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You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Previous Site Maintenance / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  January 9, 20082:49 pm| 62 Comments

This post is in: Previous Site Maintenance

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Because we need one, and all my co-bloggers died.

By the way, maybe I should run for President. If all I need to do is promise change and I can get half of the liberal community falling on their knees praising me, I think I might have a shot. Believe me- as President, I will be a change.

/troll

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62Comments

  1. 1.

    richard

    January 9, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    nah, I have a better idea. My friend has been a blogger for 25 years. We’ve been grinding it out. Send us in. We’re best equipped for new ideas.

  2. 2.

    Sensitive Pony Tailed Girly Man

    January 9, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Why didn’t you say something sooner, dumbass? We could have passed that hat for the $1K filing fee and gotten you on the NH Ballot. That’s all it takes up there, and there were plenty of ninnies who did just that.

  3. 3.

    Sensitive Pony Tailed Girly Man

    January 9, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Just to finish my thought, so called, there were 42 candidates to pick from. Live Free or Die!

  4. 4.

    TheFountainHead

    January 9, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Was Obama really at the bottom of a list of 42 candidates? No wonder the polling was off.

  5. 5.

    Svensker

    January 9, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Only if you promise not to give the secret to using Scoop to any Republicans.

  6. 6.

    Jake

    January 9, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    By the way, maybe I should run for President.

    You’d have to get married, dump the cat and give up Hola Fruta.

  7. 7.

    Billy K

    January 9, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    I really have nothing to say.* I just want to get in before we hit 200 comments. I was following the last thread nicely, then had to work for a while. I come back and it’s grown to unmanageable proportions.

    *I had a diatribe about Bush declaring martial law saved up for the next open thread, but I won’t bother anyone with it now.

  8. 8.

    Blue Neponset

    January 9, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    You’d have to get married, dump the cat and give up Hola Fruta.

    …stop playing WoW and accept Steely McBeam as your personal savior.

  9. 9.

    Punchy

    January 9, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    You’d have to get married, dump the cat and give up Hola Fruta.

    I may have misread this, but I think John would have to move to Massachusetts to do this.

    After all….Hola Fruta. Isn’t that Mexican for “Hi, I’m fruity!”, right?

  10. 10.

    D-Chance.

    January 9, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Open Thread
    Because we need one, and all my co-bloggers died.

    Yes, the place has show considerable improvement, lately.

  11. 11.

    Bubblegum Tate

    January 9, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    So, uh…you got any change?

  12. 12.

    Billy K

    January 9, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    After all….Hola Fruta. Isn’t that Mexican for “Hi, I’m fruity!”, right?

    No, it’s Spanish for “Hello, fruit!” I don’t think he’d be real popular with Hispanics.

  13. 13.

    Ed Drone

    January 9, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    42 candidates? Holy crap! That’s stupid.

    Someone told me about a law in, I think I was told, West Virginia, where “None of the Above” is on every ballot (obviously, only statewide or local elections, as applying it to national races would require a national law). IF “None” wins, then a runoff race has to be held, in a short time, and none of the losing candidates are eligible to run in it.

    I do not know if this is the actual law, but man, it surely ought to be! What a concept! I know in places like Georgia, if no one wins a majority, the top two then compete in a run-off, but eliminating candidates if “none of the above” polls more is just such a nifty idea.

    Someone needs to start the ball rolling for making this a national law.

    For that matter, another change needed is the dissolution of the Electoral College, and a third electoral change would be to reintroduce the “fairness doctrine,” to make it possible for all sorts of candidates to get their ideas heard and seen. For that matter, getting rid of campaign contributions is a good idea, too. Right now, people who win on November 9 have to start funding their reelections by November 10. This is obscene.

    So that’s my take on it. Except for tightening our libel laws to include being sued for campaign claims that are egregiously misleading.

    That’s enough kooky ideas for one comment, I think.

    Ed

  14. 14.

    Pb

    January 9, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Was Obama really at the bottom of a list of 42 candidates?

    Looks like about half that; here’s the order:

    1. Biden
    4. Clinton
    6. Dodd
    7. Edwards
    8. Gravel
    15. Kucinich
    18. Obama

    Seems they randomly selected the letter ‘Z’ to start off with and then went in alphabetical order from there, wrapping around. And they did this on all the ballots, unlike in previous years. Apparently this effect alone can cause a discrepancy of 3% or more.

  15. 15.

    TheFountainHead

    January 9, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    1. Biden
    4. Clinton
    6. Dodd
    7. Edwards
    8. Gravel
    15. Kucinich
    18. Obama

    I’m no expert in this matter, but it seems to me that this would be a little bit of an issue.

  16. 16.

