• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Republicans in disarray!

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

People are weird.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Mobile Menu

  • Seattle Meet-up Post
  • 2025 Activism
  • Targeted Political Fundraising
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / By the time I get to Phoenix

By the time I get to Phoenix

by DougJ|  April 27, 20101:17 pm| 142 Comments

This post is in: Good News For Conservatives, We Are All Mayans Now

FacebookTweetEmail

I used to attend conferences in Arizona fairly regularly. But it’s difficult to imagine anyone wanting to visit Arizona with this going on already, and things about to get a lot worse (via GOS):

Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.

Abdon, who did not want to use his last name, says he provided several key pieces of information but what he provided apparently was not what was needed.

He tells 3TV, “I don’t think it’s correct, if I have to take my birth certificate with me all the time.”

It’s hard to see where this is all headed. This law seems insane and unworkable, but I don’t see the Palinese Liberation Army backing away from it.

On the one hand, it’s already dividing Republicans — president Rubio is questioning it, for example — and Villagers don’t seem to like it much either.

On the other, Republicans will almost certainly filibuster any effort at federal reform. And whatever bill is proposed will be considered (a) insufficiently Burkean by the Bobo wing of the Village, (b) insufficiently Kean-Hamilton-Dole-Mitchellesque by the Broder wing of the Village, (c) another example of Adolf Obama’s fascisoshulcommunist assault on the constitution by wingers, and (d) another example of Rahmbama betrayal by much of the left blogosphere.

So where is this all heading? My guess would be three years of gridlock at the federal level (until after the 2012 elections) and at least a few months of insanity in Arizona until key provisions are struck down by courts and/or the boycotts start to sting.

What do you think?

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Goldman Hearings
Next Post: Immigration politics »

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  1. 1.

    gonzone

    April 27, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Agree with everything except the chances of this law being struck down by our current Supremes. No confidence there.

  2. 2.

    MikeJ

    April 27, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    I wonder how many Mariners fans want our team to stay in the Cactus league.

  3. 3.

    Michael

    April 27, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    The filth of Scots-Irish social conditioning – the gift that keeps giving, particularly when they get old……

  4. 4.

    AnotherBruce

    April 27, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I think we should actually thank the Republican party for motivating the Latino vote just in time for the 2010 elections.

    Well, not actually.

  5. 5.

    El Cid

    April 27, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I wouldn’t carry around my birth certificate and original Social Security card in my car for any petty thief to break in and steal and then be able to have a ball with identity theft.

  6. 6.

    danimal

    April 27, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    You forgot to add the part where all the red states try to one-up the AZ law with even more repressive restrictions (armbands? tattoos?). You think Alabama’s gonna let AZ win this one? GA, SC and possibly TX could also show up with the crazy.

  7. 7.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 27, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    @Michael: WTH?

  8. 8.

    cleek

    April 27, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    agree with it all.

    remember when conservatives like Reagan would use “show me your papers!” as a way to scare people about the possibility of a police state ?

    good times!

  9. 9.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Well, speaking as someone almost at Ground Zero (but not quite, since I am not Hispanic), it’s a simplistic and ultimately unworkable answer to a difficult problem. It’s like passing a law banning sick people as a way to deal with health care reform.

    I believe there’s a lot of hysteria about this law; it’s not going to lead to brown people rounded up en masse. Arizona is not filled with law enforcement goons just aching to crack heads. I fear a Texas state trooper a lot more than the average Arizona Highway Patrol officer.

    However, the potential for abuse and/or misinterpretation by some local law enforcement is very real; especially by Joe Arpaio who has never allowed an opportunity to grandstand in front of the media, to go to waste. Particularly if he can grandstand on the immigration issue.

    (oddly enough, it was only two or three years ago that Arpaio said he wasn’t interested in getting involved in the immigration issue; it’s only very recently that he’s chosen to use it to pander to the fearful white citizen vote.)

    What promises to be the *really* interesting part of this law, is the part which allows citizens to sue if they don’t think the government is enforcing the law sufficiently well. I can just see one of Russell Pearce’s constituents filing suit because he saw a brown guy standing outside Home Depot, his head uncracked by a cop.

  10. 10.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    @cleek: Police states are all well and good with conservatives, so long as they can be assured that only non-whites/gays/liberals/other flavors of ‘undesirables’ will be its victims.

  11. 11.

    demo woman

    April 27, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I want a Tunch t-shirt that says I Could Be Illegal
    Luthe on a previous post suggests “I’m a US citizen, asshole”

  12. 12.

    HumboldtBlue

    April 27, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Just carry the proper goddamned papers, be prepared to present them at a moment’s notice to anyone wearing a badge and shut up! That’s why.

    I am also forming an Arizona Citizen’s Committee (even though I live far, far away), sort of like a neighborhood watch type-dealio, and we will be actively watching our streets for any suspicious looking characters walking or driving around. We will then notify the proper authorities and have you stopped, searched and hopefully detained. Traffic is a bitch!

    Now where is my flag …

  13. 13.

    RSA

    April 27, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Thank God for the Second Amendment and its conservative defenders! Wait a minute–why is it that only white people get to take that line?

  14. 14.

    MikeTheZ

    April 27, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I see lawyers getting very rich off this.

    And the ReThugs accuse dems of pandering to lawyers, while passing laws only a lawyer could love.

  15. 15.

    Cat Lady

    April 27, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    I think someone innocent is gonna get hurt, followed by sturm und drang by all the usual suspects, Pat Buchanan will be on Hardball to tell us it was all avoidable if white people weren’t threatened, wingnuts will continue to be duped into supporting Wall Street and our march to the Mayan end times will continue apace.

  16. 16.

    kay

    April 27, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    @El Cid:

    Not to mention never again having that all-important “original” vault copy.
    Yours would be a shoddy and unreliable replacement, and that means you can’t be President.
    BY LAW.
    Mine is sealed in a zip-lock baggy, in my purse, like that lady at the Tea Party event, except I don’t have a little flag attached. Is that required?

  17. 17.

    Osprey

    April 27, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    This law is nothing but a cart-blanche for the police (who down there are already jacked-up shitheads with authoritative control complexes and racist undertones) to detain anybody they want-and you’ll soon see them start raiding people’s homes and businesses because the owner or occupant ‘dressed like one of them illegal aliens”. They’ll confiscate everything in the home or business and conveniently ‘dispose’ of that person’s passport/identification so they can’t prove citizenship. PROFIT!

    There are ways to handle illegal immigration, then there’s this law. Next thing they’ll do is start sending people off to ‘special camps’, and instead of Stars of David, they’ll staple a sombrero to their heads.

  18. 18.

    Drive By Wisdom

    April 27, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Where else to go but BJ and DougJ for lapping up the latest liberal whine-o-meme.

    He was pulled over by ICE. ICE is a FEDERAL AGENCY.

    The stoopid, it burns.

  19. 19.

    Martin

    April 27, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    I’m still putting my money on MLB pulling spring training out of the state. The economic ball will roll quickly downhill from there.

