Site has been upgraded and cleaned of all badness, so a big thanks to the good folks at Hosting Matters for once again fixing everything.
Also, am I the only one laughing at all the right-wingers heaping praise on the corpse of Walter Cronkite? If Walter Cronkite had been at CBS during the Bush administration, they would have fire-bombed his house, after, of course, checking his counters and kerning. Such transparent phonies.
arguingwithsignposts
Up and down, up and down. you folks keep me going, but it’s been a hard day. glad the site is back humming. hosting matters does rock.
bluer than yesterday, not quite as blue as the day before. hoping this stuff clears away before long.
ellaesther
If Hosting Matters are able to clean a place “of all badness,” don’t you think maybe you’d better hire them for the rather larger issues before us? Do they have time on their schedule for the GOP, talk radio, or maybe the smoldering remains of AIG? The Taliban, perhaps? I’d chip in, if it’s an expense issue.
arguingwithsignposts
BTW, just watched “The Gauntlet” with Clint Eastwood again. I imagine Obama having that kind of guts to take on health care. “I know why they gave me this assignment. I’m going to prove them wrong.”
A Mom Anon
@arguingwithsignposts:
Good to hear. Are you getting outside and moving about? YMMV of course,but it seems to help alot of people (myself included) battle the more deep seated blues. I go for a drive with the kiddo sometimes,no where in particular, we just get out and crank up the radio,roll down the windows and go. The temptation when you feel bad is to isolate yourself which can compound things. Just a thought.
arguingwithsignposts
@A Mom Anon:
I actually moved around so much yesterday my knee is acting up (walked maybe 50 city blocks), but I’m back in my apt. at the moment, and my friend is flying back home, so all the bad things rush back in.
I’m thinking of cranking up the iTunes and grabbing my guitar just to move around some.
SiubhanDuinne
So, John: Doing anything fun with Lily today? Leaving Tunch to his own nefarious devices? Camera at the ready?
The next-to-last samurai
Signposts, have you been able to see a dr yet and get some medicine to heal your broken brain? If you don’t have the $, don’t be embarrassed to say so; most of us are Americans, we are familiar w/that problem, & someone who knows how would surely set a paypal account for you.
shelley matheis
I posted on an earlier thread the breaking story from HuffPost, “Weinermobile crashes into Wisconsin home.’
Now this, courtesy of the BBC,
‘San Diego menaced by jumbo squid!’
IanY77
Well, at least Macranger over at Macs mind is being honest:
Pinko Cronkite Bites the Dust
And good riddance. The original “surrendercrat” is dead.
“Walter Cronkite, an iconic CBS News journalist who defined the role of anchorman for a generation of television viewers, died Friday at the age of 92, his family said.
“My father, Walter Cronkite, died,” his son Chip said just before 8 p.m. Eastern. CBS interrupted prime time programming to show an obituary for the man who defined the network’s news division for decades.”
Walter Cronkite along with congress caused us to lose in Vietnam. I have nothing but distain for him, as other veterans of that era. Indeed while he uttered the unqualified words, “We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds” and added that, “we are mired in a stalemate that could only be ended by negotiation, not victory.”
BombIranForChrist
All news actor behavior is Preening of one kind or another.
What we are currently seeing is called Death Preening: “I recognize this dead person as important, therefore I am important.”
Other Preening includes:
Ethical Preening – “I see that someone did something unethical, therefore I am ethical”.
Insider Preening – “Someone told me something that they did not tell you, therefore I am important.”
etc.
Annie
Yipeeeeeeeee, you are back. Last night I kept trying. I was afraid I was missing a Lily and Tunch update….
The day is just not the same without you, all.
DougJ
I’m thinking of cranking up the iTunes and grabbing my guitar just to move around some.
Sounds like a good plan.
AhabTRuler
@arguingwithsignposts: Just remember that you are not alone, even when you are alone. I know exactly what you are feeling; I have been where you are; any day I could return to being there. Many others, many here, have been there too.
I can’t make the pain go away, for you or myself, but I can tell you that there are people who care about you, even if they only know you as a name on a blog. Lean on the people that are offering you love and support (as you seem to be doing already, which is good).
And thank you for having the courage to post when you did. By doing so you have allowed the many wonderful people who frequent this blog to help you in the ways that they can, which is all that anyone can ask for.
AhabTRuler
@IanY77: Yes, precisely. Walter Cronkite was a pinko, and you are not an idiot.
Why didn’t anyone tell me that it was reverse day tonight?
Category F-5 (that’s 5 out of 5 on the fuckin’ moran scale) history fail!
gnomedad
@shelley matheis:
I was expecting mostly this sort of thing. I’m surprised by the revisionist (from their perspective) praise.
arguingwithsignposts
@The next-to-last samurai:
No, I haven’t. I’ve been down that route before though, so it’s not all a matter of money (although that does play into it). I’ve been through a couple of courses of psychiatrists playing the “pin the anti-depressant on the donkey” game, and was unimpressed with the state of the game. I felt like if i’d had a heart disease, they’d have had some real tests and some treatments that would work. As it was, it seemed like a game of “tell me what’s wrong and I’ll throw some pills at it.” not a good thing.
I could be wrong. i’d be willing to admit that, but that was the impression from the times I’ve been through the system.
passerby
Yay! Huzzah! Hosting Matters. Bet that’s a load off your mind, John. Can we celibrate with some fresh Tunch and Lily fotos?
@BombIranForChrist:
I like your preening angles particularly this one:
Insider Preening – “Someone told me something that they did not tell you, therefore I am important.”
Bet that one runs rampant throught the White House Press room.
Let me give it a try. How’s this:
Presidential Preening: I asked the most powerful man on the planet a question and he responded to me, my importance is global in scope.
gnomedad
@arguingwithsignposts:
Meds worked wonders for me, and in retrospect I waited far too long before exploring that route. Everyone’s different, of course. It really helps to find a shrink who inspires trust.
AhabTRuler
@arguingwithsignposts: Having been involved with mental health professionals since age 5 (that’s 3 full decades for those of you playing along at home), the system sucks, but you gotta keep trying. I have dealt with a number of mutton heads, and the ADM’s can be a pain in the ass, but persevering till you can find one (either Doctor or pill) that helps is really really really worth it.
I hate the fact that I am dependent on my meds, but I am glad as hell that I have those meds to be dependent on. I highly recommend trying again with docs, because they can really help.
Super-this. Keep trying ’til you find one you can work with (and remember, it is a collaborative process, you have to work with your doc to get results).
Robertdsc-iphone
Not a criticism, but the standard HTML version ahows up instead of the iPhone plugin version. Just a FYI.
I second the call for more Tunch & Lily photos. Thank you.
passerby
Weather report: It’s 80 degrees (@3:45pm!) here in E TN and I’ve got the house open. It’s expected to be like this for a few days. What am I doing indoors?!
I’m going down to the river and watch the kids play in the fountain. Later.
AhabTRuler
@passerby:
What are you doing E Tenn?!
I keed, I keed!
gnomedad
Bush preening: the most powerful man on the planet gave me a nickname!!
McCain preeening: I swung in the tire of potentially the most powerful man on the planet!
AhabTRuler
@gnomedad: Obama preening: I am taking that fucker down! For the ratings!
Brick Oven Bill
In my opinion, the best therapy is walking, and beer. I do not trust these doctors and drug companies. Most of us evolved with alcohol, as it was the method that our ancestors used to preserve their grain for the long, cold winter. It is liquid bread, with therapeutic side effects.