    DrDave

    January 9, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    NH Voters had the opportunity to vote for:

    O. Savior
    Minneapolis, MN

    I kid you not.

  17. 17.

    Paul L.

    January 9, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    By the way, maybe I should run for President. If all I need to do is promise change and I can get half of the liberal community falling on their knees praising me, I think I might have a shot. Believe me- as President, I will be a change.

    It has to be the right kind of change.

    Solution: Raise Taxes on the “rich.”

  18. 18.

    LiberalTarian

    January 9, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Y’all seriously think that Obama lost because people couldn’t find him on the ballot?

    Can I have a puff off that?

  19. 19.

    dslak

    January 9, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Y’all seriously think that Obama lost because people couldn’t find him on the ballot?

    The shock of loss is often a potent narcotic in its own wright.

  20. 20.

    dslak

    January 9, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    I meant to put this in box quotes:

    Can I have a puff off that?

  21. 21.

    TheFountainHead

    January 9, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Y’all seriously think that Obama lost because people couldn’t find him on the ballot?

    Not saying that, though I think we could find some psychologists and professional pollsters who would tell us it sure didn’t help his numbers.

  22. 22.

    Sid

    January 9, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    I don’t support Obama because of his Kumbaya shtick. No…a lot of us support Obama because he had the correct judgment to oppose the Iraq war from the beginning, and for the right reasons.

    Whereas, you John Cole, sneered at the anti-war movement for being a bunch of Saddam apologists and soft on terrorism.

  23. 23.

    Cyrus

    January 9, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Seems they randomly selected the letter ‘Z’ to start off with and then went in alphabetical order from there, wrapping around. And they did this on all the ballots, unlike in previous years. Apparently this effect alone can cause a discrepancy of 3% or more.

    Explain to me again what the problem is with candidates getting selected in smoke-filled back rooms?

    I mean, I’m almost serious about this. And I certainly don’t advocate general elections. But I’d rather have Hillary Clinton win a primary by fiat then have Barack Obama win because two percent of Hillary Clinton supporters voted drunk, forgot their glasses, were dyslexic, whatever, and got Clinton mixed up with Caroline Killeen.

  24. 24.

    Zifnab

    January 9, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Paul, what does this have to do with the Duke Lacross Rape story?

    Whereas, you John Cole, sneered at the anti-war movement for being a bunch of Saddam apologists and soft on terrorism.

    Yes, ok. That meme died on the last election. Admittedly, after he voted for Bush… twice… John’s judgment gets called into question pretty regularly around here. But you can’t hate on him for being wonky on policy over image. Maybe he’s not just being a hater and is actually trying to avoid the pitfall that got us stuck with a President We’d Like To Have A Beer With. Give the guy some credit.

  25. 25.

    Zifnab

    January 9, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Explain to me again what the problem is with candidates getting selected in smoke-filled back rooms?

    I mean, I’m almost serious about this. And I certainly don’t advocate general elections. But I’d rather have Hillary Clinton win a primary by fiat then have Barack Obama win because two percent of Hillary Clinton supporters voted drunk, forgot their glasses, were dyslexic, whatever, and got Clinton mixed up with Caroline Killeen.

    Voters will inveritable vote for what they believe will be their best interests. Give the power of candidate nomination to guys in smoke filled back rooms, and you’ll never see a smoking ban pass in this country again. Whether that is good or bad for the country at large is immaterial to the smoke-filled room pickers.

    Smoke-filled back rooms tend to be establishment, anti-progressive candidates. So if you’re an anti-establishment progressive, they generally rub you the wrong way.

  26. 26.

    Pb

    January 9, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    LiberalTarian,

    Y’all seriously think that Obama lost because people couldn’t find him on the ballot?

    Follow some links and do some reading, it’s a fairly well known statistical / polling quirk, which is why good polls randomize their list items to minimize this effect.

    Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that you were ok with Clinton or Obama, but didn’t like Edwards. So, you look at the list, and the first name you recognize is “Clinton”, and you say, ok, I’ll vote for her. However, had you seen Obama’s name first, maybe you would have voted for him instead.

    Incidentally, I do wonder if approval voting would also help minimize this effect–by letting people vote for as many candidates as they wanted to, would they be more likely to look over the whole list? Maybe, but I think I’d still want to see the lists get randomized.

  27. 27.

    Sasha

    January 9, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Admittedly, after he voted for Bush… twice… John’s judgment gets called into question pretty regularly around here. But you can’t hate on him for being wonky on policy over image.

    Twice burnt, thrice shy.

  28. 28.

    Birdzilla

    January 9, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I dont care for OBAMMA he is too liberal and favored by the bird cage liners and talking heads

  29. 29.

    dslak

    January 9, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    The real Birdzilla would have said “Osama.” I call shenanigans!

