Obama excoriated absentee fathers during his father’s day sermon today in a speech that sounded eerily like Laura Ingraham, minus the batshit lunacy:
“Too many fathers are M.I.A, too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes,” Mr. Obama said, to a chorus of approving murmurs from the audience. “They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.”
Accompanied by his wife, Michelle, and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, who sat in the front pew, Mr. Obama laid out his case in stark terms that would be difficult for a white candidate to make, telling the mostly black audience not to “just sit in the house watching SportsCenter,” and to stop praising themselves for mediocre accomplishments.
“Don’t get carried away with that eighth-grade graduation,” he said, bringing many members of the congregation to their feet, applauding. “You’re supposed to graduate from eighth grade.”
“But we also need families to raise our children,” he said. “We need fathers to realize that responsibility doesn’t just end at conception. That doesn’t just make you a father. What makes you a man is not the ability to have a child. Any fool can have a child. That doesn’t make you a father. It’s the courage to raise a child that makes you a father.”
I have long respected Obama’s unhesitating willingness to say what might be a hard truth for some to hear, particularly when he does so directly to that audience (Note: I’m not sure how many absentee fathers were in Apostolic Church of God on Father’s Day). To me this is further evidence he knows his audience reaches larger than to the group he is speaking to. I also think this is another dog whistle to evangelicals. While I don’t think Obama will take this demographic, he may be able to siphon off enough of them to negate their advantage in erasing his huge leads in young voters and other groups.
Third Eye Open
The more I hear Obama, the more he sounds like Chris Rock…except for that part where Mr. Rock wishes he could join the KKK, so that he “could do a drive-by from here to New York”–which is funny, but prolly would give some people the vapors.
demimondian
I do think that this is an interesting peice of dog whistle politics. The tough truth is that ninety percent of all male humans can knock a girl up, and that doing your part to raise the kids is what makes you a real man. That’s a message which applies no matter what color your skin is. It’s a dog-whistle to intimate that African Americans or Latinos or other beige folks need to hear it more than the rest of us do.
Do I think that Barack Obama is acutely aware of this? Oh, yes, indeed. Do I think the reporters who are dealing in stereotypes in reporting his sermon are? Not so much.
null pointer exception
I love what he said about 8th grade graduation parties. As someone who grew up in India, it never fails to amaze me how much ado is made about even the smallest ‘achievements’ of children in the US. He is right. You are supposed to graduate from 8th grade.
srv
After AIPAC, I think there’s going to be a lot of dog whistling this year.
Not sure how 8th graders who didn’t have a dad and didn’t make it to the sex ed class that focuses on abstinance are supposed to grow up and become responsible. Just another non-voting block that is easy to pillory.
Next up, welfare moms?
ChiBri
Laura would have made a point about how it is the mother’s responsibility to ensure the father plays an active role in the child’s life or some other such nonsense.
Alex
I saw parts of this speech on CNN today…the anchors were busy dissecting whether or not Obama was “sincere” or if he was just pandering to “angry white men” who want to see black people scolded. Ugh.
VC71
As an attorney presenting child support collection contempt hearings daily before the Court, I can only say “Go Obama Go!” to his comments. Perhaps one of the few remarkable sentences from the Bush administration is the “No Child Left Behind” phrase: “The soft bigotry of low expectations.” Why should any absent parent (and yes, I do take mothers before the judge for non-support) be exempt from paying support? Too often, society is willing to excuse the non-custodial parent from the responsibility of paying ANYTHING! Yes, the economy stinks and unemployment is increasing, but why shouldn’t the respondent in the case be expected to pay support? Poverty is terrible and no child deserves such a hard environment.
Just as Nixon had to be the one to go to China, Obama is the one to take on the issue of absent fathers!!!
greennotGreen
Isn’t it possible that this is less about dog whistles (“less”, not “not”) than about Obama’s own experience of growing up with his father absent? Add that to the economic disadvantages of a single parent home – I think he’s just telling it like he sees it.
Cain
I know that for Blacks this is one of the things they struggle against. Fathers not holding up their end of the deal when they get a girl pregnant. I suppose that is true of latinos as well.
They are so busy trying to come together as a fraternity that they’ve forgotten their other responsibilities. It’s something that needs to be said especially to deliquent fathers of shapes and colors.
To comment on the graduation thing, it’s a great setup. The school gets to make money from you by creating these damn ceremonies and of course it’s hard for you to refuse because the other kids will be there and you don’t want your kid to feel they’ve been left out. It’s just a way for schools to make money.
