I’ve listened to three symphonies today. The webs is awesome:
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.
I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.
Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?
Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.
Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!
Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.
Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.
Not loving this new fraud based economy.
🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵
Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.
This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.
Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard
The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.
There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.
People are complicated. Love is not.
Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.
Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!
GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.
We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.
If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.
Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.
SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.
Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.
The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.
SIA
I can’t see nuttin but teh title
Estragon
Karajan is all sorts of awesome (for a possible Nazi sympathizer). His interpretations of Beethoven are simply unmatched, especially the 3rd, 6th, and 9th.
Mike E
The time-standard for CDs, thanks to Japanese worship of the 9th. Of course, only a former Nazi like Herbert von can coax out all of its Beethoven-ness…
mr. whipple
An die Freude!
matt
oh to be lucky enough to be hearing these for the first time.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Love the symphonies. Listened to a little of this one and will the rest later. One thing though, the Maestro fascinates, but I fail to see the relevance of a guy waving a chopstick stick while looking highly intense. It looks like a seizure of some sort and not very precise instructions, if that’s what it’s meant for. Oh well, the lament of a hillbilly.
Anyways, for lovers of small and large furry critters, here is a couple of Charlie pic from our little hike in the desert this afternoon. And for those who don’t like furry critters, you can DIAF.
Charlie 1
Charlie 2
photostream of other desert pics from today.
jeffreyw
Sammich
Keith G
So, what I am gathering from last night and now, is that your are just now discovering (as in really thoughtfully listening to Beethoven and others?
Cool. Welcome to this wonderful “world”. There is a lot of neat things to find and enjoy.
Alan
“But suddenly I viddied that thinking was for the gloopy ones and that the oomny ones used, like, inspiration and what Bog sends. For now it was lovely music that came to my aid. There was a window open with a stereo on and I viddied right at once what to do.”
mr. whipple
Indeed it is. I’ve been getting back into classical after a long time away. Maybe I was just bored and wanted something new.
The library is incredible for classical CD’s. I can take up to 2 dozen at a time, and keep renewing them for months.
Svensker
Do you read Scott Horton? He always has wonderful music, and lots of things/people that you might not know.
A Tiny Revolution also occasionally has fantastic music, plus very knowledge music theory which is really cool.
Both are, of course, great blogs sans music, too.
James K Polk, Esq.
Library of Alexandria got nothing on us :)
Ming
A Tiny Revolution sounds great, Svensker — thanks —
Tracy
@Estragon:
I’ll take Solti’s first CSO cycle, myself. His Ninth is transcendent.
mellowjohn
my father always said the odd-numbered symphonies were better than the even-numbered ones.
and – as someone once said – austrians were the first spinmeisters: they’ve managed to convince the world that beethoven was austrian and hitler was german.
Jeff
If we are going to the vaults to find the legendary renditions of Beethoven Symphonies– then before anyone says that von Karajan’s performances are definitive– then they have to listen to Furtwängler’s performance’s and then see if they have the same opinion
Toast
I’ve had this symphony on CD forever, and while Karajan does Beethoven like no one else… it still disappoints.
No fault of Karajan’s. The fault is with Ludwig Van for making the orgasmic finale a chorale. So many minutes of build up, build up, build up, and then you’re ready — you’re READY for the big Ode to Joy bust out — and some irritating dude starts singing.
I’d pay $50 for a CD of the ninth where the chorale was replaced with a bursting instrumental of OtJ. No questions asked.
Citizen Alan
Being a confirmed Socialist, I’ll go with this instead.
two_kittehs
Where does Sullivan find his understudies, to blog for him? Is it just me or does anyone else find Alex Massie kinda annoying and pretentious, he is like the Hyacinth Bucket of bloggers.
maody
Wrong composer, but got to tell ya, I heart me some Shostakovich after being invited last night to see/hear the London Philharmonic Orchestra in Chapel Hill, NC.
Symphony No. 4 in C minor, Op. 43 – YOWZA
Scott de B.
Beethoven is my favorite composer, by far.
Huh? The human voice is the most beautiful instrument there is. The choral finale is what elevates the 9th to the Mount Rushmore of Classical music.
Corner Stone
@Ming:
You should be warned – ATR is not very high on the Obama Administration. Don’t know your persuasion but they don’t take prisoners on the issues they care about.
