I’ll leave the higher moral questions of whether Anthony Weiner should resign to the fainting couch brigade, but the politics are dirt simple. Weiner should remain in his seat until the next general election.
In the last two cycles, New York has seen two special elections where “safe” Republican districts have flipped. In both (NY-23 and NY-26), a Tea Party candidate split the Republican vote, but that’s not the only reason that Republicans lost.
In New York, the special election candidate is picked by the party committee. In both NY-23 and NY-26, the sclerotic, clueless Republican party apparatchiks picked a party insider while telling other qualified, arguably better candidates to piss up a rope. In both cases, the insider was an unprepared member of the state legislature who hadn’t ever faced a tough campaign, and the angry outsiders made the process a major campaign issue. There’s no reason to think that the Democratic committee in NY-9, which is also unaccustomed to competitive races, will do any better. More importantly, the next few months may allow a better Democratic candidate to surface, instead of the “safe pick” state legislator.
Special elections also tempt the Democratic and Republican national committees into spending a huge amount of money on a race that would normally get little or no support. NY-9 is normally in the “safe seat” column, and it’s likely that the DCCC will spend little or nothing on it in 2012. But in a special, it’s easy to imagine the DCCC dumping millions into the expensive New York media market. Democrats need to save their pennies to support more competitive seats next year.
Weiner didn’t do anything that will merit more than a slap on the wrist from the House Ethics committee, and whatever national political damage he could do has already been done. He needs to stay in his seat, turn off his Blackberry, and ride out the next year so that Democrats can hold NY-9.
Morbo
But don’t you see? This is why Lee Stranahan is no longer a liberal.
MikeJ
I’m not entirely convinced Weiner should leave at the end of his term. As long as he’s not telling other people what to do with their genitals I don’t care what he does with his. At least not as a matter of public policy.
David in NY
This morning, Rupert Murdoch is telling Weiner to resign. Therefore, Weiner should not resign. QED
rob!
Weiner should check everyday that if Vitter is still in the Senate. If he is, then Weiner stays put.
Paula
I just don’t see why he should resign. The voters will decide his fate.
Paul W.
A very incisive case for why Weiner should stay, all of which makes sense to me.
urizon
NY-9 has been a safe Democratic seat for generations (Schumer and Ferraro are former holders of this seat). The last Republican elected was Andrew Peterson in the 1920s. There is NO WAY this seat will ever flip. If there’s a special election (which I seriously doubt), the GOP would mount little more than a token campaign.
Weiner will survive this, anyway.
PurpleGirl
He has to give up the fancy smart phone — they present too much temptation to him. If he needs a cell phone he should get a pre-paid account from Virgin Mobile. He’ll be able the talk to people — for short periods time and conduct basic business like telling people he’s in transit, etc.
stuckinred
@PurpleGirl: He better stay away from the Virgin Mobile IMHO.
arguingwithsignposts
@stuckinred: Lol
Fargus
@MikeJ: This times a thousand.
Vitter violated his constituents’ trust by violating the “family values” piece of his campaign that he used to pitch himself to them, and by breaking the law. Ensign did the same. Weiner violated his wife’s trust, but that’s a private matter. He did nothing to violate the trust of his constituents.
PeakVT
@urizon: If I were the corporate boss of the GOP, I would run at least a half-hearted campaign just because it would give the media the opportunity to say “Weiner” dozens of times a day, chewing up time that might be spent on other topics, like Ryan’s medicare plan.
JPL
He’s becoming the Tiger Woods of twitter. The recipients are coming out daily so the story won’t just fade away. I do wish he would say that I will resign when Diaperman Vitter resigns.
PurpleGirl
@stuckinred: LOL.
But it’s a rather cheap pre-paid account; unlike Verizon there are no daily charges for the possible use of the phone. (I have one and it’s affordable.)
Cassidy
Weiner shouldn’t quit at all. AAMOF, his next campaign posters should involve the picture with the phrase “I took a picture of my junk. It could be worse”, followed by pics of Newt, Vitter, Foley, Craig, etc.
AliceBlue
This is a good common sense argument that I’m in agreement with. Unfortunately, if the scuttlebut is true (nude photos, offering “PR” help to a porn star), there will be enormous pressure for him to resign.
Bulworth
Heh, indeed.
Daddy-O
Weiner should stay put because we need his vote.
It’s the exact same reason, more or less, why Republicans never resign–unless they’re about to face ethics or legal charges, like Ensign.
Fagedaboudit, ayyy…!
