You have to admit, from the standpoint of someone whose opinion of the impact of religion on politics sours more every year, this is a virtual jackpot:
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and civil rights activist Al Sharpton traded angry, racially charged accusations yesterday, with Romney alleging that Sharpton had uttered “bigoted” comments about Mormonism.
On the campaign trail in Iowa, Romney was asked about Sharpton’s comment during a debate Monday that “those of us who believe in God” will defeat Romney. The former Massachusetts governor told reporters that such a comment “shows that bigotry still exists in some corners.”
Sharpton angrily denied Romney’s charge in a telephone interview yesterday, and he accused Romney of stoking a verbal war with him to gain support among conservatives.
I am so sick and tired of the role of religion in elections and politicvs. The role of religion in our national decision making should be simple- there shouldn’t be one. Religion is for the individual, and God should be celebrated/worshipped in the home, and in the church, and in the heart. Not in the middle of a national campaign, not as the centerpiece of legislation.
At any rate, I am not sure what all the fuss is about, anyway. Given the way Romney has flip-flopped on virtually every issue to try to get himself elected, by November 2008 he will have declared that he is Baptist.
Keith
Well, y’know, everyone who is baptised in Christ could really call themselves a Baptist, so sure, Mitt’s a Baptist. And setting mouse traps counts as hunting.
annie's granny
That reminds me, do the Mormons still believe that dark skin is a curse from God?
Zombie Santa Claus
Yeah, but the kind of people who base their vote on the issues of prayer in school/Intelligent Design/requiring gay people to wear pink triangles on their clothing will sort of disagree with you, there.
Those people constitute roughy 28% of the American population. Doesn’t that make you feel better?
Zombie Santa Claus
And miniature golf is a sport. And joining the 101st Keyboarders constitutes military service.
AkaDad
Amen
cleek
religion don’t mean a thing
it’s just another way to be right wing
damn, i love Spoon
Zifnab
Honestly, I think religion has done more damage to itself in the past fifty years than all the forces of evolution and gay marriage and liberal flag-burning hippies combined.
How can anyone keep tuning in to the holy-rollers with this sort of mud-slinging and backstabbing going around?
Tsulagi
He already has! LOL Almost. But keeping in character, he wouldn’t want to offend or turn off those other Christian guys like the Catholics.
Seems Mitt’s favorite book is the Bible. I dunno, if I was a Mormon kind of guy, and I was going to pick a religious book as my most fave, I just might answer the Book of Mormon. But then that wouldn’t be Mitt.
Scientologists will also be happy to hear that Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard is Mitty’s favorite novel. Mitt will leave no voter behind.
This guy is a classic. I’m sort of hoping he gets the nomination. I’d like to see how many corners he can turn leading up to the general election vote.
Jake
Fixed. Once some clever bastard figured out that one could gain money and power by saying he had a direct line to the ear of whatever god(s) people worshipped, religion was screwed.
As for Mittens and Sharpie, I propose locking them in a room and walking away.
ThymeZone
Not so fast. I agree with Bill Maher …. golf is not a sport because anything you can do while smoking is not a sport.
Andrew
It’s cool though. As soon as you accept the gospel, you turn white, er, pure.
mrmobi
That’s Flying Spaghetti Monster to you, bub.
My religion gets no respect. It’s the War on Noodly Appendages. The Horror!
Sounds like the basis for a very strange reality show to me.
Zombie Santa Claus
You could smoke a cigar while pitching or batting or manning the outfield, couldn’t you? (Not saying it’d make you the greatest ballplayer, but maybe if your whole team were drunk or something, you could maybe explain it.)
Jimmmm
Mormonism is Scientology without all the celebs. A church created so its founders could get as much young tail as they could poke? Dubious. Admirable, but dubious all the same.
jg
I thought Sharpie said ‘those of us who REALLY believe in God will defeat the mormon’. Anyway Mitt has a right to be pissed there IMO. Unprovoked attacks can get under your skin especially when you’re being called out by Sharpton.
I always defer to Goldwater when it comes to the subject of religion and politics. He said that religion must be separatd because politics is about compromise and you can not compromise if you feel you’re doing Gods work.
Lex
[[“those of us who believe in God”]] = Sharpton
[[“People of faith”]] = Falwell.
They’re both sort of right. But as Mr. Cole observes, they also are both very badly, and tragically, wrong.
