is true, well, shame on Brady. But the latter seems more likely. In other words, as far as Brady was concerned, Domenech–an angry, bigoted bloviator–was the face of true conservatism.”
Broken
This attitude from some on the left is, quite frankly, stupid. It is like beating up on a reformed alcoholic because they used to drink.
Many conservatives have thrown in the towel because the finally see that this administration is not conservative but radical and incompetent. You are not exactly winning them over by heaping on abuse.
p.lukasiak
they are still gonna vote republican…. in other words, they will still be scum, or at least scum-enablers…
DougJ
Because if there’s one thing the Rove era has taught us, it’s that civility counts.
What fucking planet have been living on for the past 5 years, Broken? Politics is about making your opponent your bitch. Look at all the people in the media who feel bad when they’re accused of being called a traitor by the chickenhawks of the Bush administration. Karl Rove has made them his bitches. If someone calls you a traitor, you should punch him.
The Other Steve
I keep thinking about how fair the right was to Dan Rather all those years, and it does give me pause.
BTW, I don’t know about bitter but man that Stormy sure has gone unhinged.
ppGaz
Heh. Heh heh. Stormy has a teddy.
ppGaz
Hey, you are Fuckin-A right, man.
Fuckin-A.
DougJ
Steve, Republicans win elections because they’re fair to people like Dan Rather. Voters respect that.
p.lukasiak
Heh. Heh heh. Stormy has a teddy.
….and people wonder why I’m gay….
ppGaz
I did, and now I’m banned from Safeway.
Turns out the poor cashier just said “See you later.”
Luckily they didn’t press charges.
DougJ
It’s not your fault: You received bad intelligence. And I assume that you have had it to do over again, knowing what you know now, you’d still have hit the cashier. Not to have hit the cashier would have made you look weak.
ppGaz
Who are we talking about here? The Gingrich Contract On America crowd?
Yeah, “winning them over” is our goal.
The old Goldwater crowd? Dead.
The newer Goldwater crowd (John Cole)? If they don’t have enough sense to vote these pseudo-conservatives out on their asses, then fuck ’em. Seriously, how stupid can they be? Who are they gonna vote for? Frist?
Richard Bottoms
Fuck. Them.
We don’t want their votes. We don’t need their votes.
All we need are the 2% back. The Democrats who got suckered because of 9/11, the real independents, and the moderates.
The conservatives however, can all kiss my shiny metal ass.
Karl Rove proved it’s a 2% nation. Tought titty if you want to complain about it now.
ppGaz
Yeah, but we love bringing fire suppression foam to a pie fight.
srv
Hmm. From Riverbend, states this is what the Sharqiya channel in Baghdad is broadcasting:
link
Damn liberal Iraqi media.
ppGaz
What he said, except that I don’t get the metal thing, but anyway ….
Yes, to hell with them. They sold their soul to Satan’s evil twin, and they can go screw themselves. The have what they deserve, trailer trash and some guy who pissed away a ton of Saudi money on a failed oil business now running their country. Well, shit happens.
Ancient Purple
Would this be the right time to mention a prison shower scene?
p.lukasiak
Would this be the right time to mention a prison shower scene?
geez, do we have to bring Andrew Sullivan into every discussion?
Vladi G
You go to Safeway with the shopping list you have, not the shopping list you wish you had.
Unless you’re one of the Vladi Gs of the left, of course.
fwiffo
I was going to agree with John and say the piling on was unnecessary and mean-spirited. I’m not so sure anymore. The guy tried to shift blame, make excuses and even after being caught red handed couldn’t even muster up a real apology. The guy is a hypocrite, bully, liar and asshole. Abuse is the only form of communication creeps like him seem to understand.
He is only human, and I try to be a generous and forgiving person, but I’m sure having a tough time trying to muster any sort sympathy for the guy.
Oh, you must feel so clever. Just like the Right’s heros, Bush, Hannity, DeLay, Cunningham, Falwell, Cornyn, McCain, Dobson, Milosevic, Mussolini. Gee, this is a fun game. Oh wait, it’s fucking retarded.
I really gotta wonder, are there even two actual serious people on the right? In the whole country?
ppGaz
Exactly. Like George Bush, I don’t mind being weak, but I sure as fucking HELL don’t like to look weak.