WTS – the music theory (I guess, I don’t have a better way to define it) is un freakin believably detailed and good, IMO.
When they put it down it is righteous.
No Joy in Mudville
@Estragon:
Possible sympathizer??? Karajan was a Nazi. He joined the party in 1933. To me that says nothing about his musical abilities, but a lot about him as a human being (no matter what his motivations were for joining the party).
First, I’m not trying to pick a fight. Preferences in things like composers and conductors are ultimately personal, so don’t waste time or energy responding like this is a personal attack on your mother.
Many (possibly most) serious classical music critics today seem to have a greatly diminished opinion of Karajan. He is still the consensus choice on a very few pieces of music (by any composer) and probably no Beethoven symphony. Some critics out-and-out hate him, others just find the work of Wand, Boehm, Szell, Kleiber, and others to be superior to that of Karajan. It seems to me they’re right.
I have a number of Karajan recordings, including Beethoven’s complete symphonies (1963 edition) and, in general, I find the set to be quite good, with the exception of 6, which is easily the poorest version I own.
However, in every other symphony I own a version that I think is significantly better than Karajan’s.
Tastes vary, and I wouldn’t tell anyone to avoid Karajan’s 1963 complete symphony cycle, especially because it is usually available for a very agreeable price. Still, if I were buying a new complete cycle today, I definitely wouldn’t opt for HvK.
Mark
Beethoven’s words when the music stops and the voice takes over:
Stone deaf, sick, pissed off at the world and he could still deliver right to the very end. Nothing compares to LVB–thanks for the post John.
mr. whipple
John: If you like FZ, you might dig this guy.
Svensker
@Corner Stone:
They are definitely to the left of pretty much everyone. Very pro-palestinian, anti-imperialist, etc. Both Jonathan and Bernard are very smart guys, and I find them to be a real breath of fresh air in a world where “Dept. of Jihad” is on the TV. Bernard’s the music maven.
D-Chance.
You have got to be kidding me.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
I keep trying to think of something clever to say about Lovely Ludwig Van’s glorious Ninth, but I can’t. Simply the best piece of music ever in the Western tradition.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Well, that’s how about 90% of the left side blogs are. Not exactly a rarity.
Balloon Juice is one of the few lonely Obot posts this side of The Great Prog Rift. And I suspect it will fall sooner or later.
Mike E
Catching a live performance is a must–I saw Mehta conduct Rite Of Spring at the Mann in Fairmount Park in Philly. With a thunderstorm looming in the distance, this remains one of the best rock concerts I ever heard.
burnspbesq
@Estragon:
I used to think that, but I no longer do. I like some more recent recordings, especially of the early symphonies, with scaled-back orchestras that are closer to what Beethoven would have had in mind when he was writing.
mr. whipple
@Mike E:
I heard the 9th by the Cleveland Orch on the lawn at Blossom Music Center ~1983 or so with a very cute date. Joy, indeed.
Litlebritdifrnt
If we are going to go full on for classical I would definitely say Beethoven’s 9th, (the full version), Delibe “The flower duet” (it makes me cry yet today), Rachmaninov’s “Rhasphody on a theme of Paginnini” (to die for, to absolutely die for)
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=9ZBU97emdig&v=z9Z-HCq5EeU
burnspbesq
There is a must-have DVD of Gustavo Dudamel’s first concert as music director of the LA Phil – which, with all due respect to those of you in New York and Chicago, is the current Number One Badass US Orchestra – playing the world premier of a new work by John Adams and Mahler’s First Symphony. To die for.
madmommy
That is a beautiful piece of music. Sadly, my classical education doesn’t extend much beyond those pieces used in Bugs Bunny cartoons.
@burnspbesq:
Thought you’d like to know, Betsy’s niece Cassie got a full ride scholarship to Princeton!
burnspbesq
@madmommy:
No fuckin way! That is so awesome! The next Sonia sotomayor, that kid is.
Litlebritdifrnt
Oops forgort part two…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5bP1CdfM-8&NR=1
Estragon
@Tracy: @No Joy in Mudville: @burnspbesq: All points well taken. I’ll need to revisit some other conductors’ interpretations of Beethoven – I’ve only listened to a very limited number of renditions, and I found HvK the best.