Maddie
I get this argument but it fails to take in to consideration the larger Democratic party fortunes. The party has been doing much better lately with messaging about Republican Medicare cuts and the important PR from winning NY-26 surrounding that issue. Weiner sucked all the air out of the room with this scandal and his poor handling/lying about it. The message MUST be good for the party going in to 2012 to help the WHOLE batch of D candidates and the President. That is the larger and more important part. We’ll keep NY-9 whether he stays or not, but if he keeps screwing up the message, he should resign.
sixers
He’s done after his term and its questionable as to if he shouldn’t resign. Read those emails encouraging people to lie. Thats not a person you want representing you. Saying assholes like Vitter didn’t quit so why should he is lowering yourself to the Vitter supporters level.
jon
He cheated, he lied, and I don’t really care. Only if he sent photos to women who asked him not to is he a scumbag. Until then, he’s just a slut.
And I don’t consider a slut to be a bad person.
Chris
This is a no-brainer. Weiner lied about a private matter that was none of the public’s business. Meanwhile, Paul Ryan’s lying about what his proposed health care plan would do, which unlike Weiner’s wiener is extremely relevant to his duties as an elected official.
Weiner can resign for lying about this “scandal” when Ryan resigns for lying about his health care plan. Until then, the right can piss off and Weiner stays in place.
cat48
They’re eliminating 2 Seats in NY state in redistricting. He should stay for now, but as pissed Nancy Smash is (so I’ve heard & read) he should not be surprised if his seat is eliminated.
Personally, I don’t care if he stays, if he can BEhave! No blackberry for you!
Daddy-O
@MikeJ: Amen, bruh.
There is a difference, however, when hypocritical Republicans pressure you to resign, and when fellow Democrats pressure you to resign…
I don’t care about Anthony Weiner’s sex life. I care about MY sex life…!
stuckinred
@PurpleGirl: I’m down. just foolin around
Fred
2 words.
David Vitter.
A senator caught with a hooker and he just got re-elected. Wieners scandal is 1/10th as serious.
Suffern ACE
@AliceBlue: I laugh out loud at the press getting their panties in a twist that someone might use a PR firm to lie to them – as if it is witness tampering to lie to them. As if they don’t retype stuff from PR departments every day and call it reporting.
Daddy-O
@Maddie: Good point, and it contradicts my own. But think about this: If he resigns, THAT is GOP fodder, too. There’s no way to win, so why should he resign?
Steve
The dispositive issue is how much he used public resources in connection with this whole mess. If that’s not a problem, none of the rest of this really amounts to much.
Chris
@jon:
I consider a cheater to be a bad person. But it’s really irrelevant to what he’s doing in office. Our politicians all have character flaws, but I’m more interested in those that pertain to their duties in office than in what goes on with their privates. Unless the latter is a criminal action, which this clearly wasn’t.
(That’s applicable to all politicians, including Newt Gingrich and the horde of people on the other side of the aisle. But there, it’s just funny to watch them squirm in the nets that they themselves created).
drkrick
@urizon:
The GOP has lost seats that were theirs since the 1870’s, and Ted Kennedy was replaced by a Republican – these special elections are always a crapshoot. He should stay put and let his replacement be chosen through the normal process.
Tarly
http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2011/06/07/anthony_weiner_1991/index.html
gnomedad
If his Weiner has stayed put, there wouldn’t be a problem.
Steve M.
The Times says that this guy is being sought out as a candidate. When he was on the City Council, he won a couple elections by blowout margins and (see that last link) he can make a not unconvincing claim to the tradition of old-school Democratic fight-for-the-little-guy populism, which still sells here. I never want to say anything’s a sure thing (hello, Martha Coakley), but I don’t think he’d have much trouble winning.
OzoneR
@urizon:
The numbers have been flipped around a lot, the last Republican to represent the area that is now NY-9 was Albert Bosch in the 1950s. Seymour Halpern represented the eastern half of the district in Queens in the 1960s. I believe parts of the eastern half of the district were in John LeBoutlier’s in the early 1980s.
That said, this is a district that changed post-9/11, a lot of firefighters, cops, pro-Israel nuts. Gore got 68%, Kerry got 56%, Obama got 55%, even Paladino got close to 40% I believe. A Republican can win NY-9 in a special with low turnout and a bad Dem candidate, and there aren’t many good option. There’s a GOP councilman in Queens who I hear is popular, and Republicans can always file a Wilson-Pakula to get a conservative Dem to run as a Rep.
And don’t forget, NY-23 hasn’t been represented by a Democrat since the 1850s, that is until 2009.
ChrisNYC
They’re already talking to Eric Gioia. Not state leg (which is really irrelevant in NYC) — former city council, like Weiner.
Fred
@gnomedad: It did, or haven’t you been paying attention?
sixers
Wasn’t the major reason for people here not to believe that he tweeted crotch shots was that Brietbart is a proven liar? I heard that over and over. Now Weiner is the proven liar and now we’re ok with him getting another term? Hypocritical much?
