Not sure, but after listening to the Italians atonally grope at their anthem, I’m fine with it.
2.
stevie314159
Arizona outlawed Spanish language songs wherever they’re sung.
3.
fucen tarmal
the spanish national anthem i believe does not have lyrics, there are many tawdry versions of lyrics for it, but none are recognized as “official”
4.
someguy
Because not all people are raving nationalists like Americans are? Because they were too busy blowing their vuvuzelas? Because the words are in spanish, and nobody speaks spanish any more?
5.
Violet
They’re afraid if they sing in Spanish they’ll be asked for their papers?
6.
Brian J
People are still upset over the gay marriage decision? It’s a warning that if they don’t get their deficits in order, something bad will happen? They are still angry over the Inquisition?
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: When I was in Barcelona in 2000 I walked up to a street sweeper and started asking directions in Spanish. When I greeted him initially he answered my Spanish with Catalan. When I asked for directions for a tour bus, he switched to Spanish. That was about my sole experience with Catalan nationalism.
When in doubt, just say, “Visca el Barça” and you’ll be everyone’s friend.
16.
Randy P
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: When I visited Barcelona in 2000, the locals were happy to converse with me in my painful Spanish, thank the FSM. But pretty much all official signage, museum plaques, etc were in Catalan. I didn’t get any hint that it was an issue though I know Catalunians are supposed to be fiercely nationalistic.
In the French movie L’Auberge Espagnol, the foreign students show up for their first day in class in Barcelona, all ready to cope with Spanish, only to discover the course is being taught in Catalan by a professor who refuses to speak Spanish.
@Randinho: Hey, we might have been there at the same time! I really liked the Old City, but I was more interested in the actually ancient cathedral than in the 19th-century Gaudi version they were so proud of.
Looks like the Swiss are following the DPRK game plan.
19.
Yelli
That yellow card against Switz seemed a little harsh. I am watching this in Germany and even the German announcers can’t figure out why. Is my angle bad?
20.
SRW1
Jebus, Senderos hurting himself while taking the ball from one of his own. Guess Wenger was right after all.
21.
mcd410x
Going in to the last debut matchday, this tournament has been a horror show.
Several reasons, any or all may be right or wrong:
A) Herbert Chapman introduced a third defenseman during the 30s, and ever since the progression has been toward more defense (teams now usually play with four). The Champions League, the competition sporting the best European clubs, showcases constricted, defensive football. The higher the stakes, the less adventurous teams become. This shows itself in the formation teams present.
The favorite formation of Jose Mourinho, nicknamed The Special One, is the 4-3-3 which is now echoed around the world. Or at least it’s called 4-3-3 (four in defense, three in midfield, three in attack). In reality, it’s a 4-5-1 which is as defensive as you can get without going the 5-4-1 route that NoKo took against Brazil yesterday. If you’ve only got one person forward, it’s tough to score. Especially …
B) … if the ball is a problem. Not talking about the knuckling or fluttering the ball does, but how — because of the design or the high altitude — the ball goes a long, long way.
It’s tough enough to connect with that one forward if the ball is normal, but it’s impossible if the ball is flying uncontrollably over his head on its way to the opposing goalkeeper, or beyond.
C) Not very good teams. I understand wanting to get as many participants as possible — didn’t the NCAA just discuss increasing the basketball tournament to 96 teams? It’s good for business. Not so good for the level of play because, instead of taking a flyer and going for it, the same teams play even more defensively than the ones who could score if only they were interested!
D) Teams don’t play as well outside their home continent. Like Japan/SoKorea in 2002, European teams are having a rough go of it. Three wins, five draws, three losses (with Esp-Sui to play). Yuk. Ordinarily, you’d expect the host continent’s team to pick up the slack, but African football is experiencing a down cycle: The Nigerian keeper saved his team from decimation while Cameroon looked like they had just met in the tunnel entering the stadium.
What does all this mean? Horrible, defensive games and everything is still up for grabs, which I guess is the point. The U.S. for instance. My initial impression: We had played pretty well against an organized, talented side. Didn’t create too many genuine scoring opportunities, but only gave up one goal even though the game got a bit stretched. My impression now: We actually played football when most other teams look cautious, immature — you know, the way we used to look. Hell, we looked pretty darn good.
Which means we’ll probably go out and lose to Slovenia Friday.
@TR: I blame FIFA’s obsession with creating a “perfectly” *shaped* ball. As anyone who is familiar with golf balls knows, the surface texture is just as important as the regularity of its shape when it comes to making a ball which will fly true (i.e. in a stable fashion).
I can’t say for certain, but I will venture a guess that England’s goalie was a victim of this effect.
24.
SLKRR
Haven’t visited Catalunya yet, but on the other side of the country I got to hear a bit of the galego language. Oddly enough, it sounds pretty much the same as portunhol, which is what you get when Brazilians think they are speaking Spanish just because they change their accent… ;-)
25.
mcd410x
Rob Smyth of The Guardian on the first half of this game: “Permission to weep for the future of football.”
Edt: I’m going to wash my eyes out with soap after that 45 minutes.
