While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘demonstrators and protesters’ confront armed National Guardsmen.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. Governor Rhodes fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the National Guard at the request of the Mayor of Kent, Ohio. It is interesting to note, in looking back that student anti-war rioting started to decline not long after Kent State (and the shootings at Jackson State).
I love this kind of thing: well, it’s unfortunate that the National Guard killed innocent people, but you have to admit that the overall effect of killing these innocent people was good. Just like Jesus said, sometimes you have to kill innocent people for the greater good.
This is from one of those crazy First Things blog that Larison and Sullivan turned me onto.
This is what sickens me about modern Catholicism, the effortless pivot from YOU ARE GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON’T ACCEPT ALL THE CHURCH’S TEACHING, YOU CAFETERIA CATHOLIC to a shrugging “kids got raped, kids got killed, it’s all good”.
Update. I’m not saying Larison or Sullivan or anyone else said this was a good blog, I’m saying that I learned of this rich source of right-wing idiocy via their mockery of it.
Joey Maloney
well, it’s unfortunate that the National Guard killed innocent people
Where in your quote does the writer say he thinks it was unfortunate?
El Cid
Well, you have to shoot students to maintain order, but taxation is theft and tyranny from the gubmit.
DougJ
@Joey Maloney:
He said it earlier in the post.
(EDIT: I added it back in — I’ve been cropping excerpts too closely lately.)
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I can go with this. Then we need to call up the guard and gun down some TeaBaggers to teach em a lesson. See if they stand by their “puerile”. Ought to fix their wagon, and it would also have the good grace of not opening fire on unarmed College Students on their way to classes. Though it was their own fault for not having the smarts to pack heat that day. How could the good governor and patriotic NG be blamed for that.
mistermix
It’s interesting that the order uber alles wing of the Republican party, as typified by this asshole, and the libertarian wing seem to coexist rather peacefully. That’s mainly because the Reasonoids would rather punch hippies and pimp militias than deal with these assholes.
Michael
I’ve been noticing this meme showing up this week. A attribute it to being the last gasp of the right wing boomers in defending the indefensible.
Next thing up will be the defense of William Calley and the My Lai massacre as being “the natural and understandable reaction by young men in stressful combat situations that were made worse by the spineless weakness of liberals. While the Army actions weren’t commendable, some of the dead families were undoubtedly communist, and brought it upon themselves. The Calley court martial was a travesty – brave warriors shouldn’t be second guessed like that”.
America, Fuck Yeah!
Sandlapper
“that in fact they lacked the courage of their puerile, epigonic Marxist convictions.”
No, Mr. Cheeks, you are wrong, you fucking asshole. They lacked GUNS.
New Yorker
This guy is ripping off John’s idea for using song lyrics as post titles.
Hmm, once upon a time, wasn’t it the right in this country that would howl whenever some apologist for communism would point out that, yes, they had to kill a bunch of people to make the system work, but it was for a greater good?
Anyway, let’s play “crazy right-wing mad libs”:
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when Lithuanian independence protesters confront armed Red Army paratroopers.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. Premier Gorbachev fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the Red Army at the request of the Lithuanian Communist Party. It is interesting to note, in looking back that Baltic pro-independence rioting started to decline not long after the storming of the Vilnius TV tower.
New Yorker
For those not sure what I’m referencing, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events_%28Lithuania%29
tomvox1
I like how this asshole throws this in at the end, almost like a juvenile taunt. This makes the whole post distill down to something along the lines of:
“Not only did Big Daddy kick your ass and justifiably murder a few of your anti-war privileged hippy punk friends in his legitimate governmental role of restoring Order and teaching you a Very Valuable Lesson but after you saw your friends murdered, you didn’t even have the balls to go all Weather Underground and shit for your Utopian beliefs. At least then I would have respected you. Pussies. Now, those guys at Ruby Ridge, on the other hand, had cajones and that was a prime example of criminal government overreach…”
Charming.
Linda Featheringill
@New Yorker:
Stalin:Marx::Teaparty member:Jesus
Joel
It’s like this guy wants a starring role in Neil Young’s song.
What a douche. See him in hell.
Mumphrey
It makes me think of Judge Smails in Caddyshack: “I’ve sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. I didn’t want to do it; felt I owed it to them.”