Violet
@Maddie:
Agreed. Unless there’s some compelling reason why Weiner should stay in the seat, like a great Republican candidate who would most likely win the special election, I think he should probably go. If the news is just going to drip, drip, drip out for weeks, that’s not at all good for the Democrats.
Chris Lee apparently had contacted more than one woman prior to the one who got him caught, but he resigned quickly and even though other women were mentioned, it was old news and vanished quickly.
MikeJ
@cat48:
Nancy doesn’t pick. New York does.
gnomedad
@Fred:
Can’t let facts get in the way of a good punch line.
OzoneR
@Steve M.: He lives just outside the district, but he has run citywide and he’s part of the Gerry Ferraro-esque Democratic club. I can see it.
But to run Gioia might be an attempt at saving the district from being chopped up.
OzoneR
@cat48:
The election results out of NY-9 in the last few years are the reason to eliminate it.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
@David in NY: Close the thread. It really is this simple.
boss bitch
@Daddy-O:
for what?
Cacti
If the voters in his District want him to stay, he should stay. If not, he should hit the road.
In the meantime, he should keep his mouth shut and not expect the Democratic caucus to spend even an ounce of political capital on protecting his dumb ass.
Tim, Interrupted
@Fargus:
Do you have inside information on what may or may not be included in the Weiners’ private, marital discussions/negotiations/arrangements if any? Is it any of your business?
If so, please share. If not, you should probably zip it.
Thanks.
jon
“HEY! Let’s make that Wiener kid sing his song. Wanna?”–Andrew Breitbart
If only the press conference was this awesome.
WyldPirate
Weiner should stay put because what he did was no one’s business.
He was stupid and he lied about it. Big fucking deal. The entire government is full of fucking stupid liars. No where is more infected with this sort of vermin than Capitol Hill.
dpCap
That’s exactly what happened to Martha Coakley against Scott Brown. She was so clueless it was sad.
(I mean seriously Martha, do you have Aspergers or something!?! You DON’T insult the Red Sox in front of Fenway Park while trying to court Massachusetts voters.)
Tim, Interrupted
@sixers:
Been reading those emails yourself, have you? Been sniffing around this story good and hard, getting all the details, have you? Looked at all the nasty pics, getting your outrage on, have you, there on your fainting couch?
If W encouraged people to lie, he encouraged them to lie about issues that are nobody’s fucking business to begin with. Good on him.
rikyrah
if his constituents vote him out, then so be it.
this is between him and his wife, who should have left his ass when he was quiet as mice pissing on cotton during the entire ‘MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO’ bullshyt.
Tim, Interrupted
@Chris:
My god, this is just so fucking common sense true. This is what the alleged Dem commenters here and in Congress should be pushing instead of buying into the media/republican outrage meme.
urizon
@OzoneR Thanks for the info. But we should remember that cops and firefighters are unions members, who are likely to vote Democratic in the current climate. Weiner received just over 60 percent of the vote last time out, which is the closest anyone has come to unseating him. And the GOP has no bench in the city, these days. Even if he does resign, it should be a relatively easy hold.
@drkrick Agreed. Anything can happen. But Brown was a statewide election and NY-9 is solidly blue microcosm. It would take a major upheaval, some sort of blatant criminal wrongdoing, for the GOP to have a shot at picking this one up, even in a special election.
And, of course, Weiner should not resign. At worse, he’ll receive a House Reprimand.
And he’ll probably have to wait till 2017 to run for mayor (perhaps not). But this will all go down the memory hole, eventually.
kay
Well, I think he should resign, and it has nothing to do with a “fainting couch” on his actual behavior that inspired ten days of ludicrous lies.
I would have had zero problem with the actual behavior if he had simply admitted it the first day and hadn’t lied for ten days, and instructed other people to lie, and watched while ordinary people who admired him defended him. Hell, I would have defended him if he had simply said “I don’t comment on my personal life”.
That his hard work on covering it up including writing (incredibly!) self-promoting statements is just disgusting:
Sorry. I don’t have any respect for him. None. The idea that he’s some brave sojourner for truth is insane. He’s brave and principled, unless his ass is on the line. In that case, when it’s him, he’s an absolute coward who hides behind other people. While he was demanding Clarence Thomas explain his amended disclosure forms, he was writing emails instructing other people (his “fans”, to use his own words) to lie. Nice.
If he doesn’t resign, of course his voters will decide, but personally? I think he should have (willingly) resigned.
Fred
@kay: Yawn,
Watch this an learn you fool!
http://youtu.be/5eKvBZ_PqN4
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
Weiner should stay in his seat just because fuck those bastards.
