Look what our new allies are up to now:
The end-all-regulation, my-health-insurance-company-is-just-fine-thanks crowd in the Tea Party movement have found an unlikely target for their next national effort: Corporate America.
The Tea Party Patriots group is planning a “National Day of Strike” for Jan. 20, one year to the day after President Obama’s inauguration. The goal of the strike, according to the website where it’s being planned, is to “financially cripple” the companies across America the group says are “backing the leftist agenda” and “funding socialism.”
How can you tell which companies are funding socialism? The answer, according to organizers: they advertise on CNN and/or MSNBC, and they donate money to Democratic candidates.
So they are going to cripple socialist businesses by striking for one day? That means they acknowledge their boss and employer is a socialist- why not quit? Striking for one day- don’t they call that a “sick day” or a “hangover” most places in the country? What happens when one of them gets fired? Will that be labeled socialist oppression by Big Hollywood?
Or do they actually mean they are going to boycott these companies? If that is the case, how the hell does a one day boycott work? Will anyone notice?
I’m sure glad some well-meaning progressives have decided to team up with these clowns. Maybe we can combine efforts- we can strike for a day, and during that day we can make incoherent attacks on Joe Lieberman’s wife.
*** Update ***
Via the comments:
Let’s not forget that she is actually out there doing real stuff. She raises a ton of money for progressive causes, and she is more effective than most bloggers at impacting the political dynamic. Anyone who puts themselves out front like that is going to make some mistakes, and she takes the heat like a warrior. She doesn’t whimper and whine—she comes back with a vengeance, witness the way she demolished Jed Lewison today:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/12…..iefreddie/
I’ve got a lot of respect for those who are in the trenches doing the real work. The blogosphere has more than it’s share of couch potatoes hiding behind their laptops while Jane is out there getting her hands dirty.
As for her alliance with Grover Norquist on the alleged misdeeds of Rahm Emmanuel, she will no doubt be happy to reveal that she thinks Norquist is a wacko on most issues— but if an unlikely combination of forces can actually achieve something, then I’m all for it.
The entrenched economic interests remain in control because they have succeeded in dividing the peasantry with hot button social issues like abortion, gun control, gay rights, and the environment. If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country. Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share. For chrissake, Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond worked together on the occasional piece of legislation. It’s called politics.
I can understand that. It is the methodology that is problematic.
General Winfield Stuck
LOOky at the green eyed monster the Plutocrats created now come home to et them whole. Merry Christmas and what goes around comes around greedy beatchs.
arguingwithsignposts
Dammit, JC. I’ll just leave her here. Note she is not pleased by the tone of the recent posts on this blog. She is going to be sending a sternly worded letter.
ETA: on topic, this cannot end well. these people are idiots, etc., etc.
CJ
I’m betting these are the same geniuses who came up with the “DONT BUY GAS ON X” email chains.
The Moar You Know
Someone needs to point out to the Teabagger Brigade that this sort of thing doesn’t end well for special interest groups; in particular, I’m thinking of the “Day Without A Mexican” effort here in Southern California a couple of years ago that did not end well for the interest groups involved.
I personally find it hilarious watching the teabaggers cycle through every failed protest stratagem of those they profess to despise, to wit, the left.
Warren Terra
Yup, the true socia!ist threat is big business. I’m sure Marx said something about the need to put the means of production in the hands of the stockholders. Still, it does explain Jonah’s book sales.
maryQ
So, um, if the lefties and teabaggers join forces to fight, um, Obama and um, corporate America, does that mean the rest of us are free to solve, you know, real problems and shit, and, like, live in an informed democracy?
Cuz I’ll take that.
CalD
That’s right, damnit. Let’s show those dirty commies that the workers control the means of production…
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
The teabaggers are trying to get lefties like Hamster to side with them so that hopefully they can get some basic training in protests and boycotts. The Teabaggers have realized that their protests look like Klan rallies and that’s not a very pretty picture for the rest of the country to see.
SteveinSC
They’ll soon be turning on one another: “Everyone’s
queersocialist but thee and me and sometimes I wonder about thee”arguingwithsignposts
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Because the giant puppet heads look so much better?
Midnight Marauder
Yes. SATSQ.
I know it’s the end of the year and all, Cole, but come on.
Edit: And goddamn you, John Cole. I quoted you using the dreaded S-word and it got me stuck in moderation. This is starting to get RI-GODDAMN-DICULOUS!
demkat620
I really don’t get this getting in bed with teabaggers.
I would think that would be the last thing you’d want to do but, that’s just me.
What’s next? Calling out an army of furries?
asiangrrlMN
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal): Well, considering that many on the far far left are purty white themselves…they may just blend in together.
@arguingwithsignposts: Moar Smudge!
calipygian
I don’t think Tea Bagger Titan Glen Beck is going to be very happy when the Tea Baggers boycott Newsmax and Goldline.
Kordo
The parent of a good friend is a dedicated TeaBagger, and this is about the level of “strategy” I’ve heard from him and his fellows over the last several months. They have vague fears/hates directed at a variety of DemoSocioFascist boogeymen, and very little idea of how to go about attacking any of them. All the Liberal/Democratic hand-wringing over the 2010 mid-terms is gonna look pretty funny a few years from now. These folks are not a political force. Someone should send a memo to Michael Steele. On second thought, don’t. It’s too much fun to watch.
Just Some Fuckhead
Oh great, more crazily insightful conflation. Yeah, we’re all working with the teabaggers. Yer a dumbass, John. A remarkably petty little dumbass.
calipygian
Hmmm…that’s pretty good. I think I’ll make a sign and go to one of these rallies.
It might become the “Get your government hands off my Medicare” of 2010…
Left Coast Tom
This sounds like the “don’t buy gas for a day, protest gas prices” silliness a couple years ago – I wonder if the same dim bulbs are responsible. If my fuel gauge is flirting with E then I’m sure not going to strand myself just to make a silly point, and if I plan my gas purchase to avoid The Day then…who cares, I’ve bought the same amount of gas over time anyway.
On the bright side, you should now be able to write about the “Jane Hamshers of the Left” in a way that actually includes Jane Hamsher.
kth
In a “right to work” (i.e., fire at will) state, you call in and tell your boss that you aren’t coming to work that day because he’s a big fat commie and he might tell you not to ever bother coming back.
You might have more job protection in a more liberal state if you decided to skip work over a matter of conscience, but it wouldn’t be very libertarian of you to insist on it.
Of course you and the three other Paultards at work could just call in sick that day, but how is the boss going to know that his hatred of free enterprise is the reason for your absence?
gbear
I’m staying ahead of the curve. I struck for two hours this afternoon. If anyone looks at my work output for today, they can say that I pretty much struck all day.
Then I went out and picketted at a bus stop. Apparently the bus driver was striking because the bus didn’t show up for 55 minutes.
We were all striking Tim Pawlenty’s trashing of MN though. We’re not as whacked as the teabaggers+fdl. We can see real damage when we see it.
I wonder how fdl’s next pledge beg is going to go? Wonder if someday they’re going to wake up to find they’re on wingnut welfare? TBogg, please run away.
Chad S
The Teabaggers should finish each of their communiques with: “The Aristocrats!”
asiangrrlMN
@gbear: I love you, man. Thanks for the laughs. Yeah, I stopped going over to TBogg’s place. Was getting to be too much for me.
Oh, and fuck Ratface Pawlenty.
NovShmozKaPop
That’s going to be a LOT of work. Have you ever read The Marching Morons?
arguingwithsignposts
@asiangrrlMN:
I’m thinking smudge looks like she’s going galt, if only because you keep snatching up all teh hot commenters. ;)
calipygian
And bring Spencer Ackerman with you.
gbear
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Even with her ‘help’, they’re still going to look like klan rallies.
valdivia
No no no, the communiques must end with “In Solidarity”. Come on guys!
scudbucket
@John Cole: I’m sure glad progressives have decided to team up with these clowns.
And to show where Jane’s brains are at, here is her reason for hooking up with Norquist and (by extension) the Teabaggers to promote social change:
Eeeeegaaaads.
Max
I had an interesting conversation with two California Republicans.
Their candidate of choice for 2012 – Sarah Palin
Candidate they won’t vote for – Mittens (because he’s mormon)
Between the GOP primary and the Jane Hamster’s of the Left trying to run Grover Norquist to primary Obama…
2012 is gonna be fun.
Tomlinson
I’m really liking the thinking here. They decide to stop working, go galt, drop out because of our new socialist society (no doubt lead by Bernie Sanders, the corporate tool, but I digress.)
They will therefore, ultimately be depending on said socialist society for support.
And in the meanwhile, they do not seem to realize that making their entire voting base, erm, poorer is not the golden path to political power, even in our newly socialist society, especially since Bernie Sanders is such a corporate tool.
Tomlinson
Oh dear. I think someone could do a 7 part, 70 minute long video critique of just that statement.
arguingwithsignposts
@Max:
If by “fun” you mean AsiangrrlMN’s rusty pitchfork, then yeah.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
Circus from Hell.
Clowns to the left and right of me.
Maybe the Mayan’s knew something we don’t?
gbear
@asiangrrlMN:
Love you too. How are you surviving the blizzard of the century? Screwed up morning rush hour but seems to have turned into a bit of a dud this afternoon. Still two days to go though…
valdivia
@scudbucket:
huh? what the hell is up with that? Do I need to get a special thinking cap to understand this?
MikeJ
Rahm and the Gnomes of Zurich, using the Mind Control Lasers and the American Autoduel Association, will destroy the Boy Sprouts.
The Grand Panjandrum
@asiangrrlMN: I read through the comments section over at TBogg’s place and I was disappointed to see a couple of old BJ regulars going off the deep end and wondering if they it would have been better to vote for Hillary. Sigh. So TBogg’s is another place I like but I don’t read the comments section anymore.
scudbucket
@valdivia: Here’s the link to the quote.
==-+
As has been pointed out this is the same thing as the gas boycotts.
The mighty snopes sez:
Of course, since Snopes is a fact checking website, it’s liberal by nature, so I doubt any wingnut would have read it.
The Grand Panjandrum
@General Winfield Stuck: Jesse Taylor had a great tweet a couple of months ago: Bachmann/Palin 2012, The Mayans were right. But quite frankly, with all the stupid out there this year, you just have to go hmmmmm sometimes.
Amanda Marcotte has a great take on the Biggest Breakup Evah.
Midnight Marauder
@General Winfield Stuck:
Of course they did, Stuck. Why do you think they’re not around to watch this clusterfuck unfold in real time?
General Winfield Stuck
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Before it’s all said and done, we may have to build a mote around BJ and stock it with hungry Piranha, or a herd of PUMA eating Unicorns.
Jay Schiavone
Cole, Perhaps you can get together with Quentin Tarantino synergize your resentment of Jane.
General Winfield Stuck
@Jay Schiavone:
It ain’t resentment of Jane, it’s Jane’s behavior
Corner Stone
@General Winfield Stuck: As long as Cole has you and your fearless toy dinosaur as his trusty First Lieutenants he can’t possibly go wrong.
valdivia
@scudbucket:
thanks, I think? I don’t know that I have the stomach to read the whole thing but it just makes no sense to me. Her point is that Rahm is so ever powerful that the democrats wont be able to stand his pressure only the mighty republicans? I guess we know where she stands eh?
Midnight Marauder
@valdivia:
That is pretty central to her point, I guess.
General Winfield Stuck
@Corner Stone:
We are called minions, and there are lot more of them than I.
And your obsession with this one is getting more than a little creepy.
mey
Eh? Which “progressives”?
MikeJ
@Jay Schiavone: I would be surprised if QT gave more than two seconds of thought to her in the past ten years. Before Reservoir Dogs? Absolutely. Before Pulp Fiction? Maybe. After either? I’d be shocked.
Speaking of QT et al, a Lawrence Bender produced flick comes on tv tonight. The funny thing is, the host of Wait Wait, don’t Tell Me, Peter whassisname, wrote a historical romance set during the Cuban revolution. Bender got it made as Dirty Dancing II, Havana Nights.
arguingwithsignposts
So, BJ and Sadly, No! are there any more out there? How many have been delinked. Oh, the huge manitee!
valdivia
@Midnight Marauder:
So in her mind the real fighters are republicans not democrats? Talk about adopting the frame of your enemies! I hate that BTW and think that is a bigger problem that a lot of people pay no attention to–talking about Obama in the way Republicans do. Not done man! Criticize but not with Republican talking points.
So if she likes the strategies and stylings of the Reps so much I guess she is in the right place. Hope the door hits her on the way out.
mcd410x
“All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it.”
I got nuthin.
(Totally stole that from TNC).
John Cole
I like Jane. She has always been very nice to me. I just want her to back up a notch. She’s aligning with teabaggers and Norquist, she’s calling for Rahm to be fired/resign and then investigate to see if he has done wrong, the attacks on Lieberman’s wife were fucking incoherent and pointless the way they were launched (and I too am sick of Lieberman and sick of the scam many Senators have with their wives serving on boards and buckraking).