They could fix it pretty easily if they wanted to… just get rid of the offsides rule and you’d see a lot more goals scored. ;-)
27.
Violet
@Captain Goto:
Posted this last night, but Eriksson is calling for a summit on the World Cup ball. I know there are always complaints about the ball, but they seem particularly bad this time.
28.
Violet
@mcd410x:
I’m enjoying The Guardian live blogs. Informative and entertaining.
@SLKRR: Over at The Guardian minute-by-minute report, they’re discussing how to solve this crisis. People — Englishmen! — are actually bringing up only playing with 10 a-side.
On the upside, America can go back to ignoring the sport, which is a-ok with me.
35.
El Cruzado
FWIW, the Spanish anthem was given some lyrics during Franco’s regime. After he died, everyone pretended they never happened (we were THIS close to opening a portal to the Great Beyond from such Corny Awfulness).
Of course, alternative versions existed, better not used in polite company.
36.
Stroszek
Ugh… this is a disaster.
37.
TR
Insane.
38.
mcd410x
And that’s what happens when you don’t try to score. Sometimes you get monumentally lucky and nab one.
That’s why the football has sucked at this World Cup. Every ridiculous defensive tactician’s wet dream come true.
I can generally understand Castilian, but I can’t speak it at all. And while I can speak Brazilian Portuguese fluently, Portuguese from Portugal just leaves me scratching my head… where did all the vowels go?
42.
mcd410x
As a coach determined to play Arsenal to a draw once said: If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns.
@Randinho: Guess that answers my earlier question… Torres is in.
44.
TR
Great googily moogily, Spain can’t buy a goal.
45.
handsmile
To those bemoaning the lack of offensive fireworks in this and other first game matches, I have to ask: how often do you watch the home-and-away stages of the Champions League? In that competition, with teams realizing that the result is based on 180 minutes, the first game is notoriously conservative in its tactics, i.e., defenses are hunkered down, provisional offensive schemes are probing for weaknesses. The key for both teams is to avoid this first-game loss (and for the home team not to allow “away” goals.)
That strategy seems in evidence in most of the group stage matches I’ve seen. A loss is any team’s first game pretty much stamps the return ticket home. Play for a tie – and if great fortune befalls – a win. This would seem mandatory for nations not among FIFA’s elite.
With that tentative first match out of the way, the remaining group stage games should prove more satisfying for those who require goals as their measure of entertaining football.
One point to add to mcd410x’s thoughtful analysis above, perhaps the somewhat uninspired play of many of the game’s marquee players thus far (save Messi) may be attributable to the punishing toll taken by the number of games played for their professional clubs and domestic league competitions.
At this point that’s not their worst problem. Switzerland is raining shots on goal–and should have had a goal on that one that came off the post.
47.
calling all toasters
Switzerland’s secret? More cowbell!
48.
Martin
I just turned the game on 10 minutes ago (PST) and was shocked to see Spain losing. Nice to a bit more action in this cup but in the last 10 minutes there have been 3 shots off the frame.
Maybe we need to get North Korea out there to give defense lessons.
49.
shirt
Can these comments be aranged alphabetically instead of reversed chronological?
50.
Martin
Ok, the ESPN3 highlight player is really fucking cool. Some games I don’t get that whole bar on the bottom, other games I do.
51.
mcd410x
@Violet: Yeah, The Guardian really turned the running blog into an art form. Much imitated.
52.
OriGuy
I loved the old cathedral in Barcelona. I got there on Sunday, when everyone was dancing the sardana. They weren’t doing it for the tourists, they were doing it because they were Catalan and they’ve always done it.
I didn’t get to Galicia, but I’ve since gotten hooked on the music. It’s very Celtic, with some Iberian influences.
And that’s what happens when you don’t try to score. Sometimes you get monumentally lucky and nab one.
I have two problems with football, which I think are related. As I do every four years (and occasionally in between), I’m watching, trying to get into it, and still failing.
The first problem is hard for me to articulate, but basically comes down to the foot being a very ineffective, inefficient instrument for directing something. Aside from any question about the ball, it’s too difficult to be sufficiently accurate to have things develop with speed. For an ice hockey fan, football just seems painfully slow.* Making the pitch so big doesn’t help matters.
The second, related to the first, is that I find that it’s too easy for an inferior team to completely clog everything up and turn it into a game of pure chance. I like upsets as much as the next guy, but they should come from the winning team actually being better on a particular day, and not because an inferior team can reliably prevent a better one from scoring. It’s like the hockey of the late 1990s, with every bad team deciding to play the way the New Jersey Devils did (and did well), but much, much worse. Football needs to find a way to open things up.**
Fortunately, I didn’t watch the first half. I didn’t get up until about 10am, so I only got to see the last 25 minutes of Spain/Switzerland. For the first fifteen of those, it was very nice to watch. The Swiss were clearly playing defensively, but not like other teams I’ve watched. Most of them usually just get the ball and kick it as far down the pitch as they can, counting on it being too big for the team behind to get it all the way to the goal. The Swiss actually seemed interested in maintaining possession and at least gave a thought to scoring again themselves. Sure, if they ended up in a tight spot, they punted, but it wasn’t their first option. The last five minutes of regulation and all of penalty time, though, turned into the kind of football I dread.
