We just killed another terrorist you and I have never heard of, and presumably this time we win:
A drone operated by the Central Intelligence Agency killed Al Qaeda’s second-ranking figure in the mountains of Pakistan on Monday, American and Pakistani officials said Saturday, further damaging a terrorism network that appears significantly weakened since the death of Osama bin Laden in May.
An American official said that the drone strike killed Atiyah Abd al-Rahman, a Libyan who in the last year had taken over as Al Qaeda’s top operational planner. Mr. Rahman was in frequent contact with Bin Laden in the months before the terrorist leader was killed on May 2 by a Navy Seals team, intelligence officials have said.
American officials described Mr. Rahman’s death as particularly significant as compared with other high-ranking Qaeda operatives who have been killed, because he was one of a new generation of leaders that the network hoped would assume greater control after Bin Laden’s death.
Thousands of electronic files recovered at Bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, revealed that Bin Laden communicated frequently with Mr. Rahman. They also showed that Bin Laden relied on Mr. Rahman to get messages to other Qaeda leaders and to ensure that Bin Laden’s recorded communications were broadcast widely.
After Bin Laden was killed, Mr. Rahman became Al Qaeda’s No. 2 leader under Ayman al-Zawahri, who succeeded Bin Laden.
Is it just me, or does Al Qaeda go through No. 2’s quicker than Dr. Evil? But don’t worry, we’re not going anywhere, and in a few months we will have another joyous announcement after we kill the new No. 2.
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man!
Does this mean that everyone can come home now?
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
Apparently Al Qaeda’s is like modern American corporations, a thousand vice presidents standing around waiting for something useful to do. So far it seems like we have killed at least 500 “#2s” so we are half way through the list.
OTOH, if AQ really is like a modern American corp, killing all the VPs might actually free up the mental constipation and make the organization function better. This constant killing of the number 2 guy might be making them stronger!!!
In other news, Spinal Tap is hiring a new drummer.
Damn, beat me to it.
Wait… who is number 1 now?
It’s actually a real solution to the ‘rise to your level of incompetence’ problem– when someone ascends to middle-management, shoot them. Hmm.
c u n d gulag
How long after we finish off al Qaeda’s leadership can we start on the people who are the real problems for America – our Galtian/Corporate leaders?
Let’s get some playing cards made with their faces on them.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Oh, if only they would wait in an American corporation. More often they create something to do.
If Al Qaeda were like an American corporation they’d be wasting their entire bank on making PowerPoint presentations and hiring terrorism consultants.
By hook or by crook, we will.
Actually, it’s only now that they’re going through #2’s. Before we got Osama, we were always killing their #3. I think the main thing going on is that we didn’t have a detailed al Qaeda organizational chart beyond bin Laden and Zawahiri, so any time we got somebody who was an obvious big shot, we’d call him #3. Now that bin Laden is gone, any obvious big shot is called #2.
There is only number one, and he now sleeps with the fishes. The rest of these clowns are clowns, and not worth the risk of killing innocents. AQ went under with Osama. I doubt they could organize a firecracker attack on New Years Eve, anymore.
It is possible they may come up with another Bin Laden, but the chances are slim. Keep an eye on them, but park the drones from creating even more terrorists every time we fuck up and kill a wedding party, or people out politicking for the elections we set up.
He was actually mentioned a lot in Bin Laden stories as one of the guys he was talking to most often. It wasn’t a totally random name.
I like these stories because they provide cover for getting our asses out of Afghanistan, which we have started to do. So keep killing numbers 1-6 for the next couple of years and I’ll be fine with it.
I thought it was number 3s we were targeting.
Perhaps this is the real measure of the progression of the GWOT.
Of course, when we got OBL, everyone moved up a notch, so perhaps 2 is the new 3.
Fixed to be WAAAAAAY funnier.
Got a FF draft in 15 mins….Peterson or Foster as first off the board?
Our options seem to be either just leave & let Al Qaeda rebuild or use our Army & Marines in combat.
I’ll take this current very successful but unpopular campaign that we are engaged in in AfPak, thank you.
Who does Number Two work for?
Someone had to.
Abdelhakim Behadj a.k.a. Abu Abdullah Assadaq is the commander of Tripoli Military Council. It appears that this person is none other than a high ranking Al Qaeda operative…Is NATO — a.k.a. the war council of President Obama — once again in the tender embrace of Al Qaeda?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Eh, John, I think you presume too much. I like the fact that they announced that it was based on the information they gathered at bin Laden’s place. Now everyone who might have been written down by OBL will have to worry about sticking his head up.
With the plethora of drone missiles about it would be best to keep clear of any foam finger “We’re #1” fans at sporting events.
This is where I see Obama, in fact, doing a good job but with a qualifier.
The type of info that likely allowed them to get the newest number 2 guy was the result of intensive and effective intelligence operations. This is a good thing and in my mind is what should have been going on since way back in the Bush days after the Taliban rule was toppled. But no, Bush had to go all in on Iraq and blow the chance to try to stabilize Afhanistan somewhat after the head of the snake that harbored AQ was cut off.
Obama, to an extent, has done the opposite. Doubled down with a huge increase in troops in Afghanistan–at the insistence of the military–after the Bush regime blew the chance to get some sort of political stability established in Afghanistan early on.
Eight to nine years after–once a new layer of corruption was firmly entrenched in Afghanistan–the chance to give the Afgahnistanis a “fresh start” with a more functional government is well past being feasible. The new bosses are likely just as corrupt as the old bosses if somewhat less blood thirsty.
Instead, Obama puts in the huge troop concentration and wastes more money and worse, far more lives of American military personnel in an effort that won’t really make Afghanistan any better place for the people to live. I don’t think that is necessarily a job for our military. Their job–and what they are extremely skilled at–is closing with and destroying the enemy.
