Read this piece on Jose Padilla. Key bits:
Inside the Bush administration, the question was what to do now. Top Justice Department officials warned that if the case went back to the Supreme Court, the administration would almost certainly lose. But according to knowledgeable sources, key players in the Defense Department and in Vice President Cheney’s office insisted that the power to detain Americans as enemy combatants had to be preserved. So the administration went back to the lower courts to defend Padilla’s detention. By now, though, all mention of a dirty bomb had been removed from the matter, with the government instead contending that Padilla had been part of a plot to blow up apartment houses.
***The very conservative judge who had written the appeals court opinion upholding Padilla’s enemy combatant status, Judge Michael Luttig, exploded in written rage, refusing to transfer the case to the civilian courts. Luttig accused the Bush administration of a legal shell game that had the “appearance” of “avoiding review by the Supreme Court.”
***The prosecution faces major problems in the trial. The defense has asked the judge to throw the entire case out, asserting that the government’s treatment of Padilla has been “so outrageous as to shock the conscience.”
According to court papers filed by Padilla’s lawyers, for the first two years of his confinement, Padilla was held in total isolation. He heard no voice except his interrogator’s. His 9-by-7 foot cell had nothing in it: no window even to the corridor, no clock or watch to orient him in time.
Padilla’s meals were delivered through a slot in the door. He was either in bright light for days on end or in total darkness. He had no mattress or pillow on his steel pallet; loud noises interrupted his attempts to sleep.
Sometimes it was very cold, sometimes hot. He had nothing to read or to look at. Even a mirror was taken away. When he was transported, he was blindfolded and his ears were covered with headphones to screen out all sound. In short, Padilla experienced total sensory deprivation.
During length interrogations, his lawyers allege, Padilla was forced to sit or stand for long periods in stress positions. They say he was hooded and threatened with death. The isolation was so extreme that, according to court papers, even military personnel at the prison expressed great concern about Padilla’s mental status.
The government maintains that whatever happened to Padilla during his detention is irrelevant, since no information obtained during that time is being used in the criminal case against him.
They tortured him until he was incompetent to stand trial, and then state it doesn’t matter because they aren’t going to sue any of the information they gleaned while torturing him against him. Not that there is anything to really charge him with, as the wiretapping also turned up no information.
Why?
Because they can. Because all they have to do is call him a threat, and then they can lock him up and do whatever the hell they want to him for years and years- because no one in the Republican party or in this administration gives two flying shits. There is a war on terror to fight and elections to win, so process, legal tradition, individual rights, and the Constitution be damned.
Citizenship doesn’t mean what it used to.
Bob In Pacifica
It’s respondiat superior.
Georgy Bush is a psychopath. He tortured little animals as a child. He branded fraternity pledges. He is a sick man, who through his life of privilege, was moved step by step through an ascension to the most powerful position in the world without anyone seriously examining his constellation of psychological damage.
What our secret police do they do at his behest.
That’s how you get a sadist as President. He probably beats off watching the video of Saddam swinging in the air.
ThymeZone
While all too true, this must be nominated as Unfortunate Word Picture of the Day.
Mr Furious
Fucking outrageous. That would be fucking outrageous even if Padilla was actually caught red-handed or could reasonably be assumed guilty. but the fact that every aspect of this case has turned out to be complete bullshit and that Padilla is in all likelihood innocent of all the serious charges against him sends me through the roof.
They have quite literally punished this U.S. citizen with a life sentence of mental illness and PTSD for polical gain and nothing else.
What I wouldn’t give for Bush to experience the same treatment.
There is no level of Hell harsh enough for these motherfuckers.
Edmund Dantes
It’s amazing though how something that profound and disturbing appears to be a throwaway two sentence paragraph. The implications of that small little paragraph are bone-chilling.
If you want to talk impeachable offenses, there it is, but this goes beyond just the President. This goes to the nature of this country, and I’m frightened from what I see.