I don’t know enough about the game. Is there a way to make it such that being completely defensive doesn’t work so well?
*I don’t inherently dislike slow games. I’m a huge baseball fan and increasingly like cricket. Taking five days to play a match, now that’s slow. Those two sports are built around the idea of being slow, though. Football has all the trappings of a game that wants to be fast, but it just isn’t.
**Though exactly why the billions of football fans should give my opinion a lot of consideration remains unresolved.
63.
Face
Uh…..another 1-0 game? This has to be the lowest scoring first round of games ever.
The second, related to the first, is that I find that it’s too easy for an inferior team to completely clog everything up and turn it into a game of pure chance.
This is also what makes soccer such a great game. Desire can, on its day, overcome talent. But the Swiss didn’t win because of their North Korean- or even South African-like desire or a even because of a moment of brilliance — I would be cool with either. They won on a set of lucky, pinball bounces that wound up in the net.
It’s also one thing to play negative, immature football when you’re trying to survive the drop in your domestic league, but these teams — and most of them are playing this way which is why the tournament has thus far sucked — are trying to win the World Cup. At least in theory they’re trying.
As I said earlier, as a coach determined to play Arsenal to a draw once said: If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns.
Let me ask you this: do you find pitcher’s duels in baseball unexciting? Did you find this year’s NCAA lax championship game unexciting? I’m willing to bet the answer is no on both counts. Well-played, low-scoring games are inherently exciting BECAUSE they are low-scoring, not in spite of it. The closeness of the score magnifies the importance of every play, because any play can be decisive.
History repeats itself as Spain chokes to a crappier team in South Africa. [cackles]
70.
Der Blindschtiller
I live in Geneva and was listening to the game at work this afternoon. I had to run home shortly before the end and, as I was on the street, people started rushing out into the street to start celebrating. This place is going nuts to the point you’d think they had won the whole thing.
The guy across the street from us has a Spanish flag hanging from his window. The non-stop celebrating must really be rubbing salt in his wounds.
I’ll be drunkenly pulling for the USA on Friday with my equally tanked countrymen. Fun, fun, fun…
Well, I’ll have a drink in honor of the Swiss, USians’ compatriots in helping Spain retain their status as underachievers.
Still wanna visit Barcelona though.
72.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal
@burnspbesq: Yes on the pitcher’s duel in baseball; no on the lacrosse final, because I find lacrosse to be the most terminally boring sport this side of basketball. Or maybe even the other side of basketball.
You missed my point, though. Yes, low scoring games can be very exciting. However, my problem with football isn’t that it’s low scoring. If you go back and read my original post, I don’t think you’ll find a single complaint to that effect. My problem is that it’s too easy for an inferior side to bring the game to a halt and turn it into a contest of luck.
I have zero problem with the game being low scoring. I don’t have a problem with it being too easy to play defensively. I don’t even have a problem with it being possible for an inferior side to play defensively and win. As I said above, it’s TOO EASY to do it in football for my tastes. I like the basic idea of the game, and I really do try to get into it. It’s hard to do, though.
As I said, I didn’t have a problem with the way I saw Switzerland playing for the first fifteen minutes I watched this morning. That was exciting. However, when I see teams protecting a lead by just kicking the ball as far down the field as they can and making the other team go the full length, they do not deserve to win. I’d like to know if there’s a way to stop that from being an effective tactic.
This is also what makes soccer such a great game. Desire can, on its day, overcome talent. But the Swiss didn’t win because of their North Korean- or even South African-like desire or a even because of a moment of brilliance—I would be cool with either. They won on a set of lucky, pinball bounces that wound up in the net.
I didn’t see the Swiss goal. However, scoring on a series of crazy pinball like bounces isn’t the problem. In order to score on one of those, you actually have to be trying to score, and, in the long run, the team that gets more of them is going to win a disproportionate amount of the time.
Yes, desire can overcome talent, but if it can do so with any frequency without actually playing better on that particular day, that’s a problem. What I see when I watch football is too many teams that aren’t really trying to score. Worse, I don’t see them being punished often enough for that lack.
Until the last ten minutes, the Swiss team I was watching wasn’t playing like that. They were trying to keep control of the ball, advance it forward, and create something at the offensive end. They got pretty boring right towards the end, but I’m okay with that. Going into a shell for the last few minutes is fine, so long as you’ve been playing to win before that.
I guess my point is that I would like to see something change so that teams that play defensively still have to play more like the Swiss.
I wouldn’t describe it the way you did. I watched the entire second half and thought that both teams played well in their own way. The Spanish attack in the last 25 minutes was withering but the Swiss did not give in. And they moved the ball forward whenever they got the chance. They had several good runs at the Spanish goal late in the game.
I was very impressed by Spain’s passing; they are obviously a talented team and the superior one to boot (hah!). Luck plays a significant role in soccer; any sport with frequent rebounds is going to have this. The ball is big and the players bunch in the area so ricochets happen all the time. This introduces an annoying degree of randomness but it’s just part of soccer.
