Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Second rate reporter says what?

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

The revolution will be supervised.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Republicans in disarray!

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2012 / Since when are hardworking men and women special interests?

Since when are hardworking men and women special interests?

by | 158 Comments

This post is in: 

Damn fucking straight:

“You want to talk about values?” he (Obama) asked. “Hard work — that’s a value. Looking out for one another — that’s a value. The idea that we’re all in it together — that I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper — that is a value.”

He continued: “But they’re still talking about you as if you’re some greedy special interest that needs to be beaten. Since when are hardworking men and women special interests? Since when is the idea that we look out for each other a bad thing?”

Doesn’t he know that only churches and corporations are really people?

Reader Interactions

158Comments

  3. 3.

    Hunter Gathers

    Doesn’t he know that only churches and corporations are really people?

    Of course not. He’s a godless commie Muslim.

  4. 4.

    Rhoda

    I loved that he quoted Ted Kennedy: “What is it about hard working men and women they find so offensive?”

    He lit up the room; it was a great speech.

  12. 12.

    Culture of Truth

    Silly Obama. “Values voters” hate sex, especially abnormal icky sex. And single mothers.

  13. 13.

    Veritas

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Nope. Sorry, but no. The current polls are tied, but guess what?

    Romney has an absolute INSURMOUNTABLE lead in absentee and early voting, which will easily give him the edge over Rick.

    Sorry, liberals, but the GOP primary will be ending soon–and with it, Obambi’s free ride.

  14. 14.

    Rhoda

    @Veritas: That is just so sick. Laura Bush accidentally took a life too; but that won’t be the first line in her obit or biography. Ted Kennedy devoted his life to this country and it’s people and whatever his failings; he changed people’s lives for the better and lifted up many. He was a great senator; and God willing the good he did made up for what he may have lacked.

    But he did more good than most can say; so fuck you.

  15. 15.

    Dave

    @Veritas: It’s going to be interesting when your artificial reality where the GOP is fielding competent candidates collides with actual reality when Obama wipes the floor with whichever sad sack the GOP offers up.

  16. 16.

    Veritas

    @Rhoda:

    Laura Bush accidentally took a life too[citation needed]

    Teddy Kennedy was an obese, alcoholic loud mouth demagogue and nothing more. The fact that you worship that fat, liquor-addled murderer says a lot about modern liberalism.

  18. 18.

    Schlemizel

    @Culture of Truth:
    And they define abnormal icky as anything other than a married man joylessly wiggling on top of his wife just long enough to drop his seed while trying not to look to closely at the disgust in her eyes.

    Then rolling over and going to sleep.

  19. 19.

    lamh35

    Buzzfeed has a post up saying that internal GOP polling shows a late surge for Santorum. The headline says “Romney Might Lose This Thing”… I’m at work so can’t post the link…anyone else see that

  20. 20.

    johnsmith1882

    @Veritas: oooh, i see what you did there. you put church in quotes, because a black church, attended by black people, presided over by a black minister doesn’t count as a real church. maybe three fifths of a church?

  24. 24.

    amk

    He burned the fucking barn with those lines. Hard working men and women is gonna be the this election cycle’s meme.

    @ veritas – has mitt bought the MI just like ME ?

  27. 27.

    Schlemizel

    @Veritas:
    Yeah, I remember a couple of weeks ago when you said Willard was going to win 3 ah, er 2 well ah take Colorado to the bank no way Willard will lose that one for sure.

    Are you paid to do this or are you truly this stupid?

  28. 28.

    Veritas

    @amk:

    Who are the hard working men and women? The 52% who pay income tax or the 48% that don’t pay any at all and live off the government dole?

  32. 32.

    Culture of Truth

    MI is not winner-take-all, so whatever happens, Romney is still ahead.

    But the GOP is going to nominate a robotic rich guy who couldn’t carry his home state against a repressed non-entity named after post sex frothy mix.

  33. 33.

    Short Bus Bully

    POTUS, give me MOAR of this shit! Hard working men and women, hells yeah!

    I’m ready to get to work now!