I’m all for Obama leaving a basic military infrastructure in place to gather and mine intelligence in Afghanistan that is dedicated to keeping AQ tamped down. I’m for us supporting UN humanitarian efforts. I don’t, however, think that requires the huge number of troops that are there now and have been there for some time. I think it has been a monumental waste. that said, I think Obama was sort of forced into it in a way by fear of the political heat he would take for “not listening to his Generals”. I think he should have listened to Biden and his former NSA chief who resigned who were not for the surge.
It’s in the rules; you have to kill ten No. 2’s, or twenty No. 3’s, in order to get to the Boss level for a shot at No. 1.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@WyldPirate: I haven’t heard much about Obama talking about “rebuilding” Afghanistan, but with the way our media works, he could have been shouting it nude from the White House and they would have ignored him, so I don’t know if that means he hasn’t. But it does seem that he’s more concerned with weakening al Qaeda until it is non-functional. He’s even more concerned about that than our relations with Pakistan.
We abandoned that “job” a long time ago. Our military is a means to keep the MIC spinning indefinitely. Why do we have bases in Germany? The Philippines? etc.
The average lifespan of Al Qaeda leadership seems to have gotten significantly shorter since that incompetent left office and this president ramped up the focus on the organization that actually attacked us rather than forcing regime change in an unrelated country (an effort which only helped Al Qaeda recruiting). Every time a member of the organization’s leadership is eliminated, someone less qualified has to fill the vacuum. It actually does matter. Or it would matter if our stated goal was to weaken or destroy Al Qaeda. Instead we have failed to redefine the objective since that nitwit Boosh left office. We remain at war with a tactic rather than an entity. This foolishness can never come to a victorious end if we don’t define the goal with some greater specificity and an actual entity as the opposition. We all know that presidents are loath to end a conflict without being able to declare victory…
As above: during the Bush years it was always #3’s! This is like the second or maybe third #2. After we’ve gone through enough of them, we can start knocking off the new #1’s and then we can go home.
[‘Movin’ on up…. to the sky….’]
@MattF: So you die…and we all move up in rank.
Hey Cole, given your occasional bouts of healthy skepticism toward the Pentagon’s operations and propaganda, why is it, really, that you and folks like Stuck so readily pretend to buy fabulous yarns like the official, rather colorful and ever changing, story of OBL’s alleged death and burial?
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: And 9/11 was an inside job, amirite?
A bit O/T, but I’m interested that the NYT style book requires “Mr. Rahman” on second and subsequent references, but uses “Bin Laden” throughout.
Meet the new boss/same as the old boss…
@arguingwithsignposts: Why do we have the overseas bases? Three reasons: 1) US forces and capabilities are central to the functioning of our alliances. We need to have the troops and equipment in place to train and work with the allied forces with whom they operate. 2) US presence on the ground is a tangible sign of US commitment to the alliances. IIRC Europeans raised concerns a number of years ago when there was talk of significantly reducing US troop commitments. 3) Europe and the Philippines are excellent staging areas for moving forces to and from other areas of interest. If we decrease our involvement in the ME (something that would require decreasing our dependence on oil), European bases would become less important.
@Omnes Omnibus: I tend to think the main reason we have those bases is because it gooses the local economy. ymmv.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@cleek: The New Number 2? Yep, as soon as I read that phrase I saw Patrick McGoohan too.
March on for Dear Leader, comrade. Nothing to see here.
We are in agreement on this mostly. Eisenhower warned us about the danger of the MIC sucking away $$ for guns instead of butter” in his “farewell speech” of Jan. 1961:
Personally, I think that this speech by Eisenhower is one of the most prescient given by any American President. Sadly, we have done many things as a nation that he warned against.
That said, I can see the necessity for maintaining a large naval presence in the Phillipines. Europe, OTOH, is another matter. The threat from the former SU is long since past and the time has also long since passed that we decrease much of our military presence throughout Europe and many other places.
Villago Delenda Est
Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
Or The Brain. Take your pick.
Perhaps this is theater to impress the reichtards, who can’t count any higher.
@WyldPirate: MLK, Jr. – Beyond Vietnam:
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: Get back to us when you vote, trollenhosenschlong.
Oh, golly, gosh…no. Heavens, you and I both know the U.S. government would never lie to us about things like that.
But just to be safe, comrade, it’s best you don’t say such things at all…even in jest! Golly…
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): the mini-surge was the same as the surge, designed by Petraeus and Co. as cover to GTFO.
The mini-surge failed and that is why McC fired himself.
Now Very Bad Things are going to happen in both Iraq and A-stan.
like we have a choice.
if we dont get out of Iraq in compliance with the SOFA Muqtada is going to resurrect the Mahdi Army and kill the 10k-or-watever troops the US wants to leave behind. And not just kill them, mutilate their bodies and drag them through the streets of Bagdhad.
And if we dont GTFO A-stan before the Arab Spring rolls into Islamabad, we will be leaving from Kabul rooftops in Operation Frequent Wind Redux.
..and in an American corporation, the VPs would be firing all the people who do the work and replacing them with their cronies..
@Samara Morgan: Oh, look. It’s the little dead girl to sk00l us on affairs in the middle east! WAI MENA assange cudlip!
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: oh, OBL is daid.
But its also true that Pasha and Zardari sold Panetta OBL’s geo-loc to get the US to stop destabilizing Zardari’s government with rogue CIA agents and droning women and children in the Pak tribal areas.
“Mr. Rahman” is actually wrong; the name is incomplete. The complete name is Abd al-Rahman, “servant of the benevolent One”(i.e. of God). Atiyah Abd- Al-Rahman should be Mr. Abd- al-Rahman in subsequent mentions. Likewise, Osama bin Laden should be Mr. Bin Laden in subsequent mentions. Only I can imagine the New York Times catching a boatload of grief from its readers, for showing too much respect to the father of all terrorists.
NYT can also be inconsistent with Britons who have knighthoods. In a story on the phone hacking scandal, the Scotland Yard chief who quit was Sir Paul Stephenson on first mention, and Sir Paul after that. But hacking victim Sir Paul McCartney was only McCartney in subsequent mentions.
and this why Obama says we are GTFO in December, while at the same time sending his cur Panetta to Maliki to try to get to keep some troop presence.