I think the structure of the tournament drives playing for a tie. Why not single elimination?
nzz.ch has a photo gallery up, including photos of crowds milling around in the middle of Langstrasse in Zurich. Gotta say, those guys need some instruction in the fine art of post-game rioting celebration. No broken windows, nothing on fire, no mounted police. Send them all to the University of Maryland for basketball season.
77.
eric
I think that people watch football for moments of sheer brilliance that shine even brighter next to most of the drudgery. I watched Chile this morning and Sanchez was godlike everytime he touched the ball. He controlled the ball like no one else out there and it was breathtaking everytime he attacked. When the ball was on the other side, it quickly found its way over to his side. Extraordinary playing.
I will watch every Chile game from here on out.
The English — and Rooney — lacked this particular trait.
eric
78.
SB Jules
The only people who know the words were journalists covering Pau Gasol at the Laker game.
Lollll I can’t believe how many people are stating that sincerely elsewhere. It’s absolutely amazing how they get kneejerk cultural-relative about it all.
I don’t know enough about the game. Is there a way to make it such that being completely defensive doesn’t work so well?
Of course there is. Depending on the exact situation there are several. Mostly they involve attacking through the weak areas/players to unbalance the stronger areas. Then using superior movement and vision to exploit the unbalancing and make a good chance. This generally requires quite a bit communication and teamwork, which is why halftime is often a game changer because then the weak players/areas can be more easily identified.
Another way is to press the defending players immediately after they get the ball. This would lead to turnovers (particularly in play TOs) that almost always leave the defense in a much worse position than normal.
An excellent example of how to defeat a bunker-type defense is the 1967 Champions Cup Final where Celtic beat the experts of catenaccio from Inter Milan 2-1 (after giving up an early goal)
England’s goalkeeper was a victim of not being smart enough to do what every Little League infielder learns their first week fielding ground balls in practice…put your body, as well as your arm in front of the grounder or it’s a lot more likely to squirt through.
I feel sorry for Robert Green in the same way I felt sorry for Bill Buckner. For screwing up royally on a big stage. The error was undeniably Green’s and, frankly, the ball had nothing to do with it.
Howard had no problems dealing with the ball at all, and nor have plenty of others so far. Worth noting that Green almost made a mess of it on the Altidore shot in the Second half as well.
To add to this, a bit, Robert Green played to form in the USA match. He stunk up the joint for West Ham this year. One of Green’s teammates on that team, Jonathan Spector, who had played his way into a likely starting role on the US team through the previous two years, was so badly abused at left back this season for West Ham that he didn’t get a sniff at starting for the US team, and likely won’t, with Cherundolo playing the way he did. If Jonathan Spector was playing so badly in the West Ham horror show he wasn’t deemed worth starting by Bob Bradley, why did Capello think Green would?
One other thing to think about with regards to goalkeepers. Ask any English person who played the game, and almost universally, they will tell you that on youth teams, the least athletic, least talented kid usually gets stuck in goal.
That isn’t true in the US. Quite often, very athletic players play goalkeeper on US youth teams. Tim Howard, the current US starter, was a high school standout in basketball, who could have earned a basketball scholarship, but was bound and determined to play soccer.
Couple that with the fact that US kids grow up also playing team sports (basketball, football, baseball) that require hand eye coordination in a way that outfield positions in soccer don’t, and you go a long way toward understanding why there have 3-4 starting US goalkeepers at any given time in the English Premier League through much of the last decade.
It’s a good thing too. A US edge in goalkeepers has enabled the team to rise above their general talent level on the international stage a number of times. Saturday was a prime example of that.
Quite often, very athletic players play goalkeeper on US youth teams. Tim Howard, the current US starter, was a high school standout in basketball, who could have earned a basketball scholarship, but was bound and determined to play soccer.
Howard confirmed as much in a SI interview re playing sports w/ strong hand-eye coordination and goalie and how the English clearly don’t “get it” when they, say, try to pass a pigskin ball.
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TR
Not sure, but after listening to the Italians atonally grope at their anthem, I’m fine with it.
stevie314159
Arizona outlawed Spanish language songs wherever they’re sung.
fucen tarmal
the spanish national anthem i believe does not have lyrics, there are many tawdry versions of lyrics for it, but none are recognized as “official”
someguy
Because not all people are raving nationalists like Americans are? Because they were too busy blowing their vuvuzelas? Because the words are in spanish, and nobody speaks spanish any more?
Violet
They’re afraid if they sing in Spanish they’ll be asked for their papers?
Brian J
People are still upset over the gay marriage decision? It’s a warning that if they don’t get their deficits in order, something bad will happen? They are still angry over the Inquisition?
Randinho
@fucen tarmal: Bingo. No words to the anthem.
SP
Wiki: “It is one of the few national anthems in the world to have no official lyrics.”
cleek
if there are no words to sing, how can other people use it to gauge a stranger’s level of patriotism ?
useless!
Violet
The BBC is minimizing the vuvuzela noise.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Because Catalonia is not Spain.
When I visited Barcelona in 2005 I saw that graffiti everywhere.
I’d assume the real reason no one is singing is because there are no words.
