Since Joe Sestak is one of Balloon Juice’s ActBlue targets, I figured I’d put up this OFA commercial for all you political / media experts to criticize at length:
(via Wonkette)
***********
Also, while I appreciate the argument that “Meeks has no chance of winning, donating to him would just be a waste of precious Dem campaign dollars”, this strikes me as a pretty good ad advocating sane positions:
Mnemosyne
Yes, I’m reposting from the thread below. So sue me:
OT, and Flip and I are already all over it, but didja see that Steny Hoyer is already talking down Obama’s infrastructure proposal and saying it won’t even make it onto the House calendar this year? (via Steve Benen)
Jesus fucking Christ. No wonder nothing ever gets done. Where’s CS to tell us it’s all Obama’s fault, not Hoyer’s fault, because Obama didn’t want it enough? If he just pounded the bully pulpit harder, Congress would totally jump to do his bidding!
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
It’s Meek, not Meeks.
I saw Meek on tv during the 2008 election season and I thought he was a decent, reasonable sounding guy.
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne:
I will make you a deal, right here and now. I will completely agree Congress is 99% of the problem.
If you will never, ever, write “He passed HCR!” or “He passed Lily Ledbetter!” or “He passed FinReg!” or any variation of the theme where President Obama gets to take credit for “passing” amazing legislation.
LittlePig
“Meeks has no chance of winning, donating to him would just be a waste of precious Dem campaign dollars”
That reminds me, I need to send some money Mr. Meeks’ way. Win or lose, it still helps keep the Overton window steady.
I knew Bill Halter would lose to Blanche, too, but I sent money his way. I don’t think the derivatives regulation would have stayed in without pressure on Blanche from the left. Sure, Blanche will probably lose to Boozman, but that was going to happen anyway, now that my home state has gone over to the Dark Side.
Betty Cracker
I’m a Florida voter, and I am so torn on the Meek vs. Crist choice. Yeah, I’d love to see Meek win. I really don’t think he can, though, and I’m seriously considering holding my nose and voting for Crist to keep Rubio out. Arguments pro and con from BJ readers would be much appreciated as I still haven’t made up my mind.
Mnemosyne
@Corner Stone:
So Congress gets 100 percent of the credit when they actually get off their asses and pass the legislation that he proposes, but Obama gets 100 percent of the blame when it doesn’t pass?
Sorry, no deal. You’re just going to have to figure out another way to try and conceal your irrational hatred of the president.
ETA: Okay, I’ll propose a counter-deal: I’ll stop giving Obama any credit for HCR as long as you never say another word about it being Obama’s fault that there was not a public option since that was Congress’ decision. All of the blame for that has to fall in their laps if they also get all of the credit for passing it. Deal?
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne: You can’t have it both ways jackie.
Zifnab
Campaigning for Bill Halter in Arkansas got us a better Financial Reform bill. Campaigning for Joe Sestak pulled Arlen Specter further and further left. Never underestimate the so-called “lost cause”.
If Meek runs a strong campaign, he can siphon votes away from Rubio as easily as Crist. Rubio is polling around 40%, but that’s well above the 27% threshold of mindless crazy we’re accustomed to. Pull the debate left, make Meek a serious contender, peal off a few points from Rubio and a few from Crist, and in a three-way race Meek will start looking pretty good. Making Rubio the third party throw-away in this race has a whole host of merits worth considering.
Chyron HR
@Corner Stone:
I’m going to let you in on a little secret. There’s a magic trick you can do to make it so you will never again have to read horrible, terrible comments like those:
GO AWAY. STOP SPENDING EVERY WAKING MOMENT OBSESSIVELY READING BALLOON JUICE.
It really works! You’re welcome.
Mnemosyne
@Corner Stone:
Same to you, sweetheart. Which do you want more: to reflexively blame the president for everything like you’ve been doing for two years, or to actually look at the real root of the problem?
Mnemosyne
@Zifnab:
Even if Meek loses, it’s worth having him in the race to steer the conversation to the left so Crist has a middle ground to steer between Meek and Rubio. Otherwise, it turns into yet another contest between the center-right, the right, and the really far right.
So I say that money spent on Meek is worth it to keep Crist honest and make him beholden to the Dems.
