The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else. If the Republicans are being sincere, they would help us pass this long overdue bill to help the first responders whose health and livelihoods have been devastated because of their bravery on 911, rather than continuing to block this much-needed legislation.
There’s a simple reason why Republicans keep the Wurlitzer running: it works.
Redshirt
This is why we’ll never have nice things.
Bring on the Empire!
John Cole
This needs and assholes tag.
Midnight Marauder
Un.fucking.believable. “Yeah, I respect your right to freedom of religion, but not as much as I think it’s irrelevant in this matter.”
Feckless coward.
mistermix
@John Cole: Done. And since it’s fucked up, I added that, too.
brendancalling
interestingly, members of Harry reid’s
racist polygamist cultpretend religion“faith” want to build a gigantic temple in downtown Philadelphia.Well, i respect freedom of religion too, but Mormons give me the creeps the same way Muslims give right-wing douchebags the creeps. So I too would like the temple to the angle Moron built somewhere else too. I am going to call reid right now and tell him to take a stand!
stuckinred
From the last thread”
This is bullshit, Obama never said he “supported” building it any goddamn where.
beltane
Nice to see Harry out there fighting for our Constitution. Poor, silly me always thought the 1st Amendment encapsulated what was special about this country, but I guess not.
Freedom might not be free but it seems to go rather cheaply these days.
mistermix
@stuckinred:
In the Plumline piece I linked to, Greg Sargent gets it about right, I think:
stuckinred
@mistermix: Yea, thatmakes more sense. As for “good politics for Democrats” when did that ever matter to them? :)
beltane
@mistermix: Reid is playing Peter to Obama’s Jesus here. Maybe that’s going too far, but it is starting to feel like 2002 again. When it comes to betraying his president, his party, and his constitution, Harry Reid has got quite a lot of spine.
jrg
Nevada voters now have a choice between a batshit crazy know-nothing, and a total p*ssy. I swear to God, if I lived there, I’d stay home.
Midnight Marauder
This is just an incredibly gross understatement. I mean, this is almost on par with Ben Nelson level ratfuckery.
Almost.
Frank
Reid is a Mormon. Why don’t we also ban all Mormon Churches in our country?
BTW – There already is a fricking mosque four blocks from Ground Zero. Does the coward want that mosque demolished then?
I’m a former Republican. Reid is the perfect example of why instead of being a full-scale Democrat I’m instead balancing between Independents and Dems.
Felonious Wench
Hypocritical asshole.
Cordoba House has brought out the worst in this country. I’m ashamed.
Kryptik
That’s the whole thing about Reid’s statement. It’s nakedly political and cowardly so. He says that they have every right to be there…but says they should build somewhere else anyawys because it hurts the GOP’s fee-fees. Dumbfuck.
Oh, and hey, if Haaretz is to be believed, the owners are gonna back down too! Swell! Right-wing wins again!!
SenyorDave
I think every politician who comes out against building the mosque should be asked these questions:
1. Please define, in geographic terms, your version of the no “mosque zone” around Ground Zero. Is it 2 blocks, 10 blocks, all of Manhattan, all of New York City, all of the New York metro area, New York state, or all of the US.
2. If you object to the president’s defense of the building of the mosque, what would you have had him say?
Rock
So, Harry is a pretty sucky majority leader. It’s almost too bad he’s got a good chance of reelection.
At this point, I’m not sure that it bothers me that much that our political leaders and much of the populace are in favor of governmental preferential treatment of certain religions, indefinite detention, torture, etc. But what I would like is for these people to stop pretending they have a reverence for the constitution when they want to gut constitutional liberties or that they are staunch Christians when they support torture of people who are suspected of being criminals. I want truth in labeling, and if people want an authoritarian theological government, they should embrace the truth and just say they do. Until they do that they’re cowards as well as hypocrites.
wilfred
Sargent writes
Maybe Reid, at least, doesn’t believe in the principle. Political affiliations are not ontological categories.
Bill
As I said in an earlier post, we should demand the removal of Christian churches from the area around the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building site. It’s not right that they should be allowed so near a building that they bombed.
Allison W.
I must say, I am shocked SHOCKED that the Dem party or any Dem would leave Obama hanging. It’s unprecedented!
This is part of the mid-term strategy folks: run away from Obama (except when you need him to raise money) and go around saying things like — ‘i’m not part of the establishment’, ‘i don’t answer to him’.
kay
@mistermix:
It is bad politics, which leaves us with..he means it. He thinks all Muslims are collectively guilty, because that’s the only reason the community center would be offensive.