    Alternatively, launching a campaign to take maximum advantage of the ‘you can sue if the don’t do their job’ to bankrupt the state. Have every Democrat in the state say ‘Hola’ as they walk past a cop and then sue if they don’t ask for your papers. Only hire out-of-state attorneys. It’ll take about 2 weeks of that before the law changes.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Kevin

    April 27, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @Michael: It’s you again. DIAF, you bigoted sack of shit.

  21. 21.

    MattF

    April 27, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Be glad you’re not in Phoenix or Maricopa county. We can joke here about the wingnut event horizon, it’s actually happening there.

  22. 22.

    BottyGuy

    April 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Someone should start a new Arizona state travel campaign “Passport to Arizona” to remind people with dark complexions that if you are visiting Arizona you need to bring your passport. “It’s like Canada, only warm”

  23. 23.

    jeffreyw

    April 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Anyone caught eating one of these will need to show papers.

  24. 24.

    Midnight Marauder

    April 27, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    @r€nato:

    I believe there’s a lot of hysteria about this law; it’s not going to lead to brown people rounded up en masse. Arizona is not filled with law enforcement goons just aching to crack heads. I fear a Texas state trooper a lot more than the average Arizona Highway Patrol officer.
    __
    However, the potential for abuse and/or misinterpretation by some local law enforcement is very real; especially by Joe Arpaio who has never allowed an opportunity to grandstand in front of the media, to go to waste. Particularly if he can grandstand on the immigration issue.

    Conversely, I think all the hysteria about this law is pitch perfect. It is a complete and total catastrophe in any way you look at it. This law gives Arizona citizens the right to sue any municipality or agent of the state (read: regular people) if they aren’t doing enough to round up brown people. And the standards dictating “doing enough” are so specious and lacking in feasibility that it will only be a short matter of time before xenophobic, anti-immigrant zealots are flooding town after town with lawsuit after lawsuit.

    Understand that we are talking about a law that says if you are an out-of-state visitor to Arizona (who is still an American citizen), your state-issued driver’s license may not be sufficient to prove your citizenship because your state just so happens to not require that standard of people seeking their license. You know, since they’re more focused on making sure people are proficient in operating a motor vehicle.

    No one needs to be rounded up en masse for you to be terrified about this law. In fact, that is what makes it so scary, that any brown person in the state, anywhere, can be subjected to an intentionally unfulfillable standard of citizenship.

    And as someone who was born and raised in Texas and driven all over its roads many times, I would take the Texas State Trooper over any law enforcement official in Arizona with these new powers at their disposal any day of the fucking week.

  25. 25.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    @Martin: yeah, I don’t think they’re going to abandon the shiny new stadia built for them.

    MLB is probably, however, hoping mightily that this shit resolves itself before next March.

  26. 26.

    Evinfuilt

    April 27, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    @danimal:
    Didn’t Georgia just put in a law to make sure the government can’t “tag” citizens. Oh yeah, that’s right, can’t tag citizens, so visitors should get implants and illegals should get a tattoo across their forehead.

  27. 27.

    Citizen_X

    April 27, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    @Drive By Wisdom: Oh, I’m so glad you agree: it is completely wrong for either Federal or state authorities to grab people on the street and demand birth certificates.

    Thanks for stopping by!

  28. 28.

    MattR

    April 27, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    While the AZ law is a complete piece of crap, it seems important to point out that it was federal ICE agents involved in the incident described above. (granted, the AZ law may have put the idea into the ICE agents head)

    The other thing worth remembering is that this is a trucker (as opposed to you or me) with tons of additional paperwork, etc that should prove he is a US citizen without needing a birth certificate.

  29. 29.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    @Midnight Marauder:

    yeah, that’s what I wrote: the interesting part is going to be where any yokel can sue for ‘non-enforcement’.

  30. 30.

    licensed to kill time

    April 27, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Given how popular identity theft is, I wonder if this ‘carrying your vital documents on your person’ will give rise to snatch and grabs of said documents.

    They’d know who to target now, right? And it adds another layer of meaning to “Show me your papers” .

  31. 31.

    kay

    April 27, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    @Martin:

    We just had a case in my state go to appeal because the lawyer in a OVI case got the charges dropped and had an order in hand to release his client. ICE sent an order to the local jail to hold the inmate, and the lawyer filed contempt against ICE, for violating a state order.
    This is like the Full Employment for Lawyers Act. It’s a big enough mess as it is, without adding these clowns to the mix.
    Let the games begin.

  32. 32.

    slag

    April 27, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    @Drive By Wisdom: Learn to read:

    But it’s difficult to imagine anyone wanting to visit Arizona with this going on already, and things about to get a lot worse

    Nobody is saying this is a result of the stupid law they just passed. DougJ is saying that it’s bad enough already that we’re doing this. That you consider the fact that ICE did this to be a defense of it is really bizarre. Or, more accurately…the stoopid, it burns!

  33. 33.

    SomeoneWhoOncePostedUnderaDifferentName

    April 27, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    This law is facially unconstitutional. I bet a district court judge strikes it down within 3 months.

  34. 34.

    LuciaMia

    April 27, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    I see lawyers getting very rich off this.

    Don’t forget the provision that allows citizens to sue the local government if they don’t think cops are harrassing possible illegals enough.

  35. 35.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    @MattF: Indeed. I’d like to remind everyone that this law is not reflective of how all Arizonans think; this law is, instead, reflective of what happens when wingnuts are allowed to run the show.

    The state Democratic party here is pathetically weak. They still haven’t put up a candidate for McCain’s seat, whom even 1 out of 10 folks on the street could name.

  36. 36.

    Evinfuilt

    April 27, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    @Drive By Wisdom:

    Sorry you have reading comprehension problems. You see, the truck stops are run by State Patrol, who turned him over to ICE, who did let him go.

  37. 37.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    April 27, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    It’s hard to see where this is all headed.

    Not really. The only question is how many horrific flusterclucks it will take before non-insane people can no longer stick their fingers in their ears and chant “La la la, I can’t hear you!” and the fReichtards declare anyone who complians about police harrassment should be shot.

  38. 38.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    April 27, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I agree with what Markos said during one of his brief respites from flogging his upcoming book, namely that this has all the potential to backfire on AZ Rethugs electorally for the next generation.

    AZ’s always been a crackpot, semi-bigoted state, just look at how long it held out on MLK day.

    Well, this time, they’ve picked on some brown people who actually *live* there so it’s California all over again.

    And for what? Years of court cases that will eventually strike down most if not all of the law.

  39. 39.

    Zifnab

    April 27, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    @gonzone: This court upheld habeus corpus rights and a number of other Constitutional tenants. Also, even the biggest wingers on the bench aren’t beholden to a bunch of immigration extremists in Arizona. This is a state issue, and the Republicans in that state have gone way off the reservation, both politically and legally. I don’t see a big reason for the SCOTUS judges to condone this kind of bad behavior.

    That said, I expect any strike down will be constrained as narrowly as possible by the Roberts Court. If Scalia can find some nit to pick in the law, and unravel it from that, the conservative justices can defuse issue without sacrificing too much partisan credibility.

  40. 40.

    Cat

    April 27, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    The first winner of Arizona’s new Enrich a Minority program steps forward with his winning birth certificate.

  41. 41.