  30. 30.

    srv

    January 9, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Cole-Hamsher 2008

  31. 31.

    Louise

    January 9, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Anyone know of a military/government source for information on infrastructure — specifically electricity and water supplies — in Iraq? I’m looking for current stats on the hours of electricity provided, and the person who I’m talking to won’t trust any newspaper accounts.

  32. 32.

    tBone

    January 9, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    It has to be the right kind of change.

    Leave it to Paul L to make John’s original lame troll look good by comparison.

    I dont care for OBAMMA he is too liberal and favored by the bird cage liners

    Cheer up, BZ. That just means you get to poop on him regularly.

  33. 33.

    Billy K

    January 9, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Cole-Hamsher 2008

    You have my vote…and my sword!

  34. 34.

    Dracula

    January 9, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Believe me- as President, I will be a change

    Our first gay president?

  35. 35.

    ThymeZone

    January 9, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Anyone know of a military/government source for information on infrastructure

    Check the Iraq Weekly Status Report from the State Department, I think it has all the information you need, including a demand/supply electrical power chart.

  36. 36.

    srv

    January 9, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/factsheets/docs/December_2007.pdf

    http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=5&id=32&Itemid=47&Itemid=47

    Progress is, or course, a moving goal post.

  37. 37.

    ThymeZone

    January 9, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    For example see page 12 of this recent weekly report.

  38. 38.

    Z

    January 9, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Anybody can run (provided they have a LOT of money). So, basically, John can start by pretending he has to ‘update’ his website and funnel the money into his campaign. Then he can start fellating the wealthy donors and lobbyists. Finally, he can start quoting the ‘serious’ foreign policy talking heads, so they swoon over him. Pretty much, his campaign would be viable.

    Is anyone else completely sick of the coverage? I love what Glen Greenwald had to say about it today.

  39. 39.

    wasabi gasp

    January 9, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Longer links pleazez. O how I luvz me some horizontal scroll.

  40. 40.

    Jon H

    January 9, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    If Clinton is elected, we’re going to suffer through 4-8 years of rhetoric crafted by Hallmark and Celine Dion.

    Gack.

  41. 41.

    Billy K

    January 9, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    If Clinton is elected, we’re going to suffer through 4-8 years of rhetoric crafted by Hallmark and Celine Dion.

    Wait…was that sexist? I can’t tell any more.

  42. 42.

    Wilfred

    January 9, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Progress is, or course, a moving goal post.

    Here’s more

  43. 43.

    ImJohnGalt

    January 9, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    I do loves me some Barney Frank. [In a purely platonic way]

  44. 44.

    Chris

    January 9, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    If all I need to do is promise change and I can get half of the liberal community falling on their knees praising me, I think I might have a shot. Believe me- as President, I will be a change.

    You could try marrying a former president. I hear that helps a lot.

  45. 45.

    Louise

    January 9, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Thanks all!

  46. 46.

    Conservatively Liberal

    January 9, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    I know John is all for change. When I cleaned out my change jug last year, I donated $50.00 of it to BJ. John did not complain, thus I can confirm John does like change. Our change. So please give freely, and often! The more you give, the more change there is!

    See, change can be good! Just ask John! ;)

    John, if you run and get elected, please select me to head the new Department of Marijuana Quality Assurance. I can promise that I will be at work every single day. Hell, even weekends!

    If not, then how about the Bureau of Skimpy Lingerie. I would approach the job with eyes wide open to every detail. I promise to be a hands on guy too, no delegating.

  47. 47.

    Jake

    January 9, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Solar System safer than Detroit.

  48. 48.

    AkaDad

    January 9, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    I think America is ready for a President who eats Hola Fruta.

  49. 49.

    Jon H

    January 9, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    “Wait…was that sexist? I can’t tell any more”

    It’s not a question about gender, it’s a question of taste.

  50. 50.

    Jon H

    January 9, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    Am I the only one who, when listening to McCain’s speech, is reminded of Gallagher reciting his poem about rivers?

  51. 51.

    Jon H

    January 9, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Apparently Bush devalued the presidency so much it is now the consolation prize for being in a bad marriage. And not even a violent one.

  52. 52.

    libarbarian

    January 9, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    One of Sullivans readers captures my thoughts exactly

    You’re right to note that Obama, too, “has plans,” but frankly, when it comes to electing a president, I don’t care so much about that. Congress will have a legislative agenda, and they will (or they won’t) implement it. The president’s agenda too often is set by someone else, like al-Qaeda. And when that time comes, I want a measured, principled, reflective president with a rigorous intellect who will capably work with people on either side of the aisle to ensure that the right decisions are made. What I don’t want is a partisan warrior for whom political power and public service have become all but indistinguishable. That’s why I’m backing Obama.