What’s been interesting (sad, but interesting) about this is watching members of other religious minorities abandon the new kid on the playground, when the bullies surround him. That whole “people of faith” we-stand-together turns out not to be worth much, when things get scary.
Oh, well. So much for that!
beltane
@Allison W.: A similar strategy worked out very well for Al Gore in 2000. It left him with a lot of spare time to write books.
Polish the Guillotines
What a fucking coward.
The founders of his own goddamned religion were murdered and persecuted half way across the fucking country.
Democrat or not, he deserves to lose for this pee-pants, bullshit capitulation to these right-wing assholes. At least his bat-shit loony opponent is consistent in her stupidity and bigotry.
WHAT A FUCKING COWARD!
sherparick
Well, I expect Reid, who is in a tight race with Sharon “to the right of Attilia the Hun” Engle is doing what he thinks will make his reelection a bit more feasible. A house price decline of 56.9 % from the peak makes for a lot of sour voters. See Calculated Risk. I still prefer to point my anger at the Republicans who just need to start wearing the sheets, brown shirts, or black shirts to complete their transformation into the party of evil.
Nick
And some of you thought Obama had the ability to pressure Senators to see things his way because…?
Frank
@beltane:
We also have Tom Daschle who thought voting for the Iraq war would help him win-relection. He lost.
As despicable as the GOP is, at least they stand for something. The Dems – who the hell knows what they are for anymore. And Harry Reid is the posterboy for the whimpish, lack of principles Democrat.
Lolis
Forcing the Democrat to take a stand is probably bad politics but I want to know if they are on the side of the Constitution or more concerned for their re-election campaign. I want to hear what the only true liberal Russ Feingold has to say, honestly. But Reid is an idiot, I was almost going to give him some money, but not anymore. This takes spineless to a new level.
I pretty much think this is a flavor-of-the-week issue that nobody will be talking about in October. The economy sucks too bad for the focus on this to last too long.
Ruckus
There’s a reason that the founders separated church and state.
Reid is the living example of it.
Shorter Reid. My underpants bunched up.
mistermix
@kay: I’m pretty sure that the wingnuts who think that Muslims worship a “monkey god” believe the same thing about Mormons, and would just as soon never see another Mormon temple built anywhere. As for the Jews, they get a short-term pass from the evangelicals because the bible bangers think the Israelis are tough enough to keep the holy land away from the Muslims.
Nick
@Frank:
Not to apologize for them, but Republicans can win standing for something, Democrats can only win standing for 1000 somethings. The Democrats haven’t won on one platform since the 1930s at least.
Kryptik
@Lolis:
Because Democrats not taking a stand and caving time and time again has been a sure fire political winner. Why don’t we just come out and say it:
Being a Democrat is a political loser, no matter who you are.
Because even when you stand up, you’re still surrounded by jellyspined dicksnipes who make you look worse by proximity and shared label.
John S.
Considering that lately he has touted his appeal to Teabaggers and emphasized that he loves guns more than conservatives, you may be disappointed.
cleek
how odd.
Brachiator
Reid is falling back into old habits, a Democratic Congressional leader who looks for the earliest opportunity to capitulate, who snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.
KG
This is the political equivalent of “with all due respect, you’re an asshole.”
“I completely respect everyone’s First Amendment right to [practice religion/peaceably assemble/speak] but…”
I just want to see one politician, just one, call a press conference, open it to questions, and then when something like this is raised, just cuss everyone out for being so fucking pathetic. It will never happen, but I swear to Buddha and the FSM that I would pay PPV rates to see a politicians answer a question with, “Really? Seriously? Are you fucking stupid? This is your big fucking issue? A community center that has the support of the local community and is several time zones away from where you live? That is what you are fucking worried about?”
There are days when I dream of running a Bulworth style campaign.
Hugin & Munin
I really have to remember to stop being surprised at this nation’s moral cowardice.
Frank
@KG:
Mayor Bloomberg kind of did this. He is a better Democrat than most of the pathetic Democrats currently in Congress.
KG
@Frank: yeah, but I want f-bombs, preferably on live teevee, something that will be talked about for weeks on all the chatter shows, where, hopefully, someone will stop to say, “you know, maybe he is right, maybe we are being incredibly fucking stupid.”
it won’t happen, but a man can dream.
Bulworth
This is making me sick.
Bulworth
@Frank: True dat.
Violet
Coward.
Bulworth
This reminds me of the responses the Rude Pundit advised the Democratic candidates to make in their presidential debates. Classic stuff.