So yeah, what Obama said. It’s about fucking time someone stood up for real family values instead of faux issues like gay marriage. God.. it feels good to have a real leader and someone from my generation putting out the smack down because I know my generation is the biggest bunch of slackers ever. (39 years old, you figure out which gen I am :-)
cain
Mylegacy
Barack isn’t saying anything Bill Cosby hasn’t been saying for years. Now there are at least two voices in the wilderness.
Conservatively Liberal
I like it that Obama is not all about platitudes and such in the pursuit of votes. Yes, he does want votes and he works for them, but he also engages people in subjects that no other politician cares to address. Personal responsibility is a corpse on the roadside in America. Everything going wrong for someone is always the fault of someone else, never the fault of the individual in question.
There is a difference between a father and a biological father. The former is anyone who takes the time to care for and nurture a child of theirs or cares for another child as if it were their own flesh and blood. The latter is a sperm donor. They are polar opposites of each other. There are lots of sperm donors, but far fewer real fathers. Obama is right, and he is right to talk about it. We need to revive personal responsibility in our country, and we need to start with ourselves, our government and our politicians.
This country is a mess, from top to bottom. We need a leader, now. McCain will not lead, he is about as preprogrammed as a politician can be. Barack marches to the beat of his own drummer, and I happen to like his rhythm. McCain wants government to ‘make it all better’, and Obama lets us know that we have to do it for ourselves because he can’t do it by himself.
That is a leader.
Kevin Hayden
From my social service experience, it takes a responsible, loving father in a successful committed relationship to be a good dad. Or it takes a responsible loving father, a cooperative mother and an income sufficient to meet state standards to succeed at fatherhood.
I’ve seen no evidence that courage is involved at all.
Nancy Irving
I gotta say, I hate this Sistah Souljah shit.
But it will work, so I’ll put up with it. Yes, Only-Nixon-Could-Go-To-China can work for us.
Just don’t ask me to sit in the pew while it goes down.
jnfr
As a person whose father abandoned his family very early on, much as Obama’s father did, I appreciated this speech a lot, and think it goes way beyond race.
Jess
Well, speaking as a white person and the product of several generations of MIA fathers and disengaged mothers (from “respectable” families, no less), I just have to point out that this is not a function of race or class. And there are plenty of parents who are present in the flesh, but not in spirit. We should work on our own communities before we start pointing fingers at others’.
Tom in Texas
I intentionally left out any mention of race, because I do think this issue is far larger than any one demographic. My parents divorced when I was 9, so I can absolutely understand his heartfelt story. Having no male figure in my life absolutely left a hole in my heart that cannot be easily repaired.
gopher2b
Apparently, he’s also a Chris Rock fan since CR delivered this message about 7 years ago.
gopher2b
Apparently, he’s also a Chris Rock fan since CR delivered this message about 7 years ago.
Tom in Texas
I hear McCain is pretty hip too — he has all the Amos ‘N Andy episodes on Victrola.
rikyrah
Been having a debate about it; some folks aren’t happy with Obama about it.
Me?
I’m a conservative (small c) on this issue. This doesn’t describe my father or any Black man in my immediate family. I also know how lucky I am, because I know that he’s speaking the truth.
I get a bit irked at the criticism of Obama. He lived the abandonment of his father. And, his mother skipped out for a little bit; yes, she was working elsewhere, but to a kid..so, I see this as personal to him.
I get a bit irked by the criticism because people never say that Obama is wrong in what he says, just like they say that factually, Cosby is correct, but they don’t like his ‘ tone’.
I could give a crap about his ‘ tone’. Is he right or not?
Like I said, I’m a conservative (small c) on this issue.
AnneLaurie
Like Mylegacy, I immediately thought of Bill Cosby making these points in almost exactly the same words. Hey, maybe the “dogwhistle” here was Barack trying to reassure the television-watching white voter — who *doesn’t* love Dr. Huxtable and pudding pops?
Incidentally, Ted Rall predicted last year that, as the Gen-X product of an absentee father, one of President Obama’s first initiatives would be “Keep Dads At Home Or Else”…
Conservatively Liberal
My ‘father’ abandoned my mom and us six kids, all of us were under the age of 10. My mom had to carry the load without a cent of help from him, and she did it. I don’t hate him, but I can care less about him and when he passes it really won’t make a difference in my life. I talk to him on occasion, but I really don’t like him and he knows it. But I am polite and I leave it at that.
Obama knows firsthand what it is like without a father, and from my experiences I know I would never do that to my kids or my wife. I am here for them until the end. I wish more men were like that, but in the MeMeMeMe society of today, it seems that is asking too much of them.
