I am watching CBS Sunday Morning, and they are interviewing O’Reilly, and he said “The meanness of our discourse upsets me.”
I almost dropped my damned coffee.
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!
Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!
Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.
Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.
Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.
Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!
Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.
Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.
The lights are all blinking red.
Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.
I was promised a recession.
Black Jesus loves a paper trail.
The gop is a fucking disgrace.
“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”
Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll
Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?
Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.
Peak wingnut was a lie.
The revolution will be supervised.
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
The choice is between normal and crazy.
This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.
You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.
The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.
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El Cid
The meanness of our discourse is due to the secret conspiracy to make MSNBC’s ratings higher. O’Reilly alone recognized the threat to our sensible, moderate discourse. Shut up. SHUT UP!
Ned R.
Perhaps he regards it like a stomach upset, to be cured with Pepto-Bismol.
Rick Taylor
Hehehehehee. What was he talking about specifically?
SpotWeld
Well you have to keep in mind that "according to Bill" he’s only mean because "everyone else" is mean first. And also, when he’s being mean, he does it right and it’s obvious that he’s only joking when he says things like that.
mellowjohn
that’s because he thought he’d cornered the market on mean.
Laura W
I, too, was in the mosaic studio and also nearly dropped a vase I had in my hands, gosh darnit.
I believe I heard him say that Obama was not a bomb-throwing terrorist, would govern as a moderate (with Clinton as his governing role model, JFK as campaign role model?) and had run a brilliant campaign.
But I was standing over a huge open vat of tile glue at the time.
jcricket
You know, I want to embrace the policy of division. By that I mean dividing the country into Republicans and Democrats. Stories like this are silly political theater but remind me of how silly and vindictive Republicans have become at the fringes.
I’m 100% confident, judging by recent events, that if we "self divide" along political lines, Democrats will end up a 2/3rds or greater majority. And I’m fine if the crazification factor bleats, moans and embraces their inner wingnut. Let em move to Alaska and secede, for all I care.
JGabriel
In other news, Karl Rove decried the use of Republican dirty tricks, saying to Chris Wallace, "Ratfucking deeply saddens me. There’s just no place for it in an honorable democratic discourse."
.
burnspbesq
@Laura W:
What the O’Reilly audience will take from a comment like "Obama is not a bomb-throwing terrorist" is "Obama designs the bombs and chooses the targets, but he outsources the manufacturing and delivery."
jcricket
Is Bill a true believer or an opportunist like Limbaugh? I often wonder if people are just being theatrical, or if they truly believe their own hype. People like Hannity, Hewitt & Malkin are clearly dumb enough that they obviously believe their tripe.
Coulter and Limbaugh have mastered the art of pandering to their audience, but I’m not convinced they believe the swill they peddle.
Not saying being a wing-nut-for-pay excuses you, but it’s just interesting.
Although there was that video of O’Reilly flipping out when hosting Inside Edition many years back, so perhaps he really does have a persecution complex…
Pol Pot
Seeing this level of violence truly disturbs me.
TheHatOnMyCat
I didn’t realize that Billo was a BJ reader!
Jennifer
Putting that through the wingnut tranlatometer, "meanness" in this case means "why won’t you lie still while I’m kicking you?!?" See, it’s not "mean" for O’Reilly to berate the son of a 9/11 victim on-air, telling him among other things that "you make me SICK!!" – what’s mean is if the son of that 9/11 victim continues to tell him he’s wrong.
dww44
I, too, was watching CBS Sunday Morning when O’Reilly said that most people have judged him without actually watching his show, and, when they do, they change their minds. I tuned out PDQ. Lies I can do without. I confess that I don’t watch him, but to placate a very conservative relative, I did tune in a couple of weeks ago in the middle of the economic crisis. He had 2 attractive young female reporters (economics qualified supposedly) and when he tried to get them to agree that the markets were so volatile because people feared the election of Obama, who is a Marxist, and would be raising taxes, I just switched to the Daily Show for some comic relief.
I did learn one thing, however, and that was where all these friends and relatives who should know better get their talking points.
kommrade jakevich
I assume that when you say drop, you mean a horizontal "drop" that would have left a smoking hole in your teevee screen.
Sounds like Shrill is warming up the crowds for Persecution! The Musical.
These idiots have spent eight years acting like disagreement = attempted murder. Depending on what happens on the 4th any fReichtard who gets a funny look from a perceived LIEberul will become a martyr to the cause. Hell, even if McPalin win they’ll spend four years CONVINCED the mean ol’ big brown ghey Islamisocialists are going to rise up slaughter them. "CODE RED! My toilet backed up and the guy who came to fix it was named Ahmed! Or maybe Alan. Or possibly Mike. I don’t know, I was soooo scared! And when he left he smiled and wished me a "nice day." I know he saw my Sarah Palin shaped soap bars. And now my toilet is clogged again! CODE RED! CODE RED!"
tavella
Can I put in a request for people to spent less time responding to the trolls? A lot of threads recently have turned unreadable because they are larded with people responding to really stupid, obvious trolling.
Dave A.
John,
Given your support for Obama, I suspect that you were drinking a latte.
JenIA
Schuster laughs at Brad Blakeman, with Ari Melber joining in when he once again pushes the "dictatorship" argument–well, not a *real* dictatorship he says stupidly. Poor Brad, doesn’t want the blogs making a mockery of him AGAIN! "Take it easy Ari, don’t blog about this after we’re done and get your people a bee in their bonnet…"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNFbPEV0sIY
John Cole
@Dave A.: Actually, I was out of grounds, and was drinking instant.
Probably a good thing I dropped it.
Laura W
@burnspbesq: Well of course that is the most logical inference.
