I’m a big fan of Melissa Harris-Perry’s new show on MSNBC, mainly because of discussions like this (in contrast to whatever the Sunday Bobbleheads are usually spouting about.)
Things never before heard on a Sunday politics show: “See what happens when you invite a theologian to the table.” And I hate Sunday shows. I watch this one. I’ll continue to watch this one.
And it bears repeating that on any other cable news show discussing the religious implications of birth control and women, the panelist would have been male.
Open thread.
BGinCHI
Which Bishop is that on the panel? Anyone know?
At one point folks were quoting the Bishop of Bridgeport. I was like, “Bishop of Bridgeport? How hard is it to get that post? Was the See of Bumfuck, Alabama already filled?”
Bush leaguers….
beltane
@BGinCHI: Hey, don’t knock the Bishop of Bridgeport. The guy had to work his ass off covering up hundreds of priest sex-abuse allegations to get that post, who are we to question his credentials.
BGinCHI
@beltane: What section do you put that in on your resume?
Yutsano
@BGinCHI: People organization skills. Or something.
surlygurl
UP with Chris Hayes is really good too.
BGinCHI
@Yutsano: I was thinking either “Cover-Ups” or “Secret secrets kept secret.”
c u n d gulag
The Sunday shows have their rotation of geriatric peckerhead guests, hosted by ancient male peckerheads like Boob Schieffer, or younger ones like David Gre-borey.
One channel took a chance and got Christiane Amanpour, a terrific reporter, to host on ABC – and proceeded to ruin her.
Thanks for the tip – I’ll give this show a chance next Sunday.
KyCole
I’m really happy to have some decent morning shows on the weekend when I actually have time to watch.
Veritas
So why isn’t Obambi doing anything about skyrocketing gas prices? They’re about to seriously impact this (weak) economic recovery, possible sending us back down into a double-dip at the same time Europe is being hammered hard and China is slowing down.
With gas prices poised to hit $5, or even $6/gallon in the coming summer, why did Obambi cancel the Keystone XL pipeline? Why is he letting China get the oil? Does he have any solution at all to rapidly escalating gas prices that will hit American consumers where it hurts?
Republicans have a solution to high gas prices:
Drill Here.
Drill Now.
Pay Less.
What’s the Democrats solution?
Suzan
@surlygurl:
I agree. Up is most often very good. So nice to have Sunday morning shows with more liberals than conservatives. And the conservatives Chris has on are people who will discuss issues instead of trying to drown out everyone who disagrees.
WaterGirl
Up with Chris Hayes had 4 women on his show talking about the health care/religion/birth control issue 2 weeks ago. It’s really a terrific show with terrific conversation. I just finished watching this morning’s show, which was terrific.
I will check out the clip you posted above. I hope you check out UP with Chris Hayes. If you missed the show, go to the website where I believe they have all the clips from his shows.
Edit: just noticed i used the word terrific three times in a row. Oh well. I guess that’s better than saying “awesome”.
Veritas
I guess Obambi’s solution is:
Drill Elsewhere.
Drill Later.
Pay More.
trollhattan
@Veritas:
Heh-heh, you said “solution.”
Heh-heh.
Spaghetti Lee
@Veritas:
Looks like you guys weren’t kidding in the oil thread yesterday when you talked about it being a new right-wing talking point.
handsmile
@BGinCHI:
You see, all the “better” bishops were getting their wardrobes together or had last-minute salon appointments for this week’s “Spring Season in Rome,” aka as the elevation of a new group of conservative prelates to the Vatican’s College of Cardinals.
huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/cardinals-pope-church_n_1286181.html
Only those who never get invited to such swank dos were available to genuflect before Issa.
Jennifer
@Veritas: How is more production going to bring down prices when the current prices aren’t the result of insufficient supply, but rather more speculating by your butt-buddies on Wall Street? You can’t bring the current prices down without regulating “the producers” as you would call them.
Veritas
@Jennifer:
Ah, yes. Blaming “speculators” and “hoarders”. Stalin did the same thing when his agricultural policies failed and his construction projects turned out to be shoddily built. It’s a favorite of the left.
jenn
@Veritas: Oh, good lord. (A) gas prices are a function of global supply + global demand + oil company greed + speculators greed; in a global market, there are limits to what a president can do; (B) Drill here – drill now does not reduce prices at the pump — it takes years to develop an oilfield. (C) High fuel prices suck in an economic downturn, no question, but overall, the higher the prices, the easier it is to transition to a cleaner energy economy…which is something we need to do. And (D) frankly, we here in the US pay insanely low prices at the pump. And (E) Obambi? really? At least be creative, if you’re going to insult the man.
Amir Khalid
@Veritas:
This was discussed yesterday, in this thread and this one as well. Do try to keep up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
One thing that I haven’t seen get much MSM attention, and it would have to come from one of MNBC’s “Nerdlanders”, is the fact that while all this lady-parts freak-out was going on with Chris Matthews, EJ Dionne and Lawrence O’Donnell, the retired Archbeanie of NY, Egan, apologized for his apology about sex abuse. It was one of those moments that if you read it in a satire you would say maybe that’s pushing the joke a little too hard.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: Now now now. Rush the Hutt hath spoken and Veritas has his official talking points. Let the troll be, especially since it will most likely go nowhere.
Martin
Rachel was pimping her show the other night and pointed out how excited she was about the direction of cable news, and I have to agree what that view. MSNBC now has two PhDs with shows in their field, and 3 pretty clearly wonk-based shows. Lawrence could have that show as well, if he was so inclined. Having a focus more on how all of the moving pieces of government work could be pretty good, and he’s very knowledgable of that and there are nights when he does that, but not enough, IMO.
Veritas
We’ve been trying to drill in ANWR since 1980, and you’ve used this line for 30+ years now. I wonder how much lower gas prices would be if we had drilled in 1981? Plus the market “prices in” future supply.
Let them fill up with Solyndra! Yeah, THAT’S a winning strategy.
Boy, I sure hope Obambi uses this talking point in July “America, you’re paying $5.50/gallon, but that’s extremely low! Insanely low! Suck it up!” Maybe once we have sky-high heating oil prices in the winter he can do a Jimmy Carter, don a sweater and lecture us on turning down the thermostat.
dead existentialist
@Veritas: Somebody’s got his talking points.
Hill Dweller
@c u n d gulag:
This can’t be repeated enough. The networks are institutionally geared toward the right wing. Consequently, journalists with even a modicum of integrity are faced with a choice: sell your souls and advance or be a real journalist and risk career stagnation.
Unfortunately, the sociopathic careerists, who only care about their place in the media hierarchy, are getting the lion’s share of these hosting gigs, and perpetuating the false balance that currently plagues journalism.
I’m glad MSNBC gave Maddow, Hayes and MHP their own shows, but those three can’t offset the amount of awful ‘journalism’ that network practices the rest of time.
Schlemizel
@beltane:
Reminds me of an underground comic I saw in the 60’s. A judge speaking down at some long-haired DFH:
“Show me some respect boy, I had to kiss a lot of ass to get this position”
schrodinger's cat
I have a question for Catholics, on this thread. What is the significance of the intricate lace doily type things, that priests wear? For example, just last week when the new cardinals were appointed, in the news photos, there seemed to be many priests wearing them.
Maude
@Veritas:
You forgot one for the Republican solution, invade Iraq.
Pretty good, huh?
I’m groggy and I thought I did well.
muddy
I want to third on Up w/ Chris Hayes. Actual discussion, imagine it! You can watch it at their site if you aren’t an early riser. I like the segment of the new thing they learned that week, and each person says one. Sometimes they even cite one of the other panelists, and I have to say that I have learned a lot watching it, rather than just shouting “Shut up you liar how dare you” which was my reaction to other Sunday shows. Eh, that’s just a time waster.
The one this morning had a great talk about the financial crisis, there was a young woman who is with Occupy SEC and she was terrific. I like having MSNBC on while I’m reading the papers.
handsmile
@WaterGirl: (#11)
That was an awesome comment! Maybe not as awesome as Up with Chris Hayes. Which is truly awesome! I mean totally! Tho this morning he had on Jeff Greenfield. Who was not awesome. He was aw-ful. (A dinner theater impersonation of Bill Moyers.) Gag me.
