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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)
The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.
At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.
The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.
Usually wrong but never in doubt
Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker
Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.
Republicans in disarray!
It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!
How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.
Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.
Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.
Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.
They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.
Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.
Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.
Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.
Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.
If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.
They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”
They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.
DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.
Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!
schrodinger's cat
So in this coming Kingdom of God, lead by Bachmann or Perry what happens to those of us who do not believe in their version or God or worse still are not Christians?
Yutsano
Who better to take out the Islamofascistcryptoneocommunistnigra than a Great White Jeebus Freak? This is making me more grateful for the electoral college by the day.
Samara Morgan
Tomorrow in religious fanaticism.
balconesfault
Who would have thought that the C-Street cabal would be the moderates in the GOP?
Samara Morgan
@schrodinger’s cat: n/e one that professes a belief in “the Christ” is a christian.
low bar for entry was an EGT strategy for increasing reps.
cckids
Yeah, Perry, Bachmann, Palin–people with Dominionism beliefs are big players in the Republican party, and it is quite scary. The belief that they have the “right” to rule the country, and that any means used are justified because they are feeling God’s will requires a suspension of logic & reality that boggles my mind. Scary people.
Teak111
Honestly, GOP, that is not going to play in a national election. Oh, now I get it, this must be eleventhy-level chess played by the mainstream GOP to obscure Romney’s “cultish” religion by distracting us with even scarier religion. Who would have thought Mormons would look tame compared to the NAR.
Zifnab
Bitches be crazy.
Elie
It just stinks of fear and desperation…it has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with their perception of “end times” — but only end times for White People rule… years after the Civil War and after Civil Rights legislation passed, this is the rump, hiding out on their islands, vowing to fight to the last man…like the surviving Confederates founding the KKK….dangerous but without moral or true spiritual power..
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
After having read that article, I realize my mission, as a demon possessed homosexual, is clear. I must grow larger vegetables than they do, so as to make them feel desperate and inferior and thwart their goals.
BGinCHI
Dear God,
More smiting.
Thanks,
People Who Aren’t Trying To Fuck Other People Over
Loneoak
You want me to listen to NPR? What am I, a totebagger!?
MattF
I’ve wondered sometimes why consigning your political adversaries to eternal hellfire isn’t considered… well, impolite, at least. And why pointing this out is considered a violation of some Amendment in that Constitution-thingum.
gnomedad
When I saw the phrase “spiritual warfare”, I imagined something like Scanners, only with Jesus.
General Stuck
Yup, these crazy fuckers are the flip side of AQ, at least in their hard core old testament beliefs, that makes Sharia look like patty cakes. I was reading where high ranking business exec dominionists keep a real sword sheathed in their offices, as a symbol of spiritual warfare, with a real warfare twist, if it comes to that.
The Family is part of, or a leader in this movement, and they aren’t your usual southern Baptist types, and follow something called “Jesus plus nothing” philosophy. That channels all their energy into just a pure kind of Jesus Freak, without the institutional trappings of organized religion. Most of the wingnuts in congress are either members of this group, or loosely affiliated with it. They are all about gaining political power and forcing their religion on the rest of us, and also their corporatist beliefs along with the religious stuff.
The good news is, along with the rise of Dominonism, there is also a backlash going on inside the evangelical movement away from these crazy fuckers and their harsh beliefs and mindset to reign dominion and control over our secular governing institutions. Where more sincere believers are even forming movements in these circles for caring about things like the environment and the poor, just like godless libs do. Lot of interesting shit going on in that world right now. Some of it bad and scary, and some of it modest liberalistic leaning.
JGabriel
They have The Plan and this time they know it’s gonna work.
Because Jesus!
.
Samara Morgan
Note to self:
c-57s unmoved by impending Kralizec.
@MaanNewsAgency
Ma’an News Agency
Gaza projectile lands in Egypt bit.ly/r1h3TN #palestine
4 minutes ago via twitterfeed
schrodinger's cat
The lunatics are running the asylum, this strain of GOP scares me more than one that kowtows to the wealthiest 1%.
Samara Morgan
@cckids: but they have had the electoral right to rule the country up until now.
they are nativists.
like Anders Breivik.
ppcli
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Ok, Ok, I know. Here’s the plan. Find out which of Bachmann’s farms have pigs on it, and hide until the pigs are close to a river. Then jump out and say “look, gay person here!”, and when she casts the demons out of you, they will go into her pigs and they’ll drown themselves in the river. Just like in Matthew 8:28-34. Pretty good plan, eh? That’ll show her.
schrodinger's cat
We need Prophets on our side to counter the Dominion. Do they also have Jem’Hadar soldiers?
Ian
Wait a KENYAN!!!!!!! my mind is blown
Svensker
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yeah, what is up with the large vegetable thing? That really required some sort of explanation.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@ppcli:
Excellent! But we can’t stick to just one plan, we need to have multiple plans. Plus, there is the danger that my demons won’t go into a pig. They are a bit picky. They won’t go into Bachmann, either. It is a bit crowded in there.
Origuy
The news here is that the MSM is starting to report on this.
Citizen Alan
It will be six years next November from when I officially washed my hands of American Christianity after I finally realized and accepted the awful truth: that the majority of American Christians worship Satan and call him Christ. Their entire belief system is based on taking every principle Christ gave about how people should live their lives and inverting it into its opposite. “Blessed are the peacemakers” becomes “spiritual warfare.” “As you have done for the least of these, you did for me” becomes “Jesus would oppose Medicaid because it’s soshulist.” “Do not pray as hypocrites do, on the streets and in the synagogues so that they can be seen by others” becomes “everyone should be forced to listen to a prayer offered over the intercom.” I am amazed at how many people in this nation live in mortal terror of the Antichrist and don’t realize that they follow him right now.