Genine
Almost?
Wow, I admire your control and dexterity.
I’m surprised it didn’t "drop" all over the tv screen. But then, televisions aren’t cheap.
Atanarjuat
You may want to shoot the messenger, but the message remains manifestly true.
The meanness of American political discourse should be upsetting to everyone. We could all benefit from being decent to one another and being respectful of everyone’s views without resorting to slander or malice.
Country First.
Cruel Jest
@jcricket: Limbaugh, Coulter and Savage are worse by far. They are actually intelligent in their own way and have for whatever reason decided that verbal assassination and lying was good for their bottom line. It’s a strategy for fame and wealth and it’s disturbing that anyone listens to them.
Malkin, O’Reilly, Hannity, et al, are just morons that should be treated like pinatas.
John S.
Bill O’Reilly beat you to it. You’ll have to run faster next time.
MattF
I think we’re seeing what DSM-IV would define as a dissociative disorder.
Garrigus Carraig
I’m still tryin’ to figure out what Bill O’Reilly was doing on CBS Sunday Morning. Did somebody cancel? Wouldn’t dead air be superior?
cleek
@tavella:
seconded
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
You first. It was your president who divided this country with "You’re either with me or against me". It was YOUR side that was making death threats to me eight years ago because I refused to shut up and go away. I treated people with respect, I got no respect back.
McCain and Palin are inciting violence, and Republicans want to believe we’re not "Real Americans".
You own this, whether you like it or not. You put down your weapons, then I’ll put down mine.
Oh, and let’s not forget the millions of times that Republicans have suggested that liberals should just leave the USA. Prior to this past year, I would never suggest such a thing, but, I see no reason to remain civil in that case.
Truce? You first.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
Brad Blakeman is THE tool of this election. Every time I see him on MSNBC, I know that some pearls of shit are about to tumble from his lips.
Here’s the whole segment.
kth
Not many CBS Sunday Morning viewers are likely also to be O’Reilly factor viewers, so that’s how O’Reilly feels safe saying something so patently at odds with the way he lives. Also O’Reilly’s inability to feel shame.
jrg
If the meanness of our discourse upsets O’Reilly, he needs to spend some time getting to the bottom of it. He could start by searching the archives of Media Matters or Orcinus, or even archives of his own show.
I’m sure his viewers would rather him nutpick through downmodded comments on Dkos, though, because we all know that the source of all meanness is anonymous comments left on troop-hating, treasonous, blame-America-first, anti-Christmas, far left blogs.
That, and a "national underground network" of violent lesbian gangs aimed at criminal activity and recruiting girls into the homosexual lifestyle. Thanks for your honest and insightful reporting, Bill!
Ed Marshall
Ella in NM
Hey, that’s nothing, John.
You didn’t have to endure a week long visit with your formerly completely sane in-laws from rural Pennsylvania, wherein, every time you left the living room, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck or Bill-O was somehow blaring from your television set; or where, on the 2nd of 5 days of absolute hell, they informed you–ney, blurted out— that they would NEVER vote for Obama because he is a Muslim and a terrorist supporter. Then, when you helpfully pointed out that they might want to get their news from somewhere other than FOX, you were then challenged to show them one single time that Bill O’Reilly has ever been wrong.
Forget dropping a little cup of coffee. I literally had to leave my own God-damn house for the rest of the evening, because for the first time in my life I used the F-word towards my father-in-law.
AkaDad
I bet O’Reilly will turn a new leaf, and from now on, will treat Obama with the utmost respect.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Ella in NM: I empathize. My mother decided 15 years ago that the Limbaugh way of shouting down anyone he disagrees with is how normal people have conversations. I rarely speak with her anymore. It extends beyond politics and has infiltrated her entire life view. My brother still tries to reason with her, thinks she can be ‘saved’ He’ll figure it out eventually, I hope, for the sake of his blood pressure.
I’ve seen it in other families, but still don’t understand it, how you choose these people over relationships in your own family? Do they think if they met them on the street they’d buy them a beer? You heard O’Reilly, he has body guards. Yeah, he’s a regular joe.
kommrade jakevich
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII: No, no, no. You see, the horrible LIEberuls started it when they had the audacity to quietly insist the Bill of Rights also applied to them. If those who lack Caucasian Christian penises had only waited quietly until the Caucasian Christian penis owners were ready to share their rights (a resource more precious and limited than oil, don’tchaknow), we wouldn’t have all this … unpleasantness.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
We knew it would happen…
McCain’s campaign is using Hillary’s primary vote of confidence of McCain against Obama in robocalls.
John McCain, you’re not human!
plus C
It seems that kids are once again fair game in this election.
Ned R.
I’ve said it elsewhere to other friends but I am very, *very* lucky in my parents and I do my best not to take it for granted — they’re differing politically from each other though not heavily so, folks who never mistook discussion and argument for personal insults and the like. Talking with them about politics is a breeze, because I can rely on my dad’s thoughtful consideration and understated reflection and my mom’s perfect snark. Really sorry to hear that some of y’all have to deal with different situations — I’ve seen equivalents with some friends, it’s not pretty.
zic
I think it’s like W’s reaching-across-the aisle bipartisanship, it means it’s only nice/bi-partisan/working together if you go over to his point of view.
Most bullies are like that. Compromise means you compromise, they stand strong to avoid being called a flip flopper or weak.
Brachiator
@AkaDad:
Actually, I think he is just trying to get a President-elect Obama to appear on The Factor.
I can’t imagine wanting to have a beer with O’Reilly or Hannity. Even if they offered to pay.
redbeardjim
Maybe someone should point Bill-o to this story.