Dave_Violence
That’s what I thought. …and good for BO to echo BC. Hopefully, more will listen.
Fred Ghansah
gopher2b: He mentions Chris Rock in the speech… I don’t know if it’s in the prepared remarks or off the cuff.
It’s important to note, people, that this is no Sister Souljah moment; he has been saying these same kinds of things for years. I know he gave a speech along the same lines in 2004, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d been saying similar things before that. This is not a political play – this is the real Barack Obama.
Josh
As someone who grew up with an abusive POS father I can get what Obama’s talking about. And while some on this thread are getting the vapors over what they perceive to be a dog whistle, I think they need to reconsider. Think about it…here we are on Father’s Day, and we have our candidate for president, a black man, a faithful husband and loving father, talking about fidelity and character to one’s family–which stands in marked contrast to John “I Left My Horribly Disfigured Wife to Shack Up With a Hot Young Blonde Beer Heiress” McCain.
Jorge
Obama has been making this point publicly since he wrote his first book in the mid-90s. The lack of any real historical perspective from the TV media is sad. As we’ve said before, being fair to them has less to do with uncovering truth and more to do with allowing the other side to state their talking points.
Karmakin
The problem with the whole thing is that it often points the finger in the wrong direction. Often times it points it as the popular culture for encouraging this, however, that’s not taking it down to the roots. The reality is that all of this stuff, all of this selfishness, all of this greed, is nothing different from that which is advocated by pretty much the rest of our society. It’s just taking a different, more lower class form.
I like Obama talking about his, because presumably, running for president as a Democrat, he’s going to help move towards an economy that respects work more as opposed to wealth. And that’s the long and the short of it.
I think that a lot of people don’t realize the outright hostility that exists in our society towards those in the lower working classes, and how that turns a lot of people off.
jake
Not all of them. The dickheads who’re only interested in human life until it has contact with the atmosphere are going to flee.
He’s also going to get blow back from some dudes who give the proud brotherhood of the penis a bad name. There’s at least one organization out there that thinks child support is cruel and unusual punishment. But I always think its funny when a guy in a $1,000 suit whines about how unfair it is that he had a kid and is now expected to pay for the care and feeding of the kid even though he no longer wants the kid. If they do it on national TV, I’ll make popcorn.
I guess some lesbians raising kids with a partner might be pissed but it was Father’s Day and women walk away from their families too, so … meh.
I’ll be interested to see what happens to the bill he an Bayh introduced. Years ago Henry Hyde (gag) had a great child support enforcement bill and no Democrat would touch it with a ten foot pole. I look forward to the Family Values Republicans coming up with reasons they don’t like this bill. More popcorn!
Regarding Obama’s speech and race (and dogwhistles), if you read or hear the entire thing you’ll find that no race gets a free pass, which is one way his speech differs from Cosby’s. Too bad the reporter couldn’t be arsed to go through the entire transcript.
mclaren
Other political analysts agree that Obama has an excellent chance of attracting as much as 40% of the evangelical vote.
Meanwhile, Novak laments McCain’s evangelical problem.
Looking good for November 2008.
4tehlulz
The comments at that Christian Post link show why 40% is a bit….high….There is no way 4/10 evangelical voters are going to vote for the Muslim abortionist Antichrist.
20% max., enough to make NC plausible, but that’s about it.
Bob In Pacifica
If you study biology you realize that the purpose of a male of any species is to perpetuate his genes. Males in certain spider species stick around after sex so that the female can eat them, the first meal of her pregnancy. That’s fatherhood, the ultimate sacrifice. On the other hand, fertilizing a lot of eggs is an excellent strategy when the father doesn’t have the capability to stick around and support his offspring and many of his offspring will probably die sooner than their competition. Salmon fathers don’t run early learning centers.
It’s easy to sermonize about how a father should take care of his children and be responsible for them. But if you actually want people to operate within the rules of society, then you make sure the same rules apply. You give those fathers the means (education and jobs and equal treatment under the law) to compete within the society.
None of this necessarily reflects on Obama other than he says what seems to be the obvious for political purposes. Better that he score points than McCain. But beyond the obvious rhetoric the minority communities that suffer from lack of fathers might be served with better jobs, programs to ensure more adults go to college, less people being sent to prison in drug wars, and the destruction of racism.
Nicole
Oh my… I just read some of those comments on the Christian Post article. Holy cow; these are the people who claim to follow Christ?
Check out the mouth-breather who felt the need to explain when he called Obama “black” he was referring to his soul. His evil, evil soul.
