Has any other President had a self-described “base” who hated him more? Has any other President had a “base” that was constantly attacking him? Has any other President had a “base” that was excited at the idea of primarying him? If so, please fill me in, because I’m thinking a lot of people out there don’t have the first damned clue what constitutes “the base.”
Also, this is hands down my favorite Hendrix song.
Corner Stone
Somebody call the whaaaaambulance.
Oscar Leroy
“Waaaaaah! waaaaah! After I called liberals “fucking retards” and “they need to be drug tested”, now they are deriding me! It’s not fair! ! ! ! !! !! !! ”
Clearly, the Democratic base are people who were cheering on George W Bush 3 years ago. Please, people like that, lecture me on how to be a Democrat!
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Pappy Bush, who had the audacity to raise taxes.
fasteddie9318
…including, for example, most of the front pagers on this blog.
Raenelle
Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. Vietnam made people testy.
Corner Stone
My 6yr old whines less than this when I tell him he can’t play the Wii.
TominNola
Hamsher/Sirota 2012!
TominNola
Hamsher/Sirota 2012!
Hawes
Sure.
Jimmy Carter.
Maybe also, too, LBJ.
So we have the Frankenstein child of Nixon and Reagan to look forward to in 2012.
JohnR
Apropos of nothing in particular, sometimes you have to pick a fight you know you’re going to lose, simply in order to establish a position, demonstrate your principles, clearly mark out the state and position of your opponents, and show that you’re willing to fight. Doesn’t mean you have to pick Hood over Johnston, just that going down fighting is sometimes preferable to going down surrendering. Especially when you have a huge base of support which you can mobilize by demonstrating the need for it.
Tim
One might ask: Has America ever had a president who hated his base more? Has there ever been a president who more frequently betrayed and belittled his base?
As a side note, these “I must appear to back up ABL because she’s pouting because people have been so mean to her” posts are beneath you, Cole.
She’s not up to BJ standards, frankly.
Blue Neponset
1st) Spanish Castle Magic is the best Hendrix song
2nd) You are venturing into straw man territory here. I don’t hate Obama. I think he has made a mess of things with his bipartisanship uber alles take on the political landscape, but I certainly don’t hate the guy. I plan on voting for him in 2012.
THE
All your base are belong to us
August J. Pollak
Wait, so are stupid, unimportant liberal bloggers the legitiamate base now for the purpose of this particular straw man?
Because in the last thread those weren’t the base and didn’t matter. Now they’re the base because those are the people who all hate Obama.
It’s the magical “base” that’s only the “base” when you need to mock them for being the “base!” Schrodinger’s Liberal strikes again!
Make up your fucking mind, John.
Ajay
A base that just follows the leader is not good for leader, party or the country. One needs to differentiate between Bush/R morons and the D base; otherwise there is no difference between the two.
jacy
During the 8-year Bushapalooza debacle, progressives were outraged. They had a right to be outraged. If you were not outraged, you were not paying attention.
Now they are addicted to outrage. They never got their revenge. They never felt vindicated. They never felt they got justice. Nobody ever said to them, “I’m sorry, I was wrong, you were right.”
So now, if they ain’t screamin’, they don’t feel quite right.
I get the need for revenge or vindication, but if you’re going to kill your own people in pursuit of it, maybe a rethinking of your overall motivation and strategy is in order.
cleek
that’s what he gets for being elected in the time of the 60/60/24/7/365 news cycle and The Blog. now, people who love to complain can get together and bask in the stream of non-stop media, which invents, digests and abandons crises as quickly as people can type.
Obama gets to be the focus of a ravenous, bitchy, perpetual dissatisfaction which is aided by our ability to communicate this dissatisfaction instantly.
Corner Stone
You’re just like crosstown traffic
So hard to get through to you
EZSmirkzz
Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford all come to mind.
Let’s not overlook the fact that all criticism is not necessarily a bad thing either.
Violet
@Hawes:
She’s already out there. Her name is Sarah Palin. The good looks and folksiness of Reagan combined with the suspicion and paranoia of Nixon and plenty of empty-headed stupidity to round her out.
fasteddie9318
@JohnR:
You do that when you’re OK with putting up a good fight and losing. Extending unemployment benefits wasn’t the ground on which to have that fight, because it wouldn’t have been OK to lose it. And I say that with the caveat that not getting an extension of benefits for the 99ers out of this deal is basically fucking unconscionable.
That said, the new BJ meme that it will be liberals who are to blame for not getting DREAM and DADT passed is ridiculous. You could settle all other outstanding business and tack an extra 6 months onto this lame duck session, and neither one would get passed anyway.
Alex S.
Stop visiting FDL and DKos for a while.
stuckinred
@fasteddie9318: It was hot and you were subject to a bad case of lead poisoning.
Sue
I was very happy to see Obama finally call out Republicans yesterday on their behavior. The hostage comments were exactly right, even if Fox News is now saying that means that Obama is signaling to the Terrorists that they can now start grabbing American citizens off the streets of Hometown USA. The Dems who are outraged perhaps should have been working a little harder to deliver what Obama stepped up to cover. The primary-him idiots need to take a look around and realize there is no one worth running against him.
I have not been happy with Obama’s combined habits of remaining hands off and making comments that were too easily seen as placating Republicans. Now that he’s gotten in there, flexed a few muscles and shot off his mouth a little, I see some hope.
I belong to one of his bases. And I say about damn time.
mikefromArlington
Before he took over the WH, I remember reading a blog and someone mentioned that what will first happen, as happened with Clinton, is the left will turn on him, at least the vocal left that is.
I wish I could find that because he was dead on. I remember saying to myself nah, but sure as shit, here we are, worst President ever.
Seebach
@Tim: Has America ever had a president who hated his base more? Has there ever been a president who more frequently betrayed and belittled his base?
You beat me to it. Bastard.
Also, too: cyberwar update:
“Please be advised that MasterCard SecureCode Support has detected a service disruption to the MasterCard Directory Server. The Directory Server service has been failed over to a secondary site however customers may still be experiencing intermittent connectivity issues. More information on the estimated time of recovery will be shared in due course.”
” As more companies distance themselves from WikiLeaks, we would not be surprised to see additional attacks taking place over the coming days. Concurrent attacks against the online payment services of MasterCard, Visa and PayPal would have a significant impact on online retailers, particularly in the run up to Christmas.
Although denial of service attacks are illegal in most countries, Operation Payback clearly has a sufficient supply of volunteers who are willing to take an active role in the attacks we have seen so far. They are a force to be reckoned with. ”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-updates
Comrade Dread
Really now, because someone is upset about caving in on tax cuts, making a deal that extends unemployment benefits temporarily at the expense of further endangering Social Security, and vocal about it rather than smiling, thanking everyone for their capitulation, and asking if they can have another, they’re whiners?
While I suppose that’s slightly better than the GOP calling all of us who complained about the Bush agenda ‘traitors’, it isn’t exactly a great mindset to have.
Are people overreacting? Yeah, probably some. But this deal stinks to high heaven, and asking people to accept it because you’re worried about undermining the president isn’t a convincing argument, because, frankly, the congressional climate is just going to get worse, and people are honestly starting to believe that this president and this congress are going to start embracing the rest of the opposition’s long term agenda in exchange for a few cookies thrown their way.
John Cole
This post by me was straight up trolling. I put up a serious post earlier, with no snark, asking what the next phase would be if we do block this deal and all I got was butthurt, bullshit, and taunts. So why even bother doing anything but troll you all?
Nick L
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yep. Also, conservatives spoke about a primary challenge to Reagan after he raised taxes, FDR faced a primary challenge in 1936, and the Radical Republicans tried to primary Lincoln in 1864. Reagan was considered a sellout, FDR was considered too cozy with the finance industry, and Lincoln was accused of capitulating to slaveowners in the Union.
The anguished base of a transformative president is actually a common motif of American politics, since great change in America often requires a really ugly compromise (see health care reform & the health insurance lobby). As Obama is easily the most transformative president in 70 years, it’s really just history repeating itself (along with the Know-Nothingism of the Tea Party, massive societal change due to migration and economic pressure, etc.)
BR
Here’s what I think we need to stop doing – stop calling firebaggers and their kin “the far left”. I’m far left, probably further left by most metrics than them. And I don’t subscribe to their tactics.
I think the best description is from Nate Silver:
Now to be fair I guess there’s value in both styles of progressivism as Silver defines it. But I think I lean a bit more to the rational side, even while my views on what should be done are far to the left of typical radical progressives. Also, the end of that article is a reminder that firebaggers have been after Obama since even before he took office.
Hartford
Remember back in 2008 when some people were questioning whether a guy with no executive experience, little legislative experience (beyond voting “present”) and a token stint as a community organizer should be President of the United States?
Remember how we were told he has “intellecutal curiosity” and a “superior temperament” and he would bridge the divide of bipartisanship?
Good times.
You got suckered. No use crying about it now.
tweez
Y’all need to get a grip. What did you think was going to happen when Obama made this inevitable compromise? Sunshine and rainbows and puppy dogs from Jane Hamsher and Keith Olbermann? Don’t any of you guys have kids? Don’t any of you know how to deal with temper tantrums? Sheesh.
Dems and libs and progressives etc. are all gonna wind up voting for Obama in 2012 – they’re just blowing off steam right now. Their furious anger and righteous indignation will have approximately zero effect on the Democratic agenda, imperfect though it may be.
Oscar Leroy
@jacy:
That HAS to be the explanation. It’s the only possibility! Because president Obama sure isn’t doing any of the same things President Bush did, like locking up people without trial or wiretapping without warrants or cutting taxes for rich people or fighting endless and pointless wars or expanding offshore oil-drilling or privatizing education or threatening Social Security or covering up torture. . .
EdTheRed
@Raenelle:
+1 on LBJ
“Hey Hey, LBJ! How many kids did you kill today?”
Dude had so little support from his base he didn’t even bother running in ’68 once it was clear he was gonna be primaried.
Also, too, what did he ever do as Preznit, except single-handedly ram the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act through Congress?
Yaco
Speaking of the base, where the hell is DougJ?
shortstop
I’m really sick of talking about people who incessantly bash Obama from the left and even sicker of listening to them talk about themselves. And they never seem to stop fucking talking about themselves. You’re this close to being an enabler, Cole.
fasteddie9318
@jacy:
How does “revenge” or “vindication” factor in to it?
The tax cuts for the rich are bad policy, so progressives want to end them.
A public option as a gateway to single-payer is maybe the only way to get health costs under control in this country and craft a system that works for someone other than the wealthy elite, so progressives wanted a public option.
Not investigating Bush administration abuses of power sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations, so progressives wanted to investigate them. Continuing some of those abuses is prima facie wrong, so progressives have a problem with that.
I don’t think these disagreements with Obama on these issues can be tossed aside as some liberal wanking revenge fantasy. The fact that they’re, you know, the right thing to do in all these cases probably factors in there somewhere.
Mike from Philly
@tweez
The Democrats have an agenda? I agree with you though, nothing the people who elected them want will have an effect on what they’ll end up doing.
More war and tax cuts for billionaires please!
LTMidnight
Members of prominent African American blogs are planning to remind our white loud minority left brethren that they are not his true base. We are.
And any primary challenge to Obama will be done without us.
Lotsa fucking luck, White Progressives.
http://weeseeyou.com/2010/12/08/good-luck-white-progressives/#disqus_thread
Tractarian
John, are you doing some early boozing today? Because I think you’re a little bit out of control in this post.
Listen, I don’t think Obama deserves all the vitriol and contempt that he’s getting from the “professional left” — but you are implying that support for him should be unconditional. That’s ludicrous. When you support a candidate for president, you don’t get a tattoo stamped across your forehead saying “BASE”. People who supported Obama in 2008 (and people who have traditionally supported Democrats) are under no obligation to continue supporting him or the party.
Now, I happen to believe that Obama is doing (just about) the best he can under very difficult circumstances, and that it is extremely counter-productive to lambaste him for not being perfect, especially when the alternative is President Palin. But you really shouldn’t make it sound like people are bound to support him no matter what he does just because you have supported him in the past. This is veering very close to Bush-cult territory.
edit: “Straight-up trolling.” Ah, I see. Needs a “Straight-up Trolling” tag.
LarsThorwald
The quality of this one feels different to me, Cole.
I was as cynically bitter as anyone about the whole deification of the public option because the law that was passed made progress, even if it wasn’t perfect. That was a situation where the disparity was really one of perfect v. good, but in either event progress was made.
Here it seems to me there is absolutely no progress to be made, except with regard to unemployment extensions. But that is a really hard capitulation to swallow when you consider that UI extensions have never been an issue like this before.
I see the dilemma Obama is in. But for fuck’s sake, man, you don’t take your frustrations out on the people who worked — literally 9in my case) through driving snow — to get your ass elected. Save your hottest fire for the Republicans, which I haven’t seen.
What you saw in a very short time was the President freezing federal wages for no apparent reason, saying he didn’t work hard enough with a Republican contingent hellbent for leather on destroying him, and then yelling at his base for being sanctimonious — even though he told us to make him do it! I mean, for fuck’s sake! Those aren’t the actions of an ally, those are the actions of someone who thinks you are kind of a dick.
That’s the problem. Don’t compare the nonsense over HCR to this outrage. When die-hard Obama supporters like me are royally pissed, then it isn’t poutrage. It’s, what do you call it, outrage.
Shade Tail
The real interesting bit about all the whining coming from my fellow leftists is that, like the Reich Wingers, they seem to think they have the right to shit all over Obama and expect him to just take it.
Goodness forbid that he actually answer back to them and explain how he thinks they’re both ignorant and unrealistic. Never mind that most of them *are* ignorant and unrealistic.
Force the tax cuts to expire or get extended relief for the unemployed? That’s the choice Obama had before him. I don’t know that I entirely agree with his decision, but unlike so many other leftists, I can see why he made that decision.
And I can also see that he really did fight like hell to end the tax cuts, particularly in the month prior to the November election. He was pushing hard for it both with the public and with Congressional democrats. But the Congressional dems decided not to vote for it before the November election, when it could have been an effective cudgel. And so the chance to end the tax cuts died.
But it’s still Obama’s fault because he “didn’t fight for them” and “betrayed us” by “caving in”.
Ye gods above and below, make these idiots stop.
BombIranForChrist
Oh yeah, I remember that time that that Republican president went to a press conference and dressed down his base, calling them sanctimonious.
It’s practically a presidential traditional.
The Professional Left aka the Left that Disagrees with John Cole is clearly just a bunch of whining hippies who aren’t as serious as John.
Lisa
The people on the internet are not the democratic base. I have no idea who they are but I have never actually met anyone like them in real life. Normal people still kind of like Obama. They figure the country is just generally fucked for a while and are waiting for the incremental climb out of this hole. Various people might be disappointed about DADT or his not-so-aggressive dealings with Republicans. But they don’t hate him. Most people have a couple of jobs, families, and have no time for the hissy-baby navel gazing hysterics of the pampered class that inhabits the progressive internets.
The internets will be SHOCKED (SHOCKED) when their hysterics fail to get him primaried. All of us stupid, unwashed rubes will vote for him again like idiots (because we are stupid, or black or both) and they will be really angry and say that they are moving to Canada and turning Republican because Americans are so stoopid.
That’s all.
MBunge
@jacy: During the 8-year Bushapalooza debacle, progressives were outraged. They had a right to be outraged. If you were not outraged, you were not paying attention.Now they are addicted to outrage. They never got their revenge. They never felt vindicated. They never felt they got justice. Nobody ever said to them, “I’m sorry, I was wrong, you were right.”So now, if they ain’t screamin’, they don’t feel quite right.