Atanarjuat
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII, I would never have told you to "shut up and go away." Also, I would never have told you to leave the USA simply because we may hold differing political views.
All of us who are voting in this election are, in the end, Americans, and what strengthens this nation and makes our society that much more vibrant is when we can debate opposing ideas that help refine our thinking.
A truce? I never declared war on you, much less anyone else.
Country First.
Ella in NM
@Bad Horse’s Filly:
My husband and I have been really disappointed in how his parents have turned "Republican" in their retirement years, and seem to vote for a party that doesn’t reflect the values we know they have held most of their lives. We blame this on the fact that they live in a small, rural area of south-central PA that is "dying" (more young people have left than are moving in) and has a tendency to be narrow-minded. They don’t interact with much diversity and are not challenged by social and technical advances on a day to day basis. They don’t use the internet and get most of their news from TV and local gossip mills. The thing that really turned them, we realized, was the 9-11 terrorist attacks. After that, they stuck their frightened heads in the sand, supported Bush on every single thing he did, and put their blinders on regarding any criticisms of the Republicans.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself, or something like that.
ann sand
I have to believe Obama’s pushing back against Fox News, not being cowed or intimidated by them MIGHT get their attention.
r€nato
gee I wonder how things got that way.
Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with nearly 20 years of AM hate radio peddlers like Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, and Ingraham, telling their listeners on a daily basis how much liberals hate America and the troops.
Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Fox News Channel’s 24/7 demonization of everything left of center.
Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the Clinton witch-hunts or the past 8 years of the GOP screaming ‘traitor!’ and ‘terrorist coddler!’ and ‘Saddam lover!’ and ‘islamofascist!’ at anyone who had policy disagreements with Republicans or dared to point out that Emperor C+ Augustus was wearing no clothes.
No siree. Had to have been space aliens or something. It just happened. Mistakes were made.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
No your party did. They have enjoyed themselves for eight long years kicking us over and over. If you don’t believe in such behavior, then go talk to your party and try to calm them down. (I’m not recommending this, you’ll receive their wrath if you question their actions).
Think about the group you associate with.
You want to blame Dems for being mean spirited? We’ve had years of abuse, and we tried to be reasonable, but, your side wouldn’t have it. So if your side feels victimized now, you only have yourselves to blame.
Your actions you described above, I respect. So let’s agree to disagree and just see what happens on Tuesday without the smugness, shall we?
I’m game if you are. But, don’t think that if you lay down your arms and then take them up again that I won’t do the same. I will not be kicked again.
Sour Kraut
I bet O’Reilly will turn a new leaf, and from now on, will treat Obama with the utmost respect.
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking coffee when I read that…
r€nato
@ Bad Horse’s Filly:
I’m so sorry about what’s happened with you and your mother. That is tragic. This is evidence of the poison which the right-wing has mainlined into our country.
There is almost no reason whatsoever why politics should come between family members. The only excuse I can think of, is if a family member has joined the KKK or some other similar extremist, eliminationist group.
Absent that, family ought to be able to have political differences and still get along. I mean, your own mother for chrissakes, and she’s letting that douchebag Rush Limbaugh get between the two of you?
This is why the GOP – if it refuses to stop peddling hatred – must be crushed into dust.
El Cid
All the anti-American, secessionist, law-breaking, deregulating Republicans are just becoming confused that America, the vast majority of America, a huge, unstoppable, overwhelmingly gigantic majority of America, has become bored of their lies and fear-mongering.
Nobody hates America like Republicans hate America, and Bill O’Reilly even sees which way the wind is blowing.
r€nato
Atanajurat is peddling the same old, ‘let’s be reasonable and not quibble about the past’ bullshit which all bullies and wife-abusers love to engage in.
redbeardjim
@r€nato:
"This is supposed to be a *happy* occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue about ‘oo killed ‘oo!"
cleek
DNFTT
maybe we can have one thread which isn’t completely about The Troll ?
jrg
Atanajurat is full of shit. It is either a sock puppet or a fool. Stop feeding it.
r€nato
I’m sorry for feeding the troll and I solemnly promise to cease and desist.
I am just way annoyed with this bullshit of bemoaning the politics of personal destruction while simultaneously engaging in/benefitting from it. A. is far from the first wingnut to do it. It’s been GOP SOP for a long time now.
It’s like the Menendez brothers lamenting the fact that they are orphans.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse:
Sorry, no. David Gregory and Howie ("We in the media are so unfair to McCain!") Kurtz are the tools nonpareil of this election.
In other news, I just rang the register for the MUP for the last time this election, and now I’m watching Lewis Hamilton working at being the first brown guy to win the F1 world championship.
Comrade Jake
O’Reilly treated Obama with the utmost contempt when he interviewed him on Fox. He’s not half the man Obama is, and he never will be. Obama occupies a plane of decency that O’Reilly would never even think to strive for, much less attain.
You really only need to watch one O’Reilly show to have seen them all. He’s a bully, a blowhard. He’s like Hugh Hewitt with half the intellect and twice the ego.
Comrade Nixon Hailfire Palin
Props to John for sticking to his principles and not banning these guys. It must be painful to watch sometimes.
Joshua Norton
There are some conservative commentators who have a little something to contribute to the public dialogue, yet whose voices are increasingly drowned out by an army of radio and television buffoons posing as conservatives, who almost seem to be making fun of the conservative point of view.
It strikes me that Bill O’Reilly and his media confederates are not so much ”conservative” as they are in the ”conservative business” — pitching outrageous story lines and arguments that are calculated to get a ”rise” out of a target audience they view as being crude and unsophisticated.