And Just Some Fuckhead- I haven’t conflated anything- she specifically called for an alignment for teabaggers because they share the same anti-corporate sentiment. Here they are with their big plans to demonstrate anti-corporate sentiment. Seems like it is gonna be a real doozy.
Also, notice anything about the date they plan to hold the “strike?” Wonder if there is anything else going on that day that they are going to try to shit all over. Wonder what that could be?
But I’m petty for noticing.
ds
How did FireDogLake become a representative of “progressives” or “the left”?
Basic polling disproves this. The vast majority of self-described liberals approve of Obama.
Progressives in the House aren’t talking about “killing the bill.” Louise Slaughter walked back her comments, and she never even claimed she would vote against the bill.
$200 billion per year in insurance subsidies to low income individuals is the single biggest wealth transfer to the bottom that we’ve seen in American history. Yes, the insurance company leeches are going to skim 10% off that, but it’s still worth it.
What you have is a bunch of whiny jerks with no understanding of health care policy, the incredible political difficulties of reform, and the suffering inherent in our current system, who basically viewed reform not as an attempt to help the working poor and the uninsured, but as an attempt to crush the insurance companies.
This bill is “too big to fail” by now. But in the slight chance that it does, I guarantee that it will be the fault of some obnoxious “centrist,” not a liberal.
The Grand Panjandrum
@John Cole: Let us not forget these are the same teabaggers who want to keep the gummint out of Medicare. I guess boycotting corporations makes about as much sense, no?
Hamsher is still on our team. She’s just making the wrong call by teaming up with people Grover. This IS NOT the equivalent of Net Neutrality. In that case both the Left and Right wanted the same final outcome. For healthcare that is not the case.
Mnemosyne
So the message I’m getting here is that I should postpone the purchase of my Christmas present to myself (a 32GB iPod Touch, if you’re curious) to January 20th so I can counteract this stupid protest by buying something from one of those evil librul companies.
Nah, not worth it, especially since Amazon will probably have a good price on them starting Saturday.
Bubblegum Tate
@The Moar You Know:
Ditto. I’m just waiting for a drum circle to break out.
bago
They are going Galt for one day. Seriously? I await the economic apocalypse.
The Grand Panjandrum
@ds: I guess everyone on Welfare and/or Food Stamps spends their money at the local food coop and NOT Walmart.
Ian
@Kordo:
How would that solve anything?
Ana Gama
So….is Freedom Works and Faux going to participate in this adventure, too?
gbear
Is that the date of the state of the union address?
Midnight Marauder
@valdivia:
From my readings on the matter, it would seem that republicans/right-wing types are “real fighters” in this instance only because they are outside of the reach of The Mighty Rahmbo. That’s pretty much what it comes down to, if you’re looking at things through the same
crazyprism that Jane seems to be using:“Democrats/Progressives are afraid to say anything bad about Obama or the HCR bill because Rahm Emmanuel’s reach is so powerful and all-encompassing that he would destroy any democratic activism group who so much as thought about speaking a negative peep about the Obama Administration. So in order to combat this, we need to shine the light on Rahm’s corruption–the same corruption that was investigated three times (I believe) during the Bush era–and then, magically, they will all have to fear us.”
@John Cole:
But John, wasn’t that the Most Important Thing In The World in Jane’s mind for quite some time? I mean, she put Lieberman’s wife square in her crosshairs once he really started mucking things up in the Senate. But now that the bill is going to pass, Lieberman’s ugly mug is fading off of everyone’s television sets, and she’s not going to get her way…silence. I haven’t seen a single post or blurb about that whole “movement” in many a moon. It’s completely fallen off the radar now that Big Bad Rahm is public enemy #1. No one has been more successful at destroying Jane Hamsher’s credibility in recent times than Jane Hamsher.
John Cole
@gbear: We have a winner. But really, these guys are just motivated by anti-corporate interests. That is why they want to surround the capitol with strikers.
Anyone who goes along with or legitimizes these people from the left is brain-damaged. You know what happens in a two-party system when you throw one party out of office.
Hint- A “better” Democrat will not replace Obama.
But again, I’m just a hater and petty and an Obot and, of course, a corporate shill for saying this.
Just Some Fuckhead
@John Cole: John Cole:
I’ve had my fill of yer idiocy. This is my GBCW.
ds
Wal-Mart provides a socially desirable service.
The only role of insurance companies is to underwrite policies based on medical history and risk characteristics. One major plank of reform is to get them to stop doing this, because it prevents sick people from getting the care they need.
Buying off the insurance companies was a necessary bargain. Any “liberal” who thinks it’s more important to stick it to insurance companies than to save 45,000 lives a year is just insane.
General Winfield Stuck
@ds:
No they aren’t, some are posturing to get some things in the conference added, some are saying they are disappointed about not getting PO, and a few like Kucinich who like to be noticed will vote against such a bill without a PO.
But none of them are calling Obama a sellout, or withdrawing any support of him whatsoever, and certainly not taking up with the wingnuts. They know full well the senates role in these things, and will accept an historic HCR bill with the good stuff in it, and the good stuff left out. And plan for the next round of reform, and so on.
When dems on this blog and elsewhere get to this point of disappointment but loyalty to a dem presnit in tact, and acceptance of what is really to blame for that disappointment, I will quit calling them PUMA’s, but until then.
r€nato
@MikeJ:
come on over, let’s play Illuminati! I haven’t dusted mine off in years :(
Rock
Has anyone commented on how awesome it is that they are going to use collective labor action to combat socialism? Cause that is awesome.
Mnemosyne
@Tomlinson:
To be fair, these are the same people who think that tax cuts increase tax revenues. You know — morons.
Mnemosyne
@Bubblegum Tate:
When do they start building the giant puppets?
valdivia
I am watching Good Night and Good Luck on netflix instant. Great fucking movie.
Seebach
The #1 issue we need to be concerned about is how we’re going to get anything done with a 60 vote minimum. Obama and Kos better get on a similar page here.
Tomlinson
This makes me teh sad. I was thinking The Mighty Rahmbo was more Powerful than this, but if he only has Power over the hippies, his Power is indeed weak.
gbear
@John Cole:
Man, typing that must have felt like old times. It’s deja vu all over again. ;)
Tomlinson
@Rock:
This is deeply satisfying, isn’t it?
Mnemosyne
Speaking of TBogg, it’s a little weird to me that he put a link in his Christmas Eve post to Jane’s rant about Rahm Emmanuel (or, as he puts it, “the whole Rahm brouhahakerfufflepalooza”) and then closed the comments section for that post.
Is this like when prisoners of war would try to send messages by blinking in Morse code while reading the script their captors required?
Shell
Hmm. Sounds like someone has a hazy memory of seeing the movie, “Gandhi.” Especially the scenes where he calls for a national day of ‘prayer and fasting’ but of course amounts to a national strike. The Indians being the ones doing most of the real day to day work, the country comes to a halt, and the Brits have a bit of a freak-out.
jeffreyw
Cuing “Il Divo”.
CalD
Shouldn’t we all be out fighting the war on Christmas right now?
valdivia
@Tomlinson:
the problem as I see it, is that Hamsher sees Republicans as strong and the Dems as weak. She simply adopts the frame that Republicans can always fight it all while dems just get slapped again and again and are saps. I think it has little to do with Rahm but with an internalized belief of the all power of Republicans. Though Rahmbo seems to be taking the proportions of a comic-book villain in her mental universe.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: So you’re what, the bouncer here? The resident scold? Please, what the fuck is a PUMA, and why is a threat from you to call someone that supposed to keep them from calling Obama a lapdog to Wall Street?
Malron
I got knocked offline for 24 hours so I’m a little late to the game.
After all the frustration of dealing with manic-progressives for the past couple of weeks, this morning’s healthcare vote combined will the blitzkrieg on Hamsher at the GOS is like the two best Christmas presents this inadequate black man could ever hope for.
Also: the final passage only required 51 votes but got 60. Shweet.
gbear
@Rock:
LOL. great observation.
I can’t wait to see how it works out the first time they all try to go out for a beer together. That should be fun.
gizmo
I’m having a hard time figuring out what the hell is going on in this country. Obama is busy handing over the economy to the Corporate Sector, but meanwhile the Teabaggers are convinced that he is leading us down the dark path to Socialism. One can only hope that our TV news signals aren’t leaking out into the broader universe. If a technologically superior alien civilization gets wind of the shit that is going on down here, we are toast.
Tomlinson
OK, but wait a minute. I thought the dems were about to come for the republicans? I mean, that’s there’s all this wild ammo buying going on, right?
It is sort of funny. When the republicans freak out, they buy ammo and guns. When the dems freak out, they buy dried food and seeds and medical supplies and shit. Put the two together, you’ve actually got a good shot at surviving armageddon.
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
Party Unity My Ass – PUMA
And everyone is a bouncer here and everyone is a scold. I say what I want, you say what you want. That is how it works.
Mnemosyne
@Tomlinson:
No, the ammo buying is because President Blackity Blackiston is going to send his black army of black dudes to your door to take away your guns right in front of your wife.
This link is only tangenitally related, but touches on the same subject and is one of my new favorite Christmas stories: David Sedaris’ “Six to Eight Black Men.”
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: I guess, and some of them are funny, many of them smart, but you seem to be the only one stomping your feet and making a dumb-ass threat to call people some silly acronym.
valdivia
@Tomlinson:
because Obama is a Chicago-thug with his evil intimidating ways (quote provided this morning by one republican senator to this effect) and also at the same time a total wimp, who gets rolled by Nelson, Lieberman, etc and is controlled by the Elders of Rahm. And who is as we speak also trying to become a tyrannical dictator for life. I really don’t know how it all fits together–too much cognitive dissonance for moi–but the lingo of the Kill the Bill folks and the republicans about Obama is identical and just as incoherent and contradictory.
arguingwithsignposts
@rs:
Party Unity My Ass. We have something for that.
valdivia
@rs:
um, no. Our host himself called these people PUMA’s and I would probably assume they are too. Though lately we think most of the impetus comes from the NOKIAS (the only Kucinich can save us group)
rs
@arguingwithsignposts: Thank you.
arguingwithsignposts
@General Winfield Stuck: @rs:
We are all bouncers here. Especially smudge
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
The statement I made about stopping calling some here a PUMA was an answer to comments ongoing in other threads criticizing my using that acronym to describe their mindset.
And from a long list of perjoratives leveled by both sides of this dispute for the past couple of weeks. It was not meant as a threat of any kind, and I am sorry you took it that way.
Midnight Marauder
@valdivia:
If you immerse yourself in FDL Land, Rahm Emmanuel is like a modern-day, real life Dr. Manhattan.
Tomlinson
@valdivia:
Yes, and he’s also a mere community organizer, *wink*, and we all know how ineffective they are.
Truly a venn diagram would be useful.
The Grand Panjandrum
@CalD:
Ha! Thanks for the comic relief.
Martin
I protested the soshulist corporate agenda by setting my Jesus Pine on fire. 2 Barbies, a Wii Sports Resort, and a bucket of Legos were gloriously sacrificed for the cause.
Big Brother was watching, however, and sent the jackbooted commie thugs to put the protest out before it spread to the 2nd floor where I had arranged a cornucopia of liberal wares – Gap clothing, an iPod, and all of our indoor cookware but the heat and water was sufficient to melt and ruin most of it.
Now that I’ve made bail, we’ll be buying more liberal wares to burn on Jan 20. We’ll bring those corporate wealth-redistributers to their knees!
General Winfield Stuck
Now I wonder who inserted this in the definitions? I will say my use of it these days has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton or any overtones of misogyny , that is described as “dead enders” in the lexicon I thought.
Times change and definitions should also, I think.
John Cole
The problem is who they are mad at and how they are going about it. I’m as mad as hell at the bankers, and a bunch of you were telling me I was way too over the top in agreeing with the fact that Obama is too cozy with the bankstas. I disagree- he is too cozy with them, but so is everyone in DC. I’m fully in favor of knocking them down a peg.
But flailing about, pretending the tea party activists, funded by freedom works and americans for prosperity and koch foundation groups are motivated by anti-corporate sentiment and have the same goals as the left, calling for people to be fired before there is an investigation (and there actually was an investigation), going after Joe Lieberman’s wife, etc.
That doesn’t accomplish anything. It just makes people ignore you. Yes, they are paying attention NOW, but in a few weeks, it will just be “Oh those crazy progressives,” much the way we basically dismiss anything the teabaggers do or say.