Stillwater
@gnomedad: If his Weiner has stayed put, there wouldn’t be a problem.
Personally, I think Weiner needs to be less rigid about this and shake off the insults dribbling out. Surely he’s got to maintain a cool head and keep his pants on over this.
Tim, Interrupted
@kay:
Sorry to see you taking the Republican/Beltway line, Kay. You’re better than that. Talk about purity trolls…
Tim, Interrupted
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
YES YES YES
Cacti
@kay:
And he’s progressive…
Unless it concerns the first amendment rights of certain unpopular religions.
The guy’s a big fat phony who’s popular with lefty internet trolls because he’s bombastic.
Between Edwards and Weiner, it’s been a tough year for left-trolls. Who will be their new self-righteous show pony?
lacp
To paraphrase the quote attributed to Talleyrand, “Worse than an embarrasment, it is a distraction!”
kay
@Tim, Interrupted:
It isn’t either/or. I can look into Clarence Thomas and Paul Ryan and still believe Wiener is a coward and a liar.
Look, I didn’t judge his (original) behavior. He did. By his actions, he’s screaming that he considers this behavior very damaging to his career. Ten days of elaborate lies will tend to leave that impression.
Anthony Weiner was complicit in making this bigger than it is, so I can only conclude he thinks it’s incredibly shameful and something to run from. How do I know that? He ran from it.
Anthony Weiner doesn’t buy your defense. If he did, he would have relied on it.
kay
@Tim, Interrupted:
Incidentally, I buy your defense. I don’t think it’s anyone’s business. So why didn’t Anthony Weiner rely on our principled defense?
“I don’t comment on my personal life”. Over and over and over.
OzoneR
@urizon:
In Wisconsin maybe, not in Queens. They’ll never vote Democratic again, union or not.
whatever been they do have is in this district.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
@kay: Kay, you say a lot that I agree with. That being said, you’re just wrong about this.
When Vitter resigns (for committing an actual crime – patronizing a hooker) then we can talk. Ever notice that Republicans don’t resign for this kind of shit? Ever? Worst case they are forced to not stand for re-election, and that’s only if (Ensign) there is stone-cold evidence of an embarrassing multitude of crimes that won’t go away.
In the meantime, why get rid of a guy who votes the right way 95% of the time just because he did something you find distasteful?
rumple
@ Kay
Ten days of lying is nothing. This is a blip. If he resigns, he’s got half the stones that he’s thus far shown. (a cheap joke, but it’s just not out of my system yet)
I don’t understand what’s wrong with these guys that they think that the internet is “safe” for this kind of stupid sh.t. It doesn’t matter which side they’re on–it just seems like a particular gene is missing. It just sucks when the gene is missing from one of the bright ones.
Chris
@kay:
Hey, like I said, the guy seems like a dick to me too (NPI). I just don’t see what his dickery is doing as front-page news, or why it’s being blown into a case of Watergateian proportions.
I don’t see why his ass should’ve been on the line in the first place, IOW, or why his lying about it is such a huge deal. If we lived in a country where any lie to the public was considered a major transgression, that’d be one thing, but we clearly don’t. The fact that this, of all the lies being told in Washington, is the one that held the media’s attention is pathetic, and a hell of a revealing look at their priorities.
stuckinred
@kay: They all lie every fucking day. All of them, it’s part of the job.
kay
@Tim, Interrupted:
That’s a way of shutting me down, and you’re better than that.
I’m not taking any “line”.
Weiner either 1. thinks it’s incredibly shameful (which is what he said, Tim, I might remind you) OR he thinks it’s politically damaging so is pretending to think it’s shameful.
That’s not our defense. Our defense is “it is no one’s business”. He coulda used ours, but he didn’t, so I don’t think he agrees with us. He lied a whole bunch and then bought the beltway line. Whole. He swallowed it, complete with tears. It’s shameful and bad. He said so.
Steve
@Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory:
Didn’t Chris Lee resign? Didn’t Larry Craig resign? Didn’t Mark Souder resign? Maybe I’m missing some subtle irony in your screen name.
kay
@Chris:
If you want to make this distinction, between important lies about public affairs and weasely lies based on personal behavior, how does Anthony Weiner lying about his personal life advance that?
Anthony Weiner doesn’t agree with us. He thinks this is HUGE, or, he’s lying again with his tearful confession.
I think you have to take this up with Anthony Weiner. He’s not getting your distinction. I get it. He’s the one who refused to rely on it.
stuckinred
@kay: Here Kay, try some science
Why are so many men acting badly? The easy answer is to just say that these men are high-testosterone-driven cheaters who choose to make bad decisions. They should be divorced, scorned and ridiculed. They should just say no and stop being so stupid, we think.
