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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Better Late Than Never

Better Late Than Never

by John Cole|  March 4, 20108:41 pm| 77 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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I’ve listened to three symphonies today. The webs is awesome:

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Previous Post: « Stay Classy, CNN
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Reader Interactions

77Comments

  1. 1.

    SIA

    March 4, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    I can’t see nuttin but teh title

  2. 2.

    Estragon

    March 4, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Karajan is all sorts of awesome (for a possible Nazi sympathizer). His interpretations of Beethoven are simply unmatched, especially the 3rd, 6th, and 9th.

  3. 3.

    Mike E

    March 4, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    The time-standard for CDs, thanks to Japanese worship of the 9th. Of course, only a former Nazi like Herbert von can coax out all of its Beethoven-ness…

  4. 4.

    mr. whipple

    March 4, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    An die Freude!

  5. 5.

    matt

    March 4, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    oh to be lucky enough to be hearing these for the first time.

  6. 6.

    General Egali Tarian Stuck

    March 4, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Love the symphonies. Listened to a little of this one and will the rest later. One thing though, the Maestro fascinates, but I fail to see the relevance of a guy waving a chopstick stick while looking highly intense. It looks like a seizure of some sort and not very precise instructions, if that’s what it’s meant for. Oh well, the lament of a hillbilly.

    Anyways, for lovers of small and large furry critters, here is a couple of Charlie pic from our little hike in the desert this afternoon. And for those who don’t like furry critters, you can DIAF.

    Charlie 1

    Charlie 2

    photostream of other desert pics from today.

  7. 7.

    jeffreyw

    March 4, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Sammich

  8. 8.

    Keith G

    March 4, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    So, what I am gathering from last night and now, is that your are just now discovering (as in really thoughtfully listening to Beethoven and others?

    Cool. Welcome to this wonderful “world”. There is a lot of neat things to find and enjoy.

  9. 9.

    Alan

    March 4, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    “But suddenly I viddied that thinking was for the gloopy ones and that the oomny ones used, like, inspiration and what Bog sends. For now it was lovely music that came to my aid. There was a window open with a stereo on and I viddied right at once what to do.”

  10. 10.

    mr. whipple

    March 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Better Late Than Never

    Indeed it is. I’ve been getting back into classical after a long time away. Maybe I was just bored and wanted something new.

    The library is incredible for classical CD’s. I can take up to 2 dozen at a time, and keep renewing them for months.

  11. 11.

    Svensker

    March 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Do you read Scott Horton? He always has wonderful music, and lots of things/people that you might not know.

    A Tiny Revolution also occasionally has fantastic music, plus very knowledge music theory which is really cool.

    Both are, of course, great blogs sans music, too.

  12. 12.

    James K Polk, Esq.

    March 4, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Library of Alexandria got nothing on us :)

  13. 13.

    Ming

    March 4, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    A Tiny Revolution sounds great, Svensker — thanks —

  14. 14.

    Tracy

    March 4, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    @Estragon:

    I’ll take Solti’s first CSO cycle, myself. His Ninth is transcendent.

  15. 15.

    mellowjohn

    March 4, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    my father always said the odd-numbered symphonies were better than the even-numbered ones.
    and – as someone once said – austrians were the first spinmeisters: they’ve managed to convince the world that beethoven was austrian and hitler was german.

  16. 16.

    Jeff

    March 4, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    If we are going to the vaults to find the legendary renditions of Beethoven Symphonies– then before anyone says that von Karajan’s performances are definitive– then they have to listen to Furtwängler’s performance’s and then see if they have the same opinion

  17. 17.

    Toast

    March 4, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    I’ve had this symphony on CD forever, and while Karajan does Beethoven like no one else… it still disappoints.

    No fault of Karajan’s. The fault is with Ludwig Van for making the orgasmic finale a chorale. So many minutes of build up, build up, build up, and then you’re ready — you’re READY for the big Ode to Joy bust out — and some irritating dude starts singing.

    I’d pay $50 for a CD of the ninth where the chorale was replaced with a bursting instrumental of OtJ. No questions asked.

  18. 18.

    Citizen Alan

    March 4, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Being a confirmed Socialist, I’ll go with this instead.

