On my tv is a debate over whether to vote for the resolution smacking Rep. Wilson on the hand for his outburst, and my gut instinct is the apology was enough and this is now more theatre of the absurd. Having said that, I know full well what the Republicans would have done were the shoe on the other foot- they would probably be moving to hold a special election to remove him after having censured him. Hell, the crazies wanted Dick Durbin censured for speaking the truth.
I guess if you can get impeached for a blow job, a toothless resolution for breaking House rules seems about right.
Dream On
The Wildon debate is the perfect cover to distract people from how bad the final health-care really will be.
MANDATES, BABY!
LittlePig
Yep. At this point the Democrats are just giving Joe Yeller an extension of his 15 minutes. Let it go.
someguy
Wilson should have been expelled, mainly on the strength of his appalling political viewpoints, but if the uncivil speech outburst was the reason, well, any ****ing port in a lying mother******* storm, I say.
Sentient Puddle
My view on this is that if they can play this right, the Democrats can goad the Republicans into doing more stupid things, which they can then parade around to the public. Of course, this assumes that the Democrats have a game play more elaborate than “OMGWTFBBQ you dissed teh messiah!!1”
ricky
Yes, it is much better form to accuse the President of wanting to kill old people when he is not in the room.
flounder
Eric Cantor seems to be saying that the House shouldn’t vote on anything unless it creates a job for some lazy slacker who can’t create one on their own or increases national security.
Zifnab
The only thing that matters to me is will this matter to the public in 2010? If Wilson’s censure becomes an eye roller for the public, then just drop it already. The wingnut base already made him a Hero of the Coming Revolution. No need to spotlight it more than they already have. But if people really want to see Wilson raked over the coals, or if keeping the House busy on this means fewer GOP shenanigans, then by all means, let the show trials commence. At least it’ll make for fun TV.
General Winfield Stuck
Dumb as dirt Joe Wilson goes to Washington. There has to be a movie script in this, if there is a comedy gawd.
DougJ
I think they have to do this. It was a breach of House rules and if they don’t do this, every yahoo in the Republican party will be doing this soon.
I also suspect that while Republicans will vote against it, they probably agree that it should be done.
Tim F.
This will let Republicans argue that they police their own. Or not.
NutellaonToast
no, it doesn’t seem rigght. two wrongs don’t make ones of those
Sentient Puddle
@DougJ: What, you think a toothless reprimand will make them not do things like this?
General Winfield Stuck
They all will be anyway. There will be a rush for wingers to get canonized with a censure from The Great Red Queen.
Good for fundraising and general wingnut morale.
Zuzu's Petals
I disagree that the apology to Obama was enough.
He owes an apology to the House for the outrageous breach of decorum, if not rules. There is no doubt that if he had shouted such an epithet to another member during debate he would be disciplined.
He should apologize not just for breaching decorum (which makes it sound so sissified), but for insulting the House and casting it in such a poor light.
J.D. Rhoades
This needs to be a public calling out of Reps who’ll vote against even this very mild reproof of Wilson. It needs to be a goddamn roll call vote, and any Rethuglican swine who whines and complains about a lack of “bipartisanship” and then backs this kind of trailer trash yay-hoo tactic, needs to be exposed for the fucking hypocrite they are.
Tom
I hate the “imagine what the (insert other party) would have done” argument. While sometimes it is legitimate (as it might be here), it’s become the lazy person’s argument. It’s an unprovable, and hence undeniable, argument. When all else fails, just say “imagine what the Democrats would have done if…”
Wilson apologized and his actions speak for themselves, no need to draw this out any longer, mainly because I just walked by CNN in the breakroom at my office and was forced to hear Boehner say “Joe Wilson is a decent man.” This whole thing is ridiculous. If they’re going to censure him, at least just do a quick up and down vote. Do we really need to debate this any more?
gbear
@DougJ:
And once it’s done it will be over with for everyone except Beck. It’s not like the house is going to debate this all week (gawd I hope not…)
I say, let them bash.
