Oh Noes! Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer took a break from administering forced abortions to white teenage girls and designing the new death panels for your granny to pen an op-ed in USA Today:
However, it is now evident that an ugly campaign is underway not merely to misrepresent the health insurance reform legislation, but to disrupt public meetings and prevent members of Congress and constituents from conducting a civil dialogue. These tactics have included hanging in effigy one Democratic member of Congress in Maryland and protesters holding a sign displaying a tombstone with the name of another congressman in Texas, where protesters also shouted “Just say no!” drowning out those who wanted to hold a substantive discussion.
These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.
I’m hard pressed to find anything objectionable about that. Showing up at a health care forum screaming “tyranny” in unison with your tea party meetup or your Glenn Beck group so that no one can discuss anything is childish, immature, and an attempt to drown people out and intimidate. If these folks had the facts on their side, I’d wager they wouldn’t need to engage in this sort of behavior.
Alas, the wingnuttosphere wants to fight for their right to hang folks in effigy while screaming about socialism, and there is some profund angst on display at memeorandum:
That’s a wingnut Who’s Who.
I wonder what they’d have to say about the recent declaration in an Investor’s Business Daily editorial that because of Stephen Hawking’s neuromuscular dystrophy, he would be denied medical care and left to die if he lived in England.
@neff: Good thing he’s not English. Oh, wait.
“Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. ”
Of course, the quote for Halperin et al. will be “Pelosi/Hoyer call conservatives ‘un-American.'” None of the brilliant minds in our press core will be able to understand the simple distinction between criticizing a behavior (chanting and shouting in public meetings) and writing off entire states and regions as not really American.
How dare she? Now the wingnuts will cry over the inhumanity of it all. Like Sarah Palin said after accusing Obama of wanting to kill her baby, can’t we just be civil?
to me, the really sad part about this is that the GOP has forfeit their side of the conversation so now the debate over what to do is now just a debate between the Blue Dogs and the insurance companies over how best to enrich the insurance companies – and the media doesn’t find that very interesting. the result will be garbage.
we really do need some changes in our health care system, and everybody knows this; but since the GOP has gone Full Wingnut Monty, the debate over what to do has taken second place to watching the wingnuts wank for the cameras.
Nah, they should have called them un-American.
Isn’t that funny? It is like the right goes out of their way to prove they are clueless f-ups.
littlegreen footballs is full of “the left have been attacking people for years, but we shouldn’t” – which basically amounts to as close to an apology as we’re ever going to see.
basically the teabaggers could lynch someone and our lady of perpetual outrage would say that the victim had it coming.
Stupidity so dense that light cannot escape it.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Oh Noes! Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer took a break from administering forced abortion to white teenage girls and designing the new death panels for your granny to pen an op-ed in USA Today
That sir, is priceless.
I’m starting to think some, if not most, of these people left the land of facts–also known as reality–a long, long time ago.
Most of the proposals that have fairly broad agreement have nothing to do with limiting care but rather are designed to ensure access, like making sure that you don’t lose your insurance if you lose your job. The controversial parts of the bill include setting up an exchange to allow those who cannot currently afford coverage to buy into a system more efficiently and altering the incentive structure by limiting some Medicare payments based on an independent assessment of what works and what doesn’t. You’d think that people who have bitched and moaned about Medicare since its inception would be happy that we’d try to slow its growth but apparently not. From what I’ve seen, they either complain that is unfair to people already on it, an odd claim from those who spent the last few decades trying to limit care in a heavy handed, no-questions-asked way. These same people, by the way, warn that it won’t be easy to make these changes, which is actually true, since they are the ones standing in the way! I guess you could call this “rationing,” but only if you are speaking in the boundaries of the Medicare program itself. Virtually nobody is proposing to outlaw private medicine, so there really isn’t any rationing. If you don’t like the public option, nobody will force you to buy into it, and even if you end up on it, I don’t see how this means that you are unable to purchase additional care.
The only rational objection to this is the notion that you shouldn’t have to pay more in taxes. That’s a value judgment, but virtually any plan, from the left, center, or right, will require more revenue, so unless you think there’s nothing wrong with the system, you can’t object to higher taxes to finance increased coverage–unless you just don’t give a damn.
But the people becoming hysterical about forced abortion and euthanasia are simply nuts. There’s no rational basis for these suggestions, and while people in charge can’t always be held responsible for when some nutjob takes a gun and decides to “fight back,” they could easily do whatever it takes to denounce them. That they aren’t doing but instead pouring gas onto the flames of this nonsense means they will have blood on their hands if things continue to spiral downward.
I find the comparisons of these protests and crazy wingnut shouting to the protests the dems made during the Bush Administration really interesting.
A lot of the protests from the left during the past eight years were about the Iraq war, and stuff that we as a country had already committed to doing to other countries.
And now we’re just TALKING about trying to make a change in our own country and people are shouting their heads off at town halls.
Shorter Right wing:
“Do whatever you want to those brown people over there, but don’t even think about trying to change anything in my country.”
It does not matter what Pelosi actually said in the op-ed– what the wingers hear is “Pelosi…(background noise)… Pelosi… (background noise)… Pelosi.”
The facts have a notoriously liberal bias.
We have passed up, “Hammer on the facts” and “Hammer on the law” and are deep into “Hammer on the table” territory here.