They are to political discourse about what the World Wrestling Federation is to sports. You can take them as entertainment and appreciate them as a campish living cartoon. Or you can take them seriously and, in so doing, call into question your own good judgment and intelligence.
Nothing amuses me more than a sputtering, slogan shouting, sock-puppet troll who’s upset that the people they hate don’t seem to like them very much either.
Comrade Jake
Here’s O’Reilly, suggesting that one reason McCain isn’t doing so well in the polls is because he hasn’t made an appearance on his show. Jesus.
It is kind of strange though, that McCain won’t do his show. I wonder what the deal there is.
kommrade jakevich
Now we know what happened to the loud, pushy, whiny kid who always screamed he didn’t want to play with you anyway and then threw a bigger fit when no one cared.
PolyD
I saw it too. I think O’Reilly was doing some PR in an attempt to build up his image and ‘scare’ up some watchers, since Olbermann has been beating him in ratings.
Atanarjuat
I’m baffled by all the slings and arrows launched at me in this thread.
Message #22 simply stated that I agree that we could all mutually benefit from disagreeing without being disagreeable. Instead, my attempt at reasonableness is met with scorn and hostility.
Perhaps liberals can only gain validation and power by belittling the opposition? If so, that’s just incredibly disheartening and a sad testament to the state of our nation today.
As for what jrg quoted in message #53, I’ve since learned to moderate my view of my natural ideological opponents. That’s called refinement of thought, or, in other words, progress. You would think that a party that subscribes to liberal ideology and embraces progressiveness as a goal would be the first to welcome such a change.
And then perhaps you’d be wrong to think so.
I’m simply stunned that my extended fig leaf has been batted away so contemptuously. Perhaps on November 5th, the rifts that divide us can begin to heal. That’s the hope that we should ALL try to believe in.
Country First.
Joshua Norton
Shouldn’t they be getting ready for the 2008 imaginary war on Christmas? They’ve tried to ruin every holiday since Bush took office, I can’t imagine they’d let the last one slip by unnoticed.
ppcli
"that my extended fig leaf has been batted away"
.
I hope you mean "olive branch". We won’t be havin’ no nekkid fast runners in these parts.
Chuck Butcher
I’ll have polite political discourse with anyone who wants to do so. I’ll be gentle about correcting the obvious falsehoods, right up until it becomes stupid. I have never seen evidence of this in O Reilly. I watch him very occassionally, I don’t subject myself to more stupidity than I have to – which is why I am greatful to JC for the articles tagged "I read so you don’t have to."
I don’t have a closed mind, I consider other views, provided they are intelligently presented. If I don’t agree I know that I need to have an intelligent argument to counter with because it will become an issue of some sort.
After the Nov 4th bloodbath expect the Republicans to start crying about being treated meanly, particularly by the leftist media. Do not, however, expect any moves to placate the insulted and abused left, attacks of the nastiest manner will occur. Keep in mind that they are a) out of ideas, b) out of power, c) want back in, d) don’t give a damn who they shit on.
Comrade Jake
@Atanarjuat:
You’re surprised everyone knows you’re an asshole at this point? Don’t be.
Atanarjuat
ppcli, you’re right, of course. I typed "fig leaf" in place of "olive branch" without intending to.
Thanks for the correction.
Country First.
Snarki, child of Loki
I think that the one thing that can be taken from O’Reilly’s comment is that he is now convinced that Obama is going to win the election.
kommrade jakevich
Your Attention Please: Any one who has batted Atanarjuat’s extended fig leaf should report to Sector 9 for full decon.
demimondian
Atanougat — you’re a spoof troll. We all know it; we’ve seen it before, and we’ll see it again. For all your skill, you’re not funny, merely foolish and tiresome.
Comrade Darkness
I’m glad someone did this. I can’t get over my inherent dislike of money mixed into politics, even though I know it is an evil necessity. I gave my time a lot more this round instead. It was not cheaper for me to do that, by any measure except feeling better about the situation.
Cathyish
@cleek: Word.
Comrade Kevin
@plus C:
At least those kids are still alive. Asshole opens fire with assault rifle on trick-or-treaters.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
@Comrade Scrutinizer: I think my total came up to something like $60-$70 for the MUP. (Yeah, I’m a skinflint. I just bought a house.) I was thinking of heading downtown to see him ‘n the Boss today, but between that gathering and the Browns-Ravens game, I think I’ll stay home and enjoy the warm feeling I’ll get Tuesday morning and Tuesday night.
I do have plans to head downtown Wednesday, if only to see if I can high-five the Jesse Owens Memorial.
demimondian
@cleek: Acronym.
Comrade Jake
I’m in, easily $500 for the MUP, plus volunteer time phone banking, canvassing, etc. I’ve never given anything close to that to a candidate, never volunteered for a presidential campaign.
Notorious P.A.T.
Oh come on, why do we give such people credit?
Remember when Limbaugh was hired (for some reason) to provide football analysis on ESPN? This was his lifelong dream, to work in sports, and all he would have to do was offer safe, nonpolitical comments about limiting turnovers. Instead he went on a rant about how Donovan McNabb wasn’t any good, people only talk about him because he’s black.
Now, what does that tell you?
Lesley
Most of the time Bill O’Reilly appears to be sociopathic so this doesn’t surprise me at all.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Painful? While Atan and I are currently in a truce (I’m trying to see how long he holds out) I just LOVE poking these kinds of "guys" with a stick. It’s good, clean fun, and it keeps my game fresh. ;)
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
I agree P.A.T.
Limbaugh doesn’t exist in my world more than as the equivalent of a typhoon which blows a strong wind sometimes… but I live in America and typhoons don’t affect me much at all.
