If Van Jones is a truther, it is time for him to exit stage left. I have a hard time determining what is fauxtrage and what is legit these days, the right is throwing so much nonsense, but it sure seems like there is evidence he was somehow involved in the movement. Apologies won’t cut it if that is the case.
*** Update ***
And, as usual, it is looking like it is all nonsense.
Comrade Jake
He released a statement that he doesn’t agree with the movement and that it doesn’t reflect anything he’s ever believed.
I suspect he probably signed the petition without reading it carefully. This would be the most likely explanation, which means nobody will ever believe it. Especially not the wingnut-right.
gnomedad
Totally agree. Truthers do not measure up next to the “You Must Be This Sane To Ride” post.
Demo Woman
The problem that I have is that he is responsible for signing a petition.. In a normal environment, he should be allowed to apologize and move on. He has accomplished more for the green movement and poverty than dozens of activists combined. Unfortunately, the whackos won’t be happy until they destroy him.
SGEW
Do we really want to hold political activists accountable for signing every petition that’s shoved under their noses at political rallies? You don’t sign those things because you’re a believer: you sign them to be polite. Nobody who knows anything about politics expects that a petition will actually, you know, do or mean anything. They’re like signing up for a band’s mailing list at a show, and then putting their emails into your spam filter.
Now, mind you, it was pretty stupid for Van Jones to sign a 9/11 truther petition – who knows, maybe he flirted with the idea back in 2004? – but he repudiates it now, and there’s no evidence that he ever did anything to support the crazies except for his name on some dumb ass petition.
As for what the “past statements” he’s apologizing about, it’s probably for his “communist” leanings and for calling Republicans “assholes” on video (skip to 1:10).
The Grand Panjandrum
It really doesn’t matter anymore that he’s a truther or not. (I don’t believe he is.) The fact is, he and many other credible people put their names to a document issued by an organization that is now a truther group. Period. I don’t know the history of the group, and they could very well have started out as an organziation for people to collectively ask many of the legitimate questions people have about what happened that day, and have never been answered., Was the group taken over by the truthers, or was it always thus? I just don’t know. This stinks and its a damn shame but life’s not fair sometimes. Jones should head home to spend more time with this family.
MikeJ
Is there a reputable source with details on this?
The Grand Panjandrum
BTW Jones is one of the founders of Color of Change, the group thats leading the assault to get advertisers to quit Glenn Beck’s show.
slag
Van Jones is far too smart to be an actual truther. I’m with @SGEW on this one. It wouldn’t surprise me if I signed one of those petitions at some point in my life. They actually disguise them pretty well.
And Van Jones is right about a lot of things. Especially about Republicans being @ssholes. They want him out because they know how influential he is. And they’re afraid of him.
Kryptik
Meanwhile, we have unabashed birthers in Congress, we have Glenn Beck getting millions of viewers a day to witness his spiral into madness while successfully convincing cads that everyone else is insane, we have Cheney stating that the rule of law is an obscene political power play and that torture is ok even if it goes to an extreme…and they’re repeatedly legitimized.
It’s taken a month (if that) for Van Jones to be called every other name under the sun and his name made political poison. Regardless of what is true or not…how the hell can the right manage to poison almost anyone left of Limbaugh within a matter of weeks while we can’t even get the morons in Congress to fully accept that Obama isn’t a swarthy illegal immigrant?
Ash
I’m not going to hold people responsible for signing stupid petitions. IF it goes any further than that (and I haven’t seen any evidence that it has) then sure. I’m pretty sure I once signed a Larouchie petition in college.
JK
This is something that should have been picked up by Obama’s 63 item questionnaire
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/13apply_questionnaire.pdf
described here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/politics/13apply.html and http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/13/transition.questionnaire/index.html
I haven’t read thru the 63 items, but I suspect signing a petition or something similar is addressed in the questionnaire.
@SGEW
Whatever good work Van Jones has done, it is pretty goddamn stupid to sign something without reading it first. I’m not willing to give Jones a pass on this issue.
Comrade Jake
IMO, the guy deserves mad props for calling Republicans assholes on film. Of course, even that comment has been taken out of context.
Normally the guy wouldn’t last a week. But these days, I’m not sure Beck taking you on doesn’t end up working in your favor.
Woodrowfan
It seemed like a pretty vague petition. I suspect it got more than a few signatures from folks who thought the Bush admin were hiding something. Not planting nano-themite or explosive unicorns or something in the WTC, but hiding how they blew the warnings that something was coming. That’s not even LIHOP….
Comrade Jake
@JK:
Holy over-reaction Batman.
slag
@The Grand Panjandrum:
No freakin way! I’m tired of concessions being made to these @ssholes, and if the Admin gives them Jones, they’re only going to get more and more bitchy. Talk about emboldening the enemy. And disheartening your allies. Surrender is not an option in this circumstance.
Singularity
I was about to agree with John and TGP, but if he’s one of the guys behind Color of Change, then no, he shouldn’t go. Forget that. It puts a whole new spin on this. Obviously, this is a payback attempt by Beck and his insane followers. Let them wail and moan. The more they complain, the more it tells me that we’re doing something right.
General Winfield Stuck
Bush hired a passel of those involved in the Iran Contra scandal, and in sensitive national security posts, see Eliot Abrams, and others.
A Green Power dude who signed a petition seems about right for the false equilivence meme we live with every day.
That said, just and only for pure political reasons, I would agree that someone else should get the appointment. Obama doesn;t need the aggravation right now, and the political oxygen for passing healthcare should be conserved for that purpose.
Xenos
His position sounds like a classic LIHOP (Bush et al. knew an attack would happen, did not know how bad it would be, but did not try to stop it because they wanted to put the country on a wartime footing) position. LIHOP is about 80% supported by well established facts. That is far less loopy than what you hear from about 50% of all GOP Senators on a regular basis.
Singularity
And holy crap, Woodrow! Explosive unicorns?!?!?! O mever even considered that. Where’s that petition?
The Grand Panjandrum
@Kryptik: Because what remains of the GOP is the festering boil that wants to believe that kind of shit to validate the inadequacy they feel after losing power. This isn’t about ideas, its about power. Even the seniors screaming about keeping gummint outta Medicare are afraid they are losing power. They can’t handle the fact that the world is changing. Anything that validates their grostesque world view is accepted as truth even though the facts may obviously disprove that point of view.
Singularity
And by “o mever”, of course, I mean “goddamn fat fingers”
DougJ
I’m not ready to trash people for every crazy petition they sign as long as they disavow it completely.
bob
Demo Woman: “Unfortunately, the whackos won’t be happy until they destroy him.”
John Cole: it sure seems like there is evidence he was somehow involved in the movement. Apologies won’t cut it if that is the case.
This “liberal” concern-blog is a GREAT gig … huh Cole? All the pooties and twice the pie with no calories!
cbear
You’re right, he should be immediately purged from the Obama administration, the Democratic Party, and polite society–and be forced to wander the streets of the capital in sackcloth and ashes begging forgiveness from every stray gooper he might encounter. Cause we just can’t abide the slightest dissent from the orthodoxy imposed on our society by our Rethug betters and expect to maintain a functioning society.
Besides, his scurillous behavior in this matter, signing a piece of paper, is so beyond the norm of what we rightly expect from our public servants that there HAVE to repercussions.
Additionally, this incident only highlights my belief that Obama is dedicated to the very destruction of our democratic ideals and rights, such as the 1st Amendment.
Also. Get a fucking clue. Also.
EvolutionaryDesign
This is a real question, so apologies in advance if I sound ignorant: Can someone explain to me why the truthers are so reviled? I’ve only tangentially heard about the movement; I know Bill Maher hates them with a passion; I think I also saw “Spare Change” or whatever the hell that was in college. But some of the ideas (if they are actually truther ideas), at least to me, are worth investigating, like why BushCo ignored the intelligence a la FDR’s ignoring of the coming of Pearl Harbor for war-motivated reasons. Or I could be a giant tool/idiot/fuckwad. Apologies if the latter is true.
The Grand Panjandrum
Here’s the link to CofC. Jones is listed as co-founder.
THAT is why he was targeted by Beck. Its pay back.
Kryptik
@The Grand Panjandrum:
This isn’t about the GOP and their base though. I know as much as you said. But still, even during the Bush years, they outright embraced their extremists and never paid a price, either in the media or public discourse (at least in a way that actually affected their ability to do anything).
However, when anyone remotely iffy comes up on our side, the media runs with the hysteria, and we’re scrambling to kick them into a closet and brick up the door. And it never makes up for the damage already done, nor does it ever make a dent in the momentum of the shitstorm the right and the media keep running with despite the controversial figure being booted. And that’s not even going into the validity of the charges against said figures. A person could be a saint and yet we still need to boot him because the GOP and the media have ‘serious questions’ about how said person is a dangerous America-hating extremist.
I’m just goddamn sick of this game.
Xenos
I say keep him on. Double down. And make the MSM explain why a LIHOP position should be considered crazy.
I can dream, can’t I?
SGEW
@JK:
From my personal point of view, I tend to agree. (Note well, however, that signatures on petitions have no binding force whatsoever, so it’s quite different from signing a consent form, or a license agreement, or whatnot). I, myself, stopped signing random petitions a long, long time ago, even if I’m friends with the petitioner (I have some friends with some pretty extreme political views (but no truthers, thankfully), but I won’t sign their petitions to ban cars in NYC or boycott Whole Foods or whatever).
However, whenever I actually read a petition and then refuse to sign it, people usually think I’m being a pedantic, condescending, and nitpicking stickler (i.e., a jerk). I’ve come to terms with this, but I can understand why someone like Van Jones would just nod along and go “Sure man, right on, please don’t call me a fascist sheeple in public, here’s my signature, I’ve gotta go now.”