JPL
@Origuy: Who is encouraging the MSM to report on this? That’s the question, I want answered.
gocart mozart
@Samara Morgan:
Don’t you have a lot of wikileaks reading to do? Get to it. Chop Chop.
gex
@schrodinger’s cat: Well, Bachmann’s pal Bradlee Dean alternately endorses capital punishment or life sentences for gays. So I think something along those lines.
Violet
@Origuy:
Must mean that old school IGMFY Republicans are getting scared. If they’re telling the media to shine a light on the crazies in the GOP, they’re scared of them.
Gin & Tonic
@Samara Morgan:
You know, I dislike seeing “u” instead of “you”, but can at least understand it in terms of saving keystrokes, especially on a handheld. But “n/e one” instead of “anyone” saves no keystrokes.
I know, I know.
gex
@Teak111: This HAS been playing out in national politics for quite some time now. “Values” is the code word for Dominionism.
Morbo
Tebow’s jersey is the best selling in NFL history. Damn you, TBogg for making me learn that.
gocart mozart
@schrodinger’s cat:
Will fight them with our Jane Hamsher soldiers.
Violet
@Morbo:
Wouldn’t surprise me if a bunch of churches and Christian organizations bought a bunch of give away at fundraiser and so forth.
Larime the Gimp
One of the reasons I don’t think the fundie base will vote for Romney in the general election is because they’d rather have the bogeyman of Obama for another four years to further ramp up their power in the party than have Romney kill their momentum. Obama is better for their business.
WayneL
I’ve recently been reading “In the Garden of Beasts,” about the Nazi takeover of Germany in 1933-34. Even more scary is how easily it happened. The thinking is not that different in this kind of authoritarianism here. We need to be on guard because their “answers” are bloody and total.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
Apparently you can justify anything in the name of Christ.
BONG HITS FOR JESUS!!!!
Bex
@efgoldman: Absolutely right. This stuff has been going on under the radar for a long time. People need to know about these authoritarian “Christian” movements that are about political power and control. Read Frank Schaeffer (son of Francis Schaeffer, one of the early proponents of this idiocy) on the subject. Frank rejected the movement years ago.
JGabriel
OT, but I just got email from Ben Bernanke:
I mean, I knew Ben was the Fed Chairman, but I had no idea he was in charge of the Electronic Payments Unit too.
Woo hoo! I’m gonna be rich!
.
Mark S.
@Morbo:
Wow, that’s pretty good for a guy battling for the third-string QB position on his team.
Samara Morgan
@efgoldman: no you havent. The GOP is a wholly religious party. Medieval ensoulment is part of the party platform.
The GOP is a religious party.
not all christians are teabaggers, but all teabaggers are christians.
gogol's wife
@Gin & Tonic:
I thought it meant “not everyone.” Proof that it’s not really an efficiency if it’s so easily misunderstood. And why am I reading m-c’s posts anyway?
Ash Can
@efgoldman:
Indeed. I skimmed the linked article, and my reaction was that I saw nothing new in it, but was glad to see NPR covering it in some depth. The more people know that this crazy-ass shit is happening, the better.
@Citizen Alan: I don’t think any of them actually read scripture at all. I think they just listen to what their crooked/insane pastors say, and figure that’s all they need to know.
scav
@Gin & Tonic: yeah, she’s not trying to communicate, she’s just desperately flashing some approximation of the izod alligator or whatever her designated in-hip-crowd is supposedly wearing. When I was approximately her age, I thought that knowing the 10-code made me as cool as Johnny Gage although I was clued in enough at the time to recognize it didn’t make me capable of actually putting out fires and administering CPR.
Dennis SGMM
@WayneL:
“It can’t happen here,” is perhaps the most suicidal phrase in the English language.
rlrr
@schrodinger’s cat:
So in this coming Kingdom of God, lead by Bachmann or Perry what happens to those of us who do not believe in their version or God or worse still are not Christians?
One could look at history to find the answer to that qusetion…
Linda Featheringill
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: #10
Oh, Sister! You’re so cute! :-)
Samara Morgan
@gocart mozart: no need. al jazeerha is on it.
:)
all the major media outlets will be scouring for sensationalism. competiton and market share, right?
im waiting for this.
those i’ll read. i’ll give BJ realtime updates.
BGinCHI
@Dennis SGMM: No, Dennis, it’s this:
“Honey, do these pants make me look fat?”
“Honestly? Yes.”
The Other Chuck
@Dennis SGMM:
After “I stole your Trucknutz”
Samara Morgan
@scav: hehe.
got me.
its just my field lab protocol for stimulus response.
Amir Khalid
@JGabriel:
You will still come out of Nigerian Millionaires’ Row and shower us with your generosity once in a while, right? I mean, it would be a real shame if we never saw you again, after all that we’ve meant to each other.
Dennis SGMM
@BGinCHI: @The Other Chuck:
LOL! There is no good answer for the first and only running for the second.
handsmile
EFGoldman (#21) may have the right idea about exposing this fanaticism, but comments by JPL (#28) and Violet (#31) are discouragingly answered by this link to an Alternet article by Adele Stan:
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152133/rampant_denial_about_the_threat_posed_by_christian_dominionists%2C_perry_and_bachmann/
In summary, last week Lisa Miller, Newsweek’s religion editor, wrote a piece for the Kaplan Test Prep Daily’s website, dismissing alarms about connections between the dominionist movement and the GOP as a left-wing bugaboo.