  34. 34.

    amk

    @Veritas: the usual ‘question’ from the guy sucks at the 1%’er’s ass seriously. How much did mitt pay when compared to those 52%ers you throw about, you racist pos ?

  35. 35.

    ShadeTail

    You’d think that, after all this time, people would be able to recognize a troll when they see one and learn how not to feed it. Veritas is a waste of time, folks. Also a waste of skin and DNA. Ignore the sickly creature and it will die soon.

  39. 39.

    Veritas

    This election is aboout the Makers–the 52% who pay income taxes and subsidize everyone else’s free ride–and the Takers, the 48% who suck off the government tit and pay nothing back.

  40. 40.

    johnsmith1882

    @Veritas: oh, you mean the 48% who pay fica, social security, medicare, state income taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, and county taxes? that 48% living on the dole?

    you got to step up your game, son.

  43. 43.

    Veritas

    @johnsmith1882:

    This is a federal election about federal taxes.

    And SS and Medicare aren’t taxes–they’re contributions. Or at least that’s what liberals told me for decades before…

  44. 44.

    jibeaux

    FFSDNFTT HNHOGNTTS and it just leaves the thread all santorumy

    bonus points if you can guess the second part

  45. 45.

    ShadeTail

    @Steve: I’ve noticed, but it’s still worth pointing out. If nothing else, I’ve gotten a lot of enjoyment from counter-trolling the trolls. Some of them get really pissy, particularly when I don’t respond to their posts and just keep pointing out what weak piles of shit they are to the people they’re baiting.

  46. 46.

    Amir Khalid

    If m_c were to show on this thread, then Veritas and she could have a Yes he can!/No he can’t! session over Mitt while the rest of us sneak out and go someplace more congenial.

  47. 47.

    Interrobang

    Don’t you know that in our brave new world, working is for the lesser beings? Real people live off the proceeds of their capital, not off the proceeds of their labour.

  49. 49.

    Comrade Dread

    Now, see, when he says stuff like this, it makes me want to vote for him.

    I mean, not that it matters since I live in a solidly blue state anyways, but less compromising, more populism from Democrats all around, please.

  50. 50.

    nellcote

    I take Verita’s excessive trolling to be a sign that the Mittster’s in big trouble. At least that’s the pattern of the last couple of months.

  51. 51.

    johnsmith1882

    @Interrobang: correction: capitalists make their money from capital, proletarians make their money by working for a living. it’s the definition of capitalism, and always has been. the sooner the rubes understand this, the sooner they stop voting against their own self interests.

  54. 54.

    dmsilev

    Well, Veritas has declared VICTORY for Romney. Guess that means that the Romneytronic has had its concession speech downloaded into active memory.

  55. 55.

    jibeaux

    @Amir Khalid: Well, we can dream, anyway.
    Springsteen was on Jimmy Fallon’s show last night. I can’t stay awake that light, but I’m going to look for it online after work. New album seems good.

  56. 56.

    John Dillinger

    Some of us who comprise the 52% to which Veritas refers chuckle at the notion of a troll, who has the time to spend countless hours during the business workday on internet message boards, pretending to speak for us.

  59. 59.

    Herbal Infusion Bagger

    “Are you paid to do this or are you truly this stupid?”

    Paid. There was a right-winger called Specialist whoinfested Klein’s blog comments (when Klein was still at the American Prospect) from about March-November 2008.

    Funnily enough, after the 2008 election, he disappeared. Guess his contract expired. I was surprised, I didn’t realise that commenters were getting paid up until then.

    I’d bet if we counted up Veritas’ comments, we’d see the daily posting rate bunching up around whatever the minimal contractually required number of posts is. And I’ll bet after November 2012, we won’t see much of Veritas anymore. That’s not to say that Veritas isn’t a sincere wingnut, but that he/she would rather spend their leisure time doing something else than posting on a hostile blog.

  60. 60.

    eyelessgame

    Not answering the troll directly, but one of the things I’ve noticed is how the arguments in favor of the Reagan and Dubya tax cuts went so far down the memory hole that no one seems to remember.