Kryptik
@EvolutionaryDesign:
Most times, ‘truthers’ brings up the really out there people, the ones who believe the building was imploded or whatnot, because ‘fire can’t melt steel’, and whatnot.
I hardly consider myself a ‘truther’…but I do believe that Bush dropped the ball by not doing jack squat with the warnings, and then being shocked when something actually happened. I don’t believe it was purposeful. But I believe it was lethally incompetent. As was the reaction *coughIRAQWARcough*.
oldhat
@Xenos
Er, no, actually LIHOP is not “80% supported by well established facts.” Get that Truther nonsense off this blog and go back to the YouTube comments section.
Joel
This whole “school” protest thing is driving me nuts. I remember George H.W. Bush being broadcast in my school as a kid. Big fucking deal. Who cares?
The nuts have gone too far.
Mayur
The man is one of the greatest hopes we have for steering federal spending toward the creation of necessary infrastructure, sustaining-wage jobs, and a cleaner environment. And people are wringing their hands because he might have signed a random petition waved under his nose at some event?
Moreover, see #18 and 25. LIHOP is far, far more reasonable a position to hold than, say, birtherism. It may not fit the current orthodoxy, but it’s less batshit crazy by *far* than anything the GOP is allowing to ferment in their ranks.
But whatever. Continue your concern trolling.
MikeJ
If it were a Republican Limbaugh would be asking why everybody hadn’t signed it. Of course had President Gore been seated in January of 2001 he would have been impeached by September 15. Provided he hadn’t actually prevented the attack, of course.
slag
@Kryptik:
Seconded! We know that the only way to win is not to play. And yet we play. Because we’re losers.
JK
@EvolutionaryDesign:
The truthers should be reviled because they are full of shit and are batshit crazy. The documentary is called Loose Change and it is full of shit. They are delusional and it’s impossible to use reason with them.
These are 3 good starting points for questions you have about the 9/11attacks.
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com
The Grand Panjandrum
@EvolutionaryDesign: The problem is they haven’t sorted themselves out into competing faction yet. I have questions about what Bush/Cheney knew, and when they knew. Go to 911truth.org and look at the range of the truther spectrum. It goes from the very rational questions never asked, or at least publicly asked by the 911 Commission, to those who believe the administration blew up the buildings to make it worse. (Or something like that.)
Kryptik
@MikeJ:
You honestly think they’d be merciful enough to wait 4 days?
MikeJ
I think that was probably hyperbole. Remove the OP from LIHOP and it’s pretty undeniable ( “bin Laden determined…”). Of course without the “on purpose” part of LIHOP we’re discussing negligence, not conspiracy.
Egypt Steve
Nobody’s irreplaceable. Plenty of good environmentalists and green-tech people out there. Over the side. Splash. Sail on.
Comrade Jake
@Mayur:
Let’s be perfectly clear: this is precisely why he doesn’t stand a fucking chance in hell.
gnomedad
@gnomedad:
Okay, backtracking here … if all he did was sign a petition which he now repudiates, no problem. I take Trutherism to be “secret controlled demolition” stuff. LIHOP, sadly, has at least some plausibility.
EvolutionaryDesign
@Kryptik: That makes sense. Now that I think about it, I think I have heard the steel nonsense, and I always had a problem with their explaination of the Pentagon accident, but I’ve also heard things like Cheney ordered F-16s or something from NORAD to stand down, and other stuff. I’m of the mind anymore that Cheney was running things and Bush was just the master of ceremonies.
Malron
LOL @ these comments. I’ve signed more than a few petitions in my day without fully reading through them. I don’t think we know everything that happened in the days before 9/11, so I guess that makes me a bald truther too.
JR
I agree this will probably cost him his job. Nature of the beast.
But it’s worth considering that, at the time (2004) it wasn’t really that crazy to think NORAD had lied to the Commission about what they knew and when (to the point of claiming that they had been tracking United 93 twelve minutes before it was hijacked), or that the CIA withheld information from the Commission that it claimed to have already provided (which was, incidentally, how we discovered they had destroyed interrogation videotapes).
It seems like the petition he signed went beyond calling for criminal probes of the CIA and NORAD (which some commissioners–including Tom Kean–had contemplated at the time), but actually for investigating specific questions under the rubric of a larger conspiracy theory. And by October 2004 9/11truth.org was already well into the throes of “93 was shot down/Building 7 was controlled demolition/WTC was imploded/government leaders were warned not to fly/insider traders made millions” CT crap. I will say in defense of the petition signers that it wasn’t unreasonable to want a deeper investigation than the 9/11 Commission (particularly since it was already known that Commissioners thought they were being lied to by the Pentagon and CIA), and it may just be that the only groups willing to organize a push for one were the crazies. I was an anti-war organizer from 2002-2007 (basically my undergrad collegiate career), and though I disagreed with them on just about everything other than the Iraq War (and still do) I worked occasionally in conjunction with International ANSWER just because they were the only ones doing the legwork. It was hard to find allies, and impossible to only associate with groups that believed exactly as I did.
Sometimes turning a blind eye to a bit of crazy was a prerequisite for trying to stop Bush’s agenda (I think many on the Right today would agree with that in principle, considering the crazy of the last year and a half). I don’t immediately take this petition to be a sign of Jones’s character, or even his political acumen, but the fact is it’s probably poison now, and he’s going to be sacrificed on the altar of political necessity as a result.
If he is actually a 9/11 CTer, though, he deserves the bum’s rush he’s inexorably marching towards.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Kryptik: They didn’t pay a price? I think the election results of 2006 and 2008 would be enough evidence to support the idea that they did pay a price.
Andrew
I just don’t sign petitions on principal, but to give you an idea about how shit like this can happen look at referendum R-71 in Washington. The people collecting signatures (to repeal our Domestic Partnerships Law) were required to print all 37 pages and attach them to the clipboard where they were collecting signatures. No one is going to read 37 pages before signing. So, they lied to people about what exactly they were signing.
media browski
John,
You’re getting your info from LGF, and then wondering if there’s any truth to it. FAIL.
SGEW
That is saying very, very little.
Kryptik
@Comrade Jake:
No, the reason he doesn’t stand a chance is because so many people aren’t discussing whether or not we should throw him overboard, but whether we should do it overhand or hammock-style.
Mnemosyne
@Singularity:
Ding ding ding ding ding. This is a non-controversy blown up into a “controversy” because conservatives are pissed off that Color of Change is successfully getting advertisers to drop out of Glenn Beck’s show.
Period.
DonkeyKong
Looks like Mr. Cole has strapped on the Republican bitch slapping machine. Old habits die hard.
He apologized John, can you link to any recent statements of support he has made for the “truth” movement. If not move on!
Tom
I don’t think this guy should get the boot. He’s come out and said he doesn’t believe the truther stuff and never has… frankly, I think he probably did and would rather have had him say “you know what, I was behind that idea for a while but now believe that 9/11 was not an inside job and was in fact carried out by al Qaeda.”
As long as this guy is not actively pushing this idea today, I don’t see the value or reason in booting him, especially since it seems like he’s a good guy for the job.
I mean, are we call for members of Congress to resign for pushing birther legislation?
Bottom line, this is something that this guy maybe believed earlier in the decade and is now distancing himself from it. It’s not like he’s sec of state or anything. He’s a green jobs guru. I don’t have a problem with him staying.
Allan
I give Van a pass on this. Back in ’04 people believed a lot of things that look really crazy in retrospect. Like, Saddam had links with Al Quaida and WMD. And people who fervently believed those lies are still allowed to hold Very Important Positions in the Village.
Brick Oven Bill
I respect the Truthers, as it is a very complex theory they have developed. The Jews convinced the Muslims to fly the planes, and put word out to the Jews in the towers to stay home that day. Working with agents in the government, charges were placed to take down the buildings in Scenario ‘B’ where the buildings did not fall down from the planes.
The government that cannot get anything right then pulls this off flawlessly with complete operational security, that remains in place to this day. Then we go to perpetual war against the Arabs, protecting Israel’s interests. This is one hell of a theory. I can see where it would be attractive to creative minds like Van Jones. And Rosie O’Donnell.
Somebody also needs to tell Van Jones that windmills cannot power electrical grids. This is a simple concept, and understandably below the intellectual mettle of our Green Jobs Czar.
GambitRF
Van Jones is a trending topic on twitter right now. Wingnuts are going full speed ahead on this. Bitching about the MSM supposedly burying the story and ultra-tenuous connections to Jeremiah Wright abound. I really, really hate people sometimes.
General Winfield Stuck
@Xenos:
I’m about getting to this stance. But not until Healthcare gets resolved in whatever way.
The dem party is being pushed into an ideological all out war by the right, at least politically, for now. They are going for broke, because they know they are screwed long term electorally and demographically.
When one side of a two side political party system, like the one we have does this, soon will come a day of reckoning and the left will need to shit or get off the pot. They will need to quit running from the liberal word to begin with, and wear it with pride and not substitute “progressive” or any other copout term.
They will need to call themselves what they are without fear of consequences and what they believe in without hesitation and call lies lies in clear unambiguous terms.
There is no escaping this and the wingers are betting all in on dems prevaricating and folding into intra party feuds over how to respond. American doesn’t much like the crazy wingnuttery, but they like even less a party that won’t stand for what it believes, and is willing to stand and fight.
speaking for me only.
slag
@Egypt Steve:
If you really believe this, you don’t know jack about Jones or the green jobs movement or even about power structures. If Jones weren’t a high-value asset, wingers would move on to someone who was. They’ve spent weeks assassinating this man’s character for a reason.