  19. 19.

    two_kittehs

    March 4, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Where does Sullivan find his understudies, to blog for him? Is it just me or does anyone else find Alex Massie kinda annoying and pretentious, he is like the Hyacinth Bucket of bloggers.

  20. 20.

    maody

    March 4, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Wrong composer, but got to tell ya, I heart me some Shostakovich after being invited last night to see/hear the London Philharmonic Orchestra in Chapel Hill, NC.

    Symphony No. 4 in C minor, Op. 43 – YOWZA

  21. 21.

    Scott de B.

    March 4, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Beethoven is my favorite composer, by far.

    The fault is with Ludwig Van for making the orgasmic finale a chorale. So many minutes of build up, build up, build up, and then you’re ready—you’re READY for the big Ode to Joy bust out—and some irritating dude starts singing.

    Huh? The human voice is the most beautiful instrument there is. The choral finale is what elevates the 9th to the Mount Rushmore of Classical music.

  22. 22.

    Corner Stone

    March 4, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    @Ming:

    A Tiny Revolution sounds great, Svensker—thanks—

    You should be warned – ATR is not very high on the Obama Administration. Don’t know your persuasion but they don’t take prisoners on the issues they care about.

    WTS – the music theory (I guess, I don’t have a better way to define it) is un freakin believably detailed and good, IMO.
    When they put it down it is righteous.

  23. 23.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    @Estragon:

    (for a possible Nazi sympathizer)

    Possible sympathizer??? Karajan was a Nazi. He joined the party in 1933. To me that says nothing about his musical abilities, but a lot about him as a human being (no matter what his motivations were for joining the party).

    His interpretations of Beethoven are simply unmatched

    First, I’m not trying to pick a fight. Preferences in things like composers and conductors are ultimately personal, so don’t waste time or energy responding like this is a personal attack on your mother.

    Many (possibly most) serious classical music critics today seem to have a greatly diminished opinion of Karajan. He is still the consensus choice on a very few pieces of music (by any composer) and probably no Beethoven symphony. Some critics out-and-out hate him, others just find the work of Wand, Boehm, Szell, Kleiber, and others to be superior to that of Karajan. It seems to me they’re right.

    I have a number of Karajan recordings, including Beethoven’s complete symphonies (1963 edition) and, in general, I find the set to be quite good, with the exception of 6, which is easily the poorest version I own.

    However, in every other symphony I own a version that I think is significantly better than Karajan’s.

    Tastes vary, and I wouldn’t tell anyone to avoid Karajan’s 1963 complete symphony cycle, especially because it is usually available for a very agreeable price. Still, if I were buying a new complete cycle today, I definitely wouldn’t opt for HvK.

  24. 24.

    Mark

    March 4, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    Beethoven’s words when the music stops and the voice takes over:

    Oh friends, not these tones!
    Rather, let us raise our voices in more pleasing
    And more joyful sounds!
    Joy! Joy!

    Stone deaf, sick, pissed off at the world and he could still deliver right to the very end. Nothing compares to LVB–thanks for the post John.

  25. 25.

    mr. whipple

    March 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    John: If you like FZ, you might dig this guy.

  26. 26.

    Svensker

    March 4, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    You should be warned – ATR is not very high on the Obama Administration. Don’t know your persuasion but they don’t take prisoners on the issues they care about.

    They are definitely to the left of pretty much everyone. Very pro-palestinian, anti-imperialist, etc. Both Jonathan and Bernard are very smart guys, and I find them to be a real breath of fresh air in a world where “Dept. of Jihad” is on the TV. Bernard’s the music maven.

  27. 27.

    D-Chance.

    March 4, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    You have got to be kidding me.

  28. 28.

    Bruce (formerly Steve S.)

    March 4, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    I keep trying to think of something clever to say about Lovely Ludwig Van’s glorious Ninth, but I can’t. Simply the best piece of music ever in the Western tradition.

  29. 29.

    General Egali Tarian Stuck

    March 4, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    You should be warned – ATR is not very high on the Obama Administration. Don’t know your persuasion but they don’t take prisoners on the issues they care about.

    Well, that’s how about 90% of the left side blogs are. Not exactly a rarity.

    Balloon Juice is one of the few lonely Obot posts this side of The Great Prog Rift. And I suspect it will fall sooner or later.

  30. 30.