Chris Hayes is seriously messin’ with my weekend mornings, the rat bastid.
(Also too, as commenters go, you are terrific.)
kdaug
@Veritas: [With full knowledge I’m engaging the troll]:
You do understand that the Keystone Pipeline was to bring Canadian shale crude to refineries in Houston (LaMarque, Texas City, et. al.)?
And from there the refined fuel would be off-loaded onto tankers to take it pretty much anywhere on earth?
Would some stay here? Could be.
But it will go where it can get the highest price.
That’s the fucking point – to make the most money you can off your product.
There are people who think about this all day. I ain’t one of them, but I know a few.
some guy
the wingnut wurlitzer is gonna do everything they can to mislead the dimbulbs and boobs that are their base that a huge decline in consumption and a massive increase in speculation of oil has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with higher gas preices.
MittensBot shill is here to tell us , ya you betcha.
John S.
It’s always a treat to see the formerly downtrodden trolls revitalized with Fresh Talking Points™!
At least we all get the opportunity to see what steaming pile of bullshit is going to get served up for the next few months, until it doesn’t work anymore. And then we can rely on Veritas to come back armed with all new Fresh Talking Points™.
It’s like being part of a Frank Luntz focus group.
S. cerevisiae
@Veritas: You do realize we are currently exporting refined petroleum to Central and South America? There isn’t a damn thing any president can do about gas prices, it is global demand that is the driver.
malraux
If anyone wants an interesting read on the life begins at conception idea, check out slacktivist. younger than the happy meal
some guy
1. Invade Iraq
2. Put it on a credit card issued by the Chinese Communist Party
3. VICTORY!
Schlemizel
@Dinglenut:
Dear dinglenut:
We are using less oil now than any time in the last decade. 8% less than the peak year of 2006. In fact America was a net exporter of petroleum products in 2011. Drilling now, drilling there – blah blah blah is not solution at all. The ONLY ONLY cause for the rise in gas prices right now is raw speculation (the hopes of greedy hedge funds that we really do light up Iran) with a desire to hurt President Obama.
Destroying the environment more and in more places will serve no purpose other to create mo tax breaks for foreign corporations like Shel, BP and Amico.
One is left to wonder if you are a bad liar or just incredibly stupid.
jenn
@Veritas: You do realize that there can be good reasons for not developing an oilfield, right? The time it takes to develop an oil field has never been the point in any discussion about drilling in ANWR – it’s a rebuttal to the “drill here + drill now –> nirvana” argument you lot always bring to the table. Have you ever been to ANWR? It’s one of the most spectacular places on earth. There are places worth saving. It is one of them.
WyldPirate
@Veritas:
C’mon Veritas, you’re not even trying to be honest.
Gas prices are low in the US compared to many places
Veritas
@kdaug:
Then how come China didn’t want the Keystone XL Pipeline built and are ecstatic that we rejected it? This means more Chinese influence over Canada and a loss for the US, in addition to lost jobs and higher oil prices. Stephen Harper was snubbed by Obambi, and that’s not good for America.
We need to lower prices as much as possible, and that means drill, drill, drill. ANWR, the tar sands, open up more national park land and offshroe drilling sites, too.
Or we COULD give more money to Solyndra. That’ll lower energy prices. Ha. hahahah. hahahahahah!
Mutaman
Melissa Harris-Perry: Isn’t she the one who said that if we ever criticised President Obama, we were racists?
Veritas
@WyldPirate:
Piss off, ant-semite.
Chyron HR
@Veritas:
Why isn’t Space God Moroni doing anything about Romney’s plummeting poll ratings?
Or have you swept Romney down the same memory hole your last Messiah, Pawlenty, went into?
Amir Khalid
In happier news, Brighton scored four goals in a fifth-round FA Cup tie at Liverpool’s Anfield Stadium. Three of those were own goals, so Liverpool are now through to the sixth round, having beaten Brighton 6-1.
Veritas
@jenn:
I’ve seen photos. Looks like a frozen wasteland to me.
RSA
Coincidentally, this is the Republican view on contraception and health care policy.
Mark S.
Quite a 48 hours for British heavyweight Derrick Chisora. First, he slapped his opponent, Vitali Klitschko, at the weigh-in. Then, in the actual fight, he gave Klitschko the toughest bout anyone’s given him or his brother in years (Klitschko and his younger brother have dominated heavyweight boxing for the last several years). Then, to top it all off, Chisora got in a fight with another boxer at the press conference and ended up getting arrested.
Veritas
@Chyron HR:
Nice try, but you’re not getting me off-topic.
I’m discussing gas prices and oil drilling.
M-pop
Really enjoying both Up With Chris Hayes and Melissa Harris-Perry and wish both a long and happy career. I used to watch Sunday shows because they were stupid and shouty, but now I watch these shows because they are smart.
Schlemizel
@Dumbfuck:
BTW – lair that calls itself truth, hows that Willard thing working out for you? Last I heard from you it included assurance that Willard was going to sweep 3 state contests, then well, 2 out of 3 and finally (within a matter of a couple of hours) a flat out money in the bank guarantee of a victory in Colorado.
Does it hurt to be that stupid, or does it pay well?
Veritas
@RSA:
I could care less about contraception. In fact it should be put into the water supply in certain neighborhoods so we have fewer welfare babies.
Veritas
@Schlemizel:
This thread is about gas prices, and how their skyrocketing price is going to impact Obambi due to his (lack of) energy policy.
Martin
@Amir Khalid:
Wait, what? Three own goals. And these guys get paid to do this?
Life is unfair.
Nutella
@schrodinger’s cat:
They like to wear things that look and are expensive. Long silk dresses and lacy pinafores are a sign of high rank in the Catholic church. Mere laymen should avoid glitter, though. (Contrast message with fashion statements in the photos here.)
Yutsano
@Veritas:
Higher gas tax and stop chasing a rapidly dwindling resource. Next?
Schlemizel
@Moranus:
Oh look! The thing that mislabels itself as truth is capable of learning from others mistakes!!
You learn reeeel gooooood from troll errors why not try to learn something from 40 years of neo-con mistakes?
Thor Heyerdahl
@Veritas: Veritas stupri excors!
Veritas
@Yutsano:
You want Obambi to campaign for HIGHER gas prices? Oh please oh please oh pleeeaaaaaassseeee not since Jimmy Carter lectured us about our thermostats, or since Mondale not only said he might but *promised* to raise taxes in his campaign have I seen such an utter failure.
WyldPirate
i@Veritas:
I’m not going anywhere.
Schlemizel
@Dumb as F’ing shit:
except you have not responded to the actual facts – you know the verifiable truth that has been pointed out in response.
Respond to them & we can engage you in a conversation but you can’t.
Cermet
@Veritas: You are either stupid or a troll – drilling a new field takes years; bringing in a few successful wells to fully map out the best areas a number more, and finally, drilling enough wells to tap and create a good return even more – timeline: 5 – 12 years. You may be stupid but being a troll is what you are acting like.
As for the pipe-line from the tar sands, that will not increase production at all. It will lower delivery cost (which is great for Canada, little for us), yes, but as one person pointed out, current prices are not related to demand and as a true asswipe, you referance Stalin proves you are an ass.
Veritas
What if gas prices are $6/gallon in the fall? Seven dollars? How would everyone feel about Obambi’s chances then? So far I see advice for him to (1) campaign for a higher gas tax and (2) tell us how cheap it is by world standards and (3) tell us just to suck it up and get used to expensive energy because argle bargle peak oil global warming bargle.
Do any of you morons think that would actually work in a campaign? Did some of you guys advise Mondale and Dukakis or something?
Andrew Abshier
Let’s review: if we drill now, and all of the wells are viable (never a sure bet) it’s going to be 10 years from the time those wells are tapped to getting them to full production. TEN YEARS. Then, the gas prices might be lowered by 20 or 30 cents a gallon. Doesn’t seem like much of a bargain to me.
I still find it odd that in the face of REDUCED demand for petroleum products in the U.S. at least that prices are going up. The Republican so-called solution is anything but.
Veritas
@Cermet:
Are you saying Stalin DIDN’T blame his problems on “hoarders”, “speculators”, and “saboteur”? He even said his opposition was trying to sabotage the Soviet economy. Sounds familiar?