US Terrified of Iraq Troop Withdrawal
think about what a regional war between Saud and Iran will do to oil prices.
Villago Delenda Est
Yeah, but in that case, the central figure in the story was Sir Paul Stephenson, not Sir Paul McCartney. I’m sure that if the phone hacking victim were Sir Mick Jagger, they would have referred to him in the rest of the story as “Sir Mick” if necessary, seeing as there would be no “which Sir Paul are you wankers talking about?” confusion between Sir Paul and Sir Paul.
Or so I’d like to believe if the NYT was not so obviously modeled on Pravda nowadays…
Big claims require big proof. Whaddaya got?
@arguingwithsignposts: i know waaaay more about MENA than you sorry american exceptionalists.
being american means never having to say you are sorry, right, AWS?
we are pretty screwed in Iraq.
if we dont leave, Muqtada is going kill all those american soldiers that stay.
if we do leave KSA is gunna freak.
The Saud Monarchy has a big reason to fear the Arab Spring and a New Virtual Shi’ia Capliphate– their population is majority shi’ia.
Now we’re getting down to the core of your rhetorical…stockpile.
Eisenhower and King were both right, arguingwithposts.
Sadly, the people with lots of money to make and influence to wieled have won the propaganda battle over the last 50 years since both of these leadders warned us of the looming consequences of an overly-influential MIC and the parasites that profit from it both in government and industry.
Their influence and propaganda–aided by the constant conjuring of new bogeymen–have sucked away trillions of dollars that would have been better spent making the US a much better nation that could has done a disservice to many of the less fortunate in our country.
Whether the bogeyman has been Commuinism, the “war on Drugs”, terrorists or whatever new one comes down the pike, the maggots that profit from the over-militirazation of our society have found ways to exploit the fears of Americans to the overall detriment of its people.
Even as much as we may differ in outlook, there are some things we agree on.
Hmmm…what? Whatever are you referring to? Oh heavens, gosh and golly, I support the president and the U.S. government’s current official story…about whatever the matter is.
I love my country, just like Michelle and Marcus and you!
I think droning is 21st century napalm.
I think Dr. King would condemn it, and condemn OIF and OEF as isomorphs of Viet Nam.
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: Khalid is a malay and a malaysian citizen.
@Villago Delenda Est:
The consideration here is equal treatment for both men, rather than keeping the title for the one more prominent in the story — which is not how it’s supposed to work. I’d have gone with Sir Paul Stephenson and Sir Paul McCartney respectively in subsequent mentions, or for brevity Stephenson and McCartney.
Stop fucking assuming shit, dead girl. I’m part native american, so you can take your american exceptionalism and stick it up your ass. BTW, what’s your genealogy. Not your relativist sufiism, but your background?
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: You have no rhetorical stockpile, idiot. You just sling shit like a monkey in a zoo. Get back to me when you vote, Tim.
(btw, and off topic, I actually enjoy your artwork)
@Samara Morgan: I think we might agree on something.
As you well know, I’m referring to your big claim that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job. I ask again, what’s your big proof?
christ, you cynical fucks have crossed the line into ostentatious hipsterism on this one.
can’t you just enjoy our overwhelming victory against al qaeda? sure, there weren’t actually that dangerous a national security threat after they expended their operational capabilities and exposed their overseas network after 9/11, and sure it took years longer than it should have been the bush administration couldn’t give a fuck to do a job that would have given them good pr to aid their stupid war in iraq (the two were complements you fuckers! why would you abandon one for the other?! gah.), but hey, we’re winning.
winning is good. al qaeda has been utterly vanquished in the hindu kush.
That’s where Bill Clinton was running the cocaine that Hilary killed Vince Foster to cover up.
Probably not. They’re in everyone’s nightmares now. The thing under the bed that wakes us up in a cold sweat. No matter how many #1s, #2s and #3s we kill, the fear of that devastating surprise attack will remain.
@Samara Morgan: Leaving Iraq will not end our involvement in the ME. As long as the US needs oil, the US will stay engaged in the region. I know, I know, Arab Spring, KSA, Oil=$200/bbl, etc.. Nevertheless, The US needs oil and will stay involved in areas where its vital interests are implicated. BTW this has nothing to do with American Exceptionalism, the Bush Doctrine, exporting democracy, or any of your other hobby horses; it is simply old fashioned, interest-based Realism. All countries do it.
i totally agree! because that is what Obama just did in Libya.
But we are going to have to LEAVE Iraq and A-stan, and wait to be asked back.
Shlemizel - was Alwhite
Great point! We actually would be better off if they were more like our VPs.
@arguingwithsignposts: Wait, that’s Timmeh? Why, time to add another line to his paragraph in the pie filter, by gum.
@aisce: “security” has cost American taxpayers 11 trillion since 2001.
and we arent more secure.
islamic terrorism is a REACTION to western interventionism.
the more we intervene, the more terrorists we create.
Consider Iraq. How many of those 5 million iraqi orphans are going to grow up hating America?
Is the uniform for AQ #2 a red shirt?
@Samara Morgan: No more or less had we not invaded. Iraqi’s are very secular, pragmatic people.
@arguingwithsignposts: lol im part cherokee. And french, german and mostly irish. four gen out of county cork.
a true mongrel.
@Samara Morgan: blackfoot here. and french, black dutch, scotch irish, etc. mongrel too.
What the fuck John?
This dead dudes name is well known to people who pay attention. Are you trolling the blog or have your recent and frequent drinking done some real damage?
and 2.5 million of them just signed Muqtadas petition to kick the americans out.
And the Iraqi List (one of the two major parties) wants America to pay reparations.
heres the cost of war .
11 trillion includes homeland security, and other costs in our war on Islam and paranoid witchhunt for iterated instantiations of al-Q numbers, 2, 3, 1 etc.