    Mike E

    March 4, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Catching a live performance is a must–I saw Mehta conduct Rite Of Spring at the Mann in Fairmount Park in Philly. With a thunderstorm looming in the distance, this remains one of the best rock concerts I ever heard.

  31. 31.

    burnspbesq

    March 4, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    @Estragon:

    I used to think that, but I no longer do. I like some more recent recordings, especially of the early symphonies, with scaled-back orchestras that are closer to what Beethoven would have had in mind when he was writing.

  32. 32.

    mr. whipple

    March 4, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    @Mike E:

    I heard the 9th by the Cleveland Orch on the lawn at Blossom Music Center ~1983 or so with a very cute date. Joy, indeed.

  33. 33.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    March 4, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    If we are going to go full on for classical I would definitely say Beethoven’s 9th, (the full version), Delibe “The flower duet” (it makes me cry yet today), Rachmaninov’s “Rhasphody on a theme of Paginnini” (to die for, to absolutely die for)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=9ZBU97emdig&v=z9Z-HCq5EeU

  34. 34.

    burnspbesq

    March 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    There is a must-have DVD of Gustavo Dudamel’s first concert as music director of the LA Phil – which, with all due respect to those of you in New York and Chicago, is the current Number One Badass US Orchestra – playing the world premier of a new work by John Adams and Mahler’s First Symphony. To die for.

  35. 35.

    madmommy

    March 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    That is a beautiful piece of music. Sadly, my classical education doesn’t extend much beyond those pieces used in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

    @burnspbesq:
    Thought you’d like to know, Betsy’s niece Cassie got a full ride scholarship to Princeton!

  36. 36.

    burnspbesq

    March 4, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    @madmommy:

    No fuckin way! That is so awesome! The next Sonia sotomayor, that kid is.

  37. 37.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    March 4, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Oops forgort part two…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5bP1CdfM-8&NR=1

  38. 38.

    Estragon

    March 4, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    @Tracy: @No Joy in Mudville: @burnspbesq: All points well taken. I’ll need to revisit some other conductors’ interpretations of Beethoven – I’ve only listened to a very limited number of renditions, and I found HvK the best.

    Also, good point on using the word ‘alleged’. There’s a reason Yitzhak Perlman refused to play for him…

  39. 39.

    madmommy

    March 4, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Yeah, it’s pretty cool, eh? She restores my faith in the future.

  40. 40.

    Estragon

    March 4, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    @Mark: I’ve long maintained that the only argument you need to make to prove the existence of miracles is to play Beethoven’s Ninth.

  41. 41.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    March 4, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Sod it there is a part three

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MuPqYtV_k&NR=1

  42. 42.

    gogol's wife

    March 4, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    @Estragon:

    I’m assuming when No Joy in Mudville says “Kleiber” he/she means Erich Kleiber. It’s hard to listen to Karajan after Kleiber’s Beethoven (although Karajan was my intro and I was really hooked). The older I get the more Beethoven speaks to me.

  43. 43.

    skippy

    March 4, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    you cannot do better than von karajan and the berliner philharmonic and beethoven.

    here’s herb & the gang doing the second movement to ludwig’s seventh…a piece that starts out morose and macabre and winds up majestic and inspiring.

    but just fer shits & giggles, try leonard bernstein’s interpretation of the ninth (last movement, the notable “ode to joy”), recorded upon the occasion of the fall of the berlin wall, w/…”an orchestra and chorus formed of musicians from both east and west germany (bavarian radio symphony orchestra, staatskapelle dresden), as well as the united states (new york philharmonic), great britain (london symphony), france (orchestre de paris) and the soviet union (orchestra of the kirov theater)” and “june anderson, soprano; sarah walker, mezzo-soprano; klaus könig, tenor;and jan-hendrik rootering, bass.”

    not too shabby.

  44. 44.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    the LA Phil – which, with all due respect to those of you in New York and Chicago, is the current Number One Badass US Orchestra

    Since Dudamel just took over the orchestra, Esa Pekka Salonen has to be given a lot of the credit for the orchestra’s current quality, which is very high.

    The best? According to a recent large poll of so-called classical music experts Chicago is the best US orchestra, followed by Cleveland, and then LA.

    When an orchestra is that good, who cares — sit back and enjoy.