Keith
His apology lost its meaning after he started raising money over the outburst with his whole “They cannot silence me!” schtick.
dmsilev
If Barack Obama really was the fascist dictator that the teabaggers insist he is, Representative Wilson would have already been sent to
the Ostfrontthe Barack Obama Pyramid construction gangs and his family would have all been arrested for crimes against the state.I think Leader Obama is showing a remarkable amount of mercy here.
-dms
Martin
Spot on. Rules stop working when you stop enforcing them. The House rule against this exists for a reason (a good reason).
So much for ‘rule of law’ Republicans.
someguy
What this debate makes me realize is, Where is Blackwater when you need them? I’m sure they’d figure out an adequate punishment, for the right price.
Davis X. Machina
Spot on. Rules stop working when you stop enforcing them.
It’s the ‘broken window’ theory of parliamentary procedure…
Don
I think this would have looked a lot better if it had happened quicker. A week later to give someone a (deserved) slap for being a jackass elevates it to more than it was and lends itself better to partisan claims.
dmsilev
@Tom:
Well, we know what the other party would have done, because they did it. Remember MoveOn and the “General Betrayus” flap? The GOP threw a screaming hissy fit until the House passed a resolution condemning the ad.
-dms
ricky
@dmsilev:
If Barack Obama really was the fascist dictator that the teabaggers insist he is, Representative Wilson would have already been sent to the Ostfront the Barack Obama Pyramid construction gangs and his family would have all been arrested for crimes against the state.
And if he was only half that they at least would have taken away Wilson’s shoes.
Tom
Technically he didn’t since the House was not in session, so house rules don’t apply to speeches to joint-sessions.
DougJ
What, you think a toothless reprimand will make them not do things like this?
Yes, to some extent .
One thing to realize is that, no matter how idiotic a lot of members of the House are, they are generally very proud of being Congressmen, walking in the footsteps of the Founding Fathers and so on. They don’t like being the subject of even the mildest forms of censure, for the most part, Jerry Stubbs notwithstanding.
SarahLoving
this is a violation of the rules. if senators and congressmen flout the rules of their own making, it is continuing with a disturbing precedent that the bushies started. letting it slide would be a really bad idea.
it’s not about obama anymore, it is about upholding the regulations of the institution and i think decorum is very important. this bullshit cannot be tolerated.
General Winfield Stuck
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Yes, the nature and place for apologies like these should be Commensurate with the offense. You fuck up on national teevee, then you apologize at least on cspan on the House Floor. And this one is also being covered be cable news.
gbear
@Tom: You win the lamest argument on the internets award today.
MK
I’m sorry but I think the wrong Joe Wilson is consuming media cycles. And brain cells.
The Grand Panjandrum
I don’t know. Should Congress be in the business of deciding who the assholes are? That’s a pretty long, and undistinguished list. The only thing that will matter in the long run is how good the health care bill turns out to be.
You know if the Democrats were smart they would provide every skeptic a link to the Federal employee health insurance page and ask them if they would like a similar deal? Right now, if you didn’t have the government chipping in you could get a decent insurance plan regardless of pre-exisitng conditions and no RECISSION possible in most states for about $125-150 every two weeks for a single, and about $300-350 every two weeks for a family of four! Again that is WITHOUT ANY government subsidy. THAT is the power of negotiating in large numbers. You get a good deal. I think all these “free market” fetishists would at least get that, no?
I guess I’m just sick of all the attention given to another dumb fuck wingnut who isn’t really named Joe. Jesus Babbling Christ! And that ain’t no lie.
Sentient Puddle
@Tom:
True. We can’t say for sure what would’ve happened if the parties were reversed. We only have a confidence rating of approximately 99.7% (based on prior incidents) that Republicans would’ve hounded the hell out of the Democrat. Which is indeed less than 100% certainty.
It’s the political game. Suppose for the sake of the argument that Joe Wilson became toxic to America as a whole. If you make Boehner go out there and defend Wilson, then you’ve just heaped some of that toxic waste on to the leader of the house Republicans, and thus the party as a whole. That’s why you draw this thing out.
flukebucket
I just saw a blurb on Yahoo stating that Wilson was refusing to apologize. And here I thought he had already apologized. And now Human Events is sending me emails asking me to stand with Joe Wilson against the liberal attacks.