Comrade Jake
Once, just once, I would like to see a WH whose response to this kind of thing would be to extend a middle finger to the Glenn Becks and conventional-wisdom commentariats of the world. Can I get a “fuck off and die!” Rahm? Please?
JK
@Comrade Jake: @SGEW:
This strikes me as Tom Daschle lite. Granted, he didn’t break the law or forget to pay his taxes. He did something stupid and apparently did not mention the petition while he was being vetted. Like Daschle, Jones has placed Obama in a bad spot.
I take a backseat to no one in my hatred of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly, Malkin, et al. However, if Jones is unable to prevent this story from creating endless follow-up questions and distractions, he has no choice but to step aside.
catclub
What do Lebanese pancake emporia have to do with Van Jones?
Would it be irresponsible not to ask?
AnotherBruce
Horseshit, this guy doesn’t go anywhere until Inhofe resigns for being a birther.
Comrade Jake
@General Winfield Stuck:
I just don’t see much evidence the Democratic party is going for broke. I’d like to believe you, but mostly what it seems they’re doing is failing to stand on principle.
In other words, they lack a spine. Thinking that folding on someone like Jones is going to suddenly allow them to grow one is some strong cognitive dissonance.
Kryptik
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Which was more a consequence of the results of policies rather than the rejection of the insane individuals or the policies themselves, as evidenced by folks like Cheney, Gingrich, and the rest of the cast of shitwits on the right continually being treated as legitimate, reasonable political figures.
Wheras we get the anecdotal words of the White House wanting to reign in progressives after the Blue Dogs keep giving the damn keys to the car away.
Xenos
@oldhat: The ‘Let it Happen’ is indisputable. The ‘On Purpose’ is pretty dubious, and really can’t be proven short of a confession, and I doubt we would ever get it even if it were true. So call it 2/5ths proven or 2/5ths and be done with it. It is still unproven.
But look at the text of the petition. There is the premises, the ‘whereas’ parts, and the conclusion, the call to action. The claim that Administration officials LIHOP is a premise. One could very well be in favor of the call to action (criminal investigation, independent civilian panel) and sign that petition, even if you thought the listed premise was hooey.
A signature on a petition should be read narrowly, as supporting the proposed action. The rest is verbiage, and you can’t in all fairness hold someone to it.
EvolutionaryDesign
@Brick Oven Bill: Glad to see Rosie O’Donnell is still a cultural touchstone for you.
Also – how do you figure about windmills not being power generators exactly?
General Winfield Stuck
@Comrade Jake:
I think you misread my comment. I was saying the wingers are going for broke, and the dems will have to stand up and meet them to win. I was not saying that dems are doing this or predicting they would. Just that they need to to win. Based on past behaviours, I am not all that confident either.
ricky
@EvolutionaryDesign:
”Or I could be a giant tool/idiot/fuckwad. Apologies if the latter is true.”
No need to apologize. If Beck keeps bleeding from the advertiseries, FOX will need a replacement soon and you’ll sound qualified.
MikeJ
So no Democrat anywhere should ever be allowed in public service? That’s the only way to stop the attacks.
John Cole
How the hell am I concern trolling? All I said was if he is a truther, it is time for him to go. I’m willing to hear his arguments and weight the evidence, but it does look like he has run in those circles. I’m willing to give him a hearing because I know they gin up so much bullshit this might just be nonsense, too.
But if he is a truther, I have no patience for him.
Demo Woman
The truthers believe that the planes did not cause the buildings to collapse. I don’t believe that and I doubt that Van Jones believes that.
Do I believe that Bush was delivered a memo that said we were going to be attacked? Yes. Do I believe that he sent the agents on their way and said well you covered your ass? Yes.
Do I believe that they were warned that planes could be used as weapons. Yes. Those are facts that are not in dispute.
What I want to know is why he did not have the airlines lock their doors? Why did he not warn the nation and the pilots?
Most pilots are retired military and they know maneuvers that could have caused injuries to passengers but could have saved lives. Do I have unanswered question? Hell yes!
Does that make me a truther? IMO, Bush was incompetent.
General Winfield Stuck
@Comrade Jake:
Plus, as usual, I could have worded it better.
Comrade Jake
@JK:
Sure, I can see that. And you might be right – this might end up costing him his job. You just seemed to be implying above that he *should* leave over this, when I don’t agree with that at all.
We ought to be able to get to the point where a pol can say “I made a stupid mistake and signed a petition I hadn’t read carefully” and the fucking controversy ends. I am so, goddamn fucking tired of this kind of bullshit.
The Grand Panjandrum
@John Cole: Our troll is back at #55. Yeesh. Can he just be gone.
ericblair
However, when anyone remotely iffy comes up on our side, the media runs with the hysteria, and we’re scrambling to kick them into a closet and brick up the door. And it never makes up for the damage already done, nor does it ever make a dent in the momentum of the shitstorm the right and the media keep running with despite the controversial figure being booted. And that’s not even going into the validity of the charges against said figures.
I think it also misinterprets how the right, for lack of a better word, thinks about things. For your basic authoritarian, factual content is really irrelevant. “Facts” are whatever your alpha male told you to say. Having the opposition agree with you is not a sign of conciliation and cooperation, it’s a sign of weakness, and encouragement to do attack again since it seems to be working. Telling them to get stuffed sends them into the submissive self-pitying whining mode.
Correcting yourself when you’re wrong is good. Backing down in the hope that the wingnuts will shut up and go away is stupid.
Mayur
@SGEW: Little or not, it says enough. Plenty of politicians (especially, nay overwhelmingly, on the Right) have been at least tenuously associated with unbelievably whacked-out causes via this sort of random-incident thread. I’d say that Van Jones signing some petition is significantly less big a deal than Bush speaking at Bob Jones U., as far as politically-unsavory connections go.
JR
@ John Cole:
“Run in those circles” is a pretty hard standard. As I said above (and you wouldn’t know this, having been on the other side at the time) everyone who vocally opposed the war at one point or another ended up “running in those circles” simply because a) there was overlap between the anti-war and truther movements, and b) the really overboard activists were also the ones who got the permits and organized the buses for most of the protests. Everyone activist who opposed Bush and didn’t have a late-term political conversion is in some sense going to be tied to these nuts.
bob
Egypt Steve: Nobody’s irreplaceable. Plenty of good environmentalists and green-tech people out there. Over the side. Splash. Sail on.
Panjandrum: This stinks and its a damn shame but life’s not fair sometimes. Jones should head home to spend more time with this family.
JK: Whatever good work Van Jones has done, it is pretty goddamn stupid to sign something without reading it first. I’m not willing to give Jones a pass on this issue.
JR: I agree this will probably cost him his job. Nature of the beast.
Cole: it sure seems like there is evidence he was somehow involved in the movement. Apologies won’t cut it if that is the case.
I have to say it’s just GREAT to be on the same side as you brave, principled, insightful real-politikos. With support like this, how could we lose?
EvolutionaryDesign
@ricky: I don’t know, man. I don’t think I can rise to the level of crazy that Beck espouses without some training first.
slag
@JK:
Minor detail.
Who’s next, McCarthy? I hear Obama won’t produce his birth certificate. That’s put Obama in a bad spot. Obama has no choice but to step aside.
Interesting how the top two people in charge of Obama’s top two initiatives have received the brunt of the noise machine. I wonder why that is. Don’t worry, though, I’m sure after they get Jones’ head, the nontroversies will die down, and Obama will get plenty of Republican votes on healthcare AND cap and trade. And we will all live happily ever after.
Da Bomb
@Singularity: He is behind the color of change, hence why all of this crap about his past is coming out.
Van Jones is someone you don’t mess with.
Ash
Only crazy people are truthers. Crazy people believe there were bombs planted in the WTC, and hundreds of people in planes disappeared.
Van Jones is not crazy.
El Cid
It’s not so much that Bush Jr. and Cheney were, at best, incompetent — they were quite, um, ‘actively’ negligent: they acted with utter dismissiveness and hostility to their responsibilities to pursue warnings of terrorist threats.
That’s not “incompetence”. No more than anyone who receives a warning of imminent and massive fire risks at a hospital, ignores them, tells those warning them to go away, and then pleads that, well, things got away from them when the place burned down and killed dozens of people.
That’s negligence.
*
“Truthers do not measure up next to the “You Must Be This Sane To Ride” post.”
I agree that there are a lot of crazy people riding the truther train, but you’d have to be equally crazy to believe the official story of 9/11.
Demo Woman
@John Cole: Some of us are agreeing with you but just venting. As I said earlier, he is responsible for his signature.
The truthers is a group of conspiracy theorists. D-Day makes an interesting comparison about the Birthers being the same type of conspiracy theorists except in this case 12 Republican reps are signing onto that theory.
Xenos
Aha! Jones is palling around with Truthers!
ricky
Yes, lets spend the remainder of Obama’s term watching the right find questionable comments made by Obama appointees and have them driven from the administrtation one by one. I bet some of them have questionable kitchen counter tops, too.
Kryptik
@John Cole:
I just think many, myself included, are just sick of the GOP managing to maintain Limbaugh, Cheney, and Beck as the faces of the party with little consequence, while the Democratic response to shit being flung at someone just off-center on our side is ‘Who do we replace him with after we kick the son of a bitch to the curb?’.
I’m sick of the defeatism. I haven’t seen playing to win. I haven’t even seen playing to not lose. It’s ‘playing to lose by the least we can’, and that’s the worst fucking mindset to play with here.
This isn’t about you, but the general fucking jelly-like constitution of most of our leaders. When we ask for spine and direction, I don’t mean a spine-shaped gummy and a compass that sends me around in circles.