  45. 45.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    I’m assuming when No Joy in Mudville says “Kleiber” he/she means Erich Kleiber.

    Not Erich, but Carlos, his son, who died in 2004. His recording of the 5th and 7th is widely regarded as the best in both symphonies, although, as always, tastes vary. Tastes aside, by consensus, this is one recording that is a consensus great recording. (Though it’s always possible to find someone to disagree.)

    I have multiples of all of Beethoven’s symphonies and the Kleiber 5th rekindled my interest in that symphony at a time where I had heard it so much I was in danger of losing interest.

    Szell also has a great performance of the 5th coupled with Sibelius’ 2nd Symphony. If someone were looking for Beethoven symphonies, I’d say go with the Kleiber for sure. But if you’re not looking for another 7th and want a very fine Sibelius, then “settling” for Szell’s 5th won’t be painful at all.

  46. 46.

    Triumph

    March 4, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Personally, I prefer the Sir Georg Solti and Chicago Symphony Orchestra interpretations of Beethoven’s symphonies to Karajan. Also second whoever said that if you have a chance to attend a live performance of the 9th you absolutely have to, even if like me it’s just a performance by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra.

  47. 47.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    @Estragon:

    A contemporary conductor who has produced superb Beethoven symphonies is Osmo Vanska, a Finnish conductor widely recognized for his Sibelius recordings. The complete cycle is available for only $46. (BIS sonic quality is often as good as it gets.)

    For the Old Timers (conductors), look to Gunter Wand who did some splendid recordings when he was in his 90s! I don’t believe it, only $40.

  48. 48.

    DougW

    March 4, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    @Triumph
    Hey ASO isn’t so bad. The best choral town in the hemisphere. They’ve got some really great recordings too.

  49. 49.

    EnfantTerrible

    March 4, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    If you really want to get to know Beethoven, I mean really get to know him, you have to listen to his string quartets. The 10th Quartet in E-flat (“Harp”) is a good introduction. The late quartets are among the most sublime music ever written.

  50. 50.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    @Triumph:

    Don’t knock Atlanta. I’ve never heard them live, but they’ve done some fine recording.

    There are lots of orchestras in this country that are well worth hearing. Atlanta, may not be Cleveland, but most of us probably couldn’t tell the difference.

    In addition to all the usual suspects (Chicago, Cleveland, LA, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston), San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Dallas, and Seattle are all fine. (That’s not an exhaustive list or even close to one — only ones I’m familiar with.)

    According to the poll I cited earlier, the US has seven (7!) of the world’s twenty best orchestras.

    The level of musicianship today is amazing.

  51. 51.

    No Joy in Mudville

    March 4, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I’d encourage everyone to take in a live classical concert with a good professional orchestra at least once in your lifetime.

    I took a friend to a performance of Mahler’s 2nd Symphony (Resurrection). My friend loves music, but mostly rock and contemporary fingerstyle guitar. He’d never heard Mahler’s 2nd before and never listened to classical music on his own.

    When the symphony ended, he turned to me and said simply,

    Un-fucking-believable.

    It blew him away.

    Live, in a good hall, with a good orchestra…you should do it at least once.

  52. 52.

    Ash Can

    March 4, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    We should give the St. Louis Symphony a shout-out as well. When Leonard Slatkin was there, he really put them — and himself — on the map as champions of American music. (And they could bat out a hell of a Carmina Burana to boot.)

  53. 53.

    Quiddity

    March 4, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    My favorite Beethoven symphony is the Seventh.

  54. 54.

    EnfantTerrible

    March 5, 2010 at 12:15 am

    There is a must-have DVD of Gustavo Dudamel’s first concert as music director of the LA Phil – which, with all due respect to those of you in New York and Chicago, is the current Number One Badass US Orchestra – playing the world premier of a new work by John Adams and Mahler’s First Symphony. To die for.

    I have that DVD and I fully concur. It takes some serious cajones to conduct a world premiere at one’s inaugural concert with a new orchestra. But Dudamel pulled it off. The Mahler symphony is very fine. Young Gustavo has the makings of being the next Leonard Bernstein.

  55. 55.

    Anne Laurie

    March 5, 2010 at 1:22 am

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck: General, are you old (& nerdy) enuf to remember “Deck Us All with Boston Charley”?

    (Charlie remains, of course, a sweetie!)