(Pause while I put my head down on my desk and weep for the country)
The most hilarious part of it was the post’s request at the bottom of the screen to:
“Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging Abusive, Spam, Offensive, Illegal, Racist or Libellous Posts.”
slightly_peeved
I think people playing “hunt the dog-whistle” are actually over-thinking the whole thing.
Who likes deadbeat dads? It’s like coming out for puppies and kittens, for crying out loud. It’s an issue that’s important to a lot of people, both in the African-American community and out of it, and he’s taking the popular position on it. Good politics, and good on him for bringing some attention to it, but I don’t think he’s playing to any narrower demographic than people who expect dads to take care of their kids.
4tehlulz
Without a “Select All” option, this is impossible.
PK
I listened to bits of his speech about fathers and while it was good I hated the “God this and God that” rhetoric. This is what the country has been reduced to because a bunch of dumb ass right wing loony republicans. Every politician has to babble on about God. I would question his sanity as a father if he is telling his daughters that they will be O.K because a mythical being up above is looking out for them.
4tehlulz
Paul L.
Zifnab
And that’s the joke, isn’t it? Poor white people jump on the saggy-pants, rap music, thug life bandwagon just like poor black people. But we consider poor white people the exception and poor black people the rule. So stereotypes emerge. With black people its a systemic culture of blah blah blah. With white people we just write them off as uneducated white trash.
4tehlulz
This just shows liberal reverse racism. The liberal actually takes effort to stereotype the black man, whereas he merely labels white trash as white trash and dispenses with them.
Mary
God forbid that someone mentions God while delivering a speech in a church, even though this practice predates the birth of the Republican party.
(Agnostic who doesn’t give a flying fuck about other people’s religious beliefs as long as they don’t try to control my life.)
jibeaux
I don’t think it’s a dog whistle. I agree with slightly peeved in that it is a) fairly straightforward — involved dads are a good thing; and b) actually a fairly popular tough love message with many Black audiences as far as I can tell. As noted before, Chris Rock and Bill Cosby are known for this kind of sentiment, and I’ve heard it from Marion Wright Edelman too. I don’t think they’re courting evangelicals. I think they’re concerned about Black families.
SGEW
Remember: Random internet comments do not constitute data on demographic opinion!
There are a lot* of younger (17-25 is the targeted age range, I believe) self-described “evangelicals” who are most decidedly not part of the deranged “OMG he’s a neegro mooslum terraist!” group. These are the “Joshua” Generation kids, who are (generally speaking) less racist, more “forgiving,” and much more open to “liberal” ideas (such as universal health care, fighting global warming, and programs for the poor). Many of them don’t even mind teh gay.
Obama’s making a concerted effort to reach out to that generation, and, by association, their friends and families.
The Jesus is in heavy play this election cycle . . . and not in the ways it has been before. This time, the actual christ-lover is a black Democrat! Evangelicals and other serious Jesus Juice drinkers** have a bit of a problem believing that McCain is a “real” believer, like George W. Bush. Or, apparently, Obama.
Fervent religious believers can tell when someone’s faking it.
*How many? Who knows! I’ve yet to see any legitimate studies [OneNewsNow polls do not count]. It’ll be yet another unknown factor going into November.
** I am, of course, stereotyping in a very rude fashion. All apologies, I’m sure.
demimondian
Re: dog whistles.
Look at it this way. I don’t think that Obama was dog whistling. I think that the people reporting on the sermon were dog whistling. Do people understand the difference? I think that Obama’s sermon was aimed at all of us, because failing to be a good father is colorblind — and there are lots of ways to fail to be a good dad, even if familias tuum corporem tuam habet.
That’s my point: that Obama is saying one thing, and that the press is hearing and reporting something else. In this case, the dog whistle is not where it normally is, which is kind of interesting, but it’s still very much there.
jake
They’re also capable of being complete assholes while riding the giant belt-buckle, country music, redneck pick ’em up truck.
The problem is the bobble-heads don’t venture into the rural ghettos to view the crime, the drug abuse, the housing that would make your hair stand on end and then fall out, the pregnant teenagers, the single moms with a half-dozen kids, and the people living on “assistance.” That’s welfare to you and me, the only difference being the people receiving assistance aren’t brown and get pissed if you call it welfare.
Sharon
The assumption that this is an issue for only lower class folks, black, white, or any other shade, is wrong. My family was comfortably middle/upper-middle class until my former husband left and took 2/3rds of our family income with. He was over $60,000 in arrears on child support after 10 years, and enforcement was always a joke. I was never on welfare, so we went without a lot, especially medical care, but we all made it. The reality for a lot of us is that society wants to penalize the single moms, especially if they’re on welfare, and let the fathers of those children skate.