ThymeZone
This is the asshole who kept saying that a “timetable for withdrawal” gave too much information to “the enemy?” So now we are spending two weeks floating timetables and numbers out to the punditocracy and taking the temperature of the US population …. giving the distinct impression that Bush is looking for political cover.
And this is what they are calling a “strategy?” A ten or fifteen percent bump in troop levels is a “new strategy?” Requiring two months of meetings and photo ops?
At what point do we just give up on these amazingly inept assholes and just march on Washington? If the Dems don’t flay these shitheads, then the people should just rise up and run them out of town.
Victory? Winning? They’re just fucking with us at this point. I think they’re laughing at us.
Pb
Excellent post, John. Of course, it has been a huge outrage, from the start, but I think the last line of that article really says it all (emphasis mine):
They have no decency, and no shame.
Zifnab
I imagine he’d have been treated a fair site better had he actually committed a crime. But because he had nothing to actually confess, and the interogators weren’t supposed to stop beating him till they found something to charge him with, he got the extended treatment.
Exhibit A: Jose Padilla – poster child for why torture doesn’t work.
Steve
I wonder how many people saw this?
Just as with the Padilla case, it requires a lot of moral emptiness to be on the administration’s side on these issues. Then again, I’m not sure if you can have a lot of emptiness.
Krista
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. The hell with impeachment — that bastard should be in prison.
Zifnab
That’s one other thing that really chaps my ass.
You’ve got the right-wing punditocracy out back crying foul at the idea that non-US Citizens should be treated with the same rights and respects a US Citizen is expected to receive. The Bill of Rights shouldn’t apply to illegal immigrants. Suspected terrorists aren’t protected by the Geneva Conventions because they aren’t members of a qualified nation/government. Human rights violations don’t happen if they happen in designated countries or gulags.
Nationalism, it’s the new racism. Being born in America suddenly means God loves you just a little bit more and taking jumper cables to your nipples isn’t as on the table as it used to be.
Jose Padilla comes as a worse shock than Abu Garab because Padilla is American and that just makes him more super special. Gitmo wasn’t so bad because at least they weren’t US Citizens. What a load of shit. What a horrible country we’ve become.
Teak111
What kills me is some prosecutor representing the Fed is gonna get up in front of a jury and dodge and weave his way to convict this poor slob on trumped up criminal charges. What kinda of lawyer would do that? An ambitious one I guess.
Walker
Even money says this never goes to a jury. With all I have read there is no way he is mentally competent to stand trial.
Steve
There is virtually no chance Padilla ever goes to trial. The Feds would end up looking worse than the Duke prosecutor.
By the way, isn’t it awesome how so many people that get all worked up over the Duke case could give two shits about Padilla? And I don’t mean because the Duke case has gotten more publicity, I mean for reasons of pure partisanship. If George Bush had thrown the Duke lacrosse team into Gitmo those same people would regard them as terrorists to this day.
Jake
Rather than echo what everyone else has said:
Irony du jour: Bush creates “Activist Judges.”
The judicial branch is probably more pissed off that any Democratic legislator you care to name and has been for a long time. And at this level we’re talking about life-time tenure so they could give a fuck about what the public thinks. The Bush Admin’s approach to ruling: “Because we can” has made a pair of pincers out of Judicial and the Legislative branches of the government and guess whose nuts are clamped in between?
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Yeah, since when is it a crime to go to Al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan to train to kill Americans? When joining the enemy becomes a crime, haven’t the terrorists already won?
Jose Padilla al-Muhajir is a hero! A hero, I tell you! Free him and Tookie!
Zifnab
That’s funny, cause I didn’t see “went to Afganistan to give bin Laden blowjobs” among the charges. But you’re right E3L. Padilla deserves to be tortured to insanity because of… something. Cause if allegedly going to Afganistan isn’t a crime, I just don’t feel safe anymore.
