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You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Site Maintenance / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  September 22, 20088:55 am| 46 Comments

This post is in: Site Maintenance

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Busy, so you are on your own for a while. This got my blood pressure up, though:

The financial crisis that began in the United States spread to many corners of the globe. Now, the American bailout looks as if it is going global, too, a move that could raise its cost and intensify scrutiny by Congress and critics.

Foreign banks, which were initially excluded from the plan, lobbied successfully over the weekend to be able to sell the toxic American mortgage debt owned by their American units to the Treasury, getting the same treatment as United States banks.

That is right. The Bush administration wants to take a trillion dollars from the American taxpayer, give it to Hank Paulson, and then shower it on foreign banks.

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46Comments

  1. 1.

    Jennifer

    September 22, 2008 at 9:21 am

    And who is the highly paid lobbyist of record for two of those most prominent foreign banks? None other than the “smartest man” McCain knows and his likely Treasury Secretary if elected, Phil Gramm.

    McCain is also up to his eyeballs with Rick Davis problems.

  2. 2.

    gbear

    September 22, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Hey, and here’s some ‘surprising’ news to add to that:

    Foreign Banks = Phil Gramm

    He’s probably the one who’s doing the lobbying.

  3. 3.

    cleek

    September 22, 2008 at 9:22 am

    would it be cheaper to just buy the bad mortgages ?

    find a new server yet?

  4. 4.

    Fwiffo

    September 22, 2008 at 9:23 am

    So, that $700,000,000,000 they’re gonna be dropping this week is $2500 per man, woman and child in this country. For a family of five, that’s ten times bigger than the stimulus check we got earlier this year.

    I wonder which would be a better ROI for the Fed — buying the shitpile and hoping you get some of your money back or sending every single person in the country a $2500 check and reaping the tax revenue from the economic growth. Hell, everybody who socks that cash away in their checking account might just solve the whole liquidity thing.

  5. 5.

    Napoleon

    September 22, 2008 at 9:23 am

    I guess that Rothschild endorcing McCain is paying dividends already.

  6. 6.

    Jake

    September 22, 2008 at 9:24 am

    We’d certainly pursue help from our European friends if the administration had any cachet with them. So much for that.

    Anyone catch McSame this morning being interviewed by Meredith Viera? Train wreck. She held his feet to the fire on Carly Fiona’s golden parachute from HP, among other stuff.

  7. 7.

    cleek

    September 22, 2008 at 9:24 am

    would it be cheaper to just buy the bad mortgages ?

    (find a new server yet?)

  8. 8.

    Punchy

    September 22, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Agreed that it is upon this term that the Dems could successfully punt this abortion. No Red-Blooded American(TM) would support our support for French and Swiss Banks.

  9. 9.

    Napoleon

    September 22, 2008 at 9:25 am

    I guess that Rothschild endorsing McCain is paying dividends already.

  10. 10.

    SnarkyShark

    September 22, 2008 at 9:26 am

    As a commentator on another blog pointed out-

    The Wall Street boys scream for a clean bill even as Phil Ghramm is tacking UBS on as an afterthought and Jacking the bill up even farther. It’s like Christmas and the playas are lining up to sit in Santa’sUnkie Hanks lap.

    More slaps in the face for the proles.

  11. 11.

    Stuck in the Fun House

    September 22, 2008 at 9:29 am

    I wonder why it took so long for these power hungry Hyenas to think of this.

    Officials made the changes two days after unveiling plans for an unprecedented intervention in financial markets. The change to potentially allow purchases of instruments such as car loans, credit-card debt and other devalued assets may force an increase in the size of the package as the legislation proceeds through Congress.

    That’s right, George W. Bush now wants to hold the lien on your vehicle. You better vote right and answer Excellent to pollster questions about how well dear leader is doing his job, or else is off with your car.

  12. 12.

    The Moar You Know

    September 22, 2008 at 9:30 am

    It’s RAPE TIME! Bend over, America!

  13. 13.