    They were both sensitive, to a degree, to the criticism that their tax cuts were tilted toward the wealthy. A selling point to the country of those Republican tax cuts was how many poor and working-class people were taken completely off the federal income tax rolls — as a demonstration of their claim that these tax cuts weren’t only for the rich.

    So yeah, 48% of the country doesn’t pay any federal income tax. Because the Republicans wrote the tax law that way.

  61. 61.

    Veritas

    @ant:

    Again, the polls are tied right now true, but Romney has already a INSURMOUNTABLE lead in the early and absentee voting. So even if the vote tonight splits slightly in Santorum’s direction, Romney still wins and get a nice head of steam heading into Super Tuesday.

  62. 62.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Veritas is a distraction. Bask in the joy of campaign season, when the things Obama says finally become news. Just as ‘rich people are the ones not paying their fair share’ enters the public consciousness for the first time in thirty years, Obama will be out there hammering that message home. It’s all the sweeter, because no matter who the GOP candidate is, it will be someone who reveals the real positions Reagan taught them to hide.

  64. 64.

    Jon O.

    @Veritas: So what is it about hard-working men and women that you find so offensive? It can’t be that they don’t pay taxes – as already cited, they pay FICA, Soc Sec, Medicare, state income taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, county taxes. Is it that nearly half of our country is so underpaid that we can’t reasonably charge them federal income tax?

    Maybe it’s possible that you have never been in the bottom 48% of the country financially. Maybe you were born well-off and raised well-off and live well-off now. Maybe the life experience of nearly half the country is foreign to you! But if that’s the case, maybe you don’t have any place talking about how Americans actually feel? Some of us are struggling out here, and don’t think much of those that don’t think much of us.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    @Veritas:

    This election is aboout the Makers—the 52% who pay income taxes and subsidize everyone else’s free ride—and the Takers, the 48% who suck off the government tit and pay nothing back.

    I agree — GE, Boeing and Wells Fargo all need to pay their fair share. Takers, all of them.

  68. 68.

    dedc79

    If today’s oral argument at the Supreme Court is any indication, the Court will soon hold that corporations are people when it helps them to be considered people, but they aren’t people when it would hurt them to be considered people. It will be 5-4, and we can have another teaching moment with the far left about how there actually are big differences between democrats and republicans.

  69. 69.

    makewi

    OIC. When talking to a union, you’re really talking to the union members. But when you are talking to a corporation or a church then the members suddenly lose their individuality.

    Nice. Obviously BS, but it’s what you got to work with.

  71. 71.

    FlipYrWhig

    @pragmatism: Including many of the people who themselves pay no net income tax because of refunds. They think they pay it because it comes out of their check, but then they get it back. IOW, they’re actually in the lucky-ducky teat-sucking free rider group while thinking it’s really someone ELSE that’s getting the handout. Sigh.

  72. 72.

    Origuy

    I liked the comment from WeatherServeo9 at TPM:
    “Obama delivers a barnburner, GOP candidates accuse him of being anti-barn.”

  73. 73.

    Legalize

    Veritas is actually pretty helpful. It confirms that it and the dip-shits that send it chain emails all day, believe that Rev. Wright, Chappaquiddick, and get-a-job-moochers is a winning game for them.

    The look on its face when the Kenyan makes a race out of AZ and TX will be priceless.

  75. 75.

    bemused

    I’ve got a couple of relatives that work and have worked hard but just scrape by. They get more and more annoying the older they get, very cranky and bitter about everything, I suspect because they haven’t saved a dime. One collects SS after a serious illness. Bitch, bitch, think their parents should bail them out when things are tight for them and of course everything is someone else’s fault, not theirs.

    That said, I don’t want to see them or anyone else go hungry or without basic health care. We’re a lot poorer and deficient as a country if we allow that. They’ve paid taxes and the 48% have paid taxes even if they barely have a pot to pee in while the job exporters have had a damn good deal on taxes for a very long time.

  76. 76.