I get so god damn sick of this shit sometimes I wish I was rich enough to go Galt.
Tom
@gbear
Uh, well, it wasn’t an argument, it was a statement of fact.
burnspbesq
Wilson should be tarred and feathered and run across the 14th Street Bridge on a rail.
But srsly, wouldn’t you love to see Obama do a House of Commons-style question period in the well of the House? Watching him skewer Republicans would be teh doubleplusgood.
slag
What I find frustrating about this is that they’re considering disciplining him for yelling out loud like a moron. Not for actually being a moron and not knowing what the hell he was yelling about. There’s a difference between saying something moronic and persisting in your moron-ness. This dude persists. So, let us now begin an era of McCarthyism for morons. We’ll kick off the hearings with Joe Wilson and see where they lead.
Tom
That’s probably true, I just find the whole concept of “imagine what the other party would have done” to be incredibly tiresome and pointless. I’d rather stick to reality than to debate hypotheticals whenever possible.
Skalite
It is a matter of (or at least it should be) decoroum and pride. If I go to a party at the home of my friend, get drunk, and loudly and publically insult and verbally abuse another guest, I owe her/him an apology the next day. I ALSO owe an apology to my friend who threw the party, for ruining the party and making them look bad in front of their friends and relations. To a lesser extent, I owe at least a nod that I was out of line to everyone who attended the party (at least so far as I can contact them).
Joe Wilson insulted the president. So he should apologize to the president. He did. Joe Wilson did this in public, so it should be in public. And it was. But Joe Wilson did this in the “home” of the Congress. He owes Congress an apology as well: on the floor, in the record, and in front of everyone. That’s the nature of stupidity: you have to pay for the consequences of your actions – all of the consequences.
MK
@burnspbesq:
Actually, I would’ve preferred a House of Commons-style question period when Bush was in office.
Elie
This is stupid and sucks up energy. It makes them powerful to play their stupid games.
Joe Wilson’s outburst was not spontaneous. It was planned — a set up strategy for just the shenanigans taking place now…
Its a time waster and a divider. It accomplishes nothing but to let a bunch of congress dudes to scream at each other to stir up partisan opinions.
It does nothing to reconcile or solve anything — a major time waster that we seem to like almost as much as the Republicans
General Winfield Stuck
Yes, and this is why this is a big deal, for all of them, and us. It’s saying no to something both parties have complied with forever.
JK
True, Joe Wilson apologized.
However, Wilson wants to have it both ways:
1. A TPM story last week quoted Wilson boasting about the support he received from colleagues and constituents for his outburst.
2. Wilson has used his outburst as a fundraising tool.
3. Wilson appeared on Sean Hannity’s radio show where Hannity defended his behavior
If Joe Wilson was sincere in his apology, he would not have taken any of the actions I listed above.
Bottomline – Wilson is a lying, obnoxious scumbag who deserves to be censured
If Congress can pass a resolution criticizing Move-On.org for calling David Petraeus, David Betray-Us, Congress must take action against scumbag Joe Wilson.
shoutingattherain
Tar. Feathers. Rail. Then a swift kick in the nuts. Justice.
I’m feeling especially vindictive today.
Shawn in ShowMe
Van Jones had to resign for a personal statement he made when he wasn’t even an office-holder. This guy slandered the President in a joint sessions address on national television. There’s no public outcry for his resignation, we’re just asking that the censure rules be enforced. Is there ANY situation where the rules can be expected to apply to Republicans?
JK
@Skalite:
Excellent Point.
Joe Wilson has serious cajones.
He insults Obama in PUBLIC before a national tv audience.
Now, he thinks a PRIVATE telephone apology is equivalent.
Wilson can go fuck himself.
kay
@Elie:
I disagree. He broke the rule, and then he bragged about breaking the rule, issued a really ungenerous apology, and raised money off breaking the rule.
He set himself up for a sanction, as far as I’m concerned. It’s not MY rule, so I don’t have to agree or disagree with it. It’s his. He’s a (voluntary) member of that assembly, and he signed on to the rules.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
According to Rep. Franks (Wingnut-AZ) on Hardball, Wilson “had three sons in Iraq” and he “gave his life” for our country thus he “has been punished enough”. Franks “knows” Wilson so he knows Wilson meant it when he apologized to Rahm.