    Da Bombz Diggity

    September 22, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Well John, welcome to the Bush Administration’s “Shock Doctrine”. Naomi Klein already came up with the thesis, gave the proof, and supplied examples documenting this doctrine’s evolution and use throughout history including the Iraq War. This was designed to get your blood pressure up. Notice how Paulson, the Bush administration, some Republicans as well as most of the media keep telling us that there is no time to make revisions to a bill that could very well impact the economy for generations to come. Sounds familiar? We were told that the threat of Iraq to the US could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. We can’t let them control our emotions anymore. We need to focus and take the time needed to fix the financial markets without resorting to socialism for the rich. Naomi Klein explained on Bill Maher’s Real Time that it’s Christmas for CEO’s and investors (rich people) because their mistakes are being excused and their debts are being taken on by the government. I saw a guest on “Meet the Press” explain that we shouldn’t think about the millions of dollars that CEO’s and such have still acquired from these companies. They say that millions is chump change compared to the billions needed to fix the whole market. I say that every single cent matters and should be accounted for. People like him placed us in this mess anyway. I agree with Naomi Klein, if the Bush administration is going to become socialist they might as well go all the way and take over companies making great profits instead of only debts. “Nationalize Exxon.”

  14. 14.

    Lupin

    September 22, 2008 at 9:46 am

    From Black Adder:

    Father: I’m sad because, my darling, our poverty has now reached such extremes that I can no longer afford to keep us. I must look to my own dear tiny darling to sustain me in my frail dotage.

    Kate: But father, surely…

    Father: Yes Kate, I want you to become a prostitute.

  15. 15.

    Incertus

    September 22, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Bernie Sanders is all kinds of awesome. Makes me want to move to Vermont. Bill Nelson and Mel Martinez pale by comparison.

  16. 16.

    RSA

    September 22, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Here’s something ironic (not that we need more irony): You know how a particular strain of rightwingnut is always going on about liberals working to give up American sovereignty to the UN, to create a new world order? Apocalyptic, end of times stuff. Now that we see Paulson’s plan to have American taxpayers bail out foreign corporations with dealings in the U.S., it strikes me that you have a quite comparable situation: Conservatives (of the Bush-Paulson stripe) are working to give up American economic sovereignty to international corporations, with American taxpayers pretty much just changing the address on the checks they used to send to our government. And this isn’t a matter of shady, behind-the-scenes maneuvering. It’s on the front pages of the newspapers.

    If I were a tinfoil hat wearer, this would bother me. Hell, it bothers me even without the headgear.

  17. 17.

    Jon H

    September 22, 2008 at 9:48 am

    “would it be cheaper to just buy the bad mortgages ?”

    That’s exactly what they want to do. The bad mortgages, plus who knows what else.

  18. 18.

    Stuck in the Fun House

    September 22, 2008 at 10:13 am

    You know, it’s often hard to tell what John Mccain is for or against these days with all the daily flip-flopping. But I’m listening to him speak right now to a purely wingnut crowd in PA, and he is hawking his Immigration Plan like he’s at a dem rally advocating what MM calls “””shamnesty”.– Even to the point of criticizing Obama for offering a bill to essentially eliminate Mccain’s guest worker provision. Needless to say the applause was weak tea. And he may be Obama’s best surrogate today for creating more Obamacans.

  19. 19.

    Wayne

    September 22, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Here’s a real deal breaker: The inclusion of bad commercial real estate mortgages into the mix. This is where the real fraud will occur.

    Sec. 12. Definitions.
    For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
    (1) Mortgage-Related Assets.–The term “mortgage-related assets” means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

  20. 20.

    tavella

    September 22, 2008 at 10:22 am

    That’s exactly what they want to do. The bad mortgages, plus who knows what else.

    No, if we brought the bad mortgages we might at least make some of the money back. What a lot of people don’t understand is that we will be buying the bad tranches. If you just brought a bundle of mortgages that have gone bad, you might expect that you could renegotiate the loans or sell off the properties in others. Say, get 50 percent of your money back.

    But we’ll be buying the C tranches, which only get paid off when the A and B tranches are fully recompensed. And guess what? They’ll soak up all of that 50 percent of value. We will be buying solely the shit, the vapor.

    A 700 billion present to Wall Street, flat up.

  21. 21.

    Charity

    September 22, 2008 at 10:23 am

    This is fucking making me CRAZY:

    Since picking Sarah Palin as his running mate, John McCain has obliterated what had been a 34-percentage-point deficit in a poll of likely women voters on the question of which candidate has a “better understanding of women and what is important” to them.