I’d stick with beer. Beer also might be a sign that God loves us. As it is Saturday, and past noon, I will pop open a beer and send long distance Internet thoughts for arguingwithsignposts. Life is not easy but it is worth sticking it out.
Cheers.
freelancer
Called it last night. Twice.
I’m beginning to fear that my fluency in Wingnut-ese is starting to gel to the point where they have predicable patterns, which means, they might be starting to make sense, sort of.
Also, too, there’s a Bond marathon on Spike.
freelancer
Oh, and BOB,
You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. The last thing you want to give to someone who’s suffering from a bout of clinical depression is ALCOHOL.
It’s okay to drown your sorrows in a beer every once in a while, but if you are actually Depressed, you shouldn’t touch wit.
Downpuppy
I’m not sure ambition is Williams problem. Stupidity & a stunning soldier fixation would render him useless even in better circumstances.
http://dailynightly.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/07/14/1996452
The next-to-last samurai
Yep, sometimes a dr has to keep trying till he finds the right medicine for the patient’s chemistry. Signposts, yu may as well go to the dr. There are moms here. Moms are relentless. If we have to, we will track you down, throw you into an unmarked minivan, and haul off to the dr ourselves, also stopping at the grocery, the post office, the library, the video store, band practice, the dog groomer, the dancewear store, and the DMV on the way. So since it’s going to happen anyway, you might as well save the minivan a stop and go to the dr on your own. ASAP, please.
Common Sense
@Brick Oven Bill:
@arguingwithsignposts:
I think BoB has some decent words to heed here, but I’ve gotta say about the most therapeutic thing on earth for me when I’m a little angry is really really loud music while wailing at the top of my lungs.
If contemplation is more your speed, then a walk or drive, or even a park bench in a peaceful setting can do wonders.
dj spellchecka
@arguingwithsignposts: whatever you do, don’t take any prescribed atypical antipsychotics without reading up on their staggering number of bad side effects….too many doctors are pushing this class of meds for simple depression…take it from me..i’ve been there
Brick Oven Bill
Beer makes me feel better. Beer is natural and doesn’t send you bills like doctors and drug companies. I have more faith in beer than doctors. That being said, I’m just some guy sitting in the kitchen who has little knowledge of medicine other than the military made me a back-up surgeon once and it is a good thing nobody needed surgery. They gave me a book with pictures.
In either case, God Bless America.
lotus
arguing, I know what you mean about shrinks, having been referred, over the years, to a number of ’em for meds-as-supplement-to-talk-therapy. Of all the ones I’ve encountered, exactly one wasn’t immediately observable as batshit bonkers him- or herself — and he moved out of the area two weeks after we met (figures, huh?).
Anyhow, the very best therapist I’ve encountered is an M.S.W., not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Everything depends on the interpersonal chemistry you can develop, doesn’t it? I drive an hour each way to visit my M.S.W. because her sense of humor and insight-provoking questions are worth it. Keep looking for one like that.
Have you seen DrX’s blog? Check him out and, if you like what you see, maybe contact him to see if he (or some of his contacts) can recommend someone funny-and-sensible in your vicinity.
arguingwithsignposts
Okay, I have to admit that made me laugh, if only because there was so much truth involved. :) {smiling through tears}
listening to music right now, trying to keep upbeat. i didn’t quite get BoB’s sentiment, but appreciated the effort, i guess.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
“right-wingers heaping praise on the corpse of Walter Cronkite”
Careful, I upset a couple of your readers by calling Cronkite “mainstream”. Speaking offhandedly about his corpse is liable to make their heads explode.
Brick Oven Bill
My sentiment was that I hope you feel better soon arguingwithsignposts.
Brick Oven Bill
deleted redundant tolerance needs work
Fern
@dj spellchecka:
Oh yes – adventures with Seroquel.
devopsych
Rambo Reagan would have won Viet Nam if it hadn’t been for defeatofondacrats like Cronkite. This shit still lives in the American body politic like a blood cancer.
arguingwithsignposts
@Fern:
yeah, last time seroquel was one of the “throw it at the wall and see if it sticks” numbers. I felt totally drugged up all day and unable to function. I’m sure these things work in some way, but do I have to act like a zombie to get straight?
Maybe I do. that scares me as much as the depression in some ways.
JackieBinAZ
cynical editor +2
Svensker
John: glad you’re back. Was going through withdrawal.
Arguingwithsignposts: no words of wisdom, but hang in there. People do care. Wailing on the gi-tar sounds real good.
JackieBinAZ
marijuana is also a manifestation of God’s love.
Edit: that was supposed to be @BOB … though I hit “reply,” it doesn’t show up in the preview!
AhabTRuler
I agree.
I agree.
gnomedad
@arguingwithsignposts:
I took it for a while and had no problems with it. Different brains … Like Ahab said, it’s a collaborative process. And often experimental, alas.
geg6
arguingwithsignposts: I’d like to second the recommendation to seek out an MSW. The one and only time (thank FSM) I found myself staring at the abyss, I was lucky enough to be referred to one by the university’s EAP. She was great, empathetic, challenging, and very funny. If I ever start feeling that way again, I’ll be back to her like a shot. No meds, just talking and crying and arguing and laughing. She made me feel human again. That said, BOB means well and it’s not bad advice for your more every day blues. He’s crazy and all, but sometimes he isn’t a bad egg.
AhabTRuler
I agree.
I agree.
D-Chance.
Fire-bombing houses is a LEFT-wing specialty (see: ELF, ALF, et al)…
geg6
Oh…and JackieBinAZ and AhabTRuler are quite correct.
AhabTRuler
I agree.
I agree.
WMass
@arguingwithsignposts: It’s pretty aggravating to find that psychiatrists get paid a shitload of money to randomly try drugs until one works. Personally I find lifting weights to have a great effect on my brain chemistry. It’s obviously a lot easier to take a pill once or twice a day than to spend around 8 hours a week working out, but on the upside the side effect is being in really good shape, as opposed to gaining weight and becoming impotent. Sometimes SSRI type drugs are necessary in the short term, but hard exercise and yoga are surprisingly effective in the long term. Good nutrition can make a difference as well, but it takes a long time, several months, to feel the benefit. Good luck.
mrak
@IanY77
The first and only person I ever heard refer to Walter Cronkite as “Pinko Cronkite” was Archie Bunker on “All in the Family”.
I guess today’s conservatives are still using Archie as a prototype.
R-Jud
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”– Benjamin Franklin.*
Arguingwithsignposts:
Very much doubt this will be news to you, but: depression is like any chronic illness in that it can’t be cured, only managed. A loved one of mine has Lupus, and although things are generally on an even keel for her there are times when she has a flare-up, and her skin erupts and her hair falls out and she generally looks like she is falling apart before your very eyes. There is then a painful period of trial-and-error with various meds to get things back under control.
It sounds like you have had one hell of a flare-up. It also sounds like you are doing everything right in terms of coping with it.
Now go to the doctor when you’re done rocking out.
Signed,
A Mom.
(*supposedly)
Leelee for Obama
I’m glad you’re back, John! I was getting really desperate! I was forgetting why I came to the internets! It was very disconcerting! I did not like it, not one bit!