Midnight Marauder
@John S.:
Only if you weren’t expecting it in the first place.
kay
@mistermix:
Oh, I agree about conservatives and Mormons. I think Romney suffered because of his religion. Not that that led him to question why he was a member of a political group that rejected him, but still.
It does raise the question, though, for me personally.
Is there some reason I should give a rat’s ass about the rights of religious minorities, when they themselves can’t get past their tribal blinders and manage to see what’s at stake here?
I am FOR First Amendment religious liberty protections, but, honestly, if religious aren’t going to fight for that, I’m not volunteering to stand in their place, when they take off running.
It’s as if we’re having the 50’s and 60’s civil rights struggle, and black people just didn’t bother to show up. It probably wouldn’t have succeeded.
licensed to kill time
“Beware of the man whose conviction sways like a Reid in the wind.”
Confucius, updated.
gnomedad
@SenyorDave:
I’ll say again: I propose a reality show in which one of these dumbfucks is released at Ground Zero and given one hour to find the “mosque”.
Redshirt
This might be one of those things where Obama provides the cover for the spineless boys with elections to say see! I don’t stand up for anything too!
Poopyman
I mean really, who fuckin’ asked him anyway? I mean literally. Not a rhetorical question.
Michael
@jrg:
Harry Reid is still better than the batshit crazy know-nothing.
Mnemosyne
@kay:
Depends on where you are — there was a good turn-out of area churches in Temecula when some teabagging assholes tried to protest a mosque.
But, then, Temecula isn’t exactly a media center, so they didn’t have anything to lose by supporting the mosque.
roshan
I guess he is just trying to boost his chances in the coming elections. Even then he is a fucking douchebag.
kay
@Mnemosyne:
I’m so glad, and thank you.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
Oh c’mon, balloonbaggers. Look at at this way: Mr. Reid has merely learned the art of 11-dimensional chess.
JWL
I knew as a certainty that war would be unleashed upon Iraq the moment I saw a wire service photo of Dick Gephart standing alongside Bush in the Rose garden. I felt both sick at heart, and coldly furious. It was the beginning of my divorce proceedings from the ranks of the party. It took 5 years, but was finalized the day Obama announced his support of the FISA legislation, a week after he secured the nomination.
So I shouldn’t be surprised by Reid’s mealy mouthed cowardice, much less appalled. But I am.
There is a cancer within the leadership ranks of that party.
thwup! thwup!
I’m the sound of Harry Reid’s testicles sucking up into his abdominal cavity.
You can hear me whenever a Republican looks at him funny.
See you later!
roshan
Also, when is the democratic party going to manage the simple job of staying on message? The party leader, the President, comes out with a position on this issue, a constitutional one at that, and a few days later the senate majority leader from the same party comes out and contradicts him. What kind of party is this?
If this issue is gonna affect the coming elections, then doesn’t it mean that the democratic party stake out their positions on the same side?
joe from Lowell
@JWL:
Lest we forget, not only did Dick Gephart put his name on the AUMF bill, but he also squashed another AUMF bill that would have required Bush to report back to Congress on inspections and disarmament before launching the war.
And, lest we forget, Whip Nancy Pelosi led the opposition, and delivered a big majority of No votes among House Democrats.
Tsulagi
Yep. They’ve really got the Dems trained well. It’s impressive.
General Stuck
The fact that Reid is Senate dem majority leader is what makes it stink to the high heavens. He is running in tea bag Nevada, so, due to most politicians putting politics, and especially reelection politics before principle, it is not new or unexpected, but it highlights the running scared dem strategy of the past two decades in the senate and in general. Or, running from Reagan’s “liberal” boogeyman, and the largely “center right nation” bullshit. So they pick folks like Daschle and Reid for leaders from red states that compromises them as leaders of a mostly liberal dem caucus, especially when they have a tough reelection fight, (ie see called pre election Iraq War vote by Daschle, majority leader in 2002). I hope this changes, because it undermines the whole change of narrative from conservative to liberal strategy, and throws bricks through any liberal Overton Window moving effect..
Cacti
What a weiner.
kay
@roshan:
I agree with you, and it doesn’t excuse Reid, who may well be a religious bigot for all I know, but this is an interesting take:
Norquist dismissively referred the the mosque controversy as a “shiny object,” saying that it, and the Arizona immigration law, would distract Republicans from the winning issues of the economy and the Obama record and give Democrats outs, by handing them wedge issues to oppose the administration on. (We talked before Harry Reid came out against building the mosque near ground zero.)