Chyron HR
@Veritas:
Then you would jerk off, because you desperately WANT gas to be six or seven dollars a gallon.
This is what Republicans call “loving America”.
Veritas
@Chyron HR:
No, I want low, low gas prices. The only people on this thread calling for higher prices are liberals and “progressives”.
In fact, “progressives” *desire* scarce and expensive energy, because then big government can control and ration its use, which is their wet dream. It’s the whole purpose behind the Warmist Cult.
Chyron HR
@Veritas:
Is that what self-proclaimed “progressive” Mitt Romney said?
some guy
VICTORY!
pseudonymous in nc
I’m pie-filtering the minimum-wage paid troll, but I’ll just note that the big oil companies have leases that they could drill, but choose not to; and that there’s a finite number of a) oil rigs; b) sufficiently qualified riggers, and a waiting list to use them.
Perhaps the minimum-wage paid troll thinks that the earth has a creamy hydrocarbon core?
pseudonymous in nc
I’m pie-filtering the minimum-wage paid troll, but I’ll just note that the big oil companies have leases that they could drill, but choose not to; and that there’s a finite number of a) oil rigs; b) sufficiently qualified riggers, and a waiting list to use them.
Perhaps the minimum-wage paid troll thinks that the earth has a creamy hydrocarbon core?
some guy
VICTORY!
Amir Khalid
@Martin:
Well, defender Liam Bridcutt’s two own goals were attempts to block a header from Glen Johnson and a shot by Stevie Gerrard. Only Lewis Dunk’s OG was an out-and-out brain fart: he intercepted a cross, and with just three touches miscontrolled the ball right into his own net.
toujoursdan
50 years from now, people will look at Carter’s energy/conservation policies and call them visionary.
So I’ll play for a moment. The U.S. Department of the Interior estimates that there are 21 billion barrels of oil on and offshore. This [b]includes[/b] a USGS estimate of between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels of technically recoverable crude oil in ANWR.
The U.S. economy uses 12 million barrels of oil [b]every day.[/b] (The world economy uses 89 million barrels of oil every day.)
So let’s do the maths. Assuming every bit of is recoverable (which it isn’t.):
21 billion/12 million = 1750 days of oil = 4.79 years.
But since Jezus is coming any minute now, that’s good enough for right-wingers.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Bwahahahahahha! Seriously, guys, I hope Obambi uses this line. America will just LOVE being lectured to turn down our thermostats by an elitist prick like BO.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
They will when we run out of economically recoverable oil and are shivering in the dark.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Chicken little “progressive” is being chicken little. You’re no different than the rapture-ready Christians you make fun of with your hysterical predictions of ZOMG PEAK OIL!
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Also, you forgot about a little secret–
C-O-A-L. Four centuries worth, just in this country. Black, sooty, dirty, carbony-COAL.
TuiMel
Probably in minority but not a fan of MHP – nothing agaist her; just found her hard to listen to for an entire hour when she subs for Rachel or lawrence. Chris Hayes Up, OTH, is a favorite. I have to record it, but I find it very worthwhile.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Veritas:
Congress can act to end or curtail speculation in the gas and oil markets any time they want. Additionally, they could even pass some sort of nationalist bill that forbids “US gas” from being sold to foreign countries.
Or they could do nothing and use high gas prices as a political issue. Which scenario do you prefer?
some guy
@pseudonymous in nc:
Oil drilling leases that are not being used? Overall there are 6,573 such permits currently on the books.
Shorter Oil Industry:
Drill Sometime In The Future
Drill Whenever We Feel Like It
Drill When It Is Most profitable to Our Shareholders.
but having useful idiots like the MittensBot spewing lies helps the bottom line, too.
Veritas
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I see you agree that it’s a winning issue for the GOP. Glad we agree.
toujoursdan
So you honestly think we’ll never run out of oil? Do you think it’s made in some factory somewhere? God you are dumb.
We live in a finite planet with finite resources. Our corporate capitalist economy only works in a cycle of growth. At some point we’ll run out. The more growth, the faster that hard limit hits us.
(It still doesn’t change the fact that there are only 4.79 years with of recoverable oil in the entire U.S.)
FlipYrWhig
@pseudonymous in nc: Hey, oil companies love to undertake massive new projects that result in their making less money on their product. They’re known for their altruism.
Chyron HR
@Veritas:
I think we can trust this guy’s predictions of the future. I bet he learned this stuff from some magical golden plates or something.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
You can’t run an economy on coal. The cost to turn it into oil is prohibitive.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Really? You’re still into the “Limits to Growth” stuff? Do you also wear polyester and listen to 8-track tapes of the Village People, too?
You do realize that the hysterical predictions made in the 1970s were, um wrong, right?
Soonergrunt
@Cermet:
It’s both. Save your breath.
boss bitch
Why the hell do you guys keep engaging Veritas?! He just copies lies he got from redstate and like the little attention whore that he is, plants it here and WHAM! you all give him the entire thread. Enough already!
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
You can run power plants on coal.
What else do you think we’re going to charge electric cars with once they’re economically viable? Power plants fed with Carbon-Free Solyndra Magic Unicorn Dust?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Veritas:
No, I actually think it’s a losing issue for Republicans. If they were powerless to do anything, then yes, it would probably be a winning issue for them. But they control Congress and have legislative and oversight powers to affect the situation.
WyldPirate
@Veritas:
Define low..$3/ gal, $2/gal or should the US gevernment subsidize it like Venezuala and Iraq do?
And lets not forget the continuous US military presence in the Persian Gulf region for 20+ Years has in effect been a subsidy of oil prices.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
“Limits of Growth” didn’t make date driven predictions. Nice try though.
Suffern ACE
Went to see the secret life of arriety. What was the name of that very similar series of books where the borrowers had tails?
Joey Maloney
@Veritas:
Your troll mask is slipping. Actually, isn’t it stuffy wearing a hood underneath it?
boss bitch
I’m actually impressed with MHP. I stopped watching cable news and cable news shows 3 years ago. She and Rev. Al might MIGHT just bring me back.
Veritas
Toujoursdan, circa 1820:
“You have to read Malthus! We’re going to all run out of food soon! It’s based on SCIENCE!
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Oh for fuck sake.
You can’t run road transport on coal. You can’t fly aeroplanes on coal. You can’t power agricultural equipment on coal.
Amir Khalid
@Veritas:
Even now, people are already cursing Ronald Reagan’s memory because, instead of continuing Carter’s energy policies, he aborted them — thus extending and exacerbating America’s dependence on imported oil from politically unstable countries, and leaving it needlessly beholden to the less than savory characters leading those countries.
Cermet
@Veritas: You still have avoided answeing the simple fact that current demmand has gone down but prices have gone up. Until you explain what President Obama can do to prevent that and what drilling or the keystone project can do, you are full of it and are a worthless troll.
That stupid asswipe remark on my part was me being such and was not meant to be included in the post … my applogies about that – that was uncalled for (I thought I deleted that but the reference to being an ass part, through was intended… .)
gnomedad
We’re running out of oil. Full stop. Short-term volatility aside, the long-term trend is up. The Invisible Hard will drive it up. That’s how it fucking works. It will not pull more cheap oil out of its Invisible Ass.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
I have. You evidently didn’t.
He said that we would if there weren’t inputs (technology, etc.) that would change the calculus.
It takes 10 oz of oil to make 1 oz of food and transport it to market. What happens when the cost of oil becomes prohibitive because of your wasteful policies?
Hill Dweller
The troll has yet to explain why gas prices have increased so much in the last few months. It certainly isn’t due to a drop in domestic oil production and/or increase in domestic demand.
Veritas
Here’s just a start to some famous failed energy crisis predictions from the Chicken Little enviroweenie crowd:
Start here, here, and here.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Give it up. You’re not going to get your sick totalitarian wet dream of a big, central government rationing out energy cards. I know that’s what you want, and you’re under the illusion you’ll get to be one of the technocratic elite, but it’s not happening.
Chyron HR
Veritas, circa November 8, 2011:
“Issue 3 will pass. The Personhood Amendmet down in Mississippi will pass. VICTORY!”