    El Cid

    April 27, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Can’t the state of Arizona just declare everyone in the state by default as being possibly an enemy combatant or having terrorist connections? Then they could lock them up forever without telling anyone or without charge or ship them to Syria to be tortured or whatever.

  42. 42.

    MikeJ

    April 27, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    @MattR:

    The other thing worth remembering is that this is a trucker (as opposed to you or me) with tons of additional paperwork, etc that should prove he is a US citizen without needing a birth certificate.

    Huh? What exactly does a trucker carry that proves citizenship?

  43. 43.

    The Moar You Know

    April 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    I will quote from Wikipedia:

    Along with the rapid increase in the Latino population in California, some analysts cite Governor Wilson’s and the Republican Party’s embrace of Proposition 187 as a cause of the rapid decline in the ability of the party to win statewide elections[11]. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is the only Republican to win a California gubernatorial, senatorial, or presidential election since 1994.

    This is what will happen. California was a fairly reliable Republican vote pre-1994. Not any more.

  44. 44.

    Sophist

    April 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    What do you think?

    I think every liberal in Arizona should start dressing like the Frito Bandito and peppering their speech with whatever Spanish words and phrases they think they know.

    Yo soy de Sparticus, senor.

  45. 45.

    Bulworth

    April 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Palinese Liberation Army. That’s gold, Jerry, gold!

  46. 46.

    licensed to kill time

    April 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Someone here on BJ once said that ol’ Drive By ought to stop for that Wisdom once in a while. I see it didn’t take the advice.

  47. 47.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    @MikeJ: A Toby Keith CD.

  48. 48.

    stuckinred

    April 27, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    My family lives in Phoenix and my dad died seven years ago. I mark the MLK Day fiasco as the beginning of my dad’s decent into racism. He was a WWII Vet, a high school teacher and coach and, when I was a kid in North Chicago, our house always had black and white players there all the time. There was something about what he perceived as inconsistency of the boycotts that made him nuts. I would try to talk to him about it but it only got worse over time. It’s one of the saddest things I deal with and I think there will be unintended consequences from this situation that will occur for years.

  49. 49.

    The Moar You Know

    April 27, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    What exactly does a trucker carry that proves citizenship?

    @MikeJ: A quarter-gram of meth and a Confederate flag t-shirt.

  50. 50.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    @The Moar You Know: The proportion of Hispanic voters here in AZ is not as large as that in CA. I wish it were true that SB1070 became the downfall of the Arizona GOP, but the Hispanics just don’t have the clout… yet.

  51. 51.

    Keith G

    April 27, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    @danimal: No…..mainsteam Texas pols want no part of this. 51% of our population classifies themselves as Hispanic. Even most of the really stupid conservatives know a suicide trap when they see one.

  52. 52.

    Midnight Marauder

    April 27, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    @r€nato:

    yeah, that’s what I wrote: the interesting part is going to be where any yokel can sue for ‘non-enforcement’

    Touche. I see you did touch on that. My apologies. I would still maintain that all of the hysteria is very much so founded, however. The law basically says that it’s illegal to even know about someone who could possibly be illegal, or even interact with them.

    It’s just outright insanity.

  53. 53.

    kay

    April 27, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    @SomeoneWhoOncePostedUnderaDifferentName:

    This law is facially unconstitutional. I bet a district court judge strikes it down within 3 months.

    But what an exciting three months! I’d hate to be that governor. Couldn’t she have sent it back for revision? I know she has to kowtow to the looniest members of her Party, but couldn’t she slow them down a little? Hope they’d move onto challenging the health care bill or something?

    They have about a 5 second attention span, and Obama does all kinds of outrageous things. He could bow again. That’d distract them.

  54. 54.

    GregB

    April 27, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Is the Arizona House drawing up plans for funding boxcars and building train routes to ship the suspects back to Mexico?

    P.S. Just what kind of name is Arpaio anyhow? Let’s see the papers Joe, or is that Jose?

  55. 55.

    Citizen_X

    April 27, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    @Michael:

    The filth of Scots-Irish social conditioning

    Long version: Boy, that’s some finely-distilled irony: describing pathological authoritarianism as an inherent flaw of a specific ethnicity.

    Short version: Fuck you too.

  56. 56.

    Punchy

    April 27, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Understand that we are talking about a law that says if you are an out-of-state visitor to Arizona (who is still an American citizen), your state-issued driver’s license may not be sufficient to prove your citizenship

    Whoa whoa whoa….wait a minute. A DL is not sufficient proof of citizenship? Really?

    Holy fuck, they actually MIGHT detain all sorts of people. I would never have guessed that my DL isn’t good enough….

  57. 57.

    Michael

    April 27, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    @Comrade Kevin:

    It’s you again. DIAF, you bigoted sack of shit.

    Sucks when somebody actually notices it, doesn’t it? The tribal superiority, the eliminationism, the violence when they don’t get their way or get to run things.

    The whole mentality is disgusting – you might not have shit, you might not be socially mobile, but by God, a Scots-Irish had better be at the top of the heap so you can call on him.

    Deal with your douchebags. Prove me wrong. Get them to disdain teabag talk, to be interested in folks that aren’t exactly like them.

  58. 58.

    cleek

    April 27, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    @Drive By Wisdom:

    The stoopid, it burns.

    try soaking your head in buttermilk. i’ve heard that can help.

  59. 59.

    liberty60(Veteran, Great War of Yankee Aggression)

    April 27, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    @El Cid:
    How many times does Rep. Brian Bilbray have to explain this?

    My white skin is my birth certificate.

    Your Mexican shoes are proof you are illegal.

  60. 60.

    Michael

    April 27, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    @Citizen_X:

    It isn’t genetic behavior – it is learned. I know it because I’ve lived it.

  61. 61.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    @kay: Brewer is running for governor, and she’s got primary competition. She became governor thanks to Napolitano resigning to become part of Obama’s administration, so she’s kind of an incumbent but not really since she didn’t win the governor’s chair through a direct election.

    So, it was a no-brainer that she would sign it, though she did attempt to create a faux period of ‘thoughtful consideration’ before following through.

    The sad part is that, truly, Jan Brewer is not a teabagger. There are Republicans here who are far loonier than she. Electoral politics are what make her lean farther to the right than she otherwise might.

    (I would never vote for her, but let’s be clear about what she is, at least).

  62. 62.

    sukabi

    April 27, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    you forgot to mention all the chest-beating poutrage on the right because Mexico had the audacity to issue a travel advisory to their folks traveling to Arizona…

    plus I’m sure there will be additional poutrage because of the impending boycotts of all things Arizona…

  63. 63.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    @GregB: He’s of Italian Sicilian descent.

  64. 64.

    anna missed

    April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Maddow covers the history of who wrote the new Arizona law, not pretty, not pretty at all.

  65. 65.

    MattR

    April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    @MikeJ: To be honest, I am not 100% sure. I am basing that on what I thought I knew plus what I read in comments on the GOS diary. Specifically that that a CDL requires proof of citizenship before you can get one and that most, if not all, truckers are bonded which also requires proof of citizenship.

    This does not answer your question directly, but frankly I cannot imagine any company allowing someone here illegally to drive a truck. The risk is just too great for the company. So I would assume that verifying that the trucker is actually working for a real and legit company (as opposed to MattR’s Trucking) should be enough to pass the common sense test.

