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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / One Other Thing

One Other Thing

by John Cole|  May 12, 20086:09 pm| 69 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008

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I just saw the talking heads on Hardball state that one reason Hillary is staying in until the end is “in case something big happens to derail Obama.”

I simply do not understand this logic at all. If Hillary drops out of the race, and something major is unearthed about Obama that would derail his candidacy (a videotape surfaces of him doing cocaine off the nipple of a teenage boy while Imams chant the Koran and organize a gun running organization for Hamas and Al Qaeda), who the hell does she think the delegates are going to turn to- Edwards?

It is a simple no-brainer that “if something happened,” Hillary would be the party candidate. She doesn’t need to be in the race to get the nod in that situation.

Not saying she should get out, just saying that is a particularly silly argument.

*** Update ***

Good point from the comments:

uhmm…this is the “talking heads” that are saying this shit. Not Clinton’s camp or even one of her swiney surrogates. Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about. Even if she’s just a big fat loser. Please quit giving the media fodder to feed on.

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Reader Interactions

69Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab

    May 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    At the moment, I think Hillary is just playing every quarter she’s got left in the great American slot machine. Maybe Obama catches a bad case of the “hit by a bus”. Maybe everyone in Oregon sneezes at once and they all accidentally pull the lever for Hillary. Maybe Obama’s magic pony-powered mind-control ray finally breaks down and all the Super Delegates come back to their senses.

    If Hillary stays in, she can turn on a dime and capitalize on Obama’s falter. If she leaves, Obama could replace the batteries in his Obamarama beam and be back on course to the nomination before Hillary can leap in to save the day.

    Also, you haven’t actually lost until you admit defeat. Hillary can take this thing all the way to November if necessary.

  2. 2.

    vwcat

    May 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    It’s an excuse. Hillary is pretending that she is needed just in case. right.
    If the media buys it it just shows they are still clueless.
    Afterall, they have combed through everything and if something was going to be found it would have already.
    But, after the polls close tomorrow look for the bubble heads to begin their never ending ginning up of the race and questioning if Obama is strong enough.
    Nevermind he did not campaign there.
    sigh. Too bad we cannot have a media like the blogs where you get the real scoop and not created drama

  3. 3.

    Conservatively Liberal

    May 12, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Agreed John. I heard Tweety and the Talking Heads singing “I’ll Be There For You”, and my thought was ‘WTF?! Hillary is second, so who the hell are they going to ask to step in? Gore?!’.

    Hmmm, maybe I am on to something… ;)

  4. 4.

    Dennis - SGMM

    May 12, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    The Clintons will resort to floor fights, lawsuits, threats, and every other tactic that they can think of because it’s her turn, dammit! H.M.S. Pantsuit will sail on to the convention.

  5. 5.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    I agree she knows she’s a shooin for second fiddle. I think she’s hanging in with this “Fightin’ woman” schtick to keep the sisterhood (and some menfolk) in maximum fawn and outrage for later on , say 2012 or 16. Although, the most rabid ones are few in number, they are much more fervent than the most dedicated Obama supporter, imo. And I think she likes the stage and adulation and wants to keep it going as long as possible.

  6. 6.

    Ninerdave

    May 12, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    It’s called suspending your campaign Hillary.

  7. 7.

    shirt

    May 12, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    I’m not sure where i read it but Obama would not like to lose uncontested in West virginia and Kentucky.

    But how about tweety’s othedr amazing point, Chuck Hagel as Veep!?

    Right… Isn’t that like painting a bullseye on Barak’s back?

  8. 8.

    Keith

    May 12, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    It’s that Old Politics vs. New Politics dynamic: the punditry class cannot fathom that the “perfect candidate” (not that Obama’s perfect, but he is not a cynic’s candidate) is not hiding the proverbial dead girl/live boy somewhere all the way until the first Monday of November.

  9. 9.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    May 12, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Maybe it’s just me, but after watching the past few months I get a little nervous when I hear the Hillary campaign say “just in case something bad happens to Obama”.