Brien Jackson
@Michael:
Meh, I think there’s something to be said that such atrocities ARE a natural result of dropping a bunch of 18-21 year old men into a situation like Vietnam. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be punished for it, but I don’t think the idea that terrible atrocities and massive suffering are not natrual elements of warfare has done humanity any favors in the past 30 years.
greennotGreen
I marched in antiwar demonstrations in the early late sixties/early seventies. I didn’t support the violent overthrow of the government. I just wanted my country to quit fighting an illegal and unnecessary war.
The day the Kent State students died, something in me died as well, and probably in a lot of other young, idealistic liberals. I had believed that Americans were essentially good and would understand the righteousness of our cause if they were simply made aware. After Kent State, I believed instead that Americans would do anything to avoid having an uncomfortable awareness forced upon them, even to the point of killing their own young.
Maybe the demonstrations did die down, but it wasn’t from fear; it was from hopelessness.
FlipYrWhig
By the same token, I suppose puerile Catholic intellectuals don’t have the courage to burn heretics.
Comrade Dread
In all fairness, it’s not like they’re even real people, just Dirty F***ing Hippies.
Got to break a few eggs.
stuckinred
@Michael: The pro-Calley sentiment is, and always has been, fully present. Just like John O Neil and the swiftboaters this shit will never go away. Take it to the bank.
Remfin
While the actual destruction, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘freedom fighters’ confront the Imperial Navy.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. Lord Darth Vader fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the Death Star at the request of the Emperor of the Galactic Empire. It is interesting to note, in looking back that planetary rebellions against the Empire started to decline not long after the destruction of Alderaan.
Too nerdy?
DonkeyKong
Now if the guard had raped the college protesters before shooting them it would have been double plus good so sayeth the Lord!
Cathie from Canada
As the sign said at another campus dorm after Kent State: “They can’t kill us all.”
I wonder if this writer realizes that, of the four killed at Kent State, two or three were not actually protesting anything that day but were just walking by?
Amanda in the South Bay
This is from one of those crazy First Things blog that Larison and Sullivan turned me onto.
Arrgh, again, just because Larison and Sullivan like it, doesn’t mean its ok. There are definite limits (esp with Larison) to their reasonable conservativeness.
Besides, I know FT has, in the past several years, published one prominent article by Dr. Paul McHugh, a leading transphobic bigot who did a lot of work to get Johns Hopkins’ gender clinic shut down and is one of the most hateful people out there.
Jesus himself can return in glory on a fucking unicorn telling me to read FT or go to hell, and I would still not read the magazine.
Lisa K.
“it’s unfortunate that the National Guard killed innocent people, but you have to admit that the overall effect of killing these innocent people was good.”
Mindset of the advocate of a police state. Terrorize them so we can keep doing whatever the fuck we want.
amdaeupfakename
What they should have mentioned, if they were to do the research which is doubtful, is that public opinion was on the side of the soldiers to shoot the students at this point. Laws were being enacted to counter the student threat and this is what they should have mentioned as the reasoning behind the shooting but that would lean to close to using populist sentiment and away from the strong government theme they are going for.
“A May 1969 Gallup poll showed that campus unrest was seen as the nation’s leading problem, ahead of even the Viet Nam War. Average Americans wanted this rebellion put to a halt, at any cost. Polling after the Kent State shootings on May 4, 1970 would show that the public believed even more students should have been shot. In the end student rebellion had gone too far for the average American. Within three years America had gone from seeing its first act of campus arson or bombing to seeing 174 from the fall ’69 to spring ’70 semester. This was simply too much for the public to take. “
Lisa K.
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Contradiction in terms. They simply don’t exist anymore.
stuckinred
@greennotGreen: This is where I have trouble with some of the people at FDL. I was in the streets after I came home from Vietnam and saw how the hardcore left co-opted people like you. Some people would like nothing better than to get a bunch of folks hurt in order to further their “cause”. Remember the last scene in “In Dubious Battle”?
Joel
@New Yorker:
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘demonstrators and protesters’ confront armed members of the Peoples Liberation Army.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. The politburo fulfilled its obligation to maintain order, in calling up the PLA at the request of the Mayor of Beijing. It is interesting to note, in looking back that student anti-war rioting started to decline not long after Tiananmen (and the shootings at Lhasa). It appears that those Chinese college students advocating ‘democracy’ had no stomach for revolution.