Punchy
where’s my NFL thread. Just what the fuck is going on in Cinci and KC?
…..and….Chicago?
Apocalypse is nigh.
demimondian
I’m reminded of the 180 that Murdoch’s papers did when Blair was first up, what, 16, 17 years ago? As it became very clear that the Tories were about to go down hard, Murdoch’s papers suddenly started being nice to Labour. I can’t imagine that O’Reilly’s sudden Road-to-Damascus moment is any less convenient, or any more heartfelt.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Hey Atan? Now that we’re truce buddies, I asked you a question earlier and you completely ignored it (not sure which thread it was on, sorry) – would you mind answering it for me?
Question: Regarding holding feet to the fire, I stated previously that I would expect you to do that to Obama, and we (Dems) would also do that both to Obama and, if McCain should somehow win, to McCain as well. My question was: Why haven’t Republicans held Bush’s feet to the fire? Can you answer this please?
mclaren
Translation:
The meanness of [the 74% of Americans who are not batshit insane and who have tired of being bullied and lied to by far-right thugs]’s discourse [which finally, at long last, has begun to push back against the tidal wave of smears and lies vomited out by the right-wing noise machine] dismays me."
I bet it does. Just the way an erstwhile rape victim dismays her attacker when she pulls out a gun and shoots him in the balls. The wanna-be rapist stares at her with disbelief, appalled by her "meanness."
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
He knows what’s coming and he wants to make sure he eats in lean times.
demimondian
@Comrade Nixon Hailfire Palin: Not really.
There are two alternatives: either the contributor is a troll (spoof or serious) or the contributor is a real conservative with balls. In the former case, banning him/her won’t do any good, and, in the latter case, banning him/her will do active harm.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
Because !SHUT UP!(tm) that’s why.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Speak for yourself, but… no, not Atan, because I refuse to think that way about Republicans.
Sorry Atan, but we can be truce buddies, right?
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Hi, nice to see you, but, you’re not where you’re supposed to be… unless you changed your mind?
liberal
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Agreed.
People—particularly the dimwits in charge of the Democratic Party (especially Congressional Dems)—need to understand that this all boils down to an iterated Prisoners Dilemma.
To first approximation, a good strategy is tit-for-tat. You first extend your hand in cooperation, but when the other guy kicks you in the gut—as the Rethuglicans have been kicking us since at least 1994, but really earlier than that—you respond to his decision to "defect" by defecting in kind.
It’s really time to start kicking these bastards in the nuts, repeatedly.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
Lunch break.
As you know, I can’t go more than 3 hours without eating or I turn into a pumpkin.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
True liberal… would you like me to teach Nancy Pelosi how it’s done? :)
If I had the means to do it, I would certainly volunteer for the position.
Bad Horse's Filly
Ella & r€nato: thanks for all that. I’ve made my peace with it for the most part (though I had a visceral reaction to Ella’s story) and am content to know she produced all democratic kids and is married to an old school Kennedy democrat.
But best part? No one knew (including me) that I’d be at Invesco (got tickets 2 hours before the event) – but she thought I might be there, so she watched the entire thing that night (and swears she saw me – which could be possible we were right in front of one of the jumbo-trons), just in case I was there. I’m not sure anything else would have gotten her to do that.
The sad part? This is the woman who taught me to recycle and care about the environment and save the whales. All of which are now of course elitist, liberal nonsense.
I’ll take great pleasure in seeing the rethugs stomped to non-existence…but am still holding my breath until polls close on Tuesday.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Does that include whipped cream? ::wide grin::
liberal
@Joshua Norton:
The only ones I know of are e.g. Andrew Bacevich and the types who post or get quoted on antiwar.com.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
No, really since 1944. What you are describing is just the latest in a series of cycles that started with the invention of the Cold War at the end of WWII.
Nixon used it to get into congress in 1946. McCarthy used it. Nixon continued to use it. Goldwater used it ("I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue," etc). Reagan used it. Bush the Elder used it. Bush the Younger used it.
It ain’t new. It just gets a new paint job every few years.
The division came from their side, and they own it.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
Especially whipped cream.
Martin
And win he did. White mom, black dad, top of the racing world. I’ll take it as a sign of good things to come.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Thank you, that’s been my point.
But really, I was able to talk to those people, perhaps not agree, but manage to have some real debates with them before 2000. Since then, not so much. I think they upped the ante, but, of course, I wasn’t debating them in 1992 or in 1980… I only know that from the mid 90’s thru 99 I didn’t have the door slammed in my face (or told I was a loon and I deserved to die) when I tried to talk issues with them. It was only after Bush II was elected.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Yum!~
Bootlegger
@redbeardjim:
Rightous brother!
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
TZ? Do you happen to know where I might be able to secure a time machine? I need to go to Tuesday now!
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Martin:
I just hope that Obama’s win isn’t as precarious as Hamilton’s. The last lap, the last corner, in the rain? I”m still hyperventilating.
And could anyone’s luck have been as bad as Massa’s this season? I’m not a Ferrari fan by any means, but I felt sorry for him today.
Speaking of the MUP, he’s making an election eve visit here at UNCC tomorrow around 1730. Not only did I get to see Biden this round, I’ll see the MUP speak right outside our lab! Stoked, I am. And amazed that NC is actually a "battleground state". Never in all my life thought I’d see that.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
Hmm, I think you need my brother Jim. He’s the one that believes in fairy tales and magic.
I’m sure he could arrange you a timetravel ticket.