It’s also a bit of overcompensation from the Left for how they whored themselves out to mindlessly prop up Bill Clinton, a President whose attacks on liberals and the progressive agenda go far beyond anything Obama’s ever done.
Mike
Blue Neponset
@John Cole: As I mentioned in the other thread, asking us to come up with plan b with two weeks left in the lame duck session is a bit much.
Give me six months, a seven figure consulting fee, nice office space in downtown Boston, John Yoo, and a kick ass cappuccino machine and I will come up with a plan b that will get you anything you want.
shortstop
@BR:
A-fucking-men. And they can quit slamming as “centrist” or “center-right” everybody who’s able to discern that “desire” and “possibility” are not synonyms.
TooManyJens
I finally watched the video and was amazed at the actual tone, as opposed to the imagined tone, of Obama’s remarks about the people who won’t accept anything less than purity. Where was the anger? Listening to people whine, you’d think he’d thrown a shoe at their heads.
@shortstop: Seconded.
Morbo
I prefer castles on sand.
Tim F.
George H.W. Bush.
shortstop
@shortstop (what’s with the editing function being out?): Meant to add: And there I go talking about them again. Damn me.
Oscar Leroy
@Shade Tail:
Who thinks this?
Athenae
Also, lots of them DEAD.
Can I just say I hate everything today? I don’t see any real reason I shouldn’t turn this whole Internet around and then NO ONE will go to Disneyland, okay?
*lays on floor and kicks and flails and holds breath till blue*
A.
srv
LBJ (primaried), Carter (primaried), 41 (primaried), and we hated Slick quite a bit too – but he ran on a hillbilly corporate/nafta schtick so it wasn’t like liberals were expecting any change or anything.
p.a.
I think it was the Kerner Commission that looked at the
Watts riot of 1965 and the ‘social unrest’ of the next few years. The original idea was something along the lines of ‘jeez, we just passed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, and this is the response!!!???’
Turns out, of course, that decades of oppression combined with rising expectations in the present and for the future can lead to some ‘interesting’ results.
And please don’t think I’m comparing what progressives have been through (or think they’ve been through) with the reality of racial oppression since the Civil War. I’m just saying there may be some of the same psychological factors at work.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I suspect every president has had a base that whined that he wasn’t doing enough. I doubt this group is any worse than the others. You don’t go to political blogs except to be around people that are like you, which just means the whining is concentrated. I wouldn’t get worked up too much about the level of whining. It being there at all is enough to talk about.
Tractarian
@Comrade Dread:
Obviously, you don’t know any unemployed people.
Lisa
I hope that the self-appointed base does not vote for him. I hope there is a showdown between the working class/black folks and the “internet fantasy base” of pampered hipsters. Then when he wins the primary, the internet “progressives” will form their own party called the “We are So Fucking Rad – Amirite?” party. And everyone will be happy.
shortstop
JFK loved that Millay poem. And you know what happened to him.
fasteddie9318
@Lisa:
Ding! Winner! Despite Cole’s apparent belief (when it suits his argument, anyway) that Obama’s base is filled with the Jane Hamshers and the Katrina van den Heuvels of the Left, this was never the case. Jane Hamsher is literally unknown to the vast majority of Obama supporters, and the fact is that every available piece of polling suggests that the core of the voting bloc that elected him two years ago is still behind him; he’s lost independent whites, which frankly is not a huge surprise.
Gebghis
For the last 2 elections, I contributed to Obama and to the Democratic Party. I am not happy with the tax cut extension – I’d rather let the cuts expire for everyone than allow the coming attack on Social Security. The battle is here and now. Obama should also be careful criticizing those of us on the left – a little bit of expressing understanding would go a long way. I don’t care what color he is – he ran on hope and change. Yes, health care reform – in 2014? DADT? Gitmo? Afghanistan?
Best…H
liberal
@jacy:
Piss off. We’re not stewing over past outrages, but rather new ones like Obama picking Geithner and Summers.
Oscar Leroy
@Shade Tail:
Question: has there been such difficulty getting extended unemployment benefits before that Obama needed to give something like tax cuts in return?
Says the guy on the internet. LOL!
x
I e-mailed my Senator, Congressman and POTUS in support of the deal.
It’s the best deal on the table. Real people need it to survive.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We have other fish to fry in this session.
LGRooney
@cleek: Your math is off! It should be 60/60/24/7/52 or 60/60/24/365. Unless you revolve a bit more slowly than the rest of us.
Tractarian
@srv:
And what did Obama run as? Hero liberal savior, or centrist consensus-builder?
Maybe you were confused as to what “Change” meant (hint: it didn’t mean instantly turning America into a Scandinavian liberal paradise), but that says more about you than it does about Obama.
jrg
Following your logic, John, any concern over the Bush deficit was really just concern trolling because we hated Bush.
I understand the need for stimulus. Hell, I even understand the need for bailing out the banks… But if you’re standing here saying that the only reason people are upset about the Obama tax deal is because they hate Obama, I’ll take that into consideration the next time you mention fiscal irresponsibility on the part of the GOP.
SFAW
Because you’re (allegedly) an adult?
I mean, really, John, that response had all the maturity of an eight-year-old kid.
I had kind of assumed that you had a relatively thick skin, since you need to have one to run a blog. (At least, one so bland as to be useless.) So what’s the story? Pissed because “Teh Left” (whatever that may be) isn’t falling all over itself to proclaim the tax deal is super-dee-duper, the best we could get, and Obama fought tooth and nail to kill tax-cuts-for-gazillionaires but couldn’t overcome the Rethugs?
It’s your blog, you can do what you want on/with it, but you need to lighten up a little more, Francis.
jaleh
I am disappointed, but I don’t see any other choice. People who voted in 2010 are the most vocal and they get what they want. If Dems want their way, then more people should get out and vote so Obama can get stuff pass through Congress. As far as I’m concerned “people spoke”, and this is the result.
What did we expect? We got a “shellacking”…
General Stuck
Thanky you president Obama for caring about poor Americans more than politics. And a pretty nice left hook on the watb’s
there may be hope for you after all Cole, nice post.
the internet takes up too much time better spent on other things more productive. I am an addict, and can’t do things in moderation. So no mo tubes for me, for a extended period of time. POTUS on XM is a great pol program, btw
I loves the folks I loves here, the rest can bite me.
mr. whipple
Little Wing.
Seebach
I guess here’s the deal, since I’m new to the Obama disillusionment brigade:
The point I lost faith in Bill Clinton is when he was SO OUTRAGED that the media wasn’t fairly attacking Obama, an outrage he never expressed about an illegal war, torture, or anything.
Why does Obama respect the Republicans who want to destroy him and kill him more than people who basically support him?
dollared
@JC
I really think there’s no need to troll us. You asked the right question in the previous thread. Do you really need high thread counts to justify your existence? The last few weeks on this blog have been corrosive and useless.
As long as we’re being transparent, I really don’t come here for the intra-blog conflict. I come here because I like to find like-minded people, share some ideas, and share world class snark. The raging anti-progressive conflict of the last two weeks, building on your feud with The New Hanoi Jane, has been a fucking waste of everyone’s time.
It’s time you remembered the common enemy as well. David Sirota is not the enemy. In the big war, he is a brigade commander whose judgment you question, but you should still guard his flank.
The enemy is over there, John, with a clear plan to defund Social Security, voucher your parents’ Medicare, eliminate your public schools, eviscerate what is left of the US industrial economy, and put all the proceeds in their pocket.
You are part of the whinefest by stoking the conflict. Find something better for us to spend our time on.
JMY
Mary Landrieu can eat a fat dick. “Moral corruptness?” O’Donnell’s takedown of her was brilliant.
Third Eye Open
Damn Cole, pissed that you caught a Rosy-nose on your tootsies during coitus? Did your expensive lettuce wilt?
This is how the American Century will end, not with a bang, but a 404-error. On the bright-side, I am pretty handy with a .308 and I can braid rope, so while the rest of the suburbanites are getting picked off trying to salvage from Wal-Marts, I will be laughing it up. If Fallout has taught me anything, it’s that you must aim for the combat inhibitors on Republican hoverounds, and then find a dark corner to hide in.
Mike Goetz
Obama’s actual base is rock solid.
The leftover Deaniacs, Clintonistas, Naderites, Kucinichoids, Edwardians, and assorted other bourgeois pencilneck television progressives are Obama’s problem, and a very, very small one indeed. They don’t matter, never have, never will.
Rick Taylor
@John Cole:
I wasn’t on when your last post went up, but since you seem sad, I’ll answer here.
First I don’t think we should block this deal. As much as it stinks giving into Republican blackmail, in my personal opinion the economy is too important. It’s a fair question how we got here, and who’s fault it is we waited until the lame duck to try to fix taxes, but now that we’re here, I think we need to take what we can get.
On the other hand, I would not be the least bit surprised if the Republicans scuttle the deal. They might turn around and decide that they just can’t support extending unemployment insurance without paying for it after all. If that’s the happens, I think we need to let it fail. We’ve gone far enough. And then the backup plan would be using politics to try to ensure the Republicans get the blame for the resulting shit storm. Not a very good plan, but I can’t think of another.
Tractarian
@Oscar Leroy:
Yep. Google “GOP blocks unemployment insurance extension”
TooManyJens
@x:
I called mine to tell them I hate it, and that if they think they can do better they should do it, but that going without an extension of UI and help for working people is unacceptable. I also told my Senators that they’re the ones I’m really pissed at because it’s the Senate’s fault we’re in this situation.
I don’t know what else to do. I’d love to call up Mitch McConnell’s office and take out my frustration on them, but that doesn’t seem like it would help.
cleek
just for fun, go read this 2006 Redstate thread. it came just before the 2006 elections, when GOP prospects were looking pretty bleak.
just look at how disappointed in the GOP and Bush they are.
here are some quotes:
get the idea?
Oscar Leroy
@Nick L:
“great change in America often requires a really ugly compromise (see health care reform & the health insurance lobby)”
What compromise was required for the New Deal, or the civil rights acts, or Medicare?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/04/60minutes/main7021844_page3.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
If you think Mitt Romney’s health care plan was a great, transformative measure, that’s your right.
Lisa
The internets do not….I repeat DO NOT represent real life at all.
I have never met a single person who ever heard of Glenn Greenwald or Jane Hamsher. And I work on a university with 40k students and 15k employees. I also get out a lot, do lots of local political work, and travel quite often.
Thus, my bullshitassed opinion is that no one cares what anyone says on the internet. Except those of us who fart around on the internet alot. Oh and maybe Dylan Ratigan.
LGRooney
@liberal: I’m still enraged about the past, as in the let’s-look-forward-and-ignore-past-potential-crimes mentality of DC; this gentlemanly understanding that presidents cannot directly insult past administrations. It’s part of the definition of banana republic in that leaders cannot be held responsible for the laws to which they are clearly not subjected. Beyond that, though, I thoroughly agree with the sentiments on non-stop whining because we have to get something done.
Now, an argue could be made that letting the whole fucking thing collapse in order to rebuild it based on past lessons would be a good thing and I am quite certain that the oligarchy counts on that not happening. Nonetheless, what good does relying on learning lessons from the past do us when we live among such freaking retards who think Reagan was an American hero, Oliver North was railroaded, and invading Iraq was the right thing to do?
WyldPirate
Perhaps the better question would be has there every been a President who hated his base more?
My “hope for change” has turned into “hope for avoiding utter national ruin”.
Moreover, I don’t expect the President to call his side “sanctimonius” and direct more fury at it than he does the people that are the root of his problem. I don’t expect him to “cede to Dem leadership” the issue of ending the tax cuts for the rich when that is his signature issue along with HCR.
He is the leader. He needs to lead. He’s not doing a good job of it. Even though that is the way I see it, I think it is stupid to primary him.
I won’t work for him again. Not one minute canvassing, not one minute making phone calls, not one minute volunteering to drive people to the polls. Not one. I had dinner with four people in I became friends with while volenteering for Obama in ’08. every single one feels the same way that I do and one knew several more that felt the same. This is in North Carolina where he won by a razor thin. I personally drove over 20 elderly black people to the polls to cast ballots during early voting and on election day.
So bigdeal right? WyldPirate is fed up–he’s a “hater” a “firebagger” a “paid GOP poster planted to piss off the BJ commentariet”, Damned malcontent fuck him, we don’t need him. Well there was 4 colleagues who worked their butts off that felt just like me is in one medium sized city in the NC. There are a lot of those cities in the South and across the country. The anger and frustration is apparently real. You folks can pooh-pooh it or not. Time will tell.
stuckinred
@mr. whipple:
Rainy day, rain all day
Ain’t no use in gettin’ uptight
Just let it groove it’s own way
Let it drain your worries away yeah
Lay back and groove on a rainy day hey
Lay back and dream on a rainy day.
Corner Stone
I’m wondering why they don’t just hold a vote on UI as a stand alone? Why agree it MUST be tied to the tax cuts?
If Republicans want to filibuster UI then let them.
At some point you have to stop providing cover to Republicans and conservative members of your party.
mclaren
You’re spewing crazy crap, Cole. Harry Truman’s base savagely attacked him for sending troops into Korea and for refusing to invade Europe to roll back the Iron Curtain. LBJ’s base ferociously attacked him for Vietnam to the point where Johnson had to abandon his run at the presidency in 1968. Woodrow Wilson’s supporters assaulted him for lots of things, including sending troops to Europe in WW I. FDR’s supporters ferociously attacked him for advocating entry into WW II.
You just don’t know your history, Cole.
Rick Taylor
And in the “not at all surprised category,” as much as Susan Collins supports repealing gays in the military, her conscience will compel her to vote against allowing it to be brought up for the vote, unless Reid agrees to allow Republicans to kill it through unlimited debate. As much as Susan Collins supports the rights of gay people, she supports the rights of her Republican colleagues in the senate more; they are after all the truly repressed minority.
jacy
@fasteddie9318:
I want all those things. You can’t always get what you want, and sometimes the things you can get, you don’t get as quickly as you want.
I’m just saying that the “bad as bush/obama hates us” wailing is counterproductive. I’m not saying don’t criticize. Criticism is vital. But to burn down the fucking house because some of the rooms are a shambles just leaves you standing outside in the snow.
The country is a tangled fucking mess. The media is shit. Congress is, for the most part, shit. 30% of the country is certifiably insane.
It’s going to take a long fucking time to fix stuff, while still trying to keep afloat the people who are seriously, seriously going under.
If people can find someone who can snap their fingers and instantly make everyone happy, great. But I think a lot of people just want a Don Quixote who’s going to tilt at their particular windmill.
ChrisWWW
Since 2002 Democratic voters have been told that George W. Bush was the devil because…
1) his war in Iraq was immoral and too costly
2) his tax cuts were an appalling giveaway to the rich
3) he assaulted the Constitution and our civil liberties
Obama has come into office on the back of that rhetoric and…
1) continued the war in Iraq
2) shielded Bush and his subordinates from criminal investigations
3) pushed to extend Bush’s tax cuts
4) gone even further in eroding our civil liberties, cementing the damage done by Bush
And you’re surprised people are upset at Obama? We’re talking about betraying foundational promises of the 21st century Democratic party…
Judas Escargot
@TooManyJens:
I’ve been one of the “Fight, Dammit!” brigade on this. And I still think that anyone who supports tax cuts for the wealthy forfeits their right to lecture anyone else on deficits, forever. (I’m looking at you, Rep. Ryan).
But it was his speech about the ‘hostage situation’ that changed my mind. Maybe this makes me a chump, a naif, or an O-Bot, but once I realized that the cost of that “principled stand” would be paid by those 2 million on UI, my perspective changed.