I just don’t see what this approach does, and I don’t think progressives will have much success riding the right-wing populist tiger. Look what happened to Newt.
valdivia
@arguingwithsignposts:
smudge! what a scary cutie.
gizmo
Re: Jane Hamsher–
Let’s not forget that she is actually out there doing real stuff. She raises a ton of money for progressive causes, and she is more effective than most bloggers at impacting the political dynamic. Anyone who puts themselves out front like that is going to make some mistakes, and she takes the heat like a warrior. She doesn’t whimper and whine– she comes back with a vengeance, witness the way she demolished Jed Lewison today:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/24/so-you-want-to-defend-rahm-on-fanniefreddie/
I’ve got a lot of respect for those who are in the trenches doing the real work. The blogosphere has more than it’s share of couch potatoes hiding behind their laptops while Jane is out there getting her hands dirty.
As for her alliance with Grover Norquist on the alleged misdeeds of Rahm Emmanuel, she will no doubt be happy to reveal that she thinks Norquist is a wacko on most issues– but if an unlikely combination of forces can actually achieve something, then I’m all for it.
The entrenched economic interests remain in control because they have succeeded in dividing the peasantry with hot button social issues like abortion, gun control, gay rights, and the environment. If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country. Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share. For chrissake, Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond worked together on the occasional piece of legislation. It’s called politics.
valdivia
@Midnight Marauder:
please don’t make me! I take your word… and given what i see quoted she really seems to have invested him with crazy powers eh?
@Tomlinson:
I don’t think there is a dimension where you can actually map these folks on a diagram. ;-)
General Winfield Stuck
@gizmo: LOL
Grover Norquist — Anti- corporate working class hero.
UncleHuntski
I’ve been reading BJ almost daily for about a year and a half but have only commented around 3 times, so please bear with me. I went over to FDL to see for myself what was going on with the whole Rahm thing, and all I saw was a lot of liberal on liberal violence in the comments, disturbingly reminiscent of how you’d expect a moderate Republican to be treated at RedState. And I’m afraid Ms. Hamsher’s most loyal followers can’t see that they are mirroring behavior they themselves have castigated in the right wing this entire year.
At least a majority of the commenters in the ‘petition against Bernie Sanders’ post stood up for him, so it isn’t all spiraling down the drain yet.
It just seems that most people are too willing to take a side before the evidence is in (or even the wrong side after it’s in). Maybe it’s a cult of personality thing, or just pissing on the hydrant to mark/protect your perceived territory. Either way, this particular line of attack against the WH COS seems like a waste of resources to me.
Mnemosyne
@gizmo:
And Grover “drown the government in a bathtub” Norquist is going to lead us to this promised land?
It might be halfway plausible if it was Bob Barr since he broke with the Republicans and went pure libertarian a few years ago, but Grover “Jack Abramoff’s unindicted co-conspirator” Norquist is going to free us all from the clutches of corporate control?
Okay, I’ll say more once I stop laughing. I really hope you weren’t one of the people claiming we shouldn’t listen to Kevin Drum about the healthcare bill since he was wrong about Iraq because that would be hypocrisy of nuclear proportions.
Midnight Marauder
@gizmo:
We know what politics is. Teaming up with people who would wish you and everything you care about dead and eviscerated and who will never share anything resembling your “values” is just fundamentally moronic. That’s the point. There is no common interest to ever be found with the types in the teabagger set.
It’s delusional at best and a cynical ratfuck at worst.
eemom
@John Cole:
She won’t be nice to you any more if you come right out and say she’s wrong about something. Trust me on this.
Ex. A, Ezra Klein. Ex. B, Booman. Ex. C, All The Evil Obots at Kos. And on and on.
“So, John Cole, how do you defend what Rahm did at Fannie Mae?”
gocart mozart
If the proletariat owned the means of production like Marx promised us would happen by now, the teabaggers would be calling for a general strike against themselves.
rs
@John Cole: I’m not sure that all, most, or even any of the teabaggers have much of a sense of what their goal is. There’s most likely an underlying fear of a black president and brown people that binds them together. But I think there’s also a seething populist rage at bankers, at Wall Street, at what they sense but probably can’t define as growing wealth inequality and job insecurity, that maybe, just maybe, could be exploited and channeled positively the same way Fox and the Kochs are exploiting their hatred. You know that when some old person is bitching about the government keeping it’s hands off their Medicare, there’s not a lot of deep thinking present. I think that us (you know, the smart ones) consciously trying to find that place where we’re all bitching about the same thing might represent the best chance we have to reduce the influence of corporate Washington.
gocart mozart
@rs:
And the teabaggers will lay down with the liberals, the lion with the lamb, the KKK (also disillusioned working class whites) will form an alliance with the NAACP, cats living with dogs, and so on.
gizmo
Mnemosyne, Midnight Marauder –
Since y’all are so pure and principled, please outline for us just how you plan to get anything done if you’re unwilling to join the occasional alliance with others who you find politically unsavory. At present we’ve got a 20-seat majority in the Senate, a huge majority in the House, a center-left Democrat in the White House, and we still can’t get shit done. Our political system is plainly busted and dysfunctional.
If you can’t bear the thought of reaching across the aisle to get some important things accomplished, then exactly how are we going to proceed? I hope the weather is peachy up there in your ivory tower.
clone12
Right, so when Obama is working with Joe Lieberman to pass a bill, he’s “selling out”, but when Jane Hamsher is working with Grover Norquist, it’s “just politics”.
Count me out of this People’s Front of Liberal Purity Jihad.
Midnight Marauder
@eemom:
This made me laugh so, so very hard.
Dear Jane:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, you really got their attention, Jane. You are the
manwoman now, dawg! More from the Seminal (of Terrible):Yeah, Jane. That sure is the way to
get the public option backmake yourself politically irrelevant amongst your colleagues and peers.Take a guess as to who that one is from.
That is by far my favorite comment. Firebagger? Wow, I am LOLlerskating all over the place with that one. “The Last True Progressive Standing?” Is that a new reality show on MSNBC or something? Yikes! I swear, these firebaggers are a fucking never-ending goldmine.
rs
@gocart mozart: So I guess we should believe everyone sitting down at Fisher Body 75 years ago was a socially enlightened liberal. You want to believe in a fantasy, believe in one that has working class culture wars trumping the class war and meaningful change resulting.
Xboxershorts
Whether we approve or not, whether it makes you ill to even consider it, the “Teabaggers” really are the only group to approach in terms of allignment. Well, not really the teabaggers, per say. But those who made up Reagan’s southern strategy. the DixieCrats. Many of whom are teabagggers, but not all.
But really, think it through. Frank Zappa had it mostly correct in his infamous interview with John Lofton on CNN’s crossfire in ’86 I think. Every move made by Reagan was dragging us down the road towards a fascist theocracy.
Hell, they’ve been promised reform of Roe v Wade at the federal level for the past 30+ years and it’s never happened. Sure some have tried, but it never even came close.
But in reality, the corporate interests that invaded our government couldn’t give 2 shits if the theocrats occupied the POTUS. They don’t care because they call all the real shots.
it would be a theocracy in name only. But government is already fascist in reality.
And the progressive block of the democratic party will never have enough political power, on their own, to make a difference. That’s the reality.
Real political power comes from the people.
And th eonly way to increase the political power of the progressive “movement”, is to win over more people. And where ya gonna get em from?
You’ll ONLY draw these new recruits from a pool of disaffected voters. of which the teabaggers have MANY.
And truth and reality are the only real tools available. They have to be made aware of the fact that they’ve been screwed over and used and lied to so that the corporate whores could acquire power.
I hate Grover Norquist. but if he’s willing to work with us in this instance, well, that gives some degree of credibility to “the looney left” progressive movement in the eyes of those who look up to Grover.
And Rahm Emanual IS a worthy target. As are FAR TOO MANY in positions of power in this administration.
General Winfield Stuck
@clone12:
Are you really serious? Jeebus, we have entered something altogether weird. Lieberman is a sitting us senator that caucuses with the dems, and like, has a vote in the senate.
And Norquist is a money grubbing wingnut sewer trout who would cut the political throat any democrat if he could.
With a vote only on who pays for the next round of Hookers at a C street sin party.
Shark Jump.
calipygian
“Bipartisanship is just another word for date rape“.
– Grover Norquist.
Since Jane ain’t screamin’ “No!”, I guess this just means its a hate fuck on Grover’s part.
Seebach
@gizmo: Okay, this is just bullshit, and you know it. There’s a difference between working with Republicans and working with movement conservative activists with a history of baiting and trapping the left. If I need to spell this out to you, you’re pretty far gone and I’ve lost hope.
Midnight Marauder
@gizmo:
It’s not that there’s something inherently wrong with reaching out to people who are typically ideological opponents of yours. The problem is in who you reach out to on the other side. Grover Fucking Norquist is an unacceptable “teammate” no matter how you slice it. Fact.
And maybe the reason nothing can get anything done isn’t because we aren’t teaming up with teabaggers, but rather that our political institutions are intractably broken at this moment in time and there is a substantial deficit of public attention on why this is the case and what can be done to fix it. That’s why I think if Jane was actually serious about anything she’s been saying or doing relating to HCR, she would be focusing her efforts on something like filibuster reform or ensuring that the bill was improved once it hits conference. But she hasn’t been doing that, has she? If she’s not going after Lieberman’s wife, it’s Big Bad Rahm who needs to be stopped.
She’s a fucking joke, son. A joke.
Chad S
@gizmo: Teddy and Strom didn’t really have a choice in the matter, they were the ranking members of the judiciary committee for decades(centuries in Strom’s case). Hamshear can pick better conservative bedfellows than Norquist, especially when he literally won’t back anything else she wants to push unless it has “Fuck Obama” as a motive.
General Winfield Stuck
I thought that was fuckhead, but he quit us, I think.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: The fact that you believe the teabaggers are anti-corporate proves that you do not know any of them personally.
The Moar You Know
@gizmo: Every piece of legislation bought to the House and Senate this year has passed, and every one of them passed without a single Republican vote.
So I guess that makes you full of shit.
Say hi to Jane when you get your tongue out of her ass.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: Hey, you can be funny. Pretending that Lieberman isn’t a “money grubbing wingnut sewer trout” because he’s a senator when in fact it’s what makes him a senator.
Good one.
The Grand Panjandrum
@gizmo:
Read Amanda Marcotte’s analysis of this current brouhaha. It makes a lot sense.
The real problem is that we have activists who aren’t all that effective as organizers. Being an activist doesn’t make you an effective organizer. I’ll take the community organizer (and this is not a vague reference to Obama) over the activist any day. I would also recommend leaving reaching across the aisle to elected officials, and on the rare occasion to the grassroots when we all have the same end goal in mind. Grover is not our friend and does not want us to succeed at anything. This isn’t Net Neutrality. Grover and his people want Obama to fail and they want health care reform to fail. Forever.
Seebach
@Midnight Marauder: Right now, 3 things can be done to reform the parties.
1) stop the filibuster
2) eliminate the electoral college
3) change state laws on apportionment of representatives; it isn’t necessary that it be winner-take-all. Proportional representation is allowable if the state sets it up that way.
Also important is media reform. Please let me know which ones Jane is working for. Plz.
Max
@General Winfield Stuck: I can’t wait for one of the commenters over there to call Obama an “inadequate black male”
The Grand Panjandrum
@General Winfield Stuck:
I can’t quite you.
eemom
eew. just eew.
I love this fine blog, and I like a good fight, but honestly — the idea that there is anything even remotely defensible about what this woman is doing is just too much for me.
Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
Seebach
@rs: Aw, don’t be mad just because everything Hamsher has done has only served to entrench Lieberman. It’s not our fault.
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
Idiot
gocart mozart
@rs:
I would rather believe in the fantasy that working class self interest trumps culture war bullshit but experience has taught me that that is what it is, a fantasy. I encourage you to try, not in the counter-productive Hamsher way but go ahead, try to talk sense to some teabaggers. If you are successful, you are a better man than me. [Or woman if that is the case]
General Winfield Stuck
@The Grand Panjandrum:
If you meant ‘quiet” then nope.
The Republic of Stupidity
valdivia
an earnest question–given the vapidity and scandal focus of our Village, how likely do you think Hamsher’s little gambit costs the Dems and Obama a lot in terms of pressure by Reps and the media (and Jane) to make this into a whitewater?
The Grand Panjandrum
@General Winfield Stuck: I meant ‘quit’. I can’t quit you.
i haz no spelng.
So much for my attempt at humor.
gocart mozart
Clarification: Working class self interest can trump culture war bullshit among some people and I think more can see the light with effort but I don’t think that the “Obama is the Kenyan Hitler” crowd is among them.
Seebach
@valdivia: Me! That’ll really show that scum Lieberman.
Xboxershorts
@Seebach:
I live in bible belt potter county PA, population 16 thousand, of which approximately 15 thousand are dedicated teabaggers.
Your comment says you know nothing about me. Please, do NOT make these personal attacks. because then you sound like…”them”.
Where do you, seebach, suggest the progressive movement find these recruits from? Please, add to the discussion rather than practice attacking the messenger.
Mnemosyne
@gizmo:
Sure, as soon as you explain to me the brilliant political thinking behind joining up with Grover fucking Norquist on a smear campaign against Rahm Emmanuel on charges that have already been investigated three separate times by the Bush administration and found to be baseless.