Do you honestly believe this? Muqtada will ritually humiliate and kill US troops en masse?
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I agree it’s a great mindfuck to stage it this way. But it’s much more likely our friend in Pakistan who gave up OBL is continuing to eliminate nuisances, and this #2 happened to be one of them.
@Corner Stone: yeah, that sounds kinda far fetched.
@Samara Morgan: Hybrid vigor reminds me of this.
@Corner Stone: He says he will. He says he will kill every american soldier that stays. His followers will do the rest.
Perhaps the Madhi Army will take captives for ransom. i dunno, but Muqtada says all American troops will die. He has been saying this since he came from Iran in January.
Muqtada plans on being the next Grand Ayatollah.
Sistani is 86.
@Samara Morgan: That’s not hating America and becoming terrorists. That sounds to me like they are using their political system to seek legal settlement. Good for them.
And Muqta? Really? The majority of the country thinks he’s a joke. He’s got no less then 5 “active” organizations as it is, each one more pure than the other, supposedly. And JAM is still around; nothing to “resurrect”.
Have we completely given up on finding Mullah Omar?
@Keith G: his name doesn’t matter. its just snake-chopping. you know, cut off the head of the snake? but another snake will just take his place.
the snakes are innumerable and interchangeable.
i think it’s absolutely adorable how matoko’s understanding of arab-western relations goes no further than the crusades. like widdle muqtada is the second fucking coming of saladin. how’d that go for him in basra?
though even i have to admit it’s quite disturbing how she appears to be creaming her hannah montana underoos at the thought of american soldiers’ corpses being dragged through the streets of baghdad. time for another banning?
@Corner Stone: Yes, I think she does.
Muqta isn’t even taken seriously by the Iranians. He’s a tool in ever sens of the word. He says a lot of things.
@c u n d gulag:
Shouldn’t be too hard. Just have a photographer stand outside the WH and take some snaps as they go in.
@Cassidy: everthing you just said is false.
why do that?
whistling past the graveyard?
Muqtada has a lot of power, he got Maliki elected by throwing the Sadrist Trend behind him.
2.5 million Iraqis just signed his petition. That is like 35 million americans signing a petition.
Muqtada is planning on becoming the next Grand Ayatollah. Sistani was trained Iran, and Muqtada just came back from 3 years in Qom studying.
He froze the Madhi Army when he went to Iran. it was 60000 strong at the time.
And he has plenty of followers.
OBL hadn’t been operationally significant to AQ in years. His assets were all frozen, he couldn’t fund an operation and he was essentially under house arrest in Pakistan.
AQ may or may not be able to mount a large scale attack, and they do not need to in any event, but it has nothing to do with OBL being alive or dead.
The population of Saudi Arabia is majority Shi’a? News to me. Perhaps you mean Bahrain?
KSA will adjust to USA leaving Iraq. The Saudis and Iranians do not want a war. Domestic issues are more pressing in both countries.
@aisce: hes not the second coming of Saladin. Hes going to be the new Grand Ayatollah of all the Shi’ia.
And he passionately hates the US.
How are Moqtada’s armed legions going to help him achieve that? Will their bullets blaze him a path to scholarly eminence and seniority in a clerical hierarchy? The 10,000 GIs to remain in Iraq aren’t an obstacle to that goal. Shooting them won’t bring him a millimeter closer to the Grand Ayatollah’s chair.
Little late but there’s no doubt it’s All Day Peterson. The Vikings are going to suuuuUUuuuckkkkk this year. But one thing they will do is run the ball.
Nothing’s ever easy when you’re picking friends and allies in MENA.
@Samara Morgan: You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Iraqis look at him almost like we do the Kardashians: idiots who are only in the spotlight due to their father’s.
@Cassidy: I am not sure the m_c is fully aware of the sheer lethality of a modern military unit. 10,000 troops in defensive positions would wreak havoc on partially trained attackers. That being said, I am in favor of us getting out of Iraq on, or as close as possible to the, schedule.
it doesnt sound like it.
they are going to raise an army.
the Shi’ia were absorbed into the sunni population of KSA by force.
i think KSA is listed as entirely sunni.
but there are plenty of Sunni AND Shi’ia that will revolt against the monarchy when the Arab Spring rolls into town.
@Samara Morgan: That is a very ignorant remark, even for you. He is nothing more than a tool. He’s the only one who doesn’t know it…and you apparently.
@Omnes Omnibus: 60000> 10000.
2.5 million >> 10000.
that would be great PR for the US right? a shooting war on the streets of baghdad? protestors burning american flags on the street? the embassy underseige?
and make a lot more parts for the jihaadi factory.
the old paradigm of Pax Americana is FAIL. we need to go.
And a little thing called CAS.
For an Iraqi who wanted us to leave, the absolute last viable route would be full scale engagement. It would be an open invitation to pour 100K more troops back in asap.
@Samara Morgan: 10,000 experienced, modern troops in hardened defensive positions? Bloodbath for anyone who attacks them. If you had continued reading my comment, you would have seen that I am in favor of getting the fuck out of Iraq. Hey, guess what, I was never in favor of going in.
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, you’re spot on. We are most vulnerable on patrols and in convoys. There’s been less and less of that in Iraq since we began the draw down and handed over much of the security responsibility to the Iraqis.
Sadr isn’t as much of a threat to us with our current role in Iraq as he is a pain the ass for Maliki politically.
you are the tool.
@Samara Morgan: Where do you think those 60K would hide while attacking? We have force multipliers on station that would whittle the 60K down in a nasty manner.
Not saying we would get the better end of the PR war in that outcome, but I am pretty damn certain Obama isn’t going to lose 10K troops either.
Not really, Evidence seized in the raid put rest the rumor of OBL’s non participation in AQ. He was very involved in planning new attacks and the day to day operations of AQ. Some day you will be right about something, CS, not today though.
AQ was the persona of Osama bin Laden, it is not completely dissolved, nor does it mean the end of militant Islam, but that particular manifestation that was AQ, is dead and died with OBL. Especially in Pak, where we continue to launch drone missiles.