Cacti
Scratch a conservative and find a fascist underneath.
While teabagger types like to yammer about the constitution, most of them privately pine for a police state to brutalize hippies, darkies, and other undesirables.
frankdawg
I clearly recall speaking with the principal of my high school, _DR_ Gritner (a “good Democrat” & state representative in his off hours) about a moment of silence & being told to get the fuck out of his office.
I am sure that protests did not die down & there were some very large ones in the early 70’s. I remember police in MN complaining of running low on tear gas the summer of 72 I think.
But what it really did was set the stage for violent response. The weather underground was not as much a result of the war but of the violent actions taken against anti-war protesters.
The Grand Panjandrum
While I think it is unfortunate for any law enforcement officer’s family, you do have to admit that killing one or two cops (or National Guardsmen) now and again, keeps them from from forgetting who they protect and serve.
Riggsveda
Don’t know if many of you are old enough to remember the zeitgeist of the day back then, but people fucking loved that those goddamn hippies got what was coming to them. My own father stood by the decision to open fire on them, and every salt-of-the-earth type plugged into the system thought it was a fine damned thing. Same people who stood up for William Calley, and there were plenty of them.
My friends and I were stunned that it could happen here (still in the throes of standard high school history and clueless as to what had happened during Wilson’s era), but I knew a lot of cynical leftists who we thought of as cranks whose arguments were vindicated that day.
Sly
@El Cid:
First Things isn’t a glibertarian blog.
It’s essentially a place for Catholic obscurantists to gather and bask in their shared DnD-like nerdlove for pre-
EnlightenmentReformation Europe. Where St. Augustine has +16 to Ecclesiology and could totally stomp Bertrand Russel’s face in with his Trollskin Boots of Apostolic Succession.The Grand Panjandrum
@Riggsveda: I remember it quite vividly. But many nice and respectable people have little problem with keeping people in line. A police state (as others above have noted) is just a shot away.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Getting off on Kent State is the fReichtard equivalent of watching vintage porn. (Police beating civil rights protesters, especially the little ‘uns, also, too, I reckon.) Meanwhile McCurdled sticks to modern warnography.
Asshole
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when Poles confront armed SS men.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. SS General Erich von dem Bach fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the SS at the request of the Fuhrer Adolf Hitler. It is interesting to note, in looking back that Polish resistance started to decline not long after the uprising was crushed and the Polish fighters were systematically executed.
New Yorker
@Joel:
Yup. Vilnius, Tienanmen, Tehran, Rangoon, you name it, unarmed people being shot by their own government is nothing new.
And neither is cowards like our man at First Things making pathetic defenses for it.
Maude
@stuckinred:
@24
All for the cause. Let other people go out there and get hurt. We’ll just stay right here, safe and sound. We will be busy telling the less thans what they should think. That’s the hard left to me.
It was an awful time.
Nice to find out after all these years that the Tonkin Gulf incident didn’t happen. Oh, oops.
The keyboard commandos that write this type of tripe about Kent State are psycopaths.
I’m glad you came back.
greennotGreen
@stuckinred:
I don’t think they co-opted people like *me* – check out the nom de net. I’m a tree-hugger who doesn’t think we sacrifice the country to a conservative forest-selling, environment-polluting, war-mongering president for eight years in order to someday hopefully elect someone from the Green party.
While there *are* people who’d like nothing better than to get people hurt to further their cause, I don’t think they’re likely hanging out at Balloon Juice.
Sorry, didn’t read “In Dubious Battle.”
Walker
He is seriously advocating order over the value of people’s lives? I know of other regimes that work that way, but I don’t want to be the first to go Godwin in this thread.
Cacti
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘demonstrators and protesters’ confront The King’s Soldiers.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. The Royal Governor fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the King’s Soldiers at the request of the Mayor of Boston, Massachussetts. It is interesting to note, in looking back that colonial agitation started to decline not long after the Boston Massacre.