James F. Elliott
Too bad that wasn’t what he was accused of when he was originally detained and tortured, pal. How can you even stand there and with a straight face gloss over the simple fact that the government drove a man legally insane by torturing him and then turns around and claims that he’s too incompetent to testify as to his treatment?
That you can is an indication of mental illness.
Gold Star for Robot Boy
So, no mention of the dirty bomb plot that wasn’t? Apparently, you’re cool with the government lying right to your face.
Zifnab
Maybe he is (they are?) a victim of Stockholm Syndrome.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
What he deserves is what every terrorist who trains to murder innocent civilians deserves — two to the brainpan. But alas, it’s not a perfect world. “Stress positions” is way too light for this waste of carbon.
Steve
Of course, we “know” Padilla trained as a terrorist because the same government that lied about him being a dirty bomber tells us so.
To these idiots, everything the government says is true, and when we elect a Democratic President again, everything the government says will be false. Better adversaries, please.
jh
If it’s a crime, allow him to see the evidence against him and give him a speedy trial before a jury of his peers.
As an American, he is entitled to that much due process you fancy, fascist f***head.
Look everyone. Another armchair Jack Bauer who thinks America’s hard won principles are for sissies.
E.E.E.L.,
And you are certain of his guilt because of what again? . Here in America, we believe in things like ‘the rule of law’, ‘innocent until proven guilty’, and no ‘cruel and unusual punishments’.
We even took the trouble to encode these principles into law.
Jonathan
America now has no leg to stand on when American citizens are captured and tortured in other countries. All the other countries have to do is point at the treatment that America considers just and righteous for it’s own citizens.
Indefinite detention without trial. OK
Torture. OK
Official lying about the above. OK
Here’s the really sick part of all this.
As you can see from above, it is the most devout Christians who most strongly support Bush and his merry band of torturers.
The fundamentalist Christians are really and truly no better than fundamentalist Muslims. I’ve believed this for a long time and now we have undeniable proof.
These people may constantly read their Bibles but they have not the slightest clue what the words really mean.
And people wonder why atheists think that many theists are self delusional freaks.
mrmobi
I was over at TPM earlier and saw this, which I think is appropriate to this thread. Lambchop, I believe you are the “base” he refers to. You would probably have been very content in Stalin’s Russia. Why do you stay here if you don’t believe in democracy? There must be some country which welcomes sociopaths, no?
Anyway, here it is.
Emphasis mine. Lambchop, you and your ilk must be driven from power and made an unfortunate footnote in American history. Your murderous philosophy, shared by our President, is as un-American as it is immoral.
I fart in your general direction.
AkaDad
Krista Says:
This needed to be repeated.
Jonathan
Anyone wanna bet that Lambchop considers itself a devout Christian?
Sojourner
Yikes! I missed the trial. Can someone fill me in on when the Padilla trial happened and what he was convicted of?
Jake
Oh pshaw! According to Madame Eeel, we don’t bother with that nancy pants stuff no more. All you have to do is say someone is a terrorist and voila! They are a terrorist. You see, terrorist is not a legal term any more, it is a majikal term. Apply it to anyone you like and you can screw them anyway you want!
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Is anyone here questioning that Padilla went to Al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan?
Stand up and be counted. I want to see how ignorant/BDS you guys really are.
Sojourner
Sad but true. That sound you hear is our forefathers spinning in their graves. Can’t you hear them saying “And we put our lives on the line to create a free country for these assholes?”
Sojourner
Are you questioning our claim that Padilla never received the trial to which he is entitled as an AMERICAN CITIZEN?????????
SeesThroughIt
For many people, it’s not “suddenly” at all–it has always been that way. I saw on some sitcom a wisecrack about how “America is where God actually pays attention.” It was meant to be a little joke; some people, unfortunately, take that idea very seriously. Even more unfortunately, those people are presently called the executive branch of the federal government.
I didn’t think Lambchop was a troll when he/she/it first showed up. Now I’m not so sure.
RSA
‘No!’ said the Queen. ‘First the sentence and then the evidence!’