Once the issue was framed as a choice between “show ’em how tough I am” and “help keep 2 million people from living in their cars at xmas time”, all the politics of it suddenly seemed very… petty.
Tim
I continue to think it is weird that so many commenters here expect citizens to not only vote for politicians who claim to have their interests at heart, but then to actually DO the politicians’ job FOR them after they have taken office.
Bullshit and weak excuse making.
It is also weird to hear AA’s using GWB’s “soft bigotry of low expectations” as an argument for support of Obama. You’re to give him a pass because he’s mixed race…or something.
Mnemosyne
@liberal:
He picked Geithner and Summers two years ago. You have a very strange calendar if you consider that to be a new outrage.
Tonal Crow
This whine is so stale it wouldn’t tempt a raging alcoholic. If you have nothing to say, at least post a Tunch photo.
cleek
oh sure… waste my whole 5 minute edit time waiting for the fucking server to come back from the Submit.
Oscar Leroy
@Mike Goetz:
“Obama’s actual base is rock solid.”
So that’s why the mid-terms, which are a referendum on the president, went so well.
Tractarian
@Oscar Leroy:
Wow. Just…. wow.
Are you a spoof?
Bruce Baugh
@Oscar Leroy: Yes, actually, there really has been that much trouble with unemployment benefits. The Republicans flat out sank at least one extension, and I believe more, and at least one proposal for extension died quietly in committee when it became clear it’d get nowhere. The Republicans are really serious about not helping people out of work, and it probably does take a bribe this big – including the setup for a permanent reduction in Social Security later – to bring them over.
Which is incredibly and pathetically evil, and it sucks like hell for anyone to be stuck in the situation. I don’t think Obama’s handled it as well as he could or should have, but I also don’t think anyone at all could have gotten an actually good outcome, given the Republicans’ determination.
Rick Taylor
That last link was via Atrios, by the way.
Ash Can
@Mike Goetz: This. Which is why he called them out yesterday. While a few dozen bloggers run around losing their shit, a few million moderate, lower-info voters have a chuckle, and give the prez points for not being one of the wackos.
I think the problem here is that a lot of people are unclear on the definition of “base.”
TooManyJens
@Judas Escargot:
Yeah. And the Republicans are evil enough to make them suffer if they don’t get their bribe. Sucks, doesn’t it?
dms
@August J. Pollak: This.
Kinda like John’s stance that it’s only appropriate to hold Obama’s feet to the fire when John thinks it’s appropriate. He is, after all, the only grown-up.
You Don't Say
@JMY: Saw that. Loved it. Didn’t know she was one of a few Dems who voted for Bush tax cuts. Her hypocrisy knows no bounds.
"Fair and Balanced" Dave
@Blue Neponset:
To be fair, John just said “Castles Made of Sand” was his favorite. (IMO, the best Hendrix song purely from a songwriting point of view is “Little Wing” and for pure guitar wizardry I gotta go with “Voodoo Child (Slight Return)”).
I’m scratching my head trying to think of any instance where a political party actually benefited from a primary challenge to a sitting President. Just in my lifetime:
Gene McCarthy in 1968 against LBJ.
Ronald Reagan in 1976 against Gerald Ford.
Ted Kennedy in 1980 against Jimmy Carter.
Pat Buchanan in 1988 against Poppy Bush.
Oscar Leroy
@Corner Stone:
“I’m wondering why they don’t just hold a vote on UI as a stand alone? Why agree it MUST be tied to the tax cuts?
If Republicans want to filibuster UI then let them.”
Because shut up, that’s why.
@Tractarian:
That was eventually passed, though. I wasn’t clear enough.
MBunge
@mclaren: Harry Truman’s base savagely attacked him for sending troops into Korea and for refusing to invade Europe to roll back the Iron Curtain. LBJ’s base ferociously attacked him for Vietnam to the point where Johnson had to abandon his run at the presidency in 1968. Woodrow Wilson’s supporters assaulted him for lots of things, including sending troops to Europe in WW I. FDR’s supporters ferociously attacked him for advocating entry into WW II.
And not getting a public option and extending tax cuts for the rich for two years are just as bad as any of that!
Mike
El Tiburon
Another factor that needs to be taken into account is the rise of the internet and bloggers.
Obama is truly the first President of the “Blogging” age. Yes, it came to age while Bush was President, but Obama is truly of this age.
The ability now for opinion leaders (professional left or whatever) to get their thoughts out there can’t be misunderestimated.
Take Krugman as an example. 10 years ago I probably only had a passing idea of who he was. Now, I know instantly what his thoughts and ideas are and see them dissected across the blogosphere.
My point is that for millions of Americans (myself included) I probably would not have the knowledge to really make an informed decision on Obama. It would come mostly from the MSM.
So this is probably a new feature of modern politics: millions more informed* and knowledgeable* and vested citizens.
*except for many of the morans who read this blog.
Morat20
First, you’re obviously WAY too new to being a Democrat. This is how the party functions. “I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Democrat” isn’t an old joke for nothing.
Secondly, it’s become obvious that used-car salesmen make the bulk of their profits off Democrats. We can’t negotiate for crap.
Thirdly, compromise is all well and good. But part of compromise is public opinion. I realize it can be difficult to firmly and publically establish your position and then, you know, compromise on it without looking weak. But walking up to the table, trashing your own positions in an effort to ‘compromise’ before the other side opens it’s mouth not only makes you look even more weak, but it costs you.
And lastly — and most importantly — screaming by the base is how pressure is kept on politicians to do what their constituents want, rather than whatever is easy or profitable for them.
You can punch hippies all day long to keep Matthews and Klein happy, but then the hippies don’t turn out to vote for you. Blaming the hippies at that point seems a bit…dumb.
*shrug*. Look, either Obama is right and his base doesn’t appreciate all the awesome stuff he got for them that no one else could — or the base is right that he’s totally sold them out and only gotten a fraction of what he should. (Or, and this is a shocker, probably some of both). Either way, telling the base to “SHUT UP AND CLAP LOUDER, BITCHES” will not actually help matters for either the base OR Obama.
Which just makes it hippy punching for the sake of punching hippies. Trashing his base isn’t going to help him, regardless of whether they’re ingrateful bastards or not.
Comrade Dread
@Tractarian: Oh, come on.
Yes, I’ll be happy about people getting enough money for food, rent, and bills.
But getting that for one year, in exchange for more debt, a payroll tax break (that will also likely come under fire to make this permanent, which will start defunding SS), and shadowy promises to maybe sort of let other legislation come to vote isn’t exactly a great freakin’ deal.
It’s very much akin to promising to hand over all of your money to an arsonist so he won’t burn your bloody house down for a year.
Citizen_X
Actually,Obama’s still quite popular with the real Democratic base. (Not being snarky, for once.)
It’s just that, in cyberspace, everybody can hear tiny minorities scream. Constantly. Consider Libertarians and Paultards: is there any comment section in all the internets where they can be avoided? And how did that work out for Ron Paul in the 2008 primaries? Did he ever exceed 1% of the vote?
MBunge
@El Tiburon: So this is probably a new feature of modern politics: millions more informed* and knowledgeable* and vested citizens.
Informed? Yes. Knowledgeable? Not Really. Witness all the people who viciously trash Obama’s skill as a negotiator when they have never really negotiated anything in their entire lives. They have no practical knowlege of how negotiation is supposed to work, but they’re well informed as to how Obama theoretically sucks at it.
Mike
plasticgoat
Read the Democratic Party Platform. Watch the you-tube videos of 2008 campaign and the promises made. Might give you a clue.
WyldPirate
@shortstop:
Protips:
1. Quit reading this blog.
2. Read another blog that validates your view only.
3. Start your own personal echo chamber.
Oscar Leroy
@Tractarian:
Humor me.
Mnemosyne
@TooManyJens:
Yep. Apparently calling the Republicans “terrorists” and saying that they’re holding the American people hostage so their rich friends can get tax cuts is being polite and making nice, but spending 8 minutes out of a 30 minute press conference also talking about the people supposedly on his side who keep mucking things up is OMG WORST INSULT EVAH!
Howlin Wolfe
@Blue Neponset: This.
Jules
I’m his base.
I used to call myself a progressive, but not anymore.
I’m not pissed or freaking out…but then I live in the real world where compromise happens.
My parents are his base…they think progressives are morons for the freak out.
My friends who are Dems who do not inhabit the intertubes have no idea why anyone is complaining. They seem to think something is better then nothing, but then they are all folks with kids and houses to pay for and they can’t go home to mom and dad if things don’t work out or the unemployment runs out.
It would have been awesome if Congress had done their job in the first place, but they didn’t so now the president is forced to make a deal that gives the republicans what they want so he can get done what needs to be done for the unemployed and the working/middle class.
Oh and it is amazing how Progressives/Liberals have become oh so worried about the deficit in just the last 2 days.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Oscar Leroy: What compromise was required for the New Deal, or the civil rights acts, or Medicare?
Didn’t universal health care get dropped to pass the New Deal?
ETA: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/a_brief_history_universal_health_care_efforts_in_the_us.php?page=2
FDR’s Committee on Economic Security, the CES, feared that inclusion of health insurance in its bill, which was opposed by the AMA, would threaten the passage of the entire Social Security legislation. It was therefore excluded.
Kryptik
@Rick Taylor:
I gotta say, this crap is exactly why I have so many goddamn doubts about the tax cut compromise. Even the ‘sensible’ Republicans pull the football out when you give them what they want. If the compromise is something they actually accept, then house money says you got fuckin’ rolled.
Oscar Leroy
@Citizen_X:
So that’s why so many people responded to his calls for support in the 2010 midterms.
Nick L
@Oscar Leroy:
For the New Deal, FDR compromised with Dixiecrats and conservatives in order to keep blacks, farmers, federal employees, and many other workers out of Social Security; FDR was opposed to the FDIC, he wanted the WPA to offer employment to every American who asked and to make it permanent (a good idea IMHO), and froze federal pay, along with many other more minor conservative concessions. Really, FDR’s pre-war presidency was a compromise between socialists and conservatives.
Re the Civil Rights Act: I’m not too sure about the history, but it’s significant that there have been multiple Civil Rights Acts over the decades, each more satisfactory than the prior. Sounds like progress via compromise to me.
As for Medicare, it was a compromise: LBJ wanted single-payer.
Also too, FDR and LBJ had well over 65 Democrats in the Senate when they made their impact.
Seriously, history is key, and American history is all about compromise.
Matt in HB
Perhaps this has been done before, but . . . speaking of Jimi
Manic progressives are touching my soul
They know what they want but they just don’t know
How to, go about gettin’ it
Anger, raw anger,
Drops from their fingers, fingers
Manic progressives are catchin’ my soul
Barry so weary, the sweet cause in vain
You make deals, you break deals
It’s all the same
When it’s, when it’s over, mama
Anger, raw anger,
I wish I could obsess, obsess
Manic progressives are a frustrating mess
Well, I think I’ll go turn myself off,
And go on down
All the way down
Really ain’t no use in me hanging around
In your kinda scene
Anger, raw anger,
I wish I could obsess, obsess
Manic progressives are a frustrating mess
jaleh
“Most people have a couple of jobs, families, and have no time for the hissy-baby navel gazing hysterics of the pampered class that inhabits the progressive internets.
Says the guy on the internet!”
I AM THAT!
I am getting ready to go skiing. I live in the mountains and I have a husband who supports me. I agree with the post above, most people don’t pay attention to the hissy fit, I do, because I have time. I am disappointed in Obama, but I still support him.
I’ll be back after 4PM (MT)…
It’s a beautiful day in CO. Lots of snow and sunny, the best place on earth, IMO…
Mnemosyne
@Morat20:
How many people here have been calling and screaming at their senators — you know, the people who are actually holding things up — instead of screaming about how Obama is completely to blame for the Senate’s actions?
I realize it’s much easier to focus your anger on the president because he’s one guy, but when you’re screaming at him because the Senate isn’t doing its job, you’re the drunk searching for his keys under the streetlight because that’s the easiest place to look. Screaming at Obama for the Senate not doing its job is, frankly, useless. But it feels good and it’s easier than having to call two senators, so people do it anyway.
Deb T
I think more Democrats like Obama than don’t like him. We just don’t get the press. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he a politician? You betcha. I think his tax compromise was a savvy move. If the Dem congress can do better, go for it. Make Republicans rue the day they so shamelessly championed the rights of the rich over everyone else.
There’s an article in Salon today on just this very thing – that more liberal Democrats like Obama than not – like 80%. It’s just that our broken news squawking heads have more fun endlessly mimicking the extremes. Democrats have always been at each others throats. I remember the late 60ies and early 70ies when the moderates were afraid of the young radicals.
Keep the faith baby.
cleek
@Mnemosyne:
cite?
lacp
“…and then a sight she’d never seen made her jump and say
Look, a public-option health bill is passing my way.
And it really didn’t have to stop, it just kept on going.
So castles made of sand
Slip into the sea
Eventually.”
goblue72
@Tractarian: This deal stinks to high heaven AND I personally know unemployed people. And sadly, they’ll likely be unemployed 13 months from now as their skill set is in incredibly low demand and possibly no longer needed – and by the time their field recovers enough, they’ll have been out of work so long that statistically, they’ll have close to no chance in getting their old jobs back. Luckily, if you can call it that, they are young enough to go back to school or start over in a new field entirely.
So all several more months of UI gets them is a delay in the inevitable. Much like foreclosure moratorium and mortgage workouts have proven to be utter failures and just raised false hopes and delayed the inevitable.
We need real structural reform in our economy & everyone here is willing to just sell off our country in exchange for scraps.
Oscar Leroy
@Xecky Gilchrist:
“Didn’t universal health care get dropped to pass the New Deal? ”
We may be saying the same thing, but FDR thought about including it with his Social Security bill. He thought it wouldn’t make it through, though, so he decided not to in the end.
Andrew
Yes – this happens to virtually every Democratic president. The vocal left goes apesh*t (sometimes with justification).
Clinton, Carter, LBJ, Truman. Even some with JFK and FDR.
And actually – although we’ll see if recent events cause it to take a hit – Obama’s ratings among self-described Democrats are higher than Clinton’s, Carter’s, or LBJ’s at comparable points in time.
Jeff
I obviously know where you’re coming from John, but I think the tone of the commenters is right. FireDogLake isn’t the base. It’s just a couple hundred people. They are clamoring for a primary challenge (or not–Hamsher certainly isn’t)–the base isn’t. If the base was, it would probably happen. They’re not, so it won’t.
Mnemosyne
@Oscar Leroy:
Are you fucking kidding me? The compromise to get the New Deal was to allow African-Americans to be murdered with impunity in the South. Plus Social Security was deliberately written to exclude as many of them as possible.
Jesus fuck, learn a little fucking something about fucking history before you go blathering around about how the New Deal didn’t require any fucking compromise, you fucking moron.
Jules
@JMY:
I thought O’Donnell was bang on last night.
He sure dealt with Jane and her BS…..
J.W. Hamner
Out of curiosity how close are we to a “# of comments in a 24 hour period” Balloon Juice record?
It seems like there are 150 comments before I even notice a new post is up.
Anyway, this emo nonsense makes me nauseous. If you need somebody to tell you how special and wonderful you are, then call your significant other… or parents… or best friend. The fact that so many progressives need daily affirmations from the President is extraordinarily pathetic.
Mnemosyne
@Oscar Leroy:
Oh, and to answer your other question, the compromise required to pass Medicare and the Civil Rights Act was escalation in Vietnam. That worked out real fucking well for everyone, didn’t it?