I am getting to the point that just hearing a southern drawl on TV makes me ill because I know it is going to be some wingnut whining how life isn’t fair to them.
SarahLoving
omg, i’m watching msnbc’s tallying of the yea’s and nay’s for the censoring vote. and there are 2 democratic nays thus far! PATHETIC.
2 minute warning and all the votes will be in.
Chad N Freude
@Tom:
No, but Wilson’s party wants to keep it going as theater to keep the base frothing.
Leelee for Obama
@The Grand Panjandrum: Jeebus on a pogo stick! I’d love to have the opportunity to buy into those numbers. Thanks for posting that! I get why the Public Option is still needed, to keep those numbers in check-but what an amazing savings. One question-are only HMOs available? I don’t know all that much about Health Ins, cause I haven’t had any in ages, but is that the only game available to Fed Employees?
Elie
kay:
You are literally correct but is being correct the effect we want here? Is the distraction worth it? Maybe he breaks the rule, it gets him this attention and we reward him by making him into a martyr of sorts? How is that smart for us?
So, after we “punish” him (har-de-har-har) by doing what they want, do you expect that we will see more or less of this? Most importantly, do you think that these consequences will act as a deterrent or an attractor to more of this crap…
Crap is crap and you don’t get clean by dealing with crap. Yes, there are definitely times for fighting and fighting hard to win. This is just playing and wasting time and most importantly, giving these assholes exposure and the chance to play their game.
Describe for me how you consider this to give us any positive from this at all…Describe for me how this just doesnt seed them power and attention…
The Grand Panjandrum
Shorter Wilson: Madam Speaker I am here today wasting the gummints time, because you guys have decided to be mean to me, make me eat my vegeatbles AND waste the gummints time.
How do you even began to make shit up when the material writes itself in real time?
J.D. Rhoades
I am getting to the point that just hearing a southern drawl on TV makes me ill because I know it is going to be some wingnut whining how life isn’t fair to them.
I’ve got a solution for that. Put me on TV.
de stijl
Waterboard him. It’s just like fraternity hijinks!
They’ll all have a good laugh about it afterwards, then they’ll binge drink and date rape some freshmen girls.
Good times, good times.
Midnight Marauder
@Sentient Puddle:
My view on this is that if they can play this right, the Democrats can goad the Republicans into doing more stupid things, which they can then parade around to the public. Of course, this assumes that the Democrats have a game play more elaborate than “OMGWTFBBQ you dissed teh messiah!!1”
Exactly. I just don’t have an abundance of faith in them to pull it off.
joes527
Everyone is getting all bent over how Wilson was soooooo rude.
Fuck that shit.
I think the President (all Presidents, not just this one) should regularly be told to go fuck themselves by members of congress. If congress don’t have the balls, I’m sure Dick Cheney is available). And when Presidents lie, everyone within hearing distance should shout in unison “Shut your pie hole, you lying sack of shit”
Our republic would be stronger if we did this.
Wilson’s sin was not shouting “You Lie!” to the president. (Oh how I wish there were congresscritters with the stones to shout “You Lie!” when GBII was firing up the Iraq war machine) Wilson’s sin was shouting “You Lie!” when the president wasn’t actually lying.
And that is totally getting lost in the whole “Oh dear, Wilson used his SALAD fork to eat his entrée. I must faint!” thing that is going on. At best, it is getting treated as a he said/she said kind of thing. As if there were no such things as facts.
Obama (and every president) should be called out each and every time that they lie. But anyone who calls out “You Lie” when what they really mean is “What you are saying doesn’t correspond to what Glen Beck/Lou Dobbs told me” should be pilloried mercilessly.
Instead, Wilson is being celebrated by the right and taken to task over his etiquette by the left.
Pathetic.
Dream On
This is part of an elaborate conspiracy by Dick Cheney. By exposing the craven silliness of a rude corporate tool named “Joe Wilson” in public, it will make American support for (the real) Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame disappear forever. Thus letting Cheney and Karl Rove off the hook…
I sort of jest, but it is a happy coincidence. Now who can say “Joe Wilson’s career was ruined by Karl Rove!” and find anyone who cares?