Signposts-glad to hear you are feeling somewhat better. I’m not a big proponent of meds, but please talk to a counselor if possible. Sometimes, just a human being who listens is better than pills. But, if that’s not enough, maybe a mild anti-anxiety something?
geg6
If you want to read something about Cronkite that was written by a real journalist who never hesitated to call a spade a spade, mosey on over to Sully’s place. Patrick Appel is guest blogging and has a link to a 1976 Atlantic article on Cronkite by David Halberstam. Man, I miss that man, much as I dearly miss Molly Ivins.
Brachiator
The irony is that Cronkite helped fuel the rightwing resentment that later erupted into 5 alarm winguttia. Uncle Walter’s rejection of the possibility of success in Vietnam helped lead to the fetid stink of Rush Limbaugh, and the lie that the “liberal media” is inherently biased and unpatriotic.
It led to more active maninpulation of the media by the Bush Administration, down to the refusal to allow media images of the flag draped coffins of US servicemen. And it led to the more active co-opting of journalists, as seen in Cheney using Judith Miller as a double-agent, supposedly reporting for the New York Times, but actually working as an unpaid (as far as we know) propagandist for the Bush Administration.
IanY77 — Walter Cronkite along with congress caused us to lose in Vietnam.
Vietnam was never our war to win.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.) — Careful, I upset a couple of your readers by calling Cronkite “mainstream”. Speaking offhandedly about his corpse is liable to make their heads explode.
No, it’s more that people like me keep wondering why you are so pleased about such a superficial and irrelevant statement about Cronkite.
arguingwithsignposts – I got no advice. I know your situation is tough and can only offer my best wishes for you.
El Cid
If it hadn’t been for that traitor Cronkite we might still be in Vietnam winning to this day.
Thlayli
As long as there aren’t any more pics of Lily powdering her nose. Shame on you for embarrassing her like that, John.
JackieBinAZ
This article talks about how Cheney applied the lessons of Vietnam during the first Gulf War. Who could have foreseen, huh?
shelley matheis
“Beer is natural and doesn’t ”
And hey, it’s what helped build the pyramids.
PaulW
When you die, the conservatives will go around and claim that, gosh darn it, you were always one of them all along. They’re like the Mormons, grave-drafting everyone who can’t argue back into their cause.
Leelee for Obama
@shelley matheis:
All this about beer reminds me of a friend I worked with who didn’t want to take her anti-depressants anymore and asked me if I thought kava and St. John.s Wort were good to try. I told her to check with her reg. dr. cause I wasn’t sure if they were safe. Honestly, I wasn’t sure she wouldn’t hurt herself.
Her answer was, “They’re natural”, and mine was,”So’s arsenic, doesn’t make it good for you.”
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
I am guessing most people here don’t care about professional golf, but Tom Watson (age 59) is leading the British Open after 3 rounds. He won this thing 5 times back in the late 70’s/early 80’s.
If you want some inspiration, tune in tomorrow morning to see if he can bring it home…
Leelee for Obama
@Gordon, The Big Express Engine: Wasn’t that the BEST!? Big Tiger Woods fan here, and now I still have a reason to watch.
Linkmeister
@Gordon, The Big Express Engine: Oh, believe you me, I’m interested. Watson’s a whole year older than I am, but he shoots a far better round of golf than I ever have.
Svensker
@arguingwithsignposts:
Actually, I do have one suggestion for something to try. IP6 — a type of inositol. It’s a type of B vitamin and has been recently found to be very helpful against cancers, especially lung cancers. BUT it has also been found to be effective in GABA deficiencies in the brain, which can lead to anxiety and depression. A close friend tried it, after going through many serotonin uptake enhancers, which didn’t help much. The IP6 has been remarkably effective — much better than prozac. It’s available at health food stores over the counter. Worth a try.
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@Leelee for Obama: Totally. He had a bad stretch mid way through the round and still birdied 16 and 17 to take the lead back.
Turnberry was the site of his greatest triumph. 65 and 65 to Nicklaus’ 65 and 66 to win here by one stroke 30 YEARS ago.
I think the 3rd place guy that year was something like 8 strokes back.
Leelee for Obama
@Gordon, The Big Express Engine: He about a year and half older than me, and I just think it’s terrific that he still plays so well. Of course, links golf is made for his style and he’s won at Turnberry two or three times, but still-he is making it look almost easy, isn’t he?
Montysano
Here it is the depths of summer in Alabama, and today the high is in the low 80s, breezy, with blue skies and white clouds. Lows in the 50s tonight. Obviously climate change is a DFH hoax, and Al Gore, who grew a beard once, also, was once fat.
Veggies from the garden for dinner!
passerby
To: arguingwithsignposts
What BOB said. We’ve been given beer and herb(s) so that we can stave off the madness of this world. And walking and fresh air are free.
I’ve been self medicating for years. When I had a dog, I would cry and spill all my worries to her when things got unbearable, holding back nothing. She never sent me a bill.
Now, I have a cat which means that approach don’t work. So when I’m in a dark blue funk (I live alone) I fold up an origami bunny ( or get a broccoli floret ) and pour my heart out to it, and after I dry my eyes, I then throw it into the wooded patch behind my patio.
Coping skills come in all shapes and sizes and through it all, there’s always the beer option. But, you gotta do a verbal dump and cry ’til you choke. It’s toxic to keep that shit in.
@Brick Oven Bill:
“Beer also might be a sign that God loves us.”
Huh. Thought it was the other way around, He loves us because we were clever enough to discover beer. Learn something everyday.
Brachiator
@Brick Oven Bill:
Why just this morning I pulled a beer pod out of the garden and squeezed some lager into a cup. Hmmm. Tasty.
Beer is “natural.” Right. And BOB, you are a natural comedian.
maya
arguingwithsignposts – I’ve got nothing either, but let me state an obvious observation – cut out arguing with signposts for a start. Half the time they don’t even give you the correct directions and the rest of the time ……. well.
And here I thought it was because, Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, Thomas, Buchanan, Kristol, Fieth, Wolfowitz, and the rest of them neos couldn’t serve together in that Phalanx of Death squad, like they wanted to. ‘Cause, you know, if they coulda, they woulda have totally kicked some Hanoi Ho butt.
Incertus
@Gordon, The Big Express Engine: Been too busy with other stuff to be able to actually watch it this year, but you can bet your ass I’ll watch all 18 tomorrow in hopes he pulls it off.
I haven’t pimped a post of mine in a while here, and this isn’t my post–it’s Amy’s–but still, she’s got a good bit on polytheism versus monotheism based on Robert Wright’s appearance on bloggingheads and elsewhere.
AhabTRuler
Caffeinated bacon? Baconated grapefruit? Admiral Crunch?
Laura W
With all apologies to BOB, I trust Rumi more:
My Rx for emotional catharsis and cleansing:
1) Drink a lot of the wine that moves me and get down with my untied, ambling, bad camel self.
2) Turn off all lamps and light at least one candle – two is preferable.
3) Play Joni Mitchell, “Blue” and sing loudly and totally off-key. Twice through if necessary.
4) Sob liberally.
I used to reserve this ritual for Christmas Eve, but am finding it more and more necessary lately.
It takes what it takes, peoples.
(I also walk an hour every single day to my favorite tunes on my iPod. I can’t imagine my life or how insane I’d be without my daily power walks. Been doing it for decades now. Walking in the heat and humidity here in NC is the best since I sweat like a, er…something that sweats a lot. More cleansing. Plus, I am super tan!)