Unless her brilliant plan is “Presidential Impeachment II: Electric Boogaloo,” I’m not really getting the strategy here.
demimondian
@gizmo: Um, gizmo? How do you respond to the fact that Hamsher’s *libelous* allegations against Emmanuel have already been investigated three times and found meritless? She didn’t destroy anyone; she lied.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Maybe from the people who don’t vote, rather than the people who sit up at night, worrying that somewhere in America a n—– is getting welfare money he doesn’t deserve. Because that’s why my in laws are going to the actual protests.
Midnight Marauder
@Xboxershorts:
There are, literally, millions upon millions of other people in this country that you could turn to before teabaggers. Literally, millions.
In other news, apparently President Obamarahm is planning on privatizing the USPS at some point in the near future. From the Seminal (of Terrible):
So is this an example of some of Jane’s sparkling new recruits, Xboxershorts? Or is this person just a fucking moron?
Xboxershorts
@demimondian:
I’ve read Jane’s rebuttal to the criticisms, and she’s fairly well documented her position. And well, the docs show the investigations that were undertaken were all shut down prematurely.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
General Winfield Stuck
@valdivia:
For myself, I don’t see what Hamsher is doing personally as doing much harm at all. The problem is deeper in the netroots activist mentality. It is new, and I suspect that is a big reason for not really knowing how to activate for a cause withing the system they hope to influence. As I commented the other day, the wrong way is to start out demands with ultimatums of do what we want or we are going all batshit on you and kick you out of government and forget who we are and join up with the wingnuts.
They are completely out of control and bouncing off the walls with threats, and that will get them no where. Government leaders of your own party largely want to help do the basic things in the dem platform, but are constrained by political reality. And will dismiss out of hand hysterical demands accompanied by instant lack of support, or even being targeted for removal next election.
UncleHuntski
@Seebach:
4) Campaign Finance Reform
I know, I know, about as likely as eliminating the Electoral College or getting SCOTUS to overturn the ‘corporate personhood’ rule, but…
gocart mozart
@Mnemosyne:
I think Obama should be investigated for his role in not prosecuting war crimes by the Bush Administration. Also, not firing enough Republican U.S. Attorneys, also.
General Winfield Stuck
@The Grand Panjandrum:
LOL. I don’t spill so good either.:)
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
Not teabaggers, per say, but the one’s Reagan rode to power….the DixieCrats. My original post even says so.
dan robinson
The tea-baggers are going to call a general strike? That is good news. We haven’t had a general strike since 1919 http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/strike/ in the socialist republic of Seattle.
Since the tea-baggers are anti-union, who are they going to get to support their general strike?
Xboxershorts
@UncleHuntski:
I feel the same way, this and media consolidation have done a lot of damage to our Republic.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: So, not the Teabaggers. Not the people Jane Hamsher wants to team up with. So… you’re disagreeing with Hamsher. Just like we do. So… there’s no fight. We agree. Awesome. Welcome to our side.
Midnight Marauder
@Xboxershorts:
So the DixieCrats are where the future is at now?! And for the record, this is what your original post actually says:
So how do we go about dividing the teabaggers from the DixieCrats in this oh-so worthwhile endeavor?
valdivia
@General Winfield Stuck:
yes I totally agree with this. Excellent insight and analysis. One thing I keep noticing is that people who were pretty active and leading voices against Bush have no idea of how not to be active in opposition, they only know activism * against* not activism for and from within.
It reminds me a bit of the democratization movements in my region of the world, which fought so hard against military dictatorships but when it came to governance, and fighting *for* your own side when in power it took them a good 10 years to figure it out. At least in South America there was awareness that they had to learn a new skill of how to get things done, it seems to me some of these people have NOT noticed that the way you fight for things and against things is very different.
Mnemosyne
@rs:
rs, have you read Nixonland yet? Rick Perlstein lays out practically minute-by-minute how Nixon took all of that class resentment you’re talking about and channeled it into the Republican Party.
Elites have been using race to turn the working class on each other for at least a century. You’re going to have to figure out how to get working class whites to identify more with working class black and Latinos than they do with upper-class whites. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but those guys in Flint weren’t exactly welcoming to the African-American workers who tried to join their union, which is why those African-American workers started their own separate union organizing in Detroit.
Race and class are tied together in the US. You can’t solve one without solving the other.
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
I don’t know, but alone, we lack real political power. I’m not so closed minded as to think that we don’t want these people along, at all.
Where do you suggest the progressive movement finds recruits?
rs
@Seebach: ?
The Moar You Know
@Xboxershorts: Attorney General Hamsher’s investigations show that the Bush administration shut down all three of the investigations into Rahm prematurely?
Thank God that we have an authoritative judicial source, like Jane Hamsher, on the case here, making sure that the rule of law is upheld.
Jesus, how does someone as stupid as you turn on a computer?
gocart mozart
@gocart mozart:
Personally, I would like Obama to be investigated for not kicking Lieberman in the nuts. If Madison had known Lieberman, he would have included it in the impeachable offenses clause of the Constitution. “High crimes, misdemeaners, and not kicking Joe Lieberman in the balls” is what it would have said.
Xboxershorts
@The Moar You Know:
Don’t get personal, Skippy…I’m damn happy to be here.
I do believe the clinton administration had some input on shutting down some of that too.
gocart mozart
@Mnemosyne:
I concur 100%.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Reagan Democrats fine. Teabaggers = NO! When I say, “Do you know any teabaggers” I mean, have you literally spoken with the people who have attended the protests. They are insane. Literally insane. Not just people who are fed up with the system or the bailouts. The actual nutjobs who idolize Palin and Glenn Beck.
@rs: Maybe friendly fire? Now I’m not even sure.
Bubblegum Tate
@Midnight Marauder:
Somebody alert Dan Savage! (I’m guessing teabagging + Tabasco = firebagging)
@calipygian:
Gross, but sadly accurate.
@Max:
Hahahahaha!
demimondian
@Xboxershorts: Bullshit. The truth is already clear — Emmanuel has been exonerated, and this is nothing more than an attempt to create yet another. This is the same tactic that the right wing used to front the Whitewater lies, and you’re happily playing along. “Oh, noes, but we need MORE investigation, because you haven’t found what we -wanted you to find- -told you to find- expected to find.”
Here’s the tell: you haven’t even mentioned any of the other directors of the era. Do you even know who they were, in fact?
Mnemosyne
@gocart mozart:
Oh, man, thanks for the laugh. Because impeaching Obama for Bush’s war crimes will totally solve global warming, the financial meltdown, our aging infrastructure, and the healthcare crisis. Why didn’t I see that before?
ETA: Oh, wait, I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic. My bad. I’m still waiting for G to get home so we can have our Christmas Eve pizza and wine.
Xboxershorts
@Seebach:
I know them Seebach, I work with them, have them as neighbors and am forced to interact with them all the time.
And yeah, it seems impossible, but it really isn’t.
General Winfield Stuck
deleted for misread. was snark by gocart.
gocart mozart
@Mnemosyne:
Please adjust your snarkometer.
demimondian
@dan robinson: I’m thinking that they’ll find the IWW a good place to start — independent, audacious, not beholden to the bosses.
*And* they’ve got great songs. I’m looking forward to a tea borgy full of people singing “I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night”.
Lisa K.
“Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share.”
So did Neville Chamberlain. Look where that got him. Same place it will get Jane and all her minions, when all is said and done-screwed right in the ass. And she will deserve it.
The Raven
Teabagger collective action? More of this and they will be leading us to the Revolution.
Clearly, god is greatest satirist.
Midnight Marauder
@Xboxershorts:
Again, there are, literally, millions upon millions of people in this country you would stand a better chance at trying to (re)engage in the political process and discuss the types of goals and initiatives you would find in a progressive agenda. I think it’s fine and dandy that you are not so closed minded as to think you don’t want those people along, but believe me, they are exactly that closed minded about you and your ilk.
There are plenty of average citizens in this country who are amenable to the kind of dialogue you are wanting to have, and who would not respond to your genuine inquiries by saying “I DON’T WANT THAT NIGRA IN THE WHITE HOUSE!”
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Alright, let’s play debate. You be the sane person, and I’ll be the right winger. Let’s go for the hard sell, instead of trying to make common ground with someone gettable.
“Can you believe this fucking uppity African coming in here and giving all our tax money away as welfare?”
Xboxershorts
@Lisa K.:
So did FDR, we all remember Stalin no?
Mnemosyne
@Xboxershorts:
Reagan didn’t ride the Dixiecrats to power. He rode working-class whites in the East and Midwest who’d been whipped up into a frenzy of racial resentment against “welfare queens.” See my above link at #156 to Nixonland.
Mnemosyne
@gocart mozart:
Once I get a glass of wine in me, my snarkometer will be a finely calibrated instrument. I just have to wait for the mister to get home from work.
Lisa K.
@Xboxershorts:
Yes, and then we spent the next 40 years desperately undoing that little piece of work.
Xboxershorts
@Seebach:
I actually had that conversation at my mechanic’s last week.
Was complaining about jobs and the economy and this elderly gentleman blurts out that it’s all the fault of them liberals in washington.
it took me about 2 minutes to show him how the small government folks like Norquist have, since Reagan, defunded so many federally mandated programs which has resulted in higher local taxes to maintain the same services. That this was crippling to a lot of states.
And that all that federal tax money was being spent on overseas military activity. I had him nodding his head at how truly stupid it was to invade Iraq. He wasn’t completely unreasonable. And he was slightly older than me (I’m 50).
Hell yeah, it ain’t easy, but after years of being told how evil Liberals and Democrats are, if that lie isn;t broken through the use of reasonable discourse, then this movement doesn’t stand a chance.
Malron
@rs:
Their goal is to fulfill whatever marching orders Dick Armey gives them when he hands them their checks as they board the buses.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Let me try and restate this yet again. Yes, FDR did work with Stalin. But right now, our options are to work with Churchill or Stalin. We are saying Churchill might be the easier one to convince on our side.
You, however, are saying Stalin is the better pick. It might be hard, but Stalin is the way to go. Just forget Churchill. Let’s totally get Stalin on board. Stalin and FDR will find common ground much more easily than FDR and Churchill.
And this is why we think you’re not listening.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: dipshit
Xboxershorts
@Lisa K.:
Most of that Red Scare turned out to be a lie, too. Do a little research on Rumsfeld and Cheney.
UncleHuntski
@Xboxershorts: If only they had listened to Patton.
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Yeah. I’ve had that conversation 150 times, too. Go back and talk to him a week later after he’s got his new Glenn Beck marching orders. You didn’t make a dent. He’ll just rationalize it away, and shift the focus on some new atrocity the Mexicans are committing.
AhabTRuler
Hey!
Xboxershorts
@Seebach:
No, not saying that. I’m saying I understand Hamsher’s move. Not saying I approve, but I do understand it.
I’m also saying, these DixieCrats are Americans too, and eventually we will need some of them in order to kick the fascists out.
demimondian
@Lisa K.: Actually, FDR was less taken by Stalin than the right would like you to believe. FDR didn’t trust him — the untrustworthy are ever untrusting, after all — but was playing what looked like a losing hand in Japan. Remember, the Manhattan Project was a wildly risky venture, which, by all rights, should have failed.
Oh, and the Manhattan Project? The Soviet Union wasn’t a participant in it. If it weren’t for Klaus Fuchs and his cell, in fact, the Russians would probably have mostly remained in the dark about how the things actually worked.
Lisa K.
@Xboxershorts:
I am not sure I get your point (Rumsfeld and Cheney are liars, yes?), but then, it is Christmas Eve, I have had too much to drink, and I am hitting the sack early in preparation for more merrymaking tomorrow.
Happy holidays all!
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: If you are talking Dixiecrats, then you DO NOT MEAN THE TEABAGGERS.
Dixiecrats X=X Teabaggers.
Words mean things.
Hamsher wants Teabaggers.
You want Dixiecrats.
This is a big fucking difference.
Xboxershorts
@Seebach:
We will need some of them teabaggers too, believe it or not.
Xboxershorts
Ah, I am just now finishing a 16 hour shift and it’s finally time to go home.
be well everyone….
The Republic of Stupidity
@Mnemosyne:
Awwww geez… be careful with t’ings like dat. You don’ wanna give any eaves
droppingreading Republicans ideas, do you?I can just see that little light bulb going on over somebody’s head…
gocart mozart
@Mnemosyne:
Obama should be investigated for his role in not calling for the resignation of Brownie before Katrina while he was a state senator. Also for not kicking Lieberman in the balls also. ;)
Tonal Crow
When will the teabaggers quit screaming about Going Galt and actually do it?
Elie
@General Winfield Stuck:
But that is this guys M.O.
I wouldnt bother to comment on anything he writes, frankly.. its just a matter of time before he is screeching and the doesnt really honestly take in anything you say anyway…
Just my opinion anyway
demimondian
@Xboxershorts: Ha.