And sadly no, Origuy (#21), NPR even in its currently neutered state is not a part of the MSM. That’s why the Kulturekampf wing of the Republican Party is so determined to eliminate it.
No member of the corporate print or broadcast media other than Rachel Maddow has sustained a spotlight on this subject. She has reported several times on the relationship between Lou Engle and Uganda’s anti-homosexual activists as well as frequently featuring Jeff Sharlet who has investigated the Christian radical movement for decades.
Edit: Origuy (#26)
jeffreyw
@Gin & Tonic: I love it when someone writes sammich instead of sandwich, because she needs one is why!
Gin & Tonic
@jeffreyw: That reminds me, it’s time for lunch.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
But what we really need with the new batch of Wikileaks is for you to apply your special and unique gift for seeing things. Especially those things that aren’t seen by other people.
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: How is Homer adjusting to the new kitteh?
gene108
Can anyone answer me why Christians are so hung up on the end times?
Hindu’s are technically awaiting the 10th incarnation of Vishnu, the Kalki avatar, to close out the current age, Kali Yuga, and bring in an era of righteousness, but Hindus aren’t spending a lot of energy thinking about what they need to do to bring it about or when it will happen.
Jews await the true Messiah, but aren’t sweating the no-show of the Messiah much these days.
In a nut shell, most major religions have some sort of end of the world scenario, where God returns and ushers in an era of peace and prosperity.
I just don’t get why Christians are so consciously hung up on there’s.
jacy
@scav:
Is it sad that I got that reference instantly without even having to search a mental filing cabinet?
JGabriel
@Amir Khalid:
I will continue to shower everyone here with the generosity of my wisdom. As for the money, all y’all are on yer own! $10.5 Million isn’t very much. Just ask any Republican in Congress, and they’ll tell ya the same! Now that I’m gonna be rich — rich I tell ya! — I better catch up on my Ayn Rand, who suddenly seems to be making a much more sense than I used to think, oh, say an hour ago.
.
kindness
@schrodinger’s cat: It depends…when they dunk you, how long can you hold your breath?
Violet
@gene108:
Don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Christian view of themselves as victims plays into it. In their view, when End Times arrive and they are proven right, that’ll show all those people who laughed at them!
rlrr
Listening to Fresh Air now…
Villago Delenda Est
@gocart mozart:
If you’ll recall, the Prophets put the kibosh on the Dominion by shutting down the wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant. Of course, Section 31 had infected the Founders with the wasting away virus before that happened, which meant that the Dominion was doomed from the outset. It was only the intervention of other solids that prevented the extinction of the Founders.
Amir Khalid
@gene108:
It’s not even all Christians, as far as I know, just a smallish subset. They’re impatient to get to heaven, i guess. I can say that for Jews and Muslims, the END is regarded as known only to God, and all we can do in the meantime is get on with this life. There is no Muslim equivalent of Christian End Times belief that I know of.
scav
@jacy: I’d worry more that it’s present in my mental filing cabinet because I’ve never wandered near being a member of a hip crowd. Sorry to have to increase your level of personal alarm.
ETA: but Ï don’t want to hear a single word against Station 51.
kindness
Where is Maud Dib when you need him?
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: no need. i splain’d it here.
but i will read alla these.
i’d be more than glad to do a FP post on my synopsis, as a PSA.
do you think Cole would go for that?
:)
Dollared
This NPR coverage is great. We know what chickenshits they are, so this must mean that Paul Ryan and Karl Rove both approved this coverage.
.
Hungry Joe
I can’t figure out whether or not I should be especially afraid of these loons. Would they be able to do that much more damage than standard, off-the-shelf, present-day Republicans?
Re “sammich”: And the word “Cripes.” It just kills me. Always has.
schrodinger's cat
@Villago Delenda Est: DS9 FTW!
Star Trek when it was great.
Mark S.
@Violet:
Bingo. See also the appeal of Atlas Shrugged.
Samara Morgan
@Amir Khalid: are you sure you are a muslim?
the salafis are millenialists.
its the general model, but they defer to the first coming of the Madhi, instead of the second coming of Jeebus.
:)
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Make sure, when you win any vegetable growing contests, to announce that you are an atheist. Especially if you win the giant pumpkin contest.
Linda Featheringill
Not most sincere Christians. The spiritual Christians usually spend more time counting their blessings and being grateful for them. They are not godbotherers.
An excessive wish for the End Time is a symptom of a psychological failure to cope with life as it is.
The fact that this is indicative of a psychological defect does not keep these guys from being dangerous, though.
catclub
@BGinCHI: A diplomat is someone who can convince his wife that she would look stout in a fur coat.
Yutsano
@Samara Morgan: Shorter child rant: “YOU CUDLIPS WON’T TALK ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT!!”
Start your own blog. We’re busy here.
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
The early history of the Christians was one of nearly constant oppression, because they had this notion that they were the only way, and if they couldn’t coerce others into seeing that, they were being oppressed.
Come to think of it, that’s their problem now. Not even centuries of total dominance of the culture has changed that.
jeffreyw
@Gin & Tonic:
Here ya go.
Makewi
Red meat for liberals. Soy I guess.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Linda Featheringill: Because it’s a group enhanced defect that makes them dangerous. Used to, one or two of these people would stand on a street corner with a sign.
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodinger’s cat:
Absolutely! TOS and TNG of course had their moments, substantially more than Veejer and WAAAAY more than Enterprise, although Veejer did have the great interplay between Seven of Nine and the Doctor to distract us from Harry Kim and Neelix…
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: did you miss my comment to suzanne?
you are part of a field lab test for sapients.
my null hypoth is that you are the cows you empirically appear to be.