    Like, say, Richard M Scaife accusing him in print of being a gay terrorist (not that Scaife would ever help Hillary, his mortal enemy, who could never forgive him for all the terrible things he said about her).

  10. 10.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 12, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    Could Ryan Lizza have found a gheyer pair of glasses?

  11. 11.

    crystal dawn

    May 12, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    uhmm…this is the “talking heads” that are saying this shit. Not Clinton’s camp or even one of her swiney surrogates. Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about. Even if she’s just a big fat loser. Please quit giving the media fodder to feed on.

  12. 12.

    maxbaer (not the original)

    May 12, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Also, you haven’t actually lost until you admit defeat.

    So, she’s using Bush’s Iraq strategery?

  13. 13.

    Punchy

    May 12, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I just saw the talking heads on hardball state that one reason Hillary is staying in until the end is “in case something big happenss to derail Obama.”

    Makes ya kinda think that they know something we dont?

  14. 14.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 12, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Makes ya kinda think that they know something we dont?

    No, it just means they’re a pack of racists who feel the black candidate must meet a higher thresshold of viability than simply winning the pledged delegate count that would normally suffice for a white candidate.

  15. 15.

    wingnuts to iraq

    May 12, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    John,

    If you wanna chuckle at Hillary’s expense check out this snarkfest “How Obama Blew It”

    my favorite part:

    March 13: Concerned that he is losing support from key demographics such as White Ethnic voters, Older voters and Willfully Ignorant voters, Obama asks the press to stop referring to him as either African-American or mixed race. He asks that from this point forward he be referred to as White Plus!

    the win is strong in that post

  16. 16.

    p.lukasiak

    May 12, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    nothing “big” has to happen… Obama can just keep tanking in his matchups against McCain, and by August the party will be begging her to run.

    But in order to win in November, she has to maintain at least a framework of an organization — she can’t just ‘show up’ and beat McCain — especially since dumping Obama will be portrayed by the media as a “desperation” move.

    Also, keep in mind that her campaign is in debt — but she has a whole pile of cash available for the GE. From what I understand, that money can’t be “spent” until after the convention…but it may well be that FEC rules make it possible for her to retire that debt using GE funds if she doesn’t concede the race.

  17. 17.

    SamFromUtah

    May 12, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    it just means they’re a pack of racists who feel the black candidate must meet a higher thresshold of viability than simply winning the pledged delegate count that would normally suffice for a white candidate.

    I don’t think so; I’m guessing they’d be every bit as whiny and annoying about a white competitor beating them, but they’d find different reasons for it.

  18. 18.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 12, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    I don’t think so

    It helps if you ignore HRC’s clear racial appeals.

  19. 19.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    crystal dawn Says:

    uhmm…this is the “talking heads” that are saying this shit. Not Clinton’s camp or even one of her swiney surrogates. Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about. Even if she’s just a big fat loser. Please quit giving the media fodder to feed on.

    Absolutely agree. And I’ve not called for her to drop out and believe the more excitement generated in individual states in the primary is good for the dems in the GE. The problem is, as has been quoted by thousands, her campaign tactics of dragging Obama thru the gutter and triangulating with wingnuts. Not to mention slamming the dnc and Obama for actually following the rules she has previously agreed on.

  20. 20.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    p.lukasiak Says:

    nothing “big” has to happen… Obama can just keep tanking in his matchups against McCain, and by August the party will be begging her to run.

    Now your starting to spoof yourself pluk. But then we can always use a good laugh around here.

  21. 21.

    Mary

    May 12, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Clinton rehearses (YouTube).

  22. 22.

    Andrei

    May 12, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Way to be a trendsetter there Cole.

    You even beat HotAir at their own game!

    And now if anything, you can always say you were first with that story ages ago in case someone decides to Google it while doing oppo.

  23. 23.

    Doug H. (Fausto no more)

    May 12, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    nothing “big” has to happen… Obama can just keep tanking in his matchups against McCain, and by August the party will be begging her to run.

    When you’re wishing for ponies like a victory-obsessed warblogger, perhaps its time to re-assess your candidate’s chances.

  24. 24.