Brick Oven Bill
95% of European windmill power generation capacity needs to be backed up by conventional power plants, operating inefficiently, burning lots of fossil fuel. Somebody needs to tell our Green Jobs Czar this. This is because the winds stops. Wind power is a falsehood. It took T. Boone a couple years and billions of dollar to figure this one out. I could have explained this to him this for only one million dollars.
I volunteer to be the new Green Jobs Czar when Obama throws Van Jones under the bus. The nation should electrify the railroads and power them with nuclear plants.
Ash
Seriously John, do you seriously think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that Van Jones actually subscribes to any of the Loose Change bullshit?
He doesn’t. There shouldn’t be any talk of kicking him to the curb.
ricky
@EvolutionaryDesign:
May I suggest Art History to start with. “Communist Mexican Mural Art and the Oil Trust” is a seminar that will start you slowly sliding down the slippery slope.
Kryptik
@ricky:
Did you know one of them has a textbook from 8th grade that…gasp…goes into the history of the old USSR? That proves he’s a commie, we have to boot him or we’ll never be able to fight off the communist accusations!
Quaker in a Basement
The irony is rich and deep.
MikeJ
I demand the immediate resignation and repudiation of:
Rep Posey, Bill [FL-15]
Rep Blackburn, Marsha [TN-7]
Rep Burton, Dan [IN-5]
Rep Campbell, John [CA-48]
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31]
Rep Culberson, John Abney [TX-7]
Rep Gohmert, Louie [TX-1]
Rep Goodlatte, Bob [VA-6]
Rep Marchant, Kenny [TX-24]
Rep Neugebauer, Randy [TX-19]
Rep Poe, Ted [TX-2]
After I see that, we can talk about Jones.
Ed Drone
The petition was for investigation of claims made by people who are now considered nuts. At the time, their nuttiness wasn’t as obvious as now, the full-blown paranoia of their theories wasn’t even fully formed. And the petition was for “investigation.”
Now, it seems to me that agreeing that investigation of the traumatic event of 9/11 should be done isn’t that big a deal. Heck, if you knew that someone was a genuine twit, but agreeing to check his story would get him off your back, you’d be likely to sign something, too. “Investigate? Sure! It’ll show that you’re off your rocker, but, sure, we could investigate.”
Now, if the petition said, “I agree with the claims in this nutcase’s list of grievances,” then you didn’t read the petition carefully. I get petitions to sign sometimes, coming out of the subway or at my front door, and these petitions are sometimes lengthy and worded convolutely (if such a word doesn’t exist, it does now). But if I listen to the guy holding the clipboard, and especially if the organization sounds like someone whose ideas i’d support, (Clean Government Committee, Greenpeace, Clean Water Action, or Citizens Against Fraudulent Petitions) I’m likely to sign it. If one of those organizations turns out to be a front for Nazis, or Stormfront, and the petition isn’t worded so that their aims are obvious, I could get in trouble for signing.
In other words, “So what? Did I do more than sign my name to get someone off my porch? No? Then STFU.”
Ed
Demo Woman
@The Grand Panjandrum: It was his comment #107 on the “By whatever means necessary..” that got to me. The one thing that I like about blogs is that the color of your skin is irrelevant. I’m surprised that Red State doesn’t have one post a picture.
catclub
I would really like Obama to ridicule the questioner.
“You want me to fire someone who said _I_ am NOT an asshole? and would prefer that I hire someone who says I am one?… yeah, right.”
Comrade Jake
Please do not feed the Brick Oven troll. Thanks in advance.
EvolutionaryDesign
@Comrade Jake: Sorry about that. I’m new to posting here and could’t help myself.
SGEW
@Quaker in a Basement: ?
Were you speaking to me?
JK
@slag:
You’re making an extremely silly and inappropriate comparison. You’re comparing apples to oranges –
The birther story has been resolved, the Van Jones story has just come to the public’s attention.
With regard to the so-called birther issue, there’s no there there. Obama is an American citizen no ifs ands or buts about it. Therefore, there’s no further line of inquiry to pursue.
The Van Jones story is a developing story.
Neither you nor any other Balloon Juice reader or commenter knows if there are any other shoes to drop regarding Van Jones.
If Van Jones has done nothing beyond the mistake of signing this petition, the story has no traction and the MSM won’t pursue it any further.
Only Van Jones knows if there are any shoes to drop. If he has other embarrassing skeletons in the closet, he knows the MSM will dig them out.
The Grand Panjandrum
@bob:
Pray tell, how might we be stronger and braver? Should I swivel about in my chair and shake my fist at the computer screen and yell brave oaths of allegiance to The Cause? Or maybe I could dash off a strongly worded letter to Obama and let him know that I am with him in his struggle against the demons of the conservative malaise now permeating our great land? Pray tell, sir. One doth need guidance in these matters of political warfare.
liberal
I think the more interesting hypothesis (because some evidence for it exists) is that Israeli intelligence LIHOP.
shelley matheis
On a health care/insurance thought: Was just watching an old Ginger Rogers movie, ‘Tender Comrade,’ about a group of wives bonding during WWII. In one scene she’s in the hospital after having a baby. The doctor says, ‘We’re really crowded here. We’re asking all new mothers to go home after six days. Is that all right?’
Six days? Six days?? Today they try to kick you out after six hours!
Comrade Jake
If BushCo let 9/11 happen, they did so because they were woefully incompetent. Anything else is pure wingnuttery.
EvolutionaryDesign
@The Grand Panjandrum: You’re clearly not yelling at the TV loud enough.
rock
If this post is saying “if this guy’s a nutcase, kick him to the curb” I agree.
I disagree that signing a stupid petition somehow “damages” him and he needs to withdraw. His disavowal (which I think is more than an apology), is good enough for me.
If he will be an effective progressive advocate, then keep him on staff. In a time where birthers hold congressional offices, and outing CIA agents doesn’t cost people jobs this truly seems like weak stuff.
Flugelhorn
Proud of you John. Very proud. It was extremely audacious and ignorant of Obama to appoint a self-described communist/marxist to such a high profile position. Of course his only option was to appoint him as a ‘Czar’. Van Jones would have NEVER made it past the confirmation process.
In fact, quite a few of these so called “Czars” would have never made it past confirmation.
Gee. I wonder if thats why there are so many Czars in his government. Obama’s confirmed cabinet seems to be the Administration’s ‘beard’ while the Czars frolic in the background and pull the strings.
Why does this not bother more people?
slag
@John Cole: If you didn’t want to be accused of concern trolling, you might look into Jones some more before even intimating that he should step down. Just sayin.
ricky
Hold the g*dd%#n phone.
Ralph Nader signed that same call for an investigation.
Jones has to go.
Signed:
Still pissed off about the Corvair
burnspbesq
@Egypt Steve:
“Nobody’s irreplaceable. Plenty of good environmentalists and green-tech people out there. Over the side. Splash. Sail on.”
No. In fact, hell no. If the other side can railroad a good person out of a job where he is making a difference over something this stupid and trivial, then we are unworthy to govern.
It’s time to draw a line in the sand and tell the lunatics, “Is that all you got? If that’s all you got, then fuck off.”
Legalize
And Chris Matthews will say, “both sides have their own nutters; look, Obama has one inside his administration! Now, here’s an unshaven Gordon Liddy in his bathrobe sucking down a bottle of Ripple to explain yadda yadda yadda.”
gypsy howell
I’m in the camp of wishing the White House would tell the outrage machine stirring up this controversy to fuck off and die.
It’s time to stop ceding to every fake controversy ginned up by the Republicans.
I’d like to see the Republicans spending every bit of their energy trying to prove the LIHOPers wrong. That would be a better use of their time.
Demo Woman
I do agree that that Van Jones won’t be the last of Obama’s appointments to be vetted inappropriately by Glenn Beck.
Hagel is rumored to be an appointment soon by Obama, I wonder how soon it will be before Beck paints Hagel as communist sympathizer.
JK
How many people are playing the Van Jones drinking game tonight?
ricky
@Flugelhorn:
Gee. I wonder if thats why there are so many Czars in his government. Obama’s confirmed cabinet seems to be the Administration’s ‘beard’ while the Czars frolic in the background and pull the strings.
Why does this not bother more people?
Because we know the real strings are being pulled by Raputin, who is keeping those two dreadful children alive and adviusing Michelle to wear shorts.
Oh, and also because we know real commies killed real czars, who in this day and age might be insurance executives with options to exercise.
MikeJ
Sadly they never have to address the question, “was Bush incompetent or negligent?” They merely have to say “of course fire melts steel” (and it really does!) and then say they’ve handled all the objections.
slag
@JK: I’m sorry. I thought it was you who was making an extremely silly and inappropriate comparison. That signing a petition is akin to BREAKING THE LAW. I was just helping you out a bit there. But apparently, allegory doesn’t always work as a teaching tool. For some people.
gnomedad
@Demo Woman:
You mean ‘cuz he worked with Marx?
The Grand Panjandrum
@EvolutionaryDesign: Can you hear me now?
gnomedad
@gnomedad:
Duh, I was thinking of Engels. Sorry.
Demo Woman
OT but this is too funny! Bachman thinks the dems are afraid of her becoming President.
Huffington linked to the post at Media Matters.
She’s right in the sense that I’m afraid of her becoming President.
Chad N Freude
@Brick Oven Bill: Requesting temporary suspension of the Troll Feeding Rule.
Somebody should inform the Spanish of this. Spain is covered with wind farms, and they have an electrical grid. I don’t know this for a fact, but I believe that the two are connected somehow.
Of course, in Spain they speak the language of illegal immigrants, which makes everything they do suspect.