Anonne
If Vitter is there, then Weiner has the prerogative to stay. Sexting is not criminal, or unethical as it pertains to his job. Whorin’ outside of Nevada, though, is.
handsmile
After watching this morning’s local New York City broadcasts and seeing the stories being peddled in newsprint, I call Anthony Weiner’s DC office to leave a message imploring him to remain in office. Like his colleague Charles Rangel. he must withstand the feral onslaught of a news media for whom ethical misbehavior merits condemnation only if the individual is a member of the Democratic Party.
Not one of these media Savonarolos declared as unfit for office or called for the resignation of Carl Paladino as the Republican candidate for the 2010 New York gubernatorial race. Paladino, as some may recall, emailed dozens of graphic pornographic images and videos, including one of a woman being fucked by a horse. (My apologies, but I believe this must be described bluntly.) He also fathered a daughter in an extramarital relationship (an action identical to that of former GOP Staten Island congressman Vito Fosella, who likewise endured no prolonged media scrutiny or indignation).
Both Paladino and his campaign manager initially denied having emailed the pornographic and other racist messages. By the time, he grudgingly conceded that he merely “forwarded” those materials to business associates (employed in the manly business trades, so what’s the big deal), there was a new shiny object, “Was Andrew Cuomo cheating on his girlfriend?!”, consuming our salivating scribes.
Let me disclose that Weiner is not my congressman. I have the great good fortune to be represented by Carolyn Maloney. Like many other posters on this topic, I am deeply disappointed by Weiner’s behavior, perhaps most of all because his full-throated denunciations of Republican legislative barbarism will now be muzzled. But another New York champion of progressive social and economic policies (Ellott Spitzer) has already been hounded from office by these moral scourges. Not one more.
I fully expect that Anthony Weiner’s constituents will be as forgiving of his tweets as David Vitter’s were of his diapers.
Also, too, I know I know: media moral hypocrisy. Yep, and the sun rises in the east. But some mornings the fury is simply too great to stifle and I strive not to drink until noon.
kay
@stuckinred:
Oh, I don’t go much into motive. I’m basically shallow :)
I also think other people’s marriages and/or romantic relationships are mysterious and unknowable. Plenty of people lie and act badly, men and women.
It’s not the end of the world. I personally would have defended Weiner if he had simply 1. stonewalled or 2. admitted, and let the chips fall. I won’t defend him now, and I think he should resign, because he’s a lying pain in the ass mess who distracts and is an idiot.
kay
@Fred:
Learn what, Fred? Learn why Anthony Weiner thinks his behavior is so shameful he willingly adopted the “I’m a big lying douchebag and I’ll do better” line?
Jesus. He did everything but lick beltway boots. The word “craven” comes to mind.
Why is it my job to pick up a defense for him if he won’t even stand on it?
sixers
@Tim, Interrupted:
Classy response. Just remember how you’ve gone from screaming “proven liar!” to backing one. Nice code of ethics you’ve got going there.
Lawnguylander
We can’t let a lying, embarrassing scumbag gap develop between the Democrats and the Republicans so Weiner must stay.
The best argument I’ve heard so far for him not resigning is that it pisses off the wingnuts (except for the fact that I bet they really hope he stays). Hell, if they can idle their cars in their driveways and stuff themselves full of HFCS and transfats we can stay loyal to this reckless clown.
Tim, Interrupted
@kay:
Kay, I appreciate your cogent response, and I agree with what you say in this comment, though I do not agree that he should resign, even now. People panic, people do irrational things under extreme pressure. I still don’t buy that this merits capitulation.
What he needs is to have YOU running his PR at this point. :)
Valdivia
@kay:
exactly what you said.
kay
@Lawnguylander:
I can’t. I’d have to get past his craven boot-licking to do so, and I don’t think he’ll let me.
I don’t know how you defend someone who won’t defend themselves. Is he somehow impaired? Why does he need us to pick up his righteous privacy cause? I heard he was quite the word-man, back in the day, before his complete and total surrender to Andrew Breitbart. Seems like he could have made the case.
I’m not fighting for people who won’t fight for themselves. He’s a big boy. I think he can continue to grovel without my help.
Tim, Interrupted
@stuckinred:
stuck, I hate you for sending me to HP.
Tim, Interrupted
@handsmile:
Handsmile, I like your writing style. Nice.
Fred
@kay: Why are you not calling on Vitter to resign immediately?
Tim, Interrupted
@sixers:
Sixers, could you specify what statements of mine you are referring to? At that point I will be happy to respond. Perhaps I have been hypocritical. Who is the “proven liar” to whom I referred and under what circumstances, contrasted with the Weiner thing? Can’t know unless you point the way.