Kryptik
@Mnemosyne:
It should be clear by now that this is Hoyer’s function. He is King High Concern Troll, and has done all he can to immediately undermine anything Pelosi or Obama have wanted in the House, within hours. This is not new.
And on my own OT note, I’m swearing off 538 for a few weeks. Seems like very post there from Nate and crew is more and more Congress apocalyptica. According to them, the Senate has a 1/4 chance to flip now.
Edward G. Talbot
Meek has great stated positions – better than Crist certainly. But in various races in the past, Dennis Kucinich nationally and Brian Moore in Florida have had far better top to bottom positions than other candidates. Do we vote for them?
generally no. Even if Kucinich didn’t have the “out there” issues, he could never get elected with those positions. Brian Moore could never get elected statewide in Florida, either. And Meek cannot get elected in a 3-way race. There aren’t enough yellow dog democrats in Florida and plenty of dems and indies like Crist.
In Meek’s case, if one is really progressive, I’d say there are fewer reasons to vote for him than even people like kucinich and Moore. At least with the latter, you are getting people who REALLY match your position. You’re making a statement. With Meek, you’re just voting for a machine democrat who will fit right into the middle of the dems in the House (he won’t be a blue dog) but will never be someone who will go to the mat for single payer or immediate troop withdrawals. There’s no point in voting for him unless you are moderate enough that you fit into the middle of the house dems spectrum or unless you really believe he can win. And I don’t see how he can win with Crist in the race.
I just moved from florida this month, so I won’t get to vote. But I am pretty certain we are looking at senator Rubio unless Crist becomes the defacto democrat in the race.
Zifnab
@Corner Stone:
You can when you factor in the Senate. If Obama and a handful of liberal Dems have to fight past the 60th Senator threshold to get anything passed, then Obama and the liberal Senate Democrats get the credit.
If Nelson and Lieberman and Lincoln and Bayh all shit in the punch, or if the Ladies of Maine and Scott Brown absolutely refuse to budge, it seems a bit absurd to burn Obama in effigy.
That’s not to say the White House escapes all blame for all problems, but it does say a lot about where obstruction tends to occur.
Also, can we ever give the House some love? Those guys did an amazing job the last two years, passed some truly progressive legislation, and never really seem to get much credit once the Senate is done gutting it all. I think the House needs some extra backbone, but in terms of progressive bonafides, they really do go above and beyond.
arguingwithsignposts
@Mnemosyne:
Clarification: Lily Ledbetter was actually proposed in the last legislative session originally, so it wasn’t an Obama-proposed bill. But he did sign it, which is more than we can say for his useless predecessor.
demo woman
@Betty Cracker: Did you read the post about Lindsay coming out for Crist? He’ll stay in the Republican fold and do as he is told.
El Cid
Nevada’s independent (‘People Party’) goobernatorial (sic) candidate Gino DiSimone has some ideas to raise revenues and save money for the state.
On the 90 mph thing, in Atlanta you can pretty much do that and maybe get a ticket every few years and maybe pay a bit more on insurance. A lot less than $750 / month.
homerhk
CS, Mnemosyne (great name btw)
You’re both right and you’re both wrong. Of course Obama didn’t “pass” anything – that’s just shorthand for describing what he did do which was shepherd it through Congress. The bills that have been passed have, largely, been White House priorities and therefore Obama should get the credit but should share that credit with his support in Congress, i.e. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. No-one (I think) is saying that he deserves all the credit since a lot of the heavy lifting was shared, but certainly he deserves quite a lot of the credit.
By the same token, although he is not to blame when Congress doesn’t go along with him, I will accept as fair criticism (in principle) that had he done things differently Congress could or would have gone along with him. I don’t necessarily agree that that is the case (with the public option especially) but I can understand that criticism. On the other hand you have to temper that criticism with the knowledge that members of Congress, by and large, are dicks.
stuckinred
@El Cid: But watch out merging from 85n to 316e, it drops to 45 and they lay in the bushes!