Obama has a better plan than the status quo currently offers. We can argue whether it’s a better plan than Medicare-for-all or Co-Ops or whatever, but it beats the hell out of the private insurance state-by-state monopolies currently running.
If these folks had the facts on their side, they’d be hard pressed to argue any of their absurd points. If the GOP doesn’t lie loud and proud, it doesn’t have a case to stand on.
@ John Cole: Is there hidden meaning in the fact that you named that image JPG from Memeorandum – “Butthurt”?
@Hunter Gathers: Hawkings has an American accent.
If nothing else, these people show that mental health care in this country isn’t up to the needs of its people.
Well to their credit, at least the teabaggers waited until a time of peace to go out and scream “Death Panel!” and make dark threats about bringing their guns to public town hall meetings. It isn’t as if they are attempting to undermine the duly elected govt. while we have two wars going on and teh troops need to be supported, like those DFH did. It warms the cockles of my heart to see them supporting the idea that dissent is patriotic.
Conservatives already declare most of the nation not “real America” (Murrika).
ZEKE EMANUEL AND OBAMA WANTS TO KILL MAI BABIE
Saying that things like shouting down the handicapped trying to speak is un-American.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
So anti-health care reform protester Kenneth Gladney, “injured” at a St. Louis town hall, has no insurance and is seeking donations to cover the cost of his care.
Irony is dead, parody is on life support, and satire has been euthanized by the Death Panel.
Well now that did it. Look forward to Eric Cantor holding a press conference saying Pubs would have voted for health care reform but Pelosi dissed their screeching teabagging birther/deather brethren.
What makes that doubly funny is that I bet you that is basically why they made that mistake. They just perceived him as American because his computer generated voice carries an American accent.
(Total aside, you have to wonder what Hawkings thinks of that).
As much as I agree with the general sentiment, I think it was a little politically tone-deaf of Pelosi and Hoyer to use the word “un-American” like that. The moment I read that this morning, I just knew the right-wingers would distort the statement and freak out over it, and Pelosi and Hoyer should have known that too.
Or maybe that was the point.
Joey Maloney a/k/a The Bard Of Balloon Juice
Gary Larson actually addressed about this phenomenon many years ago.
Joey Maloney a/k/a The Bard Of Balloon Juice
…Stupid no-preview no-edit comments.
@4tehlulz: LOLcats meets blood libel? That deserves a round of applause.
Ezra Klein has a interview with Lindsay Graham at the Washington Post.
Lindsay obviously thinks that it’s okay to use tax payer money to reward the private sector even though less taxpayer money would be used to set up a public option.
Is it time yet to move Tom Maguire into “Monitor And Mock As Needed” yet?
No-preview and no-edit make Homer something-something.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Yeah, you’re probably right. Also: fuck ’em. FUCK THEM. I’m fed up with these morons. Fuck ’em. Elections have consequences. In the words of the sorely missed Dr. Thompson, “these swine should be broken, fucked, and driven across the land.”
@ Napoleon, #22
I haven’t heard any sound clips of Hawking lately, but certainly 5-10 years ago when he used to give talks or interviews, his synthesized voice was a fairly crude robotic monotone, and (as I’m sure you are referring to) in every speech or interview he’d a cute joke about his California accent – in reference to the people who made the synthesizer, rather than any detectable regional pattern in the synthesized voice.
For example: it would be great if I could edit my previous post’s glaring redundancy.
The Moar You Know
@Darius: It has the undeniable advantage of being true.
@Darius: I don’t agree that this was politically tone-deaf. I’m all in favor of taking the idiocy the right wing spews and throwing it back at them, since it sticks to them much better.
The Moar You Know
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon): My irony gland just burst. Who can I see about that?
I see nothing wrong or embarrassing with that headline: these substance-free attacks are utterly un-American. To Pelosi and Hoyer I say “Run with it!” Don’t apologize to someone who’s stepping on your foot.
Well considering anything the Democrats would say in defense of health care and against screaming idiots would be taken as TEH TYRRANNNY!!!11! It hardly matters if Pelosi called them “misguided citizens” “insolent children”, “Republican henchmen” or “Blackshirted fascist scumbags” — it’s always about the clutched pearls and the whiny victim status of our conservative opposition.
So fuck it. Call their tactics Un-American (of COURSE it was the point — do you think someone as fatally compromised as Steny Hoyer and as ineffectual as Nancy Pelosi would actually write these things if it wasn’t, at long last, merited?). Call them names. Bring bats to the meetings. Embrace union “thugs”.
It’s all about bullying the “undecideds” anyway. And I think bullying in favor of health care and a public option beats bullying on behalf of multi-billion dollar corporations and shitty health care. It’s imperfect, but that’s democracy for you.
Or we could just get rolled again by bought-and-paid-for neo-Pinkertons and the reactionary idiots who would rather let you die than get treatment.
Anyone see the stupid ass Human Events story that said if Stephen Hawking lived in Britain, their government would deem him unworthy of health care? Oh yeah, except he’s lived in Britain his entire life, and he’s not dead yet! Huh, what, these people are morans?
Leelee for Obama
@Joey Maloney a/k/a The Bard Of Balloon Juice: A gazillion years ago, when I was the crazy cat lady in my ‘hood, he did a cat version of that cartoon. I had it on my fridge till it just disintegrated.
If Stephen Hawking can laugh, he’s doin’ it now!
Or the timeless classic: “Don’t piss on my boots and tell me it’s raining!”