    Thymezone

    This was a 35 state speech. With a campaign that sounds like this, against what the GOP can put up … we might win 35 states. And the House.

    Who speaks better to the blue collar worker? Barack Obama, or SantoRomney? Game over.

    The speech is streamed at CSPAN if you didn’t see it. Watch it all, there are no dull parts.

  77. 77.

    Surreal American

    UCC maybe a “nutball” church, but Jeremiah Wright is still morally superior to Newt Gingrich.

    Jeremiah Wright: military veteran, devoted husband, family man.

  78. 78.

    Legalize

    @makewi:
    Except that Unions are defined by their memberships, while, you know, corporations and churches aren’t.

    Obvious. Except to dead-ender dip-shits like you.

  80. 80.

    quannlace

    but Romney has already a INSURMOUNTABLE lead in the early an

    And of course if you type some of your statements in ALL CAPS, it makes it even more truthier!

  82. 82.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Are paid trolls like Reality Chuck makers or takers? I mean, we all know that paid trolls like Reality Chuck pretend to be rugged individualists who pull in six figures a year, but seriously?

    I’d love for a look behind the scenes of paid trolling outfits.

  83. 83.

    makewi

    @Legalize:

    Except that Unions are defined by their memberships, while, you know, corporations and churches aren’t.
    Obvious. Except to dead-ender dip-shits like you.

    What’s obvious is the extent to which you will reach in order to pretend you have a point. You got nothing, because there is nothing you could have.

  84. 84.

    Marc

    @Legalize:

    Apparently corporations hold open votes to elect people who distribute campaign contributions. Either that, or maybe there is a difference between a union and a corporation?

  87. 87.

    makewi

    @Marc:

    Either that, or maybe there is a difference between a union and a corporation?

    Well, there is the fact that Unions are essentially extensions of the Democrat party so need to be defended at all costs. That’s something.

  88. 88.

    PPOG Penguin

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    pretend to be rugged individualists who pull in six figures a year

    I recall Veritas in some long-ago thread claiming that he had a job making ‘nearly six figures.’ Nearly six. That would be five, then.

  89. 89.

    Frank

    @Veritas:

    Nope, he just went to a nutball “church” for 28 years. A “church” much nuttier than the Catholics or even Mormons.

    How would you know? Did you attend it? If you did, then why did you yourself go a nutty church as you call it.

    If you didn’t attend it, why do make such claims? Or do you always repeat everything that FoxNews/Rush says?

    Any by the way, do you know anything about Christianity and Mormons?

  90. 90.

    Frank

    @makewi:

    Well, there is the fact that Unions are essentially extensions of the Democrat party so need to be defended at all costs.

    What is the Democrat Party?

  91. 91.

    Legalize

    @makewi:
    Other than demonstrating that (a) you don’t know the difference between unincorporated organizations and churches / corporations; and (b) that your lack of knowledge doesn’t stop you from trolling how your masters command you.

    Again, obvious to all. Except to dip-shits like you.

  93. 93.

    Chris

    @makewi:

    Well, there is the fact that Unions are essentially extensions of the Democrat party so need to be defended at all costs. That’s something.

    *snort

    Yeah, it’s almost hard to believe that when one of the two parties believes in abolishing collective bargaining rights altogether, those guys are going to flock to the other party. It’s unfathomable, I tell you.

    Back in the old days, plenty of unions didn’t have a problem rooting for Repubs – the Teamsters went for Nixon, if memory serves. But, well, then they got turned into a scapegoat, and whaddaya know…

  95. 95.

    gwangung

    I put “church” in quotes because it’s nutty.

    Nah, you did that because you don’t go to church much.

    On the other hand, some of us DO.

  97. 97.

    Frank

    @Veritas:

    This election is aboout the Makers—the 52% who pay income taxes and subsidize everyone else’s free ride—and the Takers, the 48% who suck off the government tit and pay nothing back.

    EVERYONE in this country pays taxes. Or do you really think there literally are people that never buys anything and thus pays no SALES TAX? Just to mention one.