    Dennis - SGMM

    May 12, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    …the party will be begging her to run.

    Just as we’re all begging for more insights from pluk.

  25. 25.

    BethanyAnne

    May 12, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Dear P. Luk,

    In what way is this tanking?

    Thanks in advance,
    Bethany

  26. 26.

    MDee

    May 12, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Tweety masochists. Why not just attach jumper cables from the car to your ears and rev up the engine? The experience would probably be more illuminating than watching Tweety.

    Less painful, too.

  27. 27.

    Soylent Green

    May 12, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    The talking heads have their primarymobile all gassed up and ready for a another run down the tarmac. They don’t want to acknowledge that this contest is over because then they would have to get off their keisters and do some actual footwork on McCain. Why research a new story when you can phone it in endlessly retelling the old one?

    by August the party will be begging her to run.

    Oh please Senator Hillary we are so sorry. Can you ever forgive us? How blind and stupid we were. Why didn’t we realize that he would turn out to be a pedophile/communist revolutionary/serial murderer/space alien/black guy? We turn to you in our hour of need. Have pity on us poor fools for ever doubting you. And after you become president, please give Paul Lukasiak a position in your administration. God knows he deserves it. How about ambassador to the Republic of Elbonia?

  28. 28.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Of topic, however,

    If any member of our party is guilty in that matter, you know it or you do not know it. If you do know it, you are inexcusable for not designating the man and proving the fact. If you do not know it, you are inexcusable for asserting it, and especially for persisting in the assertion after you have tried and failed to make the proof. You need to be told that persisting in a charge which one does not know to be true, is simply malicious slander.

    Honest Abe on how to deal with guilt by association.

  29. 29.

    His Grace

    May 12, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    It’s possible that she’s still in the race for egos sake, but not crazy egos sake. Obama has beat her de facto by virtue of mathematics but not de jure. Quitting now, with less than a month to go, after placing such a strong second would be very humiliating. Especially since she was considered the de facto nominee 6 months ago and may well feel (as many of her supporters do) that she was robbed.

  30. 30.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    May 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    (a videotape surfaces of him doing cocaine off the nipple of a teenage boy while Imams chant the Koran and organize a gun running organization for Hamas and Al Qaeda)

    Thats probably not enough to sink him, unless they took all those guns being run were taken from “real” Americans.

    But crystal dawn, as your update notes, makes an excellent point. Recall, this is the establisment media just adding some “expertise” to the conversation. They love to sound very, very smart. I’m not sure these morons actually understand how the internet works, as they seem to say things so utterly stupid, and are generally refuted before they get off the air. By the time they appear again they’ve been torched and fairly well fact checked. The blogosphere is probably the largest neural network ever devised.

  31. 31.

    Dug Jay

    May 12, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    A new ABC News poll says most Democrats say there’s no hurry for Hillary to drop out:

    Pushing back against political punditry, more than six in 10 Democrats [64%] say there’s no rush for Hillary Clinton to leave the presidential race – even as Barack Obama consolidates his support for the nomination and scores solidly in general-election tests.

  32. 32.

    PeterJ

    May 12, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    …but it may well be that FEC rules make it possible for her to retire that debt using GE funds if she doesn’t concede the race.

    I wouldn’t try that, even if the FEC isn’t working properly right now.

    It doesn’t matter if she concedes the race or not, what matters is if she gets nominated at the convention or not. If not then she will have to repay the money contributed for her GE run or get permission to use it for other things.

    She could for example ask contributors that hasn’t given the full amount for the primary for permission to transfer any money they have given for the general election to her primary funds and then use it to repay her loans.

    But I’m guessing a lot of those that gave her money, either wants it back or wants to give it to Obama rather than giving it to her so that she can repay her own loans.

  33. 33.

    John Cole

    May 12, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Jeralynn has finally lost her god damned mind for realz.

  34. 34.

    PaulB

    May 12, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    nothing ‘big’ has to happen…

    Yes, actually it does. At least it does out here in the real world. You should join us here someday.