That’s a pipe dream.
Everyone knows we need immigration reform, too, and that “debate” turned into a hysterical screaming match a lot like this one, and the Democrats were only tangentially involved.
It was talk radio, Lou Dobbs and a mob of screeching fools, and a coupla Republicans trying to be heard over the din.
There’s a pattern here. They are trying, and succeeding, to simply block any reform of any kind.
There’s an excellent rant over at Southern Beale:
Don’t talk to me about death panels
(I hope I got the coding right.)
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon): Gotta agree with that. We need more people to respond to the teabaggers with comments like that, comments like “Who cares what a bunch of drooling inbred mouth-breathers are frothing?”
Look at the new Lefty Libtard Soci’alist!
John Freakin’ Cornyn (R(INO)-TX)
What puts the cherry on the wingnut sundae is this little gem:
An anti-healthcare activist claims he was injured by union thugs while disrupting a St. Louis town hall meeting is now begging for money to pay for his injuries because he’s….
Wait for it….
Uninsured ! ! !
But you probably saw that one coming from a mile away.
Joe the Plumber’s heir apparent.
@Ash Can: But that would involve using facts & stuff.
I’m surprised there are no front page posts on Kenny Gladney yet. I’d have thought someone, by now, would have jumped at the chance to use the headline: “Citizen Ken”.
I’ve been pretty impressed by Pelosi lately (the last month or so) – she really has held her forces together (unlike Reid) and is standing her ground on policy as well.
Plus every time the right claims she lied about something (CIA stuff, nazi imagery at townhalls), she’s been vindicated (even if the press doesn’t cover it).
I’m (grudgingly?) becoming a fan of Pelosi.
SOLUTION is not trying to cut doctor salaries or limit insurance company profits,etc. – the solution is to BE RICHER. Capitalism built the high standard of living we enjoy and ONLY CAPITALISM can sustain it!
Liberals are raping what the FREE market built and the demise of health care is only the beginning of what’s to come if they continue to squelch our ability to BE prosperous. The number ONE thing that brings prosperity is FREEDOM and they are chipping away at our freedom every way they can.
You want even cleaner air and water? CUT TAXES! You want more people to afford high quality health care? CUT TAXES! You want more kids to get a college education? CUT TAXES! … etc.
Saw this on Malkin’s blog here today and knew I had to show someone else. I’m moderately skilled at translating wingnut, but this has really perplexed me. Is this satire? Is this truth? Is this the first signs of the grand wingnut unification? It’s like staring into an abyss of stupidity, so easy to be lost within …
He’d probably be annoyed about people calling him “Hawkings” rather than “Hawking”. But apart from that, he’d likely appreciate the irony; my understanding is that he has a wicked sense of humor, err humour.
@neff: LOLZ! I clicked through the links to see if the IBD editorial had a comments thread. It doesn’t, which is a shame. It would have been freaking hilarious.
@Napoleon: Hawkings could include more uses of toff and wanker in his lectures to indicate he’s not American.
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon): I’m fine with calling people who drown out conversation un-American. I might be more inclined to agree with you if it’s a goddamned fact that un-American has been used as an epithet since at least the early twentieth-century to silence dissent, mostly on the right. As a result, people on the right can call their opponents un-American without anyone batting an eye, while the right can claim the ghost-mantle of being the True Americans.
Make no mistake about this country. The radical right wing thinks they are the True America. Anytime there’s a democratic president, they start hankering to invalidate, harass, or kill the domestic enemies of these United States. There is no point to try to have a conversation with these people when they don’t even recognize our status as fellow citizens. Why do you think they don’t want us to talk? We don’t have any rights to do so.
Those bastards ARE un-American. This country was not founded on the rights of kings. It was founded on the rights of man, and the enlightment ideals of reason, of which reasoned debate is the life blood. Free speech was the in the first amendment for a reason.
Maybe Nancy and Steny should have called them rude assholes or better yet maybe they should have said that your momma must be so proud to see you act so rude.
Where’s Red Kitten? She could rewrite that headline in a flash.
Pelosi and Hoyer are trying to whip the GOP up into a tizzy and this is a pretty brilliant way to do it. No way this gets enough play to make a difference, but the reaction will. Make the protests even more vociferous and absurd and it’ll work in the Dems favor… moderate Republicans will want to distance themselves from the fringe. The same strategy worked well for Bush in ’03.
That time came and passed two years ago at least.
Sort of on this topic, I am hoping you all can help me make a wingnut be quiet for a few minutes. A good and otherwise intelligent friend is part of the Glenn Beck posse and doesn’t believe that people are really bringing swastikas to protests. She asked me to send her pictures as proof. I sent the 4 posted at Think Progress (and Daily Dish) along with the 1 of of the teenager in the Hitler shirt, but do you all know of any others? I could swear I saw more, but can’t find them now and don’t want to have to listen to Wingnut gloat.
@Darius: The optimist in me says that the fact that America elected Obama and Democrats by big margins in ’08 means that the American people can see right through bullshit like this, and Pelosi and Hoyer baited the wingnuts on this one.
The realist in me points to David Letterman having to apologize for a joke he didn’t make. That and assuming that a Democrat whose name is not Obama is being clever is a childish fantasy.
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon):
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Hawkings has an
. . . and mac, bugger, loo, helter skelter, bly me, pissed (in the English sense) and bum.