  66. 66.

    aimai

    April 27, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I’m with Renato on feeling like this isn’t going to be a “magic bullet” for the dems–long or short term. I mean, sure, the Republicans lost CA in some sense, but before they lost it they managed to get that crazy law passed so that in the minority they can still fuck the whole state up for as long as they want over the budget. If the AZ legislature does the same thing it won’t matter how the AZ minority population grows, the state will end up going down in flames like CA has.

    But I also think this law is really going to pinch even in advance of any big, “name” boycotts like a sports team. As someone pointed out on another thread Phoenix is a huge hub. What happens when foreign tourists, erroneously concerned that they may be stopped and hasseled, or out of solidarity with civil rights, refuse to layover in Phoenix? I’m white and I’m sure as hell not taking my kids to Tucson or the GC while these laws are in place. My long dead liberal grandparents retired to AZ back in the day. Their grand grandchildren, my nieces, are non white. How many of these lunatic angry white grandma’s and grandpa’s are going to like it when their kids explain that they aren’t driving the grandkids through Joe Arpaio’s state for any visits?

    It takes just a few white people getting pulled over for having minority looking children in the backseat, or driving grandma’s caregiver home, for this whole thing to blow up bigtime and make the very people who supported it very unhappy.

    aimai

  67. 67.

    Face

    April 27, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I don’t see a big reason for the SCOTUS judges to condone this kind of bad behavior.

    This is easy. Liberals hate this law, ergo, therefore, 5 Supremes will find a way to uphold it. The current USSC is just as rabidly partisan as the legislative branch.

  68. 68.

    liberty60(Veteran, Great War of Yankee Aggression)

    April 27, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    This is what will happen. California was a fairly reliable Republican vote pre-1994. Not any more.

    And Arnold was an outlier, a RINO elected on his celebrity and socially moderate/ Democratic views.

    I don’t see any Repubs winning much outside of the population-poor inland areas of CA, and pockets of angry old white people.

  69. 69.

    kay

    April 27, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    @r€nato:

    The sad part is that, truly, Jan Brewer is not a teabagger. There are Republicans here who are far loonier than she. Electoral politics are what make her lean farther to the right than she otherwise might.

    I read that. To me, though, that makes it worse, not better. She knows better. I don’t really understand letting them run away with this. She has an awful lot of power. I think she has an obligation to use that to slow them down.

  70. 70.

    MikeJ

    April 27, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    @Punchy: At the border they will point out to people again and again that a driver’s license isn’t proof of citizenship, and there’s still always some jackass trying to argue that it is.

    If they won’t accept it at the border, I don’t see how anybody else could accept anything other than a birth certificate or a passport.

  71. 71.

    Zach

    April 27, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    My guess is that Reid gets a bill to the floor as quickly as possible and forces the GOP to kill it. Ditto for cap and trade. Guarantees huge increases in the Latino vote share that’ll be important in CA, NV, CO, and AZ senate races… and many more contested House races. Guarantees that said folks will come out to vote in huge numbers in elections that are usually low turnout. Since the bills will fail, it’ll be impossible for the GOP to effectively run a populist campaign against them. “Things would be a lot worse if we hadn’t stopped Obama from doing X, Y, and Z, and Repsentative Q wanted to help him!!!” is way too complicated an argument to get any traction. Dems who might actually be imperiled by this sort of vote can vote against cloture, too.

    There’s zero chance of getting a good climate bill or a good immigration bill through this Senate because GOP opposition to everything has hardened and the Dem caucus won’t stay together on either front. The sort of compromise that was required to pass health reform will completely ruin energy and immigration laws instead of just making them incrementally worse.

    On immigration, the best hope is probably to wait till after the midterms and hope that GOP reps who supported it last time will be less chickenshit when there’s no election on the line. As someone who thinks real cap and trade is absolutely the most important priority for the country right now, I don’t see a remote chance for passage of a sufficient in the current Congress.

    The best shot at getting cap and trade done before 2016 is to keep as many Democrats in power as possible for as long as possible to get as liberal a Federal court system as possible to uphold an EPA mandate on that front.

  72. 72.

    MattR

    April 27, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    @MikeJ: But of course, Arizona will accept an Arizona driver’s license as proof of citizenship.

  73. 73.

    balconesfault

    April 27, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    I think LULAC should schedule a meeting there just to screw with their heads.

  74. 74.

    Joel

    April 27, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Wondering why the Arizona boycott hasn’t picked up steam yet.

  75. 75.

    Allan

    April 27, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Pat Buchanan has had an erection for months thinking about the coming race war.

    Seriously. Find recent photos of Bay and you can see her tuck coming undone and creating serious tenting in the front of her slacks.

  76. 76.

    rootless-e

    April 27, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Ensign: Do you bastards at Goldman know how I had to work like a dog to find a few fucking pennies to bribe the husband of my girlfriend by getting him a job illegally influencing public officials while you were just piling up bonus money!??!

  77. 77.

    MattR

    April 27, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    @balconesfault: If there is some way to do that without providing an economic benefit to the state.

    @rootless-e: Aww. Poor Ensign is jealous.

  78. 78.

    Drive By Wisdom

    April 27, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Sorry you have reading comprehension problems. You see, the truck stops are run by State Patrol, who turned him over to ICE, who did let him go.

    Evinfruit perpetuates the lie, and you all lap it up. Talk about epistemological closure and reading comprehension.

    “He pulled in to have the truck looked at, was apparently approached by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents and asked for ID. He showed them his commercial driver’s license. They asked him for more ID.”

    ICE agents hang out at weigh stations. You all should visit a border state sometime. As far as DougJ’s brilliant observation, THIS has been SOP for DECADES.

    That you just discovered you had a problem with it is a function of your bigotries, not your enlightment.

  79. 79.

    Brien Jackson

    April 27, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    @aimai:

    http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/04/26/redeeming_jerusalem_by_truth_not_hollow_slogans

    Prop 13 passed by popular referendum.

  80. 80.

    El Cid

    April 27, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    @Allan: If your race war anticipation lasts for more than 4 hours, please call your local Klan representative.

  81. 81.

    JK

    April 27, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    What do you think?

    I think Jan Brewer is a fucking disgrace to humanity and it’s time to bring Arizona to its goddamn knees with the largest boycott in history.

  82. 82.

    Brien Jackson

    April 27, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    @Face:

    That’s kind of ridiculous. The current court is a radically activist conservative entity hell-bent on rolling back corporate regulations, consumer protections, etc…which gives them a pretty large incentive not to make decisions without at least a plausible legal rationale on high profile issues.

  83. 83.

    Keith G

    April 27, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    @aimai:

    I’m with Renato on feeling like this isn’t going to be a “magic bullet” for the dems—long or short term.

    I agree, but not necessarily on the merits of Renato’s case. I just happen to not believe in magic, or silver, bullets.

    This is trench warfare against zombie hoards and I get a cramp every time I hear or read some version of “…and this will finish them off.”

  84. 84.