(Except in his case he probably still thinks these things actually happened.)
Just Some Fuckhead
@gnomedad: I know you mean well but every time you trot out “peak oil”, yer just providing cover for the parasitic overclass that is picking our pockets at the pump.
Try to be a little smarter about it.
gelfling545
@schrodinger’s cat: It is just traditional garb from the days when Bishop was the equivalent of nobility in rank and were not infrequently appointed by or with the consent of kings. ((It was considered a good job for a king’s younger brother.) I guess they want to keep their clothing as up to date as their ideas.
If you refer to the long, white, lacy thing around the neck it is a stole which is supposed to signify the priestly office.
Peter
@Veritas: Where’s more oil going to come from, you smegma-faced clown fart?
Veritas
toujoursdan
So?
Do you understand what a logical fallacy is? Getting the dates wrong doesn’t mean it won’t happen at all.
Explain where an infinite supply of oil that will power our economy will come from? Do you think it’s created by nature (at 89 million barrels a day)? If so, how exactly?
TooManyJens
@Mutaman:
No, but she was the one who was misrepresented as having said that.
@TuiMel:
I don’t like her as much in the pre-scripted segments; she’s felt stiff to me the times she’s subbed for Rachel, but that will probably improve with experience. I have been really impressed with her as an interviewer, and as someone who can think on her feet when news is happening during the live show.
FlipYrWhig
Yes, failed predictions can be embarrassing, can’t they?
SIA
@JPL, if you see this, I wanted to express my condolences to your family regarding your mother in law. A wonderful age she was.
Yutsano
@Peter: UNICORNZ!!
Or Jeebus riding a dinosaur. One of the two.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
When will The Great Reckoning occour, toujoursdan? Are you already getting a stiffie at the thought of mass starvation and mass unemployment, followed by central government rationing? I know that’s your sick wet dream.
SiubhanDuinne
@Veritas:
This thread is a fucking Open Thread, you ignorant fuckwad asswipe.
WyldPirate
@toujoursdan: @toujoursdan:
Sure you can through coal gasification and other processes. Probably can’t produce enough volume to support consumption rates today, but it can be done
sb
@Veritas: There are those who believe that here at Balloon Juice, contrary opinions are met with unnecessary invective, that groupthink takes over and the individual person expressing the contrary opinion gets ‘ganged up’ on and that this reflects badly on the site and its users.
But with regard to your post, other than “fuck off, asshole”, what else should be said in response? So, Veritas, while recognizing you have an opinion and recognizing that your comment is probably just a bad joke to piss off those of a different political bent, I teach a lot of kids you blithely call “welfare babies” and I’ll take the character and integrity of those kids and their families over you any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I mean, who could say such a thing? Assholes, that’s who.
So, fuck off, asshole.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
BTW, we continue to discover more oil and natural gas every year through exploration, Chicken Little predictions not withstanding.
The tar sands and the North Dakota oil fields are a blessing and a boon for everyone involved. Of course not for you. Because you hate cheap energy, because cheap energy means no big central government to direct and ration use.
The Great Proletarian Revolution didn’t quite pan out so now the international left is hoping for a Communist revolution based on environmental problems.
some guy
southern Beale
The Borrowers is the novel/film the new Miyazaki film is based on.
trollhattan
Jesus, somebody take away this guy’s giant, giant can ‘o Folgers. He’s waving around this shiny new (i.e., decades old) Republican talking point as though he’s strutting into TGI Fridays with a supermodel on his arm.
It’s…unseemly.
WaterGirl
@handsmile: And you are very funny this morning! I mean, like, totally. :-)
I did like Jeff Greenfield’s “arthur murray ballroom dance” analogy as an explanation for mittens. Other than that, he seemed like the blah blah blah old white guy on the show, which (thankfully) we don’t see very often.
On the other hand, I really liked Wallace Shawn and loved the clip they showed from murphy brown. Yikes, that had to hurt if you were a politician seeing your reality exposed like that.
Absolutely loved Alexis Goldstein from Occupy the SEC. That was inspirational.
I had the thought last week that if some terrible even occurred in this country, the TV person I would want to hear it from would be Chris Hayes. For me, he is the new Walter Cronkite.
Just this morning I was thinking how he is the anti-Fluffy, and how awesome it would be if MTP could go back to being a panel-based show, with Chris Hayes, Rachel and Harris-Perry on the panel. As it is, I haven’t watched a Sunday show (except UP) since Fluffy took over.
some guy
man is this troll stupid. It was North Dakota REPUBLICANS who helped kill Keystone XL.
keep flailing, dimwit
gnomedad
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Villains may be picking our pockets, but defeating them, while worthwhile, will not affect the long-term reality that energy is going to be more expensive. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
When it happens it will be a tragedy, which is why I think we should have followed Carter’s energy policies and started a national conservation program and transition to alternative energies back in the 1970s, instead of doing nothing.
Now about those 4.79 years worth of crude oil on American soil. How exactly will drill everywhere lead you to nirvana?
And if there are no limits to oil production, how is this infinite supply of oil created? Care to respond in detail or will you continue to dodge?
gnomedad
Shorter Veritas: Gosh, the bottle is bigger than we realized! We can keep drinking out of it forever!
Cain
@Veritas:
I can imagine the shit eating grin while typing that comment.
S. cerevisiae
Veritas is obviously not smarter than yeast.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
The discoveries of oil and natural gas have been in decline since the 1960s, even with new technology.
Exxon Mobil: Rate of World Discovery
Keep digging…
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Read it and weep, slaver.
some guy
@FlipYrWhig:
funny how the VICTORY troll was curiously absent after the South Carolina primary. doubt he’ll be around much after the Michigan primary, either.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES! SKY IS FALLING! ONLY THE GREAT GREEN CENTRAL PEOPLE’S GOVERNMENT WILL SAVE US!
Veritas
There is no finite supply of oil.
Soonergrunt
@some guy:
Along with Kansas republicans and Nebraska republicans. It seems people from agricultural states don’t want millions of barrels of toxic wastes transported over the land on which they make their living. And especially the ND republicans who don’t want a pipeline from Canada undercutting the value the oil in North Dakota.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
ROFL. Oh yes. The Young Earth Creationism of energy. Find a real petroleum engineer who believes this crap. Dare ya.
The first line of your link says it all:
Abiogenic petroleum origin is a largely abandoned hypothesis that was proposed as an alternative to theory of biological petroleum origin.
Try reading for comprehension.
Cain
@Cermet:
The guy is a troll. He’s enjoying all the attention y’all are giving him. Every response is a victory. Why do you people not learn? He’s not even a real conservative. He’s just googling shit on the internet to post on here.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Facts are inconvenient things, aren’t they.
Ella in New Mexico
@Veritas:
No you DO want higher gas prices—regardless of what they do to the average American—because you stooopidly think that no one will figure out what’s going on and therefore blame it on Obama and vote for Santurdum or Gangreeenich or Rump Roast instead.
And this is because, like all core Republicans, you are a sociopath who would drown his own grandmother in the bathtub in order to win an election—but doesn’t give a rats ass about actually governing.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
And it was all those Real Scientists(tm) who said we’d be shivering in the dark by 1990.
What’s your solution? Let me guess: it involves central planning and rationing.
Jennifer
@Veritas: Yeah, that’s why only the dumb geologists believe in your horseshit theory:
That’s from your link, troll.
some guy
@Soonergrunt:
his employers forgot to tell the troll about all the Republican opposition to Keystone in the Upper Midwest. oopsie
Veritas
@Jennifer:
Yes, and Most Geologists(tm) said we’d run out of oil by 1995.
I don’t believe these horseshit predictions and estimates, because they’ve turned out to be seriously off in the past.
Soonergrunt
@Veritas: pssst–the earth is spherical. It’s a closed vessel. Once we use up the oil inside the earth, there’s none left after that. Oil is not the renewable resource that Larry Kudlow’s cocaine is.
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
Since this is allegedly an open thread, I will post this very pressing political question:
Is it normal to have to RSVP to a wedding a full four months before the blessed day? That seems excessive.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
All? You named one.
Veritas’ logic: The sun hasn’t burned out yet, so it never ever will.
Cain
@boss bitch:
Don’t bother, what we want is a destruction of corporate media. Your eyeballs still pays to keep the other lunatics salary.
