This is interesting, one of the founders of the Tea Party expresses support for the Occupy Together movement:
“One of the things that the Occupy movement seems to have going for it is it has not turned around and issued a set of formal demands,” said Denninger. “This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Everyone is looking for a set of demands.” Denninger added that once the protesters formally approach the banks and government with a list of demands, “then somebody is going to say, ‘Well, we gave you 70 percent. Now go home.’”
In the case of the Tea Party, Denninger says such organization was actually the group’s downfall. “One of the things we wanted was the end to bailouts and an end to government deficit spending, and as you can see that didn’t happen,” said Denninger, who today manages The Market Ticker.
Denninger added that demonstrators with Occupy Wall Street and the offshoots across the world shouldn’t just abandon their goals. “Stay on message, which is that the corruption is not a singular event,” he said. “You can’t focus in one place. You have to get the money out of politics, which is very difficult to do, but at the same time you can’t silence people’s voice.”
Look, I don’t buy into Hamsher’s tea party/hippie alliance idea at all. The Tea Party may have had some well-meaning grassroots component but it quickly became dominated by Koch/Murdoch astroturf and, well, racism. At the same time, the Occupy movement’s anti-Wall Street sentiment may strike more of a chord with some Tea Party types than you might think.
Jenny
Hamsher’s “tea party/hippie alliance idea” has alway been desperate spin to explain away why she hooked up with corrupt evil-doer Grover Norquist.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
Nice to see someone finally acknowledge Denninger as the founder of the Tea Party v.1. (A group that came together to protest TARP).
He (and other people involved in THAT group) are really not amused by what the Kock Bros. did to the name.
liberal
I don’t think Denninger is at all a typical Tea Party guy (see e.g. Wikipedia page on him).
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I suspect a lot of the teabaggers would find cause with OWS if they could get over their need to defend how idiotic they have been acting, and they could realize that someone yelling “Abortion!” is there to distract them from the wealthy picking their pockets. Most of them probably don’t even realize who has been paying their bills.
I don’t see them getting over those first two, though. The first one is human nature, and the second one is figuring out priorities.
Xecky Gilchrist
The Tea Party may have had some well-meaning grassroots component but it quickly became dominated by Koch/Murdoch astroturf and, well, racism.
That’s as may be, but I’m skeptical about the grassroots component part. The only things we know for sure about the Tea Party is that a) it’s not a political party, it’s a rebranding of the fringe Republicans b) it’s been driven by Koch-type backers all along and c) it has no credibility on anything at all.
ETA: didn’t know about the stuff Thoughtful Black Co-citizen said at #2. I’m gobsmacked there was anything genuine about the whole movement, so I take back parts b) and c), a little bit.
slag
That and a buck fifty will buy me a cup of tea.
George Will represented the Tea Party quite nicely when he told Jesse LaGreca that “conservatives” think government has been corrupted too, which is why we should get rid of it and put corporations in charge. Best democracy money can buy.
Dougerhead
@slag:
So I actually think it’s more significant than that. I think that the over hatred of Galtians has a lot of appeal to a lot of people and that’s part of what makes this movement successful.
j
Jane Hamster is Grover Norquist’s gerbil. She works hand in hand with him. And whenever anyone points that out she screams “Lt. Choi need our help!! Send ME money!!”
That place is like “the Hillbots meet Agent Flowbee”.
I hope TBogg vacates that vipers nest soon.
Xboxershorts
Don’t write it off. And don’t expect much in the way of formal alliances either. But some people from the Fox base are waking up. And when these folks realize how badly they’ve been used, they are pissed. Now, Hippies and Rednecks won’t always see eye to eye, but Denninger has a real point that resonates. The corruption is endemic and worldwide and I would go farther and add that it is the root of the anger boiling in society.
We actually need as many of the tea party sympathizers that can be peeled away from Fox news as we can get.
That’s just my 2 cents, it’s bedtime now. Be well all.
KoolEarl
Denninger thinks Herman Cains 9-9-9 gimmick is sound
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196022
Dougerhead
@KoolEarl:
He’s kind of a nut, yeah.
nepat
Tell it to Dick Armey.
