Adding to my point that there is really nothing new to the hatred bubbling inside the mind of Marty Peretz and it is curious that some people are only now calling him on it, here is a piece from Jack Shafer pointing out that Peretz has not really kept his feelings about Arabs a secret.
The piece is from 1991. This year’s freshman class in colleges across the country was not even born, and Peretz was getting his hate on.
(via Greg Mitchell)
cleek
i hate you
joe from Lowell
Last spring, I asked a class of 7th graders who had just read about North and South Korea if they could name another country that was divided into a communist half and a democratic half during the Cold War.
None of them had ever head of West Germany.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
So that’s before even the first WTC bombing. Can anyone tell me why Versailles has any kind of love for TNR?
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@cleek: What he said.
But also, too, I presume you’re already aware of the Peretz Dossier? peretzdossier.blogspot.com/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
A little goes a very long way, and there’s just so much hate and ignorance there!
Omnes Omnibus
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle: Outside of Marty, TNR seems to match nicely a certain school of thought within the Village. Nominally Democratic, but centrist on fiscal issues, vaguely liberal on social issues, and strongly in favor of exerting American power. Peretz is just seen as the crazy uncle at the Thanksgiving table.
Omnes Omnibus
@joe from Lowell:
It is not fair to talk about imaginary countries. I suppose you talk about Ruritania, Czechoslovakia, the USSR, and Belgium as well.
fasteddie9318
Well I guess we can add Jack Shafer to the list of people who don’t deserve the privileges of the First Amendment.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Omnes Omnibus: Can I tell you though how very, very sick I am of us collectively accepting our crazy uncles at our collective Thanksgiving table?
It’s ok to be the actual crazy uncle at an actual table, but when you’re Marty Peretz, though, or MSNBC’s Uncle Pat, you’re not just annoying the nieces and nephews, you’re doing actual damage to real lives!
I’m not annoyed with you for pointing it out — I’m annoyed with America for being this way. America!
Martin
@joe from Lowell: Heh, reminds me that I convinced a girl in my girlfriends dorm during college that North and South Dakota were similarly separated and that North Dakota was a fully communist state (like Canada). This was right around the time of German unification. It took about a week to convince her. I think the clincher was when I told her that Mount Rushmore was a piece of American propaganda to promote freedom, erected to be visible to those living in North Dakota.
She went on to be an elementary school teacher about a year later. I convinced a different girl in the same dorm that Oklahoma was a fictional state, the name created for the musical because of all the things it would rhyme with.
I wonder if I could still pull that kind of stuff off now that Google exists. Probably.
cyd
The Union and the Confederacy?
Steve
I thought America WAS divided into a democratic half and a communist half during the Cold War. The communist half voted for McGovern!
Omnes Omnibus
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther: No disagreement from me.
JGabriel
I feel like there should be a logo for this – yellow lettering on a red background, with those old fashioned curlicues at the sides, that says, “Peretz & Co., Hating Islam Since 1991”.
.
LittlePig
@Omnes Omnibus: Not to mention Freedonia.
Omnes Omnibus
@LittlePig: No, that one is real.
Omnes Omnibus
@LittlePig: No, that one is real.
me
God, what a huge asshole.
Ken
@Martin: The actual history of the division of the Dakotas is a little more sordid.
Martin
@joe from Lowell: Here in CA they don’t study any 20th century history prior to 8th grade. It’s all ancient civ up through mid-18th century US history. I’m not sure they even learn about events like the French Revolution until high school.
West Germany would have to be picked up at home or from TV.
Omnes Omnibus
@me: The kicker for me was his statement that he has no hatred in his heart. Ha!
Martin
@Ken: Isn’t everything the Republicans are involved in?
Kryptik
The sad thing is the fact that his worldview on Muslims seems dangerously ascendant these days in this country. And that disgusts and depresses me.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m at this very moment addressing that line in a blog post! (which I’m having a hard time writing because I’m so furious, which explains why I keep toggling over here).
Here’s the real question for Marty Peretz, I think: Does he understand the English language? He seems to not quite get the nuances of the word “hatred.”
El Cid
Generally it doesn’t bar access to mainstream media to suggest the inferiority of Arabs and Muslims, or even to recommend their killing or crimes against humanity such as expelling the Palestinians out of the illegally occupied territories. You can cheer for policies which kill the maximum number of Iranians or whoever. Peretz must personally be an asshole to his media contacts above and beyond the regular anti-Arab racists and anti-Muslim sectarians.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe it’s more in his lower intestines (though it comes out his mouth)?