Thanks.
Admiral_Komack
Anthony Weiner: Obama Is ‘Not A Values Guy’
First Posted: 03/16/11 04:58 PM Updated: 03/16/11 04:58 PM
WASHINGTON — Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) and a handful of other House Democrats expressed deep frustration with President Barack Obama’s leadership on Wednesday, saying he needs to do more to set the direction for the progressive movement.
Across the aisle, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has struggled to wrangle the various wings of his conference and pass budget measures through the lower chamber. Weiner told a group of journalists and bloggers on Capitol Hill that the Republican leader has a tough job of trying to hold “a coalition of crazies and completely crazies together.”
But Republicans, Weiner said, have nonetheless long done a better job of making their case — “smaller government, smaller deficits, lower taxes” — to the public and each other. The Democratic Party remains unclear as to its core policy principles, Weiner said, and part of the problem is Obama.
“On our side is this weird squishy affirmative sense of what government should do and how we’re opposed to this cut and that cut, rather than saying, ‘Here are the things: Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, environment and education. We’re not cutting those. Those are off the table. That’s non-negotiable,'” said Weiner, adding, “We haven’t really done that very well. That’s because the president fundamentally — he’s not a values guy. He wants to try to get the best deal for the American people and that’s virtuous in its own right, but it becomes very difficult to make a strategy. There’s been much greater global strategy thinking on [progressive media] outlets, frankly, than at 1600 Pennsylvania.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/anthony-weiner-obama-not-a-values-guy_n_836664.html
-Who’s a values guy now, Weiner?
The Democrats were making their case (victory in special House election in Buffalo & attacking Republicans over Medicare) before you lied about your stupid tweets, therby stepping on their message.
I agree with Kay:
“Sorry. I don’t have any respect for him. None. The idea that he’s some brave sojourner for truth is insane. He’s brave and principled, unless his ass is on the line. In that case, when it’s him, he’s an absolute coward who hides behind other people. While he was demanding Clarence Thomas explain his amended disclosure forms, he was writing emails instructing other people (his “fans”, to use his own words) to lie. Nice.”
Who’s the values guy now, Weiner?
I’ll give you a hint, not a tweet:
IT AIN’T YOU.
sixers
We are all David Vitter supporters now.
kay
@Tim, Interrupted:
I agree with that, that people do weird and irrational things.
My point is (and you gave me the word I was looking for) that Weiner capitulated.
He capitulated completely, on each and every substantive point. Oh, AND he wants the job. Now that he’s been sufficiently shamed and chastened by Andrew Fucking Breitbart, of all people.
Tim, Interrupted
@kay:
Please call his office and offer your services. I am beginning to think you are awesome.
kay
@Fred:
Because I’m not a Republican, Fred.
I’m not in the mood to bravely stand for Weiner’s rights when Weiner went crawling away two days ago, after hiding behind 15 people for ten days.
I don’t think he’s worth my defense. He’s all but refused it, Fred, so it’s pointless for me to offer it, even if I did care about his psyche, which I don’t.
Admiral_Komack
@kay:
From the time Weinergate started throbbing I thought, “Why is this guy saying everything but “I have instructed law-enforcement to investigate this matter, and that is all I have to say on the subject”?”
Well, when Weinergate finally came (so to speak) to a head, we got the answer, and NONE of the New York Democrats wanted to follow him.
danimal
The guy needs to step aside, if not now, then at the end of his term. He could help the progressive cause with a media job taking the fight to the wingers; he has a talent for that already. He would be much more interesting as a lefty talking head. He’s never been much of a legislator, really.
Weiner hurt himself, and the Dem momentum, by prolonging this non-issue well belong the expiration date. As has been noted, a simple “no comment on personal matters” would have led to a couple of long days and then the media would chase another shiny object. Instead, we got, “I can’t tell with certitude that this pic is actually my junk…” He guaranteed himself a media feeding frenzy with that line, which he repeated quite a bit.
More importantly, he lied to his constituents and his cohort in the Dem congressional delegation, leading them astray with his hacking claim. That is where the issue became a public, rather than a personal one. By sucking up all the media oxygen on this trivial matter, he did great harm at a time when the GOP was on the ropes.
I guess it’s too much to expect a veteran congressman to avoid being a big dick.
justawriter
Another way to spin this is to ask every chance we have, “Will this derail the Thomas impeachment hearings?” If there is a perception that Wiener=Thomas impeachment in the minds of the Beltway, they will shut up about it so fast that I foresee a few jaws getting broken.
kay
@Admiral_Komack:
Well, he wouldn’t have had to say that if he had just said “this is my personal life” because that omission was based on the first lie, which was that he was hacked. He was victimized, he said.