Steve
By the way, I love how you guys assume the Democrats, the same guys who won’t even sign on to a meaningless censure resolution, will suddenly become pit bulls if you give them the subpoena power. If only.
Broken
Who are we talking about here? The Gingrich Contract On America crowd?
You guys are WAY underestimating how tough it’s going to be to take back Congress. 5 years of this nonsense and the number of voters not calling themselves Repubs has dropped only 3.5%.
So if some Libertarian says he’s finally sick and tired of Bush, you are being a real idiot to kick him/her right back into the Bush camp. There are so many Zombies on the Right it is a GOOD THING when one of them comes out of his trance and really sees what’s going on.
Broken
Opps, the first sentence above should be part of the block.
In any case, the Dems aren’t taking Congress without winning the middle. So don’t beat up on folks who just moved from right to middle.
Don’t hurt your own cause.
Richard Bottoms
Just because I have zero sympathy for John’s perdicament doesn’t mean I don’t understand it. I do.
I think of it this way:
(Us versus the Republicans January 2001)
(Fast forward six years)
(Welcome to election 2006)
BTW, thanks to you & Google.
I actually lost track of this site and couldn’t think of the URL to save my life.
ppGaz
Not me. With solid gerrymandering and protected districts, there are barely enough districts in play to get the House. The Senate is also tough.
In national elections, it’s the two candidates that count. Numbers now mean nothing until there are two faces on the tv. At that point, anything can happen.
DougJ
What’s the alternative? Happily embrace their Bush apologism and tell them it’s okay? I refuse to subject libertarians to the soft bigotry of lowered expectations. Don’t expect me to pat you on the back for pulling your head only halfway out of your ass.
Richard Bottoms
Sorry, you statement itself is the reason I have no use for most of the new “converts”. basically 2300 dead, 17,000 wounded, $500,000,000,000 wasted to fight Iran’s war with Iraq for them.
And if that wasn’t enough, more debt then in all human history, torture, illegal gulags, billions in give aways to the rich, Teri Schiavo and the South Dakota abortion outrage.
And you’re telling me all that it will take for these so-called converts to run crying back to the Republican party is me saying mean things about them?
Fuck them.
We aren’t buying that sucker game again.
Steve
I think you will find that that statistic measures the difference in party ID since the 2004 election.
Broken
No, I’m not talking about the Bush apologists, I’m talking about the folks who are waking up to the encroachment on the Constitution, the budget disaster, the shit job situation, the mysterious voting machines, and the destruction of sensible foreign policy. Yeah, some folks only got their head halfway out their ass, but don’t shove it back in for them.
There’s plenty of room in the tent for those who are sick of this President. Dems are supposed to be about diversity. Save you fire for the real assholes.
Broken
I can’t find the link and maybe you are right. As I recall, the shift toward the Dems was most pronounced amoung moderates.
Don’t get too excited, though. The Repugs are raising an unholy amount of cash. And a hell of a lot of it from organizations with sweet-deal gov contracts. Yep, “this political ad brought to you with tax-payer money”.
Ancient Purple
I will be more than happy to welcome them into our tent. But please excuse me for keeping one eye on them at all times.
I am willing to bet that the next time OBL shows up on a tape threatening to blow up Metropolis or the Terrorist Alert level is raised to orange, some of them will be running as fast as they can to lick Bush’s ass clean so that he can protect them from the Big Bad Wolf.
Where have these people been anyway? As you said, Constitutional abuse, astronomical budget deficits, crappy wages, black box voting, hated the world over, and ports and chemical plants that are ripe for attack and these people are just NOW??? seeing what is really going on?
I won’t say it to their faces, but I will reserve the right to think they are either cowards or just ignorant fuckwads.
The Other Steve
I’m at two frames on this one.
On the one hand, I agree.
On the other hand, the strategy of identity politics the Republicans have used since Nixon cuts both ways. The Republican party has been radical and incompetent since Reagan, so you can’t really say these guys are very bright if it’s taken them 15 years to recognize that.
So what is so wrong if they just stay home and don’t vote?
The Other Steve
I’ll call them cowards to their face. Honestly, anybody who voted for Bush in 2004 is a coward.