Also, good point on using the word ‘alleged’. There’s a reason Yitzhak Perlman refused to play for him…
madmommy
@burnspbesq:
Yeah, it’s pretty cool, eh? She restores my faith in the future.
Estragon
@Mark: I’ve long maintained that the only argument you need to make to prove the existence of miracles is to play Beethoven’s Ninth.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Sod it there is a part three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MuPqYtV_k&NR=1
gogol's wife
@Estragon:
I’m assuming when No Joy in Mudville says “Kleiber” he/she means Erich Kleiber. It’s hard to listen to Karajan after Kleiber’s Beethoven (although Karajan was my intro and I was really hooked). The older I get the more Beethoven speaks to me.
skippy
you cannot do better than von karajan and the berliner philharmonic and beethoven.
here’s herb & the gang doing the second movement to ludwig’s seventh…a piece that starts out morose and macabre and winds up majestic and inspiring.
but just fer shits & giggles, try leonard bernstein’s interpretation of the ninth (last movement, the notable “ode to joy”), recorded upon the occasion of the fall of the berlin wall, w/…”an orchestra and chorus formed of musicians from both east and west germany (bavarian radio symphony orchestra, staatskapelle dresden), as well as the united states (new york philharmonic), great britain (london symphony), france (orchestre de paris) and the soviet union (orchestra of the kirov theater)” and “june anderson, soprano; sarah walker, mezzo-soprano; klaus könig, tenor;and jan-hendrik rootering, bass.”
not too shabby.
No Joy in Mudville
@burnspbesq:
Since Dudamel just took over the orchestra, Esa Pekka Salonen has to be given a lot of the credit for the orchestra’s current quality, which is very high.
The best? According to a recent large poll of so-called classical music experts Chicago is the best US orchestra, followed by Cleveland, and then LA.
When an orchestra is that good, who cares — sit back and enjoy.
No Joy in Mudville
@gogol’s wife:
Not Erich, but Carlos, his son, who died in 2004. His recording of the 5th and 7th is widely regarded as the best in both symphonies, although, as always, tastes vary. Tastes aside, by consensus, this is one recording that is a consensus great recording. (Though it’s always possible to find someone to disagree.)
I have multiples of all of Beethoven’s symphonies and the Kleiber 5th rekindled my interest in that symphony at a time where I had heard it so much I was in danger of losing interest.
Szell also has a great performance of the 5th coupled with Sibelius’ 2nd Symphony. If someone were looking for Beethoven symphonies, I’d say go with the Kleiber for sure. But if you’re not looking for another 7th and want a very fine Sibelius, then “settling” for Szell’s 5th won’t be painful at all.
Triumph
Personally, I prefer the Sir Georg Solti and Chicago Symphony Orchestra interpretations of Beethoven’s symphonies to Karajan. Also second whoever said that if you have a chance to attend a live performance of the 9th you absolutely have to, even if like me it’s just a performance by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra.
No Joy in Mudville
@Estragon:
A contemporary conductor who has produced superb Beethoven symphonies is Osmo Vanska, a Finnish conductor widely recognized for his Sibelius recordings. The complete cycle is available for only $46. (BIS sonic quality is often as good as it gets.)
For the Old Timers (conductors), look to Gunter Wand who did some splendid recordings when he was in his 90s! I don’t believe it, only $40.
DougW
@Triumph
Hey ASO isn’t so bad. The best choral town in the hemisphere. They’ve got some really great recordings too.
EnfantTerrible
If you really want to get to know Beethoven, I mean really get to know him, you have to listen to his string quartets. The 10th Quartet in E-flat (“Harp”) is a good introduction. The late quartets are among the most sublime music ever written.
No Joy in Mudville
@Triumph:
Don’t knock Atlanta. I’ve never heard them live, but they’ve done some fine recording.
There are lots of orchestras in this country that are well worth hearing. Atlanta, may not be Cleveland, but most of us probably couldn’t tell the difference.
In addition to all the usual suspects (Chicago, Cleveland, LA, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston), San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Dallas, and Seattle are all fine. (That’s not an exhaustive list or even close to one — only ones I’m familiar with.)
According to the poll I cited earlier, the US has seven (7!) of the world’s twenty best orchestras.
The level of musicianship today is amazing.
No Joy in Mudville
I’d encourage everyone to take in a live classical concert with a good professional orchestra at least once in your lifetime.