Conservative wingnuts can’t contain themselves, never could. I was reading a book about the violence when the south was desegregated and the hate and ignorance was the same low-intelligence, lizard brain babble you’re starting to see today. Claims that the priests and nuns were fakes who rented their clothes just to sneak in and have sex with “the coloreds”.
Southern lawyers claiming the murdered civil rights workers deserved to be killed because the white women were riding in cars with ni**ers and not wearing any underpants.
They can’t help themselves. And it’s our job to point out what uneducated, greedy, low-life sons-of-bitches they all are.
@amocz: Because if Kenny Gladney had insurance, that you-tube video of him hopping right up after falling down would be exhibit 1 for denying his claim anyway.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Remember: one of the classic Rovian tactics is to make people so disgusted with the political process that they cease to participate.
They may know more now about the attendees.
“Please don’t yell out,” Cohen commanded. “This is America. This is Memphis, Tennessee. Take two Aspirins and come back in the morning.”
According to the Memphis Commercial Appeal, the largely white and conservative audience was not politically reflective of Cohen’s Democratic, majority-black district. In fact, multiple people came in who didn’t actually live inside the district.
House members don’t even pretend to listen to you if you don’t live in their district, or won’t vote for them, ever. Understandably, I think.
If you wind the clock back to the pre-inaugural secessions after the election of Abraham Lincoln, you’ll find the conduct to be the same.
I think this notion of unwillingness to even discuss “big issues” (much less address them) is a genuine cultural defect of the Scots-Irish Calvinists of the South.
True, but I guess I was thinking more along the lines of there is nothing particularly English about it, and I would bet $1000 if there was some way to prove it that whoever wrote that just reflexively thought he was an American because there was no obvious outward clue that he was not, so therefore he must be an American (in their mind).
@cathaireverywhere: You might try going to Daily Kos and doing a search for stories and diaries on the town hall meetings. The folks there aren’t bashful about posting pictures like that, and you might find what you need.
Here’s another. I got no problems if you are following the letter of the law, i.e. concealment of firearms, but WHY DO YOU NEED TO BRING A CONCEALED WEAPON TO A TOWNHALL??? What the F*IN POINT?
Oh and BTW, the audience was mostly white, even though this Rep’s district is predominantly BLACK!!!! But of course these are REAL protestors, not bussed in right???
Gun Carried Into Dem Congressman’s Town Hall — But Did Not Pose Any Threat
“According to the Memphis Commercial Appeal, the largely white and conservative audience was not politically reflective of Cohen’s Democratic, majority-black district. In fact, multiple people came in who didn’t actually live inside the district”
I suspect she is a bit preoccupied right now.
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon):
It feels like immigration to me. Do you remember how they seized on “amnesty”, which was a lie? They love words like that. The idea that anyone is getting away with anything, anywhere, drives them insane with anger.
Cornyn was booed by the lunatics for suggesting that he felt children should be provided access to medical care. It’s a completely uncontroversial statement. It’s baloney, coming from him, but still. They went crazy. They’re afraid someone somewhere is going to get something without paying for it, even if that person is like, a kindergartner.
A minor fix, perhaps, but as someone who grew up amongst these bigots on the back side of the Appalachians in Pennsylvania, I think it’s important to note that particular culture isn’t just relegated to the south.
The Moar You Know
@cathaireverywhere: If 5 pictures aren’t enough, nothing will be. Leave your wingnut friend to her ignorance and both of you can have some peace and quiet, and perhaps talk of other things.
@ cathaireverywhere, #56
It’s online activity, not protestors, but there was another Andrew Sullivan post a few days earlier than the post with the four protester images, a post about people using really crude analogies to call the Obama campaign’s effort for health care reformer a bunch of Nazis – and if you follow the links from the post you’ll see a lot of conservative enthusiasm.
Still, I think your friend is a lost cause. I don’t listen to talk radio, but given the stuff I see reported about outbursts from Beck and Limbaugh, etcetera, if they’re fine with listening to it they have no interest in a rational debate.
Case in point I saw an overlay of those areas inhabited by that ethnic group both after the primaries and after the general election and they were subtantially less likely to vote for Obama then demographics would have otherwise predicted (much, much more, actually).
@Napoleon: “Blimey, but that black ‘ole ‘as buggered the shite out of passing light waves. It’s the rubbish bin of trans-temporal existence for those poor blighters.”
@Joshua Norton: LOL! How appropriate that he’s named Kenny. i need that guy’s mailing address so I can send him a postcard which says
OT Froomkin finally has an article up at Huffpo.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
If I want to read intelligent criticism of the administration, liberals or Nancy Pelosi I think I’ll read Greenwald or Froomkin. BTW Froomkin just put up his first piece at HuffPo.
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Hawkings has an
American IBMMacintosh accent.
They bring guns everywhere. Then they have to take them off and put them in the car. I don’t get it either. It might just be sort of a fashion fad.
Perfect! You ought to have a chair in the physics department at University of Cambridge.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Admirable, but probably hopeless.
I have friends/classmates from the rural Indiana town where I grew up; some of us have been friends since kindergarten, i.e. 50 years. Two of them recently informed me that I’m dead to them, that our friendship is over, simply because I support Obama and am for UHC. I didn’t insult them, I didn’t point and laugh, I simply have the wrong thoughts in my brain.
@Xenos: Do we know that or are we just guessing?