JGabriel
@Hungry Joe:
I’m partial to Crikey! And: fuckwit.
Those two words almost always crack me up.
.
catclub
@Villago Delenda Est: I don’t think that the Roman persecutions of Christians were a figment of imagination. So I think they had a pretty good case THEN that they were oppressed.
Why Christians TODAY, in the US, consider themselves at risk of persecution is still a mystery.
catclub
@jeffreyw: That looks like a LOT of mustard.
Dollared
@Linda Featheringill: Well put. Much of aggressive fundamentalism is simply weakness of character and lack of Christian humility.
jl
There have been plenty of fanatical apocalyptic cults in Judaism and Christianity in the past. Back the day, when they got out of hand or too obviously heretical, they got dealt with and ended. Somebody, Jewish authorities, Romans, Inquisition, Presbyterian Synod, somebody with some power to do that kind of thing, killed them, chased them off, burned their leaders.
Society doesn’t do that anymore (though if the Xtianists take over, who knows what will happen).
Traditional Christianity was not into this. I think one of the reasons the End Timers have to mix and match parts of the New and Old Testament into such a crazy incoherent patchwork, is that if you read most of the source material as whole and in context, it does not say what they think it does.
Revelations is an example. If you read the whole book, which is kind of weird experience, and a commentary, which is mind numbing, but gives you the interpretation in terms of first and second century symbolism and metaphors, it does not say that good Christians are expected to run around trying to gin up the End Times. That is The FSM’s project, which s/he/it will perform when things are ready. The Christian is supposed to cool their heels, avoid getting caught up in the corrupt evil doing and be a good Christian.
But who wants to be humble, sacrifice for others? You end up being a chump. More exciting to be an End Times Superhero and help God out and get that Apocalypse going.
JGabriel
@Linda Featheringill:
Are you sure? I think there must be more to it than that — ‘cuz my symptoms of a psychological failure to yada yada are a messy apartment and spending too much time on the internet.
.
jl
@jeffreyw: Thanks. Looks good. Plenty of mustard: good. I hit my hand on the ‘puter screen though. Can’t reach the dang sandwiches.
JGabriel
@catclub:
Because liberals laugh at them and force their kids to learn Satanic doctrines like natural selection.
.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
Christian Millienalists believe that the End Times are imminent. Muslims don’t worry about the date. (Neither do Jews, as far as I know.) That’s the point I was making.
Samara Morgan
@Mark S.: they are extremely sensitive to being laffed at and not taken seriously.
its called ressentiment.
scav
mmm. guess who’s apparently read a book on experimental design and psych recently.
redshirt
@gene108: As with all things, it’s about Power and Control. By whipping up your followers with Brimstone and End Times, they lose the logical parts of their brain and begin operating on a primal, fear level. There’s other ways to accomplish this (Terror Alerts for example), but Religion has perfected it to an art.
A person operating from fear rather than logic can be convinced to do all kinds of things – like giving up their money. For “God”.
The management problem is – how do you keep the fear going, the pitch at “Fever”.
As said above, in this regard, Obama is great for their business.
rlrr
@jl:
Christianity got its start as a Jewish apocalyptic cult.
Samara Morgan
@Dollared: lack of Christian humility.
LOLOLLLOLOL!
i thot christians were the One True Way.
how is that humble?
you are full of it.
@Amir Khalid: haha, nice try at a save…. but you are still WRONG. Salafis believe the Caliphate and the Madhi are both imminent.
MazeDancer
The Handmaid’s Tale, not just for fiction anymore.
Please, please, please may the inevitable sex scandal strike all these insane people down soon.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: He plays like a kitten in front of her, Mrs J thinks he went gaga over her.
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw:aawww..that’s so sweet. Homer has a crush! We can has pictures plz?
Samara Morgan
@scav: moi?
nah, im using what my nonparametrics professor called the “farmer” method, ie eyeballing the data.
its why the farmers almanac is largely correct on forecasting.
Elizabelle
The founders knew what they were doing in trying to separate Church and State.
A religious party co-opting one of two major political parties — which is the bargain the GOP made with the conservative Moral Majority decades ago — is bringing ugliness, intolerance and dysfunction to our politics.
In their mind, you do not compromise with the devil.
Think back to 2008, when you had these mortally fearful people calling in to C-Span’s Washington Journal morning show. They were appalled that a Democrat might win the presidency. (I did not think it was sheerly terror at a “black Democrat named Obama”, but that I could be wrong.) It was stupidity wrapped in religious fervor.
I thought they were delusional, but they’re representative of a segment of the GOP.
How big, we are going to find out.
jeffreyw
@catclub: What can I say? I make great tasting mustard.
Rihilism
Oh for the love of,…, Jeebus WAS an apocalyptist. The idea that some small faction of wrong-headed, “not really” Christians are twisting his words is absurd, as is the idea that this is some strange modern phenomena that runs counter to “traditional” Christianity…
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
They believe it’s so imminent that they need to help it along, which explains why millenialists are big supporters of Israel…they think that Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy leading directly to the end times.
They’re always looking for signs…odd colored cattle, stuff like that.
The entire millenialist thing is pretty much something that is American in nature, nurtured by the government’s hands-off attitude toward religion in general, thanks to that pesky First Amendment, which is the first thing these people will go after if they get into power…they don’t want competition.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid:
Well the Shi’a await the return of the Twelfth Imam, but there’s no rampant speculation about the actual when. So that may or may not qualify here.
jeffreyw
@jl:
Here, man. These are closer.