The Grand Panjandrum
@Leelee for Obama: No. go to think link and you will see that have a Fee For Service plan. That is the current unsubsidized plan. The employees only pay about 25-30% of that. But you can see what a good deal they get now. With reform we might actually see those rates go down over time. Affordable coverage is possible if people would just take the time to do some homework and look at how the public option is supposed to work.
JK
@The Grand Panjandrum:
This is all Joe Wilson’s fault.
The Democrats would not have to engage in this exercise if Joltin’ Joe would just man up and issue an apology on the floor of the House chamber.
But NOOOOOOOOOO (RIP John Belushi), Joltin’ Joe thinks he’s too cool to issue an apology on the floor of the House
Shawn in ShowMe
I think it’s smart because it shows that the Dems enforce the rules whether Rush Limbaugh’s audience likes it or not. They are a declining force in this country. It’s time for them to get used to it.
Calouste
I want to look at Wilson legislative record in a year or so and see how Pelosi has allowed him to bring to the House floor. I expect it to be a fairly poor year for Wilson’s district with regards to federal dollars.
Leelee for Obama
@The Grand Panjandrum: Thanks, I’ll do that.
Neutron Flux
Test
kay
@Elie:
I don’t know. I didn’t think he should be sanctioned, but I didn’t know they had this elaborate four-tier sanction system.
I think if you sign on to rules, you probably have to take this minor hit, and just apologize and get on with your life, or accept the sanction.
I’m not particularly big on punishment, but, I do accept the rules that I sign on to, and if there’s a sanction attached to breaking one, I accept that too. He’s not sitting in that seat against his will.
Why can’t he accept like anyone else would have to? I feel as if this is backwards. He’s not really a victim here.
He could have done this with a hell of a lot less drama, and a hell of a lot more grace, quite frankly, days ago.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Leelee for Obama: If you know anyone who’s on the cusp with regard to the public option this is exactly the link they need to go to and read. Obviously it isn’t the public option for all of us, but it does illustrate what kind of rates are possible when negotiated by those representing a very large pool of potential buyers.
Chad N Freude
@joes527: It’s not etiquette. It’s about maintaining respect for our institutions (whether they deserve it or not). If this kind of behavior is brushed off as trivial, eventually it will evolve into serious actions of disrespect — think splashing red paint on a senator giving a speech in the senate chamber — that will ultimately evolve into disrespect for (whatever is left of) the nation. why should we respect the Constitution if the institutions it created are trivialized and turned into public brawling spaces? The rules of decorum are not just etiquette, they are necessary to maintain a perception, accurate or not, of seriousness, orderly discussion, and — yes — respect for the Constitution and the country.
Warren Terra
@ Keith #18
This
(JK @ #18 made similar points, and others may have as well.)
His apology to Obama would have been fine, if there were any sign he meant it. Instead, he’s raising money, going on Hannity to brag about the event, and autographing photos of the moment he made his outburst. It’s not an apology unless you really want people to think you’re sorry.
Also, even if we were to accept the idea that he’s apologized to Obama, which as should be clear from what’s above I really don’t accept he’s done in any meaningful way, there is a case to be made that he needs to apologize to the House.
Moreover, this isn’t just about Joe Wilson: it’s about the Republican Party. Do the R’s want to be the party of Palin, Bachmann, the teabaggers and now Wilson – threatening violence and shouting falsehoods, including now as interruptions of an address to a joint session? Or do they want to be a constructive part of the body politic? I saw today that Boehner doesn’t want to vote to censure Joe Wilson, which I can only take to mean that Boehner no longer believes there’s any point to having a sane Republican party.
Chad N Freude
@kay:
OK, how about accepting the consequences of one’s actions.
The Grand Panjandrum
@JK: I know. Like I wrote earlier I’m just fed up with half-bright atavists not really named Joe getting so much attention.
bedtimeforbonzo
This headline made me laugh: Wlison’s Wife: I said, “I Said Who’s the Nut Who Hollered, ‘You Lie”
Funny woman.