BIRDZILLA
AL SHARPTON and his ilk only belive in the constitution when it gives them a chance to trashwhite people he is a arrogant stupid jackass
Zombie Santa Claus
Amen, BIRDZILLA. Whatever what you said means, I agree with it.
cleek
what do you mean “still believe” ? how can the church teach one thing then and a different thing now? aren’t god’s laws eternal and timeless ? why, if a church can change its mind about what a religion is, that means the religion is a creation of man, not of god, and that means it’s not divine at all, but rather just a way to skim 10% of all members’ salaries while telling them how to live their lives. that doesn’t seem likely at all, does it ?
demimondian
The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints does not hold that we know all of God’s Truth; the modern day Saints are as likely to be given a revelation as any safely-dead prophet. That’s why their leader is the “Prophet” — theologically, he really is a prophet, not just The Prophet.
— demi “not a Mormon” mondian
Jake
Heh. Are you familiar with a little organization called the Roman Catholic Church?
Of course, I’ve yet to figure out why God would give a flying spaghetti monster if I ate red meat on a Friday and I’ve noted a distinct lack of the world coming to an end since the church rolled back the daily attendance of Mass requirement. And now Pope Betadine has slapped a big “Closed for Eternity”* sign over Limbo because God couldn’t whisk the unbaptized infants out of there until the Pope let Him.
Does this make any sense to you?
Me neither.
* Warning, this link will take you to the rantings of a priest who needs to loosen the belt on his cassock or something.
ImJohnGalt
Wait a minute. Which one of you wiseacres showed BIRDZILLA how to turn off the caps/lock key? It has diminished his art, somehow.
bud
For once, I find Rev. Al speaking rationally.
The man is (nominally) a Baptist minister. Romney is a Mormon. The fact that he dissed Romney’s religion is about as surprising as if Chevy had actually said something negative about Ford. Duooh.
Although Mormons self-describe themselves as Christian, I’ve had conversations with 3 different “mainstream” religion’s ministers, and all of them describe Mormon theology as so far separated that it was not (and one Episcopal priest verbally emphasised that word) Christian.
Rev Al is not out of the mainstream on this, except for having his opinion widely broadcast.
Ryan
Would someone please give me a real example of Mitt Romney flip-flopping? The abortion thing doesn’t count since he changed his mind exactly once. So this assertion that “…Romney has flip-flopped on virtually every issue to try to get himself elected” is baseless and silly. Virtually every issue? Can you point to anything besides this one video clip that is only about abortion?
I’m waiting.
John Williams
I’m a Mormon, and whether or not we are “Christian” just depends on how you define the word. We believe in Jesus Christ and we read the New Testament. Some non-Mormon Christians get all worked up because in the Mormon Church there are some doctrines that are different from the Baptists, etc…
But we certainly believe in God… I think Al Sharpton’s remarks are similar to the remarks that Don Imus made about the Rutgers women’s basketball team…
Romney should milk this for all of the press coverage he can get… he’s running for president and he needs his name in the headlines.
Hyperion
The PBS two parter a couple of weeks ago on the Mormons reminded me of just how crazy they were (and are). They have some seriously laughable beliefs.
Ryan
Ah, the geniuses have entered. Hyperion, your intellect is truly dizzying.
As for me, I believe in the God of the Sun. It’s a big, fiery orb floating in space. There must be God living inside it somewhere. I’m sure he has atomic vision or something, too. That makes perfect sense.
ConservativelyLiberal
Just about every Mormon I have ever met was what is called a ‘jack mormon’, or a Mormon in name only. They are not any different than anyone else IMO, they are just as likely to smoke weed, party or rip you off as any other christian out there…lol
I co-managed an apartment complex with a Mormon couple, and they also owned a local car wash. They built up a pretty good name in the community then proceeded to rip everyone off that they could. Everyone was going around saying ‘I NEVER ould have imagined that he would have stolen $13,000 off of that retired lady!’. Right before they left town, they tried to talk my wife into letting them deliver the rent receipts to the property owner but the wife would not let the money go unless I said it was ok. If I had been home, they probably would have talked me into letting them take that too.
Regarding Sharpton, this is just another example that what is good for Imus is not so for Sharpton. He will never admit that he has done anything wrong because with Rev. Al, being black means that you never have to say that you are sorry. Just blame it on the white people, works every time. I saw over at Kos that they were even making excuses for him there too. I am glad I quit Kos, they have developed a taste for politically correct, and I don’t do pc.
Sharpton was saying that Mormons do not worship ‘the God’, and it was a cheap shot at Romney. Done in the usually tasteless way that only Al can do (well, Jesse does a good job of imitating Al too). I like how Al says that he wants to meet with Romney and that if Romney will not forgive him then he is less of a man for not doing so.
Gee, Al could not forgive Imus but he expects instant forgiveness for his slur against another. Double standard? Go figure…
jg
If your definition is that christians follow christ then they are christians. But its not that simple. You can’t say the true church of christ disappeared from the earth shortly after Jesus’ death and didn’t return until the 1800’s and say you stand with people who’ve been worshipping a different version for 2000 years just because you both like Jesus.