@kay: You might want to read the article on Cohen’s town hall meeting again. The story (which I have in front of me at this very moment, as I’m a subscriber) mentioned two people at the meeting that were not residents of the 9th Congressional District. One, against a government plan, was from Olive Brach, a Memphis suburb just across the state line. The other, for the government plan, was from Tupelo, MS, two hours away by car.
You must be confusing the story in the Commercial Appeal with the postings you read on Firedoglake.
Your right about the racial make-up of those attending the town hall meeting not reflecting the racial make-up of the 9th Congressional district (99.9% in Shelby County). I wonder why more African Americans didn’t show up?
@Church Lady:<strong? I wonder why more African Americans didn’t show up?
Hank Johnson is having a town hall meeting tonight in DeKalb county. He has Cynthia’s old seat and is doing a great job. It’s tempting to move a little south just so I can have a decent rep. Anyway the meeting has been advertised heavily by both pro and against health care reform. I’m not going but the local media has been covering the town hall meetings around here and I’ll post later this evening if I have any info. Obama managed to get the blacks to the polls and now he ill has to help keep them engaged.
Um yeah, it surely surpasses all understanding why AA’s would not want to show up to a meeting with angry riled up white people unable or willing to listen to reason and itching for a fight, some of whom are probably packing heat. And that in Memphis of all places, too. I can’t imagine what they were thinking.
What the folks that oppose The Stalin/Hitler takeover of the United States lacks is an anthem they can sing along. The chorus is an easy one. One they can sing with pride and devotion.
funny bit: “I am an American Conservative Shithead.”
Sister Machine Gun of Mild Harmony
Now surely you don’t want to be accused of killing Kenny??
@Leo: Gawd, I hate hate hate to stick up for Halperin, but he’s definitely taking sides over these Town Halls, and he’s calling the behavior of the teabaggers “Disgraceful.” On Morning Joe today, he repeated the claim continuously, despite Scarborough going for some kind of Phony Equivalence Olympic Medal by telling Halperin “The Left is every bit as disgraceful and has been since 1968.”
As far as I’m concerned, though, I bristled a bit at the Pelosi-Hoyer “un-American” thing. It made me sick when Bushies called us that for marching in war protests, and it still makes me a little sick now. I’d prefer “un-democratic.” Oh, and also “annoying, rude, and obnoxious.”
I didn’t read anything on Firedog Lake. If they mentioned two that they identified as non-district residents, I don’t think that means that there were two non-district residents there.
I completely buy than many of these people may be from the District, and I buy that they can certainly attend a Town Hall meeting, in any event.
What I question are whether they were or are ever voting for Democrats. Because if they’re opposed to health care reform, and more broadly, all of the myriad other huge ideological statements they have on those signs, they probably don’t vote for Democrats. It isn’t a secret that Democrats are pro-reform. They all ran on it, and have been doing so since 1994.
I live in a conservative House district. I’m meeting with my ultra-Republican rep Wednesday morning. One thing he doesn’t have to worry about is losing my vote over his opposition to health care reform. He’s never gotten it, nor will he, because he and I are poles apart. He knows it, and I know it.
When I hover my cursor over the USA Today screenshot it says “butthurt” in a little box……what the hay?????
I bet that Ken Gladney is REALLY sorry that he listened to the lawyer that approached him shortly after he fell down. How could he have possibly predicted that going to the emergency ward without insurance might not turn out so well? Who would have guessed that his appearance in a wheelchair would elicit emotions other than sympathy. Karma’s not going to be kind to Kenny.
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Or the timeless classic: “Don’t piss on my boots and tell me it’s raining!”
This should have a corollary: Don’t apologize to the guy who just shot you in the face. But, thanks to the neocons, that’s not the world we inhabit, unfortunately.
Leelee for Obama
@JenJen: I understand the nausea, JenJen, but not allowing public discourse at a public information venue technically is un-American. It’s also impolite and obnoxious, but we’re supposed to debate the issues, and they are preventing that, hence their title.
The people that voted for this House member expressed their feelings when they pulled the lever. Then they won. I don’t think it’s at all mysterious why they aren’t showing up to “support” the reform they voted for. They didn’t know, apparently, that we were going to put every issue up to an individual vote, based on who screams the loudest, like some sort of crazed ballot measure. Maybe they “get” civics. They have a representative vote in the House, and he’s voting their way. That’s why they elected him. If we changed the rules, no one told them.
Interesting, isn’t it, that a Republican troll who calls itself “Church Lady” turns out to be a fucking racist. Quite instructive, I would say….
The sad truth is, if Stephen Hawking had been been born into a poor American family who couldn’t afford healthcare, he’d probably have been dead years ago. You know, pre-existing condition and all.
Stupid, stupid, stupid people.
Oh, and I only caught of few minutes of Terry Gross talking about the whole euthenasia brouhaha on Fresh Air today and I have one thing to say: Jay Sekulow is still a dickhead. Nowadays it should be patently obvious that if you start a sentence with “Even though I’m a conservative…” whatever follows is going to be pure, unadulterated horseshit. He finally got around to insisting doctors were going to be paid bonuses for every old person they convinced to sign a DNR.
I got out of the car before I took an ax to the radio.
It is now incumbent on every supporter of a Democrat to not only come out and vote, but come out and vote on every legislative item.
Of course, then we could just skip House elections entirely, and we’ll all be as fabulously well-governed as California, where the loudest best-funded interest groups make the laws.