“It’s a 70-30 issue that any Democrat can jump on the 70 percent side of,” said Norquist.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
I think this is probably a first for me on these pages, but …
I have no words. I’m fucking speechless.
Svensker
@sherparick:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
I have regained my composure.
I left a voice message on the telephone of Sen. Reid’s Washington office. I have a hunch that if he hears it, he won’t forget it, and no, I didn’t use any profanity.
I urge everyone to email, write, call or fax the senator today and express your views on this. Whatever your view is, just do it.
Paris
thinks that the mosque should be built some place else
I nominate Las Vegas.
Actually, I didn’t know Senator Reid represented Manhattan. If he doesn’t, then I’d recommend that he STFU and mind his own business. Good advice for the rest of America, too. Also.
Emma
@Midnight Marauder: You said it.
Emma
@DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective: Already sent him an email. It was calm, I pointed out that I might not be a constituent, but could well be a donor in the future, and was just wondering WTF he was thinking and could he please mind his own business? No, I didn’t put it quite that way.
Nick
@roshan:
The Democratic Party is party of a thousand messages. Always has been.
FlipYrWhig
@General Stuck:
I think they try to find someone who’s near the midpoint of the Democratic caucus and who has been around a pretty long time. And I also think that almost nobody wants to do it, because you end up having to carry water for a set of political positions your party can agree on, whether or not those are genuinely your own.
Emma
@roshan: Actually, Reid and Obama said the same thing, but that doesn’t change that this was a stupid thing for Reid to do, and here’s why. Oh, other than that it’s none of his business, is keeping a story in the headlines that helps the Repubs fire up the racist elements of their base, and puts other Democrats in the position of having to explain why they won’t say the same thing about thinking it shouldn’t be there. Ok, so here’s why, because Obama said it had an absolute right to be there. Good, so far. Then he said, well, you know, he might not necessarily think that’s the best place for it, but that’s neither here nor there. Big kerfuffle, the Right claims he’s flipflopping, whatever. And instead of just letting it go away, Reid jumps in to keep the story of Obama flipflopping and/or disorganization in the Dem ranks alive for another day. Way to go, dude.
Nick
My general feeling on this, as it is with other issues like torture, is not so much that the Democrats won’t stand on right, unpopular positions, it’s that we live in a society where we’d have to at all. It’s not the Democrats fault that doing he right is politically dangerous in the first place. I’m not confident anyone can change it. Lord knows I’ve tried in my own little world.
We used to be able to appeal to reason, rationality and if that didn’t work, shame…but none of those work anymore.
Frank
@Paris:
Well, two can play this game. How about we start the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository plan like tomorrow? I realize I don’t represent Nevada and have no right to speak for Nevadans. But if some cowardly senator from Nevada can claim to speak for the people of Manhattan, the rest of us surely can speak for his state. Let’s get the project started!
MJ
This pisses me off so much. I’m not a Muslim, but I’m sitting here with tears in my eyes and a knot in my throat. Which minority group is next? At this point, the R’s can just arbitrarily point at any group of people they don’t like and then pull out their billy clubs and bull whips to run them into the ground.
I’m so f’cking sick of this crap! It just doesn’t feel right to keep standing by in silence as more and more of this idiocy goes down. As a new Yorker, I’m thinking that it may be time to dust off my old marching shoes, go down to the Burlington Coat Factory, and start demonstrating in favor of the proposed community center. Anybody with me?
I haven’t heard about any organized events yet, so I’m probably going to begin by calling a few of my old friends (from my pre-attorney/ DFH/ community organizer days) to see if anything is planned. If I can’t find I may just head on out there by myself with a couple of homemade signs.
(If you all don’t hear from me again in the next few days, be sure to keep your eyes peeled on the NYC local news. I’ll be the angry black woman screaming “Green Balloons” as the NYPD tries to break up my one woman demonstration.)
Peace.
Allison W.
Yes. Where are those liberals with their legendary giant cojones?
stonetools
I go the other way on this.
Picture new Senator Sharron Angle voting enthusiastically for legislation introduced by Senator Majority Leader McConnell blocking the right of Muslims to build mosques in the USA-said legislation to be reviewed by the Roberts Court.
That’s not just some bogeyman-that’s a realistic scenario in today’s political scene.
Think on that for a minute. If Harry has to run to the center to avoid that scenario, then run Harry run. It’s really only slightly to left of what Obama said, after all.