Brachiator
Meanwhile, in another corner of the land of American religious purity (and perversity):
Maybe the Republicans can say something about this in their stump speeches as they are cajoling everyone to get right with the Baby Jeebus.
Makewi
No one cares. The people want jobs and some hope that there children will not be saddled with crushing debt. Both the Mormon and the Executioner look like better choices then Mr its-not-my-fault. OTOH, reading through this thread makes me wonder if investing in stock in adult diapers might be a good idea.
jl
@jeffreyw: Thanks for the mustard recipe. I will call it ‘double kick’ mustard.
Sentient Puddle
@gene108:
In addition to what everyone else said about wanting to be proven right and mocking those that they disagree with, a large part of it is that they simply want to cheat death. As it’s stated in the Bible, you have to die to enter the kingdom of God. But death is messy, painful, and you gotta go through the process of freaking the fuck out wondering if you’re wrong and might not actually go to heaven, instead just kind of ceasing to exist. All in all, an unpleasant experience. But if the end times come about while you’re still alive, hey, that’s a shortcut to heaven, and I don’t have to go through all that messy shit!
And no, it’s not theologically sound. But it’s a mindset that survives to this day because nobody likes having to do anything the hard way.
Samara Morgan
@General Stuck:
actuallay not, Stuck.
al-Q wants to repell the foreign invader/crusaders from their homeland, and the teabaggers/republicans/white conservative christians want to expell the minorities/immigrants/young people/non-christians before they get control of their homeland electorate with demographic evolution.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: I’ll see what turns up in the lens. Have you seen this one?
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: I saw U haz coyotes.
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: we were talking about salafis.
jl
@Rihilism: You are twisting history to claim ‘traditional Christianity’ was something that it was not. Who ever said that ‘traditional Christianity’ faithfully taught all of the earthly Jesus’ teachings?
The earthly Jesus did predict a comong apocalypse, and the early church had quite a few problems trying to explain why it was taking so damn long.
And even so, the earthly Jesus teachings about how his followers should view apocalypse, and how they should act while they were waiting, is still inconsistent with those of our contemporary Xtianist End Timers.
jeffreyw
@jl: Just playing it forward, dude. (Or dudette-wtcmb.}
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: I hadn’t seen that one. Cute. Was there much hissing?
I has a capshun:
First we rub noses and then we shake paws.
jeffreyw
@Yutsano: Yes, we haz em. Mrs J saw a fox last night. Rarely, bobcats.
Svensker
@Amir Khalid:
Also true for orthodox (with a small o but includes cap O) Christians. It is the height of hubris not to mention blasphemy to assume you know God’s plan and decide to help it along.
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: Bobcat kittens are really cute. Growed up, not so much. Although I think so. I wouldn’t OWN one, but hey.
Linda Featheringill
@JGabriel: #90
Different neuroses for different folks. We compensate in different ways.
grape_crush
Somewhat related:
The Christian right’s “dominionist” strategy
and
American Politics More Religious Than American Voters
Samara Morgan
@Svensker: i would say its the height of hubris to claim to know Allah’s will at all…like claiming to be the only path.
Linda Featheringill
@Villago Delenda Est: #105
I think the red heifer is a Jewish thing, although it might be shared by others. It is supposed to be a sign that it is time to restore the temple.
Villago Delenda Est
@Svensker:
Which is why this particular phenomenon is so American in nature; we have no state apparatus for stomping out heresy, so it can grow and morph into end times crazy talk.
Paul in KY
@gnomedad: Don’t forget the giant vegetables! That sounds like something out of ‘Sleeper’.
Jay in Oregon
@gene108:
Because in their Tim LaHaye-inspired fantasies, that’s when they all “win” by getting Raptured up to heaven and leaving us heathens to burn.
No, really. Fred Clark’s analysis of the Left Behind books hits this theme over and over again.
When the Rapture occurs, all of the liberals and feminists and gays and Catholics will be proven wrong and suffer for seven years while the Real True Christians go to heaven.
Villago Delenda Est
@Linda Featheringill:
The Jewish “restoration of the temple” trope is one of the overall signs of the millenialists. They sample everything they can get their hands on to support their woeful tales of doom.
I recall some of them worrying about the Mayan calendar thing, but some Christian “scholar” told them not to worry as that numerology couldn’t be taken seriously as it was not “biblically based”.
Peter
@Samara Morgan: Oooh, I’ve got bingo!
gocart mozart
@Brachiator:
What do expect when you appoint a former Van Halen singer to head your university.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah, but this is a feature, not a bug, even though it often results in crazy talk.
And isn’t it ironic that some conservatives yearn for a religious dominated state that has the authority to ferret out the heretical.
Ian
@Villago Delenda Est:
I need to take another bong hit for Jesus after reading that
gocart mozart
@Brachiator:
They are just trying to stop Sharia law.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
Like I said upthread, they don’t want competition. Remember, early Christianity was just another cult until it got state sanction and moved into the mainstream.
Frankensteinbeck
The end times stuff is pervasive in Western culture. Every generation in history had its loud declarants that this was The Big One. You hear echoes in the constant claims EVEN HERE that this is The Fall Of The Republic. There are Jewish sects into this, and the Greeks were into it, and the pre-Christian Vikings. There are strains of Buddhism pushing much the same line. The End is always Near.
Villago Delenda Est
@gocart mozart:
Sammy Hagar’s got a gig as a University President? With his driving record?
Sentient Puddle
@Jay in Oregon: HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Fred Clark finally indexed the entries!