Asshole
This one doesn’t really work, but fuck it:
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when Bostonians confront armed British redcoats.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. General Thomas Gage fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up four regiments of the British Army at the request of Lord Hillsborough. It is interesting to note, in looking back that American resistance started to decline not long after the Treaty of Paris.
Asshole
@Asshole:
Goddammit, someone beat me to it and did a better job of it.
Asshole
While the actual crucifixion, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘Christians’ confront armed Romans.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. Governor Pontius Pilate fulfilled his obligation to maintain order, in calling up the centurions at the request of the Caiaphas. It is interesting to note, in looking back that Christ’s proselytizing started to decline not long after Golgotha.
cleek
Law And Order types seem to think order is some kind of Platonic Good. but one man’s Law and Order is another man’s oppression. for example.
Lisa K.
@Maude:
Dick Cheney, is that you? Dave Addington?
sloan
These are the same kooks who publish Jim “dick in a box” Hoft.
And if you really want to see some wackaloon fucknuttery, check out his comment section.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Cacti: Yeah, really. To the scribbler of that piece either British troops killing colonists was a good thing or the writer would have admired the students if they’d fired back.
Maude
@Lisa K.:
Should have added hard right too, but that goes without saying.
BTW Where’s Dick Cheney? Why isn’t he out there advising on the oil spill or cement pour?
Evolutionary
@Cacti:
But still who cares for that little bit of our Constitution anyway, That ammendment wasn’t wrtten by the Founding Fathers, Amiright?
Mike G
The libertarians of my acquaintance are hypocritical and very selective in their disdain for ‘big government’. They don’t want to pay taxes but have a mean streak that makes them enthusiasts for the death penalty, outlawing abortion and head-cracking lawnorder, not to mention aggressive wars, defended by mental contortions revolving around ‘property rights’. Being that their creed exalts selfishness, they don’t care about anyone else’s rights being impinged — that’s their problem and if they can’t stand up for themselves then they get what they deserve.
Libertarianism as it is practiced is not so much a politcal philosophy as it is a tactic — they want everything organized to maximize their freedom and wealth and suppress anything they don’t like — “Freedom for me, but not for thee.”
Citizen_X
Jesus fuck, they’re celebrating the Kent State Massacre? Yeah, why not celebrate Tiananmen Square, Tlatelolco, the Boston Massacre, the Argentine “Dirty War?” Make an omelette, break a few eggs, right? End justifies the means and all that.
Kyle
So if this fucktard is cool with killing unarmed protestors, he should be totally on board if cops were to gun down teabaggers openly carrying firearms.
What? You mean it’s not really about ‘public order’ but whether he likes the politics of the protestors (or any innocent bystanders who “shoulda known better than to be there”)?
HRA
People shot by their own government is certainly nothing new except for the fact it was totally unexpected here in the US. Many of us had forefathers who had escaped that danger and came here so we, the younger, did not have to experience it .
Damn those who rewrite history for their own benefit. Even the first sentence in the quote is wrong. It was not the students confronting the National Guard.
Bob
The author of that piece, Robert “Bob” Cheeks used to comment, perhaps still does, at The League of Ordinary Gentlemen and FT. Seems that FT is now letting him contribute his original kook. It is almost impossible to describe the deeply troubling level of his thinking. However, the writing you linked gives a strong clue as to his dementia.
scudbucket
Just like Jesus said, sometimes you have to kill innocent people for the greater good.
Well, the thing is, those godless hippies tested everyone’s patience. They were rioting for three full days. The mayor, the governor, even the National Guard, showed Christlike restraint by not shooting more hippies sooner.
Citizen_X
So is he saying respects the Weather Underground, Bill Ayers, the Panthers, the SLA, the Red Army Faction for following their revolutionary rhetoric to the bloody end, or is he just making another juvenile taunt?
Hmm. Tough one there.
sloan
@HRA:
There used to be a time when conservatives would agree that it’s wrong to for the government to strip people of their citizenship, throw them in a cage on a military base in Cuba or shoot them in the streets. That time has passed.
On a related note, today is the 65th anniversary of V E Day.
Silver Owl
It’s always lovely to read how conservatives, especially the men, these days find any and all excuses why killing people is the correct way. There is something seriously wrong with them mentally, morally and emotionally.