    Furthermore, your post talks about “subsidize everyone else’s free ride” as you call it. I subsidized YOUR dumb war in Iraq. Eventhough I knew how dumb it was and thus was against it. Not only that, my kids and grandkids will also end paying for YOUR Iraq war. So, who is the one who is really sucking off the govt tit? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror…

  98. 98.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    When talking to a union, you’re really talking to the union members. But when you are talking to a corporation or a church then the members suddenly lose their individuality.

    A corporation has members?

    Oh, wait, I know, you’re talking about the only people who you think matter — the members of the board. Those of us who actually work for the corporation don’t count as “members.”

    Same with the church — you don’t think the actual church members’ opinions “count” for anything, you go by what the bishops say.

    So it seems that what drives you nuts about unions is that the leadership actually listens to what their members have to say, unlike churches and corporations, where the members are subordinate to the leadership, so their opinions don’t count.

  100. 100.

    makewi

    Only people who can vote for their “leaders”, but who can’t vote to not have any or the dues they require, count.

    Democrats 2012, we know what’s good for you!

  102. 102.

    ChrisNYC

    “But they’re still talking about you as if you’re some greedy special interest that needs to be beaten.”

    Good lord, what a great line. Really wraps it up and resonates.

  103. 103.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    So it seems that what drives you nuts about unions is that the leadership actually listens to what their members have to say, unlike churches and corporations, where the members are subordinate to the leadership, so their opinions don’t count.

    What I love best about you is your complete inability to make an argument that isn’t fanciful in nature. It comes from being so full of shit I expect.

  104. 104.

    Jay C

    @Veritas:

    Hey! The troll (or its programmers) remembers the GOP-Cliche-Of-The-Week! Though I think the “Makers vs. Takers” catchphrase is rapidly approaching its sell-by date…

    The big problem for the GOP this year is that having (sadly, successfully) trolled for votes among the white working class for decades by working this very meme – with the “takers”, of course, being pretty much defined exclusively as the dark-skinned and/or Spanish-speaking – said working class is finally wising up to the fact that as far as the Republican Party of 2012 is concerned, most of them are now looked (down) on as “takers” too – for the unutterable sin of actually wanting to demand wages and benefits that will let them live some sort of life in the actual “middle class” of American society, rather than at its grubby, insecure fringes.

    It seems like President Obama actually gets this, and for all the GOP’s frantic attempts to change the subject, is more likely to end up on the right end of the argument – and garner the votes thereby.

  106. 106.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    What I love best about you is your complete inability to make an argument that isn’t fanciful in nature. It comes from being so full of shit I expect.

    I love your complete inability to defend your stated position that a Catholic hospital has a right to freedom of religion that overrides the freedom of religion of the hospital’s staff and patients, so all you can do is fulminate about how mmmeeeaaannnn I am for defending the religious rights of patients and employees.

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    Look forward to seeing Obama’s UAW speech this evening.

    My question: why is Romney favored in Arizona?

    Don’t follow the GOP primaries closely, but why would he be more appealing in a state that elected Jan “Finger Pointing” Brewer?

  110. 110.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Your entire argument re: the Catholics is that having to pay for $20-$50 a month out of your own pocket is so onerous that the recipients have a right to demand it paid for despite longstanding religious moral objections. Which, you know, is so ridiculous that you can’t stop yourself from repeating it again and again.

  112. 112.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    @Chris:

    Back in the old days, plenty of unions didn’t have a problem rooting for Repubs – the Teamsters went for Nixon, if memory serves. But, well, then they got turned into a scapegoat, and whaddaya know…

    In the 1980 election, PATCO endorsed Ronald Reagan, which proved to be a fatal mistake.

  114. 114.

    Chris

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    It took a while for a lot of people to realize how badly they’d screwed themselves by hopping on board the movement conservative train. I suspect once the dust has settled from their current shenanigans in the Rust Belt, a lot of people will forget once again.

  115. 115.

    hamletta

    @Mnemosyne:

    unlike churches and corporations, where the members are subordinate to the leadership, so their opinions don’t count.