Listen, I said it at the time. If the Tea Party was a serious operation they would have been protesting on Wall Street three years ago. There wouldn’t have been a TARP (or the need for a stimulus, for that matter) if the financial industry hadn’t torched the global economy. The deficit squeals are BS. If a winger wins in 2012, deficits will suddenly not matter any more. Just like Reagan taught us.
ps – the only thing the Tea Party and Hamsher have in common is Obama hate. Don’t feed the trolls.
slag
@Dougerhead:
Hmmm…I can’t decide if I find this optimistic or pessimistic. No doubt that dislike of the Other has a lot of sway in this country, esp among the conservative types. But most often, the Other was born a poor black child. If the new Other was born a Jamie Dimon, I guess I could see that as an improvement. But I’m dubious. Maybe I’m the pessimist here.
superdestroyer
HOw can anyone hope to take the “money out of politics” when the federal government’s budget is almost $3 trillion a year and the state and local governments spend an addtional #1.5 trillion.
How can anyone hope to take the “money out of politics” when the code of federal regulations contains 10,000’s of pages of regulations that affect virtually every aspect of life in the U.S
What the protestors really want is a one-page-state where they will be the order givers so that they can have a higher quality of life and control of others.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Xecky Gilchrist: Honest. I went to possibly the only TPv.1 protest (in D.C. at any rate). There were less than 2 dozen people there (including the local 9/11 truther who wandered up and everyone politely tolerated). It was everything you’d expect from any gathering that had been hastily organized via the Internet. But the folks were cool and if there were any libertarians there, they weren’t the super crazy kind or they kept it to themselves.
The vast majority would have been dismissed as DFHs or dumb younguns by the Very Serious People who make it their business to tell us what to think.
jonas
Yes, there may have been a few honest libertarian-types in the early days of the Tea Party movement who were energized by TARP and the GM bailouts, but they were quickly drowned out by your run-of-the-mill cranky, white dittoheads who pretended to rail against Wall Street while simultaneously giving every single Republican initiative to further fluff America’s corporate masters a hearty halleluja.
I’ll believe Tea Partiers are honest when they:
1. demand a constitutional amendment to reverse Citizens United and restrict corporate involvement in politics
2. stand up for Dodd-Frank or similarly-targeted regulation of exotic financial instruments.
3. Demand deficits be reduced even if it means raising marginal tax rates and closing loopholes on large corporations
Since the “movement” (= Rush Limbaugh and the Koch brothers) will never, ever, in a million years do any of this, I will continue to call bullshit on their entire made up “party”.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
Oh Christ, who forgot to put out fresh roach traps?
wonkie
The Tea Party is just the Rethug base. many of them are people who are serioulsy harmed by Rethug politics, and a few of them might even notice that if the Rethugs succeed in defunding Medicaid or change Medicare to a voucher system, but most of them are so willfully misinformed (because the common characteristics of hard core Rethug voters is their desire to get somethig for nothig and their desire to blame everyoe but themselves) that they will keep o believig whatever latest rightwig email lands in their email box and will keep on voting R until they are finally put on Medicare financed ventillators and their heirs pull the plug.
Yutsano
@superdestroyer:
LOLWUT??
slag
@Dougerhead:
I had a response to this that involved poor black children v. Jamie Dimon, but all I’ve got now is FYWP.
j
@superdestroyer:
A one page thing would go like this:
Do unto others…
Or the 10 Commandments would work too.
ChrisNYC
Both anti-state, tho for different reasons, I think.
“If you agree that state and corporation are merely two sides of the same oppressive power structure, if you realize how media distorts things to preserve it, how it pits the people against the people to remain in power, then you might be one of us.”
http://occupywallst.org/article/September_Revolution/
From OWS website call to action — speaking only for Occupy Wall Street, not the entire movement.
Bago
You can’t take the money out of politics, as money and politics are all about influence. What you can do is add accountability to politics, by documenting donations.
Yutsano
WP eted my comment dammit. It was such a good troll mock too.