  56. 56.

    Laertes

    March 5, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Toscanini’s 1952 recording with the NBC orchestra is better. The orchestra is tighter and and the piece flows better. Toscanini performs the piece with more clarity, force, and precision.

    The best example of this is the bit that begins at around 8:20 in the Karajan. (No doubt it’s a bit earlier in the Toscanini.) Listen to 8:45-8:50. There’s this phase down in the bass that should be coursing deep beneath the water like an angry kraken. In the Karajan you can barely hear it. When that phrase reaches its’ climax (arguably, the most forceful strike in the entire movement) at 8:57, Karajan breezes through the note. Toscanini’s rendition of that phrase will give you goosebumps.

    His languid pace at the end of the 1st movement dulls its’ impact.

    Second movement is pretty good, though.

  57. 57.

    General Egali Tarian Stuck

    March 5, 2010 at 1:31 am

    @Anne Laurie: I am old enough, but don’t remember that. Never been much for comic strips, but was a teevee cartoon devotee. A Rocky and Bullwinkle groupie, as it were. Still am, sorta.

  58. 58.

    decitect

    March 5, 2010 at 1:36 am

    @Tracy:
    Totally agree. Had Solti’s on tape in college. Got Karajan’s on CD for Christmas once. Went out and bought Solti’s on CD. For me, Solti really gets the full depth, breadth and inherent tension of the Ninth.

    Though seeing the childrens orchestra at SF Symphony brought me to tears – to see children pounding out the last movement… hope & change, man. Hope & change.

  59. 59.

    Linkmeister

    March 5, 2010 at 1:55 am

    Is anyone else worried that symphony recordings are going the way of the dinosaur due to the trend toward music downloading?

  60. 60.

    Ken Lovell

    March 5, 2010 at 2:43 am

    Get a version conducted by Norrington, or Harnoncourt, or John Eliot Gardiner. Much more dynamic than Karajan’s obsession with making a beautiful noise.

    I worry about you Cole. It took you how many years to appreciate the joys of sharing life with a dog, and you’re only now discovering Beethoven? Verrrryy odd. But now you’re hooked, try some Tchaikovsky, Brahms and Dvorak. If you like it all then you have an enjoyable 20 years in front of you exploring art music* – one of the glories of Western civilisation.

    *A crap label but classical music strictly speaking applies only to art music pre-Mozart, although it’s loosely applied to anything played at concerts where people wear suits. Now I’m finished being pretentious.

  61. 61.

    EJ

    March 5, 2010 at 3:49 am

    @Mark

    Beethoven’s words when the music stops and the voice takes over:

    Beethoven didn’t write the words – “Ode to Joy” is a poem by Schiller. Beethoven sure gave it a magnificent setting though.

  62. 62.

    bob h

    March 5, 2010 at 7:13 am

    I went to a white-hot performance of Beethoven’s 7th Symphony by the Leipzig Philharmonic recently. My slob Governor, Christie, was sprawled in the front row, sound asleep throughout the performance.

  63. 63.

    Peter

    March 5, 2010 at 7:54 am

    I second the recommendation of Furtwangler’s Beethoven. The wartime performances are especially powerful. But be warned, sometimes they can be so powerful they’re exhausting (the Eroica especially). Furtwangler’s life is fascinating, too. One episode of it was the subject of the film Taking Sides, which is well worth watching.

    The Schubert Great C Major conducted by Mackerras with an original instruments orchestra (on Virgin) is one of the most perfect recordings you’ll find. He has one or two other recordings of that symphony, but that one is the best. I also like his recent Beethoven cycle.

    You’ve got a lot of wonderful discoveries waiting for you!

  64. 64.

    PurpleGirl

    March 5, 2010 at 9:07 am

    A live concert is a must do eperience. I also like chamber music and there is an orchestra in NYC — Orpheus Chamber Orchestra — which performs at Carnegie Hall. They are a co-op (???) of sorts; they choose their music by concensus and don’t have a conductor. They also bring in guest soloists. Until I lost my job I’d been buying a subscription for their season for four years. I miss the live music experience.

  65. 65.

    Mark

    March 5, 2010 at 9:53 am

    @Ej

    Beethoven didn’t write the words…

    I think LVB wrote that first stanza and the rest is Schiller (but I certainly agree with you it’s a magnificent setting).