    Obama can just keep tanking in his matchups against McCain, and by August the party will be begging her to run.

    That presupposes that Obama is actually “tanking” against McCain, something that is manifestly untrue and wholly unsupported by the available data. Obama is basically in a dead heat with McCain, something that will change now that the primary is over and the focus is on the November election.

    Tell us again how Obama is “tanking” in California while Clinton is “rising” there, won’t you? You never did acknowledge that you lied about that.

  35. 35.

    dr. bloor

    May 12, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Jeralynn has finally lost her god damned mind for realz.

    An obtuseness worthy of Jake Tapper.

    Jeralyn and Circus Tent Democrat are going to be pretty lonely over there after the freak show clears out.

  36. 36.

    PaulB

    May 12, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Jeralynn has finally lost her god damned mind for realz.

    Good god, what an awful post that was. Does she even think about what she’s writing these days? Obama would make a good AG in a Clinton cabinet (in an earlier post)? Obama is throwing “us” under the bus? Pretending that it makes one iota of a difference as to whether the soldiers were drafted or volunteered with respect to Obama’s comment?

    This is beyond pathetic.

  37. 37.

    PaulB

    May 12, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    A new ABC News poll says most Democrats say there’s no hurry for Hillary to drop out

    Yup, most people are fine with Clinton staying in the race until the final primary. What does this have to do with John’s point?

  38. 38.

    PaulB

    May 12, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    John, you missed an even better post: BTD’s comment on that Jeralyn thread:

    Though I assure you the outrage at Hillary Clinton has [sic] she said it would know no ends [sic].

    Um … no.

  39. 39.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    from jeralynn

    Too many of those who opposed the war in Vietnam chose to blame not only the leaders who ordered the mission, but the young men who simply answered their country’s call. Four decades later, the sting of that injustice is a wound that has never fully healed, and one that should never be repeated.

    That damned elitist Obama. How dare he stand up for Vietnam Vets at the expense of good progressive BB voters. I’ve said it before, Jeralynn is a nice person that is somewhere left of Noam Chomsky.

  40. 40.

    Lyssophobe

    May 12, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Dude, I think she lost it a loooonnnggg time ago. And it really is sad. I admired Jeralyn for years, and TalkLeft was at the top of my blog bookmarks longer than any other. But the Hillary fanaticism is irrational on a Jonestown level over there. If someone, somewhere, happened to catch Obama buying Charmin tissue, she’d rearrange it into some sort of mortal insult to “real” democrats.

    The constant harping about how Florida and Michigan should not only count, but count as voted, is what cemented it for me. I only check TalkLeft now in daily amazement that there is apparently no bottom.

  41. 41.

    PaulB

    May 12, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Some of the other comments in that thread are priceless, too:

    Obama, who’s sole claim to national fame rests on his speech opposing the Iraq war, is saying that the poeple [sic] who opposed the Vietnam war are bad???

    And, in clueless irony, that same poster ended his comment with:

    Does.
    Not.
    Compute.
    Error!
    Failure!

  42. 42.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    There are quite a few comments that suggest that the post is nuts. Perhaps a good sign?

  43. 43.

    PeterJ

    May 12, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    But the Hillary fanaticism is irrational on a Jonestown level over there.

    Jeralyntown?

  44. 44.

    Davis X. Machina

    May 12, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    This is America. Candidates get ‘derailed’ by something big all the time.

  45. 45.

    cleek

    May 12, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    imagine life as an ‘illary supporter these days. it’s gotta be tough! can you really blame them for viciously attacking every little thing that comes their way, like rabid badgers ?

    i think not

  46. 46.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Although I will say that Jeralynn’s interpretation of Obama’s speech is just plain wrong.

  47. 47.

    El Doh

    May 12, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    imagine life as an ‘illary supporter these days.

    Sounds exhausting.

  48. 48.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 12, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Although I will say that Jeralynn’s interpretation of Obama’s speech is just plain wrong.

    I didn’t even understand her interpretation. I’m probably not stoopid enough.

  49. 49.

    PK

    May 12, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    An idle question?
    What happens if something happens to McCain? Its not too improbable. Who would replace him? Huckabee or Romney?