TR
@Violet:
Have they been able to minimize the goalkeeping errors?
Violet
@TR:
Apparently their special effects are not as successful in that regard.
JenJen
Other question: So I guess Torres is benched, but is the knee injury more serious than I realized?
Randinho
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: When I was in Barcelona in 2000 I walked up to a street sweeper and started asking directions in Spanish. When I greeted him initially he answered my Spanish with Catalan. When I asked for directions for a tour bus, he switched to Spanish. That was about my sole experience with Catalan nationalism.
When in doubt, just say, “Visca el Barça” and you’ll be everyone’s friend.
Randy P
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: When I visited Barcelona in 2000, the locals were happy to converse with me in my painful Spanish, thank the FSM. But pretty much all official signage, museum plaques, etc were in Catalan. I didn’t get any hint that it was an issue though I know Catalunians are supposed to be fiercely nationalistic.
In the French movie L’Auberge Espagnol, the foreign students show up for their first day in class in Barcelona, all ready to cope with Spanish, only to discover the course is being taught in Catalan by a professor who refuses to speak Spanish.
@Randinho: Hey, we might have been there at the same time! I really liked the Old City, but I was more interested in the actually ancient cathedral than in the 19th-century Gaudi version they were so proud of.
Randinho
@JenJen: I don’t really know.
Randinho
Looks like the Swiss are following the DPRK game plan.
Yelli
That yellow card against Switz seemed a little harsh. I am watching this in Germany and even the German announcers can’t figure out why. Is my angle bad?
SRW1
Jebus, Senderos hurting himself while taking the ball from one of his own. Guess Wenger was right after all.
mcd410x
Going in to the last debut matchday, this tournament has been a horror show.
Several reasons, any or all may be right or wrong:
A) Herbert Chapman introduced a third defenseman during the 30s, and ever since the progression has been toward more defense (teams now usually play with four). The Champions League, the competition sporting the best European clubs, showcases constricted, defensive football. The higher the stakes, the less adventurous teams become. This shows itself in the formation teams present.
The favorite formation of Jose Mourinho, nicknamed The Special One, is the 4-3-3 which is now echoed around the world. Or at least it’s called 4-3-3 (four in defense, three in midfield, three in attack). In reality, it’s a 4-5-1 which is as defensive as you can get without going the 5-4-1 route that NoKo took against Brazil yesterday. If you’ve only got one person forward, it’s tough to score. Especially …
B) … if the ball is a problem. Not talking about the knuckling or fluttering the ball does, but how — because of the design or the high altitude — the ball goes a long, long way.
It’s tough enough to connect with that one forward if the ball is normal, but it’s impossible if the ball is flying uncontrollably over his head on its way to the opposing goalkeeper, or beyond.
C) Not very good teams. I understand wanting to get as many participants as possible — didn’t the NCAA just discuss increasing the basketball tournament to 96 teams? It’s good for business. Not so good for the level of play because, instead of taking a flyer and going for it, the same teams play even more defensively than the ones who could score if only they were interested!
D) Teams don’t play as well outside their home continent. Like Japan/SoKorea in 2002, European teams are having a rough go of it. Three wins, five draws, three losses (with Esp-Sui to play). Yuk. Ordinarily, you’d expect the host continent’s team to pick up the slack, but African football is experiencing a down cycle: The Nigerian keeper saved his team from decimation while Cameroon looked like they had just met in the tunnel entering the stadium.
What does all this mean? Horrible, defensive games and everything is still up for grabs, which I guess is the point. The U.S. for instance. My initial impression: We had played pretty well against an organized, talented side. Didn’t create too many genuine scoring opportunities, but only gave up one goal even though the game got a bit stretched. My impression now: We actually played football when most other teams look cautious, immature — you know, the way we used to look. Hell, we looked pretty darn good.
Which means we’ll probably go out and lose to Slovenia Friday.
someguy
@Violet:
Racists.
Captain Goto
@TR: I blame FIFA’s obsession with creating a “perfectly” *shaped* ball. As anyone who is familiar with golf balls knows, the surface texture is just as important as the regularity of its shape when it comes to making a ball which will fly true (i.e. in a stable fashion).
I can’t say for certain, but I will venture a guess that England’s goalie was a victim of this effect.
SLKRR
Haven’t visited Catalunya yet, but on the other side of the country I got to hear a bit of the galego language. Oddly enough, it sounds pretty much the same as portunhol, which is what you get when Brazilians think they are speaking Spanish just because they change their accent… ;-)
mcd410x
Rob Smyth of The Guardian on the first half of this game: “Permission to weep for the future of football.”
Edt: I’m going to wash my eyes out with soap after that 45 minutes.
SLKRR
@mcd410x:
They could fix it pretty easily if they wanted to… just get rid of the offsides rule and you’d see a lot more goals scored. ;-)
Violet
@Captain Goto:
Posted this last night, but Eriksson is calling for a summit on the World Cup ball. I know there are always complaints about the ball, but they seem particularly bad this time.
Violet
@mcd410x:
I’m enjoying The Guardian live blogs. Informative and entertaining.