Keith G
@arguingwithsignposts: Arguing…..I am reluctant to join in as I know so little, still: I am recently off a course of meds. Decent results.
Looking back over many years, talk therapy was very helpful too. A very with-it psychologist (a cognitive behavior therapist) hooked me up with a counseling group. It was really useful, a good thing.
I sometimes wonder if our current love affair with all things pharmacological has gotten us away from helpful human interactions and is less than effective.
My 0.03 cents.
asiangrrlMN
@arguingwithsignposts: I have been to therapists off and on since I was fourteen. My current one is the only one who has helped at all. I could run rings around the other ones. There are many, many different type of therapies. Talk, art, sandplay, EMDR, cognitive, behavioral, cognitive-behavioral, just to name a few. In other words, it doesn’t have to be all about the drugs. However, I wouldn’t totally rule out drugs, either. There are several different kinds of anti-depressants as well. I find the old-fashioned ones (Prozac and Zoloft) to be the ones that work the best for me and for the longest.
Keep posting here. We care.
General Winfield Stuck
@Laura W:
Embrace the demons and invite them over for some rum. Not as bad a prescription as it sounds. Lots of therapists will say something similar, though prolly without the rum/wine part.
Know it, feel it, let it go. Worked for me.
John Cole
I hate to be the buzzkill, but the last damned thing anyone suffering from depression should be doing is self-medicating, especially with a depressant like alcohol. See a doctor. Don’t think you can kill the pain with a heaping helping of Dewar’s.
The street pharmacology going on in this thread is beyond stupid and is actually dangerous.
gnomedad
@Incertus:
Man, that’s a keeper. It’s one of those pieces that’s so brilliant that whether it’s “right” is really beside the point — just thinking about it makes you wiser. Thanks for pimping that one.
Delia
I can’t drink alcohol. It gives me headaches. So when I’m self-medicating for depression I’ll have a nice cup of coffee and a bit of chocolate. Joni’s good. like Laura says, but when I’m down my favorite is Dylan’s Time Out Of Mind. Some people think you should listen to happy music when you’re sad, but I prefer to listen to someone who goes through it all and comes out the other side.
Oh yeah, and I have a bunch of discs of old sci fi shows for escapism. And Balloon Juice.
HRA
Arguing: Don’t give up on the walking. It’s free and healthy.
I would not recommend any alcohol.
As it has been mentioned by many others here, you have to find the right dr. to help you. Someone close to me has begun going to a group practice of psychiatrists. The one he is seeing recommends having a visit to the MD and blood work done after the first visit. He began this route when a patient he was seeing had Lyme disease and nothing else wrong.
As has been mentioned here, most of us have had the experience of depression either personally or with a family member. It’s a bridge to be crossed, the sun coming up over the horizon, etc. Whatever we can do to help you is not too much.
Another Mom
AhabTRuler
I think this is the best advice, here.
I have to agree.
Alcohol is a really bad idea , and while I happen to think that a certain ‘medicinal herb’ (mostly) isn’t terribly harmful, I would never suggest that one use it (or anything) instead of seeing a licensed mental health professional.
gnomedad
My micro-bar of gold-press latinum:
Either your hardware or software can malfunction. Sometimes both. Don’t hobble yourself with preconceptions or conspiracy theories. Find a counselor and/or shrink (frequently one of each) you trust and keep at it until you find what works for you.
Yes, the psychiatric profession has inflicted stupid and abusive treatments on people. Yes, some doctors are lazy shills for drug companies. It sucks having to be a careful consumer at the same time that your trying to hold your psyche together. This is a work in progress.
General Winfield Stuck
The problem is, people are talking about two different kinds of depression. Those who haven’t suffered the clinical real deal kind can’t really understand it, and get it confused with the, oh shit I’m bored and the car has a flat kind.
The clinical kind is always made worse by self medicating, in the end. And especially with alcohol.
The second kind is the watb kind that a few beers can fix in the short run.
AhabTRuler
So many wise
latinasmoms.AhabTRuler
@General Winfield Stuck:
Additionally, there can be differences of degrees with depression, as well as with differences in kind. And triggers are poorly understood. What worked as a coping mechanism at one point in one’s live might fail utterly during a different depressive episode.
General Winfield Stuck
Obama gets his Ya Ya’s out and goes Blue on Blue to fight for health care. Will all the concern trolls now put a cork in it.
Engage
Make it So/
passerby
@John Cole:
Pharmaceutics aren’t for every one John. I’m not an alcoholic and I don’t advocate alcoholism. But not every thing can be cured by prescription pills.
What may be a godsend for some may not be the answer for others. Perhaps a disclaimer like “see a physician before starting any anti-depression therapy” is called for, but, speaking only for myself, self knowing and self reliance works.
About 20 years ago I sought professional help and what’s the first thing she did? Write me a fucking prescription. I didn’t fill it and two weeks later her office called saying, “oh passerby, we’re calling to see if you’re ok because we noticed you haven’t filled your prescription”. (Kick back scheme).
You go to a doctor and I guaran-dam-tee you you’ll walk out with a script for the latest money maker.
(buzzkiller)
General Winfield Stuck
@AhabTRuler:
The Human brain is the last great frontier here on earth, as complex and as poorly understood as the deepest secrets of outer space. Luckily, some medicines work wonders for many, though no one really knows why.
steve s
I highly recommend lots and lots of alcohol. 5-10 drinks per day for a normal, healthy adult.
BUT not for people with depression. It’ll just make things worse, could start a vicious cycle, etc. Depression’s very serious and should be treated with light, exercise, St. John’s Wort, and medicine if necessary.
AhabTRuler
@passerby: Yes, every doctor out there is a scam artist. Geez, why do people even want health insurance reform. They should just save their money, because it’s all pen!s meds. [ rolls eyes ]
Down and Out of Sài Gòn
Anyone who blames an American – any American – for “losing” Vietnam has committed history fail. I don’t care if they nominate Cronkite, Johnson, Nixon, McNamara, Kissinger, or Stanley fucking Kubrick for the role – it’s all false whoever they choose.
But can you blame defeat on one man? Probably not. But I reckon this guy was the next worst thing.
lotus
arguing, one other thing I’ve been meaning to say: THANK YOU from more people than you know for having the courage to pipe up the other night!
I can’t believe you weren’t speaking for some hundreds or thousands of other BJ readers in the same spot right now. Whether via brain chemistry, life situation, or the interaction of the two, there’s a helluva lot of it going around in summer 2009, and this conversation you started is undoubtedly helping some big number of onlookers (who, since this is characteristic of the syndrome, prolly thought they’re The Only One Feeling This Way And Deserving To).
So BRAVO, YOU.
passerby
@steve s:
“Depression’s very serious and should be treated with light, exercise, St. John’s Wort, and medicine if necessary.”
What steve s. said.
And to add: proper nutrition. Consider the value in simply taking some B vitamins everyday. Your energy will improve along with your outlook.
Vitamin deficiencies are probably the most overlooked condition by western medicine (of which depression is a symptom)–no money in it. FACT
Docs don’t make money by recommending daily vitamin supplements and encouraging better dietary habits. FACT.
A Cat
@D-Chance.:
Firebombing empty houses is a left-wing specialty.
Firebombing houses with people still in it is right-wing favorite.