Die media, die.
gnomedad
@Jennifer:
Plus, it doesn’t ultimately matter where petroleum comes from; if we use it faster than it’s being created, we will run out.
Veritas
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago):
Is it a Gay Wedding?
some guy
@Soonergrunt:
too technical, you will have to explain to the troll what “spherical” means.
Peter
@Veritas: Ooh, a discredited hypothesis that never made any accurate predictions! The solution to all our problems!
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Yes, so getting a date wrong this means that oil is infinite and will last forever! Hummers for everyone.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Yes, silly me, I look at past failed predictions and make conclusions from them. I guess because armageddeon hasn’t come YET that doesn’t mean I should automatically discount the Jehova’s Witnesses. It’ll come SOMEDAY!
Veritas
And still waiting for your prefered solution to the “problem”. I’m guessing it involved central planning, a government-run economy, and government rationing. Surprise, surprise–the same things the left always wants. Energy and the environment is just a fig-leaf for the same goals you’ve had since 1848.
Just Some Fuckhead
@gnomedad: We’ll never be able to stop them from stealing from us as long as you peak oil idiots keep shitting yourselves every time they pull off a short term heist.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
I know. In your world, oil grows on rocks, forever!
Hummers for everyone!
Yutsano
Things I learned randomly on the internet today: Nathan Fillon is Canuckistani.
Just when I couldn’t get even more jealous of RedKitteh…
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): Either the espoused are extremely organized to the point of anal retentiveness or they’re planning on a cost that needs an exact headcount this far out. My guess is the latter.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
I’ll fire up the ‘ol GMC Yukon in your honor, slaver.
Hill Dweller
Still waiting on the troll to explain the recent increase in gas prices, despite no increase in domestic demand nor decrease in domestic production.
Cain
@boss bitch:
It’s because it is cheap entertainment. It’s like playing whack-a-mole at a showbiz pizza place. The guy moves from topic to topic as soon as he loses ground in one.
It only makes the responder stupid when they engage this guy. On the other hand, nothing else is going on this thread. I remember when we had real conservatives showing up and try to argue, that was fun. This guy has no convictions. You can’t even smack him around.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Yes, and the environment is so much better than it was in 1848 (except that it isn’t.)
And I haven’t said anything about central planning. That’s your red herring, sweatpea.
Soonergrunt
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): That depends upon several factors. How big of a ceremony and reception are being planned? I can bet that if the Bride’s family is trying to get close approximations of costs for facility size, catering, etc; that four months just might be right. Particularly for invitees who are expected to be part of the Wedding Party.
trollhattan
@Soonergrunt:
fxt
Veritas
@Hill Dweller:
I’ll be sure to increase my personal consumption as much as possible, if nothing more than to piss off slaver, totalitarian shitheads like the PEEAAAK OIIIIL!11!1 crowd.
some guy
Shorter MiitensBot Troll: I demand you answer my poorly framed question, and if you don’t then I win.
maybe he should go back to predicting VICTORY for Mittens, at least he will definitely win something, some day, somewhere.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Uh, seriously? You don’t think air quality in London and Pittsburgh is any better than the 19th Century, for example?
Jennifer
@Veritas: Just because in 40 years oil reserves that were previously undiscovered have been found doesn’t mean that it was magically produced in those 40 years. People just went looking for it in places where it’s harder to get to – places they didn’t need to look in before when the easy-to-extract reserves were meeting demand.
Riddle me this, dipshit – if your theory is correct, how come Oklahoma isn’t a big oil-producing state like it was back in the 20s & 30s? If oil is constantly being produced by magical physical rather than biological earth forces, how come places that have been tapped out remain tapped out?
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Because conservatism has no ideas or solutions and doesn’t give a shit about the next generation. It’s all about hippie punching.
Roxie
Pie filter overload
Veritas
Oh, and I don’t care about the environment. That’s right–I don’t give a shit about the environment, at least not the environment because its the environment.
The earth has been around billions of years and will do just fine.
I care about us. Caribou and polar bears can fuck off and die for all I care.
S. cerevisiae
Shorter troll – party on,dudes!
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Sure. Because all the dirty stuff was outsourced to the 3rd world. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it has gone away.
Now what about deforestation, desertification, pollution in the developing world, poisoning of groundwater, pollution of the oceans, collapse of the fisheries, poisoning of prime farmland from the overuse of fertilizers, eroding top soil, draining of the aquifers in the west, etc.
trollhattan
@Veritas:
They’d welcome your input at The Oil Drum.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Tell us your solution, Oh High and Mighty Carer of the Next Generation.
Some of you guys seriously need to get a real religion. You’re not atheists, you just believe in the utopian Leftist Religion of the moment. For a while it was Communism, now its Environmentalism. You even have your own special eschatology and apocalypse (The Glorious Proletarian World Revolution leading us towards Communism in one case, Peak Oil leading us to The Green Economy in the other).
some guy
by “us” the troll means the 1% who rule the world and steal from the other 99%.
this is why Mittens VICTORY is assured.
sorry to state the obvious.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
The earth didn’t carry a global civiliation of 7 billion people billions of years ago.
Veritas
Clearly, human beings need to 1) have a mass die off or 2) go back to before the industrial revolution or 3) some combination of both, amirite?
Cain
@Roxie:
It’s sad that this thread as come to this. Victory belongs to Veritas regardless of how you argue with him.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Well, you can stop hurting the environment right now in that case, toujoursdan: go do your duty to the Earth Goddess and off yourself.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
I’ve already explained it.
Now, tell us about how oil grows on rocks, oh abiogenic one.
Veritas
Oh, and now we’re back to The Population Bomb? This is like a 1970s Greatest Hits album.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suffern ACE:
Are you thinking of Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH by any chance? It was made into a very good animated film called The Secret of NIMH although for some reason they changed Mrs. Frisby’s name to Mrs. Brisby. There are some similarities with The Borrowers.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: I’d rather off ignorant, wasteful idiots like you.
Hill Dweller
@Veritas: Your pettiness and vindictiveness were established long ago. No one disputes that at this point. But you still haven’t explained why gas prices have risen so sharply in the last few months, despite no domestic rise in demand nor drop in domestic production.
Jennifer
@Veritas: You can’t care about “us” as in “humanity” (though I’m not sure we should include you in that category) without caring about the environment. If you completely shit the nest, Newt’s moon colony isn’t going to save you or anyone else.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Scratch a leftist, find a genocidal maniac. You WANT a mass die-off, don’t you?
some guy
@Cain:
Thread police gots to police.
We all heard you, the first seven times.
RSA
@toujoursdan:
You just lost the wingnut contingent there. (Also, they tend not to trust non-U.S. calculations. But nice job!)
S. cerevisiae
@Veritas: You do know that YOU also have to live in this environment, but you likely have no kids or grandkids so like I said it’s all “party on dudes!”
I met plenty of people like you when I was younger, most of them got better.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
All I want are vindictive morans [sic] like you to do die off. Are you going to make my day? :-)
Veritas
@S. cerevisiae:
Uh, I do actually have two grown children.
Of course if toujoursdan got his way we’d have a China-esque one child policy complete with forced abortions and mandatory sterilizations.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Do your duty to Mother Earth. Kill yourself in a carbon-neutral manner. And get as many environmentalists to go with you.
If you really believed your own horseshit, that’s what you’d do.
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
@Yutsano: @Soonergrunt:
Mmm, you make excellent points. I think the invite list is going to be between 200 and 300 people? Which would mean an actual guest list of about 150-225. That seems like a huge wedding to me (mine had a whopping 65 attendees) but I don’t know if it’s huge according to the standards of the Wedding Industrial Complex.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: You first, sweatpea.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
And shouldn’t you turn off your computer? You’re contributing to Global Warming the longer you leave it on! Think of the polar bears!
some guy
you do realize that Mickey and Minnie are imaginary characters, don’t you?
some guy
he was assured there would be no math involved.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Glad you’ve stopped actually denying the facts and are left with spittle flecked ad hominums.
trollhattan
@some guy:
Not fair, I just cleaned this damn keyboard!