Bootlegger
@liberal:
You left out the key part of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. If there is only one round it is far more rational to defect and turn on your fellow prisoner, reaping the rewards while she is swinging from the noose. The key is "iteration", when there are many rounds, then when one party defects from cooperation the response is punishment, which is then punished, which is punished, and so on. The cooperative strategy is the most rational in the long run, the selfish strategy in the short run, and we have short-run politics.
What’s really sad is the fact that I’m currently teaching my 6 and 7 year old about the negative outcomes of the tit-for-tat strategy…and they get it! Grownups, not so much.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Nevermind, by the time I got to his state it would be Tuesday.
and from what you told me about him, I’m really not looking forward to meeting him.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
This is a shout out to Atan my new truce buddy:
Every time I ask you about Republicans holding Bush’s feet to the fire, you disappear, what’s up with that? Come on, I thought we were beginning a beautiful civility thing here.
I’m going to ask you every time I see you. Now that we’re truce buddies, I expect you to give me answers.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
He’s good looking, smart, funny, charming, educated, unassuming, polite, principled, a great dad, great street football player.
He just happens to think that the Pope is the inerrant voice of God on earth, and that liberals are doomed to burn in hell. But he’s nice about it.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Nice or not, no thanks. I wouldn’t be able to keep my mouth shut and you’d be forever mad that I pissed off your brother.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Sometimes I really wish Linda Sanchez had chosen interior design for a career. Rabid hispanic Republican women are not attractive.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
Oh no, that is a contest I would pay to see. With your knowledge of religion, he’d be in for a helluva battle.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
He’d hate you forever for visiting that upon him. Trust me, going through the process I went through is a bit of a shock. He wouldn’t be happy about it if he’s so devout; moreover it violates "First Do No Harm" so, I couldn’t do it.
Now, if he came to me and wanted to discuss, I would.
I'mRubberYou'reGlue
He would if he thought he could get a conversion.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Not a chance, he’d be the one getting a conversion.
TZ, you have to realize, I know what he would try to tell me backwards and forwards; and I also know the debunking for each point. He has NO CLUE what I would present to him, (I can guarantee you he’s never read the material I would present, even though he probably holds it in his hands every day) and in this process I’ve gone through jolts that have lasted for days. It would be like an exorcism. (and yes, he’d be changed that much). I don’t think that is what he wants.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
By the way, I’ve decided I’m going to write this all down in book form. ;)
TheHatOnMyCat
He’ll want to put a hex on you.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Well, that certainly sounds theatrical and entertaining, but I’m not scared.
Would you like to see him try to put a hex on me?
Seriously, the process I went through is not for the faint of heart – he’s got to want to have the added knowledge, it’s very dangerous to force it on to someone. It creates a complete flip of perspective which is NOT an easy thing to experience.
TheHatOnMyCat
He gets all the knowledge he needs from God.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Not really, he’s listening to those who forgot the truth and don’t realize they teach lies. They’ve made up a cute little fantasy fairytale, but they forgot there are scriptures in the Old Testament (which the church didn’t write) that tell how things are supposed to be done. Heck, even some of the New Testament scriptures tell him he’s doing it wrong, but the church followers don’t even notice or listen. I could destroy him on transubstantiation alone, and that’s just an introductory lesson. That doesn’t get into the really mindbending stuff.
bago
A Hex? Why not a Penta or a Septa?
Atanarjuat
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII said:
Please… of course conservatives have criticized President George W. Bush, and not just on a few occasions.
Where were you when he was being urged to stop holding back and authorize the bombing of Iran’s nuclear weapon development sites? Or to effectively beef up border security to prevent the incursion of more illegal immigrants, as well as to impose a significant program to identify and deport those already in the country as "undocumented workers?" Or even recently, when the U.S. only gave token support for beleaguered Georgians when we should have come to our ally’s rescue and help to repel the Putin’s murderous military machine?
Was that actually a serious question you posed? Or were you hoping I’d give one of those stereotypical "wingnut" responses where I’d supposedly exclaim my lockstep loyalty to the Right Wing Cause, as my "leader" could never do any wrong?
Sorry, CIRCVS, but I suspect that Obama will be the beneficiary of a lot of liberal adulation. Leftists will happily gloss over any missteps or questionable decisions Obama will likely make over the course of his presidential tenure. Conversely, I expect most of McCain’s supporters to express disappointment if he fails to act on all those issues that Bush mystifyingly deferred.
By the way, I didn’t "disappear." Contrary to the idiotic suppositions of some of my detractors on BJ, I actually have a life that entails spending time with the family (the Autumn afternoon was especially beautiful today). Please forgive me for not attending my computer 24/7 in order to defend "greater Wingnuttia," or whatever some of the liberal diehard partisans like to call conservatism.
Country First.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Oh come on Atan. You can do better than that.
Wiretaps, the Patriot Act, complete Deregulation that has unbalanced our economy, Executive Privelege, Waterboarding, Sixteen Words in a UN Speech that were a lie and were the tipping point to get us into Iraq… I could go on and on and on…
If you think you can explain all this away with a few questions over illegal immigration and bombs in Iran, you fail.
Bush has taken this country into unchartered territory for EIGHT YEARS – no oversight, no demands from his supporters to provide a transparent government which he promised he would… you’re lying.
katiemc
Ok -I think Atanurjuat is Thyme zone in one of his personas…ala I’m rubber. He and Circvs are in cahoots. Crazy??
Atanarjuat
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII, you specifically asked me, "why haven’t Republicans held Bush’s feet to the fire?"
I then provided a few examples to demonstrate that, indeed, Republicans have criticized Bush on important matters.