That is a mighty blow to AQ’s morale and persistence as an international terrorist threat.
Not that you EVER did, but you certainly have no credibility left on anything to do with military conflict and the war on terror Kristol v2 Cole!
Perhaps you should spend more time whining about things you know more about. Like bugs in your garden or maybe your dog peeing on your carpet.
@General Stuck: Sigh. He had a My Little Pony diary where he wrote out crazy schemes and ideas he fervently hoped his followers would accomplish.
He was nothing anymore, just a boogeyman for the West.
@Corner Stone: do you think we have the $$ for that? or the credibility?
Iraqis killing American troops is going to be very, very bad PR. And American troops killing Iraqis trying to expell them is going to be very, very bad PR.
muqtada might be able to topple Malikis government and call in Iran. that would be super, right?
@Omnes Omnibus: it doesnt matter what you think. its logistics. if you think Americas global image can withstand Al-jazeerha and social media real time broadcasting of street fights, fog of war atrocities, american soldiers firing on demonstrators and protestors, i think you are nutz.
Hey, when did BJ become an all you can eat Troll Buffet?
Seriously, stop putting out the kibble and they’ll go bother someone else.
I don’t think it really matters from a practical standpoint. We seem to have been getting some really good intel recently, and that ought to have the higher-ups in AQ running scared no matter where it’s coming from.
@Corner Stone: It also provides the perfect cover for possible new “friends” in the future. Any way you look at it, it seems smart to me.
@Corner Stone: my prediction?
we leave on the terms of the SOFA.
do you think Iran is going to stand by while US troops “whittle down” shiites?
i dont think we have a choice, unless its the 1979 Islamic revolution redux, with Maliki playing the part of the shah.
@Corner Stone: LOL
OBL got in a lucky junk punch to America’s economic nads.
He destroyed Pax Americana, american power, and brought America’s economic house of cards tumbling down.
He transformed the global war on terror into America’s personal war on Islam.
and we have already lost.
You mean a boogyman for Obama, don’t you? That is all you really care about, ain’t it?
OBL files from compound
Only people who are in thrall to Dear Leader care about things like proof.
so what do you think Muqtada is doing? do you think he WANTS the US to keep troops there so he can topple Maliki’s government and make an Iranian style theocracy?
@Samara Morgan: Where did I say anything about firing on demonstrators? As far as logistics go, do you really think any US troops left in Iraq won’t be well supplied? Further, I wasn’t saying anything about the PR aspect of it; I was saying that your idea of 10,000 American troops being slaughtered and dragged through the streets is a pipe dream, a sick one btw. As Corner Stone noted, the best way to get a large scale American re-involvement is to threaten American forces. The US military is capable of do unbelievably massive damage to any force that is put up against it. Holding a securing a country is another story, but if put to a test I wouldn’t bet very much money on the Mahdi army’s chances in straight up combat.
Again, I favor getting out and if you post another reply without taking that into account, I will simply ignore you.
@General Stuck: Pages 4 through 7 in your linked PDF prove my assertion.
ETA, and no, I said West and meant West. The threat of AQ is used by many govts, and they have struck in Spain and the UK before.
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh please. She’s so giddy for her Muqtada fantasies to come true she’s practically masturbating over them. Of course she’ll still be a white girl from Colorado when this is all done. And that’s the part that really goads her. suzanne has her nailed.
@Samara Morgan: Well, I tell you what. You keep going off the musings of our media and I’ll keep going off the words of friends I still have in Iraq from my last deployment. We’ll see who’s right.
That she does.
I think he’s doing what he’s always done. He’s being a mouthy blowhard to generate effect in a local political arena.
He may not be very bright, and all reports paint him as a mouth breathing thug, but he’s not going to send 60K of his voters to die in close combat with a superior force.
I predict the SOFA will be altered and we will be asked to stay longer. It may be called something else but we will continue our presence in Iraq.
And I don’t much care what Iran thinks about the US protecting our 10K troops left in Iraq. Just as certainly as I knew Obama would never allow a default, I am 100% certain he will take any action needed to not lose 10K troops. PR in the MENA region be damned.
Whatever, no one knows for sure yet, whether OBL being dead will dissolve AQ into nothing at all. But we can be assured that corner stone will be safe in Texas, because nobody but Texans wants to be there.
@Cassidy: im reading the dinar traders.
its their lifeblood dude.
but their engrish is not so good, so i linked english media sources.
wanna bet on the outcome? EID is sept 2.
you guys dont read my links so in your face mothafuckers!
@Corner Stone: i think if we try to leave 10k troops there, Sadr will topple Maliki’s government.
i think that is the end game for him.
Actually, we do know. Or at least those interested in actual facts know at this point that OBL was under house arrest in Pakistan and was irrelevant to the larger operational goals of AQ as well as their day to day functioning.
The link you cited as proof of your claims actually details the separation of the regional squads of AQ from the core guidance of OBL. They pledged fealty to the same ideological aspirations, and that’s about it.
Which is a completely different outcome and goal set than sending his 60K army into battle to close with the US troops.
Of course he’s using rhetoric for local political effect. Minor skirmishes will surely happen but there’s no way he’s sending his followers into full scale battle.
He’s just positioning himself as his Iranian benefactors have requested.
@Omnes Omnibus: only on my nafs.
it is a great problem for me in my approach to faana.
suzanne is pretty dimwitted on most things.
@Corner Stone: well…Muqtada plans to be the next Grand Ayatollah. And one reason Iraq needs to kick the americans out is that Iran and America are sworn enemies, and Iraq and Iran are going to be forming a shiia crescent of influence.
i do not think Obama is going to leave troops there. Its kabuki for the Sauds, so he can say, well we tried.
But we should know soon.
Ramadan ends on August 31.
Muqtada’s threat is to bring the Arab Spring down on Maliki if he doesnt kick the Americans out, or if he tries to weasel into them staying.
we wont have long to wait to find out.