PeakVT
What the protestors [sic] really want is a one-page-state where they will be the order givers so that they can have a higher quality of life and control of others.
Conservatism fails, but wingnut projection never does.
Three-nineteen
@superdestroyer: Why do you think the protesters want control of others?
jwb
Had whoever pens Buddy Roemer’s tweets pop into my timeline this morning on Twitter. That was quite bizarre, but does suggest that Roemer is trying to figure out how to ride this wave. Haven’t paid much attention to Roemer, and I’m sure that, given he’s a gooper, his proposed policies are as nutty as the rest, but he does seem quite committed to Denninger’s idea of getting money out of politics.
Montysano
@KoolEarl:
Well, to be fair, the post that you linked to was a good bit more complex than your characterization.
Full disclosure: I read Denninger on a regular basis. As a math major, his approach appeals to me. His latest post is in support of OWS. He tells his (mostly right-leaning) readers to ignore the media narrative, attend a gathering, and make up their own minds. In this regard, he’s fairly unique.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Xecky Gilchrist: Yeah, I went to what may have been the only TPv.1 protest.
Maybe 2 dozen people looking kind of lonely in front of the Capitol building. Everyone there was pissed about TARP and bailing out the banks.
Except the resident 9/11 truther who wandered up and after the out-of-towners realized he was serious, hung out and made everyone uneasy because no one wanted a confrontation.
It was poorly and hastily organized and the vast majority of people there would have been dismissed as DFHs by the Very Serious People who make it their business to tell us what to think.
A cameraman and some assistant from a news station wandered up, asked when it was going to start, found out it was half-way over and wandered off again. And that … was pretty much it. The next time I heard about a Tea Party protest I discovered it had become somewhat … bloated. And older. And fucking obnoxious.
j
@jonas:
The WHOLE Teabagging (their term at the time) thing was in the works and planned BEFORE Santelli did his little act. Here is a pre-emptive hand cleansing from the right wing excuse site “NewsBusters” trying to come up with some plausible denial”.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/03/01/playboy-cnbcs-santelli-part-vast-anti-obama-conspiracy
Note the date… 3/1/09. Also note that they change the subject and claim that President Obama tried to get Milton Rosenberg thrown off the air (he’s been on WGN for overt 30 years at that point).
Read all the internal links PROVIDED, (by the wing-nut) and then Google the TRUTH. There are enough names and dates to figure it out.
Taht ENTIRE Santelli rant WAS STAGED!
piratedan
@PeakVT: which is completely different than what we have now…..hey! wait a minute…..
El Cid
I hate to break it, but it’s not like only “Hamsher” who suggested that Tea Party folks angered at “bailouts” could have many of the same motivations as liberals or leftists or leftishes or progressives regarding the subservience to the financial industry. I heard it from every direction.
I didn’t think it was right, but it’s always to a point an empirical question.
To reify any such thought as magically produced by the great enemy Hamsher is simply absurd.
Chris
I don’t buy the alliance either. But it’s possible we could suck away some of their base, maybe even a significant part, as you point out in that second sentence.
You know how even though Republicans in the 1970s were never able to (or interested in) co-opting unions or the traditional labor movements, they were able to co-opt a lot of their voters by appealing to things their traditional representatives in the unions weren’t representing? It might be possible for us to do that in reverse, methinks.
Dougerhead
@El Cid:
She’s the first person I read who said this, that’s all.
ChrisNYC
Also, I don’t think electoral reform/Citzens United pushback is really the OWS goal. I think it’s much larger and more about the process of the movement, changing the way observers and participants think, question, act, than anything else.
Again from the call to action for the NY group.
That’s the last I’ll treat you all to. I’m not an OWS supporter but I have done some reading up and it’s fascinating.
RareSanity
I don’t think that even something as big as OWS, will have the slightest affect, on anyone that supports the current “Tea Party”
The reasonable (I use that term relatively) ones have peeled off already. The ones that are left, are mentally incapable of accepting, that DFHs can ever be correct.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
That guy sounds like the Kevin Drum of Tea Partiers. So milquetoast.