Legalize
@gene108:
Christianists are so hung up on the end times, because the result will be everything they’ve ever wanted in life – they and people like them rise to absolute power, while anyone who expresses insufficient fealty to their cult, i.e. those they fear and hate, burns. They’d do it on earth if they could get away with it. And, of course, they’ve been giving it a good shot for a while. But they’ve not achieved total success. Success is a zero sum.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: Some hissing from Bitsy when Homer tries to play the chase game.
Mr. Long Form
@General Stuck: Yeah, “Jesus Plus Nothing” except: unregulated, polluting, large, soul-killing, corporate, eat-the-poor, no-taxes, homophobic, racist, gun-toting, fuck-you-I-got-mine stuff; so, Jesus plus practically nothing, except some stuff Jesus really really liked. Theologically speaking.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
ALL religions start out as cults and go mainstream.
But going back upstream in the thread:
Well, no, although it may have had a hot refresh in America:
And what was the deal with that Domesday (Dooms Day) Book?
Mr. Long Form
@Citizen Alan: This is so right. I recently listened to the New Testament straight through while I was doing some chores around the house. It was jolting to hear how many times in the gospels Jesus says something about how money and people who gather a lot of money are the problem, and how the poor need lots of help and attention. Never once says anything about all the shit the right wing nuts are always going on about. Chesterton was right: the best argument against Christianity is Christians.
Samara Morgan
@Brachiator: its not a bug of America, its the lack of memetic hygiene in the Bible.
protestant doctrine is that anyone can interpret without training, and there is no guard against memetic mutation like the Quran maintains in the sunnah and hadith, and in the injunction against translation.
marv
Personally, I think the Christians are so obsessed with the End Times now (to the point of trying to invoke them through their own actions, up to and including even the debt-ceiling lemmingness) because they subconsciously sense that if Jesus doesn’t come back pretty soon, nobody’s going to care much any more one way or another. “There comes a redeemer, then he slowly too fades away.”
DFH no.6
@handsmile:
Your take on this is correct.
The MSM is busily burying any concern about Dominionist/Republican connections. How much of that is deliberate obfuscation, and how much incredulity (“they can’t actually be this loony – I just can’t believe it!”) I won’t hazard a guess.
Yesterday, for instance, the AZ Republic prominently displayed a column written by Gerson for the Wash Post on Monday in which any such connection was dismissed.
Gerson specifically equated concerns about Dominionist/Republican connections with the nonsense about Obama’s supposed socialist/anti-colonialist leanings “inherited” from his father. According to Gerson, one is a left-wing conspiracy theory, one right-wing, but both are equally ridiculous. Another of those “both sides do it” arguments that work so well on the low-information crowd.
It’s going to take a lot more than Nice Polite Republicans and Rachel Maddow to penetrate the bovine consciousness of the general American electorate about this very real connection between some Republican leaders and the cult of Dominionism (special note to any asshole rightwing trolls – I said some).
Not betting on that happening.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
OK, I’ll grant you it’s a refresh.
A major one, as this nonsense was pretty much discredited around 1000 AD and for some reason, even the Black Death didn’t cause the Church of the time to, at least at the institutional level, get all endtimey.
Nowadays in this country, that’s the whole point, from the Millerites onward. And the mainstream churches didn’t have the state to help them curb the competition.
geg6
And people wonder why I despise religionists, of any and all denominations. All of them, every single one is nothing but a cult, mostly filled with cringing assholes too afraid to make a move in life without some invisible sky wizard cheering them on and who want some authority to point to in order to justify their worst impulses. I find this cult little different than the Catholic, or Mormon, or Islamic, or Scientology cults. I hope they all kill each other and leave the few sane among us to try to save this poor planet that they all have plundered and raped. Good riddance to them all.
jl
@Brachiator: The Domesday Book was a list of property records in Merrie Olde Engleland, or Scotland, or one of those places.
(Edit: I think ‘doom’ originally meant judgment or decision, so ‘dome’ or ‘doom’ meant records to determine how much the Merrie Olde property tax man would collect.)
But, yeah, the early church had to deal with the fact that their man was taking his time coming back. Eventually, organized Christianity, or at least the recognized authorities gave up trying to figure it out as literal truth.
Villago Delenda Est
@geg6:
Not to worry. FSM will eventually, when she feels like it, get around to some noodly appendage smiting and we’ll have the last laugh.
Samara Morgan
@geg6: are you talking about christian dominionism?
because muslims and buddhists are universalists and believe in the unity of existence. buddhists call it prana i think and we muslims call it wahdat al wujud.
Paul in KY
@Mr. Long Form: That’s why I’ve said before that we (Democrats) need to hit them all the time with Jesus quotes (like the ones you read). All that lovey-dovey stuff. Since Jeeeeezus is saying it, they can’t pooh-pooh it (even though they want to). Drives them up the wall!
Remember, you don’t have to believe it, but they do!
Rihilism
@jl:
The idea that Jesus was an apocalyptist and that Christianity has been consistently focused on the end times and Christ’s second coming is not novel…
The New Testament (let alone the Gnostic Gospels or other similar “heresies”) has been “interpreted” since the beginning. Numerous factions have come to numerous conclusions regarding Jesus’ intent and the “purpose” of his teachings. To claim that one such faction’s interpretation are “inconsistent with those teachings” is amusing in this context given Christianity’s long history of schism and less than generous attitude towards “heretics”.
I make no claims as to what exactly constitutes “traditional” Christianity. In my opinion, the use of the word “traditional” is meaningless given the diversity of Christian beliefs. And while I am no longer a Christian (I am a recovering Catholic and an atheist), it seems to me rather unfair to label one faction as Xtianist (as opposed to Christians), though I’m not entirely certain what your purpose was in doing so…
scav
@Brachiator:
Had to do with the other inevitable: Taxes. Well, that and land title.