Resume Troll Feeding Rule.
jibeaux
@ricky:
That’s pretty funny. I fully support ideological purges throughout all levels of government for anyone who voted for Ralph Nader.
Chad N Freude
@Demo Woman: I find the thought absolutely terrifying.
EvolutionaryDesign
@The Grand Panjandrum: Ahhh. That’s more like it. Democracy!
Chad N Freude
Somewhat but not completely OT:
Coming soon to a bookstore near you.
jibeaux
@Demo Woman:
Message to Michelle Bachmann: Against all odds, you are actually a member of the House of Representatives, who initiate impeachment proceedings. Introduce legislation to impeach the president, or STFU.
liberal
@Flugelhorn:
LOL! Because there are two and only two ways someone could influence a president or his policies: as either a cabinet appointment, or as a czar.
Comrade Darkness
@Demo Woman: Well, I’d finally get to move to NZ. On the upside.
gnomedad
@Chad N Freude:
Regrettably, the drones will make it a best-seller.
ericblair
@Flugelhorn: Gee. I wonder if thats why there are so many Czars in his government. Obama’s confirmed cabinet seems to be the Administration’s ‘beard’ while the Czars frolic in the background and pull the strings.
Eh? Traditionally, czars have no budgetary authority and are put there to show that the administration is Doing Something while hoping whatever problem it addresses goes away by itself, or people forget about it, or just to kick the can down the road a bit. Everyone with actual power to buy his own office supplies can safely ignore him. Remember when we had a War Czar? Good times.
Forgive me for being a tad cynical about czars.
And it’s spelled царь, people! If ya can’t spell it, ya shouldn’t do it!
liberal
@Chad N Freude:
I cannot read BOB’s addled mind, but maybe he means that the wind doesn’t blow all the time, and as such you need other sources or some form of storage to make up for it.
Actually, every time I read some vague paean to wind/solar/etc electrical power, I keep thinking that the storage issue is really the biggest technological or engineering hurdle.
KevinNYC
Here’s what the questions the petition asked. If you just read the questions, are these way out of line? It seems to be focused on what the 9/11 commision didn’t address How many of these would you still like answers too. Hell Ed Asner signed this thing, does the rightwing want us to boycott UP? Remember this is before Loose Change, so this group may not have been off in the ozone then.
Brachiator
@SGEW:
Yep.
I would think that an experienced activist would be extra careful about what might be associated with his or her name and organization. Otherwise you get exactly what you’ve got, unnecessary controversy.
The Grand Panjandrum
@EvolutionaryDesign: I feel much better AND I didn’t have to shake my fist! Sometimes just shouting a little louder gets real results.
EvolutionaryDesign
@Chad N Freude: Wow. So much FAIL in the description alone.
“Glen Beck … has stumbled upon the secret formula to winning arguments against people with big mouths but small minds: knowing the facts.”
And why is he dressed like Stalin or an SS Officer on the cover? Also.
mantis
This may have been said before, but there’s a big difference between suspecting that the government knew something was coming and failed to appropriately act, and believing the government was in on it, as the truthers do. Asking for a proper investigation instead of the sham that was the 911 commission, in light of the facts known, was not a crazy thing in 2004.
Considering that PNAC specifically outlined how a “new Pearl Harbor” would be needed to quickly achieve their goals in Rebuilding America’s Defenses, and we know that the FAA received 52 intelligence reports on al-qaeda in 2001, including five that warned about hijackings and two on suicide operations. There were a lot more warnings as well.
I’m no truther, and I neither believe the government knew exactly what would happen nor had any complicity in the attacks, but it’s clear that the government dropped the ball, and considering everything we know and knew about the Bush administration and the PNAC folks in 2004, I don’t consider it that crazy in 2004 to suspect they might have let it happen and to demand further investigation.
Chad N Freude
@gnomedad: No doubt. But I am overcome with mirth at the title: “Arguing With Idiots”. He should certainly know all about that. It should be subtitled “How To Talk To Me”.
Nick
What beliefs and questions make one a truther?
I question whether we shot down the flight over Pennsylvania–there are a number of ostensibly credible veterans who claim the plane was shot down.
Paul Thompson has made a good case for the Pakistani ISI funding Atta.
I haven’t looked at this issue in awhile, but it seems the 9/11 Commission did a shoddy job. I’d like to see someone with the subpoena power really investigate what happened and write an unredacted report on it.
Chad N Freude
@liberal: By all means, give him the benefit of the doubt. I was just taking
catclub
[email protected]
Nope, Townhall will give it away and claim it is a best seller.
Just visit their website and they will give you Malkin’s book.
Maybe I should accept if they will pay the postage.
Chad N Freude
Damn blockquote tags.
EvolutionaryDesign
@The Grand Panjandrum: I think the tea baggers have proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
techno
Van Jones is way in over his head.
I have been involved with efforts at various levels to change the energy consumption of existing dwellings since the days of Jimmy Carter. Mostly, I have discovered that making buildings more energy-efficient is very difficult and VERY expensive.
So when Jones claimed that most of his ideas towards energy-efficiency would be implimented by folks armed with caulk guns, I knew immediately he didn’t have a clue.
So am I surprised that he is a “truther” or that he once dabble in “communism”? Not one bit. I am only surprised he hasn’t become a Jesus freak–that’s also one of the stages the intellectually shallow pass through.
Va Highlander
@General Winfield Stuck:
No, not exactly.
You seemed to be speaking for me as well and thanks.
Chad N Freude
@EvolutionaryDesign: The costume does raise some interesting questions. Perhaops that is the uniform of the New Populist Anti-Fascist Conservative Republicans.
I wonder what his birthday parties are like.
Chad N Freude
“Arguing With Idiots: How My Followers Should Argue With Their Intellectual Superiors”
Brick Oven Bill
Build all the windmills you want, hook them up to the grid. The wind still stops. This explains the 95% conventional backup requirement. When I am the Green Jobs Czar, small wind farms will be allowed in regions powered by hydroelectric for research purposes. When the wind stops in these areas, you can open the water valve wider. In flatter lands, you have to start up a power plant, which takes a day.
This is why much of Spain’s wind power, in the periods when it is actually being generated, is sold at a steep discount to Scandinavian countries. But in flat lands, wind power is counterproductive.
Here is the old link to E.ON Netz, the German power integrator, who published the data that details the backup requirements. Interestingly, it has been taken down. It was their 2005 Wind Power Report to shareholders. Look it up in 3rd party discussions elsewhere:
http://www.eon-netz.com/Ressources/downloads/EON_Netz_Windreport2005_eng.pdf
Perhaps the Czars got to the Germans. Perhaps Van Jones and General Electric put the transparent hurt on E.ON Netz.
ricky
If you follow the links to this post backward, from Little Green Footballs to ABC’s Tapping Jake, to the 9-11 Truth Press Release, you will see they have posted “a statement”
that is worded in such a way as to make it very unclear what exactly was on the document Jones and others allegedly put their names to. The claim that Bush officials deliberately let 9-ll happen appears to be that of the group with the website but may not have been on the statement to which the names were attached.
As Kevin NYC notes, the signatories said there were unanswered questions, which Kevin listed. And the signatories said they wanted investigatory steps taken.
The allegation that these questions suggest anything about Bush officials seems to be an editorial comment added by the group which released the statement, not part of the statement itself. However the way the document is laid out makes it possible to make the claim that the signatories were making such a charge whether they wanted to do so or not.
EvolutionaryDesign
@Chad N Freude:
JackieBinAZ
@DonkeyKong: But he didn’t also renounce, retract, repudiate and publicly throw the entire movement under the bus. He’s got a lot of atonement to do yet.
EvolutionaryDesign
@EvolutionaryDesign: I apparently don’t know how to use block quote tags. The leather is for the BDay parties.
Church Lady
Go read Jake Tapper’s blog. I will be shocked if Jones won’t be “spending more time with his family” by Monday morning. Remember, the internets live for-eveah.
JK
@slag:
Signing a petition is not akin to breaking the law.
Read this carefully slag –
1. Van Jones and Tom Daschle both did something stupid. 2. Jones and Daschle embarrassed Obama by their actions.
3. The Jones scandal is an unwelcome distraction from issues that matter just like the Daschle scandal.
4. The Jones scandal is creating a feeding frenzy just like the Daschle scandal.
Do you understand my point? It doesn’t matter that Jones didn’t commit an illegal act. Jones is taking the White House off message. The MSM is pulling out all the stops to see if Jones has done anything else embarrassing or controversial.
Do you want to go thru another drip drip scandal with new embarrassing details being disclosed with each successive news cycle?
Stop being snarky and sarcastic.
rh
The only 9/11 conspiracy theory that I find at all plausible is that some high-ranking members of the Pakistani ISI may have played some role in funding the plot. But even the evidence to that, as far as I can tell, all springs from one solitary article in the Times of India that was then quoted/referenced in a number of other newspapers. And unfortunately, due to the importance and sensitivity of our relationship with Pakistan, there’ll never be any serious investigation into that.
The idea that United 93 was shot down doesn’t make sense because 99% of the debris was in one spot. I believe there was a engine and some other tiny pieces of debris that landed a couple miles away, but a plane isn’t built to withstand the aerodynamic stress of a dive at high speed, and it’s not shocking that an engine would have sheared off (as a believe happened in the case of EgyptAir 990). Also, the cockpit voice recording supports the idea that the plane was flown straight into the ground.
Parole Officer Burke
Obama should step down because of his connection to Rev. Wright too. Also.