And let me not hear any BS about Angle and McConnell being the “same” as Reid. On his worst day -and this is one of his worse ones- he is 50^ times better than McConnell-Angle.
Rick Taylor
I don’t join in on pile-ons on Reid. I figure he has a difficult job in the senate where everything requires 60 votes, and he has to retain cordial relations with some really insufferable people.
But this just stinks.
cat48
GovChristie NJ says he can’t believe that Obama is using the mosque as a “political football”!
Allison W.
when we own a channel that promotes our talking points 24/7.
Allison W.
@cat48:
wtf? what does he call what Republicans are doing?
Linda Featheringill
All right, folks. Listen up.
Now is the time to contact your congresscritters, etc. and tell them that you are proud of Obama for what he said about the Cordoba Community Center and that the individual Democrat should not be afraid to stand up and agree with the Prez.
Okay?
Chop! Chop!
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
@MJ:
Right there with ya.
Mnemosyne
@Emma:
It may be subtle, but there’s a difference between saying, “I may not think it’s the best idea to build there but that has nothing to do with their absolute right to build there” and “They shouldn’t build it there even though they have a right to.”
Obama said the first, Reid said the second.
Midnight Marauder
@stonetools:
This whole hypothetical is bullshit because there is really no chance the Republican Party wins control of the Senate.
So in the fucking real world, which way do you go on this?
And that isn’t remotely true at all:
MJ
@Emma:
I disagree, I think the difference between Reid and Obama’s positions were laid out rather nicely in the Greg Sargent piece that mistermix referenced above.
Rick Taylor
Obama specifically said he had not and would not comment on the wisdom of the project. I was frustrated with that at first, but on reflection I think it made sense. If doesn’t make sense for the President to be commenting on the wisdom of any particular building project. Reid could have followed suit, but he didn’t; he said the project should be built some place else. That doesn’t contradict Obama, but it does go beyond it, and in the wrong direction.
Suffern ACE
@Allison W.: Oh, they’ve erased themselves like they usually do. King and Rick Lazio have shown up at these anti-Cordoba events from the beginning. But that’s not really politics. This opposition has been completely “organic”, not managed at all for the benefit of any politician.
Just like the governor of Arizona hasn’t been playing politics either over immigration.
cat48
@Allison W.:
Well, the repugs are doing it too but OBAMA IS THE PRESNIT so he’s supposed to be above crap like this or something. He’s furious he has to weigh in on it I guess. :)
wobbly
What a disgrace! The people behind the Cordoba House had 9/11 Families for a Peaceful Tomorrow working with them on this project from the outset, so how could it be a “slap in the face” to 9/11 victims?
Other families may disagree, but they refuse to see the difference between a handful of twisted fanatics and the law abiding American and immigrant Muslims who live and work in Lower Manhattan, so they are wrong!
If this project is canceled due to bigotry and ignorance, the people of Lower Manhattan will be stuck with a derelict, damaged eyesore instead of a nice new building where people of all faiths (and no faith) could come for a workout, a swim, a poetry reading, a concert, and actually learn something about modern day American Islam. Worse yet, the Muslims of Lower Manhattan will have been rewarded for obeying our laws and working hard to become Americans with the deprivation of their right to worship as they choose. They have been vilified and slandered and threatened for no reason at all.
Disgraceful! Let Reid stick to his casinos and leave Manhattan ALONE!
SB Jules
Damn Harry. I was in Las Vegas last week & was happy to see some good Reid ads, but this is not good especially for someone of a minority religion himself.
wobbly
@MJ:
As a former New Yorker, I’m with you but, alas, only in spirit.
I’m just too broke to travel from Upstate to Downstate these days.
The Populist
One different way to look at this: At least Dems can agree and disagree on issues and think for themselves, right or wrong. The right are all sheep.
The Populist
@SB Jules:
I saw a Gallup poll recently that showed Americans losing massive faith in religious institutions. Grover Norquist (god, I cannot believe I agree with that fool) is right. Harry is wrong but bless his heart he proves something to all tea baggers…being a dem means you can think for yourself. The right is all about fake outrage, strawman issues and if you disagree out you go.
Harry makes me sick and he needs to tread carefully BUT I respect the fact we can all have opinions on the dem side of the aisle.
Frank
@The Populist:
This isn’t an issue where Dems should agree or disagree. The constitution couldn’t be clearer. Just because FoxNews says something doesn’t mean that Harry Reid has to ask “how high”.
Cain
@Paris:
Just get one of the casinos to build a replica of the Taj Mahal. Not only will wingnuts head explode, you’ll piss off the indian govt as they react to wingnuts.