Randy Paul
@SLKRR: It’s funny. I speak Castilian close to fluency, but the missus undertsands it better than me, while I speak it better than her.
Catalan is a tough language; a bit like medieval French mixed with old Spanish.
rootless_e
My continuing effort to get banned on Daily Kos
Remember when we had Obama’s back?
cleek
@Violet:
too liberal ?
@rootless_e:
very nice :)
Miss Kitka's Comrade Wayne
Ok. So now I think both teams involved in a scoreless draw should each receive 0 points.
That’ll learn ’em.
Three-nineteen
@someguy:
Don’t you mean sexists?
mcd410x
@SLKRR: Over at The Guardian minute-by-minute report, they’re discussing how to solve this crisis. People — Englishmen! — are actually bringing up only playing with 10 a-side.
On the upside, America can go back to ignoring the sport, which is a-ok with me.
El Cruzado
FWIW, the Spanish anthem was given some lyrics during Franco’s regime. After he died, everyone pretended they never happened (we were THIS close to opening a portal to the Great Beyond from such Corny Awfulness).
Of course, alternative versions existed, better not used in polite company.
Stroszek
Ugh… this is a disaster.
TR
Insane.
mcd410x
And that’s what happens when you don’t try to score. Sometimes you get monumentally lucky and nab one.
That’s why the football has sucked at this World Cup. Every ridiculous defensive tactician’s wet dream come true.
Also. Too.
Violet
What the hell is wrong with Spain?
SLKRR
Now I feel better about Brazil’s debut game. ;-)
SLKRR
@Randy Paul:
I can generally understand Castilian, but I can’t speak it at all. And while I can speak Brazilian Portuguese fluently, Portuguese from Portugal just leaves me scratching my head… where did all the vowels go?
mcd410x
As a coach determined to play Arsenal to a draw once said: If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns.
via
JenJen
@Randinho: Guess that answers my earlier question… Torres is in.
TR
Great googily moogily, Spain can’t buy a goal.
handsmile
To those bemoaning the lack of offensive fireworks in this and other first game matches, I have to ask: how often do you watch the home-and-away stages of the Champions League? In that competition, with teams realizing that the result is based on 180 minutes, the first game is notoriously conservative in its tactics, i.e., defenses are hunkered down, provisional offensive schemes are probing for weaknesses. The key for both teams is to avoid this first-game loss (and for the home team not to allow “away” goals.)
That strategy seems in evidence in most of the group stage matches I’ve seen. A loss is any team’s first game pretty much stamps the return ticket home. Play for a tie – and if great fortune befalls – a win. This would seem mandatory for nations not among FIFA’s elite.
With that tentative first match out of the way, the remaining group stage games should prove more satisfying for those who require goals as their measure of entertaining football.
One point to add to mcd410x’s thoughtful analysis above, perhaps the somewhat uninspired play of many of the game’s marquee players thus far (save Messi) may be attributable to the punishing toll taken by the number of games played for their professional clubs and domestic league competitions.
Steeplejack
@TR:
At this point that’s not their worst problem. Switzerland is raining shots on goal–and should have had a goal on that one that came off the post.
calling all toasters
Switzerland’s secret? More cowbell!
Martin
I just turned the game on 10 minutes ago (PST) and was shocked to see Spain losing. Nice to a bit more action in this cup but in the last 10 minutes there have been 3 shots off the frame.
Maybe we need to get North Korea out there to give defense lessons.
shirt
Can these comments be aranged alphabetically instead of reversed chronological?
Martin
Ok, the ESPN3 highlight player is really fucking cool. Some games I don’t get that whole bar on the bottom, other games I do.
mcd410x
@Violet: Yeah, The Guardian really turned the running blog into an art form. Much imitated.
OriGuy
I loved the old cathedral in Barcelona. I got there on Sunday, when everyone was dancing the sardana. They weren’t doing it for the tourists, they were doing it because they were Catalan and they’ve always done it.
I didn’t get to Galicia, but I’ve since gotten hooked on the music. It’s very Celtic, with some Iberian influences.
Hevia
stuckinred
The Man o’ the Match!
Steeplejack
Wow. Big win for Switzerland.
mcd410x
This is exactly what Slovenia will try to do to the U.S. Friday. I hope we deal with it better than España.
Stroszek
The sound of a billion brackets dying…
mcd410x
The moral of this morning’s activity: Don’t try to score, you won’t give up a cheap goal. #worldcuphorrorshow
JenJen
That was awesome. WTG, Schweiz!!
burnspbesq
Can you call yourself a serious footballing nation if you lose to the United States and Switzerland in a 12- month period?
stuckinred
@mcd410x: We will if they only TRY and don’t succeed.
mcd410x
All my moaning about the approach of the Swiss aside, Spain did what they always do in the major tournaments: fail. Euro 2008 was the exception.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
@mcd410x:
I have two problems with football, which I think are related. As I do every four years (and occasionally in between), I’m watching, trying to get into it, and still failing.