General Winfield Stuck
@joes527:
While I might agree with you in principle, a more open style of debate and protocol is beside the point for this particular political theater. We have the system we have and every system has a set of rules for debate, and Wilson about as clearly as can be broke them with prejudice. So it is a no brainer what he must do, or put himself above the institution he serves in with the consent of the people.
Regardless of what anyone might wish the rules to be, were they changed.
Tsulagi
Yeah, little bit. I thought the apology was enough. Well, that plus a quiet punch or two behind the scenes say like Pelosi or committee chairman putting a temporary freeze on funding for some of his earmarks. If he publicly complained, then you’d have the comedy of the “fiscal conservative” bitching his pork isn’t sizzling.
Going this resolution route is just extending Wilson’s 15 minutes giving him more cred with the tards. Waste of time. Hopefully the Dems are smart enough to already have the votes lined up to pass this resolution before bringing it up. That would be pretty stupid to call for a vote and it fails.
slag
@Chad N Freude: Oh please. If Congress wants to maintain a perception of seriousness, this is not the way to do it. The way to do it is to know what the hell they’re talking about. Chuck Grassley should be sanctioned for talking out both sides of his head. Bill Frist should have been sanctioned for diagnosing Terri Schiavo via video. And Joe Lieberman should be sanctioned for being Joe Lieberman. Until members of Congress start acting in the people’s best interest, they will not be taken seriously no matter how many moronic Wilson’s they sanction. And that’s as it should be.
jdw
@Zifnab: If this slap on the wrist to Wilson stops further degradation of discourse in Congress then despite the time it took from serious business it was time well spent.
slag
Also, in honor of upcoming Punctuation Day, I’m now adding gratuitous apostrophes to my inflammatory statements. Also.
The Grand Panjandrum
The guy whose name is not really Joe has been officially told he is a naughty boy.
jl
Wilson broke the House rules, so they should impose the rule of law and perserve civilization as we know it. As they should have for Durbin if he broke the rules. I do not think Durbin did break any rules in his statement, but it was the Republicans’ rights in the House the make the case that he did. So, whatever, dude…
But why is this nonsense on TV? It shouldn’t be unless they have nothing better to cover. Like for example, how totally bogus Wilson’s charges are. Have they covered that yet, or is it too ‘reality based’ and ‘facty’ for the media’s comfort?
Colette
@slag: Unless you spell it “apostrophe’s”, yer not doin’ it right.
jl
@The Grand Panjandrum: Oh the humanity!! The awesome sight of lives and careers destroyed among the great and mighty!
JK
@slag:
John Boehner should be sanctioned for being John Boehner and Eric Cantor should be sanctioned for being Eric Cantor, also.
I don’t care if this sanction brings more attention to Joe Wilson. Wilson is an obnoxious scumbag who richly deserved a reprimand from the House. His outburst was despicable and his apology was as phony as a $3 dollar bill.
raff
What’s all this about toothless blowjobs then?
joes527
@Chad N Freude: The previous occupant of the office got way, way, WAY too much respect for the office by congress. And very bad stuff resulted.
You know what, if unchecked, will get out of hand and destroy governance? Lying. This idea that we have to be all genteel when we lie and are lied to makes me sick. Ah yes. Good show that. (insert golf clap)
If the President stood up and said that Sadam had WMDs and Joe Wilson shouted “You Lie!” he would be a hero. (actually, he did, but I’m confusing my Joe Wilsons here)
This casual acceptance of lying and being lied to is a terminal cancer on the body politic, and elevation of decorum over truth is how the last guy governed.
I’m not saying that there should be a free for all. What I’m saying is that _the_lie_itself_ should be the cause of audible gasps in the chamber, and the Nancy Pelosi look-o-death. In this case, it was Joe Wilson who was lying by making a false accusation. This is what is getting lost in the whole “he broke the rules of conduct for good little boys” discussion.
de stijl
<i.eventually it will evolve into serious actions of disrespect—think splashing red paint on a senator giving a speech in the senate chamber—that will ultimately evolve into disrespect for (whatever is left of) the nation.