This point struck me back in 2004 when I was waiting in line to see John Kerry speak. The security was tremendous, more than I’d ever seen before. The guy next to me, an old grizzled Korean war vet was griping about it, that it was taking so long to get through the line. I said something about people just wanting to be careful.
He went off on a tirade about the cowardice of our nation.
At the time I just remember thinking he really had a good point.
Chum
You guys are WAY underestimating how tough it’s going to be to take back Congress.
Bugger it. I’m buyin shares in Deibold. I’ve got a plan
wondering
I find it fscinating how people like Limbauh and you get so sensitive and hurt when someone starts acting like you do. I guess it’s the sign of a bully. The thing is the thugs are coming for you and the really mean ones are not from the left.
A lot of them are from the military and they seem to be deciding the diplimatic words of the past are not working. You’;ve ignored Zinni, Odom, Lang and dozens of others, pretended all critics are terrorist lovers. But calling guys like this is backfiring. Be prepared to get smashed for a while.
unched: 03/26/2006 12:06 AM PST
‘Unit’s’ military expert has fighting words for Bush
By David Kronke, TV Critic
Eric Haney, a retired command sergeant major of the U.S. Army, was a founding member of Delta Force, the military’s elite covert counter-terrorist unit. He culled his experiences for “Inside Delta Force” (Delta; $14), a memoir rich with harrowing stories, though in an interview, Haney declines with a shrug to estimate the number of times he was almost killed. (Perhaps the most high-profile incident that almost claimed his life was the 1980 failed rescue of the hostages in Iran.) Today, he’s doing nothing nearly as dangerous: He serves as an executive producer and technical adviser for “The Unit,” CBS’ new hit drama based on his book, developed by playwright David Mamet. Even up against “American Idol,” “The Unit” shows muscle, drawing 18 million viewers in its first two airings.
Since he has devoted his life to protecting his country in some of the world’s most dangerous hot spots, you might assume Haney is sympathetic to the Bush administration’s current plight in Iraq (the laudatory cover blurb on his book comes from none other than Fox’s News’ Bill O’Reilly). But he’s also someone with close ties to the Pentagon, so he’s privy to information denied the rest of us.
We recently spoke to Haney, an amiable, soft-spoken Southern gentleman, on the set of “The Unit.”
Q: What’s your assessment of the war in Iraq?
A: Utter debacle. But it had to be from the very first. The reasons were wrong. The reasons of this administration for taking this nation to war were not what they stated. (Army Gen.) Tommy Franks was brow-beaten and … pursued warfare that he knew strategically was wrong in the long term. That’s why he retired immediately afterward. His own staff could tell him what was going to happen afterward.
We have fomented civil war in Iraq. We have probably fomented internecine war in the Muslim world between the Shias and the Sunnis, and I think Bush may well have started the third world war, all for their own personal policies.
Q: What is the cost to our country?
A: For the first thing, our credibility is utterly zero. So we destroyed whatever credibility we had. … And I say “we,” because the American public went along with this. They voted for a second Bush administration out of fear, so fear is what they’re going to have from now on.
Our military is completely consumed, so were there a real threat – thankfully, there is no real threat to the U.S. in the world, but were there one, we couldn’t confront it. Right now, that may not be a bad thing, because that keeps Bush from trying something with Iran or with Venezuela.
The harm that has been done is irreparable. There are more than 2,000 American kids that have been killed. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed ñ which no one in the U.S. really cares about those people, do they? I never hear anybody lament that fact. It has been a horror, and this administration has worked overtime to divert the American public’s attention from it. Their lies are coming home to roost now, and it’s gonna fall apart. But somebody’s gonna have to clear up the aftermath and the harm that it’s done just to what America stands for. It may be two or three generations in repairing.
Q: What do you make of the torture debate? Cheney …
A: (Interrupting) That’s Cheney’s pursuit. The only reason anyone tortures is because they like to do it. It’s about vengeance, it’s about revenge, or it’s about cover-up. You don’t gain intelligence that way. Everyone in the world knows that. It’s worse than small-minded, and look what it does.