    The two are now effectively tied, with McCain’s 44 to 42 percentage lead within the margin of error of the most recent poll conducted by pollsters Kellyanne Conway and Celinda Lake for Lifetime Television. In Lifetime’s July poll, women preferred Barack Obama on the same question by nearly three-to-one— 52 to 18 percent.

    In this latest poll, conducted Sept. 11-15, age remained a key determinant in response to the question about women’s concerns. Young women, ages 18-34, chose the Obama/Biden ticket as more empathetic to their needs, while women aged 35-64 went for McCain/Palin. Unlike black and Hispanic women, White women saw McCain and Palin as most understanding of their concerns.

    About one in four women who supported Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton in the primaries now said McCain and Palin have a better grasp of women’s needs than Obama and his running mate, Sen. Joe Biden.

    It’s a ridiculously small sample size, only 534 female likely voters, BUT STILL. What the FUCK has Palin said that makes women think she’s for them? Was she supporting rape victims by making them pay for their own rape kits? She hasn’t said ANYTHING in days because they hide her away so she doesn’t say something stupid!

    And her own campaign doesn’t even have enough faith in her qualifications to let her have a real debate with Joe Biden:

    At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

    McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

    Of COURSE she’s at a disadvantage. SHE HAS NO FUCKING QUALIFICATIONS.

  22. 22.

    Snail

    September 22, 2008 at 10:25 am

    This is totally off-topic (if the topic is the financial meltdown), but I really enjoyed this post from Derbyshire at the corner regarding religion.

    I find it interesting that such intriguing writing can come from such a fucking lunatic. And in an echo chamber like the Corner, I’m guessing it goes over like bad gas.

  23. 23.

    Joshua Norton

    September 22, 2008 at 10:31 am

    The Fed will be greeted as “regulators”.
    The bailout will pay for itself.
    Morgan Stanley has obtained yellowcake CDOs.

  24. 24.

    Jake

    September 22, 2008 at 10:33 am

    The Carly Fiona burn continues for McCain.

  25. 25.

    SGEW

    September 22, 2008 at 10:34 am

    I really enjoyed this post from Derbyshire at the corner regarding religion.

    Th’ Derb’s always been a nice voice of reason about religion . . . too bad he’s such a lying douche-bag on (almost) all other issues.

    I note that the Founders all believed in the Four Humors theory of human metabolism — a belief that led, in at least one case, to untimely death from excessive chirurgical bleeding. Fortunately they did not put that theory into their Constitution, so we are not bound by it. They did not put their religious beliefs in, either; so we are not bound by those, either, whatever they were.

    Hee. Mr. Derbyshire, tear down this wall!

  26. 26.

    Napoleon

    September 22, 2008 at 10:37 am

    . . poll conducted by pollsters Kellyanne Conway and Celinda Lake for Lifetime Television.

    Kellyanne Conway is a wingnut. Who is Celina Lake? In any event I think the poll results recently show that Palin’s choice has not helped McCain pick up women’s votes, which is all that counts at the end of the day. Also here in Ohio over the weekend I saw an Obama add directly attacking McCain on his plan to outlaw abortion even in cases of rape, so I think Obama is trying to set the record straight.

  27. 27.

    montysano

    September 22, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Yes, it seems this morning that the talking points have been sent out to the troops, and the winner is: the Community Reinvestment Act!

    Let me make sure I’ve got this straight: the Republicans have had the House and Senate 1994-2006 and the White House 2000-2008, and all during this time, they were helpless to intervene as some commie/DFH legislation from the Carter Years drove the economy into the ditch?

    FAIL. Please try harder.

    I’m no economist, but my reading still puts this on Phil Gramm’s Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which allowed credit swaps to exist outside of any oversight.

  28. 28.

    Scott H

    September 22, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley couldn’t turn their coats fast enough.

    Bernie Sanders‘s proposed surtax needs to be more in the range of 22%. I am also enjoying Bernie’s Green Mountain indignation.

  29. 29.

    SGEW

    September 22, 2008 at 10:47 am

    The Carly Fiona burn continues for McCain.