Dennis-SGMM
@General Winfield Stuck:
How dare Obama make it difficult for Reid to roll over and play dead – again? It’s almost as if Reid is afraid to win.
passerby
@AhabTRuler:
“Yes, every doctor out there is a scam artist.”
That is not what I said Ahab. You either missed my point or are just being contentious. Either way, I can roll my eyes farther back in my head than you–anytime, anywhere.
Mouse Tolliver
I hope this means we’ll no longer be seeing ads for SarahPac and mail order brides.
General Winfield Stuck
@Dennis-SGMM:
Harry Reid is the King of Comity. That’s fine,
for losers.
Chris Johnson
Wow, I feel like I really missed something here. Um hi arguingwithsignposts :)
Maybe it’s just the gen-X in me, but somehow I am just so unshocked and unhorrified when I discover someone who is so broken they want to die (am I guessing right, judging by the reactions I’m seeing?). I’m kind of like, yeah, more collateral damage of SOMETHING somewhere that I probably don’t know about.
And if I knew, I might not be able to do a damn thing about it.
I’m totally aligned with John Cole on the street pharmacist contingent- but only for personal reasons. I was those people. It ended up making everything worse, and now I’m one of THOSE people who do things like go to meetings, try to ‘get spiritual’, etc.
Clean and sober about sixteen years now, but it still didn’t turn me into Merry Sunshine- I leaned enough in that direction that when I still go to dark, dark places, several things happen:
(1) I know somewhere inside myself that my feelings aren’t trustworthy- they can go to places that I won’t agree with later
(2) I don’t TELL anybody “Hi, I’m real tired and would like life to stop kthxbai” because I’m also real tired of nice people getting upset over my scruffy ass
(3) I hang in there and don’t break my routines, and other things eventually turn up in my life that are enough of a relief to justify my putting up with day after day of unrewarding grind and hopelessness.
Let me tell you something that happened today. I saw a Project Wonderful ad somewhere, for a guy who seems to have some kind of a project going on about can he make his living off webcomics in a year. I went to look at this guy’s stuff and it was 9000 pounds of self-absorbed marketing and bloggery. He’s spent about 20 bucks on PW ads, and has a big win/fail meter tracking how much money he’s made (zilch). I couldn’t find his damn comic easily, and he was also talking about how he had a hard time drawing one that WEEK. I was politely gobsmacked and left a comment in his blog. I may be the only person ever to leave a comment on it, from the looks of it…
Project Wonderful just recently kicked me OFF their service. They were as good as their word, though, and paid me what people had spent to run their ads on my site. I earned about 10 bucks before they booted me, which was for public yiffing- in other words, I do a furry webcomic called Tally Road and it was more explicit than they wanted comics to be.
Why have I earned ten bucks and attracted probably about 500 unique readers a day, where this other guy can’t even get a comment on his posts no matter how many blog widgets he throws at the problem?
Because I survive through my routines, and through turning the void of my existence into SOMETHING on a daily basis, no matter what. I draw Tally Road every day. Yeah, now I have readers, but I drew it when there weren’t any readers and when it was so awful that people teased me about it viciously. I have a reader who’s taught me not to be too harsh with myself, because he too is depressed and even suicidal, but he thinks it’s great stuff. If I come back at him and tell him I suck, it’s saying his opinion is worthless.
I have to be able to hang onto my routines and keep myself up and doing stuff every day, no matter how I feel- just as it’s useful to eat something each day, sleep, etc. Some people wouldn’t know what it’s like to have those apparent necessities stop mattering. I find I like the people who’ve been there as I have.
But having been there I have to admit: wouldn’t want to live there. Here on in, I will be gently cranky and pissy when I am full of “KILL ME NAO” feelings, and I’ll be like no thanks, I’m just gonna hang in here until it changes a bit. I’ll get moments that are worthwhile.
Possibly talking to someone who’s kinda like me, taking them seriously, and trying to be of help counts as a worthwhile moment.
I’m scampering around doing various things now- among other things, fooling with Blogger for my own far-too-wordy blog thing. My ex-wife used to hate me saying I was ‘scampering’ because she protested that it was like what a kitten does, and what she saw me doing was beating myself grimly into the ground with no mercy to myself at all.
And yet the one who flipped out psychotically, manufactured a bunch of impendiing, not-actually-happened threats and tore her kid (my stepkid) away from his home and all his friends, the one who destroyed our difficult but worthwhile life- was her. Not me. In a sense she set up my current life on purpose- she fretted that I didn’t have enough time to obsess over my own things, she became convinced that I hated her for consuming this time (even now I can’t hate her but Lord, I don’t want to be around her again ever) and she set it up so that I would have nothing but such obsessions in my life.
From those obsessions came other friendships, daily routines, eventually a life that I get to keep. This one can’t be taken away like the last one was.
I hope you are reasonably quick to find a life that can’t be taken away, shouldn’t be thrown away, and counts as very much your own life and nobody else’s.
Hope you don’t look at Tally Road unless you’re ok with animal people getting in all sorts of trouble. It’s pretty much the way I want it, even though I can never really be satisfied with any given day. As a PROCESS, it’s just what I want to be doing, except I wish it wasn’t so exhausting to draw- takes bloody hours.
Hope you’re not too appalled at the length of this post. Smile. Somebody thought you and your situation was worth thinking about THIS much ;)
AhabTRuler
What you say is technically true but collectively nonsense.
passerby
@AhabTRuler:
We’re talking about depression here. If you present to an MD with what amounts to depression, dollars to donuts, you’re gonna get a scrip.
I’m not talking about Alternative Therapy MDs or Naturopathic MDs, I’m talking about your garden variety, western medicine practicing MDs.
Your turn.
Dennis-SGMM
@Down and Out of Sài Gòn:
I was in the Delta during Thieu’s last run for president of Vietnam. The newspapers were shut down and the civil police were paying rewards to those who informed on their neighbors for badmouthing Thieu. Thieu’s critics often found themselves dragooned into service as unarmed battlefield labor.
I was only there in ’71-’72 and it never occurred to us to blame Walter Cronkite for the fact that we weren’t winning. We felt that the fact that our enemy was highly mobile during the day and owned the night contributed to our failure to win (Whatever the hell “win” meant). Being surrounded by a populace that was anywhere from hostile to indifferent to us while at the same time indifferent to supportive of the enemy was another little obstacle. There were a lot of reasons why we didn’t achieve a WWII-type victory in Vietnam, Walter Cronkite and the Democrats weren’t among them.
In a just world, the coprophagous little weasels who push the “We could have won in Vietnam” would have to go back and sit with me in Firepoint 5 during a 2AM sapper attack. If they ever regained the power of speech they sure as fuck wouldn’t be talking the way they are now.
WereBear
Gee, Freepers seem to love people when they are fetuses, or when they are dead.
Otherwise, they argue too much.
AhabTRuler
@passerby: Vitamins and exercise don’t always cut it.
Fern
@AhabTRuler:
Plus if you are in one of those times when any day when you brush your teeth is a good day, vitamins and exercise are not only not going to cut it, they are not going to happen.
passerby
@AhabTRuler:
“Vitamins and exercise don’t always cut it.”
What you say is technically true and…we agree. My argument is with the practice that marginalizes the effectiveness of starting with a natural approach and instead jumps directly to pharmaceuticals.
Our so called health care today suffers a lot from a one-size-fits-all mentality.