    I dont give much of a damn about “hope”. I want a politicians whose attitude is “How can we accomplish something good in our limited time in power?” not “How can we stay in power for long enough for us to eventually accomplish something good”

  53. 53.

    J sub D

    January 9, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Seems they randomly selected the letter ‘Z’ to start off with and then went in alphabetical order from there, wrapping around. And they did this on all the ballots, unlike in previous years. Apparently this effect alone can cause a discrepancy of 3% or more.

    Apparently at least 3% of voters are too stupid to be trusted with the franchise. It sure is a good thing they don’t have that all-confusing butterfly ballot, then we’d have to through out the results all together .

  54. 54.

    The Other Steve

    January 9, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    I want a measured, principled, reflective president with a rigorous intellect who will capably work with people on either side of the aisle to ensure that the right decisions are made.

    Fixed.

  55. 55.

    J sub D

    January 9, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Believe me- as President, I will be a change

    Our first gay president?

    Actually, that would be our first transexual president.

  56. 56.

    Badtux

    January 9, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    The only “change” I’m going crazy about is the fact that none (zero) of the leading Democratic candidates are stupid batshit crazy ideologues. Which makes them 1,000,000,000,000 times better than the current occupant of the office, and indeed would be real “change”, at least compared to the last seven years.

    As for which of the Democrats win… meh. I’ll vote for one of them in November, that’s all I know. Because the leading Republican candidates are all batshit crazy, and I done had ’nuff of dat silliness, mon cher!

    – Badtux the Meh Penguin

  57. 57.

    Badtux

    January 9, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    While on the subject of proposals for revised campaign laws, here’s one. If you tell a lie about any other candidate, you’re automatically disqualified. Hell, if you tell a lie, period, during the course of your campaign, you’re automatically disqualified.

    Only problem then becomes finding candidates who aren’t liars. Hmm, might be a slight problem there…

    – Badtux the Snarky Penguin

  58. 58.

    ThymeZone

    January 9, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    I just woke up from a nap. Did I miss anything? Is there anyone out there?

  59. 59.

    Tractarian

    January 9, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    I want a measured, principled, reflective president with a rigorous intellect who will capably work with people on either side of the aisle to ensure that the right decisions are made.

    Fixed.

    You are aware that it takes 60 votes to beat a filibuster in the Senate, right? How is Hillary supposed to get legislation passed without “working with people on the other side of the aisle”?

    That’s why I think all this talk about “fight” is baloney. Democrats are thirsting for revenge after 7 years of being pushed around. Hillary is tapping into that sentiment (so is Edwards, less successfully). But tough talk won’t mean anything if she doesn’t have 60 votes to back it up.

  60. 60.

    J sub D

    January 9, 2008 at 9:43 pm

    You are aware that it takes 60 votes to beat a filibuster in the Senate, right? How is Hillary supposed to get legislation passed without “working with people on the other side of the aisle”?

    After 6 years of GWB and a Republican majority in both houses, aren’t sane people happy that filibustering exists.

  61. 61.

    libarbarian

    January 10, 2008 at 12:56 am

    That’s why I think all this talk about “fight” is baloney. Democrats are thirsting for revenge after 7 years of being pushed around. Hillary is tapping into that sentiment (so is Edwards, less successfully). But tough talk won’t mean anything if she doesn’t have 60 votes to back it up.

    Exactly. They only need like 10 Republicans, not all of them.

    Too many people would rather insist on 100%, get nothing, and then have a grievance to nurse and campaign on, than to actually get something done now.

    Of course its all rationalized because “they started it”.

    After 6 years of GWB and a Republican majority in both houses, aren’t sane people happy that filibustering exists.

    Yeah – it keeps tiny minorities from making sweeping changes that are highly unpopular with a significant fraction of the country. That is exactly what the hyper-partisans keep trying to do, and thats why important issues go inadequately addressed for so long.

  62. 62.

    heywood jablomy

    January 10, 2008 at 1:47 am

    It’s like this, see:

    Hillary won because:

    1) Her team of extremely loyal and competent women GOT THE VOTE OUT.
    2) Women on the fence went for the strong able woman with baggage over the inspiring young man with too little experience. They did this because they believe it is their time – women’s time – to run the government. Thank god. Men have proved they can’t run it for the last 10 years.
    3) Say what you want about Hillary but she’s the only American female pol with the guts to slug it out with the boys at this level. She deserves her shot
    4) I’m as unconvinced by Hillary as the rest. I want more read meat from her and more blood on the floor against these scumbag repubs.

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