To me, it’s like people who come to me for help after they call the police on someone else and are subsequently themselves picked up, which happens more often than you can possibly imagine.
“was it WISE to call the police to your home, you being you, and all?”
Chris
@kay:
I’m not defending the guy. I’m simply pointing out how full of shyte the media is for focusing on this when so many of them didn’t bat a freaking eyelid at the lies being told about the Ryan Plan, health care reform, or the invasion of Iraq.
Hell, I’ll settle for equal treatment of all those lies. But the fact that Weiner’s wiener (yeah, I know, I’m five years old) creates such towering, broad-based outrage compared to those other cases is pretty hysterical. Is anyone calling for Ryan’s resignation over his repeated “those aren’t the vouchers you’re looking for” moments?
Ryan should not resign, nor should anyone push for his resignation, simply because that’s not the appropriate penalty for this. Not my opinion: Official Washington precedent.
FlipYrWhig
@danimal:
New show: Weiner Spitzer!
kay
@Chris:
I know. I’m completely sympathetic to that. But that’s Weiner’s argument to make. He was too cowardly to make it.
He as much as shouted: “this is very, very important, so I’ll make up crazy lies for days, involve tens of other people, and then completely capitulate to the DC moral judgment and conventional wisdom, in the most groveling and debasing manner possible”.
How can I defend that behavior? He won’t defend himself. He was too scared to make your (larger) argument because he was concerned about his career.
I don’t see how he’s any different than the people you’re upset with. He’s cemented the CW you disdain, by his actions after the first revelations.
NedPointsman
Throw this terror supporting kahanist in prison where he belongs.
dollared
@kay: I love you, Kay, but Weiner should not resign. Liberal Democrats who hold everyone up to the standards of 1960s liberal democrats – which is what you are doing – make three fundamental mistakes:
1. drastically misperceive the ethical standards of the 1960s (they could hide things much better back then);
2. miss the difference between corruption on the financial side with the people’s money (which was really bad back then and now is endorsed by Conservative commentators, Senators, Presidents and Supreme Court Justices as Business as Usual), and ordinary, human sexual pecadillos (Franklin Roosevelt, anyone?). We need to get focus back on the first or we will turn into Argentina, and you aren’t helping at all.
3. Want to feel good about themselves as Moral Democrats, rather than prioritize the well being of the millions of people who depend on us to WIN OVER THOSE GODDAMNED EVIL REPUBLICANS WHO ARE STEALING OUR FRIENDS’ and NEIGHBORS’ MONEY, CIVIL RIGHTS AND PEACE OF MIND.
Keep him, and every time someone points at him, point out the lies and corruption or Republicans. Every goddamned time. And swallow your goddamned pride. I’ll never shake his hand, but I’ll defend his right to keep his seat.
kay
@dollared:
Why is it so important to you to pretend I care about his tweets?
He cares about his Tweets. How do I know that? Oh, ten days of lame desperate lies and then a complete capitulation, where he told us again how important his personal life is to his job.
Your beef is with the coward you’re defending, not with me. He’s the one who capitulated completely on the substantive privacy/personal issue question, not me.
I’m standing up here alone, bravely defending Andrew Weiner, who is over there crying in the corner, doing some ridiculous shame act for the camera, apologizing to Breitbart and the assembled members of the DC media? I’ll pound the table and insist he shouldn’t be ashamed and shouldn’t be addressing this! But…where is Weiner?
That’s nuts. I’m not doing it, and you’re not going to shut me down by making some long argument about my (alleged) 1960’s personal beliefs.
They deserve each other. Breitbart, Weiner and the soul-dead pundit ghouls. I’m not in that.
dollared
@kay: OK, Kay, when finally caught, he’s playing the shame game. I don’t like it either. But resign? Why? ‘Cause you’re mad?
Three-nineteen
@kay: Why is it up to you to decide whether or not Weiner should resign? You’re not one of his constituents. You don’t have to say anything on the subject. You can just stay silent. Not calling for his resignation is not the same thing as defending him.
Weiner didn’t commit a crime. (“Possibly misusing Congressional time and resources” is the stupidest thing about this scandal). The distraction issue is bullshit – if it’s not this, Republicans/the media will just find something else to distract everyone. I have an opinion about what he did, but I’m neither defending him nor condemning him because he’s not my Congressman. I’ve got bigger things to worry about, because my Congressman is Paul Ryan.
kay
@Three-nineteen:
“Calling for his resignation” is a little formal, considering I have no power re: him or his resignation. I also (of course) understand that if he stays he will sit for an election.