I’ve argued this on Bill O’Reilly and other Fox News shows. I ask, who would you want to pay to be a torturer? Do you want someone that the American public pays to torture? He’s an employee of yours. It’s worse than ridiculous. It’s criminal; it’s utterly criminal. This administration has been masters of diverting attention away from real issues and debating the silly. Debating what constitutes torture: Mistreatment of helpless people in your power is torture, period. And (I’m saying this as) a man who has been involved in the most pointed of our activities. I know it, and all of my mates know it. You don’t do it. It’s an act of cowardice. I hear apologists for torture say, “Well, they do it to us.” Which is a ludicrous argument. … The Saddam Husseins of the world are not our teachers. Christ almighty, we wrote a Constitution saying what’s legal and what we believed in. Now we’re going to throw it away.
Q: As someone who repeatedly put your life on the line, did some of the most hair-raising things to protect your country, and to see your country behave this way, that must be …
A: It’s pretty galling. But ultimately I believe in the good and the decency of the American people, and they’re starting to see what’s happening and the lies that have been told. We’re seeing this current house of cards start to flutter away. The American people come around. They always do.
Kimmitt
No, I want his career destroyed. I want his lying, plagiarizing, racist, entitled ass out of the national discourse.
Kimmitt
Enh, if it’s not out now, it’s not going to be. Rove’s made that extremely clear.
Sirkowski
Strike your enemy when he’s down.
– Sun Tzu
Richard Bottoms
You’re goddamed right.
SomeGuy
Threats and curses and vendettas – oh my!
This site is getting a tad Kos-ish in the comment threads.
Keep hating, though – hate is a powerful emotion. Its not a political strategy, but at least you feel alive!
By the way, the NSA program is legal, says a panel of five former FISA judges yesterday in testimony at the Donk-demanded hearing. How’s that crow taste?
Slide
Well, I think that settles it. John, you got your answer. Yes, the left wants your little butt buddy dead and buried (politically speaking). Next question?
Nikki
This has to be one of the most interesting threads I’ve ever read.
Brian Palmer
Considering that on the front page of Wonkette, there’s posts delving into Media Matters for America’s ongoing janitor/men’s bathroom disputes… do you think Wonkette won’t be satisfied until Media Matters is dead?
RonB
I dunno, but I wanna do a few things to Wonkette…
Davebo
Me thinks John is still a little peaved about not taking my advice and buying Halliburton stock on 2003.
Oh well.
We’ll call it swallowers remorse
Blue Neponset
Someone is being a bit dramatic.
The only people I want dead are Dean Wormer, Greg Marmelard and Douglass Niedrmeyer. Not necessarily in that order, but dead none the less.
Stormy70
Unless your enemy is Al Qaeda, then the Democratic Party’s plan is to lawyer them up and offer them citizenship rights under the US Constitution.
I didn’t realize that random righty bloggers were actual enemies, to be “killed” off politically. I could never trust the Left to protect against terrorim, they are too busy searching out ways to bring down the real enemy of America: anyone who disagrees with their groupthink.
Ancient Purple
Care to remind me which prison is currently holding OBL?
Jim Allen
Which would still be more than has been accomplished by an entire government under Repbublican control.
At least if they were US citizens, the Bush Administration would have a plan to keep track of them.
Bob In Pacifica
Stormy, don’t you want closure with Ted Kennedy? I mean, I’m so done with Ben now and it’s been a couple of days. We’re closing in on forty years here.
Davebo
Cut it out Dougj.
It was cute at first, but you’ve gone way overboard.
No one is this idiotic.
Pb
I suppose I should mention that there doubtless were some crazy people who actually wanted Clinton dead. Then again, they also thought he was some kind of shadowy serial killer.
rachel
XD
The Republican’s plan is much better: Leave off chasing bin Laden and instead send our troops to attack somebody who hadn’t (and couldn’t) attack us, and then kick all the Latino and Chinese laborers back to where they came from. That’ll sure show Al Qaeda who’s boss.
zzyzx
Hey I’ll lay off this guy when the right stops attacking Michael Schiavo. I’m sure that’ll happen any day now.
The guy likes to attack. If that’s your argumentative style, you don’t get a free pass.
Mr Furious
Unless your enemy is Al Qaeda, then the Republican Administration’s plan is to sit idly by as they are warned against imminent threats, let the homeland suffer the worse attack in decades, then chase the culprits to the county line and let them escape unencumbered. Follow that up by attacking the wrong country and inspiring countless legions of new Al Qaeda recruits and a training ground with plenty of live targets to boot.