Single dads raising kids are always “hereos”, to go to Michael’s earlier point about how overused that word is.
SGEW
Additional random thought:
There is, perhaps, a fine line between “dog-whistle” and “subtext.”
The Other Steve
This is so true.
ann
Cosby’s speech was not the same and he didn’t say it the same way. He also insulted mothers while Obama said mothers needed some help. He said it in a way people understand. This is also something everyone knows is very personal for him. He was speaking from the heart.
I’m a white woman and my brother is pretty much a shitty father to his son, even if he does have joint custody he doesn’t spend near enough time with him. It’s an issue for every race and background and I think Obama was saying that.
The people saying dog whistle on the teevee are just mostly crying because Obama can say it and they can’t.
afferent input
The thing is, Obama is 100% correct on this. And I say that as a card-carrying atheist from Seattle, as liberal as you can get.
Maybe it’s dog-whistle politics, but I say that we should see more of this. Too many of society’s ills stem from parents who F-ed up their kids because they’re to immature to handle the responsibility.
Obama is changing what “family values” means. It’s not about teh gays and abortion, or at least it shouldn’t be. That shit doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Instead, he focusing on the stuff that’ll have the greatest impact on making America better. He saying, “look, this is America and you have the right to do what you want. But we have the right to criticize behavior that makes our society worse off, and we’re going to do what we can to better our community.”
I think it’s great.
SGEW
Right on. Speaking of this sentiment, I think that this is the best thing I’ve read about the M.U.P. in quite a while (h/t Sully).
slightly_peeved
Point taken. If Obama said the country couldn’t stand pat and rest on its laurels, the press would immediately find a Pat and a Laurel to complain about it.
jake
Ayup. If you want to see the poorest of the poor and the richest of the rich united in a common cause,* go to a courthouse on the other “Father’s Day.” Once a month the cops round up a bunch of people who are in arrears on their child support and hold them until they can cough up bail (10% of what they owe last time I checked).
*Bitching about their evil spouses.
The Other Steve
Too often it’s used by politicians to point out what “They” are doing… rather than what “We” are doing.
I actually blame the Democrats for a good portion of it, as they worked hard to equate poor with being black, and anytime they spoke of poverty they only talked about black people. Yet the majority of those under poverty in this country are caucasian.
They made it so easy for the Republicans to use it as a wedge issue, because it was those “other” people.
Dennis - SGMM
I wonder how many of the troops enduring endless re-deployments are parents. The day-to-day business of being a family can become very difficult and confusing for all when Mom or Dad is gone for a year or more and then they’re home and then they’re gone again. I speak from experience as a military brat. It’s tough on everyone in the family. I’m not saying that it’s anywhere near as tough as having an absentee father to be sure. It’s just sad that a arrogant and short sighted administration has inflicted these absences on so many families when it didn’t need to be that way.
PK
Yes and when that someone is nominee for the president of the United States it is a problem. And the practice may have predated the republican party, but the current republican party can claim ownership of it. The last 7 yrs have been nothing but jesus this and jesus that and every politician has jumped on the God bandwagon.
I am actually a religious person, but have nothing but contempt for politicians and their God talk.
bootlegger
In central Kentucky all the shaded kids have fathers running around. In Appalachia poverty and welfare are pale skinned and so are the absentee fathers.
In terms of sheer numbers there are far more pale skinned dead-beat dads in the US.
jibeaux
Well, why is that a problem? I don’t particularly care whether the president is religious or not, but an atheist or agnostic candidate has less chance of getting elected than a religious Eskimo lesbian handicapped dwarf, IMO. It isn’t a religious test for office, it’s just what voters want.
Chris Johnson
I gotta say, this Obama speech and the talk about it makes me unhappy. That’s because I’m a divorced guy.
I have not seen my stepkid for over a year, and it still torments me. I filed for divorce and set that up because my ex-wife flipped out and ran off across the country to her mother’s, taking her kid. She has a nasty abuse history from before I was around, and I’m sure I wasn’t able to be reassuring enough to overcome that. I did try. But she was waiting for me to go nuts and hurt her ‘like everybody else’ or like ‘all men’ or whatever was in her head, and eventually she couldn’t wait any longer and was compelled to act as if I had.
I hugged this kid goodbye as they left on a made-up pretext. I tried to give my ex a cozy blanket but she waved it away as if I was proposing to smother her with it. Off they went, given a ride to the train station by the child’s real father whom we’d built an okay relationship with. And once she was away, she freaked out completely and began insisting that since she had run away, I was going to hunt her down- and kill her.