Balconesfault
@Comrade Jake: I still have a sneaking suspicion that there was a “if some Al Qaeda types hijack a plane, we finally have our excuse to go kick some butt” mentality floating around neocon circles. And you have the John Ashcroft refusing to fly commercial all summer 2001. Given that the Bush crowd couldn’t anticipate an unintended consequence to save their lives, and that “outside the box thinking” (hey – what might someone who hijacks a plane DO with it?) was anathema to that crowd, it always seemed wholly possible to me that the look on Bush’s face when he took his momentary break from “My Pet Goat” was “oh shit … nobody told me this could happen” – and that the reason they wisked him away on airplanes for hours afterwards was so a bunch of serious men could sit around him for hours and make sure that “oh shit” expression could never again be shown in public.
Chad N Freude
@Parole Officer Burke: Every elected or appointed official who isn’t Jesus should step down.
Balconesfault
@JK:
slag
@JK: The birther issue has taken Obama off-message. Do you understand my point? And I will only stop being sarcastic if you stop being a moron.
Chad N Freude
@Balconesfault: I read his expression somewhat differently, more along the lines of “Huh?”
Parole Officer Burke
@Chad N Freude: Jesus was a Communist, palled around with prostitutes, and was a Middle Easterner to boot. He, too, must be purged.
MikeJ
Jones is not taking the WH off message. The right is doing that. They will do that every day until a Republican is in office.
rh
If you want to look into a conspiracy theory/cover-up that’s actually true, it’s all about Lockerbie. Al-Megrahi is about as guilty of killing 270 people as my great aunt.
gnomedad
OT, BOB’s babbling made me think about load management, e.g., offering lower rates when wind power is online. It strikes me that rate data could be broadcast over the internet without waiting for a “smart grid”. I find it hard to imagine that this is not already happening somewhere. Anyone know anything about this?
tim
Oh fuck that bullshit, Cole. Anyone who accepts the entire, official version of 9/11 as truth is just as stupid as can possibly be.
Way too many holes and inconsistencies and humongous, unanswered, legitimate questions remain.
It does not, however, as right wingers, Bush apologists and apparently you would have us believe, that this means the planes were holograms or that Martians hijacked them.
That is the MO of those who want anyone with a curious mind to STFU: toss all the imbecilic theories in with the reasonable ones and then tar everyone involved with same “truther” brush of the crazy.
And let’s keep in mind that John Cole drank the Bush koolaid for years after it was obvious they were sheisters, and thus has little credibility to be “shussshing” others.
Chad N Freude
@Balconesfault: Keeping Daschle would have yielded the same result WRT the agenda while adding sideshow of “scofflaw”.
gwangung
Pardon me, but what is the difference between this and the Discovery Institute’s fraudulent petition that “over 700 scientists” deny evolution (when the petition said nothing of the sort). That was the first thing that came to mind.
ellaesther
I have barely been able to be on the intertubez today, and I don’t see the person I’m looking for here right now, and I don’t know when I’ll be able to get back on!
So: If licensed to kill time shows up, would someone be kind enough to tell him/her that I was so grateful for that Vanity Fair quote yesterday that it (with credit where its due) are at the center of my own blog post today?
Pretty please? kthxbai!
Oh, and also? I’M SO FURIOUS ABOUT THIS FUCKING SCHOOL NONSENSE THAT I COULD CUT A BITCH!
God DAMN!
Balconesfault
@gnomedad:
Don’t know that it’s happening, but it’s on the way. Here in Austin the Pecan Street Project has a block grant proposal in for some stimulus funds to help a study of exactly how to do that.
There are some issues to overcome on equipment, protocols, rate structures, etc – usually targeted at higher prices for traditionally higher load times (eg – afternoons) with discounted rates for lower load times (coincidentally – nighttime is when the wind tends to blow hardest, as well). The vision is you being able to set up an energy budget for your home, targeted at a certain amount of energy spending per month, and all the appliances and such giving you feedback on how much they consume and when it’s best to use them (so you might have your washer kicking itself in at 6 in the morning so clothes will be ready for you to hang or put in the dryer at 7 before heading to work, rather than running during evening heavy load times).
And of course, we’ll all be recharging our electric cars at night!
Andy K
@slag:
I’m not buying it. The Republicans in the Senate are still holding up the confirmation of a few hundred of Obama’s political appointees. The GOP raised hell about the stimulus package (and not because they perceive it as too weak), they did the same with the bailout of GM and Chrysler. Card check! Death panels! Keep the government’s hands off of Medicare! Soshialism! Facism! Obama was born in Kenya/Indonesia/Japanese-occupied Hawaii!
They don’t give a shit about Van Jones, except to add to the dissonance and confusion.
rock
If Jones is worth having in the administration (meaning he’s not a truther loon), he’s worth standing behind.
Dropping him will only lead to further republican and media “outings” of flawed appointees. If it is not Jones, it will be something else. Death panels, death books, talking to school kids. It will not end.
Obama is not “burning political capital”, whatever that means, if he keeps Jones. Removing Jones will not let them control the media so that they can be “on-message”. The best course, if he’s a worthwhile employee, is to keep him and essentially ignore the controversy.
I’m really tired of ginned up controversies. And it’s time for Obama to quit conceding power to a bunch of people that yell a lot. The concessions are what weaken a presidency, not standing firm in the face of attacks.
Ajay
I dont think its a big deal but he will probably be gone. When this happened it was pretty clear that govt was hiding a lot. I remember even DildoReilly saying we need to go after traders who made money trading markets based on this info.
I dont think Bush administration was smart enough to pull this off but having doubts about the whole thing wasnt entirely abnormal.
JK
@Balconesfault:
Daschle stabbed Obama in the back. He knew he had skeletons in the closet but refused to disclose them during the vetting process. Daschle got exactly what he deserved.
@slag:
There’s nowhere else for the birther issue to go. A few idiots in the House of Reps signed a stupid petition. The so called Kenyan birth certificate has been proven to be a hoax. The birthers are fighting among themselves. The birther story has lost all traction within the MSM. Millions of wingnut jackasses may still buy into the birther nonsense, but the MSM has moved on from this story. The birther story is over among the chattering class who appear on cable news and write op ed columns.
The Van Jones story is just getting started. Do you have ESP or has Van Jones texted you to assure you that he has no more skeletons in his closet?
Quaker in a Basement
@SGEW:
No, my blockquote broke.
gizmo
I don’t see how Van Jones erred in being skeptical of the official version of the events of 9/11. The Bush administration lied repeatedly about the rationale for our assault on Iraq and took this nation into war under false pretenses. They ran a horrendous torture program and destroyed some of the evidence. They violated the our Constitution in more ways than I can count.
And Van Jones should be marginalized for thinking that maybe we aren’t getting the straight story on 9/11?
WTF????
El Cid
Outrageously negligent, not incompetent. Negligent.
Eric U.
as far as I’m concerned, there never was a truth commission about how bad the Bush administration screwed up their first year. I’m not really a truther, but I’m positive that there were some un-American bastards working for the Bush administration — Cheney being the number one example. Some of the crap that we know of about our government’s actions prior to 9/11 is really inexplicable. No way the same thing would have happened under a Gore administration. The Bush admin’s main priority that first year was to get an anti-missile defense system funded. I don’t think that LIHOP is a good theory unless the idea is they didn’t realize how bad the attacks would be. I think they just realized what an opportunity the attacks were for them and ran with it. If they weren’t such idiots we’d have a republican government right now, heading towards some sort of distopian Christian Theocracy.
balki
@tim:
Exactly. I find it really odd that this is the one “official story” from the Bush years that you absolutely must accept word-for-word. Questioning the story instantly labels you a “truther”, and according to JC, you should be barred from public service for having the nerve to question the story given to us by the Bush administration, the Commission, and those hard-nosed public watchdog journalists at CNN, NYT, WaPo, etc. How dare anyone question that brain trust?
“Truthers” are not a homogeneous group. Loose Change does not represent the views of everyone who questions the story. Some have their own theories as to what happened, others just think the 9/11 Commission was insufficient. Perhaps you should first find out what, specifically, Van Jones believed then and believes now before banishing him. JC, I’m a big fan, but this post is disappointing.
gnomedad
@Balconesfault:
Awesome! Thanks for the link.
binzinerator
@Woodrowfan:
Second this.
I’d agree with this statement too: “evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.”
@John Cole
I guess I’m a truther because I do believe getting a warning about an impending attack and then blowing it off (Bush’s infamous “you’ve covered your ass” comment to the guy who hand-delivered the warning to him) looks a lot like letting it happen accidentally on purpose.
The WTC blown up by the gub’mint via remote detonation and thermite? What paranoid nonsense. But anyone who thinks it is unpossible the Bushies would have deliberately allowed an attack to happen is a fucking fool. The Bushies were masters at using inaction to acheive their ends. It wasn’t all incompetence, but playing the befuddled fool was sure convenient when needed.
We are talking about guys like Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld, remember? Guys like Rove. Guys like Addington. Guys who had no problem fabricating a casus belli, outing a US spy to punish the guy who provided a big clue it was all a lie, making torture a policy — even modeling their language for it and excuses to do it after the Gestapo — and conducting domestic spying — all the while lying about it, then setting up a bunch of privates and flunkies to take the fall, and then when cornered with solid evidence, simply claiming it was all done for our own good.
It isn’t paranoid to question whether the Bushies, especially Cheney, may have deliberately let 9/11 happen, or to want to know if they did. After 8 years of incredible ‘whoda thunk’ explanations for what we can now see were deliberate crimes and frauds it should be obvious to you that wanting such an investigation is common sense, not Trutherism.
You know what I’m getting at here. It’s only common sense to suspect LIHOP here, and in 2004 Van Jones apparently wasn’t a fool about what the Right and Bushism was doing and was capable of. I thought you had learned that too, albeit it took you a few years more.