Anne
Innocent until proven guilty. So a solid no from me as well.
Jake
Wait a minute. I thought the leftie demoncRAT tree huggers were supposed to be the communist scumbags. Eeel is confusing me!
Anne
Fixed
Ryan S.
No, but that is NOT illegal.
jh
No EEEL, we are questioning when Mr. Padilla will be put on trial and allowed to mount a defense against the charges against him.
If the government has airtight evidence that Mr. Padilla has broken the law, it should be willing to submit to the judicial process that is afforded to ALL AMERICANS.
If you don’t like all these pansy legal pressedures ‘n stuff, perhaps you would feel more comfortable living in Uzbekistan, Syria or any of the other nations that torture their own citizens absent any evidence or due process.
Jay C
EEE&L:
I realize that debating the troll is usually a waste of effort: but Lambchop: if YOU are so certain of Jose Padilla’s guilt (of something) why do you not think that a jury of twelve other Americans at least as intelligent as you (low bar, I know) wouldn’t be able to come to that same conclusion: during say, a trial: with credible evidence, testimony, witnesses, etc.??
And speaking of ignorance: if you truly think that Jose Padilla’s actual actions (whatever they may have been) are what is really at issue here (as opposed to the wholesale shredding of US citzens’ rights by the Bush Administration on specious grounds) then you really need to go back and study the issue some more. Take your time. A LOT of it.
Pooh
Luttig’s opinion is about as close as you or I are ever likely to see to a sitting judge saying “Fuck me? No, FUCK YOU!” in a court proceeding. If a judge wrote about me they way Luttig went after the DOJ, I’d cry.
TenguPhule
No matter how many of his fellows the lamb is willing to give to the butcher, he never leaves the killing room floor.
Krista
Exactly.
If it were up to Lambchop et all, Richard Jewell would have met the same fate as Jose Padilla.
Zifnab
I think I speak for everybody here when I say…
Link plz!
Krista
Are YOU advocating the denial of a vital constitutional right to an American citizen?
EEEL – why do you hate the American Constitution?
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
So most of you guys (the ones with at least a tenuous grip on reality) actually realize that Padilla is a traitor and a terrorist, but you’re too wrapped up your BDS to acknowledge that what terrorist/traitors should rightfully get is a nice, quiet execution — not a trial where their lawyers can whine that Poor Jose had a terrible childhood, so he’s not to blame (hey, it worked before!).
Free
MumiaTookieJose al-Muhajir the Gangbanger Terrorist!So even though he didn’t get his justly-deserved bullets to the base of the skull, you and Nina Totenberg (I’m stunned anyone employs that partisan hack, but it is NPR) still whine about his harsh treatment. Hey, anything to rail against the Real Enemy Bush, right?
I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re just garden-variety fools. But that’s OK. All that matters is that it seems that this traitor has been incapacitated, and that’ll have to do for now. May all his terrorist allies suffer the same fate or much, much worse.
Zifnab
Alright, we’ve had an explosion of about four different r-wingers on this site in less than 24-hours. I’m calling spoof.
Krista
What we realize is that he’s been accused of being a traitor and a terrorist. What we also realize is that he’s an American citizen. And, we realize that as an American citizen, he has a right to a trial to determine whether or not he is a traitor and a terrorist. He’s only been accused. He has not been tried. He has not been convicted.
Is he innocent? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll likely never know, because instead of putting him on trial, your president preferred to have him tortured for two years, and now, he’s unable to stand trial due to being completely mentally fucked up from the ordeal.
An American citizen was imprisoned and denied his constitutional right to a fair trial. Period.
How can that not disturb you?
jh
E.E.E.L,
That’s some good trollspoofery. Yum.
Steve
Execution without trial.
You seriously consider yourself an American?
Jake
So, if someone utterly rejects the principles of their nation and supports the erosion of those principles, does that make him/her/it a traitor?
Just wonderin’.