    Actually, that’s not true in all cases. Most mainline Protestant denominations arrive at their social statements by a vote from both clergy and the laity.

  116. 116.

    PTirebiter

    Fun watching the rightwing pundits trying to respond to the speech without repeating any of Obama’s applause lines. The sea of GOP flop sweat makes me think they’d forgotten he’s only professorial when he wants to be.

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    Your entire argument re: the Catholics is that having to pay for $20-$50 a month out of your own pocket is so onerous that the recipients have a right to demand it paid for despite longstanding religious moral objections.

    Yes, it’s true: my entire argument is that your employer should not be allowed to decide what they will and will not cover in your health insurance based on the employer’s religious beliefs. I think the employee’s religious beliefs should trump those of the employer.

    You, on the other hand, think that non-religious employers like hospitals and body shops should be allowed to dictate that their employees follow the doctrine of the Catholic Church even if those employees aren’t Catholics.

    So tell me, makewi, when I point out that you think that employers should be allowed to impose their religious beliefs on their employees, in what way am I wrong?

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    Democrats 2012, because you have a right for the Catholics to pay for your sex to keep your boss from dictating your healthcare!

    Fix’d. Though it is funny that you admit outright that you think Catholic employers should be allowed to butt into their employee’s sex lives.

  120. 120.

    hamletta

    @makewi: $50/month is a lot of money if you’re making $10/hour. And religious freedom doesn’t include the right to impose your dogma on other people.

  121. 121.

    hamletta

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: When Reagan died, USA Today had a bunch of man-on-the-street blurbs, including one from a former air traffic controller who’d been fired.

    Dude stopped just short of threatening to piss on Reagan’s grave.

  122. 122.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Well sure, of course you would modify consequence free sex = healthcare. Because using the term healthcare as a standin for forcing the Catholics to subsidize your sex is the sort of move you should expect from the left.

  124. 124.

    makewi

    @hamletta:

    Shall we list the things that are a lot of money when you are making $10/hr but which no one is being forced to pay for?

    I’ll start – Gas, Rent, Clothes, Food.

  125. 125.

    Frank

    @makewi:

    I had to pay for your dumb war in Iraq. It is funny you didn’t have a problem with that, but now when religious zealots don’t want to pay for something you get bent out of shape.

  126. 126.

    PTirebiter

    Democrats 2012, because you have a right for the Catholics to pay for your sex!

    Seems only fair since taxpayers and victims are paying for the priests’ having sex…. with children.

  127. 127.

    Ed Drone

    @Herbal Infusion Bagger:

    didn’t realise that commenters were getting paid up until then.

    I wonder if he makes enough on this to pay taxes. Or does he just not report the income? You know, FREELOAD!!

    Just wondering is all…

    Ed

  128. 128.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Where butt into is equal to forced to pay for. You love word substitution. If the Catholics aren’t willing to subsidize consequence free sex due to longstanding religous moral objections then they are butting into the sex lives of others. Why it’s almost like they are forcing their workers to wear chastity belts and drug testing them for evidence of birth control usage.

    Again. You can not argue without being dishonest.

  132. 132.

    Ed Drone

    @makewi:

    Only people who can vote for their “leaders”, but who can’t vote to not have any or the dues they require, count.

    Huh? That sentence is verklempt! Oh, now I get it:

    “Talk like Yoda Day” it must be!

    Either that or English is not to you native.

    Ed

  134. 134.

    Frank

    @makewi:

    Yes we are. And that was why I patiently attempted to point out you that people who were against the Iraq war still had to pay for the stupid thing. That is no different than employers having to follow the law when it comes to health care.

    Do you even know what a debate is, honey?

    By the way, you are the posterboy for the very far right – selfish and wanting to impose your own warped beliefs on everybody else.

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    Well sure, of course you would modify consequence free sex = healthcare.

    Well, oddly, those “consequences” that you keep talking about do end up requiring healthcare, both before and after birth. But I haven’t heard you complaining about employers being “forced” to pay for pre-natal and pediatric care just because their employees decided to have sex. Or is that next on your list to cut off? I know it’s next on Rick Santorum’s.