Most of the modern teabaggers, in fact, would be happier in an authoritarian society, and would actively undermine any efforts to make things better. That’s the reason people told you about how futile your chat with your mechanic was; he’s not a bad person, but he is very unlikely to be convinced persistently by any argument you make. As an ally, he’s worse than useless.
gocart mozart
@Seebach:
The difference between Coke and Pepsi?
General Winfield Stuck
@Elie:
I generally ignore. But that doesn’t always work, so a few words are needed.
Midnight Marauder
@Tonal Crow:
Probably about the same time that the firebaggers quit screaming for Rahmbo’s head.
Your popcorn. It’s ready.
rs
@Mnemosyne: No I haven’t read Nixonland. I have read several of Kevin Phillip’s books, one of the guys responsible for formulating the Southern Strategy, I believe.
Without a doubt, some of the teabag movement is composed of irremediable racists. But I believe the majority are more scared than anything else. It’s also a different world than 1937. Whites and blacks intermingle in work, education, & sports to a greater extent than 75 years ago. White people who have no experience with blacks in their personal lives have still grown use to watching Oprah Winfrey or rooting for Lebron James. I think a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.
Seebach
@gocart mozart: I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a darkie got into the white house. All of a sudden, we are on a road to soc.
This is very different from so called Reagan democrats or Dixiecrats, who would ally with us on economic issues of those damn faggots would shut up and those sluts would stop killing babies and those Mexicans would go back to their damn country.
There is a difference. Many Dixiecrats don’t rise buses for three hours with racist signs to go protest about how Texas needs to secede. They just vote against their own self-interest.
Seebach
I’m in moderation for being too realistic in my description, so I’ll summarize it thus:
I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a darkie got into the white house. All of a sudden, we are on a road to soc.
This is very different than Reagan Democrats, though there is a gradient here.
Midnight Marauder
@rs:
I’m pretty sure this guy would disagree with you on that last point.
gocart mozart
Southern Teabaggers are Dixiecrats. Northern Teabaggers are Confederate Yankees.
@gocart mozart: kees.
CalD
@demimondian: Excellent points.
Wonder if Ken Starr is available. I’m sure Norquist has his number.
rs
@Midnight Marauder: I’m pretty sure him and I disagree about a lot of things.
General Winfield Stuck
Yep, when them tea baggers not be tea baggin, they be home catching some Oprah while painting their Obama witch doctor signs.
I hope this pro tea bag movement from the left dies an ugly death, sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, Where is my drool up?
Seebach
Man, I’m in moderation because I used the S word. Suck.
Seebach
I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a black man got into the white house. Now we’re on the road to ruin.
This is very different then just the usual Reagan Democrat.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: You’re a lot funnier when it’s unintentional, and you don’t write dialects too well. Is that supposed to be black or southern white?
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
No, it’s written in moran dialect so you could understand.
Seebach
@rs: BTW, I’m glad you and Hamsher finally figured out this crazy idea that we should make common cause with people on economic grounds. Nobody on the left ever thought of that idea before. Except fucking everybody.
gocart mozart
@Seebach:
Fair point Seebach, all three;) I lost a post twice this thread. Don’t know why. I blame WP, John Cole, Jane Hamsher and Joe Lieberman because why the fuck not, in exactly that order.
Jeff Fecke
The idea that turning to the Dixiecrats is desirable for Democrats is, in a word, bonkers. The Dixecrats are mostly dead now. They ain’t coming back. Those who are alive have bought the GOP line of God, Guns and Gays, for the most part. They aren’t Democrats any more, and they aren’t going to be Democrats again — any more than African Americans are “gettable” for the GOP, since once upon a time, most African Americans who were allowed to vote voted Republican.
The Southern Strategy shifted the foundation of our political parties, and left us with a Democratic Party that appealed strongly to non-white voters, and a Republican Party that was lily-white. This worked well for the GOP as long as whites had a commanding majority in the U.S. But they don’t anymore, and the majority becomes a minority sometime in the next couple generations.
Democrats don’t need to increase their share of white folks. We just need to keep it roughly where it is. If trends continue, Democrats will increase their majorities over time, unless the GOP starts calming down on immigration and racial resentment. And they may, eventually. But not until they’ve worked through their current angst.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: see, that’s what I mean. It’s spelled moron, dumbfuck. Don’t try too hard- you do irony well, as well.@Seebach: Yeah, they thought about it, and talked about it, and talked some more… kind of like this thread.
Seebach
@gocart mozart: Sorry for the duplicates. Essentially, take my mother in law. When Bush was in the whitehouse, everything he did was right. Everything. Everything he did was right. Her youtube and email accounts are basically along the lines of ilovebush00 or bushwife.
Now, as soon as Obama is in power, it’s all deficits and taxes and government control and Michelle Bachman and Glenn Beck. All of a sudden, both parties are just no good and we need to clean out Washington.
And if Palin is elected, everything will be good. Everything.
Seebach
@rs: Well, maybe Hamsher will have better luck at fomenting the unity of the working class in America than everyone from Eugene Debs to Ralph Nader. She’s got big shoes to fill. But I’m sure the teabaggers are the key. Man, if only Debs had had the teabaggers to work with, we’d have single payer!
Midnight Marauder
@rs:
Right. Of course you do. Tell me, is Bernie Sanders on that shitlist of yours, as well?
@rs:
Actually, in this case, “moran” is the correct spelling. It’s a reference to this picture and I don’t think it’s ever been more appropriate than in this case.
You must be new around
herethe Internet?CalD
In reading though some of the comments on this thread it has gradually dawned on me that there may be people here who have no idea what the word Dixiecrat means or (we can hope) that to use that word to refer to modern, conservative-leaning southern Democrats is both inaccurate and insulting. Southern blue dogs may be a lot of things but they are not segregationists.
Chad S
@demimondian: FDR wouldn’t even let Stalin see a copy of the B-29 when it was in production/development, the Ruskies had to steal it by letting US flight crews who needed an emergency landing site after bombing Japan land in Eastern USSR, giving them the VIP treatment(and then telling them that their plane couldn’t be fixed so they were destroying them), shipping them home through Iran and reverse engineering the bomber.
Chad S
@CalD: Zell Miller was the last dixiecrat: a southern conservative politician(usually with extremely conservative views on race) who stayed with the Democratic party out of tradition(and not policy).
Corner Stone
@Seebach:
No thank you. I’ve had one of those and you could not pay me enough to have another.
Ruemara
@gizmo:
I’m gonna pass on this argument. I don’t see the “demolishment” of Lewison in this post and she doesn’t really react to his own evidence of the lack of there there.
In addition, her fund raising for progressive causes, having checked her out at opensecrets, I’ve decided I’m not too happy with the disbursement of her fund raising, to put it bluntly.
There is nothing to be gained by teaming up with Norquist, nothing.
and all of y’all who think you’re just the bestest of über-progressives and we’re all Obots who don’t see how awe inspiring Jane Hamsher is, bite me. Jane being on teevee does no one good but her. Where’s her fucking solution? I’ve been writing letters since May.
Edit:
Seriously, Jane teaming up and compromising her self by working with Norquist is somehow great, but compromises that get us started on improved health insurance is just anti-puppy evil? WTF? Do you FDL Adventists truly not see how wacked out that thought process is? I’d rather compromise with, gah, Baucus than that foul bit of work Norquist.
Ailuridae
@The Moar You Know:
I’m sure someone else will get to this before me but, yeah, ARRA.
rs
@Seebach: Why is everyone here so fucking obsessed with Hamsher? This stuff transcends some pissing contest a bunch of you here seem to have with another blogger who most of America could give a fuck about. I don’t remember Hamsher having shit to do with Seattle in 1999, or Miami in 2005, but there were a lot of working class white people who looked a lot like the people at teabag rallies. They’re organizing a bunch of economically disgruntled people for us and you all are worried about Hamsher.
gocart mozart
@Seebach:
Eugene Debs was a coffee drinker and I have a reliable source that tells me he would have totally driven a Corvair if he were alive in the ’70’s.
Seebach
@rs: Because you and she both have the same idea. If you think the WTO protesters and the teabaggers are the same people, you are insane.
If politics comes up tomorrow, I will totally try and see if the teabaggers are totally into this WTO stuff. I’ll bring back the results.
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
I’ll let that just stand on its own.
The hilarious part to me is Jane “Public Option” Hamsher joining up with Grover “Drown In The Bathtub” Norquist and the He-Man Socialist Hater Teabaggers over taking down a Democratic administration. Yeah, that’ll show ’em and get us single-payer!
gocart mozart
Debbs would have liked the movie “Natural Born Killers” I think so Jane Hamsher has that I suppose.
Midnight Marauder
@rs:
Surely, you jest?
Ailuridae
@rs:
The tea bag rallies are not disaffected working class people without previous political affiliation. Those people have almost certainly cast their national ballots for Republicans going back 30 years at a 4:1 clip.
Seebach
LOLs. I am totally going to talk about the Mexican-haters about fair trade coffee. Those damn Mexicans in Guatemala n’ shit where the coffee comes from fucking greedy want’n their farms and not walmart.
Christ almighty. She told the manager of a Mexican restaurant to go back across the border. How fucking stupid are you.
rs
@Midnight Marauder: Yeah, I might buy that attempt to cover for your village idiot if it wasn’t for the fact he has done a pretty good job of acting the village idiot.
kay
@Jeff Fecke:
Obama has a 70% approval rating among Hispanic voters as of December 1st.
I see the “kill the bill” folk’s alliance with the tea baggers hitting a big ‘ol wall.
Look at some pictures of those rallies. Tell me who isn’t there. There’s no black people, sure, that’s a given, but who else?
“Liberals” missed that? How the hell do you miss that?
There better be a lot of teabaggers, is all I can say.
“Liberals” are going to be missing fully 2/3 of their activist base.
Chad S
@rs: The teabaggers aren’t economically disgruntled. They’re throwing a temper tantrum because a President won office on a platform they suddenly disagree with. Apparently massive federal spending and expanding Federal powers was right as the rain when Bush did it, but Obama boosts lipton sales for some reason.
Ailuridae
@Chad S:
This.
wilfred
It’s praxis. Would you appreciate the methodology if it was, say, a one year boycott, or an indefinite strike?
Give it time.
That’s the dawning of real political consciousness.
Midnight Marauder
@rs:
Aren’t you just adorable? These guys are certainly getting a kick out of you tonight.
+5
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
D’oh, forgot the moderation filter.
I’ll let that just stand on its own.
The hilarious part to me is Jane “Public Option” Hamsher joining up with Grover “Drown In The Bathtub” Norquist and the He-Man Soshulist Hater Teabaggers over taking down a Democratic administration. Yeah, that’ll show ‘em and get us single-payer!
gocart mozart
As I alluded to upthread, your point applies also to the KKK, the John Birch Society, and [Godwin Alert!] Hitler’s Brownshirts. Perhaps Rosa Luxemborg should have done more to recruit them.
Seebach
@gocart mozart: If Luxembourg wasn’t such a fucking sellout corporate whore she would have TRIED.
General Winfield Stuck
@rs:
duh!
CalD
@Chad S: I really have no idea whether Zell Miller was a Dixiecrat or not but Dixiecrat was a term for southern segregationists who left the Democratic party over its advocacy for civil rights legislation and formed the State’s Rights party — they had been Democrats up to that time for the simple reason that Lincoln was a Republican and they were still mad about the war. They ran Strom Thurmond as their presidential candidate in 1948 and actually carried 4 states. Following the 1948 election the party disbanded and most, like Thurmond, found their way into the Republican party.
eastriver
I completely agree with the commenter. Jane is out there doing something. While most other bloggers, all of whom shall remain nameless, sit around taking pictures of their fucking dog.
‘Nuff said.
Midnight Marauder
@CalD:
I think all reasonable people can agree that it was an EPIC FAIL on the part of whoever introduced the term Dixiecrats into this otherwise tepid discussion.
And Another Thing...
@rs: Mr recollection is that the PUMAs made of that acronym themselves and proudly referred to themselves as PUMAs. Please try to keep up, it makes for better snark.
Malron
Sooooo, the teabaggers intend to treat Obama’s first SOTU address as a national holiday? You lie!
Ailuridae
@CalD:
In fairness to Zell, (words I never thought I would type) describing him as a Dixiecrat is entirely unfair.
I know what Dan Quayle means when he says it’s best for children to have two parents. You bet it is! And it would be nice for them to have trust funds, too. We can’t all be born rich and handsome and lucky. And that’s why we have a Democratic Party. My family would still be isolated and destitute if we had not had F.D.R.’s Democratic brand of government. I made it because Franklin Delano Roosevelt energized this nation. I made it because Harry Truman fought for working families like mine. I made it because John Kennedy’s rising tide lifted even our tiny boat. I made it because Lyndon Johnson showed America that people who were born poor didn’t have to die poor. And I made it because a man with whom I served in the Georgia Senate, a man named Jimmy Carter, brought honesty and decency and integrity to public service
Those are the unapologetic words of a man who believes in the role of government in society. He turned loopy about 9/11 (I suspect) and growing more conservative with age.