I took a friend to a performance of Mahler’s 2nd Symphony (Resurrection). My friend loves music, but mostly rock and contemporary fingerstyle guitar. He’d never heard Mahler’s 2nd before and never listened to classical music on his own.
When the symphony ended, he turned to me and said simply,
Un-fucking-believable.
It blew him away.
Live, in a good hall, with a good orchestra…you should do it at least once.
Ash Can
We should give the St. Louis Symphony a shout-out as well. When Leonard Slatkin was there, he really put them — and himself — on the map as champions of American music. (And they could bat out a hell of a Carmina Burana to boot.)
Quiddity
My favorite Beethoven symphony is the Seventh.
EnfantTerrible
There is a must-have DVD of Gustavo Dudamel’s first concert as music director of the LA Phil – which, with all due respect to those of you in New York and Chicago, is the current Number One Badass US Orchestra – playing the world premier of a new work by John Adams and Mahler’s First Symphony. To die for.
I have that DVD and I fully concur. It takes some serious cajones to conduct a world premiere at one’s inaugural concert with a new orchestra. But Dudamel pulled it off. The Mahler symphony is very fine. Young Gustavo has the makings of being the next Leonard Bernstein.
Anne Laurie
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: General, are you old (& nerdy) enuf to remember “Deck Us All with Boston Charley”?
(Charlie remains, of course, a sweetie!)
Laertes
Toscanini’s 1952 recording with the NBC orchestra is better. The orchestra is tighter and and the piece flows better. Toscanini performs the piece with more clarity, force, and precision.
The best example of this is the bit that begins at around 8:20 in the Karajan. (No doubt it’s a bit earlier in the Toscanini.) Listen to 8:45-8:50. There’s this phase down in the bass that should be coursing deep beneath the water like an angry kraken. In the Karajan you can barely hear it. When that phrase reaches its’ climax (arguably, the most forceful strike in the entire movement) at 8:57, Karajan breezes through the note. Toscanini’s rendition of that phrase will give you goosebumps.
His languid pace at the end of the 1st movement dulls its’ impact.
Second movement is pretty good, though.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Anne Laurie: I am old enough, but don’t remember that. Never been much for comic strips, but was a teevee cartoon devotee. A Rocky and Bullwinkle groupie, as it were. Still am, sorta.
decitect
@Tracy:
Totally agree. Had Solti’s on tape in college. Got Karajan’s on CD for Christmas once. Went out and bought Solti’s on CD. For me, Solti really gets the full depth, breadth and inherent tension of the Ninth.
Though seeing the childrens orchestra at SF Symphony brought me to tears – to see children pounding out the last movement… hope & change, man. Hope & change.
Linkmeister
Is anyone else worried that symphony recordings are going the way of the dinosaur due to the trend toward music downloading?
Ken Lovell
Get a version conducted by Norrington, or Harnoncourt, or John Eliot Gardiner. Much more dynamic than Karajan’s obsession with making a beautiful noise.
I worry about you Cole. It took you how many years to appreciate the joys of sharing life with a dog, and you’re only now discovering Beethoven? Verrrryy odd. But now you’re hooked, try some Tchaikovsky, Brahms and Dvorak. If you like it all then you have an enjoyable 20 years in front of you exploring art music* – one of the glories of Western civilisation.
*A crap label but classical music strictly speaking applies only to art music pre-Mozart, although it’s loosely applied to anything played at concerts where people wear suits. Now I’m finished being pretentious.
EJ
@Mark
Beethoven didn’t write the words – “Ode to Joy” is a poem by Schiller. Beethoven sure gave it a magnificent setting though.
bob h
I went to a white-hot performance of Beethoven’s 7th Symphony by the Leipzig Philharmonic recently. My slob Governor, Christie, was sprawled in the front row, sound asleep throughout the performance.
Peter
I second the recommendation of Furtwangler’s Beethoven. The wartime performances are especially powerful. But be warned, sometimes they can be so powerful they’re exhausting (the Eroica especially). Furtwangler’s life is fascinating, too. One episode of it was the subject of the film Taking Sides, which is well worth watching.
The Schubert Great C Major conducted by Mackerras with an original instruments orchestra (on Virgin) is one of the most perfect recordings you’ll find. He has one or two other recordings of that symphony, but that one is the best. I also like his recent Beethoven cycle.