James F. Elliott
Because it needs to be said: Fanatic. You’re essentially advocating thoughtcrime. George Orwell is in his grave screaming “Off by 23 years, dammit!” Padilla is a terrorist only if you stretch the definition of “material aid” to the point where it is gossamer thin.
I cannot begin to count the logical fallacies contained above. If they want to try and execute Padilla for thoughtcrime, well, I’m opposed to the death penalty and thoughtcrime legislation, so I’d still be against it. I’d be against it for another Timothy McVeigh, too. That’s called principle. But the key word there is try. Padilla hasn’t faced a court of law, as is his right as an American citizen. Even the aforementioned McVeigh had his day in court.
Are you 18? Did you go to high school and pass your civics class? This really shouldn’t be that hard: American citizen. Right to trial. No trial. Tortured until his mind breaks. Broken mind used as excuse for no trial and not discussing the torture. Seriously, dude, it’s not a difficult logic progression. I can even try to use smaller words if it helps.
Krista
Jesus H. Christ – I’m a better American than THAT asshat.
James F. Elliott
E.E.E.&L: Why do you hate America? Your Crawford values are ruining America and causing moral entropy in our children.
James F. Elliott
This just occurred to me: E.E.E.&L., you do realize that this is essentially a Soviet (in case you’re too young to remember that’s Stalinist/Leninist Marxism – i.e. totalitarian socialism, i.e. bad in conservative books) tactic you’re endorsing there: Driving people so insane in government-controlled institutional settings that they no longer pose a threat to the state.
Why do you love Stalin, E.E.E.&L.?
Thomas
EEEL, enjoy your freedoms while they last, man. When Hitlery is elected, your only friend is going to be Nina Totenberg, because she’s going to be piped into your isolation cell 24 hours a day.
TenguPhule
Shorter Lamb: The Constitution is for Pussies! Stalin had a good thing going and we should follow his fine example.
I fear Godwin’s law will be observed any moment now.
James F. Elliott
NAZIS!!!!
Couldn’t resist.
Jake
So long as he doesn’t abort them or expose them to the homosektyooall lifestyle, it’s all good.
James F. Elliott
Apropos to the thread, this from a Vanity Fair profile of John McCain, via Spencer Ackerman:
Tim in SF
I wonder if the framers would agree that it would be better to let ten terrorists go than to put one innocent person through the Padilla gauntlet.
I can’t believe there are actual Americans who believe other American citizens should be executed without a trial or otherwise denied due process. People with this mentality were the ones behind lynchings.
I doubt this EEEL person is an American. Certainly EEEL does not respect what makes this country great.
Anne
I declare shenanigans on EEEL. Do you accept this declaration of shenanigans?
James F. Elliott
If by “shenanigans” you mean “I get to kidnap and torture him in the name of national security” then yes.
Detlef
I doubt this EEEL person is an American. Certainly EEEL does not respect what makes this country great.
Does that mean that everyone in the Bush administration isn´t an American citizen either?
Just asking as a non-American. :)
Because unfortunately some Americans seem to support this.
ThymeZone
Citizenhip is a legal status. Americanism is a set of ideas.
No, the Bush Administration does not represent American ideas. It represents fear, greed for power, self justification, and bigotry. None of those are American ideals.
Does that answer your phony question?
The Other Steve
This is one of those cases where I support the Death Penalty.
It’s just too bad Prosecutors rarely get convicted for incompetence.
Tim in SF
WHAT CASE? There has BEEN no case because there has been no TRIAL!
Newport 9
C’mon, folks, he named himself after an actual sockpuppet! And you’re trying to reason with him?
ThymeZone
I support the death penalty here … for whoever decided to start locking people up and throwing away the key, without a trial.
“Death” here mean “crotch infested with flesh-destroying mites for which there is no known remedy.”