Seebach
@eastriver: Yeah, at least she’s out there setting up Obama’s impeachment while Cole is, y’know… not destroying the Democrats. What an asshole he is.
Chad S
@CalD: Zell was the last Dixiecrat. Half of them switched parties in 1968(Strom got concessions from Nixon and led them out) after Civil Rights got passed by LBJ, just about all of the rest switched(or retired) in 94(which is why the Dems lost Congress in 94).
kay
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-:
Why let it stand on it’s own? Let’s talk about it.
I’m interested in this circa 1936 coalition we’re forming, of white working class and liberals.
There’s a whole bunch of people missing, people who are central to any liberal coalition since 1968 or thereabouts, but no matter. They’re not part of the “liberal activist base”, or anything.
Because it’s 1936.
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
Jane is certainly doing something. Completely betraying her own values to attention whore may not be the wisest course of action but its certainly “doing something”.
And then you have those who troll blogs with a smug sense of moral superiority because this time ‘Nach Hitler, uns’ really really really will work.
I’ll bet you already have a bag of Cheetos in hand.
Chad S
@Ailuridae: I’m sorry but that’s a load of crap from Zell. He was fine with LBJ’s Great society programs and Jimmy Carter, but couldn’t stand Clinton, the DLC and the New Democrats from 92 on? Does not compute.
Malron
@eastriver:
No one denies this. Fucking up royally and turning the progressive blogosphere against her definitely qualifies as “doing something.”
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
As an International Figure of Mystery, I am curious to know, what is this Village Idiot of which you speak?
gocart mozart
@Midnight Marauder:
Strom Thurmond who was buddy buddy with Grover Norquist and we come full circle.
Midnight Marauder
@eastriver:
Lord, what fools these
mortalsfirebaggers be!And you killed it with this one, by the way:
“I will take Horrendous Attempts At Subtlety for $600, Alex.”
Corner Stone
@wilfred:
It sounds like you’re saying this is how realignment happens.
rs
@General Winfield Stuck: misspell PUMA?
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
@rs: Someone is not aware of all internet traditions.
Corner Stone
@kay:
You know who else was around in 1936?
gocart mozart
@Midnight Marauder:
Tunch is a cat but still a bigger dog than you.
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
@Corner Stone: Burl Ives?
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
Where are the minutes of that meeting where it was “allegedly” discussed on methods to report the accounting in ways that effectively misrepresent real earnings?
Emmanual sat on the board for that meeting.
Freddie Mac is not a wholly private entity, the assertion that those records are privileged is ludicrous.
So much for transparency when the WH Chief of Staff hides his public record behind a cloud of secrecy.
Think long and hard about defending this guy, he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.
Corner Stone
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-: Well, actually I was looking for “Hitler” but shit…I guess Burl Ives is good enough.
Ailuridae
@Chad S:
Err, no. He kept Clinton viable in the South. Again, facts are inconvenient things. I have no idea if his evolution to cultural conservative shitbag was pure political calculus or not but there is no evidence the man was a Dixiecrat.
He was also an education funding zealot (on the good side) through his entire time as Governor of Georgia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship
The point of Dixiecrats was to use smaller government as a dog whistle to remind people to hate minorities. Thats a tough claim to make about someone who urged expanding the role of government in an area that is as hotbed as it gets in relation to government involvement (education).
It would be awesome if any regular commenter here just admitted they got something wrong when they are presented with evidence of that fact.
gocart mozart
@eastriver:
Tunch is a cat but still a bigger dog than you.
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
@Corner Stone: Have a holly jolly Christmas!
rs
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-: Gosh, I’ve stumbled into the place where internet traditions are born.
Cloistered little society you have here.
Corner Stone
@gocart mozart: I thought that was pointed at MM?
It was funnier that way, IMO.
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
I don’t know. Where are they?
All I know is that three separate investigations cleared Emmanuel’s name. I know I know blah blah mysteriously cut short blah blah. I’m sure Ken Starr Jr. will get right on it and find
something to impeach Obama withthe real truth.Corner Stone
@Xboxershorts: Midnight Marauder – you’ve gotta admit, he’s got you there.
Not sure why it’s addressed to you but he’s got you totally nailed on this one. You are fucking one and done!
gocart mozart
@Ailuridae:
What’s in a name?
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
@rs: If you don’t know the moran tradition, it ain’t me who’s cloistered. Have you considered consulting the Great Gizoogle?
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
I swear, the birth of these firebaggers is maybe the best thing that happened all year. And I mean that in all sincerity. Think about how grueling and exhausting this HCR fight was. And we’re all so, so close to the finish line and we’ve just been hashing it out against any and all comers. It’s the holidays and you just want a fucking break from all the battling and struggling (even the GOPers wanted a fucking break from being Obstructionist Assholes)…
And LO!, what should come along but a band of some of the most moranic (and easily mockable) human beings that respectable society has ever seen. They even gave themselves a catchy name (Firebaggers…UNITE!), a one-stop shop for your daily “These jokes write themselves” fix, and they have a leader who is blindly going where no person who wanted to remain relevant in the world of politics has gone before. To borrow a page from the great Benjamin Franklin:
Just a little something to thing about as you take another sip from your eggnog.
Ailuridae
@rs:
No dumbass,
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-moran.htm
Its an internet tradition and its half a decade old.
Corner Stone
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-: I would’ve also accepted “Rumsfeld”, Donald Rumsfeld.
Thanks for stopping by.
Xboxershorts
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-:
No, the FOIA was denied because they claimed the subject matter was of a private entity.
Not cut short. Stopped before it could even begin.
kay
@Corner Stone:
How do you call yourself the “liberal base” and completely disregard 2/3’s of the actual liberal base?
I am truly flabbergasted by that.
“Carry on! Wait. Where’d everybody go? “
Ailuridae
@gocart mozart:
A lot. And it fucking matters. Dixiecrat means something. As do terms like Blue Dog.
I think Zell Miller was a dirtbag. But if you think he was a Dixiecrat then you are suggesting that Bill Clinton got into bed with an known, unapologetic bigot to get elected President in 1992. That’s what Dixiecrats were – fucking bigots. And that’s not who Zell Miller was.
gocart mozart
@Xboxershorts:
Eleventh dimensional chess?
http://www.chicagochessleague.org/
Seebach
@Xboxershorts: Does it bother you in the least that you are using Republican framing?
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
ACORN!
Xboxershorts
@gocart mozart:
Is it false? Do you ever read Driftglass?
Midnight Marauder
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-:
This was amazing.
Go on…
Chad S
@Ailuridae: Let me take this point by point:
1-Keeping a politician viable is different than supporting their policies. Zell stopped supporting Democratic policies long before his tomfoolery in 2004(he did caucus with the Dems to be fair). He was a conservative Senator who consistent scored in the 70-96 range of the ACU rating(my link for 2003’s ratings which isn’t from Wiki: http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/040706.asp and for 2004, his final year in the Senate it was 96%: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16521). Its frankly absurd for him to claim that he supported Carter/LBJ’s policies, which were more liberal than the Dem policies from 1992-2004, but criticize(and vote against) the post 1992 dem policies.
2-Education funding is a bi-partisan issue, so this is irrelevant.
3-No, the point of the dixiecrats was the keep the status quo in the South across the board. Race was merely part of it. Strom Thurmond(and others) stayed out of anyone’s way as long as Southern(LBJ, Carter, Bubba) and GOP Presidents(Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Papa Bush) didn’t try to interfere with the South’s “state-based” policies and kept the pork coming.
You haven’t really submitted any facts that contradict what I’ve said. You want to hold up Education funding as proof of liberalism, but Dubya boosted D-Edu funding by nearly 25% with No Child Left Behind, so he must be a liberal also?
The Sheriff Is A Ni-
@Xboxershorts: Sure, let’s ask Driftglass what he thinks.
Corner Stone
@kay: I think you’re asking the wrong person.
I’m a white guy in TX who’s been taking private Spanish lessons for over two years because it’s good for personal and business reasons.
This was the only thing Karl Rove actually got right if you ask me. But by the time he and Bush tried to implement they almost got impeached. IMO, that was the true birth of the “teabag” movement.
kay
@Xboxershorts:
I think I can save you some time.
Once someone launches a public accusation/allegation they never, ever, in the history of the world, back down.
That’s why rational people don’t do it, without rock-solid information.
Because it’s impossible to back down without completely discrediting yourself.
Any investigation will be 1. incomplete, 2. compromised by corruption.
Once you try and convict someone with a smear letter, you’re all in.
You’re now at Stage One of this process. The investigations were “incomplete”.
I’ll make you a bet. The next allegation is that Holder is compromised.
That’s how it goes. Always.
Corner Stone
@kay:
But along the same vein – IMO the D’s have played very fucking fast and loose with the female demographic as well. I hope they do better moving forward.
Chad S
@Ailuridae: And Strom Thurmond was the first Senator to hire a black Chief of Staff, so he’s not a dixiecrat any more? Race is part of the Dixiecrat mantra, but its not the only part of it. The Dixiecrats were founded to oppose Truman’s racial policies, but they morphed into “southern preservation/heritage.” Yes, race was a part of it, but it wasn’t the only part of it. A lot of it is the perception of being told what to do by Yankees, regardless of the issue(or whether the South agrees with it or not).
As for Zell, I don’t have direct proof of him being a total bigot, but his “gorilla glue” comment regarding Obama doesn’t help him. Or apologizing publicly for trying to take the Stars and bars off the GA state flag.
Mary
John
I am troubled that you want to let Jane Hamsher off the hook. I realize that she has insinuated herself into the progressive structure in a big way, but how many mistakes are you muckety-mucks going to forgive? She ‘s done a lot of damage and she won’t even admit to making any mistakes!
Have you seen this interview she apparently did with Ben Smith that appeared on 12/2 where she foreshadowed this current teabagger craziness? Have you noted the part where she is in a legal dispute with Howie Klein over ActBlue??? http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30131.html
I’m a lawyer. This woman gets into way too much trouble and has too much conflict going way back. These are red flags that must not be ignored.
Playing with Grover Norquist to take the Administration down? Are you f*cking kidding me?
I have serious questions as to whether she has taken money to participate in this nonsense.
Midnight Marauder
Go on…
Ailuridae
@Chad S:
This is fucking idiotic. Nobody is suggesting Zell didn’t turn more conservative as a result of a number of factors. That doesn’t make him a fucking Dixiecrat. That word has a specific fucking meaning and it didn’t apply to Zell Miller.
Oh, and Education Funding isn’t a fucking bi-partisan issue. A huge portion of the Republican Party thinks the DoE is fucking unconstitutional.
This is mind-numbing. Becoming a more conservative Democrat doesn’t make you a Dixiecrat. That word, ‘Dixiecrat’ has a historical meaning that I suggest you look into. Most importantly Dixiecrats opposed the New Deal and Great Society while Zell was an unapologetic defender of both. So, yeah you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
kay
@Corner Stone:
I agree. The problem with economic populism post-1968 is it always ends the same way.
John called it a “tiger” in a post and he’s dead on. It’ll end ugly, and it won’t be “corporations” that get hurt.
And Another Thing...
@rs: Man, where have you been for the last year…you are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy behind. Stuck is referring to this
or google “get a brain moran”
gocart mozart
There are close to 100,000,000 potential voters who don’t vote because they think “All politicians suck”, “It doesn’t matter who you vote for”, or think it won’t effect their lives. Maybe they are a better recruitment pool then people who are mad that there’s a Democratic Nigger in the Whitehouse and blacks, immigrants and fags might enjoy the same benefits they need.
Midnight Marauder
For the record, I motion that FDL be moved to the “Blogs We Monitor And Mock As Needed” section of the blogroll. I think that’s more than appropriate give the hoocoodanode taking place over there on an hourly basis these days.
Corner Stone
@gocart mozart:
Blacks and furriners I’m ok with. But fags – they need to just keep it down for a while longer. When the time’s right I think the administration will be ready to hear their case.
kay
@Corner Stone:
I don’t agree with that. I think Democrats are vastly superior on “women’s issues” although I hate the idea of “women’s issues”, generally, because it’s too narrow, and I am a woman.
I am of the opinion that my issues are YOUR issues, whether you like it or not :)
Do you mean abortion? Is that where they’re falling down?
Chad S
@Ailuridae: The problem is that you want to think that the Dixiecrat movement ended when Strom bolted in 1968 because of Civil Rights. It didn’t. The Dixiecrats were still a part of the political landscape until 1994(and Zell never switched because he promised his father he never would). And just being a conservative Dem doesn’t make a politician a Dixiecrat(I never said that), being a southern conservative Democrat with pro-Southern views who stayed out of the GOP because of tradition makes one a Dixiecrat(a post-68 dixiecrat). Zell certainly qualifies as that.