BR
Plouffe is awesome. Seriously. Since day one I’ve been wishing he was in the White House running day to day operations. I know he and his wife have a baby to take care of, making it hard to be Chief of Staff, but still…
Betty Cracker
@demo woman: I missed that — will have to look it up. But why would the endorsement of one GOP senator who spends most of the time getting berated as a RINO by his party make Crist forget about practically every other GOPer shitting all over him? (Not trying to be argumentative — just trying to figure it out.)
Michael
OT, but an important OT.
“Burn a Koran Day” has been looming large in the minds of our emo conservopundits, as Christian pastor Jones continues to scream “Look at Me” like a coffee and sugar addicted 3 year old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOR09X1h_mE&feature=player_embedded
This fine bit of work was discovered at some point along the way. It is a highly offensive N-bomb rant directed out of that fine conservative white Christian bastion down in Florida, and consists primarily of white trash pastors and congregants using the N-word and whining about black racism and persecution agin’ white folk.
Cain
@Kryptik:
That’s a good idea, focus on getting GOTV for those new voters that showed up in 2008. People have got to be concerned about the economy, Dems should not be losing fire already.. jeezus, they want to let the old guard back? Bah.
cain
El Cid
@stuckinred: Nobody should be going that fast on 316 anyway.
Kryptik
@Edward G. Talbot:
Am I the only one frustrated by the fact that it seems like only Democrats end up subjected to such amounts of necessary handwringing? The only case I’ve seen of it happening on the other side of the aisle was perhaps the NY-23 special election, and that seemed like an odd duck as is.
It just feels like the Republicans lately have been able to throw out the nuttiest fuckers they can find, and even despite weird shit that manages national coverage (like Sharon Angle and anything she says) they get to remain relevant and even favorites in their races. Meanwhile we’re forced to triangulate and consider the idea of being forced to support independents because the Democrat ‘just can’t win’. It just feels frustrating and telling. It might just be my perception of it all, but it doesn’t help that the media seems to run with the insistence that such nutbars on the right still remain ‘very serious and viable candidates’.
Brian S (formerly Incertus)
@demo woman:
Don’t count on that. Crist’s one constant as a politician is his willingness to change his position depending on who’s gotten to him most recently. He’ll knife Graham in the back with a smile on his face if it means he gets a juicy Committee position in a Democratic majority. It also means he’ll flip parties again if the majority changes.
Alex S.
Meek is too sane to win. He made a lot of good moves in the past months. He pointed out his long-standing opposition to offshore drilling, just when Crist changed his mind in his way. He also rejected the education bill Crist ended up vetoing. It’s just that his megaphone is not big enough. The Crist-Rubio battle is just too attractive to break through with reason.
El Cid
“Did I say I endorsed Crist? I meant Christ, gosh darn it!”
Frank
@Corner Stone:
With this logic, you can no longer blame Clinton for passing NAFTA.
Corner Stone
@Frank: I think you have my position incorrect.
I am saying that of course a President is involved, and when appropriate share the credit. But when appropriate get down in the dirt and be prepared for a little spatter too.
It is others here who believe differently.
My bargain with Mnemosyne is because she is precisely the type of poster here who wants it all one way.
I’ve never, ever absolved Congress of their role or responsibility in legislation. She and a few others would like to keep the credit part but diffuse the negative downsides.
Corner Stone
When legislation is passed people are thanked for their hard work but one person gets the ultimate credit. When legislation stalls or doesn’t come through then that never has anything to do with anyone but Congress.
Either the President is involved in the business of legislation or he is not. To say that the wins are his but the poor outcomes belong to others does not seem to align with common sense. His influence, leadership or guidance made the difference in some circumstances but in others he was powerless because it’s solely Congress’ job to pass legislation.
Win some, lose some is a fine old saying but some here want to change it to I win some, you lose some.
I’m not sure how that is irrational hatred, or reflexive blaming, or burning in effigy.
Corner Stone
@homerhk: You misunderstand my position.
Of course it’s both.
Edward G. Talbot
@Kryptik –
I hear you. But keep in mind we are not talking about a democratic primary here, we’re talking the general. Those teabaggers have largely just won primaries so far. Now, in Utah and some other places, teabaggers will actually win the general. hell, they may win in nevada, kentucky, colorado, etc. But they will have to struggle to back off certain statements, just like Paul and Angle and Buck are sort of trying to do.
the “can’t win” thing in florida is kind of unique. between indys and democrats who might as well be indys, half the vote in florida would be happy to vote for an indy candidate. and crist is one of the few moderate republicans left. That creates a difficult dynamic, not helped by the fact that Meek – for all his good positions – is seen as a corrupt insider.