No, all the pages of that report you cite say, is that there is differing opinion how much OBL was involved in AQ operations. Not whether he was, which he was, and not under “house arrest”
There was a treasure trove of intell and names and dates of AQ operatives, and what they were up to that was current, showing OBL was involved, and received communications from his troops outside of his compound.
Since before 9-11, he had been in the AFpak region, and not involved much more than he was in May, only not as able to get as out and about, but he sure as shit wasn’t under house arrest.
So no, I don’t concede the point OBL was meaningless, either operationally or inspiration as an iconic figure in militant Islam. Watch the ABC video. Unless you just won’t believe anything not manufactured in that besotted brain of yours, therefore safe from government tampering.
@Yutsano: you are the people having Muqtada fantasies. He is very bright, he is a sayyid, and he has many followers.
you want to think of him as a “mouth breathing thug” but in reality he is the likely next Grand Ayatollah of all the Shi’ia.
do you know who else studied in Iran?
Sayyid Ali al-Sistani, the current Grand Ayatollah of all the Shi’ia.
@General Stuck: I’m not expecting you to concede anything. You’re too stupid to see the words in front of your face.
OBL was insignificant and the document you personally linked backs that up.
If you had bothered to read it before you linked it you would have seen that. Now you, after you personally linked it, want to say the cite says “opinions differ” ? Then why the F did you link it in the first place as a rebuttal?
Bookmark this thread. I’ll donate $100 to any charity you choose when that day happens.
Also, some guy named Ali who no one ever heard of.
@Omnes Omnibus: im saying that none of that matters. combat superiority will crumble before an Arab Spring style populist revolt.
we are not staying.
and im glad you agree that would be a bad idea.
Wow! Do you actually know any Iraqi’s? I’m really starting to think the only exposure you’ve had to ME culture is books, magazines, and the occasional restaurant.
@Corner Stone: Sistani is 86, and in poor health.
im gonna want you to donate to Free Bradley.
@Samara Morgan: Notice I didn’t ask for a counter wager.
Umm…so what? What does that have to do with your little soldier killing fantasies? Despite your certitude, I am quite aware of what a Grand Ayatollah is. One of them heads Iran in fact. And if you think a 35 year old will jump in front of a very long list of Islamic scholars in front of him, I got a bridge to sell you. Shi’a succession is very hierarchical.
No it doesn’t back up your argument that OBL was insignificant. And It doesn’t matter that the first link I gave didn’t back up mine or your assertions. The last link does back up my assertions, and there are plenty more like it.
I just grabbed the wrong link, sorry, but it happens, and means nothing, once I link something that backs up my argument. You got any links for your bullshit?
@Samara Morgan: No, you were eagerly saying that the Mahdi army would be dragging 10,000 dead Americans through the streets. You are moving your goalposts here. The people arguing with you were not saying that staying is a good idea, that it is politically sustainable in either the US or Iraq, or anything like that. What we were saying was that 60-100,000 partially trained Iraqis were not going to overwhelm and slaughter 10,000 American troops no matter what your very active fantasy life tells you. Our arguments were limited to that point; any extrapolation from it was yours and yours alone.
I sorta feel the same way about your stupid predictions that Obama would use US ground forces to fight in the Libyan civil war.
@Yutsano: no, Ayatollah Khamenei is the Supreme Leader of Iran, sometimes called the Supreme Ayatollah.
you are wrong there. there is only one Grand Ayatollah at a time…well…except when Sistani and Muqtada’s father shared the position.
yes, very hierachial.
Muqtada’s father was a martyr and the Grand Ayatollah.
Do you know what Sayyid means? it means a traceable line of descent from Ali.
and we shall see.
Muqtada doesnt style himself as Saladin– but more as al-Jaza’iri, who fought the french in Algeria like Muqtada wants to fight the american invader/occupiers and force them out of Iraq.
The Bush administration was always killing the #3 guy, so you have to admit the Obama administration is making progress!
@Roger Moore: You’re too quick for me!
@Omnes Omnibus: if we stay, that will happen.
im not happy about it, but it is what will happen. Muqtada has promised to do that.
and even a hundred thousand troops cant put down an Arab Spring revolution.
do you think the “force amplifiers” will fire on their muslim brothers and sisters?
and Omnes, it would be unjust.
i cant see Obama doing that.
i think we will leave.
do you remember when Hillary chilled out the Saudis when they were gunna help Mubarak?
keeping troops there is just kabuki to chill the Saudis out.
we cant dooo eeet.
In other words, not subject to a popular vote. And the scholars care boo about his popularity or his fighting record.
Which again won’t matter to the scholars. Muqtada just got finished studying in Qom. There are numerous scholars before him who did that decades ago and have a body of scholarship much thicker. You’re just indulging your fantasies if you think he gets appointed.
@Samara Morgan: No one is talking about putting down an Arab Spring. Read what people wrote and respond to it and only it. It is force multipliers not amplifiers and it refers to things like close air support, artillery, machine guns, and such that enable a relatively small group of people to have the firepower of a much larger force. Learn the terminology before you try to use it.
@Omnes Omnibus: Surprisingly, she keeps conflating the popular will of the people with the actions of a politically ambitious thug.
Of course he was under house arrest in Pakistan. Do you think he lived there for 6 years free as a bird?
And I plan to have dinner with Salma Hayek sometime this year. Both have about the same chance of coming true.
@Corner Stone: Surprisingly?! I am not sure why I am bothering with her right now. It is one of those situations where people disagree but are reasonably well informed. It is pure fantasy, ignorance, and a rather appalling blood lust on her side of the conversation. I might need to find something useful to do with my afternoon like rearranging my sock drawer (I bought some new socks yesterday, so you can obviously see the need.)
@Omnes Omnibus: There could also be a Saab aching for its owner to take it on a pleasure cruise. Will no one think of the poor Saabs?
(I’m off to scrounge up lunch meself.)