And you’re the one who wanted to bring up Zell’s funding of education as proof that he’s not a dixiecrat(nevermind that this has nothing to do with the point since I could find dozens of examples of conservative politicians who boosted education funding), so don’t lash out at me with irrelevant points, thanks.
Xboxershorts
@The Sheriff Is A Ni-:
He’s not speaking out in support of Rham. Mmmkay?
He’s chastising the unholy alliance with Grover. Which is fair game.
Midnight Marauder
@Xboxershorts:
/head explosion
Ailuridae
@Chad S:
Seetfuckingjeebus.
Dixiecrat has a fucking meaning. It means having an opposition to the Great Society and New Deal social welfare/insurance programs as a dog whistle for helping minorities. Zell, until he lost his mind and went off the reservation starting in 1994 was an unapologetic fan of both the New Deal and Great Society. Ergo, he can’t fucking be a Dixiecrat.
Look up Shelby, Richard. This is mind-numbing.
Yes, Zell became nuttily conservative as he aged. No that doesn’t mean he was ever a Dixiecrat. Words mean things regardless of what you think.
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
Cool, bring a mop
What part of that statement fried your logic circuits?
Corner Stone
@kay: It’s too late for me to be accurate but in a very ill-defined way let me say this:
I don’t believe in “women’s issues” either. I believe in equal rights under the law. End of statement.
I’ve been mocked here before for this sentiment, supposedly by D’s and it troubles the hell out of me. And when any signifcant bill comes to fruition and it carries the “appearance” that one genders’ rights were negotiable to get final passage – I’m not good with that.
Abortion is a herring to me at this point, at least the shibboleth that is Roe v Wade et al.
A women’s issues ARE my issues, and all and everything that encompasses. But not because they relate specifically to the female but because it’s more of the “King’s Preference” category. This week me and my team sit nearest the King and have special treatment. Next week my enemies sit closer and I suffer for it.
A bad analogy but to further my late night point – if rights can be denied to one they can be denied to all.
Equal rights under the law, no one above the law.
amk
@gizmo’s rant on teh purity – ha, ha, ha. Take time out to pull your face from jane’s ass and look at the mirror.
@cole – why the chickening out ?
Ailuridae
@Midnight Marauder:
I don’t speak for anyone but it takes a long time before something deserves that. FDL has had its problems but has basically been off the rails crazy for one week. Keeping to site standards it can’t make the “Mock” list for three years. That’s the time the BJers took to realize that Matt Welch made no fucking sense.
Corner Stone
@kay:
And for what very little it is worth I will agree with this. But that isn’t saying much when their rights are negotiable to satisfy one prudes conscience.
Mary
Oh, and as far as Jane Hamsher being nice to you, get a grip.
Grover Norquist is brilliant and funny and throws great parties. He’s a real bon vivante.
Xboxershorts
@amk:
Chickening out of what? Criticizing Jane for her unholy alliance?
No, please do. It’s hard to justify.
But going after Rham? He’s the single greatest impediment to the progressive agenda in the WH today. He sets the agenda.
And he hides his public record behind dubious claims of privacy.
Rham is (and rightly so) fair game. As fair a game as KKKarl.
Midnight Marauder
@Xboxershorts:
It’s the fact that they’re attacking the fundamental reason why Dear Jane teamed up with Grover Fucking Norquist in the first place–which is to launch an
witch huntinvestigation into the nefarious dealings of the all-mighty Rahmbo. It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t come out and explicitly say “Rahm Emmanuel is as innocent and pure as the driven snow.” He’s saying that the entire enterprise Jane is currently engaging in is a wholly and ultimately destructive endeavor.But go ahead, keep defending her using Republican talking points. Single payer what now?
Arlene Machiavelli
—spits—
cleek
no, let’s no forget that she’s out there trying to guarantee that Grover Fucking Norquist and his asshole allies get even more support for their agenda. she’s turned herself and the entire loudmouth activist left into utter poison.
if the Hamsters are all into the kind of party discipline that they see on the GOP side, they should consider that, if the sides were reversed, what they’re doing now is exactly the kind of thing that would get them excommunicated from the GOP fold. would RedState team up with Code Pink on anything ?
you don’t get to complain about party discipline and the impurity of your own team WHILE TEAMING UP WITH THE MOTHERFUCKING ENEMY.
she’s a fucking spoiled brat idiot. do us all a favor, and never mention her again.
Midnight Marauder
@Ailuridae:
Well, I guess it’s gonna be a long, strange trip. But someone has to get the bandwagon started, amirite?
And Another Thing...
@rs: Man you have a learning disability. “all internet traditions” is a sadlyno term. It’s a hoot for you to call the commenters here “cloistered” cause you are the one who’s clueless. That you didn’t get the “moran” reference or the PUMA reference suggests that you’re pretty lost. I hope you dropped a trail of bread crumbs so you can find your way home where they maybe appreciate your “wit.”
Xboxershorts
@cleek:
Let us never forget that that the progressive block has readily criticized the GoP for the rigid enforcement to party policy that they enforce.
You are advocating the same thing, believe it or not.
Ailuridae
@Midnight Marauder:
You missed my point/jopke: Reason Magazine still hasn’t hit the mockable list. Old habits die hard.
Xboxershorts
@Ailuridae:
Actually, they have.
Greenwald explains
And Another Thing...
@rs: The proprietor of this blog, John, has thoughtfully provided a lexicon found on the upper right corner at the top page. I suggest that you use it and stop embarrassing yourself. Everybody misses a reference every now and then…you’ve got three strikes.
John
I hate to Godwin things, but the only major one-day boycott that I am aware of was a one day boycott of Jewish businesses that the Nazis tried to organize shortly after taking power. It was a disastrous failure.
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
It’s Been a long strange trip with lots of really great shows and lots of dubious transactions and more than my fair share of brushes with the crime-control establishment.
Still, I smile and hope.
Wishing you ALL a very merry Christmas, and the bestivus of Festivus, grab a pole and chastise your loved ones and then wrestle in the living room!
Midnight Marauder
@Ailuridae:
Yep. Now it makes sense. I guess all these firebagger madness has got me all out of whack. Well, that and the numerous Js, I suppose…
@Xboxershorts:
Are you even fucking reading anymore before you post? I mean, wow. The point just keeps traveling by you at light speed. Egads, man!
Mary
@Xboxershorts: Greenwald is now acting as Hamsher’s lawyer so we can ignore him too. And let’s not forget that he’s the co-founder of her PAC and they’re paying him too.
Corner Stone
@Ailuridae:
Hell. Between Reason and Sully that’s got to be at least 40% of DougJ/Cole’s material for threads.
Ailuridae
@Xboxershorts:
No, BJ’s mockable list. Glenn just got his libertard stuff together to finally take them down. Matt Welch is a third grade thinker and a lot of us have noted that for years here.
But Cole loves some of that vein of thought so is hesitant to put them on the Goldberg/NR axis.
kay
@Corner Stone:
Great point, clearly stated, and somewhat original, which is unusual with abortion.
I try to stay calm and methodical and specific on abortion, and partly that’s because I have thought it through, as a legal issue. Endlessly.
I’m a lawyer, and I wrestled long and hard with Roe in terms of the reasoning, and ended up at the same place as the Roe court.
I thought about it for years, not constantly, but with some specificity and rigor. It’s genuinely a sort of conundrum, unique, and it never goes away, as controversy.
I couldn’t square the rights circle, so ended up back at Roe, which should not surprise me, but actually did.
I was operating under this delusion that people just hadn’t tried hard enough to solve it.
But, I lose the bigger picture and what you describe is the bigger picture.
gocart mozart
Can we all agree to use the term “Neo-Dixiecrat” to describe Zell and the Teabaggers? This would solve a lot needless anger or if you prefer, “Fucking Assholes” should be the moniker given that it’s more inclusive.
Xboxershorts
@Midnight Marauder:
It’s possible things bypass my logic centers….sure.
be kind now, I’m approaching senior citizen status far too quickly for my comfort level. You try being a rational and responsible adult at 50 after 200 or 300 dead shows….
Sometimes a piece of conversation grabs you, and you jump in…and find out after the fact that your snark detector was off-line
Studly Pantload
Great thread, but I’m still stuck on the Firebaggers. Whether there’s Tobasco involved or itching powder, kerosene and a lighter, what-have-you, I think that richly deserves enshrinement on the Lexicon Wall of Fame!
cleek
no, i’m not advocating. i’m assuming that they want that kind of party discipline, because that’s the only way Obama or Reid can “twist arms” to bring on the leftiest of lefty bills. they are clamoring for more discipline (while doing exactly the opposite of what the discipline entails).
if they don’t want party discipline, then they must want more sausage-factory legislation; the kind we just saw with HCR. a bunch of people with varying interests get together and try to hammer out something that displeases everybody as little as possible.
they need to pick one or the other: a big tent, where ponies are designed by committee, or a GOP-style rigid structure, where people who cross party lines are committing date rape.
personally, i’m fine with the Democratic party being a loose coalition. i do wish it was a little bigger so everything wasn’t controlled by the “centrist” margin. but that’s a different issue. one the Hamsters apparently don’t seem to understand.
they want it all, and they want it now. and they’re willing to team up with the people who HATE them and what they want, in order to hurt those who try to give them 80% of what they want.
they are petulant, spoiled, idiot brats.
Ailuridae
@Corner Stone:
If they are mocking them (as they often are) then linking them is fine.
I haven’t been around long but it makes sense for Cole to approach things as he differentiates himself from standard libertarian arguments (and thats Reason and Sully)
1. This is a pretty well argued piece for drug decriminaliztion so you should read it.
2. Reason really misunderstands the problems with an unfettered free market. Read Kevin Drum’s piece on criticizing this piece by Reason Magazine.
Don’t know. Makes sense to me.
Xboxershorts
@cleek:
What we have…..is what we got right now.
I know it sucks.
Meh…..
gocart mozart
@And Another Thing…:
Actually, “I am aware of all internet traditions.” originated on the blog “Lawyers Guns and Money.” If you were aware of all internet traditions, you would surely know that wouldn’t you?
Chad S
@Ailuridae: Its mindnumbing because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Zell didn’t suddenly go off the reservation in 1994, he really didn’t change his views at all, his comments on LBJ–nevermind that plenty of dixiecrats voted for some of LBJ’s great society policies even after Strom left–Carter, FDR, JFK etc are him trying to make a claim that the Dems went hard to the left after Carter(which is totally absurd on the face of it) and thats why he didn’t vote with them on major issues. Zell is and was a Dixiecrat. He was Lester Maddox’s chief of staff, and Maddox was the Segregationist governor of Georgia one step above a Klan member racially speaking(Maddox was the governor of Georgia in 1968 who kept MLK jr’s body from lying in state in the Georgia State House). So, don’t try to claim that Zell was a good liberal until 1994 until he found Supply Side Jesus.
Midnight Marauder
Because I know you’re wondering, from the Seminal (of Terrible):
That seems out of place.
Ah yes, that is better.
Mmm, firebagger. Delicious.
Ailuridae
@Chad S:
Are you now arguing guilt by association? This is beyond the fucking pale. Everyone knows that Zell worked for Maddox. But we are talking about the policy that Zell ran under and governed under.
Again see Shelby, Richard.
Xboxershorts
@Chad S:
There is no supply side Jesus, and that’s the BIG undeniable lie. The one that no teabagger or dixiecrat can refute.
the ONLY thing that’s trickled down since Reagan’s revolution…..is debt load.
The documents that confirm this are too numerous to link to.
THAT is the big lie that the dixiecrats/teabaggers will never be able to refute.
Mary
Has Hamsher denounced Orrin Hatch for using her name on the floor of the Senate or does she now save all denunciations for Democrats and Bernie Sanders?
gocart mozart
@Chad S:
@gocart mozart:
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: Nutpicking is never attractive.
Would you hold Cole responsible for the absolutely stupid fucking ponderings of Stuck? Or the inanities of the most clueless woman anywhere Elie?
Arlene Machiavelli
We’d be just as well off attacking that poor woman who tweeted after her son died.
Corner Stone
And Midnight Marauder, BTW – I gotsta say your invocation of Anchorman wayyy up thread is fucking grand. It’s always a beautiful thing to work in a little Ron Burgundy action.
Xboxershorts
@gocart mozart:
I am the one that introduced the term DixieCrat into this conversation. I’m sorry I did.
Truth is, we NEED some of “THEM” regardless of their label, on “our” team, if real political power is to be acquired.
We really do.
How we gonna get em, without actually dirtying our fingers, is the $64,000 question.
Too many comments are focused on who or what….and not enough on the HOW
Corner Stone
@Ailuridae: They’re always mocking Reason, but 50/50 with Sully from approving to outright rage.
Anyway, wasn’t saying anything about whether they should, just marking it down that they *do*.