Jessica
What’s really illogical about “But he trained in Afghanistan! He doesn’t deserve a trial!” is that we have a very recent example of an American citizen who committed a terrorist act and killed over 200 people: Timothy McVeigh. He was granted a trial and executed, as I’m sure we all remember. If he can be given the right of due process, why can’t Padilla?
The reason we have laws and a Constitution in this country is not to protect us against terrorists. It’s to protect us against the tyranny of our own government. Our founders deliberately structured the Constitution so that our government *could* not spy on our daily activities and violate its own laws at whim in order to best control us. The three branches of the government are supposed to oversee each other in order to prevent that from happening.
For those who contend that terrorists will strike if the government doesn’t have the ability to ignore the Bill of Rights at its convenience, let me paint a scenario. Imagine that we’re about 2 more years into the future. The government tracks everything you read, everything you buy, every word you speak or write, and everywhere you go. Ostensibly, tracking the daily lives of all 300 million Americans in order to catch someone breaking the law that might pose danger to the country at large. Such clues to potential terrorist activity might range from such mundane occurrences as:
1. Applying for a passport
2. Travelling to a certain region of the world
3. Being a known member of a religious group
4. Participating in a political event, particularly of the party in the minority
5. Spending a large sum of money, such as for a car, a house, a place of business, even a donation to charity
6. Reading certain books
7. Buying certain things in bulk, like fertilizer or gasoline
8. Wearing a shirt that denegrates the current party in power
9. Writing a letter, sending an email, or making a phone call in which you denegrate the current party in power or protest its policies
10. Attend a political event when you belong to the opposing party, even if the officeholder is currently your representative in office
All of these examples have caused people to be investigated, arrested, or their property seized in recent years. Not because they were breaking the law, mind you, because the above activities are all legal and some are even protected. But because the government, looking for patterns, has determined that “potential terrorists” might do one or more of the above in order to “support the enemy”.
So, as a result, since you’re a law-abiding citizen who doesn’t want to draw undue notice from the government, you:
1. Only travel domestically, or to approved locations such as Mexico, Canada or western Europe.
2. Don’t exercise your religious beliefs in public
3. Don’t read books or magazines that might give the impression that you have an interest in undermining the government
4. Stockpile commodities, even if you have no intention of using them in a crime and actually have a legitimate need
5. Convey any politically-motivated messages at any time, even a funny t-shirt or a bumper sticker on your car
6. Are careful to censor your communications in order to not attract the attention of government auditing programs
7. Don’t participate in the democratic process
And if you should accidentally happen to buy several gallons of gas in order to fuel your ATV for your summer in the North Woods, or try to attend a town hall meeting being held by your Senator, even though he’s a Democrat and you’re a Republican, then you can expect a visit from the FBI or the Secret Service. Maybe they’ll throw you in jail for a few days to scare you. Maybe seize your assets. Maybe beat you up a bit. Maybe spread rumors about your supposed “crimes” so that you lose your job and can’t find another one. Maybe investigate your friends and family members for other “ties” to “suspicious activities”, and subject them to the same treatment.
According to so-called ‘patriots’, these are all necessary adjustments in order to prevent terrorists from “destroying our freedom”. So, my question is, how does the above bear any resemblance to freedom?
John Redworth
come on… everyone knows that Bush is a serious Law and Order type of President… (by Law and Order, I mean like the tv show–fiction)
scarshapedstar
At this point, I’m seriously starting to wonder if Padilla knows (or, at this point, knew) something the government does not want getting out. If they really thought he just wanted to bomb something they’d simply lock him up with all the others. No, he’s getting the Special Treatment, and now they’ve come out and admitted that they really just wanted to shut his ass up.
On the other hand, it could be the old Bush escalation logic: if we let him go, he’ll tell the world what we did to him, so we’ve got to go to greater and more ridiculous lengths to keep him under wraps…
…yeah, that’s got to be it. After all, it’s not like anyone in the White House has anything to hide.