Of course, the Taj Mahal is not a mosque but shows what one man’s physical manifestation of love for his wife is. But it sure looks like a mosque doesn’t it?
cain
stonetools
@Midnight Marauder
I meant to the right of Obama, my mistake.
The characterization of the difference between Reid’s and Obama’s position as “subtle” means that there isn’t really the chasm between the two positions that you imagine.
But if you really believe that there is really no chance of the Republicans taking control of the Senate, then you live in a different universe than I. Here on Earth Prime, it is certainly possible that Angle could beat Reid and that the Democrats could lose the Senate.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010601-503544.html
Lose the firebagger goggles and look at reality, guy.
Nick
@Linda Featheringill:
Stand up for Obama? What do you think we are Obots?
I heard on some blog somewhere that Obama didn’t really support the mosque, so no.
AxelFoley
@Allison W.:
This.
And fuckin’ “progressives” wonder why Obama doesn’t often take the risks they want him to. They NEVER have his fuckin’ back!
He’s your fuckin’ President, muthafuckas! Get his back when shit like this goes down!
You wonder why the GOP kicks liberal ass. Pussy-ass sumbitches.
AxelFoley
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
Don’t you have some white man’s shoes to shine somewhere, Ruckus?
Midnight Marauder
@stonetools:
No, the Republican Party will not win back the Senate, they will not win the House, and it will not be a bloodbath of the Democratic Party as so many make it out to believe. Sure, it’s possible she could beat Harry Reid, but let’s not kid ourselves–Reid most likely is going to pull this thing out because the only candidate more self-destructive than Sharron Angle is Rand Paul, who I am also on record of predicting will go down to my man, Jack Conway.
I don’t think it’s anywhere near remotely realistic that Republicans win enough seats to take back the Senate. I mean, if we just go through the races listed in the article you linked, you have the following:
~ Michael Bennett vs. Ken Buck in Colorado (I think Bennett can definitely hold on, and it doesn’t hurt that Buck is insane.)
~ Boxer vs. Fiorina in California (You’re kidding, right? Boxer will lock it up in the home stretch like she always does.)
~ Feingold vs. Russ Johnson in Wisconsin (Last I checked, about 60% of the state didn’t even know who Russ Johnson is, so it’s kind of silly to worry about how close he is to Feingold in the polls before people start actually paying attention.)
~ Crist vs. Meeks vs. Rubio in Florida (I don’t think Rubio will hold on in the end, and I think Crist ends up caucusing with the Democratic Party.)
~ Mark Kirk vs. Alex Giannoulias in Illinois (Yet another outrageously self-destructive candidate in Kirk, and according to the latest Rasmussen poll, the two are tied. Which means Giannoulias is probably leading by 5 in the real world.)
~ Rand Paul vs. Jack Conway (Just look at how Paul is getting crushed in Kentucky right now as an absolute fucking moron. Doesn’t bode too well for him in the long run.)
~ Blumenthal vs. McMahon in Connecticut (Seriously? I don’t expect Blumental to face a terribly serious challenge in this one.)
~ Carnahan vs. Blunt in Missouri (The definition of a toss-up right now. Could go either way, but Carnahan is running a pretty solid campaign thus far.)
Seriously, the chances of a Republican takeover of the Senate are microscopic.
Mnemosyne
@stonetools:
Dude, even the article you linked to said it’s very, very unlikely that Democrats will lose their majority, which would require them losing all 10 seats that are up for election. Democrats will probably lose 3, which would mean they keep the majority.
Who’s got their firebagger goggles on now?
Nick
@Cain:
Las Vegas had two Muslim-world themed casinos…the Aladdin (now Planet Hollywood) which had a miniature mosque and a minaret right over it’s big gaudy sign and the Sahara, complete with onion domes you’d see topping mosques in North Africa.
Peter
@Midnight Marauder:
This is why I have such mixed feelings on Sharron Angle. On the one hand, she is probably the worst possible candidate the Republicans could have drawn. But on the other hand, if the GOP manages to pull her through…I think fo Sharron Angle on the Senate.
And then I remember that Michelle Bachmann managed to get herself elected twice. And I weep.
asiangrrlMN
@DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective: Thanks for saying this. I just sent a very polite email to Senator Reid voicing my extreme displeasure at his statement. Fucker.
@Mnemosyne: Agreed. And, Obama actually didn’t comment on the wisdom at all. He stayed out of that, much good that it did him.