Demo Woman
OT A friend just called and informed me that DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties are allowing students to opt out of the Presidents address. I’m sick!
slag
@JK:
Do you have ESP or has Van Jones texted you to assure you that he really did kill that girl and her boyfriend in a drunken, jealous rage?
WTF? We’ve gone from “Van Jones signed a petition and therefore he should be booted” to “Van Jones may have done way worse stuff, so we should go ahead and boot him anyway just for kicks.”
I believe in pre-emptive firing as much as I believe in pre-emptive wars and pre-emptive detentions. If Jones needs to go, let it be for something serious. This ain’t serious.
slag
@Andy K: In general, I agree. But there’s a reason they’re going after Jones now.
gnomedad
@Demo Woman:
Here is DuPage County of Obama’s home state, we’re move civilized.
rh
@Demo Woman:
DeKalb? I live in a blue state now and I’m pretty sure that DeKalb (my former home) is more democratic than any county in my entire state. Craziness.
Michael D.
You know who’s NUTS? David Whorowitz – that’s who.
Just sayin’
Eric U.
that wasn’t the best written comment. What I meant was that in the aftermath of 9/11, the Bush administration realized they had been given an opportunity. I really see nothing to contradict the theory that they were too lazy and incompetent to stop it even though they had lots of warnings that something was up. Their main response was to hide Bush in Texas for a month and hope the terrorists couldn’t find him.
ricky
@JK:
What is the skeleton? You sound like those who gave names to the House UnAmerican Activities Committee in the 50’s.
Andy K
@slag:
Okay, what is it?
ricky
Go ahead and read Jake Tappers blog@Andy K:
He helped found the organization Color of Chage, which is raising questions with Glenn Beck’s advertisers about Beck calling Obama racist. Pretty simple.
slag
@Andy K: Some folks say the Color of Change connection, but I think if it were just that, it would have burned out by now. So, I’m going with cap and trade.
Although, the typical right-wing obsession with powerful, nattily dressed black men certainly doesn’t hurt them in this instance.
JK
@ricky: @slag:
Van Jones needs to come clean and tell Obama ASAP if there’s anything else embarrassing or controversial that he has done.
If Jones hasn’t done anything embarrassing or controversial beyond signing this petition, this scandal has no legs, he’s in the clear and the MSM drops the story and moves on.
If Jones is hiding anything else, it’s only a question of when the MSM or the bloggers dig it out.
ricky
@slag:
They are going after Jones because he works for Obama
and he is tied to the group that attacked Beck. If he goes they will be on to the next Obama official because the attack on Jones worked.
mark robbins
“The fact is, he and many other credible people put their names to a document issued by an organization that is now a truther group. Period.”
Could someone please tell liberals that the impulse to jettison someone who’s worked pretty hard for their cause at the first sign of scandal is a really bad impulse?
Circle the wagons first, as least give your people the benefit of the doubt, while you figure out what happened.
In this case you have an organization with ZERO credibility who ROUTINELY add names to petitions surreptitiously and you’re already ready to throw the guy off the bus.
Take a lesson from Republicans: show some loyalty to people who work hard for causes you believe in.
binzinerator
One more thing. I think perhaps part of the reason some have a hard time thinking Bushies might have been ‘passively active’ in letting 9/11 happen is because of the terrible devastation of the attack. No one would let that happen right?
Well two things come to mind here.
One, I’m reminded of an observation Hanna Rosin made over at the Dish, regarding Hannah Arendt (of the ‘banality of evil’ fame): “The judges in the Eichmann trial, Arendt wrote, ‘missed the greatest moral and legal challenge of the whole case’ because they refused to believe that a person who was ‘neither feeble-minded not indocrinated nor cynical’ could be capable of such evil.”
I think most of the American people have missed their own greatest moral and legal challenge, for similar reasons.
And second, it is possible the Bushies believed the attack would be minor in damage and lives lost. It would be a lot easier to LIHOP if it was believed the attack would kill a small number of people or just make a big hole in the basement of a building.
Recall that the first WTC attack killed a couple people and blew a hole in the floor of the garage of one of the towers. A big attack for the time, but not a devastating one. In other words, the attack generally created a huge uproar at little cost in human terms.
I’d like to think even Bush and Cheney would have acted if they knew they could stop the incineration of 3,000 people, the destruction of a major landmark and a chunk of the Pentagon. But I can’t make myself believe that.
How many civilians have been killed in Iraq? A million? They have no qualms about that. Certainly expecting 3,000 innocent people killed as a consequence of their fake war was laughably low-ball, even to Bush invasion planners.
ricky
@mark robbins:
Hell the reason liberals whine is that they cannot learn from Republicans. They are worried about Cap and Trade or Health Care being watered down? They attack their Senators. They attack their President. Hell, there is a reason why Republicans do the bidding of their base and Democrats do not. Republicans have a reason to fear their base. Democrats do not.
mark robbins
I mean did anyone here read the comments on LGF? They’re defending him! They’re giving him the benefit of the doubt!
No wonder liberals can’t pass their agenda, considering the way allies get thrown off the bus at the slightest transgression.
Must maintain purity! Even though that’s a total pipe dream and all it does is make you a bunch of weak, backstabbing, easily manipulated rubes.
This dude is toast in a week and spends the next decade rebuilding his reputation for some bullshit he probably didn’t even do. It’s a fucking petition, who gives a shit?
Andy K
@ricky:
All that that tells me is what I already believe, ricky: That this is nothing but tit-for-tat partisanship.
slag claims that this is happening because Jones is critical to the green energy movement. While I’m not familiar enough with the movers and shakers of that movement to wholly disagree- Jones may, in fact, be irreplaceable- I think that the right is counting on the media to turn this one up to 11 not because they see Jones as a threat to energy policy as much as they see Obama as a threat to the right-wing culture club. This is as much more about defeating health care reform than it is about defeating energy reform.
ricky
@JK:
Within the next 24 hrs. think of everything you have done which could prove embarassing if someone knew you did it.
Or soemthing you are proud of that coulds be twisted if taken out of context. This is not about Jones it is about Obama. This is not about the charge, it is about who is making it. If smearing people by misrepresenting their past is the way you want business conducted, say so.
ricky
@Andy K:
This is not about health care it is about Clinton.
This is not about Monica it is about Clinton.
This is not about health care it is about Obama.
This is not about Jones it is about Obama.
And if it was not Obama it would be Hillary.
This is about the right wing smear machine making money by generating outrage about any Democrat who holds office.
ricky
@mark robbins:
You followed one link. Foloow that one to Jake “Race Card “Tapper. ” Folow his link to the 9-ll Truth Web Page. It wasn’t even a petition. It was a statement and they probably edited it after Jones and others names were used.
Nick
I’ve always thought that people who believed that true believers wouldn’t allow 3,000 people to be incinerated if it advanced their cause, to be naive in the extreme. As noted above, many more were killed in Iraq, including 4,000 of our military.
The biggest problem I have with LIHOP is that people in key positions would have to stay quiet. And they largely have–except for Colleen Rowlands.
If you could get that sort of acquiescence, combined with the fact that many people in different positions don’t know what other people know, and thus don’t know the value of their own information, THEN all you need is a whitewash of an investigation that doesn’t question people too closely about why they didn’t follow up on various data (why did various people not follow Rowlands’ info? Why didn’t the CIA notify domestic agencies of its warnings? Why weren’t those warnings taken seriously?
People from Bush down should have been subjected to rigorous public examination on those sorts of questions, and they weren’t.
So if a “patriot” at NORAD knows protocol wasn’t followed, s/he is unlikely to raise the issue if it will cause problems. With no investigation, it never really gets addressed.
Andy K
@ricky:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, probably (but with less racism) and yes.
mark robbins
“re: #408 Ringo the Gringo
So he’s not a truther, he’s just a former Communist who’s recently converted to “Green-Capitalism”.
I feel much better about him now.
I’m not supporting Van Jones.
I don’t know how many times I have to post that.
But there are LIES being circulated about him. Argue with his positions, denounce him for his radical leftist background, all of that is fair.
But the non-stop lying makes me sick.”
John Cole, liberal supporter of green initiatives?!?!
NO! Charles of LGF!!
This whole topic is just really pissing me off. Liberals need to grow some balls.
ricky
@Parole Officer Burke:
If you believe the stories, they did not purge him, they nailed him.
mark robbins
@ricky
Completely immaterial to anything I said, but whatever.
Dollared
Fire Van Jones and the whole smear campaign is rewarded. Shut up and sit tight, and it goes away. And they next one is harder to start. It’s that damn simple.
I swear, it’s like Democrats never spent any time on a grade school playground.
binzinerator
@Kryptik:
The Iraq war was merely a result of incompetency?
God almighty, after all the stuff we’ve learned about non-existent WMDs, non-existent yellowcake from Niger, non-existent Iraqi anthrax, non-existent bin Laden-Saddam alliance, non-existent Al Qaeda in Iraq, surely, for fucks sake surely you can’t be dumb enough to still think it all happened because of fumblebutts and dipshits.
Lethally incompetent? Just how lethal will it have to be before you figure out it was way past incompetence? Oh I’m sure their fuckups cost lives. But it’s way past the ‘oopsie whoda thunk’ stage of fuckup.
And you’re ignoring something critical here. They planned the war, they effin’ invented the reason to invade and effin’ fired, shut up, intimidated into silence, threatened with imprisonment or even exposed to assassination anyone who offered up evidence to the contrary.
The planning and selling of the Iraq war came about not because everyone in Cheney’s office or Bush’s office or Rummy’s office didn’t know what the fuck they were doing. It happened because the reason for war was a calculated lie.