  66. 66.

    Ming

    March 5, 2010 at 9:56 am

    @Corner Stone: thanks. I’m on O-bot, so maybe I’ll just hum about pie (thanks, Cleek) while skipping over the politics. the music theory sounds like just the ticket.

    where would one hear Fertilewanger (sorry, couldn’t help it) if one were inclined? (one is)

    gotta say, i love hearing y’all share renditions/pieces/composers you love. the snark is thick and weapons-grade quality, but the enthusiasm and expertise matches it. i love this place.

  67. 67.

    Clark

    March 5, 2010 at 9:58 am

    I don’t know as much about classical music as many of the people on this thread, but I do know that seeing Sibelius’ 5th at Powell Hall a few years ago was absolute heaven.

  68. 68.

    pat kelly

    March 5, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Try Beethoven’s 32nd piano sonata. Parts of it sound like jazz. A great listen.

  69. 69.

    Mark

    March 5, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Hello Pat

    I don’t know if it’s the part you mean, but here it’s like he’s inventing ragtime nearly fifty years before Joplin was born.

  70. 70.

    gogol's wife

    March 5, 2010 at 11:45 am

    @Mark:

    Fantastic description!

  71. 71.

    jrosen

    March 5, 2010 at 11:50 am

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck

    One smart hill-billy! The conductor as far as I can see isn’t doing much but setting a mood. He certainly isn’t helping the orchestra with any of the tricky things, like ensemble or phrasing. The band is the Berlin Phil, and they know the music in their sleep…otherwise there would be no coherence in the playing at all. For my taste, it is a bit rushed in some places.

    My job for 40 years was playing these symphonies, and I did so with, among others Bruno Walter, Geprge Szell, Casals, Robert Shaw, Colin Davis, and Seiji Ozawa. (BTW you haven’t really heard the 9th until you’ve done it with a Japanese chorus doing the German phonetically…who is this Ara Mention guy they keep singing about?)

    I played for Karajan once, in the Lucerne Festival…he never opened his eyes and was very fortunate that the orchestra (Cleveland) knew the piece (Prokoviev 5) backwards and forwards, the way Berlin knows the 9th. He also sent us off-stage after the performance and took about 8 bows himself. Before the repeat performance we informed him that if he wanted to take the bows alone, he could perform the symphony alone too; that fixed that.

    Karajan had a lot of the rock super-star in his act. But he knew his stuff too, the Nazi bastard. His Ring is still the best, IMHO. I guess that figures too.

  72. 72.

    gogol's wife

    March 5, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    @jrosen: @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Something it took me a while to realize is that most of what the conductor does happens in rehearsal. Watch some great conductor rehearse an orchestra some time (I’m sure there are examples on YouTube) and you’ll see what the real work is.

  73. 73.

    jrosen

    March 5, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Pat Kelly:

    What a coincidence. I just took a break from practicing…Beethoven Sonata 32.

  74. 74.

    JM

    March 5, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Wow, No. 32. U Haz way better chops than me. Working up to the Hammerklavier?

    Was privileged to hear the 9th at Tanglewood last summer from the 13th row. I don’t usually go for flashy conductors, but despite hopping around and hamming it up, Michael Tilson Thomas pulled an astounding performance from the BSO and choir. He totally rocked, which I say as one who saw Jimi Hendrix (he rocked too.)

  75. 75.

    Peter

    March 5, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    @Ming:

    where would one hear Fertilewanger (sorry, couldn’t help it) if one were inclined? (one is)

    Try this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Furtwangler-Conducts-Beethoven-symphonies-Leonore/dp/B00001W09Z/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1267817773&sr=1-5

    Later postwar recordings:
    http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-Symphonies-Box-Set/dp/B00004YU8G/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1267817773&sr=1-7

    And Berkshire Record Outlet (http://broinc.com/) has many of his recordings at good prices.

  76. 76.

    Ming

    March 5, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    @Peter: thanks! I will check it out.

  77. 77.

    pat

    March 6, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Mark – Yes, that’s my favorite part of the piece! (In my more fanciful- less jazzy moments, I picture puppies finally getting over the side of the box and wriggling with happiness – pure joy!)

    jrosen: wow, you can play this?! – I am impressed!

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