Here
Villago Delenda Est
Oh, geeze, our reading comprehension challenged regular is demonstrating her art again.
Citizen Alan
@gene108:
Fred Clark’s theory (at Slacktivist) is simply that they’re afraid of dying. Fundamentalist Christianity is the only religion I’m aware of that posits anything like the Rapture, when all true believers will be swept up into paradise without having to undergo the pain and indignity of dying as everyone else experiences. They are consumed with vanity, with the belief that they are so gosh-darned special that Jesus has to personally come down and rescue them from their mortal shells. Simultaneously, they are utterly terrified that the longer they live, the more opportunities they might have to do something to piss off God enough to lose their state of salvation. Consequently, they desperately wish for the world to end tomorrow in a manner that vindicates all their beliefs and ushers in their personal ascent into heaven while simultaneously condemning everyone who ever crossed them into an eternity of torment.
Jay in Oregon
@Citizen Alan:
It’s the ultimate “I’ve Got Mine, Fuck You”…
DFH no.6
@Makewi:
You mean the jobs that were lost due to the financial collapse engendered by laissez faire capitalism run amok (i.e., conservative economic ideas given free reign), and the “crushing debt” primarily run up by Republican administrations?
Republicans are doing jack-squat about helping to create jobs; rather, those in political power are doing all they can to keep unemployment high with their neo-Hooverite bullshit (in order to achieve their chief current goal – as they promised – that the Kenyan Usurper be a one-termer).
And no one actually cares about the federal debt (which isn’t, in fact, crushing anything), least of all Republicans in power (except as a political cudgel to hammer on society’s collective safety net).
You fucking Republican hypocrites make me puke. Go fuck yourself.
Amir Khalid
@Villago Delenda Est:
did you know that the guitar player from Queen is Chancellor of Liverpool John Moores University? Brian May was appointed to the (ceremonial) post after finally finishing his doctorate in astronomy.
geg6
Matoko, you can make all the excuses you’d like. I know enough about comparative religion to know that you are no better in your blindness to your religion than these sick fuck dominionists or a devout Catholic. Islam has sick fucks in spades, just like Christians, or Jews, or Mormons or anything else. Just as they all have many good and well-intentioned deluded adherents. I hate them all equally. Not all the adherents, but all the religions, equally and with no exceptions.
jl
@Rihilism: By ‘traditional Christianity’ I meant ‘organized Christianity’ such as the Catholic Church, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.
These ‘factions’ were by far the most influential and dominant Christian groups until recently because they had the power (either directly or indirectly) to persecute, imprison and kill people who disagreed with them.
If you can find evidence that any of these organizations taught that humans should try to help God out to get the Second Coming and hasten the Apocalypse, or taught much at all about the details of the Christian End Times after the third or fourth century, please give it.
If you propose an alternative history of Western Civilization, you will have to do more than assert it, by simply claiming that groups who historically had very different degrees of influence and earthly power were on an equal footing in terms of influencing ideas about how the world ended.
Yes, Christianity has had to grapple with the little problem that the Second Coming seemed to be delayed. It also had to grapple with weird old texts that told how Jesus, as a child, killed people with nasty stares who bothered him while he was playing. That does not mean that there was no common agreement about what Jesus’ earthly teachings were.
Edit: BTW, I do not believe in the stuff, so my only purpose was to explain that the Dominionist, Xtianist, whatever you want to call them, ideas about Christian eschatology are not part of the most influential tradition. If you think it is meaningless to talk about a most influential tradition simply because there have long been texts and groups that taught all sorts of weird things, that is fine with me.
Rihilism
@Citizen Alan: While belief in the Rapture may be a unique coping mechanism, some have posited that belief in an afterlife (with or without being hauled bodily into heaven) began as a way for humans to cope with the fear of death…
Samara Morgan
@geg6: well…what i object to is saying all religions are the same. they aren’t.
the spectrum of biological diversity ensures that there are bad people in all religions, sure, but christian dominionism and exclusivity and triumphalism don’t exist in all religions like you imply.
For example this thread is about xian exclusivity and dominionism in american politics.
and i was a devout catholic. :)
BobS
I don’t think that Perry being featured at an event along with someone who thinks Oprah Winfrey is the precursor to the anti-Christ will play well with the swing voters.
Tehanu
@Jay in Oregon: @Jay in Oregon:
The “Left Behind” takedown that Fred Clark has been doing at Slacktivist, first at his old site (now called the Slacktiverse) and now at patheos, is just incredibly brilliant. I’m sort of a wishy-washy believer one day and nonbeliever the next, myself, but there are all shades of belief and nonbelief in the terrific community of commenters Fred has gathered. And when he’s not writing about LB, he’s one of the most humane and generous liberal bloggers on the intertoobz, and living proof that you don’t have to be a fascist asshole to be an evangelical Christian (or in other words, that some Christians actually do try to live up to their beliefs). So if you haven’t read him, you’re really missing something great.
PurpleGirl
@jl: It’s the record of a property survey (both land and livestock) taken in England and parts of Wales in 1086 on the order of William I (William the Conqueror). It’s goal was to asses taxes owed to the crown.
Matt
Am I the only one that reads what these people are yammering about and thinks “serious mental illness”? If you’d walked into a police station thirty years ago and announced that you were going to “conduct spiritual warfare to remove demons from the population”, you’d be looking at involuntary commitment for a while…
PurpleGirl
@Tehanu: I’ve been reading Fred Clark for several years and find him very thought provoking.
lou
@Citizen Alan: Wish there was a like button on BJ because I would give you a +1,000. I wouldn’t say American Christianity, but American Evangelism.