The first problem is hard for me to articulate, but basically comes down to the foot being a very ineffective, inefficient instrument for directing something. Aside from any question about the ball, it’s too difficult to be sufficiently accurate to have things develop with speed. For an ice hockey fan, football just seems painfully slow.* Making the pitch so big doesn’t help matters.
The second, related to the first, is that I find that it’s too easy for an inferior team to completely clog everything up and turn it into a game of pure chance. I like upsets as much as the next guy, but they should come from the winning team actually being better on a particular day, and not because an inferior team can reliably prevent a better one from scoring. It’s like the hockey of the late 1990s, with every bad team deciding to play the way the New Jersey Devils did (and did well), but much, much worse. Football needs to find a way to open things up.**
Fortunately, I didn’t watch the first half. I didn’t get up until about 10am, so I only got to see the last 25 minutes of Spain/Switzerland. For the first fifteen of those, it was very nice to watch. The Swiss were clearly playing defensively, but not like other teams I’ve watched. Most of them usually just get the ball and kick it as far down the pitch as they can, counting on it being too big for the team behind to get it all the way to the goal. The Swiss actually seemed interested in maintaining possession and at least gave a thought to scoring again themselves. Sure, if they ended up in a tight spot, they punted, but it wasn’t their first option. The last five minutes of regulation and all of penalty time, though, turned into the kind of football I dread.
I don’t know enough about the game. Is there a way to make it such that being completely defensive doesn’t work so well?
*I don’t inherently dislike slow games. I’m a huge baseball fan and increasingly like cricket. Taking five days to play a match, now that’s slow. Those two sports are built around the idea of being slow, though. Football has all the trappings of a game that wants to be fast, but it just isn’t.
**Though exactly why the billions of football fans should give my opinion a lot of consideration remains unresolved.
Face
Uh…..another 1-0 game? This has to be the lowest scoring first round of games ever.
mcd410x
@burnspbesq: lol. nice.
MikeJ
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN):
Beat the teams that do it so nobody else will try.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
@MikeJ: Uhm, yeah. Thanks for the coherent reply.
mcd410x
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN):
This is also what makes soccer such a great game. Desire can, on its day, overcome talent. But the Swiss didn’t win because of their North Korean- or even South African-like desire or a even because of a moment of brilliance — I would be cool with either. They won on a set of lucky, pinball bounces that wound up in the net.
It’s also one thing to play negative, immature football when you’re trying to survive the drop in your domestic league, but these teams — and most of them are playing this way which is why the tournament has thus far sucked — are trying to win the World Cup. At least in theory they’re trying.
As I said earlier, as a coach determined to play Arsenal to a draw once said: If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns.
burnspbesq
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN):
Let me ask you this: do you find pitcher’s duels in baseball unexciting? Did you find this year’s NCAA lax championship game unexciting? I’m willing to bet the answer is no on both counts. Well-played, low-scoring games are inherently exciting BECAUSE they are low-scoring, not in spite of it. The closeness of the score magnifies the importance of every play, because any play can be decisive.
Paula
@Stroszek:
History repeats itself as Spain chokes to a crappier team in South Africa. [cackles]
Der Blindschtiller
I live in Geneva and was listening to the game at work this afternoon. I had to run home shortly before the end and, as I was on the street, people started rushing out into the street to start celebrating. This place is going nuts to the point you’d think they had won the whole thing.
The guy across the street from us has a Spanish flag hanging from his window. The non-stop celebrating must really be rubbing salt in his wounds.
I’ll be drunkenly pulling for the USA on Friday with my equally tanked countrymen. Fun, fun, fun…
Paula
@Der Blindschtiller:
Well, I’ll have a drink in honor of the Swiss, USians’ compatriots in helping Spain retain their status as underachievers.
Still wanna visit Barcelona though.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal
@burnspbesq: Yes on the pitcher’s duel in baseball; no on the lacrosse final, because I find lacrosse to be the most terminally boring sport this side of basketball. Or maybe even the other side of basketball.
You missed my point, though. Yes, low scoring games can be very exciting. However, my problem with football isn’t that it’s low scoring. If you go back and read my original post, I don’t think you’ll find a single complaint to that effect. My problem is that it’s too easy for an inferior side to bring the game to a halt and turn it into a contest of luck.
I have zero problem with the game being low scoring. I don’t have a problem with it being too easy to play defensively. I don’t even have a problem with it being possible for an inferior side to play defensively and win. As I said above, it’s TOO EASY to do it in football for my tastes. I like the basic idea of the game, and I really do try to get into it. It’s hard to do, though.
As I said, I didn’t have a problem with the way I saw Switzerland playing for the first fifteen minutes I watched this morning. That was exciting. However, when I see teams protecting a lead by just kicking the ball as far down the field as they can and making the other team go the full length, they do not deserve to win. I’d like to know if there’s a way to stop that from being an effective tactic.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal
@mcd410x:
I didn’t see the Swiss goal. However, scoring on a series of crazy pinball like bounces isn’t the problem. In order to score on one of those, you actually have to be trying to score, and, in the long run, the team that gets more of them is going to win a disproportionate amount of the time.
Yes, desire can overcome talent, but if it can do so with any frequency without actually playing better on that particular day, that’s a problem. What I see when I watch football is too many teams that aren’t really trying to score. Worse, I don’t see them being punished often enough for that lack.