AhabTRuler
I’m not even going to bother clicking on the lick (I like to keep my arrow, y’know, clean), but does he know that the line is “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming…”?
cleek
@AhabTRuler:
maybe he’s mixing a quote from America in there.
Oz never did give nothing to Dick Nixon
That he didn’t… didn’t already have.
ruemara
@Remfin:
No no, it’s just the right set of references that a pop cultured mind can understand wtf is wrong with the original douchy statement.
licensed to kill time
Nixon Cabinet member Walter Hickel, fired over his protest of treatment of Vietnam War protesters, dies at age 90.
SGEW
@Sly:
Magnificent.
JoePo
Shorter First Things: “Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost!”
Paris
As a Catholic, its interesting how the conservatives manage to pick and choose their issues and use religious doctrine as a defense. Almost like you were choosing items from a cafeteria. Unfortunately, they keep picking the old moldy spoiled food that rots their conceptions of morality.
El Cid
As a number of people have mentioned, the following isn’t a hypothetical.
And for those who may never have heard:
America. Fuck yeah.
frankdawg
@Evolutionary:
As far as I can tell the only amendment the founding fathers wrote & actually believed is the second. All others are fake or fungible or something.
HRA
@sloan:
“There used to be a time when conservatives would agree that it’s wrong to for the government to strip people of their citizenship, throw them in a cage on a military base in Cuba or shoot them in the streets. That time has passed.
On a related note, today is the 65th anniversary of V E Day. ”
I would use the term American in the place of conservatives for it’s getting more obvious that party and/or political affiliation does not count in the rest of your sentence if the polls about Arizona’s new immigration law are to be believed.
The signicance of VE Day to me is the belief of 1st generation Americans chiefly comprising of those who fought in WWII. At least it’s true about my relatives, their friends, co-workers, etc.
Liberty60
@mistermix:
I have been saying for quite a while that a collision is coming, when some bright young flack in the DEA, EEOC or EPA or some other enforcement agency runs into an old chum at the NSA at a government conference somewhere, and they agree that the environmental laws and anti-discrimination laws could be so much better enforced if they had the ability to read corporate email, rifle through bank accounts, and seize property on a whim.
This weeks argument from Mayor Bloomberg about gun control= WAR ON TERRA was the first shot of this, and the screeching sound you heard was the wheels of Lindsey Graham’s brain locking up.
burnspbesq
DougJ:
Say what, now? Perhaps I’m a bit dense, but this looks to me like a complete non sequitur. And a cheap shot, to boot. Care to elaborate?
Lisa K.
@Maude:
That must be too hypocritical even for him. Surely the man has some shame…
ppcli
@burnspbesq:
I believe it’s prompted by the idea that First Things is a Catholic blog. (I had always thought of it as one, but I observe, upon checking, that their “about us” blurb indicates they are multi-religious.)
Amanda in the South Bay
@ppcli:
I would consider FT to be nominally a very conservative (thought perhaps not traditional) Catholic blog, given the fact that Neuhaus was a conservative Catholic priest, and they do regularly give prominent conservative Catholic voices a lot of prominence.
That said, if you may have heard of a book published several years ago by the conservative Catholic apologist Peter Kreeft called “Ecumenical Jihad,” that also describes FT-its a mouthpiece for conservative types from all denominations (and I think a few Jews as well).
I vaguely remember one issue having a prominent byline (tag? whatever) for Avery Cardinal Dulles, and only fucking conservative Catholics would probably give a shit what he has to say.
Kay Shawn
@amdaeupfakename:
Yes, we brought my sister down from Kent the night of May 4, and she’d been out in the crowd, and was luckily in the section that split off and was not shot at. I took her to school with me the next day to talk to my classes [I was high school senior, she a college frosh] and several TEACHERS said, “Should have shot them all.” This of course, meant my sister, too.
I don’t live in Ohio anymore.
russell
My wife is a Kent State grad, and was on campus the day of the shooting. She was walking from class to her work-study job in the library when the shooting occurred. She did not see it, but she heard it. She knew Alison Krauss, one of the four who were killed.
There had, in fact, been acts of vandalism and arson in Kent in the days leading up to the shooting. The expansion of the Vietnam war into Cambodia had come to light, people believed (correctly) that they had been misled by Nixon and the folks running the war. People were pissed off.