Her mom bought it- that’s what moms are for I guess- and that was scary as her mom is smart, tough and wealthy. I had no choice but to seek divorce, and my ex had her kid’s real father strip basically everything out of our house. Nothing about ‘dividing’ or ‘living as you’d been accustomed to’, she wanted major appliances and stuff. I went along with everything I could sensibly go along with, to help the kid’s father be positioned in such a way that he could have a relationship with his child, as he was terrified they’d disappear one more step and leave him as well.
At one point I’m told the kid made a remark (to a friend of his whose father is my friend) that Chris was divorcing ‘us’. His mom apparently corrected him but I’m not sure how much sense it all would make to what was then a seven-year-old. I’d lived with him for more than half his life. What was left of his room (his mom didn’t ask for the bed I gave him or the rug my mom crocheted for him) is going to stay here forever. On the other hand I’m storing stuff in it because it will be a lot of years before he’s allowed to look me up and hear my side of anything. I have no legal right to anything about this kid.
Father’s Day has become a world of hurt for me and I’m glad it’s over- and I don’t think my ex is unique, quite. She is the product of her background and when we come from histories that are shattered by people’s inadequate parenting, when we are set up to fail and learn through attrition, we perpetuate it.
Maybe it’s not in the cards for me to be the person Obama would have me be, but I tried my meager best until it was literally impossible to try any more. The mention of a cooperative mother is dead-on. This is modern America and you cannot assume that. I think my situation differs only by degree.
When you’re teaching someone who didn’t have ideal parenting themselves, to parent, it’s like training a puppy- you want to punish mistakes but not shoot the dog. Maybe I am simply the scariest man in the world, scary even when I’m not a bit angry or anything, but as a parent I’m still a dead dog now, with no chance of changing that.
So- dammit, Obama, remember that some people are doing their best and need teaching, not scolding.
Xenos
I am in your family values forum drinking your milkshake…
The Moar You Know
“Sistah Souljah shit”
Most excellent trolling.
You try having an absentee dad and see how you like it – I’m willing to bet you’d be saying something in public about it too.
flyerhawk
Chris,
All I can say is that I am CERTAIN that Obama was not referring to your situation.
You clearly made every effort to support a child that wasn’t even yours. I’d imagine that Obama would laud you as an example of doing the right thing.
I realize that people have a tendency to lump everyone together but there are certainly many examples of fathers, and mothers, not being involved with their child’s life due to real world obstacles.
I used to volunteer for a children activity center in the Bronx. I’d say at least 70% of the children were being raised solely by the mother(Note: in some cases the blame should be squarely placed on the mother).
That is a major problem and what Obama was addressing.
PK
It has very much become a religious test for office. Obama is facing problems with a bunch of voters who think he is a muslim. The republicans have spread these rumors for a reason. I don’t care what the religious beliefs of a president are either, but I think anyone who wants to be elected has to do the God talk, and that is the republican contribution to the country.
Obama said that he tells his daughters that they would be O.K as long as God was looking out for them. Well wasn’t God looking out for the people of New Orleans or the people effected by the floods in Iowa? This sounds more like Pat Robertson and Hagee talk. And of course I don’t believe that Obama thinks like those two nut jobs, but it is sad that even a sane and rational person has to go down this road in order to get elected.
J. Michael Neal
Good grief. Yeah, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that people shouldn’t make arguments based upon why they think what they do. There are a lot of ridiculously defensive liberals on the subject of religion.
J. Michael Neal
No, it is not. A religious test for office is a restriction of who can be on the ballot. Voter preference is not such a test.
w vincentz
Just my two pennies worth…
Fatherhood should NEVER be viewed as a burden, a trap, nor a responsibility to be avoided.
The children become less for the lack, as does the Daddy.
When fathers step up, the children gain, and the fathers even more so.
My point is how fatherhood is viewed.
As a Dad, all I can say is that all the hours I spent at Little League games, or Scout camp, or horse riding lessons, or just helping with homework…my sons turned out the way that their Dad is very proud of them.
Being a father to the best that one can be has rewards.
Good ones (results) for the children, and even better ones for the father.
Get involved with your kids!
Visceral
This is also a black conservative thing: elements of the black community have been saying these things for more than 100 years. They attack contemporary black culture, especially the hip-hop/thug subculture, and push blacks to better their situations instead of in their minds prodding white people to do it for them. They get a lot of flak because much of what they say mirrors old and new racist stereotypes about black people, as well as creating a constituency for conservative policies that are widely viewed as “white”.