    Cain

    April 27, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    @Martin:

    ‘Hola’ as they walk past a cop and then sue if they don’t ask for your papers. Only hire out-of-state attorneys. It’ll take about 2 weeks of that before the law changes

    Nah, by then the state will be out of money and can’t pay anybody including the governor. They’ll all be working essentially for free. Good times! Conventions are going to pull out, trucks can’t go because they’ll have to carry birth certificate, immigration papers whatever. Oh man, tourism is going to go low. I see a bad summer coming for Arizona.

    cain

  85. 85.

    Origuy

    April 27, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    There’s some discussion going on at an orienteering blog about this. Events in Arizona just got more complicated. Say Sheriff Joe comes across a group of people running through the desert at night with maps, headlamps, and hydration packs. Some of them have foreign accents. Do they have visas? If they’re student visas, are they still in school? If they are tourist visas, are they working on the side? If they claim to be American citizens, do they have a birth certificate? Is it genuine?
    As the poster there (a Russian immigrant) said, Sheriff Joe is likely to haul them all in until Monday when the girl who knows how to search the Federal database comes in.

    Someone said on another blog that the real target of this is the voting booth. If this isn’t overturned before November, watch out. Anyone with a tan is going to be challenged.

  86. 86.

    Midnight Marauder

    April 27, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    @aimai:

    I’m with Renato on feeling like this isn’t going to be a “magic bullet” for the dems—long or short term.

    As someone pointed out on another thread Phoenix is a huge hub. What happens when foreign tourists, erroneously concerned that they may be stopped and hasseled,

    My long dead liberal grandparents retired to AZ back in the day. Their grand grandchildren, my nieces, are non white. How many of these lunatic angry white grandma’s and grandpa’s are going to like it when their kids explain that they aren’t driving the grandkids through Joe Arpaio’s state for any visits?

    It takes just a few white people getting pulled over for having minority looking children in the backseat, or driving grandma’s caregiver home, for this whole thing to blow up bigtime and make the very people who supported it very unhappy.

    These are the reasons I disagree with you and r€nato. And let’s be honest, the concerns of those foreign tourists are by no means erroneous.

    By no means.

    Edit: Although I don’t like the characterization of this battle being a “magic bullet.” But let’s also not act like this fight isn’t going to reflect the future of American politics for the next few decades in many ways. These battle lines are not going away any time soon.

  87. 87.

    balconesfault

    April 27, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    I’m looking forward to MLB Spring training next year, when hundreds of young male Domincans and Venezuelans and Mexicans and Puerto Ricans – many whose english language skills are nowhere near their ability to hit a curve – flood central Arizona for a month.

    No potential for embarrassing headlines there!

  88. 88.

    aimai

    April 27, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Brien J,
    Good point. A lot of weird things pass easily under CA’s weird referenda system. But there’s nothing to stop the AZ legislature from passing the same kind of bill through the regular process. In fact, I’m sort of surprised they haven’t. Perhaps they have. At any rate, my point is that the nutcases are going to be in charge of AZ for a long time to come before the minority population can manage to take over enough of the elected seats to put some less crazy laws in place. And I don’t think there’s any clear sign that the Democrats will be their preferred party or that they will be any less crazy–just in a different self serving modality–than the current altekocker white majority.

    aimai

  89. 89.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    @aimai: I’ll say again – the wingnuts are only in charge because the state Democratic party is laughably weak.

    In 2006, Arizona overwhelmingly gave Napolitano a 2nd term (her opponent was a social conservative nutcase) and rejected a ban on gay marriage.

    All it takes is some leadership to hold back the wingnut tide. Right now, there’s a vacuum. I’m only surprised there hasn’t been *more* wingnut legislation. Maybe we can thank the state budget crisis for keeping them distracted.

  90. 90.

    stuckinred

    April 27, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    @Cain: Yea. lot’s of people “summer” in Arizona.

  91. 91.

    CDT

    April 27, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    As a procedural matter, SB 1070 won’t take effect until 90 days after the Legislature adjourns, which is likely to be in a week or so. There will no doubt be suits filed to enjoin enforcement of the law long before it takes effect.

  92. 92.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    April 27, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    you forgot to mention all the chest-beating poutrage on the right because Mexico had the audacity to issue a travel advisory to their folks traveling to Arizona…

    For realz? That’s hilarious. I mean, skittish furriners anxiously clutching their identity papers and GtFo of the state ASAP sounds like a fRighty wet dream.

    Mexico’s foreign relations ministry said Mexicans in Arizona should carry documentation and “act carefully” after the state passed a law making it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally.

    Yeah. Oo. Awful. Bring the fainting couch.

  93. 93.

    Cacti

    April 27, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    As a resident of the Valley of the Sun, hear are a few tips for helping you boycott Arizona:

    1. If you’re planning a vacation to AZ, cancel it. Go to California or New Mexico instead. Contact the Arizona Office of Tourism and let them know about it.

    2. Likewise, if your Office is planning a trip or convention in AZ, encourage them to choose Las Vegas or San Diego instead. Again, have them contact the Office of Tourism and let them know why.

    2. If you’re a fan of Major League Baseball and your team plays in the Cactus League, contact them and let them know you will not attend or watch any of their Cactus League games as long as this law is in place.

    3. If you’re a College Football Fan, contact the BCS and let them know that you won’t attend or watch a Bowl Game hosted by AZ as long as this law is in place. Also, contact your college/university and encourage them to boycott games with U of A and ASU.

    4. Additionally, contact your favorite NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL franchise and let them know that you will boycott any games they play against the Cardinals, D-backs, Suns, or Coyotes.

    5. If you’re a PGA fan, let them know that you will not view or attend any Tour events hosted by Arizona.

    Arizona depends on Tourist dollars. What prompted them to finally recognize the MLK Holiday was when the NFL moved the Super Bowl from Phoenix to Pasadena.

    The State economy is currently in the crapper. We can’t even afford to keep our highway rest areas open. Any noticeable decrease in tourist dollars as a result of this law will quickly have the State government howling for mercy.

  94. 94.

    sunsin

    April 27, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I had to get a new copy of my birth certificate to apply for my Canadian passport about a year ago. They’ve been changed — now they’re formatted explicitly for the purpose of discouraging people from carrying them around (plasticized paper just about impossible to fold properly, nearly the size of a letter page). I asked why and they told me there was too much identity theft if people started carrying them everywhere and using them for identification.

  95. 95.

    LarsThorwald

    April 27, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    What do I think?

    I think when you stare into the abyss you get the abyss back.

    I think we are all — all of us — staring into the abyss as a nation.

    Interesting times.

  96. 96.

    Rosali

    April 27, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    My optimistic guess is that the first lawsuit filed in federal court in AZ will request an injunction asking that the law not be enforced until the issue is litigated and the question of the law’s constitutionality is fully settled. That lawsuit is being drawn up now and will be filed in court the day the law goes into effect.

  97. 97.

    Cain

    April 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    @stuckinred:

    @Cain: Yea. lot’s of people “summer” in Arizona.

    Hah, yeah, good point. You won’t catch me there in the summer (or anytime soon.. since who wants to carry a passport all the time)

    cain

  98. 98.

    licensed to kill time

    April 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    @sunsin:

    A new idea for a business: DocSacks! Carry your docs in style with our handy neck bags designed by Gucci and studded with Swarovski crystal beads. Be the first on your block!