El Cid
@Dougerhead: Well, then your sources were limited. I’ve been reading arguments that there were crossovers between right wing populism and left wing (broadly defined) class consciousness efforts for decades, and I think that there is a weird obsession on this blog with “Hamsher” that borders on the stalkishly creepy.
Bubblegum Tate
But but but some Nazis have thrown their support behind OWS, therefore “communists, Nazis, and the Occupy Wall Street crowd are nothing more than different feathers on the same bird.”
Yes, that is a direct quote from a wingnut blog.
Micheline
Denninger’s statement is a way to co-opt the OWS movement. Personally, I find the tea party to be authoritarian and reactionary, whereas the OWS so far isn’t. Moreover, many moderates find the tea party unappealing, the OWS has to win hearts and minds and the only way is to separate itself from the tea party.
Bubblegum Tate
But but but some Knotsies have thrown their support behind OWS, therefore “commun1sts, [Knotsies], and the Occupy Wall Street crowd are nothing more than different feathers on the same bird.”
Yes, that is a quote from a wingnut blog, slightly reworded so as not to trigger moderation.
Bubblegum Tate
But OWS is totally Nazi!
The wingnuts are really losing their shit over OWS. Good.
opal
Erik at Redstate test marketed a similar concept last week.
I couldn’t tell if he was serious…it just went on and on.
jonas
@El Cid: The Tea Party rage against the GM bailouts was about 10% “keep government out of free markets” and 90% “stick it to the UAW”.
piratedan
while it’s nice that the TP folks that may not have been part of the Koch astroturf machine feel some kinship, they’re the ones that allowed themselves to be seduced and co-opted by the dark side. If I was the OWS folks, I would be incredibly leery to allowing any of the TP folks into positions of influence because they were so easily hoodwinked the last time into running like lemmings over a cliff.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Looks like the “assign a troll to a blog talking about Wall Street Reform” algorithm has sent us superdestroyer this evening. Welcome.
Binary thinking, it’s all the rage this year.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): How many posts will it take him to get to the usual racist clap trap?
One … Two … Three … CRUNCH!
Loneoak
The alliance would flourish quickly if Fox gave Zizek an hour long talk show. Maybe co-hosted with one of the interchangeable blond conservative ladies.
chrome agnomen
@RareSanity:
i concur 100%. tea party advocates have already amply shown a complete lack of critical thinking skills, so their adherence to any protest is bound to last only until the next shiny object appears.
piratedan
@Bubblegum Tate: cool! so some random douchebag from the Nazi party says he supports the OWS and that automagically means that the Nazi’s are calling the shots for the OWS. So that means that the Tea Party really is embracing their inner bircherism because the JB Society has had the Tea Party’s back all this time, right? Those asshats still somehow think Nazi=socialist. Memo to conservatives, just because you use a term or a name or adopt a label, doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what it is… it’s the New and approved” way of twisting language.
eemom
this is just more useless navel-gazing bullshit.
What separates the OWS protesters from the teatards? Having enough sense to turn their heads around and see who it is that’s fucking them in the ass.
I’m obviously not running this thing, but if I were I sure as shit wouldn’t be wasting my time on Teatard Outreach. There are plenty of people out there who are NOT dumber than dirt that they should be focusing on.
El Cid
@Dougerhead: That’s kind of bizarre, since I’ve read and heard and discussed arguments for decades — not to mention efforts — at a populist right / left class consciousness alliance.
I didn’t think this was a sensible thing to discuss with ‘the Tea Party’ Bircherites, given that they appear to be the same fucking paranoid ultra-right loons they’ve always been, but there is always some degree to which some followers might share some broad principles of agreement.
There is a stalkerish obsession with Jane Hamsher on this blog which is just creepy.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Oh, that clown has been here before.
Boots Day
The Tea Party is simply that part of the Republican Party that doesn’t know anything at all about government.
El Cid
Hello?
Yutsano
So now I’m not getting to post at all?? WTF??
eemom
this is just more useless navel-gazing bullshit.