I don’t care for Crist – even the Crist who appeared as he was deciding to leave the race. he’s far too moderate. But i would probably hold my nose and vote for the SOB if I lived there still, because Rubio is actually scarier than a teabagger. he’s not some nutjob, he’s part of the establishment who just happens to really believe in the pro-business crap.
geg6
Damn, I was hoping for a new Sestak ad, not a David Plouffe rally the troops talk.
Sestak’s ads are getting better, but the best ones aren’t being made or paid for by the Dems or any Dem organization. They are from the unions. Thank FSM for the unions.
Saw my first Dan Onorato ad today. Good ad but really just an introductory ad as to who he is and what he’s all about. People across the state don’t really know him. He’s hugely well-known here in southwestern PA, but pretty much not on the radar of Philly and Pennsylbama.
Corner Stone
@Chyron HR: Would you happen to have any spare knee pads I could borrow?
I need to reflexively work on my gag reflex. And I feel you’re the perfect person to learn from.
Zifnab
@demo woman:
That all depends on why Graham wants Crist. As it stands, there’s a fight between moderate corporate Republicans and Teabagger Republicans all brewing around Jim DeMint. Since DeMint has already thrown in with Rubio, it could be Graham doesn’t like the idea of Majority Leader DeMint and is playing to pick up continued support for McConnell or some other candidate.
AxelFoley
@Mnemosyne:
Again, no one has Obama’s back. I’ve never seen a President who’s had to go it alone so many times as Obama.
Allison W.
The OFA clip is no different than the ones shown during the 2008 election. What exactly am I supposed to critique or were you joking?
lamh31
Question,
At this point, the vote Crist needs are the ones that Meek have correct. Dems and Dem leaning indy’s. He’s not gonna get the hardcore Repub/Tea baggers, Rubio has a lock on those, and I dont’ know much about the Hispanic vote as specific to Florida, but isn’t it likely, since Rubio is a Cuban-American, then he probably will have most of the Hispanic vote right?
So why is it that Crist can’t or won’t just say that he will caucus with Dems if elected. If he did, then I’d bet the Meek voters who are wary of Crist, may be more amenable to him if he says he will caucus with Dems. So why won’t Crist say what he needs to get the votes he needs? It’s obvious from his R to Indy turn, that he will do what he thinks will help him win.
To win, he needs Meeks voters, so why not say that he will caucus with Dems. Personally, I think it’s because he doesn’t really want to caucus with D’s. He’s been a R all his political life right, and he just turned “I” for this election cause Rubio was getting all the hard “R” support.
eemom
seems like Meek is a good man in the wrong place at the wrong time.
eemom
@Mnemosyne:
best not to deal with the devil. Jussayinzall.
Allison W.
I love that Meek ad. Really.
Meek should use Graham’s endorsement against Crist.
demo woman
The Graham endorsement was nothing more than covering the bases. If Rubio wins, he’ll caucus with repubs, if Crist wins he’ll caucus with the repubs. If I lived in FL, I’d go with the Meek.
Allison W.
@lamh31:
He’s waiting to see who wins and will then go to the highest
bidder.
eemom
@Betty Cracker:
Let me just say that it is very, very heartening to see an intelligent, engaged voter amidst all the latest shit about people not voting. Thank you.
Just imo, I think Crist is the best bet. Even if he goes to the dark side once elected, it’s still a big, fat fuck you to the teatard crowd, especially as he was one of their first — ugh — proteges. And much, much better than a senator Teatard Rubio. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
Jules
@Kryptik:
I know, but maybe all the doom and gloom will get people who are not enthusiastic about voting at least worried about a GOP controlled Congress which will hopefully motivate them to vote D in November.
I’m not “enthusiastic” about voting BUT I’d rather have Blanche Lincoln as my senator then Boozeman and there is no way in hell I want to be represented in the House my Rove’s toady Timmy Griffin.