    Precious. A verbatim recap:

    “I don’t know the details of her severance package”

    “How can you not know?”

    “I know she was a successful business person.”

    Oh, Johnny boy. Are you not even trying anymore?

  30. 30.

    John S.

    September 22, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Bill Nelson and Mel Martinez pale by comparison.

    Bill Nelson is no Bob Graham and Mel Martinez is no Connie Mack.

    Our beloved sunshine state is ripe for a Senatorial purging.

  31. 31.

    Mino

    September 22, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Hello–Republicans aren’t going to pass this bill. Democrats will and then the Republicans can run against them on the issue.

  32. 32.

    SGEW

    September 22, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Our beloved sunshine state is ripe for a Senatorial purging.

    Nelson (D-Fl) voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

    Never forget.

  33. 33.

    Incertus

    September 22, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Our beloved sunshine state is ripe for a Senatorial purging.

    How does “Senator Robert Wexler” or “Senator Wasserman-Schultz” sound to you?

  34. 34.

    SGEW

    September 22, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Good lord. How fucked up is this? From the WSJ:

    To get in the debating mood, Republican John McCain will host a town-hall event and take a short nap. His rival, Democrat Barack Obama, will work out or shoot hoops.

    And to prepare, Sen. McCain will spar this week in mock debates with Michael Steele. Mr. Steele, the former lieutenant governor of Maryland and a prominent black Republican, will play Sen. Obama and use many of his speaking patterns, tactics and body language.

    I’m guessing it went like this:

    McCain: Hey, do we have a black guy that I can practice debating with?

    Advisor: Well, we have Michael Steele. He’s black.

    McCain: Can you have him shuck and jive so I can get used to it?

    Advisor: Sure.

    McCain: . . . Are you positive Alan Keyes can’t make it?

  35. 35.

    TenguPhule

    September 22, 2008 at 11:50 am

    It’s like Christmas and the playas are lining up to sit in Santa’sUnkie Hanks lap.

    Incorrect.

    It’s Christmas, but WallStreet is playing Santa and not wearing any pants.

    They want taxpayers to sit on their lap and pay no attention to Rudolph going up the chimney.

  36. 36.

    Incertus

    September 22, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Nelson (D-Fl) voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

    Never forget.

    And did so in a year when he was running against Katherine Fucking Harris. He could have stripped naked and run around Tallahassee screaming “Get the Jesus out of me!” and he’d have won that race.

  37. 37.

    Darkness

    September 22, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Lupin sayeth:
    Father: Yes Kate, I want you to become a prostitute.

    The scene that best represents my feelings is the one in Poltergeist where the older sister comes home and finds the paranormal attack destroying the house and the dead crawling up out of their graves and she screams: “What is happening?!?!?!” really really effectively. That’s where I’m at.

  38. 38.

    Lie baby, lie!

    September 22, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    At this point, considering the size and scale of this massive fuck up, does it really matter if we bail out banks in Mongolia that are foreclosing on yurts, and everyone else?

    To take my mind off our national sickness, I’m plastering my bedroom with smile face stickers and singing cheerful children’s songs. And to get it over with quicker, I’ve wired my entire portfolio to Hank Paulson, along with a card of thanks.

    I sure have a nice soup bowl … and a spoon too.

  39. 39.

    Paul L.

    September 22, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I noticed that Bill Maher did a Keith Olbermann this week and did not have anyone who would argue with him on his progressive echo chamber show.
    I also noticed this BS from Rachel Maddow who is being defend ed by Crooks and Liars for begin smeared/swiftboated because someone called her a Air America Lesbian.

    MADDOW: Still ahead, I’ll talk with Bill Maher about Governor Sarah Palin. He’s an independent. I wonder if she’s won him over to the Republican side.

    I expect Rachel will have a outraged story over the Witchhunt for the Palin email hunter.
    BTW, Anyone notice that Rachel Maddow and Ezra Klein look alike?

  40. 40.

    Paul L.

    September 22, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Correction:
    Palin email hacker

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    September 22, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Da Bombz Diggity Says:

    Notice how Paulson, the Bush administration, some Republicans as well as most of the media keep telling us that there is no time to make revisions to a bill that could very well impact the economy for generations to come. Sounds familiar?