Brachiator
@passerby:
Odd, isn’t it, that vitamins were largely systematicaly discovered by Western scientists and Japanese scientists trained in Western methods (e.g., Umetaro Suzuki).
And to describe depression as a symptom of vitamin deficiency is absolute nonsense. FACT.
And this is of course why the vitamin and health food supplement industry is totally non-profit and operated by selfless individuals who have taken a vow of poverty, and whose high priest is the charlatan, uh, “humanitarian,” Kevin Trudeau.
Just Some Fuckhead
I took advantage of the downtime to get totally hooked on Faceborg. I think I’m gonna need an intervention.
lotus
In a just world, the coprophagous little weasels who push the “We could have won in Vietnam” would have to go back and sit with me in Firepoint 5 during a 2AM sapper attack. If they ever regained the power of speech they sure as fuck wouldn’t be talking the way they are now.
Standing O!
Plus if you are in one of those times when any day when you brush your teeth is a good day, vitamins and exercise are not only not going to cut it, they are not going to happen.
Eggzackle. See also: Gen. WS.
A Cat
Your brain and body are orders of magnitude more complex then an automobile. Nobody would think a bunch of random people on a politics blog would be able to correctly advise you on whats wrong if your car if it makes a eeek-ching-brrr noise when it goes around corners faster then 25mph.
Everyone is different, just like some people need a little bit of encouragement to get the can off the top shelf, other people need elaborate hi-tech solutions to get that same can. Let the people who are trained to solve these problems solve them.
A Cat
@passerby:
fixed.
Fern
@passerby:
Thing is, a lot of people do not actually get to a doctor until they are in really, really bad shape. Vitamins and exercise may well help to maintain health, and may prevent relapses, but are not enough to manage a crisis.
arguingwithsignposts
@Fern:
sounds about right. please keep talking folks if you’re here. i read them every one (when I’m not asleep today), and they all rekindle my hope in humanity.
And the psych talk is a fine line. i know people who’ve gotten help (obviously some here on BJ), but it’s been a net loss for me so far.
i’m thankful i’m alive, i’ve still got a job, and my family is safe (although I don’t live with my kids – divorced) for the moment.
passerby
@Brachiator:
“And to describe depression as a symptom of vitamin deficiency is absolute nonsense. FACT.”
Brachiator, I always enjoy what you have to say. It’s thoughtful and intelligent ( unless you’re joking around of course ) and I find myself in agreement with your view 95% of the time.
But, (excuse me while I whup this out…)
I have a masters in clinical nutrition and decades worth of experience in the field.
Please google the “FACT” you shot back a me and get back to me.
Yours truly,
passerby
Fern
@arguingwithsignposts:
See, this comment makes me a little uncomfortable.
“please keep talking folks if you’re here.”
A blog is not a therapeutic environment, nobody here has a hot clue about the circumstances of your life, and frankly, it is unfair for you to expect the readers here to “rekindle your hope in humanity”. I recommend you go find some real people who know what they are doing/talking about to support you.
Delia
@arguingwithsignposts:
Finding a therapist who’s a good fit for your personality is always a challenge. And sometimes I’ve just needed to find the right sort of distractions — junk novels, bad movies, whatever — to get through a time when my higher brain functions just seem to shut down.
If you can manage to make yourself get some exercise that actually does help, even though you really, really don’t want to do it.
TX Expat
To signposts:
I will heartily echo what many people have been saying on this thread: go to an MD. If you are in a severe depressive episode, drinking/smoking pot is only going to exacerbate it.
I don’t mean the following to discourage you, but it has taken me several years to finally figure out what the heck was going in the noggin (mainly because I didn’t have health insurance and couldn’t always afford to seek treatment).
I started out as being diagnosed with straight up depression and went through about every pill they had available. Some worked better than others and, when I could afford it, I saw a therapist as well.
Then, I started having episodes where I, genuinely, thought I was dying or something was seriously wrong with me. I would have shooting pains down my arms, chest pains, would feel nauseous for days on end and finally started passing out.
By this time, I had insurance and had a regular doctor who could run all the tests on me (at one point they thought I had epilepsy).
Turns out I have severe anxiety disorder. I can’t tell you how relieved I was! So, she put me on meds to control the anxiety and insomnia and I started seeing a MSW regularly.
I live in a different state currently but have found a new doctor/MSW that I trust and it has made all the difference in my life because at least now when I start feeling depressed I know it will pass and can recognize when I’m having a panic attack. Even though I take 3 different medications/day, it’s totally worth it because my quality of life is so much better than it was. Eating right and exercising also help a lot.
But, I won’t lie, it was a lot of trial and error and involved a great deal of patience, perseverance and brutal honesty (both with myself and my therapist) on my part. But it can be done.
And more importantly, after I got a handle on what was going on I was able to go do things that I thought I would never be able to do (for a spell, I couldn’t leave my house unless it was to go to work) – like live in the Middle East for a year and go to a demanding, high stress post-graduate program.
I read a bunch of books during that time and the one I come back to time and again is “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle.
Although we don’t know each other, all my good wishes are with you!
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@Just Some Fuckhead: It will pass. When you first get on, you get really hooked, then you realize that you don’t give rat’s ass about the vast majority of peoples’ status updates and you stop looking at it as much.
I just had my 20 year HS reunion. About 6 months ago, I got on Facebook and went hog wild in advance of the reunion (after making fun of my wife about her obsession with it) then you connect with most people and then you get bored. I have experienced a renewed interest post-reunion, but that is starting to wane…
arguingwithsignposts
@Fern:
fair enough, i guess.
But in that instance you’re partly wrong. the other day I received quite a lot of “therapy” from people on this particular political/snark blog. More than I’ve received in several months worths of visits to a licensed counselor (an hour at a time, mind you). So take it fwiw. people reach out sometimes in the channels they think they can. i’m isolated in that i’m living far away from any supportive family/friends (except for people at work – and I’m def. not going to talk to them), and this seems like a pretty supportive blog.
sorry if i’ve been honest.
A Cat
@arguingwithsignposts:
Unfortunately, like all professions, not all of the practitioners are created equal nor do they all practice the same.
To use the car metaphor again, you don’t take your Ford to the GM dealer.
Don’t give up, keep trying, switch who you are seeing if you really don’t really think you and they arent right for each other. Your motivation to get better and change your behavior is biggest factor in if you continue with your treatment. If the person who you are working with is sapping that motivation then maybe they aren’t right for you.
I wish I knew what advice to give you on how to tell if your MH professional was right for you, but if they make you not want to goto them, its really moot if they do have the treatment that you need.
arguingwithsignposts
BTW, I’ve seen several people here use the term “MSW.” is that Masters of Social Work or what?
lotus
Yes, arguing, that’s what it is.
Ruckus
John
AhabTRuler
Absolutely, all the drugs, alcohol, self improvement info boggles my mind. Someone has what appears to be an actual problem and anything other than seek medical advice from a licensed professional is just wrong.
Many of us have experienced depression and sought
help and gotten it. So we feel a kinship and want to give support, but we also can go overboard because we know how bad this can be. And how much better it can get.
A Cat
No its not and blogs are good way to avoid going to a therapeutic environment that you need if you are clinically depressed or have other MH issues.
However, a blog is a great place to get support and draw inspiration from that will help you get into that MH professional’s office and hopefully keep you on the program.
TX Expat
@arguingwithsignposts:
Yep. I don’t know if my positive experiences with them are dispositive, but for me I tend to work with someone from that background a little bit better.