  50. 50.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    She takes this paragraph

    One of the saddest episodes in our history was the degree to which returning vets from Vietnam were shunned, demonized and neglected by some because they served in an unpopular war. Too many of those who opposed the war
    in Vietnam chose to blame not only the leaders who ordered the mission, but the young men who simply answered their country’s call. Four decades later, the sting of that injustice is a wound that has never fully healed, and one that should never be repeated.

    And makes it the central theme of a speech concerning this:

    At the same time, we must never forget that honoring this service and upholding these ideals requires more than saluting our veterans as they march by on Veterans Day or Memorial Day. It requires marching with them for the care and benefits they have earned It requires standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our veterans and their families after the guns fall silent and the cameras are turned off. At a time when we’re facing the largest homecoming since the Second World War, the true test of our patriotism is whether we will serve our returning heroes as well as they’ve served us.

    And thus she transforms a long-form critique of Bush’s failures concerning the VA and McCain’s recent refusal to rectify that failure into a full-on assault on anti-War protesters. It is just plain wrong-headed and dishonest.

  51. 51.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    What happens if something happens to McCain? Its not too improbable. Who would replace him? Huckabee or Romney?

    To quote someone else: His name is Ron Paul, son.

  52. 52.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    I didn’t even understand her interpretation. I’m probably not stoopid enough

    She’s basically saying that Vietnam war protesters (also todays Baby Boomers) were correct or noble in blaming the soldiers for Vietnam and that somehow Obama was dissing them in his statement of support for VV and stating the error of blaming the troops for the war during that period. And hence suggesting that Obama might be more pro war than he says, sort of like a Republican. At least that’s my take on it.

  53. 53.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    She’s basically saying that Vietnam war protesters (also todays Baby Boomers) were correct or noble in blaming the soldiers for Vietnam and that somehow Obama was dissing them in his statement of support for VV and stating the error of blaming the troops for the war during that period. And hence suggesting that Obama might be more pro war than he says, sort of like a Republican. At least that’s my take on it.

    This is not correct. The thrust of her argument is that the image of anti-War protesters spitting on returning soldiers and calling them, as Rambo lamented, baby killers is a myth or, in any event, wildly over reported. It is the case, so far as I have been able to discern, that these kinds of stories are less then reliable, so she is right there. On the other hand, the speech does not attempt to throw boomers under the bus, as she suggests. Rather, Obama seeks to recognize the myth’s power in an aside, in order to cast the current administration and McCain as unpatriotic because they will not fully fund the VA. It is of a piece with Obama’s earlier insistence that a flag-pin-wearing politician is not a patriot. His position is, to quote Elvis Costello, that actions speak louder now than words.

  54. 54.

    Bill W.

    May 12, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    CNN on Sun:

    “[T]he Clinton campaign’s search for damaging information and its hope that such information exists continues, according to knowledgeable sources.”

    Gives new meaning to “in case something happens.”

  55. 55.

    cleek

    May 12, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    so, she has created a strawman in the shape of Obama, accused it of badmouthing these mythical people who attacked returning soldiers, then sicced her attack dogs on it because those mythical people don’t really exist ?

    i’m sure Hillary would be proud.

  56. 56.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    This is not correct. The thrust of her argument is that the image of anti-War protesters spitting on returning soldiers and calling them, as Rambo lamented, baby killers is a myth or, in any event, wildly over reported.

    As for the spitting, as far as I know there are no confirmed cases of that. As for the other stuff, I was there dude, a soldier during that period and experienced it for myself. It wasn’t everybody blaming soldiers for the war and accusing them of being “baby killers” but it was pervasive, especially those our own young age at the time.

    from Jeralynn

    In other words, Obama intends to battle the war-hero McCain by throwing us under the bus.

    The “us” are war protesters now baby boomers Obama was alluding to. Maybe he should have said not everyone was involved with mistreating the troops and maybe Jeralynn was not one who did. But it is unmistakable what she’s referring to.