Xecky Gilchrist
@Oscar Leroy: Gotcha, that is what I’m saying.
Sarcastro
The plain fact is that we all need to work together to END the Republican party as anything but a regional power. Then we can amicably split into a center-left and center-right party and maybe get some shit done. Capitulating to hostage taking Republicans who specifically said they expected Obama to “cave” on this issue is not how we go about doing this.
You dare – double dog dare – the Republicans to kick millions off of UI at Christmas time in order to get more for the rich, and if they actually do stand by their so-called principles you pound them for it (who knows if they will? we’ve never pushed them on it!). You give them enough rope (something the Dems are good at) and then you yank that rope tight so they hang. Alas, that’s something the Dems seem to be constitutionally incapable of doing so what we’ve got is a Republican wholesale rope outlet.
But, for the time being, we on the rational left yell and bitch to make our voices heard in the hopes that our representatives will make a bad deal better. This is how politics work in the not-authoritarian-bootlicker part of the electorate. It’s odd that you can’t seem to wrap your head around this John, but most centrists do seem to have some serious daddy issues so it’s not entirely surprising.
Gus
Castles Made of
SandStrawFTFY.
Gay Veteran
But the “base” owes Obama thanks for all he has done recently:
troops in Afghanistan until at least 2014
another neo-liberal “free trade” agreement (with South Korea) shipping American jobs overseas
and now a tax “compromise” leaving ReThugs cheerful and Democrats despondent
WOO HOO!!!
WyldPirate
@Comrade Dread:
Suffern ACE
I’m not certain he actually had a base of any sort, but Andrew Johnson certainly didn’t get much love from anybody.
Stooleo
I can understand all the anger directed at Obama for the terrible decision that he was forced to make, but perhaps the anger would be better focused on the Republicans that precipitated this “Sophie’s Choice” situation in the first place.
Oscar Leroy
@Mnemosyne:
I’m the one who throws tantrums?
So, FDR said “if you Southern senators vote for my New Deal, I’ll allow lynching to continue”? No, he did not, and your link doesn’t even make that case.
So, LBJ said. . .
Are you arguing against needless compromise? Becuase I am, too.
Citizen_X
@Oscar Leroy:
He wasn’t running.
Sorry, but we’re Democrats. Our demographics don’t tend to show up to vote in midterms under Dem Presidents. Them’s the breaks.
Mnemosyne
@cleek:
Sorry, shouldn’t have put the quotes in that spot. He called them “hostage-takers“:
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@mikefromArlington: Who turned on who first? Or don’t you remember stuff like NAFTA?
Mnemosyne
@Oscar Leroy:
He agreed to not support anti-lynching legislation. Are we now going to play word games where you insist that just because Roosevelt agreed not to support it, that means he actually supported it because shut up, that’s why?
The New Deal and Social Security were passed on the backs of African-Americans. The fact that you keep trying to diminish that reality says a whole lot about you.
TooManyJens
@Stooleo: I agree. Can we get a thread going for “what are we going to do to the Republicans to make them pay?”
WyldPirate
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, but Obama was praising this very act the other day as being part of the “Art of the Possible” and a “starting point”.
.
Obama has done the equivalent of the same thing in many respects. No, it didn’t directly result in deaths, but it can indirectly. IT deepens the yawning gulf between rich and poor. It is going to result in a call to cut services to the poor. It will further dampen social mobility. There is a real danger that the payroll tax will be compromised for a long time resulting in lower benefits and many millions of future recipients teetering on the brink of poverty in the second most vulnerable stage of life.
Having no spine can have consequences,, too
cleek
@Mnemosyne:
hmm. ok.
wingnuts everywhere are saying he called the GOP “terrorists”. i’ve seen no evidence of this.
jman
Uh…besides Lyndon and Jimmy did you ever think that one of the jobs of a leader is to like, keep the troops together. You know, keep the train on the track? Oh Nos, something must have gone wrong! Do you think the leader of the Democratic party playing patty cakes with the republicans and failing to include the Democrats is going to go over big and make him the best Preznit ever?
Cris
Whoops wrong thread
TooManyJens
I think this is we’d all like to see Obama do to the GOP:
http://wins.failblog.org/2010/11/17/epic-win-photos-man-bear-win/
kindness
I’m kind of partial to ‘Voodoo Child’ but ‘Little Wing’ is completely sweet as well.
Has any modern President ever shredded his base with the frequency that President Obama (& his staff) have?
Where it matters…..well, you ain’t gonna get independents and Republicans to knock on doors for him come 2012.
john b
@Oscar Leroy:
“What compromise was required for the New Deal, or the civil rights acts, or Medicare?”
are you really that dumb?
how about you look up what medicare was when it started and what it is now?
or look up the enforcement mechanisms in the original form of the civil rights act.
or the actual number of years the new deal took to really build up steam.
Oscar Leroy
@Mnemosyne:
“The New Deal and Social Security were passed on the backs of African-Americans. ”
Look, the link you yourself posted says that southern Senators held the anti-lynching act hostage. What could Roosevelt do?
Social Security, the FDIC, the WPA, the Wagner Act, and the NRA, were all passed by this time anyway, so one can hardly say the anti-lynching law had a bearing on them.
“The fact that you keep trying to diminish that reality says a whole lot about you. ”
Who knew that “I disagree with Mnemosyne’s reading of history” makes one a racist?
mclaren
So here’s a question for all you obots:
What’s the difference between a Sarah Palin presidency and Barack Obama’s presidency?
Name one policy that would be different if Sarah Palin were president.
Name.
One.
You can’t.
Sarah Palin would extend Bush’s tax cuts for the billionaires. So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Sarah Palin would ferociously attack Wikileaks. So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Sarah Palin would send death squads to murder American citizens who have never even been charged with a crime. So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Sarah Palin would give the financial criminals on Wall Street a free pass, tons ‘o money, and wouldn’t throw any of ’em in prison. So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Sarah Palin would call for the repeal of HCR legislation. So what? The Supreme Court will repeal it any day now.
Sarah Palin would send more American troops into pointless lost wars on the other side of the earth. So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Name one policy that would be different under a Palin presidency than under an Obama presidency.
You can’t. There isn’t one. Not. Even. One. Policy.
The only difference with a Palin presidency is that her speeches would be an incoherent word salad. Whereas Obama’s speeches soar with eloquence.
So what?
Who cares what the speeches sound like if the policies are the same?
Gay Veteran
Some more things the “base” owes Obama thanks :
freeze Federal pay and getting NOTHING in return from the ReThugs (hey Obama, I’ve got a bridge to sell to you, dumbass)
having his Justice [sic] Department argue in court that he had the authority to kill Americans without due process
appealing court decisions regarding DADT and DOMA (and NO, he did not have to appeal, and good luck getting Gays to vote for Obama)
Oscar Leroy
@john b:
“are you really that dumb?”
Wow, what a mature and well-informed argument.
Okay.
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/2000%20Files/Aug%2000/FTR-08-04-00MedCarHistry.htm
So, Medicare started out covering the elderly and was expanded. Got it.
4jkb4ia
From the commentary floating around, which includes Matt Bai, I would have to guess Carter. Of course Carter is the first president I remember and my parents stuck with him the entire time. But the idea of Ted Kennedy had to be powerful with the liberal base because this was his third chance to run.
I know what John is saying but these people are Obama’s base in the sense that they all voted for him with much less disillusionment and in the sense that they will not support a Republican opponent. If they coalesce on drafting someone for 2012, they won’t be Obama’s base anymore.
I doubt that Stuart Zechman is reading this but progressive ratfucking by supporting Bloomberg is not an idea I would support. Bloomberg cannot force Obama to the left or to substantively defend his record on civil liberties or job creation.
tomvox1
These people are not his base, whatever they claim. They are folks who voted for Obama grudgingly (if at all) because their preferred candidate lost and they loathed W. Bush. Many are former Hillary supporters with a big chip on their shoulders and a few had a huge hard-on for Edwards’ healthcare proposals…which would have been great, I grant you, but knowing what we know about Johnny’s wretched moral character, I’m not sure pining for him is the best strategy (yes, I’m looking at you Professor Krugman).
On the Hendrix: For me, picking a favorite Hendrix tune is like picking one favorite from the Beatles or Dylan. Can’t really be done. I like Castles but I think if I had a gun to my head I would have to go with Bold As Love because of the awesome phase effects or All Along the Watchtower because it is THE greatest cover in the history of Rock and Roll…plus it’s a twofer, being both Hendrix and Dylan. (How many artists actually made Dylan better? Only Hendrix and The Byrds, IMO.) Of course the entirety of Electric Ladyland will also work…as long as you’re tripping balls on acid.
jaywillie
@August J. Pollak: Those are the people who go around screaming, “We’re the base, we’re the base! Pay attention to us! We hate you!” How do you not pick up on Cole’s sarcasm? Hint: “self-described” is a key word here (I recommend Dictionary.com if you’re having difficulty with that one).
But imagine – a politician’s base supporters are – gasp – people who actually support him and not those who descend into hysterics after every decision.
Of course, the base clearly isn’t the 80% of liberals, 90% of blacks, 85% of Dems, majority of 18-49, majority of Latinos, and majority of Women who support him. No, it’s clearly the 5-10% demanding that the other 90-95% of the party do exactly what they want, always and forever, so you’re probably right.
FormerSwingVoter
I’m fighting the good fight over at the GOS.
Wish me luck.
Oscar Leroy
@john b:
“or the actual number of years the new deal took to really build up steam. ”
Huh?
“or look up the enforcement mechanisms in the original form of the civil rights act.”
Like what?
chopper
@Corner Stone:
don’t tell me, your 6 year old screams and whines, tells you he hates you, then when you yell back and tell him to knock it off he goes ‘hey! is this any way to treat your biggest supporter?’
Oscar Leroy
@Gay Veteran:
Clearly, you don’t see how things work around here. A clearly-written, cogently explained list of actions isn’t it. Maybe you should just call people “idiot” or “jerk” and say “you are dummm!” (spell things wrong; regulars on this board like that) That’s how you argue the Balloon Juice way.
brendancalling's not a racist just because racist Lisa says he is
all I know is i’ve been getting emails all day from people who typically tell me i hold obama to too high a standard and that I’m a firebagger telling me how angry they are.
most of these people are not bloggers and all of them, until yesterday, were highly supportive of Obama. they don’t like the deal, they see it as capitulation, and they noticed immediately that he called out the left, while saying very little about how awful the republicans have been.
One guy is a director of HCAN in Pennsylvania, who is on record calling me a rigid idiot for being upset about the public option.
Oscar Leroy
Jman, we’re supposed to follow Obama no matter what. Blind obedience is the key. If we support whatever he does, whether it’s good or bad, he will thank us by doing good things. Or something. Plus–look over there! Sarah Palin! Oooh, she’s scary, isn’t she! If you
step on a crack you’ll break your mother’s backstop blindly applauding everything Obama does, she’ll become president!Tom Q
To Oscar Leroy, who apparently views history through the rose-colored hue of “everything happened at once, with no effort required”:
The New Deal emerged in pieces, not full-blown. And, as many have mentioned over the past year, Social Security when initially implemented only included small prtions of the population — most emphatically excluding African Americans. Apparently Wyld Pirate — consistently in his idiocy — thinks FDR should have refused to sign such a limited bill. Hint: the alternative — like with health care this year — wasn’t the bill of your dreams; it was NOTHING.
As for Civil Rights — start by asking, which Civil Rights bill? Do you guys even know there were tepid predecessor bills prior to 1964? That LBJ, as majority leader, passed a bill in the late 50s that was lambasted by your pissy-left ancestors as weak tea — but that nonetheless broke a century-long veto power the Southern states had had on “the Negro question”?
As for the landmark ’64 bill…I don’t have a link (Google it if you’re interested in edicating yourself), but the NY Times ran a story a year ago itemizing all the steps LBJ had to take to win one battle after another. The damn thing went through several committees, each requiring some bribe or another to get the votes (LBJ would have done six Cornhusker kickbacks before breakfast — and the press didn’t treat it as treason the way our current group characterized the Obama/Nelson agreement).
So, to answer your breathtakingly uninformed question: every piece of legislation in American history has required compromise — the more ambitious the bill, the more give and take there was . If you truly don’t understand that, your opinion on matters political is worth approximately zero.
mclaren
I’m still waiting for the obots to tell me what policies would be different under a Sarah Palin presidency as opposed to a Barack Obama presidency.
Tick…tick…tick…
The obots scream and tear their hair and shriek “Are you insane? Palin would attack science!”
So what? Obama’s already doing that.
Source: “We’re Waiting, Mr. President,” New Scientist, 2010.
I’m still waiting.
Name me one policy difference between Obama and Palin, obots.
C’mon.
Name one.
Just one.
So why is the base of the Democratic party supposed to support Obama when his policies are exactly the same as the most extreme Republicans?
catclub
Early in 2008, I remember an article on Obama about how he was actually pretty consistent in NOT pandering to whatever the audience happened to be on any particular day.
I suspect he prides himself on this facet – ‘I will speak to my base as adults.’ So this behavior is not actually new or very surprising.
In comparison, all George Bush had to do was tell his far right christian supporters that he was humble man (hah!) who was divinely chosen to be president – there was no particular policy that he had to make progress on with them, and they were happy with him. The things he did for them were primarily executive orders rather than getting laws passed.
Obama’s supporters are much more issue oriented in terms of having particular legislation in mind. There is a much more clear scorecard for us.
chopper
@Citizen_X:
exactly. the interwebs have this ability to overrepresent loud, obnoxious histrionic people. that’s how pundits and manic progressives became such a frustrating mess – they convinced themselves that they are obama’s base even though no one in the real world even knows who they are.
you hang out on the internets and you start to think 1 out of every 5 people must be a libertarian. not really, they’re just the sort of people who hang out a lot online and won’t fucking shut up about ron paul.
4jkb4ia
To defend Obama’s record. That looked obvious enough but Ajax is slow.
@28: I know I made the point that if you don’t do something now what you will get from the Republican House will be worse.
I am now feeling more hopeful that if you can get 40 senators to stand against this WHO WILL BE HERE NEXT YEAR the Republican leadership will begin to feel that they overreached. They will know that they can’t get the tax cuts for the rich even with the sweeteners if there are 40 Democratic Senators who refuse to consider it. I haven’t seen if that is logical because some of the 12 who will vote for the plan are certainly people like Bayh who are gone. But that is just the tax cuts. Will the Republicans throw a fit if New START etc. comes up and nothing on the tax cuts has passed? Then there isn’t a Plan B.
Mnemosyne
Eleanor Roosevelt begged him to support a federal anti-lynching law and he refused. So your choices are either that Roosevelt bargained the rights of black people away to get his agenda passed or he hated black people and did everything he could to hurt them in the middle of the Great Depression. Which one is your choice?
If you make me slap my forehead at your stupidity one more time, I’m going to get a concussion. It never occurred to you that maybe those things passed because FDR agreed not to support the pending anti-lynching law? Nah, cause and effect is a myth, so clearly the two things were completely unrelated even though contemporary accounts say that they were. Clearly absolutely no compromises whatsoever were made to pass the New Deal because you have decreed it so in Oscarland.
Here in reality, the New Deal and Social Security were passed on the backs of black people. And, yes, if you ignore or diminish that fact, it makes me wonder why you’re so desperate to try and pretend it happened any other way.
Raenelle
@EdTheRed: Despite the fact that Lyndon Johnson rammed through such important pieces of legislation as the Civil Right and Voting Rights Acts, Martin Luther King, Jr., still turned against him in 1967 because of Vietnam.