@stonetools: Well, if you are going to go that route, why shouldn’t Dem candidates say they are for repealing the 14th Amendment, stopping all illegal immigration, cutting all taxes across the board, and all that shit? I mean, if we’re playing, “Do what it takes to get elected”? What Reid said is way to the right of what Obama said. Obama stuck to the law, which is what Reid should have done. No, I don’t think Reid is just like Angle or McConnell, but I do expect him to maintain a modicum of what it means to be a fucking Democrat even in a tight election.
asiangrrlMN
@Peter: Remember, though, that Bachmann is a representative from a very conservative district. She would never be elected if she were, say, in Minneapolis proper. That’s not to say that I don’t think Angle has a chance of winning–I do.
Texas Dem
Of course Reid is against the mosque. It’s a 70 – 30 issue. Do you guys really want to sacrifice another 3 or 4 senate seats trying to save a mosque that in all likelihood is never going to be built (because the supporters probably won’t be able to raise the enormous sums of money needed)? God liberals are stupid.
SiubhanDuinne
I’m so furious about this, I just took it out on a poor innocent defenseless phonebanker from the DNC who called to thank me for me past support and, you know.
I feel sorry for lighting into her, she’s making less than minimum wage in a boiler room call center somewhere, but she was handy.
I expect the FCC to swing by for a visit and a little chat about my language.
Der BlindSchtiller
Of course Reid is against the mosque. It’s a 70 – 30 issue.
And if we governed according to mob rule, we’d still have slaves and women wouldn’t be able to vote.
Fuck the Democrats. If the country elects Republicans in the fall, they run the country further into the ground and America responds by electing more Democrats, then we deserve watching our country disintegrate around us.
Given the status quo: Let it all fucking burn.
Josh
Stonetools,
There’s a really big “If” at the start of that sentence. It presumes that Reid will gain votes by increasing his resemblance to Angle. Whom from?
Nick
@Der BlindSchtiller:
Well we did for a lot longer that we should have, and the former cost a President his life.
As much as it annoys me that the media will mock the Democratic messaging again because of this, the truth is they would have found some low-level Blue Dog to say what Reid said and run with the narrative anyway. It’s not worth rising Senator Sharron Angle over a mosque.
The media has a narrative, it’ll find a way to fit the news to it…Reid or no Reid.
Nick
@Josh:
it’s not about getting votes, it’s about not losing the ones you already have and are desperately trying to hold onto. This doesn’t cost him a single vote.
A friend of mine today, loves Obama, still supports him, still supports Democrats, essentially ceded the 2012 election to the Republicans and said “Obama supporting the mosque just proves he knows he’s gonna lose in 2012 and he’s accepted it.”
When she heard what Reid said, she said “At least he’s trying to win”
A lot of Democrats have just lost faith in the country
Der BlindSchtiller
@Nick
Democrats paid severely for generations over Civil Rights. Do you think that was a mistake, or would you have liked a few more Senate seats in exchange for continuation of Jim Crow?
Some principles are more important than short term political calculus.
Again: Fuck the spineless Democrats. My only hope is for complete Republican victory and ensuing revolution. I’m only halfway kidding.
Nick
@Der BlindSchtiller:
You know, honestly, sometimes I wonder if Civil Rights only prolonged the racist problem and turned the country in the neofascist-fetish state it is today.
Civil Rights was roughly the time whites went from being supportive of progressive policies to being against them…and the main reason seems to be that Civil Rights led them to believe that they would no longer benefit from progressive policies, minorities will, so the only way of continuing their oppression was by cutting welfare and Medicaid and all the social programs designed to help everybody. The inherit racism was soooo strong that whites felt the need to sacrifice their own social safety net to continue oppressing minorities
I don’t know if Civil Rights led t short-term political losses only, i think it was a short-term and long-term loser for the Democrats and may have indirectly, and accidentally, led to the nation’s destruction.
I don’t see Civil Rights as a mistake, but I think it’s sad we even needed a those laws in the first place, and I think by doing it, we forever ceded a progressive America.
Texas Dem
Yeah! Burn baby burn! Let’s lose even more senate and house seats because we want to defend a mosque that probably isn’t going to built anyway (because the supporters won’t be able to raise the money, i.e., how many wealthy Arabs will want their names splashed over Fox News for the next six months)? By the way: do you have a Canadian or European passport just in case? I don’t.
Der BlindSchtiller
@Nick
Thanks for proving my point 100%.
Nick
@Der BlindSchtiller: I’m sorry, you had a point?