Jennifer
@Veritas: Oh, fuck you. You’ve spent this whole thread making vile and unfounded accusations that wouldn’t even make sense to a stupid person. No one has even said anything about population control, and here you are now accusing people of supporting forced abortions and mandatory sterilization.
You’re the equivalent of the toddler who scoops up his own poop to play with it and smears it all over the walls. Not even bright enough to figure out that all you’re accomplishing is making yourself smell like shit.
Veritas
toujoursdan probably burns down car dealerships and firebombs new home developments in his spare time.
Ken
@Veritas: He’s going to nationalize the oil companies. Happy now?
Veritas
@Jennifer:
Oh no, he didn’t SAY anything about it…he just heavily implied it with the 7 billion people remark. He doesn’t have the balls to follow his beliefs to their logical conclusion, or at least doesn’t have the balls to state what that conclusion is.
If you really believe the Earth can’t support 7 billion people, if you honestly believe that, then the only solution is to cull billions of people while sterilizing a good portion of the rest.
Jennifer
@Veritas: Yeah? Well we know what you do with your time, CaCa Boy.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
It is a victory when I’ve reduced the village idiot to rocking in the corner, sucking his thumb and ranting about what he think dirty hippies do.
(All I mentioned was Carter’s conservation policy and transitioning to alternatives. The rest is YOUR projection.)
some guy
from the reviews I have read the Miyazaki film is based on “The Borrowers” movie, but is a closer adaptation of the original novel.
Veritas
There’s another solution, if you accept his logic: cosign whoever is left to a life of grinding, pre-industrial poverty.
Of course he’ll never come out and say these things, but he’s little enviroweenie coward and he knows his ideas are unpopular among anyone who doesn’t hate humanity like he does.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Because it isn’t the logical conclusion, snookums.
Peter
Cole can we finally get a ban on this shitstain for encouraging suicide?
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Ok, so since the Earth can’t support 7 billion people (and not just 7 billion people living an industrialized, developed lifestyle, but AT ALL) what do we do about it?
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Sustainability and preindustrial poverty are two completely different things, pookie.
some guy
well, firebombing new home developments would certainly be one way to get the housing crisis under control.
Veritas
@Peter:
LOL I’ve been banned about 20 times. I always come back.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Where did I say that the earth can’t sustain 7 billion people at all?
schrodinger's cat
@gelfling545: Is that why the cardinals are called the princes of the church.
some guy
Veritas,
was the college tuition for little Mickie and Minnie very high, or did they get an all-expenses free ride to Hamburger University?
do you visit them on their days off down at the Magic Kingdom?You must be ever so proud of all they have accomplished.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
FTFY.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Is that the best you’ve got? Lame.
Jennifer
@Veritas: No, asswipe, that’s NOT the “only solution”, though thanks for once again proving that conservatives are so dim-witted that they can’t conceive of any new ideas.
We could cut population world-wide by offering people who agree to have only one child certain things – incentives like “if you only have one, we’ll provide education & healthcare for that one. If you have more than one, you’re on your own.” People would still have the freedom to choose to have more than one but a fair number would agree to the one-only policy voluntarily.
Of course we can’t do that, because first of all it would require spending some of the money that Paris Hilton needs to keep so she can buy another $40,000 handbag on the “parasites” and at the same time, would reduce the size of the workforce leaving corporations with less power over workers. Which is why Republicans were so tempted by the birth control crap – more people than jobs tends to work in the favor of corporations and the people who own them.
Veritas
Who is going to make sure everyone is living a “sustainable” lifestyle?
toujoursdan
Now about those 4.79 years worth of crude oil on American soil. How exactly will drill now, drill everywhere lead us to nirvana?
And if there are no limits to oil production, how is this infinite supply of oil created? Care to explain how oil grows on rocks?
trollhattan
@Peter:
This one alone should do the trick. Very BOBish.
@Veritas:
some guy
Who is going to make sure everyone is living a “sustainable” lifestyle?
Why the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, naturally. who else would, or could?
Veritas
@some guy:
I know you’re think you’re making fun of me, but this is essentially what the greenies want. Of course it would be called something else, but the idea is similar.
Ration. Plan. Control.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Tax and economic incentives for smaller families (or not having kids at all), economic incentives for urban farming, real recycling, repair instead of throw away, are certainly a good start.
some guy
making fun of a clown isn’t hard.
VICTORY!
toujoursdan
Are you going to explain how exactly will drill now, drill everywhere lead us to nirvana when there are only 4.79 years of oil on American soil?
And if there are no limits to oil production, how is this infinite supply of oil created? Care to explain how oil grows on rocks?
Or are you going to continue to dodge this in the cowardly way we have become accustomed to?
Veritas
This is exactly who the Chinese One Child Policy started. It ended with forced abortions, infanticide, and mandatory sterilizations. How “progressive”.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Veritas:
Do “the greenies” want to put contraceptives in the water as a means of population control?
Veritas
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I was making a joke. Lighten up.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
We’re not Chinese and we already use tax and economic incentives to create social goods. Providing grants and loans to go to university hasn’t led to forced higher education yet.
Soonergrunt
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): Mine had two guests, and I didn’t know either of them. The minister had to call a neighbor over to sign the marriage license as witness with his wife. I’d given the minister my last $40, so we had KFC that night in the hotel on her credit card.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
No, but I’m sure you admire their One Child Policy.
WyldPirate
@Peter: ban him for encouraging suicide? Are you kidding?
whiny-ass titty baby screams for blog daddy cuz conservative shows up and makes pathetic argument. Unbelievable.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Veritas:
Sorry, I care about us.
Amir Khalid
@Veritas:
I followed your NRO link. Larry Kudlow says there’s maybe a trillion barrels of oil still in the ground worldwide. Using tojoursdan’s numbers from #76, that would mean the world has
1 trillion bbl / 89 million bpd = 112,356 days = roughly 300 years
which, even if true, is not infinite.
But Kudlow’s not a geologist himself, and for all we know that might just be a wild guess. Maybe Kudlow pulled that very optimistic estimate from Uranus or his, I don’t know.
some guy
Just because Our VICTORY Clown thinks oil grows on rocks is no reason to chide him. Nor mock him for his innumeracy, his fictional grown children, or his unwavering belief in all things Mittens.
clearly, your membership in the Obambi-Stalin Fan Club has twisted your sense of decency and humanity.
Veritas
@WyldPirate:
I didn’t even “encourage” suicide, I was taking the chicken little crowd’s dumb ass logic to its obvious conclusion: humanity is a blight on the planet and must die for Mother Earth.
SiubhanDuinne
@Veritas:
Not unlike the intestinal flu that’s been going around.
Jennifer
@Veritas: No, liar, the Chinese policy was always one of DISincentives. Punishment for breaking the rule rather than incentive for adopting it voluntarily.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Now, care to explain how oil grows on rocks?
dmsilev
@Veritas: The first fucking sentences of that link: “Abiogenic petroleum origin is a largely abandoned hypothesis that was proposed as an alternative to theory of biological petroleum origin. It was relatively popular in the past, but it became largely forgotten at the end of the 20th century after it failed to predict the location of new wells.[1]”
Troll fail.
Do you think we’ll ever reach Peak Troll?
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Who said that?
Conservatives are so simple minded. Everything is binary thinking: If it isn’t black, it must be white. No wonder they’ve run out of ideas and are left having temper tantrums when their talking points fall apart.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Maybe it does maybe it doesn’t.
Who cares? Go back to the 70s, aging hippie.
Veritas
And both you and Jennifer do realize that the population of the Earth is going to decline naturally by the middle of this century?
Cassidy
Beautiful Sunday afternoon.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Well obviously you care, since you posted it. So care to explain it?
chopper
jesus, abiotic oil. I needed a laff.
Jennifer
@Veritas: In a lot of ways humanity IS a blight on the planet, and it will die for Mother Earth if it comes to that.
I don’t have any concern for the Earth but I do have a concern with for an Earth conducive to human habitation, which we can control one way or the other. If we choose to just go on without giving any thought to it, the Earth will wipe us out and go on. It will survive. We won’t.
Veritas
I think if oil is finite we’ll survive just as we survived Peak Wood and Peak Whale Blubber–by a combination of market-driving technology and increasing efficiency.