I’m sure Johnson felt betrayed when he had sacrificed so much Democratic political capital to advance the cause of African Americans. But some issues are just too big to be ignored. Vietnam was one of them. In our time, predatory capitalism and the crazed Republican vendetta against all things to the left of Rush Limbaugh–those issues are pretty fricking important.
My problem with Obama is that he doesn’t seem to understand either of those issues.
The Bobs
@John Cole:
Thank you John.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
to be fair, in oscarland obama is the only president ever who has made compromises on anything big. all stupid facts to the contrary are ignored. social security as we know it sprung forth fully formed from FDR’s brow one april morning in the mid thirties.
J.W. Hamner
@mclaren:
Are you suffering from a head injury?
Nobody is addressing your point because it is utter lunacy… but I’ll through you a bone in syntax you can understand:
We. Would. Be. At. War. With. Iran.
Got it?
Not even to mention that President Palin would have vetoed every single bill out of Congress.
4jkb4ia
Let us try again. With President Palin, no pressure on settlements, anywhere.
mclaren
@catclub:
Actually, all Obama has to do is speak some elegant progressive words, and people like John Cole fall all over themselves proclaiming what a great job Obama has done as president…even as Obama extends Bush’s wars and extends Bush’s most heinous violations of the constitution and continues Bush’s tax cuts and continues Bush’s coddling of the financial criminals and continunes Bush’s war on science.
The similarities between Bush and Obama are eerie.
Bush merely had to mouth some biblical boilerplate and the Christian kooks who supported him erupted in wild applause. Obama merely has to mouth some progressive boilerplate and the centrist kooks who support him clap their hands raw cheering him.
Meanwhile, Obama consistently does the exact opposite of what he says.
There comes a point at which systematic lying and betrayal stops being an attractive trait in a politician, and Obama has reached that point.
ChrisWWW
@chopper:
I love how extended unemployment insurance for a few months is the new New Deal.
calling all toasters
Dear John Cole–
Ford. Carter. Bush I.
That’s just in my adult life.
You’re welcome.
Or, if your post was a rhetorical question, up yours.
ChrisWWW
@mclaren:
But… but… he’s Pragmatic!
NR
@Comrade Dread:
Not to mention the fact that Obama’s deal raises taxes on poor people.
shortstop
@WyldPirate:
It’s actually possible to be weary of a particular set of negative behaviors constantly repeated by a specific group of people without finding it necessary to have one’s every belief validated and applauded by everyone one encounters. Understanding this, however, requires being able to process information and dialogue in other than grossly binary, mutually exclusionary and totally self-referential terms, and while that doesn’t require a great deal of intellectual subtlety, it’s demonstrably beyond your abilities.
Put another way: You’re not a particularly good representative of the entire body of diverse opinion that lies outside what you suppose to be my “worldview.” I know you’ll never get this, but you, guy–not everybody outside my “echo chamber” (dear god, your dated banalities never end), but you specifically and your feelings and outrages and need to make every single discussion about your supposed persecution–are just not deeply interesting to anyone living outside of your epidermis. (Great idea putting an @shortstop on this; it resulted in this being the only one of your comments I haven’t skipped since I don’t know when.)
mclaren
@J.W. Hamner:
Thanks for telling that particularly ignorant lie.
No, we’d be talking about going to war with Iran but we wouldn’t be at war with Iran under Palin because it’s not physically possible. The U.S. military stopped Bush-Cheney from going to war with Iran because the American military doesn’t physically have the capacity to support three simultaneous major land wars. The chief of staff Mike Mullen flat-out told Bush it couldn’t be done with the current American military weakened by equipment losses and stretched thin by deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. We don’t have the troops, we don’t have the equipment, we don’t the materiel.
So we wouldn’t be at war with Iran under President Palin, but we’d be constantly threatening it.
So what? We’re already doing that under Obama — threatening to attack Iran.
I’m still waiting, obots.
Show me one single policy that would be different under Sarah Palin compared to Barack Obama.
You can’t do it.
Joe Beese
@Tractarian:
And this surprises you?
Mr. Cole never stopped being a cult guy. He just changed Leaders.
J.W. Hamner
@mclaren:
Who said anything about a land war?
And, as I said, Palin would have vetoed nearly every bill passed by Congress.
Done did it.
shortstop
@Oscar Leroy: Put down the shovel. The argument you’re in is over, and you’re the only one who doesn’t seem to realize it.
Joe Beese
@FormerSwingVoter:
Oh, you’re the moron who said Obama stopped torturing prisoners in Guantanamo?
Nice to meet you.
artem1s
well, Shrub has the distinction (as far as I know) of being the only Prenit to have eggs thrown at his limo during the inauguration parade. It was so bad for him he pretty much only appeared in public when it was a hand picked crowd. he didn’t even have a 2nd inaugural parade (i think it was blamed on the weather).
pretty much the people I know who have turned against Obama are people who only voted against Bush (the same way they voted against Clinton in 2000 even though he wasn’t running). we had a pretty interesting procedural fight here in OH about people switching parties to vote in the Democratic party and Obama still lost by 10 points statewide.
as far as the tax vote goes I think they blew the call. Obama tied UI to the tax credits and then backed down. If you aren’t going to fight the fight don’t draw a line in the sand to begin with. I don’t think for one minute that this administration is the worst ever or hasn’t done anything but seriously I don’t care to have OFA emailing me videos of the President telling me that some fights aren’t worth fighting for. geez almighty would he have said that to MLK? Merle Evers? Rosa Parks? so I gotta agree on him bein’ ambivalent about how he treats his own. Clinton knew the problems was essentially with the press not with his/her supporters. Srsly, has anyone called out the national media on the fact these extensions aren’t going to hurt them one little bit? think Beck makes less than $250K a year? George Will?
Nick
@Oscar Leroy:
At least you admit Indys and moderates are the base
A L
Hey fellas. Bush/Obama are playing for the same team, so it stands to reason they would do the same thing as each other.
Lo and behold, and so they are.
Today’s daily reminder that Obama is not on your side so stop expecting him to treat you with any respect, and stop acting as if you have any influence over him.
mclaren
@shortstop:
Shorter shortstop: waaaaahhhh, waaaaahhhh, I don’t like mean old Wyldpirate’s comments but I can’t come up with any substantive specific objections to what he says. So instead I’m going to bang my little spoon on my little highchair like a spoiled three-year-old and shriek at the top of my lungs, waaaaaaaaaahhhh, waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
The utter lack of substantive specific rebuttals by the obots proves startling.
Mnemosyne keeps attacking FDR (explain to us again how I’m an asshole because FDR is worse than Pol Pot, why don’t you?”) while the other obots gibber and flail about the “tone” of criticism against Obama and snarl vague dark insinuations about how “Democrats will lose the black vote if these attacks on Obama continue” (Oh? Really? So the entire black caucus is going to vote for…Huckabee? Mitt Romney? Really? Are you people drunk, or high, or brain-damaged?) and the squid-clouds of butthurt from the obots just keep getting darker and darker… But not one single obot can point to one single progressive policy Obama has actually pushed through that would justify progressives continuing to support him.
“Obama supports DADT!”
No, Obama claims to support DADT. But he hasn’t done jack shit about it. Just as Obama claimed he supported a public option in health care reform…and then he didn’t do jack shit about it. Just as Obama claimed he supported an end to the war on drugs…and then he didn’t do jack shit about it. Just as Obama claimed he supported serious financial reform on Wall Street…and then he didn’t do jack shit about it. Just as Obama claimed he supported pulling all our troops out of Iraq…and then he left 50,000 U.S. army troops and 100,000 military contractor mercs in Iraq.
Name some substantive progressive policy Obama has actually gotten done that would justify liberals continuing to support him. And don’t tell me “But…but…Obama gives such eloquent speeches!” That’s talk.
We want action.
So far, essentially all of Obama’s actions have supported or extended the most extreme reactionary anti-constitutional warmongering police state predatory crony capitalism criminality of the Bush-Cheney years.
Nick
@Raenelle:
In a world where languishing in Congress for a whole year and only passing after the opposition drafted a compromise bill is “ramming through”
catclub
The inflation vigilantes don’t like the taxes deal.
From some reuters business article:
“”This tax agreement is a disaster for the U.S. fiscal situation,” said Howard Simons, strategist at Bianco Research in Chicago.”
Of course, they are idiots who only worry that inflation is coming – brought no doubt by Russian Submarines!
FlipYrWhig
It’s so annoying to hear yet again that Obama called out “liberals” or “his base” or whatever the formulation du jour is. He called out political purity trolls: “sanctimonious” people who evaluate every political outcome against an “abstract standard” of perfection. If that’s you, then he called you out. If that’s not you, he didn’t call you out. The way people race to declare themselves offended by that, you’d think the guy had a pretty good point.
mclaren
@J.W. Hamner:
Now you’ve been reduced to redefining your own terms so as not to be revealed as the liar you are.
Game, set, match. Stick a fork in yourself. You’re done.
A L
@FlipYrWhig:
Funny thing, GWB never insulted his base, even as he ripped them off. He never insulted the people who voted for him.
Obama is not even a competent politician. He’ll be abandoned by the elites simply because he’ll render himself useless through his stupidity.
Woodrow "asim" Jarvis Hill
@mclaren:
From the most recent post here on BJ, regarding the attempt to pass the Def. Auth bill with DADT repeal:
eemom
I must admit this thread cheered me up.
I’m still bewildered, lost and forlorn over the fact that I hate this fucking deal, think it was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and hope it fails……don’t agree with any of the folks I usually agree with here on this point, and agree with many of those I don’t……but still not ready to throw the book at Obama…….wonder who I AM if not an Obot, and certainly not a firebagger………fear I shall wander the innertubz, alone and bereft, for the rest of my political days…..
but THEN folks like mclaren, “A L” and Beese show up…..and I realize that at least I still dwell in the land of the sane. That is something.
shortstop
@mclaren: You don’t read so gud. He’s not mean (though he’d probably adore to think of himself as cutting a frightening figure). He’s monotonous. As for substantive rebuttals, the fact that his crew wants to have the identical discussion, always focused on their deep sense of very personal injury at Obama’s hands, approximately 100,000 times was, of course, my original point upthread.
A L
@eemom:
Obama doesn’t read this blog. You’re wasting your time.
Lisa
@eemom: eemom you are just a nice, normal person, which is confusing to the internetz where everyone is either Obot of Death or a Crusader for Good and Awesomeness.
In real life I am a nice, mild-mannered secretary who has an elderly cat and likes to watch Dexter on Sunday nights. On the internetz I am a 1st lieutenant in the 82nd Obot Death Platoon.
shortstop
@Nick: For some reason, I heard this in the voice of the guy who does all the movie trailers: “In a world…where languishing in Congress for a whole year [cut to shot of piles of paper thrown carelessly across rows of historic wooden desks, all unoccupied]…is [staccato drumbeat]…RAMMING THROUGH [close-up of LBJ screaming into the phone/cut to double doors to the Senate chamber bursting open and many white men in narrow lapels and ties and 1960s buzz cuts pouring onto the floor]…”
J.W. Hamner
@mclaren:
Redefining my own terms? What are you talking about? You’ve heard of airplanes, missile, and drone strikes right? Or are you saying those actions aren’t sufficient to qualify as war? A strange position to take for an alleged progressive… but let’s grant you the point… do you, or do you not, agree that a President Palin would have already authorized air strikes against Iran?
Your aggressively frothing bluster is evidence of the weakness of your argument.
In addition, please point to the major legislation of the 11th Congress you think President Palin would have supported. Tick tock, tick tock.
ChrisWWW
@FlipYrWhig:
He didn’t just call out purity trolls in the abstract, he specifically mentioned the public option advocates as an example.
eemom
@Lisa:
tee hee. Thanks. : )
A L
@J.W. Hamner:
Israel will probably take the lead in striking Iran. Rest assured that whatever Obama is doing re: Iran is what Palin or any other U.S. politician capable of being president would be doing.
eemom
@shortstop:
you know, that guy actually died not too long ago…..I remember hearing about it. Probly they have a replacement by now.
shortstop
Cole, fix the edit function, wouldja! I voted for hope on this blog and you are SELLING US OUT! I’m beginning to think you NEVER REALLY SUPPORTED our ability to edit our posts, only PRETENDED TO IN YOUR PUBLIC STATEMENTS! Mr. Status Quo!
ETA: Never mind. So, OT, it turns out that using 15 exclamation points in a row is a no-no here.
J.W. Hamner
@A L:
Why should I take that on faith? All of her foreign policy advisors are neocons… do you think a hypothetical President Gore would have taken the same path on Iraq as Bush?
The Bobs
@A L:
Jane, please go back over to FDL.
FlipYrWhig
@eemom: There’s a difference between thinking, on the one hand, it’s a bad deal, or bad policy–adults come to different conclusions about things, that’s politics–and, on the other hand, concluding that it’s a bad deal because Obama is a pu$$y, a sellout, a corporatist, a lefty-hater, stabbing you personally in the back. But it’s been impossible for two weeks to have a reasonable discussion about the merits of the deal and the relative prospects of getting a better one without the whole thing devolving into what it means to be “strong” or “weak” or the optics, symbolism, and signals. That last bit should be _part_ of the discussion but not _the whole discussion_. “This is bad because while it might help people it looks weak”; well, I’ll take that trade almost every time, because I’d rather help people and be called weak than stand by while people suffer and be called strong, especially when the people making the call about “strong” and “weak” are a tiny, hard-to-please fraction of the population.
Not everything is a negotiation. If your kid is hurt badly and you call 911, you’re not going to take that moment to haggle out the details of the treatment plan. In an emergency, negotiation gets suspended. Now, someone will say, you can’t keep treating everything as an emergency, and that’s true, but as a cardinal rule, I really do put relieving people’s immediate pain above projecting symbolic strength and power, and I think it’s a central part of what makes liberalism not just a partisan faction but an ethical position.
Can't Be Bothered
@mclaren:
He and Reid are trying to cut a deal with President Collins as we speak.
DOA. Call President Nelson if this bothers you so much.
ummmmm… no he didn’t.
.
Do you not recall all this bitter Galt letters from I bankers after financial reg. was passed?
Umm…. no he didn’t. He always said there would be residual forces.
I should have stuck to my name, as pointing out your factual errors will do nothing to dissuade you. You are the flip side of the coin of a Teatard. You are more concerned with your own perception than facts. Before you post you should familiarize yourself with Google and the broader internet.. there’s lots of information out there.
FlipYrWhig
@ChrisWWW: I hear it like this: the public option fight is analogous because the public option people came up with a whole crusade to Kill The Bill if it didn’t have the public option. Not people who said “I like the public option and want to see it in the final bill,” but people who said, “because this bill didn’t have the public option, it is not a good bill.”
ETA: maybe that’s my view rather than Obama’s, but that Obama guy is like the quintessential O-bot. ;P
Lisa
@FlipYrWhig: ETA:
LOLZ!!
Mnemosyne
@mclaren:
I didn’t say that FDR was worse than Pol Pot. I said it’s extremely strange that someone who claims her sole focus and interest is civil rights would idolize a president who put innocent people in internment camps based on their race.
Again: you hate Obama for telling the CIA that it’s okay to kill a guy who is literally living in an enemy camp but idolize the guy who put American citizens into internment camps.
Bit of a disconnect there, don’t you think? Well, no, you don’t think, so I guess I can’t really expect you to understand how completely irrational your thought process is.
ChrisWWW
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m just saying that Public Option “purists” should see themselves as the target of Obama’s ire.