The key difference, I think, that these are matters that are important to conservatives — NOT liberals. The examples you just listed (i.e., the Patriot Act) are not at all issues that Republicans would ever criticize Bush for. In fact, we’ve supported said examples (wiretapping our enemies abroad? Absolutely!).
Ultimately, I’m not too sure about this "truce" you keep referencing, especially if your first instinct is to dismiss my answer based on values that run counter to mine, and then go on to conclude that I’m "lying."
Country First.
TheHatOnMyCat
Already asked and answered.
Also, I have fifty dollars on the table that says Atan is a member of our mailing list, and is a spoof.
In case you missed my answer the first this question came up this weekend (from you?), I don’t do spoof. I’m no good at it (of course, neither is Atan), and it takes way too much work.
If I were doing Atan, he’d be funny instead of crushingly boring.
I don’t do multiple personas, either. I do one persona and post under different handles. But if you pay attention, you will see that I make no effort to conceal the fact.
BJ is an interesting place, lots of complex dynamics and trickery here, but to get it, you have to play close attention.
I just realized it’s time for a list recruitment, we haven’t done one in a long time. I will set one up.
Comrade Darkness
Poor TZ. For the record, I don’t think it’s you.
Ditto on circvs. Whoa. Kudos to Circvs if true.
TheHatOnMyCat
Try a little harder. You obviously are not aware of all internet spoof traditions.
Every action by every president gets "criticized." That’s not what is meant by "holding feet to the fire."
For example, why did Bush gin up a war over WMDs that were never there? What was the big hurry? If he was misled by faulty intelligence (an excuse I don’t buy), then why didn’t he resign as an incompetant? The one thing a president has to be able to do is figure out whether the intelligence is any good. Bush fucked it up twice, once in August 2001 when he ignored the Bin Laden warnings, and again in 2002 when he got WMDs wrong.
Where were conservatives on these little missteps? Maybe you can point us to your own criticisms on the subject? You were paying attention back then, were you not? Show us your work.
Really, Atan, did you think anyone would fall for such second rate spoof crap?
Chuck Butcher
Well Attajunk you’re at the very least a good example why to kick the snot out of every conservative that sticks his head up. Since I take the BOR seriously and you think it’s toilet paper – I classify you as dangerous to America. It isn’t so much that your ideology stinks, though it does, it is your paranoid insistance that I give up my guaranteed rights for your perceived security that makes you unacceptable.
Some around here think my insistence on the 2nd is strange, you and your type make it mandatory. Just to be clear, it is vastly preferable for you and your ilk to get buried at the ballot box this week than to get buried in a box for more of your shit. Mocking you is small bore response to your little girl fear of your terrorist spiders.
What is really telling is in the face of your disdain for government you have a childish faith in the BushCo version of truth – despite its repeated debunking. Your sentence structure belies the first grader emotion driven thinking level you funcion at.
ilsita
@Ella in NM:
I am so with you, Ella! My mother just left today, and she was with me for a month. She is one of the hardcore 9%ers — the ones who still think that Bush is doing a good job. Every day, she ask me for my computer so that she could "look at the headlines": Drudge, Lucianne and Instapundit. And then, she’d want to watch the "business news": Cavuto.
She told me that they would never have captured the guys plotting to assassinate Obama if it weren’t for the Patriot Act.
She told me that I’d be sorry for my vote when I saw my (6 yo) son goose-stepping down the street in his brown shirt.
My mom is from Nicaragua, and grew up marching with the communists when she was in high school. She tells me that I cannot take issue with her on any point because she hears the echoes of communism when Obama opens his mouth. The more sense he makes to her, the bigger the devil he is. And we know that the devil makes sense.
So, I just dropped my mother off at the airport, and, clearly, I’m well into a bottle of red.
ilsita
Oh, what I meant to say, before I was distracted by, Ella, my sister in FOX blaring in your own house "aaargh!" is that… and someone way more articulate that I am must have done an awesome post about this somewhere… righters always, always, always, kipe our smartness and funniness. They take everything. And they always accuse us of doing exactly what they’re doing, as soon as they get called out for doing it. And they do it straight-faced and immediately. It drives me mad.
If we call them for their racism, they call us racists.
So, they’re being mean as hell. From right down in the stinky filth they are in, suddenly they’re disturbed by the meanness?
Palin is suggesting that the press should be muzzled. These assholes support torture, warrantless wiretapping, internment, yet we are the fascists.
This very thing — I know it’s so obvious, so obvious that it’s like a waste of time to even mention it — but, this very thing is what makes me believe that they know better and are choosing to be assholes. They all have the Todd Gene.
Mayken
Atanarjuat said
How is upholding the Constitution not important to conservatives? I’ve spoken to, read blogs by or exchanged comments with many conservatives who are concerned with the expansion of Executive powers and the contraction of civil rights in the name of securing our nation. I submit that preserving the balance of power is a conservative (as well as liberal) value.
Also, I noted that true to your statement on another thread you were civil in your first comment. But as you admitted yourself it will take some time for people to recognize a change in your tone. But you need to try consistently before it will be taken for serious
Comrade Darkness
Guatamala has forgotten Kissinger and what stripe of administration he was in? Aye.
I’ve been to Guatamala, but steered clear of political discussions, so I’m asking this honestly. — Had a wonderful time there. The country is beautiful. The people are beautiful (with the exception of Guatemala City, where they seemed very unhappy).
Added: drat, I’m well into a red as well and completely mistook nicaragua for guatemala in your post. Ignore this…
ilsita
@Comrade Darkness:
Oh good! I’m so glad you told me to ignore it, because I am definitely in the mood to start answering all kinds of things I am clueless about.
Comrade Darkness
@ilsita,
You came to exactly the right place for that.