Nick
@Texas Dem:
you mean other than the wealthy Arab that owns 7% of it?
Der BlindSchtiller
@Texas Dem:
At our current pace, one party is a slow burn toward irrelevance, the other is a lit fuse.
Me? I’d rather start anew now (read: shoot ’em all) and rebuild before we’re too far behind to catch up.
This issue is proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back for me.
Der BlindSchtiller
@Nick,
Do I need to explain the whole, “Civil Rights are responsible for our racial woes and everything would have turned out peachy sans intervention” argument? My old colleague (who was an unreconstructed Confederate made all the same points).
Texas Dem
Are you talking about a revolution, civil war, or just waiting until the GOP so completely wrecks the country that even the stupid will realize we need to find another way? That’s a little like burning down your house to kill the termites, isn’t it?
Der BlindSchtiller
@Nick,
Do I need to explain the whole, “Civil Rights are responsible for our racial woes and everything would have turned out peachy sans intervention” argument? My old colleague (who was an unreconstructed Confederate) made all the same arguments. I’m not saying your motivations are the same, but the end result sure as shit would have been.
pablo
Harry… The Fluffernutter!
Nick
@Der BlindSchtiller: That’s not what I said. I didn’t say the racial situation would fix itself, it never will…but I’m willing to bet without Civil Rights, Ronald Reagan never would’ve happened and corporations wouldn’t be running the place.
Up until Civil Rights, Democrats were able to get support for progressive policies like Social Security, public housing, etc. because they made sure white people were in the front of line.
Civil Rights changed that, and now that white people had equal opportunities as people they felt were less deserving, they decided the social safety net needs to be dismantled. It’s like the child who throws the cake on the floor because his mother told him he has to share with his sisters.
We can have a functioning welfare state or we can have equality, we cannot possibly have both. We chose equality…it was probably the better choice…but we shouldn’t be surprise everything else is gone forever.
The end result is that the Democrats win the votes of everyone except white people, so once they’re an irrelevant minority, we’re all set…so hang on another 30 years.
Fax Paladin
@Cain: Isn’t there already a Taj Mahal? Lord knows there’s nearly everything else in Vegas these days…
Nick
@Texas Dem:
Well I have a British one, but most European countries would be happy to have an educated American refugee.
fasteddie9318
@AxelFoley:
Um, wha?
Since when is Harry Reid:
1. a progressive, and
2. part of the minority of self-described progressives who “wonder why Obama doesn’t often take the risks they want him to”?
fasteddie9318
@Nick:
I did a check of the family tree to see if I could qualify for an Irish passport, but we came over here too long ago.
Nick
@fasteddie9318: I think he meant “and progressives wonder why he doesn’t fight…because others in the party never have his back”
which is true….very few true blue progressive have Obama’s back on this…most of us spend the weekend trying to parse his words while the Republicans won the debate (although I argue they won before the debate even started).
Uncle Clarence Thomas
@AxelFoley:
I am now satisfied that I can make you give me your “O” face on command, Axel. Many happy returns.
Brachiator
@Nick:
It is an invitation to passivity. Don’t bother working or fighting for what you believe or want. It’s just too hard. Wait for demographics to rescue you.
You also wrongly presume that the eventual nonwhite majority will be a reliably Democratic voting monolith, and that their values will be in sync with that of the white minority and with that of every other nonwhite group in the country.
Good luck with that.
toujoursdan
@Texas Dem:
It’s already being built. They are already altering the building. They are doing it in phases.
Also in Manhattan where it is actually being built, 46% supported the project while 36% were opposed.
AxelFoley
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
You missed a spot.
Flugelhorn
Oh my. You mean Republicans are not the only ones against this? You mean that actual PEOPLE are against this? Goodness gracious. All this time I thought it was just the Republican machine churning up mindless zombies who hate brown people and carry handguns to nursery schools. Fuck me.
Gromit
@Texas Dem:
This isn’t about saving the mosque. I don’t have an opinion one way or another on the siting of the Cordoba House. Even the first amendment is something of a red herring, since there isn’t a legal mechanism to stop the project at this stage. What I strongly object to is the notion, implicit in the “sensitivity” objections, that it was Islam, and not simply Islamic extremists, who attacked America, and that all Muslims, even those who denounce Al Qaeda, must hide their faces in shame. The willingness or unwillingness of our leaders to stand up to bigotry now will have repercussions far beyond the 2010 election, both culturally and politically. The opponents of this project are mainstreaming anti-Islamic hatred, and the time to speak up is now, not later.