    If the Catholics aren’t willing to subsidize consequence free sex due to longstanding religous moral objections then they are butting into the sex lives of others.

    Yes, it’s true: when your employer decides that you shouldn’t have access to birth control through the company’s insurance because he feels it’s immoral, your employer is butting into your sex life.

    Though I do appreciate that you think every married woman in America is a whore if she has “consequence-free sex” with her husband. I guess us married women should all stop having sex with our husbands immediately if we don’t want a baby every time, because married people having “consequence-free sex” is bad bad bad.

    Thanks, by the way, for reminding all of us that it’s not just pre-marital sex you hate: it’s all sex, even for married couples, and married couples who don’t want 10 kids should never have gotten married, amirite?

  136. 136.

    Chris

    @makewi:

    Oh sweetie. It was our war. That’s the way it works.

    When it comes to killing people for no particular reason, it’s your patriotic duty to chip in, but paying for your fellow citizens’ health care is going WAY over the line.

  137. 137.

    Mnemosyne

    Here’s makewi’s perfect, moral America, by the way:

    Margaret (Sanger) cared for Sadie Sachs, the mother of three young children, as she lay ill with septicemia and other complications of a self-induced abortion. After a difficult recovery, Mrs. Sachs begged for contraceptive advice, only to have the attending doctor laughingly suggest that her husband sleep on the roof. Mrs. Sachs later died following another self-induced abortion.

    That’s right, married sluts — if you didn’t want to have 11 children and die at age 50 like Margaret Sanger’s mother, you shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place!

  138. 138.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yes, it’s true: when your employer decides that you shouldn’t have access to birth control through the company’s insurance because he feels it’s immoral, your employer is butting into your sex life.

    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.

  139. 139.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.

    Your employer is dictating what healthcare you’re allowed to access. How is that not your employer butting into your sex life? Plugging your ears and saying “LALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” is not an argument. Come up with something coherent, for once.

  140. 140.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Once again, because you are so dishonest, you are pretending that I have an objection to birth control itself. You simply cannot argue within the boundries of my actual argument. It’s pathetically funny. And more than a little sad.

  141. 141.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    Jesus it’s like saying that since your employer won’t pay for your steaks, salads and bread that they want to butt into your nutritional life. It’s an idiotic argument – made of course, by an idiot.

  142. 142.

    Chris

    @Mnemosyne:

    Though I do appreciate that you think every married woman in America is a whore if she has “consequence-free sex” with her husband. I guess us married women should all stop having sex with our husbands immediately if we don’t want a baby every time, because married people having “consequence-free sex” is bad bad bad.

    Correct. That is, in fact, an exact summary of the Catholic Church’s position of the issue of sex. No, I’m not trying to be snarky.

  143. 143.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    Once again, because you are so dishonest, you are pretending that I have an objection to birth control itself.

    You’re arguing on behalf of the Catholic Church, which does have an objection to birth control itself. No form of artificial birth control is permitted by the Catholic Church.

    So, just as the personal opinion about birth control of a staff member of a Catholic hospital doesn’t matter to the Catholic Church, your personal opinion of birth control is immaterial since the argument you’re making is that the Catholic Church can impose its opinion on its employees regardless of what those employees believe.

    You simply cannot argue within the boundries of my actual argument.

    Again, you are representing the Catholic Church in this argument, and you are being held to their boundaries just as you want all of their hospital staff being held to those same boundaries. Your opinion doesn’t matter — only the Church’s opinion matters, and they don’t want their employees (or patients) having access to birth control.

    So be consistent — either your opinion is the one that counts, or the Catholic Church’s opinion is the one that counts. Which is it? You can’t argue both ways.

  144. 144.

    Ed Drone

    @makewi:

    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.

    Sauce –> goose = sauce –> gander

    Saying it doesn’t make it true, no matter how many times you yourself say it. And the point exactly is that health care for one’s employees trumps religious objections for one’s co-religionists, since one’s employees are NOT co-religionists. The Church does not have to provide contraception for its members, but if it employs people in the broader economy (i.e., outside the church as a church), then it has the obligation to provide for it.