And the choices they made after the invasion — that was beyond incompetence. I’m not talking about the lack of armor or forgetting to secure ammo dumps. I’m talking about the big choices, the belief that we could get rid of Saddam, disband his army, keep the lid on the religious hatreds and on Iranian influence and make a modern democracy out of it — and do it all with 150,000 men, no draft, no new taxes, almost no allies and employ political flunkies with no experience as administrators — that was fucking delusional. Not incompetence. Fucking delusional.
mark robbins
“Shut up and sit tight, and it goes away.”
NO! How do you guys not get this? They’re targeting one of your loyal members, smearing him with something he didn’t do!
You don’t shut up about that. You go round the clock defending your own until they realize that if they want to come at you they better come at you hard, because you don’t back down for bullshit!
I know this goes against liberals aversion to violence, or something, but i’ll charitably chalk it up to a lack of testosterone.
I am not easily riled but this has me more pissed off than anything I’ve seen in a long time.
Nick
“And the choices they made after the invasion—that was beyond incompetence.”
——————–
I’ve struggled trying to understand the reasons for that. I just have a hard time believing anyone could be that stupid. There had to be a reason for botching the occupation so badly.
The alternative is pretty scary. And note that nobody on the right really called them to account for it.
Ed Marshall
There is a picture of me at a protest pre-invasion and there is some guy holding a “911 was an inside job” there and the pic ran in the paper. I’d be beyond pissed if anyone told me I should have beat him to death with his sign or called off the whole protest because he was there.
dobrojutro
If the administration caves, what does this do to the vetting process to fill all the open high-level positions in the adminstration? I imagine scores of highly-qualified folks don’t care for all the screwtiny – particularly if a RWmedia hissy will get you thrown overboard.
Aljay
Here is the Petition. I hope this link works:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633
Honestly, I don’t think it’s that bad. The organization behind it may be a bit zealous, but all the petition asks for is an investigation. Besides Ralph Nader signed it too. That may or may not help Van’s case.
HyperIon
@JK: He did something stupid and apparently did not mention the petition while he was being vetted.
Serious question: can YOU remember all the petitions you have ever signed? I doubt he recalled the event. There’s vetting and then there is: Imagine the world driven by wingnuts. Anything in your past that they could possibly make hay out of?
I think most people would/could not have imagined this scenario. This isn’t like “naked on Facebook”. He signed a petition. I doubt the possibility that it was something that could bite him in the butt ever occurred. Why would it?
It’s not like he wrote a master’s thesis outlining how his party should work harder to defeat the evil feminists and gays.
JK
@ricky: @HyperIon:
I trust that Van Jones is savvy enough to know if there are any other potentially damaging or embarrassing incidents or actions from his past that the White House should be given a heads-up on before the cable news talking find about it.
HyperIon
@KevinNYC: thanks for the info but
WHERE”S THE FUCKING LINK?
sorry to be so irritable but you can’t paste the stuff in without attribution. anybody can say anything. PLEASE cite a source.
balki
@HyperIon:
Ajay posted the link in comment 215. And you should chill out. You could have either asked politely or found the source using Google, had you not hyperventilated first.
HyperIon
@Eric U.: I’m positive that there were some un-American bastards working for the Bush administration—Cheney being the number one example.
I prefer arguments that are not based on impugning someone’s patriotism. Calling someone or something “un-American” is plain stupid IMO. Make a substantive argument. That is, use facts.
JK
Meg Whitman, running for Governor of California, had once said good things about Van Jones.
“My husband and I met him and many others on a cruise sponsored by National Geographic and The Aspen Institute. He talked about supporting job growth in California, but of course I did not do a background check of his past over dinner. As these reports have surfaced, it’s clear that he holds views that I entirely reject; any suggestion otherwise is ridiculous.”
h/t http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Whitman_distances_from_Jones.html
JK
The Hill writes about another Van Jones video
Jones likens Bush to a ‘crackhead’ in latest video gaffe
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/57373-jones-likens-bush-to-a-crackhead-in-latest-video-gaffe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoc34dvh9AM
HyperIon
@balki: And you should chill out. You could have either asked politely or found the source using Google, had you not hyperventilated first.
and you should fuck off.
balki
@HyperIon:
Zing!
HyperIon
JC writes in a post titled “Speaking of Nuts”: If Van Jones is a truther….
Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.
HyperIon
@HyperIon: Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.
JC update: And, as usual, it is looking like it is all nonsense.
and changed it. You do this a lot. It has a strong flavor of Emily Letelier’s “Never mind”, except you seldom actually say “Wow, what a doofus I am, falling for that AGAIN”.
But fear not, there is more “controversy” lurking (“Bush crackhead”). So you can add another update later. This could go on forever, no?
SGEW
@HyperIon:
The “Bush is a crackhead” video is fucking awesome, by the way. As is the “Republicans are assholes” one (skip to 0:38). They actually make me really proud that he’s an Obama administration advisor.
Seriously!
PaulW
If Van Jones is being asked to resign for being a Truther, then every elected official bouncing around as a Birther ought to be asked to resign as well.
If one form of extremist crazy BS is being pushed out the door, so should the other extremist crazy BS.
Xanthippas
Well, I don’t know. Ben Smith refers to that as “trutherism-lite” and I think he’s right. I mean, wouldn’t signing of even the narrower document indicate you have some misgivings about whether the 9/11 attacks were in fact carried about Al Qaeda terrorists? I don’t know how much of a defense it is to say that the truthers are now lying about exactly how much of their nonsense you believe.
Anyway forgive me if I’m muddling this. I’m really not familiar with the Truther-ism stuff, mostly because the 12 hours a day I spend on the internet still does not permit enough time to waste any reading that nonsense.
Dollared
@mark robbins
I agree that it would be more fun to flame the Birthers and defend Van. But if you just shut up then there is no story. Flame them back and then Van is just like a Birther, but we defend him. And the story goes on.
You want to fight back, take the Birthers and the Truthers and “fiscal responsibility” and shove it in Boehner’s face, and Enzi’s face. Demand to get Russ Feingold or Sheldon Whitehouse on MTP every time McCain is.
Don’t fight this battle. Pick a different one.
HyperIon
@SGEW: They actually make me really proud that he’s an Obama administration advisor.
Me, too.
And thanks for supplying the links.
“they’re assholes” actually explains a lot IMO.
slag
@JK: You still don’t get it.
This. Is. Van. Jones. This isn’t some milquetoast governor from some craptastic midwestern state. Obama feeds Van Jones to the right over this nonsense, he might as well take a twofer and sucker punch Al Gore in the face while he’s at it.
Why hasn’t the left been more pissed off about the weakass cap and trade bill? Thank Van Jones. Why has the left given Obama a relatively wide berth in his dealings with the automakers? Thank Van Jones. If Obama fires Jones now, one of two things is true:
1. They’ve got pictures of Jones doing lines off a hooker’s ass.
2. They have no problem telling everyone in the environmental movement to go f#&! themselves.
This is one of the drawbacks of having superstars on your bench. If team Obama cares about their most loyal supporters, they need to keep their starters on the team. Even when they mouth-off a little.
Jen7
We have birthers in congress, one that wants to investigate congressmen/women, ex KKK member, and God know what else…..and these kooks want an adviser to the President out because he’s a supposed communist, racist, and truther?!?!
Anyone else feel like banging your head against the wall these days? The stupidity on the right is stunning.
BTW, Beck went after Jones before colorofchange.com went after him. So, he’s not doing this because of that. He’s doing it because he hates Obama. He came out lying about Van Jones on July 23, 2009, a week before he called Obama a racist.
balki
@Xanthippas:
“Anyway forgive me if I’m muddling this. I’m really not familiar with the Truther-ism stuff, mostly because the 12 hours a day I spend on the internet still does not permit enough time to waste any reading that nonsense.”
Really? Because despite your admitted ignorance on the issue it sure seems like you have an opinion that you’re comfortable expressing. You say don’t have time to read about it, but you seem to have time to tell us what you think of it. What do you think of some other important issues you don’t know about?
I have done a good deal of research on the topic, and I feel that there are questions that have not been adequately addressed. I won’t go into those questions here, as this isn’t the forum for that, but I don’t subscribe to most of the items brought up in Loose Change, for example. I don’t give a shit what Ben Smith calls it (despite his high journalistic integrity). You guys point to the strawman-destroying Popular Mechanics article and say that anyone who still has questions is the intellectual equivalent of a birther. That’s pretty fucked up.
The problem, admittedly, is that the majority of the popular “truther” websites ARE as bad as you say. Still, there are good resources out there if you look (if you decide to try reading instead of opining, that is).
Mr Furious
@KevinNYC: Shit! I’ll sign that petition here and now. None of those questions has been satisfactorily answered, and none of them makes me a Truther for asking.
PartyLikeIts1990
Once, just once, I would like to see a WH whose response to this kind of thing would be to extend a middle finger to the Glenn Becks and conventional-wisdom commentariats of the world.
Or fight fire with fire. It’s becoming commonly known that Glenn Beck may have raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. The longer he fails to come forward and deny this, the more curious it seems.
gocart mozart
Debunked by the lizard heads. Who would have thunk it. LGF does go on tosay that he should resign for other reasons like membership on the board of directors of a wacky far left organization. Just look atr some of his fellow board members. The evil Bishop Desmond Tutu! I mean c’mon.
“Members of the Institute’s board of directors and extended faculty include Bishop Desmond Tutu, professional pseudoscientist Rupert Sheldrake, religious left guru Michael Lerner, and the Clown Prince of Quackery himself, Deepak Chopra. You’ll find Van Jones listed as a fellow on the board of directors page, along with “collective consciousness” scholar Chris Bache and former Noetic Institute president James O’Dea, who currently runs a variety of “spiritual” retreats and workshops.”