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m doing laundry for a 6 year old and about to go buy some fresh fruit for the snacking of.
Thinking about picking up a porterhouse along the way.
@Yutsano: nope, im thinking he WANTS to be. it maybe that the circumstances will deliver his goal.
Sistani was born in Iran, Muqtada and his father both Iraqis, one of the candidates is a Pakistani. when the american troops leave there will be jockeying for influence. it may be that Muqtada is the Iranians man at this point and they will push his succession. or it could happen in the fog of war. :)
@Omnes Omnibus: yes you are talking about an Arab Spring style revolt. That is exactly what Muqtada is threatening to do in his letter that i linked. didnt you read it?
and im not “happy” about american troops being killed and dragged through the streets.
im explaining why that is a HUGE deterrent.
sure, good ol’ cowboy cat GW would have run a hundred thou troops back into Iraq to protect our “interests”. but it wont do any good, and Obama is smarter than that as he showed in Libya.
less say we run a big force back in there and crush the madhi army. how is that going to play with the locals who already want us to GTFO?
more dead muslims, more muslim orphans == more terrorists down the road.
@Yutsano: There is a festival going on on my street. I can get Inga out, but I will never get her back into the parking the lot the way things are right now.
@Samara Morgan: Seriously, no, I am not. But I am done talking with you about this right now since, as usual, it is pointless. You are arguing against points that no one is making and ignoring actual arguments that you find inconvenient.
(btw, and off topic, I actually enjoy your artwork)
Thank you for that! I appreciate your saying so very much. It’s all for sale, even if I am an asshole, shit flinging, monkey. ;D
@Omnes Omnibus: well did you read Muqtada’s letter at least?
because Arab Spring style is exactly what he is promising.
Not getting sucked into it again here, my friend. I never said it WAS an inside job, thank you very much. My position is that many elements of the official story do not add up, and I don’t believe it in its entirety for a minute. As you well know, that position does not require me to have proof of what DID actually happen.
If you are serious about seeking out evidence that the official story is bogus in part or in whole, you might just find some on the Intertrons.
Uh-huh. You mock people who don’t think it was, but that doesn’t mean you believe it. You believe in something you won’t name and don’t need evidence for. Keep telling yourself that makes you an independent thinker, not like the rest of us sheep.
You are a gullible fool. What I believe, as I have said here on many occasions and did so again above in the thread, is that the official story is, as a whole, a big fucking lie. And there is a ton of evidence to support that broad and general conclusion; apparently, you just don’t want to see or hear it even though it’s been in front of us for ten years. Doesn’t mean every single element is a lie, as you know. Doesn’t mean I have the resources to find out the entirety of what DID really happen. ONe might think the U.S. government would do that for us, but one would be mistaken.
Well then: if you believe the official 9/11 story is an elaborate lie, then what do you believe really happened?
As for Osama’s death: If it wasn’t him that Seal Team Six killed, why hasn’t he popped up with a video message to humiliate the US? Or could it be that the inconsistencies merely reflect the difficulties of piecing together different participants’ recollections of a chaotic and violent incident?
“does Al Qaeda go through No. 2’s quicker than Dr. Evil?” Well, it’s not a job you take for the great pension benefits but the opportunities for advancement are really tremendous.
What makes you think the seals killed anyone for sure? My guess is he has been dead for a number of years; kept alive in the minds of the public, and in various bogus and hilarious videos/audios, to feed the desired level of FEAR and to provide ongoing rationale for various wars. Just my guess; I certainly don’t believe the absurd assassination and burial at sea narrative. hahaha…my god the shit people will believe from the government that they wouldn’t buy for a second coming from their teenagers!
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: We didn’t land on the moon either.
Well then: if you believe the official 9/11 story is an elaborate lie, then what do you believe really happened?
How many ways can I say this?: I do not KNOW what to BELIEVE as far as what actually occurred in its totality…I don’t have enough evidence. I do believe the government story as a whole is bullshit.
I also do not believe your questions are in earnest, so I prefer to not to, in the immortal words of Satan’s Petri Dish Barbara Bush, “waste my precious mind” on responding to you about this matter.
Remember when Obama said during the 2008 campaign that the U.S. would kill bin Laden and crush al-Qaida, and that if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we would? And remember how his opponents called him naive? It seems like only yesterday.
While President Obama, his administration and our troops are busy taking out our enemies and keeping the country safe from another 9/11 type attack, members of the previous administration are crawling out from under their rock for their annual pilgrimage to exploit the anniversary 9/11.
Typical. Are you a paid government rat fucker or just willfully ignorant?
I do know that I did not, personally, land on the moon. Did you? If not, what’s with the “we?”
I am totally OK with knowing that there are many things I do not KNOW. I don’t have your childish need to BELIEVE things regardless of the questionable nature of the evidence supporting them. Not knowing is…OK.
Skepticism is a healthy world view. You should try it. Naive and credulous is no way to go thru life. That mindset among the american public got this country into a couple of recent wars, if you recall…
@TheWorstPersonInTheWorld: You have to resort to grammar fascism? Sad, really.
It’s so cute that you think your inability to see a difference between “doesn’t believe evidence-free conspiracy theories” and “believes every word the government says” makes you smarter than everyone else.
::pats you on the head::
@TooManyJens: Voting is, like, totally uncool to him, and stuff. So eat it you stinking hippie!
American officials described Mr. Rahman’s death as particularly significant as compared with other high-ranking Qaeda operatives who have been killed
House Arrest includes restrictions on who and what goes into the house, as well as who and what goes out. OBL likely agreed to stay in that compound for the reasons of his ISI handlers request, and not to risk his own hide by getting spotted outside, by prying eyes. He eventually got spotted by prying eyes from above. Though not 100 percent identified, but Obama took the risk anyway, and sent in the SEALS. The rest is history.
But there were no restrictions on him continuing to lead his AQ troops on the outside, from “runners” to come and go with communications. How do you think the CIA got the initial tip of where he was hiding?