Hugin & Munin
I think Peretz is even fuzzy on the meaning of the word ‘heart’.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Shouldn’t you just come out and say that Peretz is talking out of his ass?
jimBOB
1991? I remember Peretz screeds from the early 80’s, which were basically indistinguishable from this recent piece that he got called out on. If you read TNR during that era, you learned to quickly skip anything with his byline.
Omnes Omnibus
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther: I look forward to reading it.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus:
Is there actual evidence he has a heart? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
gex
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther: I believe the phrase is: America, fuck yeah!
Omnes Omnibus
@jimBOB: I subscribed to TNR on and off through the late 80s and 90s. Marty caused me to cancel or not renew several times. I would then be sucked in one more time. During that period, I fit in with the general profile I described above; I have moved left since then.
Ash Can
@Martin:
::whine::
El Cid
@Omnes Omnibus: It was a liberal hawk publication through and through.
SiubhanDuinne
Well, I guess it’s nice and all that he apologized for the “First Amendment privileges” line, and attempted to clarify the “Muslim life is cheap” line, but it’s all too little, too late.
Any Teabagger or Islamophobe or media entity can — and will, mark my words — cite Peretz under that useful canard “Even the liberal New Republic . . . .”
Pancake
The comments from Peretz fade into mild balderdash compared with some of the choice and fragrant anti-Semitic crap that has washed through these comment threads at certain times in the past. His is truly weak porridge compared to what many commenters here have had to say about the Israelis.
Omnes Omnibus
@El Cid: As was I, to some extent, during that time. Peretz, though, goes well beyond that.
WRT liberal hawkery, I was pro-Afghanistan invasion post 9-11 and I was persuadable on Iraq. I looked at the evidence, specifically the fact that inspections were going on and finding nothing, and decided that the case was not made and invading would be a tragic error.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pancake: You are equating the the occasional remark of random commenters on a blog with the 30 + year history of virulent anti-Arab bigotry by the publisher of a magazine that is seen as important within the DC establishment. False equivalence. Try harder.
jimBOB
@Omnes Omnibus:
If there had been blogs back then, I might not have bothered with TNR. But at the time it was a readable source for seemingly knowledgeable political commentary that went beyond the pablum of TIME/Newsweek etc. Like you, I’ve moved left in recent years, and at this point I’m so disgusted by military adventurism that I wonder if we’d be better off with no Pentagon.
Nemo_N
Wow. How old is the “Israel is always blamed first” meme?
Omnes Omnibus
@jimBOB: I went with TNR to balance the center-right I got from The Economist. I also subscribed to The Nation, but it was too left for me. Between them, however, I felt like I got a pretty good picture of the world from a reality based perspective.
Omnes Omnibus
@jimBOB: I went with TNR to balance the center-right I got from The Economist. I also subscribed to The Nation, but it was too left for me. Between them, however, I felt like I got a pretty good picture of the world from a reality based perspective.
Scott
Shorter Marty Peretz: “Jeez, I was just joking. Can’t you fucking raghead-lovers take a joke?! HAW HAW HAW!”
LanceThruster
@Pancake:
That the criticism was directed at the Israelis instead of “the Jews” was not enough to sweeten the aroma of that “fragrant anti-Semitic crap”?
Martin
@Ash Can: It underscores the single biggest problem in the US educational system, IMO – the widespread lack of teaching on critical thinking.
At my university, I’ve teamed up with a few others to rework the general ed science framework to eliminate science fundamentals as a learning outcome for non-majors, and replacing it with (roughly) recognizing science from non-science, and ability to discern good and bad science. Basically, rather than expect a bunch of history majors will learn anything about geology, we want them to be able to participate in a discussion about global warming, with the self-recognition that they are not a scientist and aren’t in a position to debate CO2 levels, but that they can elevate the value of evidence from a paper that is published in a prestigious peer-reviewed journal over anecdotal, non-sourced, or non-peer reviewed evidence.
Rather than turn non-scientists into scientists, we just want them to be able to properly classify all the information they receive as a citizen into a spectrum of ‘good science’ to ‘bad science’ and be able to act (vote, discuss, make donations, etc.) responsibly. We’re now trying to convince the social sciences to go along as well since there’s an equally big problem in their fields (Marty Peretz, case in point).
Maybe in a generation we’ll have teachers that my kids can’t bamboozle.
Ed Marshall
@Pancake:
Nutpicking in blog comments doesn’t prove much, but I don’t think you are right. “Israelis are” or more precisely “Jews are” statements (because Peretz doesn’t believe in Palestinians, that’s part of his racist thesis) are pretty fucking uncommon.
On the other hand, all Peretz *does* is go on about the essential, subhuman nature of Arabs.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: Isn’t that the whole point of a liberal arts education?
LanceThruster
@Martin: Extremely worthy and valuable pursuit.