It was, perhaps, not unreasonable for Rhodes to call in the Guard. Don’t know if it was necessary, it probably was not, but it wasn’t out of the question.
Shooting live rounds into a crowd of unarmed students, different story. There was no reason for it, no need for it, and no excuse for it. It should not have happened.
The protestors were by and large not looking to overthrow anything. They didn’t want to go half way around the world and fight, kill and die in a war they didn’t believe in. If they were puerile, it’s because they were, in fact, kids. We’re all puerile when we’re 19.
What’s Cheeks’ excuse?
I hope to never meet Robert C Cheeks, because I find myself hating the man. Four young people shot dead, and his best comment is this smug, cheaply sarcastic tut-tutting drivel. Fuck him and fuck First Things.
AhabTRuler
Some of these guys were at KS, too.
russell
And, as it happens, immediately after the shootings, quite a number of the students there wanted to respond by attacking the Guardsmen. They had no weapons, they had nothing to protect them from the Guardsmen’s guns, but they were more than ready to go after the armed Guardsmen, who had just demonstrated their willingness to fire on them, with nothing but their bare hands.
And what a jolly scene that would have been, no?
They were talked down by a number of Kent faculty and persuaded to disperse rather than start a fight which would have certainly led to many of their deaths. For which, we should all be thankful.
I’d like to know if Robert C Cheeks has ever demonstrated similar physical courage, or a similar willingness to put his very own personal physical ass on the line in the name of anything he believes in.
What do you think the over/under is on that?
TenguPhule
First we need to punch some “conservatives” in the neck, preferably old white and rich.
Then hang a few teabaggers and dangle their rotting corpses from the lightposts.
Law and order, baby!
DougJ
@burnspbesq:
First Things is one of the most prominent conservative Catholic online presences.
Zuzu's Petals
Crossposted from FT.
From the report of the President’s Commission on Campus Unrest:
” … The indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable.
The National Guardsmen on the Kent State campus were armed with loaded M-l rifles, high-velocity weapons with a horizontal range of almost two miles. As they confronted the students, all that stood between a guardsman and firing was the flick of a thumb on the safety mechanism, and the pull of an index finger on the trigger. When firing began, the toll taken by these lethal weapons was disastrous.
The Guard fired amidst great turmoil and confusion, engendered in part by their own activities. But the guardsmen should not have been able to kill so easily in the first place. The general issuance of loaded weapons to law enforcement officers engaged in controlling disorders is never justified except in the case of armed resistance that trained sniper teams are unable to handle. This was not the case at Kent State, yet each guardsman carried a loaded M-l rifle.
This lesson is not new. The National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders and the guidelines of the Department of the Army set it out explicitly.
No one would have died at Kent State if this lesson had been learned by the Ohio National Guard. Even if the guardsmen faced danger, it was not a danger that called for lethal force. The 61 shots by 28 guardsmen certainly cannot be justified. Apparently, no order to fire was given, and there was inadequate fire control discipline on Blanket Hill. The Kent State tragedy must mark the last time that, as a matter of course, loaded rifles are issued to guardsmen confronting student demonstrators. Our entire report attempts to define the lessons of Kent State, lessons that the Guard, police, students, faculty, administrators, government at all levels, and the American people must learn-and begin, at once, to act upon. We commend it to their attention.”
Bob
@burnspbesq: For what’s it worth, Robert Cheeks is Catholic. As I say above, I’m familiar with him from other sites on the net. No, he does not speak for all Catholics but the fact that FT lets him publish at all tell you a lot.
Zuzu's Petals
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Dang. Itals fail.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
Yes. SRTSS.
Zuzu's Petals
@Bob:
Gateway Pundit, The Anchoress, Robert Cheeks … a stellar lineup there.
wrb
First Things has taken down the post and the comments.
TooManyJens
First Things seems to have taken the post down.
Sirkowski
Did the post gets deleted?
debbie
@russell:
There was unrest at Ohio State as well. Students were tear-gassed (someone’s German Shepard died). Rhodes sent the National Guard in there too. I remember a picture on the front page of the newspaper which showed a tank rolling down High Street.
scav
Dare we suggest they lacked the courage of their religio testosterone cypionate fueled opinions?