Ok, maybe I am a “motivated” voter….
SB Jules
@Allison W.:
I love the Meek ad too! There’s a Florida politician I could really like.
Brian S (formerly Incertus)
@lamh31:
He’ll own the Cuban vote, but not necessarily the rest of the Hispanic community. It’s tricky down here, because there’s often a great deal of friction between the Cuban and other Hispanic communities. In short, that’s a voting group that’s still up for grabs.
John S.
South Florida Democrat chiming in…
Meek absolutely cannot win. He is barely known outside of his district in South Florida, let alone the rest of the state. And he has been INVISIBLE. I have yet to see a campaign ad on TV or hear anything on the radio for him. Hell, I don’t even really see much in the way of Internet advertising, either.
I am not a big fan of Charlie Crist, but you absolutely cannot deny some of the very good (and very tough) decisions he has made lately that are good for all Floridians. Did he do it to suck up to voters? Most likely. But I don’t really care what his motivation was. He can keep sucking up to liberals thru his entire Senate career for all I care.
Meek is a sacrificial lamb. Every vote for him is a de facto vote for Rubio, who is batshit insane and would be a nightmare for Florida.
Mnemosyne
@Brian S (formerly Incertus):
@John S.:
So here’s my question for the Floridians — is it worth it to have liberals/Democrats publicly supporting Meek even if they end up voting for Crist in the end? I have this notion that it will make Crist lean more towards the left in his campaign rather than trying to out-teabag Rubio, but I could be wrong.
Betty Cracker
@John S.: Another FL Democrat here…and leaning toward your point of view on the Meek vs. Crist question. The Meek ad at the top of this post is the first one I’ve seen.
And you’re right — no one outside South Florida has heard of the guy. I’m in the boonie fringes of the Tampa Bay area, and even people I know who follow politics a little hadn’t heard of him until Greene started running ads against Meek in the primary.
Frankly, he’s run a shitty campaign. Maybe because he’s broke. Maybe because his organization is inept. But the result is the same.
I’d love to see Meek win. But stopping Rubio is my top priority. I haven’t made up my mind 100% yet, but I’m starting to think voting for Crist is our only shot at keeping Rubio out.
california asset protection
plouffe can’t recover from this.
Daddy-O
I like Meek. This ad is going to change a LOT of Floridians’ minds.
I don’t know who will, or CAN win. But Meek would make an excellent Senator, and this ad is the only thing that convinced me of that.
I’ll bet millions of Floridians are going to agree with me in November.
Origuy
@El Cid:
Yet another wingnut who doesn’t know what’s in the Constitution.
Section 10:
El Cid
@Origuy: No, it’s just another part of the Constitution which they don’t like and don’t have to follow.
John S.
@Mnemosyne:
I have no problem with Florida Democrats doing as you suggest. Charlie Crist is an opportunist who needs to be reminded on which side his bread is buttered. So if Democrats supporting Meek publicly help push Charlie further to the left, then so be it. Crist has been steadily moving to the left – not the right, so there’s no reason to lose that momentum.
But come election day, Florida Democrats need to vote for the guy who can actually win and save us from Marco Rubio.
@Betty Cracker:
I have NEVER in my life voted for a Republican. Or even an Independent in Republican clothing. But I will not hesitate to vote for Crist to prevent that psychotic teabagger from holding office. That is more important than moving the fucking Overton window or feeling all good and pure about my politics.
cleter
@Betty Cracker:
Ok, here’s some:
Crist is not a democrat.
He ran for governor four years ago as a typical tough-on-crime Republican, and he was tacking right as hard as he could in the primary fight against tea-bag nutball Marco Rubio. He’s still an anti-choice Republican. If Rubio had gotten hit by a bus three months ago, Crist would be the Republican senate nominee, running ads about stopping Obama’s socialist agenda. He’d be up on the podium shaking hands with the tea-bag nutball Lex Luthor-lookalike that won the GOP gubernatorial primary. Crist still believes all the same Republican stuff he did a few months ago. The only difference is he just can’t win primaries anymore.
Crist won’t say who he will caucus with. Do you trust the guy, if the senate is tied, and he’s the tie-breaker? Do you trust him more than Lieberman?