I feel part of the resistance to critical thinking is the fear religionists have that it might spill over and be applied to religious beliefs. Better in their minds that they remain easily led sheep.
TooManyJens
@Pancake: Did you ever answer the question of whether you are a previously-banned commenter going by a new handle? Specifically, whether you are the commenter whose former handle pissed on the memory of another commenter’s grandfather?
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus:
It should be one of the main points of education in general, along with a basic knowledge in various fields. However, our education system has moved more toward a “teach to the test” style of education rather than a critical thinking style. It’s hard to blame the schools for this move, as they are being judged by the results of the tests. But the downside is that critical thinking isn’t rewarded in the same way that test results are.
fasteddie9318
@SiubhanDuinne:
Plus it’s bullshit, since he wants you to remember the line as “Muslim life is cheap to Muslims” when what he actually wrote was “Muslim life is cheap, especially to Muslims.” The first makes a judgment on the value of Muslim life only as far as other Muslims perceive it. The other makes a value judgment about Muslim life, then tacks on the idea that Muslims think it too so it’s not in any way bigoted.
Omnes Omnibus
@Violet: Having gone through the International Baccalaureate program and then on to a liberal arts college, it is really the only form of academic education with which I had contact until I went to law school. I know this is one of the things that makes me a weirdo, but there you go.
SiubhanDuinne
@fasteddie9318: Yes, quite right. The meme is out there no matter how hard he tries to walk it back, and indeed the way he formulated that sentence is exceptionally weaselly.
burnspbesq
@jimBOB:
I imagine that if you had time to do the research, you could find evidence of Peretz getting this kind of hate on in 1967, if not earlier.
Ed Marshall
@burnspbesq:
Peretz, Martin. “The American Left & Israel.” Editorial. Commentary. 01 Nov. 1967.
Pancake
@TooManyJens:
Yes. I am not sure how anyone could really be guilty of disparaging someone who was a paid agent of the Soviets for much of his adult life, a fact confirmed numerous times in recent years by members of the former Soviet apparatchik.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
Ok, I laid into Peretz again: emilylhauserinmyhead.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/not-good-enough-marty-peretzs-apology/
I’m sure it’ll make a difference this time.
thalarctos
@Steve: Well, it is called the People’s Republic of Massachusetts for a reason, nyet ?
El Cid
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, well, I wasn’t. I don’t give a shit what people wrongly believed that Central America and Southern Africa were Soviet beach-heads and we had the right to decide what their governments would be.
Omnes Omnibus
@El Cid: Quoi?
El Cid
@Omnes Omnibus: These were the hawk and liberal hawk causes of the 1980s. Among which the New Republic‘s writers continually backed, albeit often calling for less blood.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why is it okay for Osama bin Laden to hate Jews but not okay for Marty Peretz to hate Arabs?
Omnes Omnibus
@El Cid: I came a little later than that. To the extent that I was a liberal hawk, it was in support of intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo. FWIW I also thought the 1991 Persian Gulf conflict was justified.
Also, your sentence was not particularly clear. Perhaps a few words were omitted in your haste to condemn TNR?
Cacti
Marty’s defense in short:
Just because I wrote it doesn’t mean I REALLY feel that way.
Someone needs his “First Amendment privileges” revoked.
El Cid
@Omnes Omnibus: I should have used “that” instead of “what”.
My thoughts on the Persian Gulf War are actually somewhat complex, and though the driving of Iraqi forces out of Kuwait (a massive, massive foolish overcalculation by Saddam who might have had some claim to move on the one slant-drilling operation) could be reasonable, in no way were the bombing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians or the slaughter of retreating troops in any way part of some international security actions.
So, to say I was in favor of the Persian Gulf War as it actually occurred would be false.
On Bosnia / Kosovo, I do recognize that there might have been legitimacy in arguments that the NATO military actions could have triggered worse atrocities, the debates were just far more intricate than I was closely following. And it wasn’t just a slaughter of civilians like most of the casualties of the Persian Gulf War, so beyond all its typical context in rotten establishment foreign policies, maybe it really did lead to a better situation.
I do note that the US seemed to have little to no interest in backing the large Serbian peace & dissident movements, whereas it is practically the sole funding of the lunatic Venezuelan opposition. (Lunatic not because it’s the opposition, but lunatic because they are just the crazy right wing which constantly throws away any ability to appeal to the majority in favor of some revanchist fantasy.)
liberal
@Omnes Omnibus:
I subscribed for a number of years; the main problem I had was that it was pretty boring most of the time.
vaux-rien
Can we get a Lemonheads reference for one of these Marty posts? I suggest “It’s enough to make you start to hate your friends”.