VidaLoca
Digby has a post up that quotes from the same NPR article that John cites above. The final paragraph (from NPR):
So basically: the charges are shaky, and the defendant is so broken that it’s unclear they can even try him much less win a conviction. But above all things what they cannot do is ever let him talk about what was done to him, and by whom.
So “it might be best” to ship him to the psychiatric gulag.
Because, yeah — it’s not like anyone in the White House has anything to hide.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Since the PC way to deal with terrorists is with lawyers, not bullets, I vote that we take all guns and munitions away from our soldiers and replace them with restraining orders and arrest warrants.
Because terrorists who want you dead have rights, too!
TenguPhule
Hello Darrell2, to your strawman stupidity I say Fuck you.
Innocent until guilty proven, you sad excuse for a human.
Where’s the proof that he’s a terrorist, you stupid spoof?
They broke the rules again and again, and you still think Bush is your *special* friend?
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Where’s the proof that anybody we’ve killed in a war was a terrorist, or Viet Cong, or Nazi? You don’t replace bullets with warrants, unless you want to lose.
Keep playing kissy-face with this traitorous, gangbanging terrorist thug. You are who you roll with, leftards.
TenguPhule
What war? Padilla was arrested, accused of being a terrorist, held without charges, finally charged after his detention was appealed on something *different* from what he was accused of, charges were dropped *again* and changed to a third accusation without any evidence and as more details emerge it is becoming clear that the government has NEVER HAD an actual case against him based on any reliable evidence but *has* tortured him to the point that he is now insane.
And you see nothing wrong with this picture?
Be sure to give Empress Hillary’s Stormtroopers a big kiss when they ramrod you.
lard lad
I call spoof.
Or maybe it’s Darrell operating under a new monicker. You sure catch a heady whiff of his spoor here. Especially the “replacing warrants with bullets” line.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
In other words, you have no intelligent response. Join the other 99% of this ant-colony of uselessness.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Really? You’ve got to do better then that.
Of course, there’s something WRONG with it, bozo. This traitorous terrorist scum was arrested instead of immediately and quietly terminated. Try to keep up with the rest of the class.
Jessica
The point you seem to be missing is that there’s no proof that he is, in fact, traitorous scum.
And yet the government is throwing him in prison and torturing him anyway, without said proof. More than that, he’s being denied his Constitutional rights to due process and a fair trial.
If you still think this is okay, just replace “Padilla” with your own name. I can tell you’re about to open your mouth and say, “But I wasn’t trying to bring down the government of the great nation that birthed me!”
Neither was he, at least according to the evidence.
So either you support the government arresting, imprisoning and torturing American citizens without any evidence or justification, which basically makes you a complete barbarian who considers the Constitution to be more useful as toilet paper when it comes to your pet agendas, or you support the rights of American citizens regardless of how much you like them, which means Padilla deserves a trial like everyone else in this country.
So which is it?
lard lad
I didn’t bother to pen an “intelligent response,” because there have already been several excellent ones that articulated everything I would have said to you… and, of course, because I’m still about 80% certain that you are a spoofy troll. In case the 20% solution prevails, though…
You, friend, are the one who wouldn’t know an “intelligent response,” if it bit you in the balls. Your only rejoinder to the many and well-thought-out arguments here is to plug your ears and screech “CAN’T HEAR YOU CAN’T HEAR YOU! Padilla is evil scum! Bush says so, that’s all the proof we need! He deserves to die! Kill! KILL!”
Seriously, boyo… where’s the evidence that Padilla is “traitorous terrorist scum?” Circumstantial evidence, even? How about a few words on the subject besides “he just is”? Put something on the goddamn table besides your elbows.
I’m not expecting a substantive reply, of course… just more frenzied hyperventilating and name-calling.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Two douchebags wrote:
Yeah, every two-bit gangbanger from Los Angeles winds up converting to Islam and taking “vacations” in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Happens all the time. I pray that you are Canadians, because Americans shouldn’t be allowed to be as moronic as you “Blame Bush First” lunatics.
Chew:
Do you losers ever get tired of being saps?