    Since insurance involves spreading risk, the incidental cost is not a deal-breaker, either. For that matter, your complaint that the employees could pay for their own care is moot — they already pay a share, so it’s not like the Church has to cover it all.

    So, is this “war against the Church?”
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.
    Is it unfair?
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.
    Should we listen any more to you?
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.
    No, no, no. No matter how many times you say it, no.

    Ed

  147. 147.

    Rafer Janders

    @makewi:

    As mentioned last night, $20-$50 a month is the current co-pay. If you have to pay out of your own pocket, it’s about $40-$100 a month — which, in a country where the median annual individual income is about $26,000, is quite a lot of money.

  148. 148.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    Jesus it’s like saying that since your employer won’t pay for your steaks, salads and bread that they want to butt into your nutritional life.

    Is your employer providing you with three meals a day, except they won’t give you ham because they’re Jewish? Because that’s the only way your metaphor makes sense.

    You keep trying to pretend that birth control is somehow not really health care, even though all of those “consequences” that result from not using it require a whole lot of expensive health care for years afterwards. But you can’t pull it out and pretend it’s completely unrelated to the rest of the health care that employees get any more than an employer who provides all of your meals can pull out just ham and pretend that ham isn’t really food, so you should have to pay for it yourself.

  150. 150.

    makewi

    @Mnemosyne:

    I get it, you need handicaps in order to be able to try to keep up. In your mind, I am arguing FOR the Catholic Church.

    I’m not the one who hides my argument by equating forced paying of birth control = health care, or forced paying of birth control = butting into a sex life. Now it’s that I’m arguing for the Catholic Church.

    You argue against everything except what I am actually arguing. It was “fun” but it’s clear you can’t keep up, so “think” whatever you want. You’re going to anyway.

  152. 152.

    Rafer Janders

    @makewi:

    Jesus it’s like saying that since your employer won’t pay for your steaks, salads and bread that they want to butt into your nutritional life.

    Um, yeah. If your employer told you that you weren’t allowed to spend any of your paycheck on steak, salad and bread, then your employer would be butting into your nutritional life.

    Employee healthcare is part of the employee’s compensation, just as her paycheck is.

  153. 153.

    colby

    This has been a textbook example of how a child loses an argument- going from “NUH UH!” to personal attacks to “THAT’S NOT WHAT I SAID, ANYWAY!” and then taking the ball and going home.

  154. 154.

    mclaren

    Tragically, Obama’s honeyed words are all bullshit designed to soothe the electorate. As soon as Obama gets re-elected and sworn in on 20 January 2013, he’ll resume slashing taxes for billionaires and cutting medicare and medicaid in order to hurl more trillions of dollars into the U.S. military so the president of the united can order U.S. citizens assassinated without charging ’em with a crime.

  157. 157.

    kay

    Nice to see him among friends.

    The conservative governors are backing off bashing private sector unions because they need union voters in Midwest states.

    They’re lying, of course, just like Mitch Daniels lied, but it’ll be fun to watch
    them squirm.

    Mitch Daniels is going to be the poster boy for how conservative politicians lie to private sector union members for 2012.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne

    @makewi:

    I’m not the one who hides my argument by equating forced paying of birth control = health care, or forced paying of birth control = butting into a sex life. Now it’s that I’m arguing for the Catholic Church.

    Sweetie, your argument all along has been that the Catholic Church can decide not to pay for its employees’ birth control on moral grounds, has it not? If not, what argument did you think you were making?

    Your problem is that you’re not willing to admit that birth control IS a vital part of healthcare. Every married woman who doesn’t want 10 children uses it as a normal part of everyday life. It’s ridiculous to claim that employers should have to cover pre-natal care and pediatric care but not birth control, because they’re all related. It’s like saying that employers can refuse to cover insulin for diabetics but still pay for the amputation that ends up being required because the diabetic’s blood sugar was out of control.

Comments are closed.