And, I’m at your service. Don’t know what came over me. My aunt lives in Honduras, but there again, a miss.
For what it’s worth, I’d say your mother is hopeless and you have my sympathy. I say this only because mine is too and she had no good reason to be beyond the bad influence of crappy media and remembering wwii and the fifties too clearly.
oclib
If by chance, one of the more intelligent freepers had read that, I could picture it scratching it’s head and pondering…..that reads like my beloved capitalist manifesto, not the communist manifesto…..the next sound you hear are its platters crashing…..he he he….priceless….
jcricket
It’s all psychological projection, and as someone else here mentioned, dissociative disorder (when it comes to people like Palin and Stevens claiming they’re not guilty). Seriously, some people from the APA should do a study of Republicans and update their textbooks with some new examples for the various psych diseases Republicans are showing these days.
ilsita
@Comrade Darkness:
Well my dad doesn’t have an excuse either, except for that he lives in the middle of the woods and listens to nothing but woodpeckers and FOX. Salud!
jcricket: They are going to have to add another wing to the DSM to explain this kind of advanced stage projection, and also another to include the people that are driven mad trying to unravel it.
dww44
Well, I got really interested in this thread after being away most of the day doing a little political work. Interesting except for the back and forth stuff with Atan…… I always get lost in those threads, but the ones here are nowhere near as involved as those over at Greenwald’s UT.
Wanted to weigh in with my thoughts on the origins and problems of having brainwashed relatives,friends, and neighbors. Weighed in quite lengthily and hit submit, and woof, everything disappeared. Am not inclined to reinvent that particular wheel, so will extract from one of my lte’s to the local paper in a little back and forth with a rabid conservative back in mid-summer. And I quote me directly.
"To speak to the current state of political meanness, there is a case to be made for tracing its modern roots to the demise of the much reviled Fairness Doctrine and the subsequent rise and dominance of the "free speech " of conservative talk radio, which, while profitable for its sponsors and its participants, could never be accused of promoting the growth of political civility and comity."
What I failed to include in the letter was Fox News, which also owes its existence to the demise of the FD. Being a lady of a certain age, I bear witness to the accuracy of my theory and the ability of both talk radio and Fox News to brainwash almost a whole political party. If elected, Obama may indeed succeed in bridging the political divide, but I am still so angry about what Republicans have done to the country that I hope they spend the next 40 years wandering aimlessly in the desert.
YellowJournalism
After reading about some of your family arguments over O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox tribe, I feel very lucky that my parents, former Bush supporters, have found "that Raquelle Madder girl" to be very entertaining and intelligent, right after they watch that "Kevin Oberman". (My mother messes up names like you wouldn’t believe. In that way she’s a little like the lady off of "Roseanne" who kept calling Roseannne’s character "Roxanne Conway".)
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
I don’t call TZ a liar.
What exactly is cahoots and why is it your business?
You’re wrong Katie, TZ is not Atan.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
The examples I listed should be important to ALL AMERICANS!
You say "Country First" but what you really mean is PARTY FIRST. The Patriot Act is a weapon used against CITIZENS but you don’t think it’s important to conservatives. You’re a liar and a fraud.
You want to find some peace in this situation? Think about this country as a group of people who are all being fucked by the same government. We are, you just don’t want to realize it.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Katie, to set you straight on your false theory, go back and check out the thread, pay close attention to 88, 90 and 92.
I was arguing with Atan all morning. in 88 TZ shows up. In 90 I greet him, saying hello and asking why he was there when he told me he would not be on BJ today, in 92 he explains why.
If I was arguing with TZ as Atan, why would I say hello to him in 90? Do you seriously believe we set this up for your entertainment?
Spend your time on real questions (like why Atan thinks he should be treated with respect when he is clearly just a party first troll?).
liberal
@Atanarjuat:
I for one was thankful that even Bush wasn’t as crazy as people like you.
I was laughing at right-wingers who don’t understand incentives. (Which are also important to getting markets to work properly.) In this case, efforts to penalize illegal immigrants are bound to fail, whereas efforts to penalize (with huge fines and jail terms) employers are bound to succeed, if the goal is to control illegal immigration. Yet those opposed to unregulated immigration by and large fail to understand this. That means they’re either ignorant or cynical.
It means Bush wasn’t as nutty as you are. First, the Georgians are not our allies—we have no mutual defense treaty with them. Second, we have no important national interest in supporting Georgist revaunchism . Third, we understand that the facts suggest that the Georgians, not the Russians, are mostly to blame for starting that phase of the conflict.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Absolutely, but, conservatives, as we know, side with warmongers. Unfortunately, the accepted opinion on that conflict has been so totally manipulated that most people think Georgia was a victim when actually they were the aggressors.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
So, am I to believe from what Atan is saying here is that we should be at war with:
1. Iraq
2. Afghanistan
3. Iran
4. Russia
All at the same time, right? You sound like Hitler.
I wonder where all those troops come from and what money we use to pay for all that warring? Goodness knows, if we pay a little more in taxes that will ruin all Americans so, I guess we have no funds for those wars.
Who is #5 on your list Atan? China? Go for the really BIG countries, that’s where you’re headed.
liberal
@CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII:
Oh, you know, we’ll do the "conservative" thing: borrow it from China, Saudi Arabia, etc.
[/snicker]
ksmiami
These fuckers brought it on and now they are whining cause the Dems are finally giving it back to them. Call the WAAAAMBulance!
LanceThruster
Get out your "180 Rule" decoder rings.
He’s disappointed because it’s not working this time round.
Birdzilla
Like any other liberal news program CBS SUNDAY MORNING is lies