Xboxershorts
enjoy, open to the public:
http://www.facebook.com/Flatlanders?v=app_2392950137&ref=name#/video/video.php?v=181254050167
Xboxershorts
@Corner Stone:
Sometimes Reason earns a good mocking…oh well.
Sometimes reason gets it perfectly right.
Such is life.
bemused
@Chad S: You need to read this article written by Ed Kilgore (currently blogs at Democratic strategist and worked for Zell Miller in Georgia).
General Winfield Stuck
deleted due to christmas cheer.
Xboxershorts
@General Winfield Stuck:
Why? Aren’t we just getting started?
Damn, I’m working on kicking in the flashback/residuals with several glasses of cheap red wine, some homegrown and a very nice single malt
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
I see what you did there.
And I’m glad you caught the Anchorman reference. That’s one of my favorite little moments from that movie. Never gets old.
Edit: And how would we have ever gotten the gold that is “firebagger” without a little nutpicking here and there?
Xboxershorts
Ok, I repeat myself here
“And the progressive block of the democratic party will never have enough political power, on their own, to make a difference.”
That’s the reality.
And how ya gonna get em if you continue to exclude, mock and name call.
Civility does count.
Xboxershorts
An incredibly good Bertha
http://www.facebook.com/Flatlanders?v=app_2392950137#/video/video.php?v=129114485167
gocart mozart
@Corner Stone:
This makes sense because libertarians are 100% wrong 50% of the time.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: Sorry but I can’t hear you. I’m listening to some taiko drums at the moment.
Among my favorite lines is the “Let’s do this!” part right before the brawl.
Somebody recently said something like Talledega Nights was better than Anchorman and I almost jumped right through the fucking series of tubes to choke that stupid motherfucker right to death. To death I tells ya.
Corner Stone
@gocart mozart: Are you trying to bite into the Anchorman quotes?
Xboxershorts
@gocart mozart:
Heh heh heh heh heh
Snark…lol, my snark meter works!
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
Oh, man. The brawl scene. So much win in that scene. I still say my favorite moment from that scene is Ben Stiller’s cameo as the Spanish Anchor. He has so many great lines in about two minutes. Among them:
“Como estan…beetches?!”
“Tonight’s top story: The sewers run red with Burgundy’s blood. ”
And my personal favorite: “LA POLICIA!”
And Talladega Nights is pretty money, but I think I would have to give the slight edge to Anchorman. However, “Don’t you put that kind of evil on me!” is one of my go-to lines.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: You forgot, “AYAYAYAYAYAYAAY!!”
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
It’s a good thing Christmas is tomorrow, because now you have no excuse for not getting me a new keyboard.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder:
Man, I could go on all night. So damn good.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
Fitting, I think.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Fer Realz?
@Midnight Marauder: “So is this an example of some of Jane’s sparkling new recruits, Xboxershorts?”
Sounds like a condition someone gets from living in Mom’s basement and playing Xbox 24/7.
Xboxershorts
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
The Xbox is actually in the garage.
I dunno about …”new”….I’m fairly grizzled.
I’ve been helping to run pieces of the internet since 1986,
I love you all too…(ok, I’ve had a drink or two)
gocart mozart
@Corner Stone:
@Xboxershorts:
?!
Xboxershorts
@gocart mozart:
Merry Christmas!
We got to be tolerant
Corner Stone
@gocart mozart:
Sex Panther:
“They’ve done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.”
Seemed appropriate to call it out at the time. Guess it was unrelated.
Xboxershorts
PS..here’s an exceptional Franklin’s Tower:
http://www.facebook.com/Flatlanders?v=app_2392950137#/video/video.php?v=118836350167
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
It’s “per se”. If ya gonna uze teh beeeg werds ya mite ass wel uze the rite uns’.
One other tip sport; if you are going to be pissed at someone and call for their head then it might help if you get the name right. It’s Emanuel, not “Emmanual”.
I sure would hate to see you lynch the wrong guy, heat of the moment, blind rage and all that stuff ya know. Also. Too.
@rs: “It’s spelled moron, dumbfuck.”
You are not aware of all internet traditions.
Xboxershorts
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
errrg, effin grammer nazi’s…..
ok, I’m busted, cuff me dammit, I might like it
Corner Stone
@Xboxershorts:
Fuck civility! Fuck it right up its stupid ass!
Xboxershorts
@Corner Stone:
I feel your pain…
Here, a little sympathy:
http://www.facebook.com/Flatlanders?v=app_2392950137&sb=16#/video/video.php?v=118503690167
tomvox1
Hate to say it but I think Hamsher may actually be a Radical Right 5th Columnist/Tokyo Rose.
Corner Stone
@Xboxershorts: I’m an adult, I don’t have a Facebook login.
Corner Stone
@tomvox1: But in that case wouldn’t she launch her attack from the Coast….oh, now I’m getting you.
TBogg
@Mnemosyne:
I never closed the comments and I never have.
They still appear to be open.
Corner Stone
@TBogg: I am so confused.
Does this mean you are *not* a POW like I’ve been told?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
The answer is: Firebagger
What do you get when you put some shit in a paper bag and light it on fire?
Close enough.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
Apparently, we are not all TBogg now.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: Well, he’s either screaming for freakin help, or he’s got a point to make.
Or he’s screamin that he has a point to make.
I just wanna know.
Corner Stone
And more appropriately, I want a freakin big bag of dunkin donuts donut holes right now.
Hmmm…Pasadena, or Bellaire….which is the path to true enlightenment?
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
And somewhere in that hot mess rests the truth. By the way, I’m still laughing at your brilliant use of Ludacris’ “Act A Fool.” I have (drunkenly) screamed out that line so many times and I love it every single time. I’M TOO FAST FOR Y’ALL, MANG! Hilarious.
Corner Stone
And if there’s ever been a more “lives right beside you in the burbs” movie star than Rachel Weisz I’ve never seen one.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
Bellaire. Duh.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: And you see? This is where the rookie mistake comes in. Cause Bellaire has a police force that actually gives a shit, where Pasadena does not. Combine that with a hooker availability metric, then run that through the proprietary White Guy in a Bad Spot Theorem, and….Pasadena is the correct answer.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder: In any event it doesn’t matter. And I’ve lost interest in that too now.
Oh wells.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
You’re right. I can’t believe I forgot about that element. They’re really bad in West University as well. I remember they would sit with their lights off in people’s driveways, just waiting for some unlucky bastard to be going 31 in a 30 zone. Just a miserable thing from top to bottom, if you ask me.
arguingwithsignposts
@Midnight Marauder:
Wait, I demand to see a formula on this one.
Huntski
We are such tribes.
All the best, peops, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Survive and Succeed!
Tattoosydney
Hello peoples. Feliz Natal.
arguingwithsignposts
smudge has a ladybug on the ceiling, so she’s chasing. Can’t sleep with that.
Tattoosydney
@arguingwithsignposts:
Just wait till you start fetching them down for her. I have often found myself knocking down cockroaches for Pedro. He plays with them like a cat. I don’t let him chase the lizards though.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tattoosydney:
well, if only ms. hamsher had gotten the memo ;) grover f**king norquist!??
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone:
Cupcakes bitchez. Cupcakes was the correct answer.
Huntski
@arguingwithsignposts: snort. heh.
J Price Vincenz
It literally is pouring snow and rain and hail all over the sinners (and their corporatist proxies) who voted against HCR. This is God’s punishment.
RedKitten
Good day to all my fellow BJuicers, and a Merry Christmas! :)
I’m just sitting here relishing the momentary peace. SamKitten woke up at 6am for his breakfast, and is now back to sleep for a few hours. I just put a nice big fire on in the furnace, and for shits and giggles, plugged in the Christmas tree lights. So now, I wait for everybody else to get up. :)
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Good morning Krista and a Merry Christmas to you, your family and everyone else out there! I hope everyone gets what they want and if not that then what they deserve. ;)
I was hoping to take the wife for a motorcycle ride but rain is headed our way. Temps are in the low 50’s which is fine to ride in (with the proper gear). Up early working on the Mustang, getting ready to install the rear suspension and differential after a complete overhaul w/new leafs & poly bushings, powdercoating and repainting. Can’t wait to get it done but am having fun teaching our son how to rip stuff up and rebuild it. Last night we had to machine two aluminum support rings and he had a blast running the machinery. Kid is good with math, that’s for sure. :)
Hobbies will be the death of me but at least I will be smiling and our son can pick up where I leave off…lol
Mary
Happy Holidays all:
I have more questions about the Jane Hamsher scandal:
Glenn Greenwald poses as a full transparency, full disclosure kind of guy when he writes about civil liberties and takes pains to disclose his connections to the ACLU. Why doesn’t he do the same when he is defending Jane Hamsher? Why doesn’t he disclose that he cofounded the AccountabilityNowPAC with her and appears to have financial connections with her?
Markos Moulitsas and Arianna Huffington have been pounding the same issues as Jane Hamsher for a while now–that the Democrats are hopelessly corrupt and in the pockets of special interests. MIchelle Malkin wrote a book about this very same subject earlier this year and it has also become Poobah Bill Kristol’s pet issue for trying to stop health care reform. Do Markos and Arianna have financial connections to Jane as well?
Full disclosure: I have always been a Democrat. Yet, back in the 90’s, I was on the periphery of the elfin plotting to take President Clinton down. The glamor, intrigue and funding behind these efforts were a wonder to behold. The elves reaped whatever they wanted, be it fame, riches or being catapulted to the highest levels of the government after the Republicans took over. It makes me sick to think about how weak I was to get caught up in those schemes. Oh. And Grover Norquist was smack dab in the middle of it then, too.
Monado, FCD
I can’t find the original source, probably Flickr, but there was a cute counterprotest sign here: “This sign is the brownest thing on this block.”
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Funniest-Protest-Signs-of-2009/Brownest-Thing-On-This-Block.0yzl.htm
Arlene Machiavelli
Just had to get to 400. Merry Christmas.
Chad S
@Ailuridae: No, I’m saying that he can’t claim to be some Southern Liberal who suddenly changed in 1994 since he never was a southern liberal. You can’t work for Lester Maddox for years(much less be his COS) and be a social progressive. Zell, now, likes to claim that the Dems changed and left him, but they moved to the center during his supposed time of change not to the far left.
Dick Shelby was a Dixiecrat who changed parties in 1994, same with Billy Tauzin and about 20-40 others in Congress, but they stopped voting with the progressive Dems years before then. LIke I said several posts ago: Most of the Dixiecrats changed parties in the 60s when Strom bolted, but some still held out as Dixiecrats out of tradition until 1994. Zell was the final one who never switched because he promised his father he never would(which is probably based on racial politics of the south) and liked to claim that the Dems went far left on him in the 1990s(which is ridiculous). I really don’t know why you’re arguing except to just argue now since you clearly have no clue about what you’re talking about.
Joel
This anti-Rahm, anti-corporatist, siding with the teabaggers (you know, the ones that hold up signs comparing HCR to Auschwitz) sounds like a classic Jew hunt to me. You knoqmw, because there isn’t a long history of anti-semitism at the extremes of American politics.
Liberty60
It is true that the ordinary people who make up both sides of the aisle, are getting screwed by both Corporate America and the government; the classic is the collusion of the government and coporations in the military/ industrial sector, but it spreads in all phases- the marriage of private interests and government power.
What is interesting, is to see when these wings will unite- I found it fascinating that the SCOTUS decision in the Kelo eminent domain case very briefly had both the RedStaters and Kos folk united in opposition.
In my optimistic moods, I imagine the political movement that could be made when the Right stops being blindly worshipful of the military industrial complex, and sees Blackwater/ Armor/ GE for what they are, and the Dems stop being whores for corporate money and honestly starts representing the middle class.
The Sphynx
Fuck you John Cole and the Republican horse you rode in on
The Raven
Yves Smith, well-known and respected financial advisor and economics commentator, over at Naked Capitalism, links to and reposts the Hamsher/Norquist letter on Emanuel. I guess that makes it real. Let’s go sign the damn petition.
Carolyn
“This Is So Convoluted That Only Teabaggers Could Come Up With It”
Actually, the French have been doing this for years. My first experience with a general strike, a grève générale, was when I lived there in the mid 1970s. The purpose is not to halt business until the strikers receive their demands. That is the American concept of a strike used as a union labor tactic. This is more of a protest to warn public officials that a certain issue is important enough for a worker to use a personal holiday to make his voice heard.
The last public strike that I witnessed was in Marseille in the summer of 2008. The emergency workers from region converged on the city and circled the town hall. A few thousand were on foot with signs and banners. Others brought emergency vehicles with sirens blaring. All of this effort was for one hour. Yes, one hour only, lunchtime, 12 noon to one o’clock. Then they all drove back to their towns and cities. They clogged traffic and were very loud. They made their point.
I think that the confusion comes because of the American idea of a strike. American police have also done this for years. They all phone in sick as a protest and call it the “Blue Flu”.
It’s actually a good tactic but I understand the confusion. Perhaps it just needs a new name.