A L
@J.W. Hamner:
Possibly, but a hypothetical Gore situation has nothing to do with the current situation, which is unfolding pretty much as expected (as in, it’s following the same pattern as Iran).
It really astounds me that people think the United States is a functioning democracy when even a cursory glance at history would clue most people in that that’s not actually the case.
mclaren
@shortstop:
Prove it.
Still waiting for the proof.
Still waiting…
Okay! Great! Here we go! Some specifics about Obama’s policy proposals…
Okay, no, just more vague meaningless “I’m feeling butthurt” bullshit from shortstop.
So where’s the evidence I “don’t read so gud”?
Nowhere.
Typical obot horseshit. A bunch of whimpering impotent gibberish about how Obama’s critics are “monotonous.”
Here’s a clue for you, Brainiac: when Obama tells lie after lie after lie to his base and when he betrays his promises time and time and time again, then Obama’s base is going to keep saying “Hey! You lied to us!” and “Hey! You betrayed us!”
That becomes monotonous because Obama’s lies and betrayals are monotonous. When Obama stops lying to us, we will stop pointing it out, and that point we will stop being monotonous.
When Obama stops betraying his promises he will stop calling him on it, and at that point we will stop being monotonous.
A L
@Can’t Be Bothered:
HA, excuse me but do you always believe everything you read/hear?
That’s right, all those captains of industry were so bitter and torn up over the bailouts, look how they screamed so!!
mclaren
@eemom:
Explain why it’s “insane” to demand that the president of the united states obey the constitution.
Angry Black Lady
@Tim: ah, i see. so when cole forcefully states an opinion, he’s lauded as being “back,” or he’s just holding the hair of the poor little sensitive black lady who is puking into the toilet and crying because goddamnit, the boys at Balloon Juice are being MEAAAAAN.
waaaaaahh!!
if you think i need backing up, you are wrong. if you think cole would back me up because i’m his affirmative action baby, you’re a fucking idiot.
get over yourself. cole asked me to blog here–i wasn’t looking for Bright Lights, Blog City. and trust me, i don’t give a flying fuck what you think of me. but you go on ahead with your tough guy act. i’m sure whatever you are overcompensating for ain’t gettin’ any bigger, sweetie.
you want base?
http://tiny.cc/igotyerbase
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
that is admirable, of course, but I guess this is where we disagree. I don’t see the refusal to give in to the GOPihad as a merely “symbolic” show of strenth and power at ALL.
I keep coming back to the fact that the UI benefits for the same people are going to expire AGAIN, the fucking tax cuts for the rich come back to the table AGAIN, in a year or at most two…….and from all indications we’re going to be in an even WORSE position to help the people who need it most and stop the glutting of the obscenely rich.
And I just do not accept that it was take this deal or starve the unemployed. Much as I hate the “bully pulpit” sheep-bleat, this really WAS a case where Obama could have taken his case to the public, where a majority of people ALREADY don’t want the rich tax cuts extended…….and with the tax cuts expired, the repubs — on the WRONG side of the status quo for once — scrambling to appease their furious whoremasters. Who knows what could have happned? I think there were all kinds of ways this could have had a better outcome.
And maybe will still, as I hear the DeMint gang of thugs and the Norquistas are Not. Pleased.
Wouldn’t it be FUN to have Jane and Grover back in bed together for Christmas??
FlipYrWhig
@ChrisWWW:
OK, but that’s not “the left,” and what everyone keeps alleging is that Obama lashed out at “the left.” It’s a slender portion of the left, and I personally find his point to be quite salient, that if you insist on perfection, you’re not going to accomplish anything. What the so-called left should be doing right now is hammering home the idea that tax cuts for the rich are terrible policy, thereby preparing the ground for the next time the subject comes up, rather than keening and caterwauling about how Obama is such a wussy, which does nothing to advance their supposed policy goals.
mclaren
@Mnemosyne:
Sure you did. And this is one of the characteristics of the sociopath: you’re so filled with fanatical hatred that you’ve convinced yourself everything I say is wrong, so when I made an analogy pointing out that FDR was better than Pol Pot, you replied “What an asshole” and savagely attacked FDR to prove that, of course, I was wrong, because FDR was much much worse than Pol Pot.
Sociopaths like Mnemosyne fall into this trap all the time. They start with some crazy conclusion and then invent facts in a failed and futile effort to try to support that crazy conclusion.
More craziness from the clinical sociopath Mnemosyne. First, show me where I said my sole focus and interest is civil rights. That’s something you cooked up in your own deluded mind.
Second, there’s a slight difference between putting Japanese-Americans in internment camps, and ordering the murder of U.S. citizens without trial and without even charging them with a crime.
But, of course, as a sociopath, Mnemosyne has no grasp of reality. She just spews whatever lies she needs to in order to justify her delusions, then claims she never told those lies. Classic sociopathic behavior.
This is scrambled it’s hard even to untangle the garbled reasoning. But let’s have a try…
[1] I don’t hate Obama. I pointed out he is flagrantly violating the constitution when he orders a U.S. citizen murdered without a trial.
[1] Obama didn’t “tell the CIA that it’s okay to kill a guy,” Obama ordered U.S. army death squads to go murder an American citizen without even accusing him of a crime or trying him in a court of law. Telling the CIA “that i’s okay to kill a guy” may be justifiable if the guy isn’t a U.S. citizen. We’re talking about a citizen of the United States here, dipshit. He’s not “some guy.” Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American citizen. You might not like the fact that being an American citizen means you have certain rights, but that’s the way it is here in these United States.
If you don’t like that fact, Mnemosyne, stand on the street corner and gather signatures for a petition to amend the constitution of the united states to eliminate the requirement for a jury trial and due process and an arraignment and charges.
See how far you get.
[3] As for whether Anwar Al-Awlaki is living in an enemy camp, what enemy? Yemen? Since when did America declare war on Yemen? So every foreign country full of brown people is now “the enemy”, Mnemosyne?
[4] As for whether I “idolize the guy who put U.S. citizens in internment camps,” the Japanese-Americans who got interned during WW II lost some property. That’s significant. The weren’t tortured and they weren’t kidnapped and thrown into a dungeon forever with no hope of escape and they weren’t murdered. So yes, spit-for-brains, what Obama is doing is far far far worse than what FDR did to Japanese-Americans.
If you can’t see the difference between torturing murder and telling people they have to pack up their belongings and stay in a camp in the desert for 3 years, you’ve got some serious mental problems.
Oh…wait…you’ve already admitted on this forum that you “didn’t get the help [you] needed” when you experienced several mental problems in high school.
Get the help, Mnemosyne. Get it now.
Yes, quite a disconnect — when you try to equate torture and murder with people packing up their belongings and staying in barracks for a couple of years.
Here’s a clue, sociopath: when you’re dead, you’re dead. You ain’t comin’ back. The Japanese-Americans came back to their lives. They continued their schooling. They started up their businesses again.
If you’re dead, you can’t continue your schooling. If you’re dead you can’t start up your business again.
Understand now, sociopath?
From a person who has already admitted she had several mental illness problems in high school and considering the garbled logic of your preceding sentences, this requires no comment.
FlipYrWhig
@eemom:
IMHO he actually _won_ the argument on policy. But what would have to happen next is getting people so adamant that they would take their anger out on Republicans for not giving them that policy. And I don’t like the chances of that working. For 98% of people, Obama’s plan and the Republican plan affect them in exactly the same tangible way. They might prefer Obama’s plan to the Republican plan, but they definitely don’t want _no_ plan. You’d have to win an argument that pins the blame for getting no plan on Republicans. No other attempt to shame Republicans has worked. That’s why I don’t have much hope for it working this time.
Slatersan
It’s beginning to smell like 2000 all over again. The left gets pissed off at a Democratic president that is too timid and too afraid to do anything that might even slightly appease them (isn’t it odd how the “professional left” has essentially forgotten how badly they claimed Clinton fucked them during his 8 years in office? Now he’s one of the greatest presidents evah) and we end up with a Nader or a primary challenge. This only helps the Republicans and in 2013, it’s President HuckabeeorPalinorRomneyorGingrich….
shortstop
@FlipYrWhig: Bingo. It would be 24/7 reportage (giggle) of how the Democratic president and the Democratic Congress let YOUR tax cut expire. And it would be highly successful. The GOP would take zero on this except among the miniscule percentage of people who are actually paying attention to Congressional gymnastics.
mike in dc
Hear My Train A Coming (live at Berkeley) is teh awesome.
Fear will keep the base in line…fear of this
battle stationRepublican resurgence.mclaren
@eemom:
This is where you and I agree. In fact, I’ve pointed out several options Obama could’ve used to bring pressure on the rich people salivating for those tax cuts that would’ve let Obama cut a much better deal.
Let’s be specific:
1) Obama could’ve issued a signing statement withholding the tax cuts from the rich. The working folks get UI extension, but the rich get no fucking money. If you’re not aware of the details of presidential signing statements, here’s some more info here.
2) Obama could’ve negotiated hardcore with the Repubs. He could’ve said, “I control the IRS, and here’s what’s going to happen if you force me to extend those tax cuts for the rich… Everyone in America who made more than 10 million dollars last year is going to get an IRS colonoscopy. I am going to direct the IRS to give every last fucking rich guy in America through audit hell. Your rich asshole backers are not going to get their tax refunds next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, because it is going to take five or ten or fifteen years of legal hell and IRS nightmare audits to go through every last process and audit the living shit out of them before they get their money. And then I am going to direct the IRS to pull the tax returns for every last fucking rich son-of-a-bitch for the last 7 years and those rich bastards will nto be able to spend any time on their yachts or on their private islands, because, you know what? They’re going to be sitting in a chair in an IRS office answering questions from an IRS auditor. Those rich bastards who bribed you to try to force me to extend their tax cuts are going to spend the next 5 years sweating in a chair answering questions from IRS auditors, and it is going to go on and on and on and on.”
So then Obama looks real hard at John Boehner and says, “You can make it stop. You can make this hell stop by compromising…and letting the UI go through without the tax cuts for the rich. Otherwise, I will open the gates of IRS hell for your rich supporters and they will be begging for death after the auditors get through with them.”
3) Obama could simply lay a big stack of paper on the table in front of the Republican leadership. “This is a set of indictments of the richest people in America for financial fraud. You can make these indictments go away. My DOJ will shitcan these indictments tomorrow. All you have to do is sign this piece of paper authorizing extension of UI without tax cuts for the rich.”
These are 3 suggestions for what Obama could have done instead of caving in.
I’ve come up with only these 3, but you can bet your ass a motivated and dedicated pol could’ve come up with thirty even better options.
srv
@eemom:
Imagine if that was not a bug, but a feature?
Surely liberals understand that Rand Paul will be the first to rail against the 10.1% of his constituents who are slackers? And those other Rethugs who voted to extend UI, will never do so again? All those Red States with high unemployment, not a one of them is going to blame their congressman or Senator for voting against UI. They are all true believers and our only option is to give ground – again, and again, and again.
Tim
@mclaren:
But mclaren…that would be MEAN.
Mnemosyne
@mclaren:
Yes, there is — FDR interned 110,000 American citizens, while Obama is rumored to have said it’s okay for the CIA to kill one (1) American citizen.
I do love how you keep calling them “Japanese-Americans,” as though that was a justification for imprisoning American citizens:
But I guess that guy must have deserved to be murdered in an internment camp, unlike the completely innocent and blameless al-Alwaki.
But, hey, you keep telling yourself that Obama is the Worstest President Ever and that FDR was a spotless saint because he only imprisoned American citizens and didn’t actively try to kill them.
ETA: Ooh, wait, I missed this gem:
Tell the family of James Wakasa that it was no big deal that he was shot and killed by American soldiers guarding the camp he was in because, after all, they didn’t plan to kill him.
Internment camps were just like summer camp! I don’t know why all of those people complained about it.
DonkeyKong
Not to get all catholic and all, but I think this blog is weeping.
Mark S.
@eemom:
To be precise, they are set to expire at the end of 2012. Isn’t there some big event that’s going to happen in November of 2012? I can’t remember off the top of my head.
tomvox1
@mclaren:
#1 sounds a lot like W. Bush’s perspective on the separation of powers to me, i.e. Fuck you, Congress, I make the rules. Also, too: I believe you have to have passed a piece of legislation to attach a signing statement to:
They don’t exist in a vacuum, AFAIK. That would be more like an Executive Order and I don’t think those can be used for things like tax policy (Executive Order would prolly do the trick for killing DADT if things go south in the Senate, though.)
#2 sounds a helluva lot like Nixon and his “Enemies List” to me.
#3 sounds illegal. Satisfying but really quite illegal. See again Nixon’s attempt to use the DOJ for political purposes culminating in the Saturday Night Massacre.
So again, we have the argument from Obama’s Liberal detractors that they wish he operated more like a Republican (or in the case of #2 & 3, like a dictator). Weird, ain’t it?
chopper
@ChrisWWW:
so HCR and financial reform, and a stimulus package, all of which obama had to compromise to get passed, don’t exist in your world?
every big package a dem president has passed from the 30’s on has had to be watered down in some way or another, even when guys like LBJ and FDR had huge majorities.
NobodySpecial
Fuckit, Palestinian citizenship is looking better every day. At least their version of the left gets guns.
mclaren
@Mnemosyne:
I bet you love that. Any excuse to revel in racism is right up your alley, Mnemosyne.
In case you hadn’t noticed, people didn’t get interned during WW II because they were blue-eyed or brown-eyed. They got interned because they had Japanese ancestry. That was tragic, and it’s nonetheless a fact.
Naturally, to you, the statement of documented facts is some kind of “justification for imprisoning American citizens.”
To the rest of us there was no justification for what FDR did. And you know what? Those people who got interned were able to pick up with their lives. Anwar Al-Awlaki won’t be able to. He’s going to be shot in the head by some SEAL with a silenced .22.
You’re talking about a dozen people out of 110,000 who died. What, are you now going to accuse FDR of “murdering” all the people who died because of lighting strikes during his term in office? How far-fetched are you going to get here? A handful of people got killed in the relocation camps during WW II, and that’s tragic, and it’s also a fact that when you’re talking about 110,000 there are going to be a handful of people who get shot or beaten by guards, a handful of people who die from strokes, a handful of people who die from heart attacks, from lots of different causes.
Your failed and futile effort to equate these kinds of tragic and inadvertent deaths with the deliberate murder of a U.S. citizen by an American death squad is contemptible.
Show me the proof that a U.S. army ranger assassination team targeted James Wakasa for death during WW II.
You can’t. So you’re a liar. But we already knew that, didn’t we? Essentially everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie, Mnemosyne. You lie and lie and lie and lie, and then you lie about having lied.
I will do exactly that. If james Wakasa didn’t want to be shot, he shouldn’t have hung around the outer perimeter wire. It’s not a big deal that he was shot because he was violating the rules, and when you deal with soldiers, they will goddamn well shoot you if you violate their rules. That’s brutal and that’s ugly, but that’s the way it works in a time of declared war.
In case you hadn’t noticed, America was at war in 1942. America has not declared war today.
In case you hadn’t noticed, Mnemosyne, America faced millions of fanatical racist killers chanting “Heil Hitler!” and saluting Tojo and Mussolini and vowing to conquer the world and exterminate inferior mongrel races. By contrast, today America faces a couple dozen ragheads skulking around in caves in Waziristan.
So while it James Wakasa’s death was tragic, no, it wasn’t that big a deal. FDR didn’t personally order an assassination team to murder James Wakasa. Instead, James Wakasa got told the rules by some soldiers and then he decided to ignore them, and the soldiers killed him. Shitty situation. The soldiers behaved like thugs. And guess what? That’s what happens when you declare war — it’s a shitty situation and soldiers will behave like thugs. James Wakasa should’ve remembered that and stayed away from the perimeter wire.