Shut the fuck up, Stormy.
ppGaz
Yet another spoof?
I need a scorecard.
Bob In Pacifica
Just as long as this doesn’t stand in the way of Barry Bonds setting the all-time career home run record and leading the Giants to the World Series.
I’m sorry, are we still talking about this Ben guy?
Cherub
Richard, that is the best fucking post in this whole thread. Amen.
SoCalJustice
He used fraudulent means to advance himself and his political agenda in such a successful manner that it landed him paid spot for one of the most influential media outlets on the planet – a spot that lasted all of 4 1/2 days because of those same fraudulent means.
His (relatively) meteoric rise, and incredibly meteoric downfall, is news. As is any additional fallout from his past deceptions and his disengenousness and evasiveness upon being caught. It’s good that he finally admitted the truth, but not before taking a few stupid swipes at those who uncovered his plagiarism.
The Other Steve
Good news out of Iraq:
Jill Carroll has been released!
ppGaz
I think it might be Stormy’s evil twin, CrackWhore.
Ancient Purple
Any bets on how long it will be before the wingers start calling her a “traitor” or that the U.S. would have been better off if she had been killed?
dedgeorge
“…is anything more than piling on, butting into someone’s professional career, and just plain run-of-the-mill assholishness, I am all ears….”
Whine, WHINE, WHINE!!!!
Seems as though you have a bad case of “Situationalist Ethicatis”
fwiffo
I’m having a real hard time keeping the spoofs straight from the real cranks. Can I get a show of hands to know who I should be yelling at?
Except they didn’t say any such thing. Imaginary crow is quite tasty but not very filling.
Stormy70
Max lost because he was siding with the liberal Democrats, and GA was trending Republican. Sour Grapes from a candidate who ran a crappy campaign.
SeesThroughIt
Man, the president as a shadowy serial killer. That would make an awesome crime drama or, with slightly different framing and music, a wacky sitcom.
marky
Some deluded souls think that John Cole might come in the Democrats tent. Are you fucking kidding me?
Do you see any less unfocused, gibbering vitriol directed at the Democrats now than before? I don’t think so.
There are two ways John Cole can help rid the country of Bush: He can vote Dem, or he can stay home.
He sure as hell isn’t going to do the first, no matter what any liberal says, and I doubt he will do the second.
Pb
SeesThroughIt,
Maybe we can get some sort of political drama going:
Something like that, maybe.
Larry
Nah, waste of powder.
Wouldn’t mind reading Coulter’s obit though.
Mac Buckets
But EvilGOPcorp® once mentioned Max and Saddam in the same sentence. IN THE SAME SENTENCE! I hate them so much!
Steve
Mac is apparently a charter member of the “Jeff Goldstein is witty” camp.
Harry Whittington
Heh. Republicans would NEVAH pile on like that. Just ask Hillary Clinton. Or Al Gore. Or John Kerry. Or Bill Clinton. Or Jimmy Carter. Or Michael Moore. The list goes on…
Just more Feigned Republican Outrage. What John (and the rest of the Republican dead-enders) don’t realize is that the American people are pretty fed up with your phony pissiness. At this point, you only make yourself look silly and irrelevant.
Steve
Well, Ben Domenech has stopped plagiarizing, but Michael Moore is STILL FAT.
ImJohnGalt
That depends, did she make sure to thank her rescuers in a press release even before she was taken for medical treatment and a debriefing? If she didn’t, she’s toast.
tzs
John, the reason I think Ben deserves all the skewering he is getting is for the following reasons:
1) He plagiarized. Repeatedly. Over a period of years.
2) When everything started to hit the fan, he denied, lied (sure he had permission), accused the editors he had worked with of being responsible. He stood back and let all his friends beat the drum for him, saying what a Wonderful Young Man he was and how Moral and Upright he was (wonder what Ben’s dad thinks of his full-throated support of his son now?)
3) When the evidence really started to pile up and Ben had his back to the wall and there was absolutely no place to go, out came a weaseling mutter of apology half under the breath, coupled with a complaint that the WP should have realized that he, Ben, was going to be attacked by those horrible, nasty liberals.