    Regardless, whether some protesters were abusive, and I think everyone can agree some were, they do not justify Obama’s remarks today.

    It was more than some and Obama’s remarks are common opinions held by many politicians left and right and are nothing new.

    As for the correlation with VA funding and Mccain, I’m not sure where that was in the article.

  57. 57.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    so, she has created a strawman in the shape of Obama, accused it of badmouthing these mythical people who attacked returning soldiers, then sicced her attack dogs on it because those mythical people don’t really exist ?

    Yes, this is correct. The approach is wrong-headed because it undermines any legitimate criticism Jeralynn may or might chose to make of Obama and dishonest because she has to transform Obama’s speech into something it was not.

    As to Hilary being proud. Let us not transform the failures of a candidate’s supporters into a candidate’s failures.

    You know my mom went back to university in 1968 and faced a bunch of crap getting a job, indeed, my mom faced a bunch of crap getting back into university in the first place, and at least one of my sisters, actually both, faced the crap of gender-based family employment realities. Both, in other words, took “time off” to raise the kiddies and each now has to work ten years longer than their husbands. Women have a legitimate complaint about gender bias. And much of the media, for example Chris Matthews, are members of the he man women haters club (see Spanky and Our Gang). Hillary Clinton has been screwed by this tendency.

    On the other hand, the response of her supporters has been less than up lifting.

  58. 58.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Nightjar,

    You might reread my post in which I agree with all you say.

    As for the correlation with VA funding and Mccain, I’m not sure where that was in the article.

    It may not be in the article but Obama said:

    But it doesn’t have to be this way. Not in this country. Not if we decide that this time will be different. There are many aspects of this war that have gone inalterably wrong, but caring for our veterans is one thing we can still get right. When I arrived in the Senate, I sought out a seat on the Veterans Affairs Committee so I could fight to give our veterans the care they need and the benefits they deserve. We fought to make sure that the claims of disabled veterans in Illinois and other states were being heard fairly, and we forced the VA to conduct an unprecedented outreach campaign to disabled veterans who receive lower-than-average benefits. I passed laws to get homeless veterans off the streets and prevent at-risk veterans from getting there in the first place. I led a bipartisan effort to improve outpatient facilities at places like Walter Reed, and slash red tape, and reform the disability process – because recovering troops should go to the front of the line, and they shouldn’t have to fight to get there. I passed laws to give family members health care while they care for injured troops, and to provide family members with a year of job protection, so they never have to face a choice between caring for a loved one and keeping a job.

    And then pointed out that

    I have great respect for John McCain’s service to this country and I know he loves it dearly and honors those who serve. But he is one of the few Senators of either party who oppose this bill because he thinks it’s too generous. I couldn’t disagree more. At a time when the skyrocketing cost of tuition is pricing thousands of Americans out of a college education, we should be doing everything we can to give the men and women who have risked their lives for this country the chance to pursue the American Dream.

    So, it would seem, that he accuses McCain of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

  59. 59.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Nightjar,

    You might reread my post in which I agree with all you say

    Ok jasper, my bad then, this is what happens when attempting to analyze the average HIlbot frame of mind. Personally, I’m going try to not try from now on.

  60. 60.

    t jasper parnell

    May 12, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    HIlbot frame of mind.

    I am neither a Hilbot nor an Obamaniac. Obama’s point is clear and the errors of J’s interpretation are equally so. I would hope that my exegesis of both Obama and J rests on what they said and not what I wish that they had said. He castigates the current administration because it refuses to fully fund the VA, J misreads this as an attack on anti-War protesters. This seems to me to beyond dispute.

    TalkLeft is filled, it seems to me, with nonsensical claims about what Obama said. However, I understand that women and some feminists are sickened by the crap from a variety of commentators Consequently, I would argue that the pro-Hilary camp fall into errors of judgment based on the misogyny that always already circulates in American political discourse, ditto Obama and racism.

    Nontheless and speaking for myself only, I support Obama; however, I understand without supporting those who support Hillary.