By contrast, Anwar Al-Awlaki has…made speeches. What the hell kind of crime is that?
Show me where I said “internment camps were just like summer camp” or stand revealed as a pathological compulsive liar, Mnemosyne.
Keep it up. Keep telling these kinds of lies, Mnemosyne, so everyone can see how basically dishonest and conscienceless you are.
chopper
@mclaren:
yeah, that sounds like exactly what happened. you’re quite the victim, aren’t you? and he’s the fanatical nutjob.
eemom
@Mark S.:
exactly — now somebody tell me how he was not out of his mind to agree to THAT?
And if anybody tells me that we’re going to be in a better position to call out tax cuts for the rich at that point, I swear I will bang my head on this keyboard until I have dents in my face.
eemom
@mclaren:
You leave Mnemosyne the hell alone, you sociopathic bully.
She’s one of the sanest, smartest people on this blog.
And I’d say that even if half the people on this blog were NOT bugfuck crazy.
chopper
@mclaren:
LOL. this is so much fail.
mclaren
@tomvox1:
Not weird at all. The Republicans don’t believe in the legitimate political process — so to fight these bastards you’re going to have get down and dirty.
Explain why #3 is illegal, by the way.
#2 is not an enemies list. It’s just doing due diligence in making sure that Americans pay their taxes, and since the wealthiest Americans account for most of the taxes paid, well, we have to dot our i’s and cross our t’s, don’t we?
I’ve said before and I’ll say again that Democrats have to learn to fight like Republicans to get anything done in this current political environment. That means Democrats are going to have to learn how to smear and swift-boat Republicans as effectively as Republicans have learned to smear and swift-boat them. The only difference is that when Democrats smear Repubs, they can do it by telling the truth. For example: “Republicans want to murder your baby.” That’s literally true. Republicans want to take away health care from the average person, which means when you baby gets sick, s/he dies.
What is “weird” about fighting Republicans using their own methods? That’s called politics.
You know, once upon a time, Democratic pols used all the techniques I’ve suggested, and of which you display such a horror. LBJ bribed and threatened, JKF used the powers of his office the coerce people, Harry Truman forced people to sign loyalty oaths at penalty of losing their jobs…this stuff went on all the time.
And you know what?
Democrats got things done.
Now, all of a sudden, liberals expect Democrats to get shit done without being all, like, ooohhhh, dirty and tough and hardcore and like that. Ain’t gonna happen. You wanna get stuff done, you are going to have to coerce and bribe and threaten people. That’s what Washington D.C.
The only difference today is that the Repubs coerce and bribe and threaten, while the Democrats merely stand around looking sheepish. That’s doesn’t cut it.
Oh, and by the way — that analogy with Nixon’s “enemies list” is 100% bullshit. Nixon targeted specific people by name. What I suggested is that Obama crank up tax enforcement based on income. This gets done all the time. Bush drastically reduced tax enforcement and lowered the number of tax audits on rich people while shifting tax enforcement to the middle class and hugely increasing the numbers of audits on middle-class people. Was that a “middle class enemies list”? Horseshit! That’s just targeting tax enforcement.
All tax enforcement must be targeted, since there aren’t enough auditors to audit everyone. It’s a matter of discretion which income quartiles to target. Obama could easily propose to audit-target the top 0.1% income quartile, and if you claim that’s illegal, you’re ignorant of the law. Nothing illegal about it.
Next, you’ll be telling us that an excess profits tax is unconstitutional, the way some crackpot tried to claim a couple of months ago on this forum. Eisenhower had an excess profits tax. It wasn’t unconstitutional.
Claiming that auditing rich people with the IRS is “illegal” offers a good example of the kind of Gilded Age faux economics that has gotten so deeply beaten into Americans by Fox News and the right wing that you people think it genuinely is illegal or unconstitutional to target rich people for IRS audits. No, it’s perfectly legal. The IRS has the discretion of whom to audit. As long as they don’t target individuals by name, it’s 100% legal.
matoko_chan
“my favorite Hendrix song.”
nah……viva la vida is more apropos.
but dont sweat it Cole.
history will judge.
if i had to sum O up in one phrase, it would be …
Tom Q
@eemom: Well, I hate to be the one who makes you do that, but…
If the economy has recovered enough two years from now, it will be a time we can more afford to take the risk of letting all cuts expire, as it wouldn’t cripple a shaky recovery, like it might today. (If the economy hasn’t recovered by then, all other argument is moot, because the GOP will win the election and we’ll be in Laffer Land for the foreseeable future)
But that’s only the “if all else fails” plan. Obama will run that year on “Vote for me and my fellow Democrats; we’ll preserve your middle class cuts, and end the upper income cuts. In fact, if you want to assure that, you vote for our party to take over the House” If the American voter complies, the GOP is in the opposite position of where they are today — if they let all cuts expire, the Dem House can re-introduce the middle-class portion on January 1st.
mclaren
@eemom:
Mnemosyne is a sick twisted sociopath who revels in the prospect of torturing people.
Mnemosyne has repeatedly exulted in pain and torture, and when you support her, you’re supporting sickness and pathology.
Not only that, Mnemosyne has openly admitted to suffering from mental illness.
Eemom, you just shit-canned your reputation and made your name into a piece of excrement. Shame on you. Shame on you, you gutless punk. You’re a disgrace to this forum and a pathetic excuse for a human being.
chopper
@mclaren:
yeah, someone’s mentally ill here, and it aint mnem.
shortstop
@Tom Q:
I feel like I’ve heard that somewhere before, sometime in the last, oh, three years at the most. No. No, I can’t put my finger on it.
Okay, okay, I know all the details of what’s been going down in Congress for the last two years. But low-info voters, which is most voters, don’t, and they’re not going to in two years, either. For them, there’s going to be a mighty strong sound of “Wolf!” about this.
What they will be aware of: we didn’t get it done when we had the presidency and the majority of both houses. We will not be in a stronger position in 2012.
Mark S.
@chopper:
Team, this is all my fault. I was overzealous in Cairo. I let racism cloud my judgment. I was so sure the ultimate terrorist was Middle Eastern, but I didn’t realize he was a goddamn Gook. I’ll never be a racist again.
Mark S.
@mclaren:
Jesus, mclaren, take your fucking meds and calm down.
mclaren
@matoko_chan:
The actual quote is
From Martin Luther King’s “Where do we go from Here?” speech, 1967.
agrippa
I am not surprised.
The zealots will turn on you, when you do not do what they want you to do.
chopper
@Mark S.:
seriously, al-awlaki is just some dude who made some speeches? that’s some cask-strength stupid right there.
mclaren
@chopper:
Keep screaming those lies to distract us from the fact that you have nothing to add. No suggestions about what Obama should do, no proposals for Democratic policy…nothing at all except vacuous name-calling.
And people wonder why Democrats can’t get anything done?
With a bunch of feckless hopeless losers who shriek “You’re insane!” whenever someone points out that the president of the united states has to obey the constitution, well, the crew on this forum couldn’t manage to operate a hot dog stand…much less come up with sensible Democratic policies.
mclaren
@chopper:
Show us the evidence that Al-Awlaki has committed a crime under American law or stand revealed as a compulsive pathological liar.
chopper
@mclaren:
jesus, you really have gone full retard. i agree with mike s, take some meds.
and i love how you keep diagnosing others as sociopathic, or a compulsive liar, then turn around and bitch about people who yell out ‘you’re insane’ in response to stuff.
shortstop
@mclaren: The persistence you show in the Rovian technique of projecting your own glaring weaknesses onto others is not matched by any aptitude at the practice.
Whatever mental health issues Mnemosyne may have struggled with in high school (and I’m giving you more credit for accurately reporting someone else’s words than your comments in this thread have earned–I don’t get over here that often and I have no idea if you behave like this every day), she’s clearly gotten a full handle on in the intervening years. You, on the other hand, have been treating us to a full-on batshit rant here in a curious belief that it demonstrates your mental stability. And while I’m sure that no one holds any bona fide mental illness against you–you can’t help that–I have to note that there are plenty of crazy people walking around who aren’t also totally revolting to be around. You could try being one of those someday.
What the fuck is wrong with you that you think cudgeling someone for her apparent frank discussion, in a totally different context, of a long-ago emotional issue is an acceptable technique of argument–just because you were angry that she rightly called your current arguments irrational? Way to prove her point, asswipe.
chopper
@mclaren:
i guess we shouldn’t be going after bin laden over 9/11 then, cause i can’t think of any US laws he broke over that.
ETA: YOU MUST DISPROVE THIS, OR FOREVER BE KNOWN AS A COMPULSIVE LIAR, SOCIOPATH AND POSSIBLY HAVE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER
shortstop
@mclaren:
Damn, it’s true, Ignatius. We couldn’t. Will you show us how to sell a Lucky Dog and run Levy Pants?
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Three posts by blogger extraordinaire, Steve Benen, today, pretty much cover the week’s subject.
These posts at washingtonmonthly.com are titled:
WHEN A CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD HAS A BETTER TARGET.
A VISUAL BREAKDOWN.
WHY RECONCILIATION ISN’T AN OPTION.
The Reconciliation post is extremely relevant and informative, and has to do with how we got into this strange coffin corner of dysfunctional government as opposed to why the Magic Negro couldn’t wave his grand Wand and make all the sad progressives happy.
Anyway, the comments there, and here, and pretty much everywhere, are just junk. Who said it today, Benen? hilzoy? I forget. But it was along the lines of, the Dems can’t fight the Republicans, so instead, they go after each other. We are the reason why the Republicans can beat us at these games. And if you need to know how that works, just read these threads. They will remind you of the hillbilly posts you see in local papers every day. Car accident? Duh! I guess the stupid rich guy forgot to buckle his seat belt! Har har!
Welcome to interactive news streams. Heh.
This subject and this blog are now boring. Fuck them. Pass the compromise bill, and get on with it.
Martin Gifford
@John Cole:
I’m starting to think trolling is all you do, John. One minute you attack Obama to get one side going, then you defend Obama to get the other side going.
America is going down the drain. Obama, his defenders, and the Republicans are all pushing it further and faster down. Yet, I suspect, all you care about is site hits.
shilohsmama
@Lisa:
It already happened, Lisa. Arkansas Democratic primary, circa 2010. There was nothing left of their dream candidate and their fantasies except dust and rubble.
Martin Gifford
Digby has a great article on this: Triangulating In The New Millenium.
Here’s a quote:
Mark S.
@Martin Gifford:
Tomorrow John’s going to write a couple posts about how he’s starting to miss Bush.
LongHairedWeirdo
Well, “base” is a funny kind of word.
It’s true, the “base” voters who, if they vote, *have* to vote for Obama/Democrats, are pissed at Obama, and are pissed at him frequently.
But if, by “base”, you mean “the voters Obama cultivates as his primary ‘base’ of support”, I don’t know that he has one.
As for complaints about Obama, Krugman speaks for me:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/the-sorrow-and-the-self-pity-2/
It’s not so much that I don’t understand he’s had to make hard choices; it’s that, in addition to making them seem not-very-hard, he also lashes out at the folks who he should be trying to keep engaged and excited.
Martin Gifford
And the comments in the Digby post are great too. David Futurama, for example:
And a quote from Galbraith at Salon:
JWL
You’re an hysteric where legitimate criticism of Obama is concerned, Cole. Your contempt for those that don’t see things your way is schtick.
I’m sure it’s been mentioned upthread, but:
Are you familiar with the electoral results of the presidential election of 1964?
Do you remember (or recall having read) about the travails of LBJ circa 1968?
tomvox1
@mclaren:
#3 is illegal because you have the President offering a quid pro quo for what is ostensibly an independent DOJ’s call on who or who not to prosecute. If you are trying to give Obama advice that will almost certainly get him impeached, you are doing a heckuva job, sport.
Same goes for the President telling the IRS who or who not to audit. That’s fucking crazy. You must really hate the guy to give him this sort of boneheaded, ham-handed council. Oh, that’s right. You do. Forgot.
And your argument that Republicans are scumbags so Democrats should be equally scummy is simply puerile. That’s like arguing that McCarthyism worked for a while to win short term political battles so the Left should probably engage in the same sort of hysterical bullshit to score some points. For a guy who is constantly on his high horse over Obama signing off on a potential Al-Awlaki hit and crying a river over it, that is some glaring moral relativism right there.
BTW, don’t you have a term paper due or something? You’ve got more fucking free time to torture logic within an inch of its life than just about any poster I’ve ever come across…
Martin Gifford
From that Krugman article:
And this from Noam Scheiber quoted in the Krugman article, shows Obama’s lack of courage and leadership:
At that point, Obama should have said, I will veto any continuation of tax cuts for the rich.
JWL
I neglected to add that no one, and I mean no one, holds the republican party in more profound contempt than I do, Cole. Not even you.
gerry
Dear Mr. Cole,
Answer the question yourself. Who was the last president to sell himself to his base as a bringer of change and a representative of their hopes who so completely abandoned and snubbed his base? There’s your answer.
eemom
@mclaren:
I kind of don’t even know where to start here….
Martin Gifford
Here’s another spot-on comment from a guest at Digby:
Don’t forget the enthusiasm and hope that greeted Obama’s election.
Don’t forget how destroyed the Republicans were.
Now look at the situation – Democrats bouncing off the ropes and not even throwing a punch.
LarsThorwald
(reviews thread)
Well.
That went about as well as could be expected.
LarsThorwald
(reviews thread)
Well.
That went about as well as could be expected.
gleek
Also too, it’s not his “base”, he’s just borrowing it right now.
russell
Best Hendrix song has to be Little Wing. It’s just a great freaking song, no matter who plays it, in whatever style they play it. It has good bones.
Little Wing is a great rock song, a great funk ballad, a great jazz standard. It’s a great bossa. It’d be a great polka, were anyone to try playing it that way, although I would probably have to hunt them down and kill them if they did.
And it’s a great Jimi Hendrix song.
Favorite Hendrix song (mine, that is) is Up From The Skies.
Best Hendrix performance is your choice of Voodoo Chile, Who Knows, Machine Gun.
chopper
@gerry:
he didn’t sell himself to the WATB crowd as ‘a representative of their hopes’. the WATB crowd openly wanted ponies.
MikeMc
@Martin Gifford: Jesus Martin! Are you actually quoting from another blogs comment section? Get your shit together.
johnny walker
@Tim:
Not even remotely. Her posts remind me of the unfocused, far-too-long, oh-my-god-why-can’t-I-realize-I’m-turning-people-off angry emails I used to send around when I was a 19-year old kid who’d just discovered politics. Long, rambling, unedited, emphasis on emotion rather than coherent argumentation, etc. Though in my own defense, if I asked people “When’d I say that?!” and they quoted it back to me I’d at least acknowledge that much.
I get that Cole sees this place as a benevolent dictatorship and I’m fine with that. All I ask is that if he thinks stream-of-consciousness rants numbering in the thousands of words that’re FORMATTED using angry teenager emailspeak!!!!! conventions belong on the front page that he ask ABL to use the “more after the jump” button so those of us who do want to skip one of her posts can do so in less time than it takes to *read* most of the site’s other posts.
(And what’s with all the new frontpagers being so excessively verbose anyway?)
JWL
“Bill Clinton wasn’t some fucking hippie class-warrior, he was a triangulating centrist. You’ve now triangulated to the right of a triangulating centrist. Being unhappy with that is neither sanctimonious nor purist”.
From todays the ‘You Are Dumb’ blog.