Rihilism
@jl:
Well, I guess we’ll need to explain to Jesus when he comes back, “Ixnay on the apocalypticnay”.
Are seriously claiming that eschatology and the idea that Christians should do all they can do to “hasten” the second coming of Christ (say, by converting unbelievers) hasn’t been a part of Christian tradition or as you call it “organized” Christianity? Seriously?
Jay in Oregon
@Tehanu:
I’ve been following him for a while, too. I started because of the deconstruction of Left Behind and stayed for everything else.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Absolutely. Promptly after winning giant veggie competitions, I will put up a large rainbow colored sign that says, ‘Godless socialist veggies! We grow them bigger than government!’
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Absolutely. Promptly after winning giant veggie competitions, I will put up a large rainbow colored sign that says, ‘Godless soci@list veggies! We grow them bigger than government!’
TenguPhule
We just need the Harpy Queen for Tic Tac Toe.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@gocart mozart:
The problem with the Jane Hamsher soldiers is they are just as likely to shoot me or you, as they are the enemy.
Brachiator
@scav:
Yeah. And it was largely the Normans taking a formal survey of their loot after the Conquest. I knew this, but was taking some shortcuts. There was some tacking on of religious intent, but my major point was that looking for the return of Jeebus is not just a modern thing.
@Samara Morgan:
An injunction against translation does not remove the burden of interpretation.
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s popped up from time to time since 10000 AD, but I understand what you mean here.
I’m not quite sure if you are being ironic here, or if you believe that there might have been some value in the ability of “mainstream” churches to punish heresy, with the state’s approval.
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan:
And yet the Protestant denominations require formal education, at least a M.Div. and often a D.Div., before someone can be ordained a minister. You really need to get out more.
non-member
Psssst- you want to know what living in a theocracy is like? It’s when: every judge, all law enforcement, every lawyer, the postmaster, every bank, every school district, every CPA, and all others privy to either all your private info or the tax paid public employees you turn to for help are ALL OF THE SAME CHURCH. A church where blood oaths of allegiance and secrecy to each other were standard temple fare until 20 years ago.
Where if you tell your CPA you ‘tithe to the church’ they note ‘lds’ on your taxes. Where tax paid public employees scold one another in the high school admin office during working hours if ‘they’ve missed church’. Where all counseling services are ‘federally, state, county AND CHURCH funded’.
Where if you are not a member (or even if you are) if they want your property or want to ruin your business-good luck in finding any ‘lawyer in the small BAR association that will sue another lawyer’ regardless of blatant corruption.
There’s this thing called the “Mormon Corridor”-it’s a pretty big area of this country. There are plenty of places right now where ‘the only separation between church and state is the sidewalk between the public high school and the ‘Church’s’ Seminary’.
Know that all our tax dollars are being used to enable a very abusive-very illegal theocratic situation in this country. “What? Your town’s post office didn’t fly the flag at half mast when the Prophet died?” “What? you aren’t advised to ‘draw a little beehive’ on your federal job applications?”
With two of ‘the church’s’ members running for President this cycle time for the rest of the country to know what is going on out West-especially if you’re thinking of bailing out of your home state to move into ‘the corridor’.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: SOME protestant denominations.
for example, snakehandlers do not.
:)
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan: Are you trying to make snakehandlers emblematic of all Protestants? If not, then try to be careful with your statements.
Samara Morgan
@Brachiator: ahh, but only trained islamic scholars are allowed to interpret.
the concept is called mutawatir.
you can think of memorizing the Noble Quran as a sort of passing the SATs to begin a study of islamic jurisprudence.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: lol nope. but snakehandlers take their interpretation of christianity from a single phrase in the Bible.
that is what i mean about memetic hygiene.
the Bible/New Testament are subject to memetic mutation, like infusing randian philosophy to form the “Prosperity Gospel”.
Odie Hugh Manatee
One thing that I find interesting is that mainstream Christians get angry when people associate them with the crazier elements in their movement. They are upset when non-Christians get sick and tired of the apocalyptic death-culters and say so, feeling that the non-believers are unfairly associating them with the crazies.
I find it interesting because many of these same ‘good’ Christians do the exact same thing to Muslims, they lump them all together as one evil group of non-believers (in Christianity) who are out to destroy Christians and impose their religious beliefs on everyone (or else!). The ‘bad’ Christians are even more uniform in their belief that all Muslims are evil. Loud-mouthed Christians who hate on Islam like to say that if good Islamic people don’t want to be associated with the crazies among them then they need to repudiate and fight to stop ‘their’ crazies. This sounds very reasonable to Reasonable Christians, right?
Maybe ‘good’ Christians could learn something from the demands that the crazies are making on good Islamic people and ‘do something’ to stop their own crazies. Maybe then the non-believers will stop associating you with them. As I say, if the foo shits, wear it.
Christianity is covered in foo.
TangledThread
Normally I stay in the back and listen, but I wanted to put this out:
For those wanting more information or other perspectives, Jason Pizl-Waters has been covering Dominionism and its influence in American politics at The Wild Hunt , a blog which follows news of interest to pagans and other earth-based religions.
Evangelical Christianity, which already believes that the environmentalist movement is a smokescreen for pagan beliefs (aka The Green Dragon), has made it clear it would like nothing more than to yank constitutional protections for earth religions. Dominionism buffs that poisoned apple to a high shine.
Samara Morgan
@TangledThread: fix link plz?
the Wild Hunt is a great name.
i cant wait to read it.
brettvk
@Samara Morgan:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/