I stated my opinion on whether I thought he should resign, and this is a political opinion site. Do you state opinions on only those elected officials you can or will vote for?
Mistermix wants to hold the seat, so that’s one opinion, I, conversely, think Weiner is more of a liability than he is of value in the seat. I think Democrats in Congress are going to have to defend him, and I don’t think he’s worth it, just judging by his cowardly and venal behavior post-alleged wrong-doing.
kay
@dollared:
I see that as bringing me in more to his personal life, and I didn’t want to be IN his personal life in the first place.
A confession or apology assumes acceptance or refusal. It’s another fucking imposition by this drama addict. Enough, Andrew. Just do something you’re better suited for, like punditry.
Three-nineteen
@kay: Fair enough. Your arguments just sound like you are taking this very personally. Mistermix made an argument regarding how to hold Weiner’s seat for the Democrats based on his opinion of the political climate. My opinion is that other Democrats shouldn’t defend him – they should just say it’s between him and the people of his district, and refer to the ethics investigation. What did they say about Charlie Rangel during that entire debacle?
kay
@Three-nineteen:
I don’t think it’s a good situation for Democrats, politically. Again, we don’t think the underlying issue is a big deal, but Anthony Weiner does. He said so.
Now, “professional” would preclude any inquiry into his personal life, but once there is one, he can’t behave like a goddammed unhinged mental case and keep my “defense” of his “right” to the seat.
Gravie
I don’t give a damn if he resigns or not. But I reserve the right to be utterly pissed off and disgusted at his reckless stupidity. For the most trivial of satisfactions, whatever those may have been, he has invalidated his credibility and blunted the effort to expose Clarence Thomas for the shady dealer that he is.
In a better world, the media wouldn’t have leaped all over this story but what kind of fool could look at the political/media landscape over the last 20 years and not understand, to the core of his being, that this is the way it would play out?
kay
@Three-nineteen:
I had the same problem with Bill Clinton, BTW. He can’t go out and tell a big dramatic lie to defend on his personal life and then insist his personal life doesn’t matter.
Those two things are incompatible. Big lie on it BUT, really, it doesn’t matter. It mattered a lot, or he thought it did, which is why he lied about it. People are going to take their cues from his actions.
grandpajohn
@MikeJ: absolutely, if he keeps his nose clean until then go for it and thumb your nose at the pseudo-moralist who in private have most probably done much worse. Tell all the pseudo-Christians to try reading their bible from the new testament, the like the parts where Jesus tells the crowd who would stone the adulturous woman “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, or the part that says,”JUdge not lest ye be judged” or “Judgement is mine sayeth the lord
grandpajohn
@Maddie: By 2012 this media manufactured episode like all the others they cook up will long be forgotten by the public. Ryan’s insanity will still be front and center in the news and under constant attack unless the Democrats totally lose their minds and will. So no, by 2012 whether or not Wiener resigns will not be a factor in the election.
grandpajohn
@sixers: Hmmm one lie makes one a proven liar? how many times has brietbart be caught in lies and lies not to cover himself in a sex scandal, but to deliberately smear and ruin the character of innocent people?
Mike Kay (Team America)
Jane Hamsher went on MSNBC yesterday and called on Weinie to resign.
There you have it. Even the liburel Queen of the Firebaggers says he should go.
What I find telling and sad is how bloggers love Weiner even though he has an atrocious voting record. Even Glenn Greenwald agrees with me, saying, “[Weiner] is one of the most extremist AIPAC loyalists in the Congress, which is not an easy distinction to achieve.”
It’s sad to see that as long as you give a blogger some lip service and a pat on the head, you can get away with any vote (ie Edwards/Weiner).
grandpajohn
@WyldPirate: True, If every politician in Washington that had ever told a lie, were to resign we would have no one to run the government.
marianne
I am a constituent, and I emailed his office in support. Supportive not of what he did (idiotic, but not illegal or corrupt), but of his actions as my representative. He’s a strong, forceful voice, and an in-your-face person. It works for me in Congress. It obviously doesn’t work so well for him in his private life, but that’s for him to sort out.
I think he should stay in office, if his constituents approve. He can run next year, or bow out, or somebody else could oppose him in the primary.
Lying about sex has nothing to do with his professional life. What about the WMDs? People are dead because of those lies. Has anybody been hounded over them? Not that I’ve read.
Fred
@kay: That made no sense but thanks for playing.
Carry on acting like Weiner got caught in a hotel room with a bag of coke and hookers if it makes you feel good.
DPirate
Weiner ought to double-down, go hardcore tweeting, and tell everyone to kiss his ass. That’s what Trafficante would have done!
Admiral_Komack
@Stillwater:
Oh, come now.