Was Jay on Terry’s show? I don’t know who he is but if so I will not download that one as a podcast.
Just an observation on how crazy this is getting…
I work as a barista in an independently owned coffee shop in the bluest area of Virginia, Alexandria. We had Obama cupcakes for the inauguration and you still see Obama shirts and bumper stickers everywhere.
Yesterday some dipshit came into my shop wearing a shirt that says “Liberalism Breeds Terrorism” on the front. At that point I was so angry that I knew I could not serve him. Then I saw the back…”Terrorism Breeds Liberalism”. The rank stupidity of this shirt in light of these teabag town halls is breathtaking. I just couldn’t believe I was seeing this in Alexandria. I was born and raised in Memphis…so I could see it (and more) there. I really think that someone is going to be killed by these loons.
I’m so tired of this ignorant, fear-mongering crap that I could scream.
As a fun aside…Radley Balko and Chris Cilizza are among my regulars. I felt bad for laughing so hard at Two Dudes and a Webcam but Chris should have known better.
I believe this is the origin of “I am an American Conservative Shitheel.”
Quoting Kay, above:
“According to the Memphis Commercial Appeal, the largely white and conservative audience was not particulary reflective of Cohen’s Democratic, majority black district.”
Quoting the August 9, 2009 report on the town hall meeting in The Commercial Appeal:
“The nearly all-white audience was not a snapshot of the mostly African-American 9th District that Cohen represents.”
I’m not a racist, but you are obviously a conclusion jumping asshole. I’ve never said this to anyone here before, but SixStringFanatic, FUCK YOU.
My only objection to the claim “Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American” is that it’s not true.
I think it’s wrong to continue to compare opponents to supporters, although I know that is now the accepted frame. When I went to get a meeting with my conservative rep’s staffer, his calendar was empty. I think that’s because I live in a 60-40 R-D county, and the majority of his voters are pleased as punch that he opposes every Democratic initiative.
That’s why they put him in there. I accept the results of that election, and I’ll try again next time, unlike the tea party people, who seem to want an actual vote in the House, or it’s “tyranny”.
I am curious about our new direct democracy system. If we’re going to skip the representatives and go to ballot measures, I insist on an actual ballot, rather than measuring by television coverage.
@49: that’s a spin of one of Limbaugh’s old lines, basically the only answer to everything is cutting taxes, because that means people can keep more of their money and thus will automatically be better.
@McCormick: My only objection to the claim “Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American” is that it’s not true.
I like going by what made America special at its founding, and what the ideal America is. That’s the theoretical / ideal America.
By historical standards, Obama should be making jazz records in Paris right now, not leading a national debate as President.
@wasabi gasp: Ah, Something Awful. I used to love me some Jeff K. That shit still cracks me up.
I literally only heard 15 minutes — the dog and I had to run out for some cold drinks.
It started someone giving the facts about what’s in the bill vis-a-vis end of life care, the Sekulow came on to concern troll about “Even though I’m a conservative, I realize end of life care is important, I just went through this with my wife’s mother, blah, blah, blah.” And ended up with him saying if you read the WHOLE BILL, it was obvious that doctors would be paid a bounty for each dead old lady they reported to the evil government.
The had a medical doctor who is bioethicists coming on next to rebut Sekulow, but by then it was time for me to get out of the car. The rest of the podcast may be listenable, but the 10 minutes I heard was maddening. I will give Terry Gross extra points for sounding incredulous at every word that Sekulow was spouting, but take away points for her not calling him a lying jackass to his face.
Kay, I’m not quite sure I understand your point. You made the observation that:
1. Many of the people at Steve Cohen’s town hall were not people that resided in the district and used The Commercial Appeal report as the basis for that claim. I pointed out that the paper said no such thing, only that they mentioned, and quoted, two different people from outside the district – one for and one against the health care plan, and
2. That the attendees at this town hall meeting didn’t reflect the make up of the district. I assumed you were pointing to race, as the paper did, rather than political leanings. If you were not referring to race, then I apologize for misunderstanding your point. However, as to political leanings, although I would also bet that the opponents to the health care plan were probably conservative in nature, I wouldn’t state it as a fact since I wasn’t there and the paper didn’t delve into the opponents political leanings.
By the way, it might interest you to know that almost every Conservative/Republican I know likes Steve Cohen, thinks he does a good job in general, and voted for him in both 2006 and 2008. Steve Cohen’s opponents in this district are primarily African-Americans that don’t think a white jew is capable of representing African-American interests, i.e., see Willie Herenton and his cohorts.
@inkadu: To me, it sounds like Hawking has the accent of a 1970’s Texas Instruments Speak and Spell.
Sweeping generalizations are FUN!
Expect a Screamer campaign to boycott the swine flu vaccine, because it was developed by the CDC heading up a government-run and government-funded program.
@bob h: I don’t doubt it.
Half of the point of vaccination is herd immunity — vaccinating enough people so that the virus doesn’t have the opportunity to reach vulnerable members of the population.
Vaccines don’t always work. Any time someone rejects a vaccine, they are getting the benefits of herd immunity, while putting the rest of us at risk.
We should do what horses would do and push those folks to the edge of the herd where the wolves can get them.
Wile E. Quixote
If there is such a campaign I will do everything I can to further its aims of making sure that wingnuts remain unvaccinated while simultaneously praying for massive outbreaks of swine flu to come along and wipe the bastards out. These people are are nothing more than worthless oxygen thieves.