I think finding a MHP you can talk to is a lot like dating: try to find someone that you click with and isn’t bonkers. ;-)
passerby
@TX Expat:
““The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle”
TX Expat, I also found this book helpful. A friend recommended it at a time when I was desperately searching for a perspective and it was helpful–I love Tolle.
Several here may think that I believe there is no place in this world for pills but, that is not true. But, I do think we have been encouraged to rely on medicine to the point where we believe that is the only recourse we have.
I have friends whose lives have been completely turned around by the use of pills. But, I worry that in placing too much confidence in medicine, we eschew our ability to learn about our lives through self discovery.
As a dietitian, I can’t help but see through the lens of proper, personal health care. Ultimately, each of us bears responsibility for our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual well being. As a rhetorical question, how did we come to rely so heavily on external help?
Good on you that you found your way.
MikeJ
Manly street walker. Some people, like Eddie Murphy, find it helps, but it’s not for everyone.
arguingwithsignposts
BTW, getting into that MHP’s office – it’s saturday. who’s open on saturday? only the ER. last time I went (for a similar funk) it was a $400 upfront cost and a few hours of sitting around before I got to lay on a table for a while, so that’s not really an attractive option.
if you’d rather i stop these updates, i’ll be happy to oblige.
the other day I thought about something interesting – the suicide websites don’t have IM capabilities. it’s always call the hotline. well, the hotline worked, but i’d be more comfortable typing out my responses and talking to someone via im. I don’t know that the net effect would have been any different. is that crazy? maybe, but seems they’d offer that option (plus the fact that they all seem to have been designed in the 1990s).
Laura W
@Just Some Fuckhead: Face Book Sucks Face.
I’m embarrassed that I even wrote on your wall over there.
Christ Almighty, Fuckhead. Were we not giving you what you need over here on BJ? Were we not enough for you? How did we let you down?
Were we not pretty enough? Are our hearts too broken? Are we too outspoken? Don’t we make you laugh? Did we cry too much? Should we try harder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TOAjoLw0aQ
SORRY I’M NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
:-(
A Cat
Take this at face value, but I’ve been using the computer to communicate with people for 25 years in one shape or another. Its an inferior good that a lot of people substitute. In lean times it will tide you over, but its not anything you can subsist on.
That and I also imagine its much harder to cull out to cranks on a suicide chatroom then on a hotline.
drillfork
@arguingwithsignposts:
Signposts, while you make an excellent point about suicide websites and their lack of IM capabilities, I find it disconcerting that you’ve actually looked into it. I hope you find the help you need.
Cole’s right — don’t take anyone out here (me especially) as a sound source of medical advice. But I think everyone’s just trying to help.
In my case, I did the anti-depressant med route for awhile in the mid 90s (Prozac, Zoloft and others). Never did anything for me. But I know of people who have been helped by these drugs.
I’ve since found vigorous exercise to be tremendously uplifting. The key is finding something you enjoy — in my case it was racquetball — so it doesn’t seem like work. Moving around regularly definitely provides an inexpensive lift. Good luck to you…
BC
#47: I remember the fire bombings of Martin Luther King’s house, the bombing of the Baptist church in Birmingham, the Oklahoma City bombing (and I’m sure I left some out that I could think of if given time) – none of these were perpetrated by lefties. So put a sock in it.
arguingwithsignposts
@drillfork:
U know, the funny thing is that it was the lack of such feedback that led me to post in the thread the other night. I knew that people at BJ would provide some instant feedback (heck, JC even e-mailed a few times) when I wasn’t wanting to spend time on an anonymous phone call to someone who was reading lines off a script ( been there, done that). I’d be more disconcerted if I hadn’t looked into it, just because that would mean my mind was too made up to look into it, but I get what you’re saying.
passerby
@arguingwithsignposts:
“but i’d be more comfortable typing out my responses and talking to someone via im ”
Occasionally, when I find myself in the dark blue funk, when I face up and admit that “what’s the fucking point of continuing this circus of life” and (personally) knowing that suicide is not an option, I’ll go to some help website and spill it. I type it all out and hit send knowing damned well that the words aren’t going anywhere because I didn’t “register” into the service.
It’s like what I was saying before, for me, I just gotta get that shit out in the open. Dump the toxins. Since my mother passed on in May, I go for days without bathing or lifting a finger around the house (good god my kitchen!). Apathy rules the day.
And to echo what lotus was saying up thread, I also think that what you did by chiming in with your emergency, took a lot of courage and gave me that “I’m not alone” feeling–well, perhaps it’s because I’ve never been where you are, I’ve never been you.
But the sun rises and the sun sets regardless of what I think or do. Please, stick around.
Screamin' Demon
It’s not an exact science. There are no tests, but there are treatments that work if you’re patient enough to see them through. I took fifteen or twenty meds before finding the one that works. If I hadn’t persevered, I’d quite likely be dead.
The pills don’t work magic. You have to work as well. No med works properly without talk therapy. You don’t just throw back a tablet and wait to be happy. If you understood that, you wouldn’t see it all as just a game.
Laura W
@MikeJ: Phew. Thanks for that. Thread needed a laugh.
BTW: Chateau Roustan, Costieres De Nimes.
Can’t find it online, but I own a case now? It’s good for 10.99/bottle.
arguingwithsignposts
@Screamin’ Demon:
I am sorry if I made it into a “game” in some cosmic sense. I’ve done the pills/talk route before. the pills seemed to dope me up, the talk didn’t seem to get many places (that may have been my own fault, i admit). i just got frustrated with the roulette part of it. “Seroquel doesn’t work, here, i’ll prescribe some prozac. or i’m out of seroquel samples, so i’ll give you (xx) drug” All of which will take a while to take effect, so if it doesn’t work, we’ll try another. All the while, I’m still the patient, getting nowhere fast.
like i said the other night, if there was a pill that worked and i knew it worked, i would gladly pay for it. But it’s incredibly hard to go through the expense and emotional turmoil of the experimental system. i guess that’s the way it’s got to be, but perhaps before we go to mars, we could remedy some of this shite, you know?
Chris Johnson
Me, I’m just gonna go feed the cats, probably make some kind of food, and go to bed. People can get upset at ‘OMG keep talking’ but I can’t be upset at that.
I’m not going to keep talking. I’m just another guy like you, ‘kay? I lead a very isolated existence for various important reasons, and however much reinforcement YOU manage to cajole out of people, I’m not going to be able to do likewise.
I CANNOT get enough hugs-n-cuddles to make up for the way I grew up, but you know what? I can still feed my cats, somewhat feed myself (money’s tight) and get up tomorrow to go through it all again.
And I picked a thing to do (a variation on cartooning) where you’ve got to be rather isolated, working alone a lot, for years, without encouragement or help. That IS what it is. Many creative or ‘glamorous’ pursuits are secretly that way- there’s a trail of blood leading up to them.
Listen, dude: normal healthy people cannot do what I do without flipping out, nor should they. It’s nice that you’ve got a pack of wild bloggers to alternately insist that you should get stoned or go to a doctor and play pin-the-antidepressant-on-the-chemical-imbalance, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re wired differently from your typical average person.
Not everybody has to be normal, you know.
I’m tempted to say that I’m sure there’s a place and purpose for you just as you are, but for all I know that would be ridiculous to say. I’ll just suspect it- and will also suspect that trying to be soothed and trying DIRECTLY to feel good isn’t gonna be your path.