    This is standard operating procedure for the Bush Administration. Bush presents himself, not the Congress, as the sole legitimate authority, and continually insists that the Congress hurry and pass his legislation, approve his nominees, bow to his will.

    This tactic was reinforced with the claims that a post 9/11 world required that regular checks and balances be suspended, and Executive branch authority be enhanced, but it is part of an overarching strategy to push a soft “country first” authoritarianism.

    The sad thing is that Democratic Party reaction to the bailout proposals clearly indicate that party leaders like Pelosi and Reid are totally out of their depth on this issue, and are as clueless as Sarah Palin, the poster child for ignorance of national policy.

    Instead of coming up with at least a counter proposal to the Bush plan, Pelosi and company just offer some bland pronouncement about the need for more oversight. But more than this, Pelosi and other leaders show that they just do not understand the ramifications of the bailout, and are bored by it, preferring to fall back on their narrow, pet ideas, such as adding an extension to unemployment benefits to Bush’s proposals.

    Even more puzzling, as with the FISA legislation, by signaling so early that they are willing to go along with the broad outlines of the president’s proposals, Pelosi and Reid cut the legs out of Obama. If he came out and flatly opposed the bailout, he would not only be seen as defying the Bush Administration, but also his own party leaders.

    Naomi Klein explained on Bill Maher’s Real Time that it’s Christmas for CEO’s and investors (rich people)…

    It’s always Christmas for some wealthy people, but these policies help a narrow band of the investor class. There are many well-off to extremely wealthy people who got screwed by the mortgage mess, and who will be screwed by the bailout.

  42. 42.

    chopper

    September 22, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    But we’ll be buying the C tranches, which only get paid off when the A and B tranches are fully recompensed. And guess what? They’ll soak up all of that 50 percent of value. We will be buying solely the shit, the vapor.

    exactly. yeah, these securities will totally make a profit down the line for the US taxpayer. of course they will.

  43. 43.

    Rick Taylor

    September 22, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    That is right. The Bush administration wants to take a trillion dollars from the American taxpayer, give it to Hank Paulson, and then shower it on foreign banks.

    I don’t really care so much specifically about this; it doesn’t seem any less outrageous than giving Paulson carte blanch to spend 700 billion dollars on his friends’ businesses how ever he pleases. I am surprised there hasn’t been more screaming from the nuttier more anti-foreigner contingent of the right wing.

    Frankly I don’t see how we could avoid us. Who is it, after all, who’s lending us that 700 billion dollars for Paulson to spend? Do you really think they’d continue to play along without being included in the largess? I honestly don’t see why they should.

  44. 44.

    Brachiator

    September 22, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Rick Taylor Says:

    Who is it, after all, who’s lending us that 700 billion dollars for Paulson to spend?

    Not foreign banks directly. The US is going to increase its debt ceiling by a trillion or so dollars. I presume that new treasury bills, available to domestic and foreign investors, including foreign governments, will be a result.

    Do you really think they’d continue to play along without being included in the largess? I honestly don’t see why they should.

    Any bank, foreign or domestic, that could find a chump to absorb their own losses, would be foolish not to play. But it does not follow that even indirectly bailing out foreign banks would be good for the American economy or American taxpayers. What leverage do we have on foreign entities to make them behave?

    The more that I look at this, the more it becomes clear that the “bailout to stabilize the financial markets” is little more than a giveaway with no significant return on the investment to the American people.

  45. 45.

    John S.

    September 22, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    How does “Senator Robert Wexler” or “Senator Wasserman-Schultz” sound to you?

    Personally, I like Wexler a lot, so Senator Wexler is okay with me.

    Wasserman-Schultz does not thrill me. Her reluctance to go after Republicans she considers “friends” I find particularly galling, especially when those friends are the Balart brothers and the odious Ross-Lehtnin.

    And did so in a year when he was running against Katherine Fucking Harris.

    When I called his office earlier I told them “I have supported Senator Nelson in both his elections, but he has made a number of decisions I am very unhappy with. If he capitulates on this bailout, he will not receive my vote next time.”

    I hope they got more calls to that effect.

  46. 46.

    Chris Hutcherson

    October 2, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Now that the Senate has passed the 700 billon bailout has Wall
    Streets destiny been sealed?

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