Jrod, Slayer of Phoenix
Google doesn’t have the article cached, it seems. Did anyone save a copy?
Lou From Here
I just tried to follow the link. There are now no posts at that blog with today’s date.
I was at Kent this week. Sad, horrible, cleansing, helpful, necessary. I was a high school senior in Skokie, Illinois and politically active in May of 1970, and before.
The candlelight procession on the night of May 3d is helpful. But crying is easy for me when I think about May 4th or see the pictures of my fellow students.
It could have been me.
wrb
@Jrod, Slayer of Phoenix:
Still on my clipboard, remarkably. The article, not the comment thread.
urbanmeemaw
@Riggsveda: My second cousin ran the food service for a small college in southwestern Ohio at the time of the shootings. A contingent of students from that college participated in a march protesting the shootings. My cousin provided the marchers with food, and received death threats, along with the usual accusations of being a “commie”. What strikes me is that the shootings at Jackson (a black school) were not discussed nearly as much as those at Kent State. But I do agree with Riggsveda. Those were very ugly, scary times.
Jrod, Slayer of Phoenix
@wrb: Thanks! At least this idiocy is saved somewhere.
wrb
@Jrod, Slayer of Phoenix:
Rather beautiful in its perfection of ugliness.
de stijl
Re: First Things throwing the Cheeks post and the comments down the memory hole. Very Ministry of Truth.
My armchair psychiatrist diagnosis is that the Tienanmen Square et al. comparisons cut to the bone, Cheeks did not want to try to defend his position, so the whole thing was just disappeared. In fact…
It appears that First Things and Mr. Cheeks advocating ‘the maintenance of order’ had no stomach for criticism, no yearning for the barricades of debate, that in fact they lacked the courage of their puerile, epigonic Stalinist convictions.
Bob
Below is the only address I could find as a possible way to contact these chicken-shits. I’m going to drop them a mail, and yes I know I’m wasting my precious time.
Editorial Office: 35 East 21st Street, 6th floor
New York, NY 10010
212-627-1985
[email protected]
spaceman spiff
Alright, let’s get really ironic here, considering the nature of the publication Firts Things:
While the actual shooting, and ensuing deaths and injuries were unfortunate this result is not unknown when ‘demonstrators and protesters’ confront Her Majesty’s troops.
The responsibilities of government are limited and few. One of these is the maintenance of order. The Royal Ulster Constabulary fulfilled its obligation to maintain order, in calling up the British Army at the request of the Mayor of Derry. It is interesting to note, in looking back that Republican agitation started to decline not long after Bloody Sunday.
racrecir
The debate continues:
New analysis of 40-year-old recording of Kent State shootings.
The Ohio National Guardsmen who fired on students and antiwar protesters at Kent State University on May 4, 1970 were given an order to prepare to shoot, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audio tape of the event.
“Guard!” says a male voice on the recording, which two forensic audio experts enhanced and evaluated at the request of The Plain Dealer. Several seconds pass. Then, “All right, prepare to fire!”
“Get down!” someone shouts urgently, presumably in the crowd. Finally, “Guard! . . . ” followed two seconds later by a long, booming volley of gunshots. The entire spoken sequence lasts 17 seconds.
From the comments:
“Had these hippies of yesteryear NOT burned down the Kent ROTC building and acted like fools, no one would have died. End of the day… Students should have been in school. Put yourself in harms way, you have the potential to get harmed.”
“Logic 101…… if there were not anarchy and destruction of property , both public and private ; had the civil authorities felt overwhelmed and in need of Federal assistance , none of this would have ever transpired. The weather underground , SDS , who were complicit with foreign powers in acts of treason, are ultimately responsible for the deaths of innocents. The Krause malcontents had the perps there at the rally for retribution , but dropped the ball. They , like liberal leftists in general , have their minds made up , and do not like being confused with objectivity or facts.”
racrecir
I guess my post disappeared…briefly:
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/05/new_analysis_of_40-year-old_re.html
memory
I would like to applaud First Things for printing this.
We all know this is what conservatives really think. And we should all be aware of what conservatism is capable.
Derek
@spaceman spiff:
I love it!
Kit
Annnnd the page is gone! Damn.