What separates the OWS protesters from the teatards? Having enough sense to turn their heads around and see who it is that’s fucking them in the ass.
I’m obviously not running this thing, but if I were I sure as shit wouldn’t be wasting my time on Teatard Outreach. There are plenty of people out there who are NOT dumber than dirt that they should be focusing on.
[why was this eated the first time I posted it?]
eemom
@Yutsano:
me too. WTF??
eemom
what the fuck is going on…..
Anya
I am amazed that not a single FPer who posted today deemed MLK memorial dedication a worthy enough event for a mention.
piratedan
looks like a massive FYWP event is ongoing, lost three posts already
piratedan
@Anya: in defense, it was mentioned often in at least two of the ongoing open threads today
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Anya: ABL might post something here later, she did do something about it on her own site earlier.
MikeJ
I like the fact that this is the third time somebody has titled a post on BJ “Tea and Sympathy”.
joe brown
I’ve been thinking that the weakness of #OWS compared to the Tea Party is that the latter votes, organizes, and fields candidates. If #OWS cannot field a candidate or finance a politician, where can it go?
MikeJ
@joe brown: When I’ve compared OWS to the tea baggers I’ve laughed at the similarity of “occupy” and “we surround you”.
ericblair
I’m also leery because right populism very easily gets directed into blaming Teh Jooz for all financial problems. I’m sure there are a few teabaggers who are honestly angry at the financial system and got shoveled into a counterproductive movement, but it sure as hell looks more like “I Want My Country Back”, translated as “Put the White Racists Back in Charge.”
Anya
@The prophet Nostradumbass: So ABL is on the black beat? MLK is a true American hero, I was hoping his day was important to us all. I know that’s not what you meant and I agree with with @piratedan: but I was hoping for a little prominent post. I get it that this site is about pets, snark and ridiculing the wingers ….… Sometimes it’s good to pay respect to true heroes.
opal
@El Cid:
I don’t recall anyone mentioning Jane Hamsher, but be assured that I hold her roughly in the same regard as Anne Coulter.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Anya:
I have no idea if the other posters think that way, or not. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if there was something unconscious that works out that way.
Bubblegum Tate
@piratedan:
Amazing, isn’t it? That same crowd also dug up some article in which the US Communist Party declared that it is “using” the Democratic party, which, of course, proves that SOSHULISM!
Calouste
@jonas:
I’m pretty sure that matter-anti-matter combination of words caused WordPress to implode this evening.
Nevgu
Jesus titty fuking christ. Sorry but you are going to have to sell this “Teabaggers and 99%’ers should join hands and sing koombaya” bullshit somewhere else typing monkey Dougerhead. Stick to what your good at such as crashing the website and screwing up the spam filter.
Teabaggers have NOTHING in common with OWS. NOTHING! They have something in common with the tiny percentage of OWS who are trying to use it for their anarchy tendencies. And the only thing those 2 groups have in commons is ignorance.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@j:
Fix’t.
Divide and conquer is what the powers that be have been counting on to maintain their grasp on power. As long as they can keep Americans at each others throats then they can keep their own throats safe. The last damned thing they want is people who they have trained to hate ‘the other’ to start sympathizing and agreeing with them. If that happens, they might resolve their differences and then turn their ire on the powers that be.
The powerful do not want the American people in agreement about anything unless it’s to give themselves more power or money. They benefit by divisiveness, they learned that divide and conquer works within your own country. The OWS/99%er movement is actually about something that most people agree about and this has to scare the shit out of the smarter powers who aren’t in denial or dismissive of the protesters.
They may not get out of this the usual way, by paying off some politicians.
Montysano
@Nevgu:
At some level, there is a desire in both groups to return to By The People, For The People.
I know this: neither OWS nor the Tea Party will prevail on their own. However, a broad-based populist movement, one that draws from both sides of the aisle to create a 60%-70% movement, could make TPTB quake in their boots.
tkogrumpy
@superdestroyer: Fuck you.
tkogrumpy
@El Cid: Call it what it is, “Hamsher derangement syndrome”.