Rechristen the Capitol as the Thunderdome.
Two congresspeople enter; one congressperson leave.
Elie
kay:
“He could have done this with a hell of a lot less drama, and a hell of a lot more grace, quite frankly, days ago”
Isnt that exactly the point? He did not want to do it with grace. He wanted the show and to get exactly what he is getting — undue attention for beign a jackass.
Yeah, he signed on to some sort of rules, but the rules are beside the point — the rule was breached to manipulate a situation to their benefit. You must certainly see that…
He and the folks that decided to do this no that the likelihood of any real negative consequence for him and them is slight but that their continued appearance in the news cycle and blogs just makes them all the more “important”. I asked you upstring, what is the positive benefit – strategically or tactically – to our side for pursuing this? Do you have an answer beyond “because its the rules”?
LoveMonkey
Wilson is good for Dem votes.
Let the buffoons be buffoons.
Did you see the guffaw Barack did on Sixty Minutes when asked about this?
That was a clue.
Elie
Man, my spelling sucks — typing too fast for my widdle bwain…
HumboldtBlue
theatre
Who the fuck are you, Sullivan? You’re a goddamned Steelers fan for Cthulu’s sake. What next, you pee in the loo? Fucking elitist.
slag
@JK: I agree about Joe Wilson, his scumbag effervescence, and his phony apology. I really don’t care about this sanction stuff. But, in general, I do care about seriousness. And I don’t want us to pretend this is serious.
Shawn in ShowMe
Fixed.
Cat Lady
How many people here have raised kids? You have to do what you say, and say what you mean, and follow through. It has to be done, or nothing you ever say or do will ever be taken seriously. Joe Wilson is a lying unrepentant unreconstructed turd, and a formal action is the absolute minimum that should be done. By the way, it was the black members of the SC congressional delegation that pushed this. They know what his disrespect is about, and know where it’s going. This shit has to stop, and this is a step forward. A baby step, but it’s a critical one to take.
Elie
Cat Lady:
I hear your point but you are sadly mistaken that this will do anything to stop the craziness. In fact, they undertook this action, the screaming at the speech and were probably HOPING for this response — and we gave it to them!
We are trying to do something very different from just matching their approach to gain power and attention by “punishing” them with more notoriety! Don’t you get that?
I know how you feel…I would like to just beat these fools into a bloody pulp. I would like them to experience complete and abject defeat and crushing demoralization. But they won’t get that from this little shit and you know it!
The punishment we must meet out is harder, will require enormous self discipline and focus and patience. We have to get healthcare passed, energy reform passed and get people working again. We have to restore confidence in government and raise trust Americans have in one another again. THAT is victory. Not this shit. It just plays in the media, gives them attention and makes our real goals that much harder to achieve as we are playing THEIR game…and distracting attention from it..
Barack Obama could care less about this fool. Why do we make the fool important?
JoyceH
This whole event train is a plus, I think. Wilson sat in the House for years without anyone outside his district even knowing his name, much less anything about him. But the nation knows him now, and knows that the Republican representative from South Carolina is a racist neo-confederate — and a huge GOP hero.
He’ll be given microphones and speaking opportunities out the wazoo now and serve as the new face of the Republican opposition.
And not only is he factually wrong and incredibly dense, but he is also just about the most completely charisma-free person I’ve ever seen!
Cat Lady
@Elie:
I don’t have any illusions it will change Joe Wilson’s behavior or anyone else’s. He’s now the Republican leadership’s problem more than he’s the Dem’s problem, but it’s absolutely vital that markers be laid down to show where the lines are. There are rules and the Dems need to enforce them, because now they finally can. They need to be grownups to the Republican children. It’s just that simple. A joint session of Congress is rare; the popularly elected legitimate Head of State was speaking, and a racist unreconstructed boor heckled his president. The politics of it is less important to me than preserving order and decorum for our most essential institution, because it’s all we have left in this country.
Fulcanelli
That was pretty sly Cole. Slipping in blowjob and toothless in the same sentence.
Bailiff, whack his pee pee.
joes527
@General Winfield Stuck: We can’t/won’t prosecute war crimes, but we are gonna nail the ass of the dude that spoke too loudly?