Roxie
I bet VERITAS thinks he’s done some real important stuff today
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
LOL, I posted it because it was an easy troll. Christ, you’re gullible.
SIA
@SIA: On further reading, I would like to relocate my message of condolence to JPL to the next open thread and away from this fucking wasteland of a conversation.
Fuck.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: So you’re either stupid, or you’re a liar. Figures.
Jennifer
@Veritas: I don’t think anyone is predicting a decline, but rather a leveling off and stabilization.
But only an idiot would argue that stabilization at 10 or 12 billion is a better situation than a voluntary decline to 4 or 5 billion. Even the math-impaired should have no problem grasping the concept that with fewer people there’s more resources to go around.
Svensker
@Veritas:
Why do you hate Sarah Palin and her friends so much?
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
@Soonergrunt:
Sounds about perfect. :)
Soonergrunt
@SiubhanDuinne: The symptoms are remarkably similar, no?
Veritas
1. Short term: drilling, increasing efficiency
2. Long-term: Nuclear power and economically viable electric cars
3. Longer-term: Nuclear fusion
Beats having the Green Soviet order you to have a “sustainable” lifestyle.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Except that on a finite planet, there are only finite energy resources.
It’s a fool’s bargain to use up a resource assuming that the next will come along to take its place.
I bet you gamble away your entire paycheque every week too. After all there will always be another.
Soonergrunt
@dmsilev:
Unfortunately no, because troll is a renewable resource.
gnomedad
Limbaugh Logic: If I say something indefensible, I’m “just an entertainer”.
Jennifer
@Soonergrunt: If we could harvest the methane from troll, our energy problems would be over.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Ahhh yes, nuclear power, based on another (even more scarce) finite resource – uranium. Brilliant.
And fusion, which is always just around the corner. Always.
Even if both pan out, where are the electric airplanes and farm equipment?
Jennifer
…where are the electric airplanes…
They’re still working on the technology for really, really long cords.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Except that the issue isn’t how many bodies there are on the planet, but how much each body consumes. An American family of 4 consumes and produces more far waste than a West African family of 20.
So as people adopt western lifestyles (and consumption rates) they may have fewer kids (because kids are expensive in western economies), but each kid will consume several times more finite resources and produce several times more waste than they did before they adopted the industrial lifestyle, so the problem will become worse, rather than better.
That’s why I don’t believe it will just correct itself and tax and economic incentives are needed.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Ever heard of breeder reactors?
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
And if those tax and economic incentives don’t work, there’s always brute force backed by the state.
After all, it will be for our own good. Right?
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Won’t solve the problem since the recycle rate isn’t anywhere near 100%. Definitely won’t solve the problem if the entire planet has to transition to uranium.
Got anything else?
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Nah. Incentives always work if they are sweet enough. That’s what capitalism is all about, right?
Soonergrunt
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): I had inadvertently locked my keys in my truck right before we were supposed to leave the hotel for the minister’s house. We called the Sheriff, and they sent a deputy to unlock the truck with a slim jim. He stated that there must be something about getting married because I was the third guy getting married that day who’d locked his keys in his car, and the second one at that hotel.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
I guess Thorium doesn’t count either because that’s “only” a 1,000 year supply.
Svensker
@Veritas:
How does that fit in with the bishops’ birth control plans?
I really don’t get why you come here. If you were actually desirous of conversation and hoped to change some minds, you wouldn’t start off by saying “Obambi”. So, you’re not serious about engaging…then why are you here? Do you get your rocks off being “shocking”? Do you think you’re speaking truth to power and we’ll all be amazed by your unassailable brilliance and come to our senses? Or that we’ll feel hurt and upset and secretly realize you’re right and feel bad about continuing to be liberals?
Really, what do you feel you’re accomplishing, for yourself or anyone else?
Svensker
@Soonergrunt:
You can unlock trucks with a sausage? Well I never!
toujoursdan
@Veritas: There is a 1,000 supply for the entire world economy to use, or at the usage that exists now?
Kolohe
Things never before heard on a Sunday politics show: “See what happens when you invite a theologian to the table.”
Russert used to have the Archbishop of Washington on all the time, but I guess he wasn’t telling people what they wanted to hear.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Probably could power the whole world for quite a while. Thorium is as common as dirt.
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
@Soonergrunt:
This story keeps getting better and better.
I cannot match it. We just had a smallish backyard wedding at my mom’s house. There was good food, drink, and company. The only noteworthy aspect is that I’d really hoped for an outdoor ceremony, but it was raining most of the day. About an hour before the wedding, the rain stopped, the clouds parted (no joke) and the sun shown down. Half an hour after the ceremony had ended, the rain returned.
WaterGirl
Wow. A quick search gives me 74 comments by veritas and 93 replies that included “@veritas”.
Veritas 1
Balloon Juice 0
Whatever happened to ignoring trolls so they will go away? Has everybody lost their collective minds today?
Somebody might a well front page the guy; at this rate, he already controls what we’re talking about.
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
@Svensker: And really, that’s about the only thing Slim Jims are good for.
Yutsano
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): My parents had exactly two people at their wedding. Interfaith marriage. Neither side ever did warm up to the other. I didn’t really know all this until years later.
Svensker
@WaterGirl:
Just a boring Sunday. Poke the troll, see if any guts come out.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Except that it’s not economical to use, which is why there aren’t Thorium reactors on every street corner. Such reactors take years to build and cost millions (and like nuclear, need taxpayer support.)
So it would make sense to provide incentives to conserve as much oil as possible (as Carter did) and use alternative “green” technology and fuels, at least until the technology advances to make these economically practical, wouldn’t it genius?
But, nope, your solution seems to be “Hummers for everyone because it pisses off hippies. Drill everywhere. It doesn’t matter whether the land is sensitive and drilling won’t change anything. Besides, nothing to worry about here. Oil grows on rocks!”
That’s conservatism for you.
Soonergrunt
@Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago): That is awesome. It’s almost like you were destined to marry on that day, outside at that time.
I didn’t even meet my in-laws until about a year after my son was born. He was conceived on the wedding night and born full term 40 weeks to the day after.
So we get back to the hotel, and call my parents and tell them that we got married. They were completely unsurprised (and had set several things in motion to set up and host a reception the next day) which was amazing considering that I didn’t even think to ask her to marry me until the night before we did it. Apparently we both had this ‘look’ to us. So then I tell my new wife “we have to call your parents” and she told me that there was a problem because she had never even told them that she’d met somebody, let alone that she was taking leave to visit him in Missouri instead of going home to California. So she calls home, and her dad answers and she says “Daddy, there’s someone here who needs to tell you something” and hands me the phone. I just glared at her, but she just looked at me like “what?” and said “There’s no way in hell I’m telling him.” so I cleared my throat and said “Sir, My name is … and yesterday afternoon at 4:30 PM in Kansas City, Missouri, I married your daughter.”
There was dead silence for about ten seconds.
And then he asked “and how do you spell your name?”
My In-laws and I get along famously.
Soonergrunt
@WaterGirl: This is an open thread. Even trolls get to participate.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
There aren’t thorium reactors on every corner because…wait for it…uranium reactors are cheaper right now because uranium has a lower initial cost. In a hypothetical world of decreasing uranium supplies (far off in the future, we’ve already discovered far more uranium than we thought we had) this advantage would lessen.
I know a world of cheap and plentiful energy is your worst nightmare because it threatens your totalitarian wet dream of the Green Soviet, but get used to it. In 200 years we’ll be using petroleum at the rate we currently use firewood and whale blubber, because something better will have replaced it.
sharl
@Soonergrunt:
I don’t know why, but I LOVE stories like this. Thanks for sharing it.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
“There aren’t thorium reactors on every corner because…wait for it…uranium reactors are cheaper right now because uranium has a lower initial cost. In a hypothetical world of decreasing uranium supplies (far off in the future, we’ve already discovered far more uranium than we thought we had) this advantage would lessen.”
——————————————
No kidding. That’s exactly what I said.
But the problem, genius, is that the higher startup and operating cost of this new energy source would be passed on to the customer and ripple and reverberate through the economy making everyone and every company a bit poorer, now wouldn’t it?