    (Burlap economy model available.)

  99. 99.

    Keith G

    April 27, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    @Origuy: Good catch.

    Someone said on another blog that the real target of this is the voting booth. If this isn’t overturned before November, watch out. Anyone with a tan this going to be challenged.

    I hadn’t thought of that. Voting while tanned.

  100. 100.

    Brien Jackson

    April 27, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    @aimai:

    I don’t know, the majority party really has no incentive to give the minority party the power to block their agenda.

  101. 101.

    Origuy

    April 27, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    @stuckinred: The Grand Canyon is pretty high up. Much of it is snowed in winter. I was there in July a few years ago. The weather was quite pleasant.

  102. 102.

    Brien Jackson

    April 27, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    @Cacti:

    4. Additionally, contact your favorite NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL franchise and let them know that you will boycott any games they play against the Cardinals, D-backs, Suns, or Coyotes.

    The rest of the post is great advice, but I don’t see how this one will hurt Arizona at all.

  103. 103.

    jeffreyw

    April 27, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Someone said on another blog that the real target of this is the voting booth. If this isn’t overturned before November, watch out. Anyone with a tan is going to be challenged.

  104. 104.

    General Egali Tarian Stuck

    April 27, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    @Rosali: I think this is what will happen, sooner rather than later. The law clearly violates search and seizure constitutional requirements via “probable cause” that includes all US persons on American soil. Whether citizens or not. Meanwhile, next door here in NM, we can point and laugh at the nutters in AZ, and give west Texas a well undeserved breather. Our deep blue vibes of Enchantment are being emitted as we speak, and will sooth the savage moran beasts over time. I propose dems in congress immediately put forth a bill forcing AZ to recognize MLK day every day of the year till further notice. Please excuse, Earth Mother is calling.

  105. 105.

    auntieeminaz

    April 27, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    @r€nato: I would add that it was poor staff work in Brewer’s office to even allow the legislature to send her the bill. Her dilemma could have been avoided.

  106. 106.

    Zuzu's Petals

    April 27, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    @LuciaMia:

    And when local agencies go bankrupt defending these frivolous lawsuits, guess who will howl the loudest? Hint: think teabags.

  107. 107.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    @auntieeminaz: indeed. Good point. After all, she didn’t get any anti-choice bills on her desk, and had they arrived there she would have been obligated by her crazy base to sign them.

  108. 108.

    CDT

    April 27, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Both the ACLU and the Mexican American Legal Defense Fund have stated that they intend to file suit within a month or so, or about two months before the law will take effect. (The effective date of Arizona laws is 90 days after session adjourns). I’m certain they will ask for an injunction against the law taking effect. Whether that works or not will depend upon whether the law is facially unconstitutional or whether the better argument is that as enforced it is a violation of equal protection. A fair number of people seem to think that the pre-emption argument is a strong one, although I’m a bit skeptical.

  109. 109.

    jeffreyw

    April 27, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Brewer is being portrayed as signing the bill reluctantly to shore up right wing support. Bullshit. This is just a convenient vehicle to get her own views into law.

  110. 110.

    Zuzu's Petals

    April 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    @Punchy:

    Whoa whoa whoa….wait a minute. A DL is not sufficient proof of citizenship? Really?

    Well, since people with green cards and certain types of visas can get licenses, I guess not. Theoretically someone could have lost their permanent resident status or have an expired visa and still be driving under a valid license.

  111. 111.

    jayjaybear

    April 27, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    The state’s pushing for Peak Wingnut. Brewer just signed a bill prohibiting Arizona’s new health insurance exchanges from covering abortions in the basic insurance, even if they’re private exchanges that don’t even receive state money. Arizona’s just piling up the wingnut stuff now.

  112. 112.

    Cacti

    April 27, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    @Brien Jackson:

    Road games.

    Left out “road”.

  113. 113.

    terry chay

    April 27, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    @r€nato: That is true but not by much. 2008 estimate:

    Percent of Hispanics/Latino descent:
    California: 36.6%
    Arizona: 30.1%
    U.S.: 15.4%

    Here is the real reason Arizona is different demographically than California. Percent of non-hispanic whites:
    California: 42.3%
    Arizona: 58.4%
    US: 65.6%

    The interesting thing is the 187 trend may hold true:

    Anecdotally, I remember some of the most vocal supporters of 187 were Asian Americans (I don’t know the statistics and my sampling is obviously both bad and biased). I think somewhere along the line they flipped. The backlash wasn’t immediate, but it happened. Remember when Blacks went to the polls to vote for Obama, they didn’t exactly vote against Prop 8 in droves. However, the trend lines are clear, because like Asians during 187, Blacks on Prop 8 will be flipped, because the most generic issue is that while it may sound reasonable to a majority on the surface, the longer the issue is presented (immigration or gay marriage), the more it starts to appear as a generic discrimination issue.

    Perhaps even more importantly, the numbers above were taken the same year. What I should be doing is taking the numbers of Arizona today (30% hispanic, 58% whites, non-hispanic) and compare them to California of 1994.

    I couldn’t pull up the data, but in 1996, California was still not yet a majority-minority state (still had ~50% whites, non-hispanic, ~30% hispanics). These are very similar to Arizona numbers. The peak immigration into California occurred during the early 90’s just before (and probably the reason why) Prop 187 came up.

    Remember in the 70’s when California was the most conservative large-state in the union (Nixon, Reagan), the state was over 3/4’s white, non-hispanic. So the demographic shift occurred during then.

    Demographically, the timing of 187 and this bill in the respective states bears a whole lot more resemblance most people are reporting. I have a feeling that politicians (both Democratic and Republican) know this. That explains a lot of the maneuvering (the Democrats trying to the bring it to the top of the agenda (behind finance) and the Republicans trying to take it off the national agenda). Locally, I think this will win allow the Republicans to retain their seats this year, at the cost of being pushed into the wilderness indefinitely. Just like Pete Wilson and the California Republicans.

  114. 114.

    Midnight Marauder

    April 27, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    @jayjaybear:

    The state’s pushing for Peak Wingnut. Brewer just signed a bill prohibiting Arizona’s new health insurance exchanges from covering abortions in the basic insurance, even if they’re private exchanges that don’t even receive state money. Arizona’s just piling up the wingnut stuff now.

    The hits really do just keep on coming:

    On Saturday, “at the Center for Arizona Policy Family dinner before 1600 guests,” Brewer signed SB 1305, the first-in-the nation bill that would prohibit insurers in the state-run health care exchange “from providing coverage for abortions unless the coverage is offered as a separate optional rider for which an additional insurance premium is charged.
    __
    The new Arizona law is a radical mini Stupak. It prevents insurers from offering abortion services, except under the most extreme circumstances, even if only private money were used to pay for those services. Most if not all women in the exchange would only be able to purchase coverage through an impractical, separate abortion “rider” or leave the exchange entirely and find coverage in the shrinking individual health insurance market. Since it’s unlikely that many insurers will offer abortion riders or that women will purchase them in anticipation of needing an abortion — in fact, “in the five states where abortion riders are currently required, no insurance company offers them” — the Arizona law will severely disadvantage poorer women who would likely have to pay out of pocket for abortion services.