Just be somebody worthwhile, in whatever way you can come up with. That is really NOT that high a bar to clear, if you don’t get too tangled up in self-absorption about it. Don’t go by your internal valuation, it’s not trustworthy. Just make a reasonable effort to be a decent person. It’s shocking how many people won’t even go that far…
Enough puppy-splinting, my cats are cranky and hungry and if I were to admit it, I probably am as well…
arguingwithsignposts
and there is the flip side of the coin, in which the person asks “why did I have to be the one who was so fucked up?”
Seriously, there are people who are so screwed on tight that they can get through dark times with the optimistic outlook. Why am I the person who goes to the dark corner? if i’m supposedly smart enough to graduate from grad school, why can’t I be the person who soldiers on?
Why do I have to be the person who wishes he could believe in a God?
Why did my brain have to be the one that was fucked up?
Wheee! :(
Chris Johnson
Beats the piss outta me dude. I’m just a damn furry. I’m not expected to know that. I’m expected to draw doggy dicks, and then throw a big hissy fit if anybody says it isn’t art :D
The few bits of that which I can try to explain, I’ll do so, as my pizza is too hot to eat right away anyhow…
I figure God is the set of all the shit I CAN’T figure out. This also means I can’t limit or delineate God, because to do so would be figuring it out. It’s the God of the Cantor’s Diagonal Argument- the additional infinity that still remains once you’ve delineated and totally understood infinity.
You can’t truly know and understand everything, but ironically you can truly know and understand THAT you can’t know and understand everything. We’re so weak, so stupid and frail- the fact that wonderful things happen EVER is quite amazing.
I’m a complete dumbass, a college dropout whose only friends are those that don’t mind not seeing him pretty much ever. The fact that I can have a life with gifts and wonders in it AT ALL is quite amazing. The fact that (whether on a blog, or at the meetings I keep going to weekly) I can ever connect to other people in such a way that they are turned on and inspired is beyond amazing and goes into the realm of true what the fuckery. I have spent upwards of forty years screaming and running from a life I can’t begin to understand or adapt to, only to find that was exactly what I was supposed to be doing the whole time, and it set me up to be somebody I would have wanted to be in the first place, but not believed in.
You might want to let go of that crazy idea that YOU are the one who has to have the Plan and have everything figured out, right down to the obligatory being secretly sad that you’ve disproved God and therefore killed the poor thing. Woopsy :D
God is laughing WITH you, not at you.
He, it, they, etc is laughing with ME as well, but ya know I’m just a damn furry, and I know perfectly well that my scruffy cat brain isn’t smart enough to fully get the joke. It’s okay. I’m not expected to, honest. I only have to look cute as I play with my toys…
Delia
@arguingwithsignposts:
Well, does it help to know that there are an awful lot of people out there who are more deeply messed up than you’ll ever know? You only see the outside of other people and everyone puts on a mask so they at least appear semi-sane to people they meet on the street or at work or whatever. So you start thinking that you’re the only one with all these horrible, terrible problems. But you’re not, really. Everyone’s got something really messed up in their life. If it’s not an emotional problem, it’ll be a physical one, or the physical or emotional suffering of a loved one. And the longer life goes on, the more all this shit starts to come out.
So whatever else you’re feeling or doing, please don’t go off on this tangent of thinking that you’re the only one suffering. Because that is absolutely not the case.
passerby
@Chris Johnson:
“… only to find that was exactly what I was supposed to be doing the whole time, and it set me up to be somebody I would have wanted to be in the first place, but not believed in.”
Yeah. Me too. One must put one’s confidence in oneself. Society would have one believe that something is “wrong with you” but, at the age of 52, I realize that everything, every sense of alienation that I have experienced since childhood, has served me in a positive way. That is, I have a sense of independence (personal power) that was gained by having to rely on my own sense of self, regardless of the opinion of others.
Many seek solace through social acceptance. (People Who Need People Are the Luckiest People in the World) But, I’ve never been a clique joiner and I’m sure as shit not into being a kiss-ass. Ergo, alienation is a familiar and potent condition for me.
Brachiator
@passerby:
This does not make you a doctor or a psychologist or psychiatrist or even particularly knowledgeable about biochemistry or human physiology, does it? Strictly speaking.
You made a multi-part assertion:
and
Where is the peer-reviewed research that demonstrates that Western medicine overlooks vitamin deficiencies, that non-Western medicine correctly diagnoses vitamin deficiencies (otherwise your distinction is meaningless), and that these overlooked vitamin deficiencies are directly related to measurable health outcomes?
Where is the peer-reviewed research that demonstrates that depression is a symptom of vitamin deficiency that is treatable by vitamins?
Now, I recognize that there may be some situations where vitamins may help with medical and mental issues, but you appear to be implying a wider application than is supported by current evidence.
That said, it is wild that a person with your background posts regularly here (I am constantly amazed by the range of talents represented here) and hope that this disagreement doesn’t seriously come between us, but I do not think that some of your assertions are as clearcut as you suggest.
By the way, I am aware of some claims about St John’s Wort as an anti-depressant, but this is not strictly speaking a vitamin, and even here the claims are not supported by the research.
For those keeping score, here are some interesting skeptic oriented links related to nutrition claims.
http://www.skepdic.com/vitacon.html
And a particularly good one here (Methodological and Statistical Issues in Adult Nutritional Research)
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/nutrition/
and here (“Dietary Supplements,” Herbs, and Hormones)
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/suppsherbs.html
Bill H
@shelley matheis:
Fascinating. I live in San Diego and have not heard about this.
passerby
@Brachiator:
“This does not make you a doctor or a psychologist or psychiatrist or even particularly knowledgeable about biochemistry or human physiology, does it? Strictly speaking.”
[sigh] I am a fool. Thinking that perhaps I could jolt “conventional wisdom” out of the discussion/debate.
To be clear, I am not asserting that vitamin deficiencies are the sole cause of depression. I am only saying that vitamin deficiencies are a primary cause of lots of maladies that are currently treated with expensive and sometimes harmful pharmaceuticals for the sake of monetary stability.
Money is the motivator behind our present “health care” system. Too many times have I seen patients used as cash cows. This is particularly painful when they are the elderly, our moms and dads, assigned to SNF units where Medicare rules the protocol of what will happen to them while they’re there.
“For those keeping score, here are some interesting skeptic oriented links related to nutrition claims.”
I haven’t the desire nor ability to debate the conventional wisdom of the efficacy of SJW.
You win.
BruceK
Sometimes trying to regulate brain activity pharmaceutically is a crap shoot, but sometimes…
The last time I got let go from a temp job, at the end of a very bad week, I ended up having what looked for all the world like a nervous breakdown; shakes, nerves, brain unable to track worth a damn, that sort of thing. I saw a psychiatrist who recommended I start up on some anti-anxiety drugs. As an aside, he recommended a full physical.
I don’t know how good the anti-anxiety drugs were, but the physical revealed something that *did* make all the difference: my thyroid hormone levels had gone *tilt*. My immune system was attacking my thyroid, which was responding by over-producing all of its products, causing a bunch of psychological effects as well as some physical issues. Going on a regimen of thyroid-suppressant meds did the trick. (Until a relapse a couple of years later, but that’s another story.)
So in the face of psychological issues, a physical checkup is often not a bad idea.