Tom in Texas
I just don’t agree that this is identical to Cosby’s statements. While Obama did reference the effects of a lack of fathers on the AA community, he also referenced the lack of a father on his own life in Hawaii. The criticism he leveled was not targeted at one race. It was broad, and intended to be so. Cosby’s message was specifically intended for black audiences. I’m not saying that Cosby was wrong, or that people should discount it, but he was going after a very small group of poor parents. Obama is being far more general in his critique.
Redleg
Just another example of elitism from Obama. How dare he suggest that good Americans need more than an 8th-grade education?
OriGuy
At the time of the writing of the Constitution, several states had laws that prevented Jews or Catholics from being office-holders. The UK did not allow Catholics to hold office until arout 1820. Of course, an atheist or Muslim would be unthinkable.
jj
I’ll make this short since everybody has pretty much covered most of salient points.
Re: Fatherhood and the black community (I can’t speak for Latinos but it seems to be less of problem in that community)
I’ll sum it up in one word. Credibility.
Obama has it. Chris Rock has it. Bill Cosby does not.
Obama can call attention to the issue because he is leading by and example and thus, has moral authority on the issue – meaning he appears to be a good father.
Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam take a similarly stern stance on absentee fathers in the black community and again, their moral authority in the lends them a lot of credence on this matter.
Chris Rock can call attention to the issue because quite frankly, Chris Rock could make you laugh at almost anything – even “traditionalist” (I hesitate to call them conservation for the baggage the title carries) political views. He is also a committed father from all reports.
Bill Cosby has no moral authority. He is known womanizer and percieved to be a shitty father in many circles. Nobody wants to hear embittered sermonizing from some asshole who can’t even keep his own kids out of rehab, no matter how sentimentally we may view him.
I’m just sayin’
SGEW
I second this, vociferously. I hate Bill Cosby. He’s a jerk. I worked with him once (audio tech), and I discovered that his widespread reputation as “the biggest asshole in showbiz” is well deserved. Motherfucker makes actual prima donnas look like selfless volunteer workers (and yes, I have worked in Opera too).
Screw that guy.
Church Lady
I personally applaud his Father’s Day speech on the responsibility of fatherhood, but where was he on Mother’s Day? Why doesn’t he address the issue of the women who make the absentee father possible? He, along with each and every one of us, should adress the issue of unwed motherhood and its ramifications on our society as a whole.
It is hard to discuss without it taking on a racial slant. Yes, unmarried white women do have children. However, statistics show us that the unwed birth rate for minority women is much, much higher, as is their poverty rate. Why is that? Why is it not unusual to see an unwed black woman with three or four children, each fathered by a different man? Is is cultural? I do not understand why any woman would want to have a child, much less multiple children, knowing that she not only does not have the financial means to support a child, but that she cannot depend on the father of that child to do so. I also do not understand why any man would want to knowingly be a sperm donor, while having no intention of providing financial support, much less the emotional support or guidance so integral to fatherhood.
While is is easy to blame the fathers, it should be acknowledged that much responsibility for the problems these children face is also on the shoulders of their mothers. Studies have shown repeatedly that the leading indicators of a future of poverty are having a child before the age of 21 and failure to obtain a high school diploma, yet it happens on a recurring basis each and every depressing day.
What is so difficult about slapping on a condom or taking a pill? Why not take the steps necessary to protect your future? Why take the risk of putting yourself, male or female, in a position that will severely impact your future? Why continue a cycle of poverty, when it is so obvious what some of the predominate causes are?
Locally, our Girls, Inc. chapter is working to alleviate just this problem. The girls are being well educated on the ramifications of becoming a teenage mother and, for those participating in the program, it seems to be having an impact. Not only are these girls less likely than their peers to become pregnant, but they also seem to be less likely to be sexually active as well, which is a good thing in light of the spread of STDs.
It seems to me that education is key, but that education cannot just come from outside sources. It needs to come from within the family unit as well, on a daily basis if needed. Until girls (at fourteen, fifteen or sixteen, I would hesitate to call them women) stop having babies, the cyle of poverty they are consigning both themselves and their children to will not abate, and that is a tragedy.
jibeaux
Just echoing J. Michael Neal, it is unfortunate of course that these people exist, but it is not unconstitutional to decide your vote based on stupidity, misperceptions, or fanatical religious views. It would be unconstitutional to require a religious affiliation in order to run for President. This is the only thing the “religious test for office” refers to. This gets bandied about a lot on lefty blogs, and it bugs me. There is plenty of unconstitutional behavior to go around lately, we don’t need to go lumping things in there that aren’t.
cain
Church Lady,
A man saying something like that especially a politician would not have his message heard in the lightning and thunder of people accusing him of sexism. Won’t do any good. He can speak up as a father, on father’s day. But to sermonize on Mother’s day? Yeah, that’s going to fly.