    I think we can officially begin referring to Arizona as “Peak Wingnut Headquarters.”

  115. 115.

    CDT

    April 27, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Sorry if this is a duplicate, but I’m having technical difficulties:

    Both the ACLU and the Mexican American Legal Defense Fund have stated that they intend to file suit within a month or so, or about two months before the law will take effect. (The effective date of Arizona laws is 90 days after session adjourns). I’m certain they will ask for an injunction against the law taking effect. Whether that works or not will depend upon whether the law is facially unconstitutional or whether the better argument is that as enforced it is a violation of equal protection. A fair number of people seem to think that the pre-emption argument is a strong one, although I’m a bit skeptical. There are plenty of areas where both the feds and states regulate, and state laws don’t necesarily run afoul of the pre-emption clause unless they are inconsistent with the federal regime. Here the argument would be that Arizona’s law is not.

  116. 116.

    Cacti

    April 27, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    @terry chay:

    Without a doubt, SB 1070 is “fear of a brown state” legislation.

    The demographic trends aren’t on the side of non-hispanic whites and they know it, so they’ve ramped up the harrassment/intimidation in hopes of driving the “others” away.

  117. 117.

    Face

    April 27, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    That’s kind of ridiculous. The current court is a radically activist conservative entity hell-bent on rolling back corporate regulations, consumer protections, etc…which gives them a pretty large incentive not to make decisions without at least a plausible legal rationale on high profile issues.

    Uh…lolwhutz? Why does the highest court in the land need legal rationales for the rulings it makes? Who the hell would someone appeal to, even if the rulings were farcical or insane?

    In a rational world, the Supremes would use past law as precedent and the Constitution as their guideline. But if you think for a minute that Alito, Thomas, Scalia or Roberts is going to vote in favor of the liberal postition for any case, you’re sadly naive. The USSC is a partisan mess….they might as well just ask Kennedy how he rules in order to know which side won. They dont need legal rationale or precedent to defend their ruling, they just announce it and move on.

  118. 118.

    Rosali

    April 27, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    @CDT: I’m sure the plaintiffs will make arguments based upon federal pre-emption, equal protection, vagueness, 4th Amendment violations, and everything else they can think of. All the more reason why the request for the temporary injunction should be granted pending the outcome of the litigation and years of appeals. The law won’t be in effect for long before a federal court in AZ temporarily restrains its enforcement.

  119. 119.

    r€nato

    April 27, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    @Cacti: …which makes the advice of people like Duncan Black – “move the hell out!” – counterproductive.

    Getting rid of the brown people is exactly what they want. Instead, we should get MORE of them here so that we can all vote out the stupid politicians who propose these laws.

  120. 120.

    ChrisB

    April 27, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I wonder what the prospects are for civil enforcement of the new law before it’s found to be unconstitutional. You know, like citizen arrests of suspected illegals. Find ’em, hold ’em, and call the cops.

    False imprisonment be damned.

    This is great for those Minutemen who came out of the woodwork several years ago. Now they don’t have to go down to the border in their RV’s.

  121. 121.

    Comrade Dread

    April 27, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    @r€nato:

    Arizona is not filled with law enforcement goons just aching to crack heads.

    You’ve got Sheriff Joe. Case closed.

  122. 122.

    db

    April 27, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    @Rosali:

    The law won’t be in effect for long before a federal court in AZ temporarily restrains its enforcement.

    Depends on what judge in federal court in AZ hears it. There are a couple nutjobs sitting on the federal bench in Phoenix.

  123. 123.

    slag

    April 27, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    @Drive By Wisdom:

    That you just discovered you had a problem with it is a function of your bigotries, not your enlightment.

    And that you have failed to notice the many, many immigration protests composed of thousands upon thousands of us over the years is a function of your bigotries. Moran.

  124. 124.

    Tonybrown74

    April 27, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    Well, since people with green cards and certain types of visas can get licenses, I guess not. Theoretically someone could have lost their permanent resident status or have an expired visa and still be driving under a valid license.

    That is bullshit. I am a US Citizen and I wasn’t born here. My birth certificate proves nothing. I’d have to walk around with my passport, at the very least.

  125. 125.

    CDT

    April 27, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    @rosali and db:

    I’m not a constitutional lawyer and will defer to those like Glenn Greenwald who are. I happen to think the law is lousy, too, but do believe a note of caution is in order about the standard for issuance of a preliminary injunction or other equitable relief enjoining its enforcement. Plaintiffs will have to prove a likelihood of success on the merits and irreparable harm should such relief be denied. To the extent that some of the negative effects of the law will be the result not of its passage but of its implementation (say, racial profiling in practice), that might actually be harder than everyone assumes. The legislature consulted Clint Bolick of the Goldwater Institute in an attempt to anticipate these challenges. He’s a crusader for all the wrong ideas, but can be a formidable foe. Stated another way, this is another instance where those opposed to the law cannot rely on the courts to save the day. They may not.

  126. 126.

    Stefan

    April 27, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Getting rid of the brown people is exactly what they want. Instead, we should get MORE of them here so that we can all vote out the stupid politicians who propose these laws.

    Or…and hear me out, here….we let all the nuts gather in one state, and then Obama sells Arizona back to Mexico. Sure, we’d lose some territory, and it’d hurt to lose the Grand Canyon, but we’ll also rid ourselves of several million wingnuts. And I think I’d enjoy watching John “Don’t Call Me Maverick!” McCain have to learn how to flip-flop in Spanish.

  127. 127.

    Comrade Dread

    April 27, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    @MattR:

    I don’t see how you can use an AZ driver’s license as proof of citizenship.

    For all Federal verification purposes, you are required to display both a DL and an SS card. It is also recommended that you do not carry your SS card with you.

    Aside from which, it was ridiculously easy for me to get an AZ license when I moved to that state a few years back. I just flashed my expired CA license, got a photo taken and walked out in 10 minutes with my new license that wouldn’t expire for 30 years. (Given how much I’ve changed in the 10 years since that date, trying to use it as an ID would be a joke.)

  128. 128.

    Faux News

    April 27, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    126 replies and no one has yet to say “This is good news for President John McCain”?

    Apologies if I missed it in this thread.

  129. 129.

    ChockFullO'Nuts

    April 27, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    “Getting rid of brown people is what they want.”

    Of course, that’s pretty ridiculous, considering that Arizona is about 30% hispanic now, and the percentage is growing rapidly even without illegal immigration. What’s more, even a stupid Republican can figure out that if you alienate a third of your population when your own demographics are shrinking, you are committing political suicide in the long run.

    Meanwhile I haven’t read the thread, since the churn over this issue is getting pretty tiresome, but one thing you can absolutely count on is that any boycott activity will hurt, first and foremost, the very people who are most likely to be injured by the new law, namely, the lower end of the middle class, blue collar workers, service workers, minimum wage workers …. hispanics, other minorities. Those are always the demos that get hurt first and worst by economic sanctions, whether it’s a state, or a foreign country. The fat cat Republicans won’t suffer much. A boycott is an idiotic fucking idea.