You’ve got a lot of wonderful discoveries waiting for you!
PurpleGirl
A live concert is a must do eperience. I also like chamber music and there is an orchestra in NYC — Orpheus Chamber Orchestra — which performs at Carnegie Hall. They are a co-op (???) of sorts; they choose their music by concensus and don’t have a conductor. They also bring in guest soloists. Until I lost my job I’d been buying a subscription for their season for four years. I miss the live music experience.
Mark
@Ej
I think LVB wrote that first stanza and the rest is Schiller (but I certainly agree with you it’s a magnificent setting).
Ming
@Corner Stone: thanks. I’m on O-bot, so maybe I’ll just hum about pie (thanks, Cleek) while skipping over the politics. the music theory sounds like just the ticket.
where would one hear Fertilewanger (sorry, couldn’t help it) if one were inclined? (one is)
gotta say, i love hearing y’all share renditions/pieces/composers you love. the snark is thick and weapons-grade quality, but the enthusiasm and expertise matches it. i love this place.
Clark
I don’t know as much about classical music as many of the people on this thread, but I do know that seeing Sibelius’ 5th at Powell Hall a few years ago was absolute heaven.
pat kelly
Try Beethoven’s 32nd piano sonata. Parts of it sound like jazz. A great listen.
Mark
Hello Pat
I don’t know if it’s the part you mean, but here it’s like he’s inventing ragtime nearly fifty years before Joplin was born.
gogol's wife
@Mark:
Fantastic description!
jrosen
@General Egali Tarian Stuck
One smart hill-billy! The conductor as far as I can see isn’t doing much but setting a mood. He certainly isn’t helping the orchestra with any of the tricky things, like ensemble or phrasing. The band is the Berlin Phil, and they know the music in their sleep…otherwise there would be no coherence in the playing at all. For my taste, it is a bit rushed in some places.
My job for 40 years was playing these symphonies, and I did so with, among others Bruno Walter, Geprge Szell, Casals, Robert Shaw, Colin Davis, and Seiji Ozawa. (BTW you haven’t really heard the 9th until you’ve done it with a Japanese chorus doing the German phonetically…who is this Ara Mention guy they keep singing about?)
I played for Karajan once, in the Lucerne Festival…he never opened his eyes and was very fortunate that the orchestra (Cleveland) knew the piece (Prokoviev 5) backwards and forwards, the way Berlin knows the 9th. He also sent us off-stage after the performance and took about 8 bows himself. Before the repeat performance we informed him that if he wanted to take the bows alone, he could perform the symphony alone too; that fixed that.
Karajan had a lot of the rock super-star in his act. But he knew his stuff too, the Nazi bastard. His Ring is still the best, IMHO. I guess that figures too.
gogol's wife
@jrosen: @General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Something it took me a while to realize is that most of what the conductor does happens in rehearsal. Watch some great conductor rehearse an orchestra some time (I’m sure there are examples on YouTube) and you’ll see what the real work is.
jrosen
Pat Kelly:
What a coincidence. I just took a break from practicing…Beethoven Sonata 32.
JM
Wow, No. 32. U Haz way better chops than me. Working up to the Hammerklavier?
Was privileged to hear the 9th at Tanglewood last summer from the 13th row. I don’t usually go for flashy conductors, but despite hopping around and hamming it up, Michael Tilson Thomas pulled an astounding performance from the BSO and choir. He totally rocked, which I say as one who saw Jimi Hendrix (he rocked too.)
Peter
@Ming:
where would one hear Fertilewanger (sorry, couldn’t help it) if one were inclined? (one is)
Try this:
http://www.amazon.com/Furtwangler-Conducts-Beethoven-symphonies-Leonore/dp/B00001W09Z/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1267817773&sr=1-5
Later postwar recordings:
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-Symphonies-Box-Set/dp/B00004YU8G/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1267817773&sr=1-7
And Berkshire Record Outlet (http://broinc.com/) has many of his recordings at good prices.
Ming
@Peter: thanks! I will check it out.
pat
Mark – Yes, that’s my favorite part of the piece! (In my more fanciful- less jazzy moments, I picture puppies finally getting over the side of the box and wriggling with happiness – pure joy!)
jrosen: wow, you can play this?! – I am impressed!