Donald Johnson
Krugman does a pretty good low key job of explaining what is wrong with Obama’s whine–
<a href="http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/the-sorrow-and-the-self-pity-2/"<link
Tim
@chopper:
i guess we shouldn’t be going after bin laden over 9/11 then, cause i can’t think of any US laws he broke over that
So…you really believe that the U.S. has been “after” Bin Laden for TEN FUCKING YEARS and somehow, despite all its awesome military and espionage capabilities, just can’t quite seem to capture or kill him?
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA omg…you are a sucker.
I suppose we should have some Swedish chick accuse Bin Laden of schtupping her without a condom or while she was asleep; Interpol would have BL in jail in no time.
FlipYrWhig
@Martin Gifford: You do know that Digby’s comments have been gloom and doom central for 3 solid years, right? They all say the same thing: he sucks and I’m sad. Quoting from Digby comments for reinforcement of your views on liberal politics is like quoting from a Los Angeles Clippers board to bolster your views on basketball. We get it, your team sucks and they should get better.
Odie Hugh Manatee
This is obviously troll bait Mr. Cole, particularly tasty and meaty bait too! I skimmed the thread before posting to see if the usual manic progressives are butthurt and howling for our entertainment. Yup. Now to go back and savor the stupid for a few.
Hey, somebody has to do it or all of their whining was for naught!
mclaren
@eemom:
Let’s run through the proposals we’ve heard from “one of the sanest smartest people on this blog.”
Mnemosyne has applauded with glowing approval the crazy proposal for biometric universal national I.D. cards — a proposal which every prominent security expert has condemned as both ineffective and money-wasting and incredibly dangerous because it creates a police state that’s actually an “ID theft paradise.”
Bruce Schneier has vociferously attacked biometric IDs and the entire “national ID card” system:
Bruce Schneier, Crypto-Gram Newsletter, 15 August 1998.
But of course Bruce Schneier is just one of the world’s most renowned security experts, so what does he know? Obviously the failed screenwriter Mnemosyne is far more qualified to talk about security than Bruce Schneier.
And here’s what the Electronic Freedom Foundation has to say about biometric national ID cards, which Mnemosyne loves:
Some biometric technologies are discriminatory.A nontrivial percentage of the population cannot present suitable features to participate in certain biometric systems. Many people have fingers that simply do not “print well.” Even if people with “bad prints” represent 1% of the population, this would mean massive inconvenience and suspicion for that minority. And scale matters. The INS, for example, handles about 1 billion distinct entries and exits every year. Even a seemingly low error rate of 0.1% means 1 million errors, each of which translates to INS resources lost following a false lead.
Electronic Frontier Foundation “Biometric ID issues.”
So what the “sanest smartest person on this forum” is advocating is a crazy police state scheme that’s been condemned as “unworkable” and “dangerous” and “catastrophic” and “a fatal threat to an open democratic society” by all the foremost security experts and every expert on computer systems who has studied it.
So much for Mnemosyne being “one of the sanest smartest people on this blog.”
But wait..Mnemosyne has a lot more crazy evil proposals for you. Not content with a universal totalitarian biometric ID scheme that’s easy to forge and makes identity theft into the ultimate nightmare from hell? Wait — Mnemosyne has even better “sane and smart” ideas for you.
Ideas like murdering American citizens without even accusing them of a crime.
This is the grand plan of “one of the sanest smartest people on this forum” — send American death squads to kill U.S. citizens without even filing charges against them in a court of law. According to eemom, that’s “sane” and “smart.”
What the hell is wrong with you, eemom?
Don’t you have any children?
Don’t you realize that you are potentially advocating sending death squads out to murder your own children?
How sick are you, eemom?
I’ve seen warped and twisted people in my time, but for pure pathology, you really take the cake. You actually think it’s “sane” and “smart” for the president to order the murder of American citizens who haven’t even been charged with a crime?
But wait — the ignorant sociopath Mnemosyne isn’t done yet. She has plenty more sick brutal suggestions for us. Suggestions like attacking Iraq because “we can only take so many attacks before the American people demanded a response.”
Good one, Mnemosyne. Yes indeedy, the American people demanded that American troops invade Iraq, because as everyone knows, Iraq attacked America.
And when was that, exactly?
No, Saddam didn’t attack Americans at all. Mnemosyne merely explained as justified the American troops invading Iraq because someone else attacked America. Not Iraq.
That, according to eemom, is “one of the sanest smartest people on this blog” — a person who excuses away the U.S. invasion of Iraq because someone else (who had nothing to do with Iraq) attacked the twin towers.
That’s “sane” and “smart,” all right. If your neighbor punches you, burn down the house of someone who lives five blocks away. The guy whose house you’re burning had nothing to do with it, but according to Mnemosyne it makes good sense to torch his house…because someone attacked you.
Everything that comes out of Mnemosyne’s mouth is so crazy and so stupid, new dictionary entries are required to adequately describe the level of stupidity and sociopathy.
If it smacks of police-state thuggery, Mnemosyne is in favor of it. Universal biometric ID? She loves it. Innocent people kidnapped without charges and held forever? She applauds it. Murder U.S. citizens without even accusing ’em of a crime? Mnemosyne gets giddy with delight at the prospect.
You name the atrocity, and Mnemosyne is in favor of it.
This, according to eemom, is “one of the sanest smartest people on this blog”…someone who applauds mass murder, cheers on an Orwellian 1984-style police state, and claps her hands raw for the assassination of U.S. citizens without even accusing them of a crime.
You’re disgusting, eemom. Shame on you. Shame on you for living in America and praising a sociopath like Mnemosyne who applauds these atrocities, and for having the gall to call yourself an American. If Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin came back from the dead and listened to what you’ve said, they’d turn pale and put their heads down between their legs and puke their guts out.
eemom has been described as “just an ordinary person.” If that’s true, America is in BIG trouble.
Ija
@Tim:
John didn’t feel the need to start backing up his golden boy ED by writing stuff about privatizing everything. Why would he feel the need to back up ABL? At least she whines less than ED.
Tim
@Angry Black Lady:
ABL, you are out of control.
Glad to see you’ve had your good cry, and are trying to pretend you are back in the game.
It’s become a badge of honor to be accused of racism by you.
eemom
@mclaren:
In all seriousness. If what you post here is really representative of who you are and what you believe, and you’re not just a garden variety asshole troll, you are a deeply disturbed individual and should seek medical treatment.
Mental illness is just that, an illness.
Ronc99
John,
This blogsite is absolutely a RWer’s paradise for those that are too p*ssy to actually BE Republicans — which defines John to the T and his ongoing love affair with Ronald Reagan, governing while asleep in his Depends.
As for LTMidnite: Good luck getting Obama elected in the Midwest without white Progressives like me. Obama personally cited my hard work in turning Indiana blue in 2008, for the first time since 1964. Obama will NOT win Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, PA, VA, North Carolina and Florida in 2012. So good luck with your delusion you can win without us. Smarty pants!
In fact, I will be campaigning against Obama in 2012. You wannabe Republicans will be stomped in 2012 by the Democratic *base* How you say? We will either vote GOP or stay home, just as we did last month.
It’s about the electoral in 2012. I know that is over RWer moron, hippy punching morons like most that post on this site. Also include people like LTM who voted for Obama simply based on his skin color. Good luck with your small minority pushing Obama over the finish line. Good luck with getting gays to vote for your sorry Messiah, again. Good luck getting Hispanics to vote for a president who promised the DREAM Act to them in his first year of his presidency and negotiated it away to Republicans. Good luck getting seniors to vote for a Democratic president who’s getting ready to negotiate with a GOP majority to cut SS and Medicare benefits. Good luck with unions who were not given their signature legislation, ignored per usual. Good luck with getting working Americans to vote for Obama after his passage of the South Korean Free Trade agreement. NAFTA pales in comparison to it.
This Democratic veteran would rather have President Palin than this Madison Avenue created, best friend of Wall Street in Barack Hussein Obama. Put that in your centrist, moderate, RWer neocon *crack* bowls and choke on it!
Sincerely,
Ron Cordry
Bloomington, Indiana
Fr33d0m
Instead of hippie bashing, why don’t we just carve the liberals out of the party. Certainly there will be enough votes without them.
I thought only repugnicons used the hippie bashing tactic when they had no real argument.
Fr33d0m
In case there is any question, this is what should be done instead of hippie bashing.
ksmiami
@FormerSwingVoter: Meh – I can’t tolerate the place anymore.
Wear your hockey gear.
signed,
still a very loyal and proud Obama supporter. The Republican party must die
Mnemosyne
@mclaren:
Meanwhile, you claimed that if you lose your original Social Security card, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a new one and you can never get another job and are screwed forever.
Hmm, let’s see, which of us is more credible?
Oh, but I’m sure the Social Security Administration posted an entire fake website detailing a fake procedure just to fool all us sheeple, right?
Mnemosyne
@mclaren:
Yes, I realize that if I can’t quote you precisely, you start to claim that I’m a liar. Interestingly, you make the same claim even when I do quote you precisely, as with the jerking off to Holocaust footage accusations that you are extremely proud of making.
But, please, continue telling us all how the theoretical death of one man who is living in an al-Qaeda encampment is far, far more important than actual American citizens actually being imprisoned for the crime of being of Japanese descent.
Cite, please. Since you project every single one of your faults on to me, I can absolutely guarantee you that I never said those words. Ever.
Link to the post where I said those exact words. I’ll wait here while you desperately try to come up with something that vaguely resembles in and then claim that the two quotes are actually identical and only a sociopath couldn’t see that.
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne:
You do this to everybody. You take someone’s post, wordjumble the fuck out of it and proclaim that was what was originally said. You’re a fucking liar.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
No, that’s what YOU do.
And you’re also a low-life asshole — even more of one than usual — for exploiting the rantings of an obviously irrational person to further one of your own petty vendettas.
chaseyourtail
It’s called delusions of grandeur. The progressive left has been calling itself “the base” and taking credit for Obama’s election since he got elected. I’ve always found this claim to be astonishingly arrogant. The reality is, it was a coalition of varied political demographics that won Obama the presidency. But that doesn’t stop the left from pronouncing that they hold Obama’s political fate in their hands. They love to make threats like, “We made him and we can break him.” as if they’re the only ones who might vote for Obama again. Ironically, most of the people claiming to be Obama’s base are the same people who reluctantly voted for him in the first place. If anything, they’re Ralph Nader’s base, not Obama’s.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
This blog appears to be really just fucked right now.
I blame Obama.
chaseyourtail
@TominNola:
Wow. What an embarrassing mess Hamsher was on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show last night. All she did was ramble off talking points to avoid answering his questions directly. She couldn’t back up one thing she said. She came across as a complete hack…which of course, she is.
tam1MI
Black. It’s the New PUMA!
The Raven
JMC_in_the_ATL
@Tim: She’s not the only one that thinks you’re a racist misosgynist douchebag.
Honest.
Wile E. Quixote
Oh goody. mclaren is having another angergasm and spooging his rage all over Balloon Juice.
Wile E. Quixote
@Ronc99:
Jesus Ron, if progressive activists are all as whiny, ineffectual and self-aggrandizing as you are then it’s no wonder that the Democratic party keeps getting its ass kicked over and over and over again. I mean dude, you’re from Indiana and despite all of your progressive activism the best you could do was elect Evan “I love the taste of insurance industry cock” Bayh. Do you even begin to understand how much you fucking suck?
Do you know what I hate most about assholes like you Ron? It’s not that you’re stupid. Or ineffectual. Or self-aggrandizing. Or that you fucking twats in Indiana elected that useless Blue Dog piece of shit Evan Bayh. It’s the fact that if your nihilistic, jackoff fantasies of President Palin taking office in 2013 take place progressive dipshits like you won’t be one of the ones who suffer. Hell no, you’ll probably just pull a David Horowitz and cash in by becoming a fascist and condemning liberalism.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Just going back and reading the thread (because I have already pulled my fingernails out with pliers, so I can’t do that tonight) … and came across this.
Now this …. this is some right fine damned spoofass material. This line of dialogue really works well if you have the president say it in Ebonics(tm).
I mean aside from the fact that the speech is probably a goddam felony, threatening to use the IRS as part of a blackmail scheme where a federal agency is employed as a weapon … some gangsta lexicon would really spark this up.
“Evruh mothaFUCKah makes 10 million a yeahh gwineto get mah AhAhhEss stick upizz ASS, do you heahh me Bownuh”
Something like that. Ham it up a little.
Come on, the thread needs a little juice, a little sump’n-sump’n.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Here’s what a president should look like when he goes after those Republixans.
Lit3Bolt
Shorter John Cole:
say: /2 firebaggers sux, BJ rules
[2: Trade] Tunchanator: firebaggers sux, BJ rules
[2: Trade] GnomeJ: yes
[2: Trade] Angryblacknightelf: lol
[2: Trade] Edworgen: LOOOOOOL
[2: Trade] Kaypriest: …..
[2: Trade] Mnemosyne: WTS Battered Hilt 1k
chopper
@Tim:
oh jesus, you’re one of those guys. tell us more about how 9/11 was an inside job.
chopper
@eemom:
this.
eemom
@LikeableInMyOwnWay:
lmao. Awesome.
ETA: still, ya gotta admit that “IRS colonoscopy” was a nice touch.
Mnemosyne
@Corner Stone:
If I bug you so much, why the hell don’t you pie me? I try to ignore you unless you address me directly, and I would really prefer if you would do the same.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@eemom:
It was, it was.
Jay
Did Rove ever call Bush’s base retards? Did Bush ever go after his base in public?
MrTemecula
When the Democratic base is 20% African-American, I don’t see the ‘other’ base actually winning. And even if they do win, how the hell are they going to win 2012 when 20% of their real base sits out. I’m a liberal and that’s just electoral suicide. Fellas, it’s just money, not your core values. You can always tax the rich later and since you utterly failed to take care of this issue this year, well, this is what you get. Don’t blame Barack for trying to protect the weakest segments of our society. Next time, be adults instead of trying to game the elections. Nothing gets done that way. Look at the Republicans. The party of doing absolutely nothing except gaming the system. Don’t be like them.
ellid
Thank you, John. I’m glad someone isn’t so blinded by hate and ideological purity that they’ve lost all sense of proportion.
Johnny Pez
The Professional Left: You know, John, “Vote For Obama, The Banker’s Friend” is actually a pretty sucky campaign slogan.
John Cole: It is not! It’s a great campaign slogan! It’s a WINNING campaign slogan! And if only you fucking firebaggers would CLAP LOUDER, everyone would vote for Barack Obama, The Banker’s Friend!
The Professional Left: Whatever.
News Reference
“MrTemecula” (? Michael Steele?),
40% of Democratic voters in 2010 were Liberals.
You know, that loyal group of Democratic voters that Obama’s Chief of Staff called “f#ckin retarded” and Obama himself called “sanctimonious” ‘purists’.
MrTemecula
@News Reference:
News Reference (Ralph?)
40% percent is a large number, but how many are Naderites willing to abandon the party to regressives worse than Bush.
Look how well that worked out in 2000.
From your post, ‘f# retards,’ ‘sanctimonious,’ and ‘purists’ are accurate descriptions. So, put on your berets and Che t-shirts. Fire up the Clash songs and man the barricades. I once lived the lifestyle, but now I’m more concerned about food on the table and a roof over our heads.
christian
A lot of the “base” is former Republicans like Kos, Arianna, Cenk, Ed and others. They tend to be the most self-righteous, like reformed alcoholics. How Arianna is never called out on TV for her buddy-buddys like Newt and Breitbart show the real problem — a corporatist media who also hates Obama.
And the Pro Left will eat themselves up again.