Perhaps improving technology would make this cost differential go away, so in the meantime we should conserve oil (as it is still relatively cheap) until thorium is cheap enough to replace oil as a commercially viable energy source and we can retool an entire world economy to run on it (which introduces a list of other problems). Got it this time?
But your response is still “Hummer for everyone! Who cares about economic dislocation later?”
Karl The Crap Blog Detective
@Svensker:
I don’t think it’s a meaningful question. There’s no “why” to it, because it can’t really have anything recognisable as thought or motivation in a way human beings understand it.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
You realize they don’t make Hummers anymore, right? Market forces killed them off.
Veritas
“Economic dislocation”. Oh noes. Market corrections? Creative destruction? TEH HORROR! We need a Gosplan to get rid of those!
Bruce S
“on any other cable news show discussing the religious implications of birth control and women, the panelist would have been male.”
Chris Hayes just prior to Perry’s brand new show is also excellent and rich with discussion and insight not seen on other shows, including most of the weeknight MSNBC lineup.
I posted their great discussion contrasting the Big Romney and the Little Romney here:
titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2012/02/george-romneys-prodigal-son-ii.html
toujoursdan
@Veritas: You realize that it’s a metaphor, right?
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Oh noes! Caring about making people poorer for no reason. Only commies care about that!
Veritas
Question: if we hypothetically had an unlimited supply of oil, would you care about what kind of car people drove then? Would it get you all up in arms if everyone DID buy a big SUV if gas was unlimited? Or do you hate the very idea of cheap and abundant energy because then people are free to live how they want?
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
It’s not for “no reason”. If they start becoming poorer they’ll make different decisions eventually. That’s why Hummer isn’t around anymore for example.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: If we could hypothetically suspend the law of gravity, I’d be okay of people could fly if they wanted to as well.
You’re all about living in a fantasyland and using projection, aren’t you?
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Again, you hate the very idea of cheap energy. Because then there’s no reason to have a centrally planned economy, and the only way to bring that about since the Great Proletarian Revolution didn’t quite work out is to create an environmental scare.
toujoursdan
@Veritas:
Of course it’s no reason. There is no reason we have to waste oil.
(And genius, petroleum isn’t just used for fuel. It’s used for medicines, in fertilizers, in manufacturing, etc. So using it up isn’t a good idea anyway.)
toujoursdan
@Veritas: It’s all about projection now.
You just couldn’t be happy unless I was your strawman.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Projection of what? I don’t give two shits how you live. If you want to go off the grid into some cabin in Montana like the Unabomber and cut yourself off from civilization because you believe industrial society is evil, be my guest.
But don’t try to seize control of the power of the state to force everyone to live that way for a phony reason.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Where have I once advocated the power of the state to force anyone to do anything?
Give me the post # where I advocated that right now or admit that it’s a strawman, troll.
Bruce S
Omigod – Veritas must be some clown trying to make me think so-called “conservatives” are even more nonsensical and brain-dead than I already assumed they were. Either this is a put-on or the bar has been driven, against all odds, even lower – which means they’re now digging down about as deep as it takes to strike oil.
WaterGirl
@Soonergrunt: I didn’t say trolls shouldn’t get to post, I just can’t understand why folks participate in derailing the thread with all this back-and-forth with trolls.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
Tell me, toujoursdan, what happens when the Kulaks don’t want to join the collective farms, so to speak?
toujoursdan
@Veritas: Where did I say anything about collective farms? Give me the post # or admit that it’s a strawman.
Veritas
Utopian Leftist projects *always* end with the Terror and the Gulag. Fucking *always*, ever since the first one known as the French Revolution.
Veritas
@toujoursdan:
It’s a metaphor, dipshit. There will a large group of people that won’t go along with your scheme. Even with incentives.
What then?
dww44
@surlygurl: Yep watch them both.
And, a bit of dilemma for me personally as I am having to choose between CBS Sunday Morning,which I’ve long watched and both Up with Chris Hayes and MLP’s show. Today the CBS show had the living grandson of President John Tyler on who’s 84. Both of the antecedents of the living Tyler , i.e his father and grandfather, had beaucoup kids by two wives. The grandfather was 63 when Harrison’s father was born, and Harrison’s father was 75 when Harrison was born.
Bruce S
Is there a “Godwins’ law” for when moronic, intellectually cowardly reactionaries reach to invoke Stalinism in their pretending to reasoned contentions (as opposed to insane hysterics) over mainstream liberal policies – or even European social democracy for that matter? There should be. The discussion needs to just stop when some dip-shit…uh… dips this deep into his shit.
toujoursdan
@Veritas: And Conservative projects always end with terror and the death camps (especially if you’re a minority). Fucking always since World War II.
(You do realize that the Founding Fathers got their ideas from the French Revolution.)
toujoursdan
@Veritas: I know it’s metaphor stupid. Where I have invoked coercion in any of my posts? I’m still waiting for a post number where I wrote that.
Give me the number or admit that it’s a strawman.
Karl The Crap Blog Detective
@toujoursdan:
You do realise you aren’t talking to a real person, right?… You are just feeding inputs into simple algorithm that repeats on a loop.
toujoursdan
Yes, it was fun tormenting the poor loser, but now it’s boring. Time for supper anyway.
Bruce S
In other Conservative Clown Car news, Rick Santorum has taken a swan-dive into the abyss of deciding who is Christian and who isn’t. This guy certainly has the credentials to operate some mega-church for folks whose intellectual or psychological weaknesses crave the solace of “biblical inerrancy” or terminal self-righteousness, but he’s proven himself not fit to be a political candidate on the national stage. Ricky’s nothing more than a deranged little man wrapped in delusions of Theocratic Grandeur.
cckids
@Suffern ACE: The Littles. by John Lawrence Peterson.
toujoursdan
@Amir Khalid:
This may be theoretically the case, but it’s unlikely the economics will ever support getting most of out of the ground. If the start-up and operating costs for retrieving oil render $400/barrel or $500/barrel oil, it will never come out of the earth. By then oil will be too expensive to power the economy and people will have transitioned to something else (alternatives, or back to brute manpower.)
Evergreen (formerly Betsy, forever ago)
@Soonergrunt:
Awwww. That is fantastic. I like this story.
I just realized in my previous post I made a heinous misspelling, but c’est la vie.
SiubhanDuinne
@Soonergrunt:
Explosive diarrhea – check.
Regurgitation of the same icky nastiness over and over and over again – check
Pain in the gut – check
Prayerful wish that all this stuff would just GO.AWAY – check
terry
it’s cute Veritas thinks the oil belongs to “us”.
it belongs to the multinational oil companies. and they can sell it to whomever they choose. Namely, China.
we could get protectionist, but that’d be socialist and i hear on the tv machine that’s against jesus.
Another Halocene Human
@Amir Khalid: THREE OWN-GOALS IN A SINGLE MATCH?
Pics or it didn’t happen.
slag
Good link, Zandar! Even without all the usual yelling and [CROSSTALK], that was an interesting segment.
Egg Berry
Wow! Way to distract the troll so the rest of us can read the intelligent commentary in the next two threads!
dww44
@Hill Dweller:
..
I’m glad, too, but I also think that their presence, particularly Maddow’s, has made Chris Matthews more progressive and more tolerable, although he still tends to annoyingly interrut his guests. And Ed Schultz’s progressive populism, while sometimes too in your face, provides a needed antidote to his counterparts on the right. And, frankly, to folks like Chuck Todd and David Gregory on his own network as well. No equivocation with our Mr. Ed.
dww44
@Mutaman: I can’t say for sure not, but she’s simply not that sort of political pundit or guest. She supports Obama, but she’s very measured and very intellectual. That sort of remark doesn’t jibe with my observations of the sort of thing she would ever say on TeeVee or anywhere else.
Amir Khalid
@Another Halocene Human:
Er, no pictures, sorry. But here’s the Guardian’s match report. A team conceding three own goals has never happened before in the 140-year history of the English FA Cup, which is the oldest knockout competition in the sport.
Svensker
@sharl:
Ditto. :)
cynn
@Veritas: Sounds like the ultimate heterophobic solution.
Mutaman
@TooManyJens:
Her words speak for themselves. See if you can find a “fact” here:
thenation.com/article/163544/black-president-double-standard-why-white-liberals-are-abandoning-obama