Sweeping generalizations might be fun, but that wasn’t one of them. Since I live here, and you don’t, you might want to perhaps do just a little research before you unleash the snark, or at least try and remember Cohen’s run against Nikki Tinker last year.
Perhaps a quote from Willie Herenton, our now former mayor, who is planning to challenge Cohen in the Democratic primary (which IS the election here) might be helpful: “..it remains a fact that the 9th Congressional District provides the only real opportunity to elect a qualified African-American to the all-white 11-member delegation…”
[email protected] 41
I don’t agree that they are successfully blocking reform with their antics — unless their antics become an excuse for our Democratic leaders to waffle..
I think that the screamers are greatly undermining their own cause. They look absolutely weird — their reactions out of proportion and wildly unrelated to what is being expressed. Also, having started their opposition at such a high decibel and hysteria level leaves them nowhere to go…what next ? Jumping up and down on their heads? If they hurt somone, they basically crush any legitimacy to what they are doing.
Its all theater anyway. Banging drums and screaming to distract and inflame. They aren’t really any good at it either…
We should laugh at them. Point and laugh at them then ignore them.
Ah, I just knew John would have the correct, reasonable view on this. Why did John abandon the Right? Maybe because he can read English, and/or he’s not bent on spinning unambiguous statements from his opponents to his advantage:
“Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.”
Pretty clear, isn’t it? It’s the same thing the Malkin-bots and assorted wingnuts have been saying for years when leftist activists disrupt conservative speakers. Only this time, instead of liberals being the brownshirts, it’s… er, the liberals again. Dang it! The right wing is armed to the teeth with double standards and hypocrisy! All we’ve got is the truth! Maybe Soros can help us.
(That said, this is one of the few areas where I’d agree with Malkin—drowning out others is not acceptable. Counter demonstrating is totally cool, but shutting them up through mere volume is not).
@Zach: I just hope they’re issuing bulletproof vests to Congresspeople.
I hope you’re right. The fact is though, we never had a national debate on immigration. You know why we didn’t? People like this.
I’m pissed. I’m tired a vocal minority of angry right wingers running the national conversation. The whole freaking reason we have a representative system is to guard against a lunatic fringe making bad public policy on the fly, in their individual self-interest, without a second freaking THOUGHT for tomorrow. See: California.
Oh, Church Lady, come on. We can make some assumptions about political leanings in a district like that. It’s heavily minority, and they elected a Democrat. Most African-Americans in this country are Democrats, and that was true long before Obama. if it’s a heavily black district, and the crowd was 99% white, you tell me.
I didn’t make any reference to race. I don’t care. I think YOU don’t care. I don’t think you’re a racist. I’m talking about Democrats.
You seem to be determined to convince people here that tea party members are Democrats, or “swing voters”. I don’t think that’s true. I guess I can’t prove it, but I think my presumption is a hell of a lot stronger than yours.
Over 65 is the only demo Obama lost. Am I shocked an amazed they aren’t comfortable with him reforming health care? No. They never trusted him. That’s why they didn’t vote for him.
I agree as well. But Malkin wouldn’t stop at calling their tactics un-American–she’d call the protesters un-American too.
@Church Lady: Sorry, Church Lady. But I’m experienced enough to recognize an African Americans vs. Jews dog whistle, especially when it’s as blatant as yours was.
Why did you leave the Jewish thing out of your explanation?
You sir are full of crap. It was YOU people that BITCHED and rightfully so; when the Bush Administration said that being against them was Un-American. I thought then and still do, that they were WRONG to say that. Now it seems that the Socialists are taking a page out of the Bush Administration’s playbook. It will be to their downfall in the end.
Neither of these Parties, Republican or Democratic are Moral or political absolutes and anyone that questions someone’s loyalty to America or one’s patriotism reeks of desperation and is a sign that they need to be voted out of office.
Read my Posting:
The Democrats have dug themselves in a huge hole and it will take forever to get out of it. This happened in the 1990’s with Clinton, whom I voted for, and it is happening again. Overreach is dangerous and it will kill a party’s stand quicker than anything else.
You’d would have thought that the Democrats learned this last time. But they did not. So, here we go again.
I don’t what the church lady said is necessarily wrong, as much as we might not like to admit it. Race and religion do play a role in everything. I’m sure it’s difficult to be a different ethnicity and religion anywhere.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Put them in a round room and tell them to go piss in a corner?
Tell them that Jack is on the horse and they need to go help Jack off the horse?
Ask them if they have change for a twenty and if they do ask for two fives and two tens?
Bill Clinton “over-reached”? How so? I thought Clinton was a “centrist”, this week?
What you’re forgetting is this: you went absolutely berserk over Clinton, too. Most of us remember it. Hillary was the one who was going to kill old people and babies, but it’s the SAME SCAM.
Republicans tried to REMOVE Bill Clinton from office. That’s after he became a “centrist”. That was his reward for bi-partisanship? Wow. Sign me up.
I fully expect Republicans to try to remove Obama from office, if he’s re-elected. It’s what you do when you lose. This whole screeching insanity is what you do when you lose.
Inkadu, thank you for saving me the time of looking that up. As I recall, the anti-semitism directed at Cohen was addressed in this blog at the time, I think by John. Unfortunately, this wasn’t the only time attacks like this were directed at Cohen.