Some one high up in Pakistani ISI didn’t stay bought and sold him to the US. Are you that stupid you can’t understand this?
We didn’t get OBL from some sat video, and damn sure not from interrogating people in custody for years for the name of a “courier”.
OBL was sold to us. This is so obvious I can’t believe I have to keep saying it.
That must be it. Or,
Who am I to argue with Agent Smart, code name Corner Stone.
@General Stuck: The same source is selling us AQ piece by piece.
Wow. You know absolutely zero about that side of the world.
@Cassidy: oh yeah?
read the letter.
you are obviously a Team America Fuck Yeah bot that cant conceive of how deeply and profoundly american soldiers are hated in Iraq.
The Iraqis made a national holiday of the day they got the Occupiers out of their cities.
@Cliff: its snake chopping. the theory is, cut off the head of the snake and the body will die.
sadly for the Powerless Hyperpower there are a million interchangeable snakes.
and we just keep making more.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?
Could you tell me what evidence-free conspiracy theory it is that I believe?
Didn’t think so! Thanks!
@Cassidy: we will see on september 9 i guess.
And on September 20 the UN votes on Pali statehood.
Pardon my smug, i have zero empathy for people that make war on children.
You really have no argument at all to make, without putting false words in the mouths of those who disagree with you, do you?
Sure sign of a dishonest broker.
@Omnes Omnibus: did you read the letter Omnes? we only have to wait until sept 9 to see if Muqtada’s summoning births a revolution.
It would have just as accurate if you stopped after the empathy.
i think september is going to be a very bad month for all the Team-America-Fuck-Yeah bots here.
olbos khoros hubris…….ate
@Omnes Omnibus: i have a lot of empathy for the Iraqis. For the Occupiers?
not so much.
i have a lot of empathy for the Gazans.
for the Israelinazis?
not so much.
its all relative.
@Samara Morgan: Not rooting for American soldiers to be slaughtered in the streets does not make one a Team-America-Fuck-Yeah bot; rather, it makes one someone who is not rooting for American soldiers to be slaughtered in the streets.
How the fuck should I know what you believe, since you don’t (or won’t) tell us? Moreover, I don’t care, since I’m not interested in the theories of the hard of thinking. This all started because you gave arguingwithsignposts all that “gosh, golly, no, of course the government would never lie” crap for mocking the “9/11 was an inside job” conspiracy theorists. It’s back there in #45; it’s not that hard to find.
So you’re not a 9/11 truther yourself, but mocking them makes the rest of us unquestioning sheeple. Whatever.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
That’s the Number Two that got away.
@Omnes Omnibus: look.
Muqtada’s avocation of killing American troops that outstay the SOFA is a DETERRENT.
im not “rooting” for it.
im saying that seeing american soldier corpses dragged through the streets of baghdad on al-jazeera live has got to be heavily weighted in Obama’s risk/threat decision matrix.
when i point out that is what Muqtada SAYS he is going to do, i get all these teamamericafuckyeah bots telling me no way is that gunna happen, blah blah combat superiority, blah blah blah.
sure its gunna happen, even if its only 2 or 3 corpses.
and the blowback would be horrendous.
@Samara Morgan: Sweetheart, I’ve walked into that country twice with a 3rd ID patch on my arm. We were the top of that most hated heap. It’s you who doesn’t realize what a disservice you’re doing to the Iraqi people with your broad and ignorant proclamations. You know nothing about them.
Muqta has said he’s going to do a lot of things. A lot of them came up as bullshit. JAM is a joke. Even the other insurgent groups thought they were a joke. You bring up JAM and most Iraqi’s start laughing.
@Cassidy: The. Child. Is. Never. Wrong. Her fragile ego will never allow herself to be. She stands impervious to your facts because they do not line up with her certitude. And nothing can ever break her bubble lest she be confronted with the fact that she is a spoiled rich white girl from Colorado.
It’s not a deterrent because he lacks the means to accomplish said aspirations.
And everyone but you knows this.
LOL, gj SM
Muqtada al-Sadr is waiting to lead the Madhi army in more Iraq-wide violence, whether or not it’s carried out against U.S. personnel. Those personnel will be the preferred targets until they leave.
The group’s current happy-friendly-parliamentary behavior is a form of retrench/regroup, the old Maoist “temporary cease-fire” trick. That’s guaranteed.
“The time for violence is not now,” as their Iraqi representative told the BBC a couple months ago.
As we draw down further, it’ll be a tough balancing act for him between the propaganda benefit of killing Americans and the military benefit of waiting until we no longer even care who runs the place.
I assume the means they’ll use to seize the government will probably be mass intimidation killings during election season.
@Yutsano: In her defense, my “facts” are anecdote and experience. I have been in a lot of security briefings and JAM was active in our sector. But they were always briefed as a “they’re here” kinda thing. They always had grand ideas and proclamations, but had no resources to pull it off. Anytime JAM thratened us, we just tended to shrug and go “next”.
You realize that your statement could be used to describe most of the commenters here, right? And I would kick a nun in the crotch (h/t Cleek) to know just how you know this piece of information:
Not that I will be remotely surprised.
@soonergrunt: I can’t take credit for the revelation. suzanne put the pieces together and took them to their logical conclusion. But once you see it written it kinds of becomes a DUH!! moment. She is, essentially, a rebellious teenager. Please spare the poor penguin. I do have a dearly departed Catholic grandmother, and she would haunt me even into the afterlife if I caused harm to a holy sister.
My first phrasing was not accidental. Malleability is rare these days it seems.
@Cassidy: You’ll forgive me if I give your anecdotes and experience more credibility than the child’s rantings. She only knows what she’s read and assumes it’s true without checking other sources beyond those that confirm her biases.
@Cassidy: guess we will see what happens on Sept 9.
@Yutsano: I’ll have to look for that. Should make interesting reading. I grew up in Colorado, so I wonder what that particular tell is.
@Samara Morgan: ramadan Hakeem!
Let’s Charlie know who did this.