BTW Joseph Smith was a convicted con man before he claims to have been visited by an angel that told him gold tablets which comprise a new lost testment are buried in the ground in north america. If you look at teh origins of mormonism objectively its seems to be nothing more than a very elaborate con. More elaborate even than the plot of the movie, ‘Diggstown’.
Ryan
Ig, so you’re suggesting that Joseph Smith was already convicted of being a con man when he was 14 years old? You obviously haven’t looked “objectively” at the origins of Mormonism. If you had, you would know understand that there is no way even the most brilliant con man in history could have conceived of and orchestrated such an “elaborate con.”
Besides, what’s so strange about the thought of an angel appearing to a person? Isn’t the Bible full of such manifestations? What’s so strange about the thought of the true church of Christ disappearing with the deaths of the original apostles? Was that not prophesied by Isaiah and other prophets of the Old Testament?
No one claims–certainly not Mormons–that Mormons are the same as other Christians, but the qualification of “Christian” has nothing to do with some human designation of “mainstream” and everything to do with living according to the gospel of Christ. The only question is, what is the true gospel of Christ? That question can only be answered by Christ Himself, so doesn’t it make sense that any church that claims to know the true gospel of Christ would also have to claim a direct revelatory connection to Him? Isn’t that what prophets are for? Isn’t that how God has always done things?
You need to do more “objective” research before you start trying to weigh in as an expert on any such matters.
jg
Well I certainly never said I was an expert.
Beautiful statement. Well put, but are you going to go any further than just telling me I’m wrong? Why is there no way?
Nothing if your intent is to con people into thinking your a prophet. Its a variation on what Mohammed did so its not original but definately effective.
Chuck Butcher
While I agree with the sentiment that religion is between and individual and his god/church these jackasses have made their being people of faith an issue. Fine, if it’s important enough to shove it in the voters faces I want to know what it means. Which millenium do they advocate we live in, just how much magic do we have to tolerate as “science,” who gets screwed under their version – ie what sect stays who goes, what “god words” do you propose to codify in law? There are certainly more questions that could be asked, these are just off the top of my head.
I absolutely loath this kind of crap, apparently in the US there is a religious test to be elected, no agnostic has the moral and ethical fiber to represent our citizens. I am not amused. As for Mitt and Al, they deserve each other.
Ryan
Nice try, ig. You claim Joseph Smith was a convicted con man before he had (or claimed to have had) his manifestations. How about pointing to the proof of that?
There is none because it’s false. It’s a simple attempt to smear him and Mormons without any facts or validity to support your claims.
No, you didn’t say you were an expert, you just try to talk as if you were one. You’re obviously not, so get the facts right, or keep your opinions to yourself.
Hyperion
the facts or YOUR facts?
and that’s another thing i dislike about believers…they have their own facts.
Ryan
My facts are the facts, genius. Can you dispute the facts? Show me the proof.
So which one of us is making up the “facts,” and which is just telling the truth?
Hyperion
from Ryan’s website
an example of YOUR facts…which are actually just a recitation of YOUR beliefs.
thanks for supplying the evidence supporting my allegation.
Ryan
Uh…you still haven’t disputed the facts. If you can prove that abortion is not the elimination of a human life, prove it…with evidence based in fact. That applies to any issue. If you can’t point to any evidence, your opinion and commentary on the issue (any issue) are moot.
floyd
“”The role of religion in our national decision making should be simple- there shouldn’t be one. Religion is for the individual, and God should be celebrated/worshipped in the home, and in the church, and in the heart. Not in the middle of a national campaign, not as the centerpiece of legislation.”” …John Cole
………………………………………….
John:
Eveyone, absolutely everyone, takes their religion[belief system] into the public forum, even those who claim to have no religion, and they should!
That being being said, it should be done as an allegiance to principle,or articles of faith, not as proselytized doctrine or “the centerpiece of legislation”.
If a person hid their faith only in the privacy of home, church,and heart, that person would be a hypocrite in public.
One should never espouse a belief in which they are publicly ashamed.
floyd
“”The role of religion in our national decision making should be simple- there shouldn’t be one. Religion is for the individual, and God should be celebrated/worshipped in the home, and in the church, and in the heart. Not in the middle of a national campaign, not as the centerpiece of legislation.”” …John Cole
………………………………………….
John:
Eveyone, absolutely everyone, takes their religion[belief system] into the public forum, even those who claim to have no religion, and they should!
That being being said, it should be done as an allegiance to principle,or articles of faith, not as proselytized doctrine or “the centerpiece of legislation”.
If a person hid their faith only in the privacy of home, church,and heart, that person would be a hypocrite in public.
One should never espouse a belief in which they are publicly ashamed.