Another conservative with reading comprehension problems, and if it isn’t Paleo Pat, the guy responsible for this (I know you hate it when people bring it up) and tied with RELIAPUNDIT for world’s
worstlamest blogger. Here’s Pelosi and Hoyer:
“Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.”
No matter how hard I squint, I can’t find the part where they say these town hall disruptors’ beliefs are un-American. Nor do they say that opposing the Democrats’ health care reform is un-American. In fact, if you asked them, I venture they’d say that dissent is patriotic (something we said repeatedly back in 2003, when we could be heard above the din of Republicans shouting at us to “leave the country if you don’t like it!”)
Again, I don’t know how much clearer their language can be. Read it again.
“Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.”
After reading that twice, if you still insist that it actually says, “Anyone who opposes King Obama is an un-American seditious treasonous traitor,” then I suggest you invest in some better glasses.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
“The Democrats have dug themselves in a huge hole and it will take forever to get out of it. This happened in the 1990’s with Clinton, whom I voted for, and it is happening again”.
Whatever. So let me get this straight again. If Dems want to hold on to power they have to become R’s and do whatever the R’s say. Is that the gist? Yeah, that worked well in the 90’s.
I think when discussing holes you conveniently overlook the Grand Canyon like crater the Republicans party is in versus the bathtup sized hole the Dems are in. Apples and oranges my friend, apples and oranges.
And what “huge hole” have the Dems dug anyway? Sure the Dems (congress and Obama) numbers are dropping but the real telling statistic is that the numbers for R’s are dropping too, but faster. Everyones losing right now.
So there is still no real “lose” for the Dems outside of a less motivated base. As a matter of fact, the R’s continuing dip is the real story. While the Dem base and idependents may be cooling, the R’s are shedding in their core. The Rs arent losing their middle votes, they are lost, they are beginning to lose their core voters. Thats a crippling blow. Talk about holes to dig out of. The R’s are still digging themselves to China.
I’ll make a bet. When Obama passes something called healthcare reform (and no, I dont think it will be a progressives dream, but I think it will be an OK first step to something a few more years down the road) you will see the Dems numbers recover more rapidly than the Rs. I might even be willing to wager that Rs numbers will not improve but actually decline further.
@JenJen: In addition to Inkadu’s post, you might also want to read Bob Herbert’s August 8, 2008 column in the New York Times. He addresses both the racism and the anti-semitism that have were directed at Cohen during the last election.
You might be experienced (your words, not mine), but the only dog whistle you hear is the one in your imagination.
Sorry, I voted for Clinton; Both times. Something I now regret. Because of the Waco Siege.
I also voted for Gore and Kerry. Both which I regret.
I doubt Conservative will TRY and get Obama out of office. They just don’t have the stomach. Besides, he really has not broken any laws; that we know of.
No, I am not a “Birther”. I’d like to see the original, but I am smart enough to know, that he will never release it, unless ordered to by the SCOTUS. But we all know that will never happen.
I just see all this as massive overrreach, Clinton overreached on Healthcare, allowing his attorney General to do the Waco thing. had he been a real President, he would have told her and the FBI to BACK OFF and wait ’em out. Instead, he signed off on it. Like an idiot.
There’s ton’s more. But this will suffice.
I will give you that, they did say that. I too believe that some of is hysteria and the some of them are being tools, for the sake of being tools. But there are some, and yes, I have seen them, they are genuinely worried. Mainly of seeing their healthcare, as they have it presently… being changed and that being forced on them.
With us Conservatives, it is all about loathing control.
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
yeah, well, I think you are a fucking asshole. Like most liberals.
Sorry, I treat people like they treat me. You act civil, I’ll give you it back. You act like a dickhead, I’ll give it back to you.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Fix’t. Glad to be of assistance, please call again!
Well, that’s a theory. I’ll be the first to admit to everyone of reads this Blog. The Presidency of GWB fucked the Republican Party hardcore in the behind.
I mean, the man lied to many people; in more ways the one. I am not talking about Iraq either. Of course, that was, and still an issue with me.
I am referring to his lies about what he believed. He deceived the entire Conservative Christian base. He said in that exit interview, that he was did not take the Bible Liberally; as written. If he’d said that in 2000, he would have never made it out of the Primaries in the Republican Party. He knew how strong of influence that the Conservative Christian base is, he played ’em and they ate it up! Like idiots, of course.
Then it was his Conservative values, had he’d been hardcore. The Bailouts would have NEVER happened at all. That was a total “popping the bird” to his base. Which really had everyone on our side PISSED.
It is going to take years to repair what Bush/Cheney screwed up and ruined for us. The sick part is, they’re doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing. They should be moving to the center, a little… What they doing is running to the FAR right. That kills parties quicker than crap. If they try and run Palin in 2012, it will be over for that Party. Now Romney, or even huckabee, maybe. But if they run Palin, it will be all she wrote, dear john… (To quote a hillbilly phrase..)
Anyhow… sorry for getting long winded, but I wanted ya’ll to know where I am coming from. I’m up here near Detroit, and I’m not near to the right as Malkin and Co… I just don’t agree with the far left and that bunch of crap. But I don’t agree of the far right either… I’m a Moderate Conservative. Who leans more libertarian in SOME areas. (Not all…)
It means the article gave Cole a good fucking and his butt hurts. Simple explanation.