This is evidence of those fine and wonderful morals your side of the aisle is always so happy to tout as demonstrating? I see no evidence that Ben–or his followers–have any understanding about why plagiarism is a Bad Thing. I see no evidence that Ben came out with his apology because he realized he had stolen other people’s property, accused other people in an attempt to cover up his own crimes (what’s that thing about bearing false witness? Yeah, I thought so) and hung his own friends and family out to dry as total chumps defending him. I see him grudgingly come out with an insincere “apology” because he was caught so completely red-handed there was no way to continue the game. I see no evidence whatsoever he honestly believes “Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.” I see an arrogant young man who, frankly, thought it was his perfect right to abscond with other people’s work and push it out under his own name.
DougJ
I can’t embed links here, but if you go to Free Republic and search for Jill Carroll, you’ll find this
Her interpreter was killed. While she claims that she was kept in “Club Jihad” type conditions her companion was murdered. Is she an accomplice after the fact?
2 posted on 03/30/2006 9:40:23 AM PST by Mike Darancette
Kimmitt
tzs:
Domenech has, in fact, posted a full mea culpa over at RedState. One of the cofounders, Krempasky, posted a much more weaselly antileft screed disguised as an apology shortly thereafter.
Which is to say that after being battered for a few days, Domenech is apparently just barely capable of displaying fifteen minutes of class, while Krempasky is not. Since there is no way that Domenech is able to display the ongoing class necessary to choose a different line of work, and since Domenech is not an exception to the winger talent rule but rather its exemplar, we’re going to keep piling on.
Perry Como
A (big L) Libertarian wouldn’t have voted for Bush. They have their own party. A (small l) libertarian would not have voted for Bush in 2004. It’s obvious Bush is a statist that likes big government and dislikes individual rights. Bush is the polar opposite of libertarianism.
Par R
DougJ- He really wishes that you would stop using his address.
Geek, Esq.
I’m waiting for his personal web posting where he brags about being “8 inches uncut.”
Bruce Moomaw
SomeGuy: “By the way, the NSA program is legal, says a panel of five former FISA judges yesterday in testimony at the Donk-demanded hearing. How’s that crow taste?”
SomeGuy don’t read so good. (One might, indeed, call him “bird-brained”.) Let us quote what the FISA judges actually told Congress that day day, as reported by the NY Times:
“Five former judges on the nation’s most secretive court, including one who resigned in apparent protest over President Bush’s domestic eavesdropping, urged Congress on Tuesday to give the court a formal role in overseeing the surveillance program.
“In a rare glimpse into the inner workings of the secretive court, known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, several former judges who served on the panel also voiced skepticism at a Senate hearing about the president’s constitutional authority to order wiretapping on Americans without a court order. They also suggested that the program could imperil criminal prosecutions that grew out of the wiretaps.
“Judge Harold A. Baker, a sitting federal judge in Illinois who served on the intelligence court until last year, said the president was bound by the law ‘like everyone else.’ If a law like the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is duly enacted by Congress and considered constitutional, Judge Baker said, ‘the president ignores it at the president’s peril.’
“Judge Baker and three other judges who served on the intelligence court testified at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in support of a proposal by Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, to give the court formal oversight of the National Security Agency’s eavesdropping program. Committee members also heard parts of a letter in support of the proposal from a fifth judge, James Robertson, who left the court last December, days after the eavesdropping program was disclosed…
“Judge Robertson made clear that he believed the FISA court should review the surveillance program. ‘Seeking judicial approval for government activities that implicate constitutional protections is, of course, the American way,’ he wrote…
“He did not weigh in on the ultimate question of whether he considered the N.S.A. program illegal. The judges at the committee hearing avoided that politically charged issue despite persistent questioning from Democrats, even as the judges raised concerns about how the program was put into effect.
“Judge Baker said he felt most comfortable talking about possible changes to strengthen the foreign intelligence law. ‘Whether something’s legal or illegal goes beyond that,’ he said, ‘and that’s why I’m shying away from answering that.’ ”
“
flaime
As long as Ben thinks he is goign to pursue a career related to writing or journalism, the piling on should continue. He is as tainted as Blair or Glass, and deserve no less until he turns away from harming the profession he claims to honor.