On the other hand, his speech can be applied to daughters too. Without a father to guide them and teach them so they have the wisdom to not fall into that trap.
I don’t know what is causing all this. Obama probably knows more than the rest of us since he’s been doing the community organizing in south side Chicago. He’s probably seen first hand about dead beat dads and a cycle of violence. That would account for his anger at the beginning of his speech. The man probably understands the urban landscape better than some of us.
cain
Church Lady
As an aside concerning Bill Cosby, my brother was the production coordinator for a studio in New York and worked with Bill Cosby a number of times on commercials. He also said Bill Cosby was the biggest asshole he ever met, and that he seemingly couldn’t stand kids. I guess it’s now three for three on the BJ comments.
Tom in Texas
Church Lady;
Mother’s Day fell in May. Don’t know if you recall, but there was a lot of chatter around that time that women would abandon Obama since their gal didn’t win and all. I don’t think antagonizing them would be a winning strategy.
Chris Johnson
Right, like comedians are a smart role model for parenting, or, well, being tolerable human beings ;)
So Cosby’s a monster. Whatever, he’s been very funny for a very long time (I’m thinking of his stand-up, not even his show).
Don’t expect too much, he’s a _comedian_ for crying out loud. It’s news if he ISN’T a horrible person.
Dennis - SGMM
I also heard that he’s a Muslim and he hates pudding.
HyperIon
but, but…Bill Cosby stuck around to be a father to his kids. And wasn’t that the main point of BHO’s talk (“AWOL”, “missing”, abandonement). Maybe next year we’ll get Part II about how to be present AND effective.
I personally know several good parents who have not be able to keep their offspring out of rehab. Again, not what BHO was talking about….
Shygetz
No one (I think) is saying it is unconstitutional. There is a de facto religious test for office, but it is not de jure, and that makes all the difference in the world. I don’t even think anyone is clamoring that there oughta be a law, but I am clamoring that society oughta change to eliminate this de facto religious test that is against the spirit of the Constitution, but not against the law.
The Other Steve
According to Ann Althouse, Obama is trashing feminism with this speech.
That is, if feminism means “We don’t need any men”, which I guess you would say if you thought feminism meant angry lesbianism.
Martin
Correct. As usual, the shit in the Bible that actually matters to people follows the social shit that actually matters to people. The raging hordes of homos that were going to ravage Everytown USA aren’t the concern anymore. The over 40 crowd are still fighting that war, but the under 40 crowd aren’t. Abortion is a 36 year settled matter, and the 20-somethings may not like it, but they don’t see it as a winnable legal battle. Instead, they have a more global view – and it is more about poverty, human rights, and so on.
And that 40% sounds about right to me. Remember, evangelical != fundamentalist. My neighbor is an evangelical who is just left of Castro on the political spectrum. The UCC folks are pretty damn liberal and they’re evangelicals. Their ad pretty much says it all…
jake
Ann’s still chatting with the squirrels in her backyard I see. Let’s just hope no one catches Obama eating onion rings. The poor dear will keel over dead.
4tehlulz
Anything after this phrase magically becomes tl;dr.
jj
Yeah, and I’m sure people are lining up to be the recipients of scolding, semi-coherent lectures on parenting from these people.
/snark
Hypatia
I’m not sure what’s so courageous about criticizing people with no power who make white folks nervous for political advantage. I didn’t like it when Bill Clinton did it and it’s just as distasteful now.
Phoebe
“It’s a dog-whistle to intimate that African Americans or Latinos or other beige folks need to hear it more than the rest of us do.”
not really – he said explicitly that there were much higher rates of single parenthood [which I guess = absent father] in the black population early on in the speech.
And regardless of whether this speech was meant to butter up a population different to the one he was addressing, the one he was addressing seemed to really dig it too.
THis reminds me of the Selma speech he gave – the black church audience dug it, but they got up and screamed when he talked about individual responsibility. They seemed to find it quite refreshing.
Phoebe
Hypathia, they DO have power. They have the power to stick around and raise their kids and read to them, blah blah blah – calling people powerless is insulting and it’s not true.
It’s not as though Obama says everything’s fine or that everyone’s got an equal chance at life – he doesn’t. He’s just saying that people need to make the best use of whatever chance they’ve got – he [and the government] is not the sole answer. Clinton liked to pretend otherwise, and probably thought otherwise. “It takes a President” etc.