Crist said he wouldn’t have voted for HCR.
Watch that Meek ad, and then watch Crist’s inaugural speech–it’s full of GOP platitudes and shout-outs to George Bush.
If you’re a Democrat, vote for the Democrat. If you’re a Republican, pick one of the two Republican guys. They aren’t that much different. Crist is willing to think that maybe we ought to think about doing stem cell research, maybe. That’s about the only difference between him and Rubio.
I think the DCCC should be funding the hell out of that Meek ad.
Betty Cracker
@cleter: The Dems in general and OFA specifically seem to be handling Meek with tongs. Maybe they see the handwriting on the wall.
I don’t trust Crist either — he’s got a constituency of one, and its name is “Charlie.” You are 100% correct to note that if Rubio got hit by a bus three months ago, Crist would be railing against Obama’s socialist agenda today.
But I think you are wrong when you say there’s no difference between Crist and Rubio. Crist will do what’s politically expedient for himself, and if the people of Florida expect him to be a moderate Republican (which is what he’s been as guv, and quite successfully under the circumstances if “success” is defined as “polls well”), he will be. Rubio is a true believer — way too extreme for this state.
Bottom line — even though I despise that bastard Lieberman with every fiber of my being, better a second Lieberman than a Rubio in the Senate.
NobodySpecial
Now they’re busy convincing people to not vote Democrat because a semi-sane Republican is supposedly the best we can do in a state that Obama and Gore both carried.
Anne Laurie
@John S.:
Well, that’s why I posted Meek’s YouTube clip here — he seems to be an excellent choice who just hasn’t been able to buy advertising. But nobody will donate to his campaign because he’s ‘invisible’, and he’s invisible because he can’t draw donations, our very modern political Catch-22 exemplified.
If nothing else (and I agree keeping Rubio out of office is very, very important to the Sane Person demographic) I hope Meek is given enough support that he’s able to run more visibly for office in the future.
NobodySpecial
@Anne Laurie:
Never knew you were a comedienne, Anne. They’re not gonna give Meek a dime in support.
John S.
@Anne Laurie
YouTube commercials aren’t going to cut it, though. Florida is a HUGE state with several different major media markets, and the only way to win here is to get something going there. Commercials like this one – as good as it is – really only preach to the choir. Meek doesn’t need to further convince the 20% of support he is currently drawing, he needs to pick up an additional 20%. And he isn’t going to do that in the next 2 months with the “invisible” campaign he is running.
Part of the reason why he’s invisible is more than just the paradox you cite. It’s also because he has run a HORRIBLE campaign. I’m on all the major Democratic/liberal email lists, and I JUST started to hear from Meek a couple weeks ago. Hell, I heard a lot more from his odious primary challenger Jeff Greene in a couple weeks than I have from Meek all year.
I think part of the problem is that Meek is a legacy politician. He was literally handed his seat by his mother, and frankly, he hasn’t really done anything special with it since he’s had it. I think that when you fall into a plum political job like that, it makes you a pretty lame campaigner. My theory is that Meek put his finger into the wind last year and thought he could ride Obama’s coattails to victory (without having to do much work on his own). He miscalculated in a very dramatic way, and has not really made any adjustments since.
@Nobody Special:
This is an absolutely moronic observation. Florida politics are FAR more complicated than a simple matter of who the state went for in a presidential election. And as a matter of record, Florida went for Bush TWICE. Obama’s victory here was somewhat of a surprise and hardly a landslide.
Florida Democrats are a mixed breed, and we haven’t really had any REAL Democrats in the Senate since Bob Graham retired. Bill Nelson is a pathetic excuse of a conservative Democrat. But this state has put an awful lot of Republicans in office, especially in the Senate.
So until you can show ANY evidence that Meek can possibly close the gap and even come close to siphoning off enough votes to do anything more than get Marco Rubio elected, keep your pipe dreams and pony fantasies to yourself.
Emil Myron
Hey… I don’t know if you’ve been making changes, but your pages aren’t displaying correctly for me. The borders of the text are overlapping. It wasn’t like this the other day. I don’t know if it’s on my end or if you’ve made a change… Just thought you might want to look at it. Thanks! Emil Myron