Until the last ten minutes, the Swiss team I was watching wasn’t playing like that. They were trying to keep control of the ball, advance it forward, and create something at the offensive end. They got pretty boring right towards the end, but I’m okay with that. Going into a shell for the last few minutes is fine, so long as you’ve been playing to win before that.
I guess my point is that I would like to see something change so that teams that play defensively still have to play more like the Swiss.
HyperIon
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): …so I only got to see the last 25 minutes of Spain/Switzerland
I wouldn’t describe it the way you did. I watched the entire second half and thought that both teams played well in their own way. The Spanish attack in the last 25 minutes was withering but the Swiss did not give in. And they moved the ball forward whenever they got the chance. They had several good runs at the Spanish goal late in the game.
I was very impressed by Spain’s passing; they are obviously a talented team and the superior one to boot (hah!). Luck plays a significant role in soccer; any sport with frequent rebounds is going to have this. The ball is big and the players bunch in the area so ricochets happen all the time. This introduces an annoying degree of randomness but it’s just part of soccer.
I think the structure of the tournament drives playing for a tie. Why not single elimination?
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal
@HyperIon:
That was pretty much how I did describe it, except that I didn’t mention the Spanish, who were pretty obviously trying to score.
burnspbesq
@Der Blindschtiller:
nzz.ch has a photo gallery up, including photos of crowds milling around in the middle of Langstrasse in Zurich. Gotta say, those guys need some instruction in the fine art of post-game
riotingcelebration. No broken windows, nothing on fire, no mounted police. Send them all to the University of Maryland for basketball season.eric
I think that people watch football for moments of sheer brilliance that shine even brighter next to most of the drudgery. I watched Chile this morning and Sanchez was godlike everytime he touched the ball. He controlled the ball like no one else out there and it was breathtaking everytime he attacked. When the ball was on the other side, it quickly found its way over to his side. Extraordinary playing.
I will watch every Chile game from here on out.
The English — and Rooney — lacked this particular trait.
eric
SB Jules
The only people who know the words were journalists covering Pau Gasol at the Laker game.
maus
@someguy:
Lollll I can’t believe how many people are stating that sincerely elsewhere. It’s absolutely amazing how they get kneejerk cultural-relative about it all.
Bill Murray
@That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN):
Of course there is. Depending on the exact situation there are several. Mostly they involve attacking through the weak areas/players to unbalance the stronger areas. Then using superior movement and vision to exploit the unbalancing and make a good chance. This generally requires quite a bit communication and teamwork, which is why halftime is often a game changer because then the weak players/areas can be more easily identified.
Another way is to press the defending players immediately after they get the ball. This would lead to turnovers (particularly in play TOs) that almost always leave the defense in a much worse position than normal.
An excellent example of how to defeat a bunker-type defense is the 1967 Champions Cup Final where Celtic beat the experts of catenaccio from Inter Milan 2-1 (after giving up an early goal)
Desert Rat
@Captain Goto:
England’s goalkeeper was a victim of not being smart enough to do what every Little League infielder learns their first week fielding ground balls in practice…put your body, as well as your arm in front of the grounder or it’s a lot more likely to squirt through.
I feel sorry for Robert Green in the same way I felt sorry for Bill Buckner. For screwing up royally on a big stage. The error was undeniably Green’s and, frankly, the ball had nothing to do with it.
Howard had no problems dealing with the ball at all, and nor have plenty of others so far. Worth noting that Green almost made a mess of it on the Altidore shot in the Second half as well.
Desert Rat
@Captain Goto:
To add to this, a bit, Robert Green played to form in the USA match. He stunk up the joint for West Ham this year. One of Green’s teammates on that team, Jonathan Spector, who had played his way into a likely starting role on the US team through the previous two years, was so badly abused at left back this season for West Ham that he didn’t get a sniff at starting for the US team, and likely won’t, with Cherundolo playing the way he did. If Jonathan Spector was playing so badly in the West Ham horror show he wasn’t deemed worth starting by Bob Bradley, why did Capello think Green would?
One other thing to think about with regards to goalkeepers. Ask any English person who played the game, and almost universally, they will tell you that on youth teams, the least athletic, least talented kid usually gets stuck in goal.
That isn’t true in the US. Quite often, very athletic players play goalkeeper on US youth teams. Tim Howard, the current US starter, was a high school standout in basketball, who could have earned a basketball scholarship, but was bound and determined to play soccer.
Couple that with the fact that US kids grow up also playing team sports (basketball, football, baseball) that require hand eye coordination in a way that outfield positions in soccer don’t, and you go a long way toward understanding why there have 3-4 starting US goalkeepers at any given time in the English Premier League through much of the last decade.
It’s a good thing too. A US edge in goalkeepers has enabled the team to rise above their general talent level on the international stage a number of times. Saturday was a prime example of that.
Paula
@Desert Rat:
Howard confirmed as much in a SI interview re playing sports w/ strong hand-eye coordination and goalie and how the English clearly don’t “get it” when they, say, try to pass a pigskin ball.