  61. 61.

    nightjar

    May 12, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    Consequently, I would argue that the pro-Hilary camp fall into errors of judgment based on the misogyny that always already circulates in American political discourse, ditto Obama and racism.

    This is true. My complaint with HC supporters at this point is what I see as Purposeful and even corrupt notions on the primary process and following the rules everyone agreed to, even if they may be in need of modification after the primary. And trying to smear Obama because he follows the rules and has fashioned his campaign successfully within them. This is why Hillary is behind. She ran a coronation campaign to end on supertuesday and disregarded caucus strategy altogether. When it didn’t happen as planned the HC camp set off on a scorched earth path to make up for their disarray which has brought us to the sorry state of affairs we’re in. She didn’t lose because of inherent sexism, no more than Obama is winning despite inherent racism. He just ran a smart intuitive state to state campaign and that’s why he won. She didn’t.

  62. 62.

    Chuck Butcher

    May 13, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Regarding Hillary staying in the race, assume for a moment that she has some honor; her supporters have contributed heavily, worked for the campaign, voted for her, etc, etc, etc, so maybe they deserve to have their campaign played out. I don’t like Hillary, I like voters, this has been close and it should be played out.

    For sake of accuracy, this thing is over with a vote at the Convention, until then it is probablys or there’s enoughs or… There should be a point in early June when it is known how it will play out barring disasters.

  63. 63.

    Brachiator

    May 13, 2008 at 12:49 am

    Plus, her staying in the race is what democracy is all about.

    Nonsense. Nobody is suggesting that Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee re-enter the GOP contest just so that they can stagger across the finish line.

    Senator Clinton has lost the contest by every way that the party has defined success. The only reason that she is persisting is so that she can use the magnitude of her projected win in WV to push the idea that the Democratic Party rules (which she previously signed off on) should be revised so that she can be declared the winner.

    Meanwhile, Senator Clinton and her surrogates are hard at work pushing the idea that everyone should be kind to her, and that any critique of the Clinton campaign is “kicking her while she is down.”

    But keep in mind that the same Senator Clinton who is now claiming that the media and Obama supporters are hurting her feelings is the same Senator Clinton who claims that only she is tough enough to fend off attacks by the GOP, and who sneers at any complaints about unfairness by Obama supporters because, after all, politics is supposed to be bare knuckle.

    Look for Clinton to work the media hard after these next primaries, complete with dirty tricks and smarmy attacks.

    The only antidote is to knock her off her game by emphasizing that she has already lost and is only making herself look bad by overstaying her welcome, particularly when she and her husband should be out there supporting Obama’s campaign.

  64. 64.

    cleek

    May 13, 2008 at 6:04 am

    As to Hilary being proud. Let us not transform the failures of a candidate’s supporters into a candidate’s failures.

    i think she already exhibits these same failures.

  65. 65.

    grandpajohn

    May 13, 2008 at 7:44 am

    So, it would seem, that he accuses McCain of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

    And if the media and pundits were to actually research his record of talk versus votes and flip flops they would find that it is a a perfectly valid accusation . McSames entire history in office has been one of all talk no walk, straight shooter indeed, except he shoots blanks

  66. 66.

    1jpb

    May 13, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Was this the Hardball when Hagel was discussed as a VP for BHO, as was noted at dKos:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/12/174641/716

    In theory, it seems like Obama/Hagel would be hard to stop in November. Of course I do realize that there are issues, not the least of which would be Hagel’s desire (or lack there of) to participate in a way that makes Ds comfortable with his R background.

  67. 67.

    Ken

    May 13, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Crystal Dawn, John still reads Andrew Sullivan, so give him a break if he has trouble figuring out the who is really saying what. John has been making alot of progress these past 18 months, so cut him some slack.

    Ken

  68. 68.

    JC

    May 13, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    something major is unearthed about Obama that would derail his candidacy (a videotape surfaces of him doing cocaine off the nipple of a teenage boy while Imams chant the Koran and organize a gun running organization for Hamas and Al Qaeda)

    This is why I come here – no bullshit straight talk, delivered with a comic flair, as I spew my Coke on my monitor, from laughing my a** off.

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