    Right now, the people in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California are resigned to the fact that we four states are taking it in the shorts because the other 46 states would rather play political games with immigration than actually solve any problems. We eat shit and bark and the moon, putting up with the drug runners and the coyotes and the no man’s land along the border because the rest of the country likes to demagogue this 100-year-old issue instead of really addressing it, leaving us to carry the burden, and then shitting on the border states when, in desperation, they try to force the issue.

    I sincerely hope that the politicians in Washington watch in horror as their political machines get forever fucked by the immigration issues, because that is exactly what they so richly deserve.

  130. 130.

    Little Dreamer

    April 27, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    @El Cid:

    But the beauty is, you won’t have to, with the “In Your Skin” information tracking chip, all your information is safe and secure, in your right arm! And then you can say you gave your right arm for Homeland (and Personal) Security.

    I can imagine conspiracy theorists are ginning up this idea right now.

    ;)

  131. 131.

    Little Dreamer

    April 27, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    @Comrade Dread:
    __

    Aside from which, it was ridiculously easy for me to get an AZ license when I moved to that state a few years back. I just flashed my expired CA license, got a photo taken and walked out in 10 minutes with my new license that wouldn’t expire for 30 years.

    You didn’t get the eye test? I did.

    Although someone on another site recently stated that they had to take the written test when they turned theirs in and I didn’t have to take it. I wonder if Arizona MVD has been racially profiling all along? Let me guess, you’re a white male, so your eyesight is not questioned, while I am a white female so mine is, but, since I am (and I think you are) white, I (we) didn’t have to take the written test?

    Hmmmm!

    I recently had a friend here who is a Pakistani muslim (who has since moved to Texas), and he had an AZ driver’s license but he’s not a legal citizen, he’s here on a visa. How can AZ keep track of legal citizenship through a driver’s license under these circumstances?

  132. 132.

    Cacti

    April 27, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    @ChockFullO’Nuts:

    A boycott is an idiotic fucking idea.

    I respectfully call bullshit.

    Arizona changed its tune about Martin Luther King Day when the NFL removed the Super Bowl from Phoenix to Pasadena.

  133. 133.

    ChockFullO'Nuts

    April 27, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    @Cacti:

    That was a power play, which worked. Not a general boycott which slammed hotel cleaning ladies, which is what is being proposed now.

    I call your bullshit and raise you triple bullshit.

  134. 134.

    MattR

    April 27, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    @Comrade Dread: I don’t make the laws. I just read about them online.

    A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
    2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
    3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
    4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

    I can’t cut and paste from this PDF that lists Arizona’s ID requirements to get a license, but the first item states that out of state licenses are only valid if that state verifies lawful presence in the US.

  135. 135.

    Little Dreamer

    April 27, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @MattR:

    I both purchased and registered and car and drove on a FL license for the first two and a half years I was here. FL allows dual state citizenship. I wasn’t ready to give my FL citizenship up while I first moved here. AZ knew I owned a car with an AZ tag under a FL license and did not stop me from doing that. I decided after two and a half years to make my citizenship in this state official.

    Whether it works under other states, I cannot say, but I know FL gets a lot more leeway in where people can hold their licenses.

  136. 136.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 27, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Here in Ga, I have a good friend (British expat) who has lived here for about 14 years on a green card. His kids have done *all* their schooling here. He is married to a US citizen. He has held a valid Ga drivers license since arriving back in 1996. Well over a year ago he filed the paperwork to become a citizen himself. Of course he’s still waiting (these things take time). Meanwhile his DL was about to expire so he took all his immigration/citizenship paperwork to the DMV to renew his DL but was told that he could not drive while his application was pending. This was a couple of months ago. Now his (old) license has expired, no one will tell him the status of his citizenship application, and he has the choice of (a) driving illegally without a license, which means if he gets in an accident or gets pulled over he’s fucked, or (b) losing his job because he has no alternative transportation to work (because FSM forbid metro Atlanta should institute decent public transit) which in turn jeopardizes his green card status so he’s fucked. Did I mention that either way he’s fucked unless INS/ICE finally comes through with his citizenship approval, like TOMORROW.

    We truly have a screwy system. I can only imagine how much worse it would be by orders of magnitude for a visible minority with minimal command of the language and not much general education. (My English friend is an Oxford graduate, a professional, and Anglo-Saxon in name, heritage and appearance.)

  137. 137.

    sneezy

    April 27, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    @Osprey:

    “This law is nothing but a cart-blanche for the police (who down there are already jacked-up shitheads with authoritative control complexes and racist undertones) to detain anybody they want…”

    Oh, for crying out loud: what is your basis for this “jacked-up shitheads” and “racist” crap?

    Arizona law enforcement agencies are struggling to figure out how they are going to enforce this law. Given that it is, at least for now, the law, that is their responsibility. The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposed the law and urged the governor to veto it.

  138. 138.

    Comrade Kevin

    April 27, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    @Michael: My douchebags? Teabaggers? What the fuck are you talking about? They have about as much in common with me as someone from Tibet. You probably also think that all Muslims have to repeatedly apologize for 9/11, or they’re part of the plot.

    Go jump in front of a train or something.

  139. 139.

    Barry

    April 27, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    @Michael: “The whole mentality is disgusting – you might not have shit, you might not be socially mobile, but by God, a Scots-Irish had better be at the top of the heap so you can call on him.”

    I wish – the classic pattern for white trash is that they’re OK as long as somebody is below them. They don’t mind being one step above bottom.

  140. 140.

    mikefromtexas

    April 27, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    The real boycott will happen late summer/early fall when no one shows up to harvest the state’s crops. Who are these racist fucks going to blame for the 2 to 3 billion dollars of produce rotting in the fields?

  141. 141.

    sherifffruitfly

    April 28, 2010 at 3:47 am

    (shrug) The only one who can stop white folks from being bigots is white folks.

  142. 142.

    Cerrajero de Phoenix

    May 3, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    What would we do if Mexicans were white and had no accents? How would they define reasonable suspicion? On what basis would they ask for someone’s proof of citizenship? For those who don’t think this legislation is racism, let me know how many Canadians get stopped and asked for papers.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - Winter Wren - North of Quebec City (part 2 of 3) - Cap Tourmente and on the way to Tadoussac 2
Image by Winter Wren (5/13/25)

Recent Comments

  • Baud on Tuesday Evening Open Thread (May 14, 2025 @ 4:53am)
  • Baud on Tuesday Evening Open Thread (May 14, 2025 @ 4:45am)
  • Geminid on Tuesday Evening Open Thread (May 14, 2025 @ 4:38am)
  • YY_Sima Qian on War for Ukraine Day 1,174: More Drone Swarms in the Small Hours of the Night (May 14, 2025 @ 3:05am)
  • prostratedragon on Tuesday Evening Open Thread (May 14, 2025 @ 2:39am)

PA Supreme Court At Risk

Donate

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
War in Ukraine
Donate to Razom for Ukraine

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Meetups

Upcoming Ohio Meetup May 17
5/11 Post about the May 17 Ohio Meetup

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Hands Off! – Denver, San Diego & Austin

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix

Keeping Track

Legal Challenges (Lawfare)
Republicans Fleeing Town Halls (TPM)
21 Letters (to Borrow or Steal)
Search Donations from a Brand

PA Supreme Court At Risk

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!