Yes, this is the way that the deck chairs on the titanic should be arranged.
Elie
JoyceH:
in epidemiology it is called “amplification”
We have increased the strength of the virus and made sure that it has spread more widely than it would have ever if it had remained isolated on the back bench in a second class, isolated backwater.
But naw! Anything for the news cycle and to keep those blog hits going….
(I recognize that I am part of the problem)
Cat Lady
@joes527:
It’s the broken window theory of crime. This is going to sound moonbatty, but when Obama’s first term is nearing its end and they’re still not prosecuting, then I will be at least as disgusted as you. I own land in the west and I’ll actually go Galt. But prosecuting war crimes is lengthy, complicated and sensitive and the DOJ is still loaded with Bushies. This resolution is easy and has a lot of symbolism, so why not do it. This isn’t a zero sum situation.
Elie
Cat Lady:
But if the “punishment” we give is ineffective, doesnt it basically undermine that rule of law as well?
If I punish them, by giving them what they want, and allow the rules to be used to their ends, doesnt it work to also diminish the institution of the Congress?
I really do see that you have a point that I won’t completely argue — after all, as you say, rules are rules.
But if they distort the enforcement, is that without consequence to us? Are there better things to do instead? We know the media will flail it and we will see it on tv, making this guy even more notorious? What is in it for us as we watch his ignorant, racist face on teevee yuking it up or at their little tea parties — a newly minted “hero” — not a disgraced moron but a person whose ignorant point of view now gets MORE play, not less. We want more of these folks getting visibility?
General Winfield Stuck
Keep it real dude.
JoyceH
JoyceH
Oh, shoot, messed up the tags – it was in reference to Elie saying:
“We have increased the strength of the virus and made sure that it has spread more widely than it would have ever if it had remained isolated on the back bench in a second class, isolated backwater.”
that I replied:
“Have you listened to Joe Wilson? Do you honestly think he’s a dynamic and persuasive spokesman? Do you think having Wilson in the spotlight is going to increase the popularity of Wilson’s point of view?
The GOP and the right, as is their habit, turned Wilson into a hero impulsively. With Palin, they at least waited until she proved she could read a speech off a teleprompter before swooning. But with Wilson, they dragged the guy down the altar and married him based on a two syllable yawp.
And now they’re stuck with him.”
Elie
Joyce:
They are not interested in projecting competence or anything like that. As we saw with Bush, they just want one of the tribe out there acting as an attention magnet so that no one gets to spend too much time talking about anything important. He serves that purpose quite well, doncha think?
Its like when you go to a friend’s house for dinner and she or he spends the entire time chasing their little kid around who keeps screaming and crying and grabbing all the attention..you have no time to talk — the only activity is around the spoiled, screaming child. The whole point of the evening becomes the screaming child. Tell me that isnt happening here.
Cat Lady
@Elie:
Rules were enforced. I don’t think enforcing rules is ever ineffective. Not enforcing rules is definitely ineffective if you’re ever going to try to change behavior. I believe even Joe Wilson has had some private regrets since his outburst, and now he’s an official jackass. Even he can’t be proud of that, but that’s how you have to treat children. That’s something.
HRA
1. Joe Wilson took an oath of office in which it should be fairly certain he pledged to abide by the rules of the House of Representatives.
2. His response to why he apologized to Emanuel was “I was told to apologize.” IOW he did not make the decision to apologize.
3. He knew his action would come to having a vote on the floor sooner or later. He could have stopped it by apologizing to the House. Boehner and other Republican representatives urged him to do it. He refused.
4. Whenever the Speaker of the House brings down the gavel in the House for order, they are in session.
It made me ill to have to listen to that representative from AZ on Hardball use the military service of Wilson and his sons as an excuse for Wilson’s outburst (for want of a better word) when it was the Commander-in-Chief he interrupted before the country and the world.
Mike in NC
Never heard of the clown before last week, but he worked at one time for Strom Thurmond, who remains a god in South Crackerstan. Plus the idiot was an O-6 in the SCNG (JAG Corps?) which shows how low the standards are in the National Guard.