So I finally broke down, bit the bullet, and purchased my raised bed gardens. I was going to build them from scratch, but I ran the numbers at a couple lumber and supply yards, and every time I came up spending more than if I bought them from someone. So I ended up purchasing them from a small family business in Vermont, Cedar Goods (one of you kind people sent me the link the last time I talked about it). The price was right, plus they have free shipping, and most importantly, they are a small business and they responded promptly and politely to my emails.
At any rate, I ordered four 4’x8’x8″ beds, and I guess what I need to know is how much topsoil I need. Or do I even want topsoil? My plan is to use these for this year, then next year, splurge and order the same amount so the beds are 16″ tall.
Soooo, green thumbs. Should I just get a truckload of topsoil? Or should I go something like mushroom compost and a topsoil mix? Work with me. I only have a couple weeks. I really want this all in by 15 May. How much soil do I need, total? I’m sure I knew the math 30 years ago when I was on the math team, but now I am just lost.
And, since I love you all so much, I went out into the torrential downpour and took a picture of the flower box I just put in today, with two types of beautiful petunias in the front and some snapdragons and marigolds in the back. I put it in even though I am worried about frost, because I can easily unlatch them if a frost comes and throw them inside.
I’ve got another 12 flower boxes all along the back fence, but half of them are vacant atm since I am waiting for the frost to end, and I just have the durable herbs out (cilantro, parsley, mint). Once it warms up, I will get the basil, rosemary, and other stuff up, as well as the summer florals.
khead
The flower box is nice.
Where’s Tunch? Heh.
PeakVT
@khead: Looking out the window at the flower box and thinking, “Soon.”
Xboxershorts
CREW has requested the FCC pull FOX news broadcast licenses:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/01/fcc-called-on-to-revoke-fox-broadcast-licences/
ant
I like the flower box.
petunias are one of my favorites as well. Mine always do real good if I remember to water them.
khead
I love petunias.
Mom (rest her soul) used to hang them in pots on the carport.
Touching them meant death to me or any other child foolish enough to mess with them.
Cassidy
Anyone have any experience with the Comfortzone being advertised to the right?
Mnemosyne
Any container gardeners? We have no land, only a balcony, but I’d like to attract some hummingbirds to entertain the cats while we’re at work. We’re in Zone 10A (Southern California) but our balcony doesn’t get much sun. I have my eye on some salvia (aka Mexican lavender) — any other ideas?
protected static
I have a prefab raised bed kit sitting in my living room right now. Its label says that at 4’x4’x7″, the bed will take 8 cubic feet, so 16 cubic feet per bed will be slightly scant for each of your beds.
Little Boots
oh, great, john. awesome.
MikeBoyScout
You are truly a renaissance man JC.
Little Boots
can you please be doug, or ABL?
tBoy
Get a pickup load of good compost and mix it in the existing soil. Mulch heavily. Since you will not be walking on it the compaction will be very slow. As the mulch breaks down add more. Sooner rather than later the beds will rise.
Madeline
Here you go. Raised Bed Soil Volume Calculator. They have a soil formula too.
khead
A bit OT. But…..
Nick Rahall (D – WV) is pimping the 620K that he grabbed to supply water to 540 residents in my home county.
You could move all 540 residents out of the state with that 620K.
Really – all of them. To a location where there is already clean water.
Hell, just pick a spot anywhere outside of WV and those folks would probably be better off.
GregB
I fabbed two 3’X3’X6″ beds from cedar and my Dad made 2 4’X4’X6″ beds from composite board and I think that half a yard of loam filled them pretty close to the brim. That and 2 bags of Maine lobster compost.
Around here half a yard of loam ran $12.00.
TaMara (BHF)
@Mnemosyne: I wish I knew a way to put you in touch with my friend Jackie. She lives in Studio City and is the queen of container gardening. Her entire lot, while small, is beautiful. My containers are only so-so, hence I am of no help.
General Stuck
I would go with just local topsoil. Blending in compost and other store bought additives run the risk of PH and carbon/nitrogen ratio problems. You can add ordinary fertilizers later on as needed.
Mnemosyne
@TaMara (BHF):
Our big problem is that we get pretty much no sun on our balcony, and most things that grow nicely in So Cal need lots of sun.
I may have to take myself down to the local Armstrong Garden Center and chat up one of the salespeople.
The prophet Nostradumbass
Some of what’s going on in my yard now.
Little Boots
yeah.
ya know, john, I don’t even have a garden, but I’m here.
let’s talk.
clayton
@Mnemosyne: I’ve had very good luck with Lantana. Some call it a weed, but the flowers are very pretty and it can grow in shade and sun (I have it in both). Though they don’t attract hummingbirds. In order to get them to come around get yourself a feeder. All of the plants they like are bigger than what you could do in a box.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
Sheesh. Here’s the math:
4×8 ft bed, 32 SF, 8″ deep = 2/3 ft, say 11 CF/bed
For four beds, that’s 44 CF of soil.
1 CY = 27 CF, so you’re looking at 1.6 yards. A small truckload is 2-3 CY. I’d say get the truckload if you have a place to pile the extra until you expand the garden, otherwise find a friend who needs soil and have the trucker split the load.
Culture of Truth
Hulk suggest full truckload. You no like Hulk with insufficient flower bed.
Mnemosyne
@clayton:
My main worry with a feeder is that I will forget to clean it and end up with a bunch of poisoned hummingbirds. I am the world’s worst housekeeper, so the odds of me accidentally poisoning the birds with nectar gone bad are actually pretty high. That’s why I’m leaning towards plants.
(Plus apparently hummingbird nectar is basically avian junk food — getting nectar/pollen from flowers is much healthier for them.)
Little Boots
little boots wish was reading culture of truth blog.
Apikoros
John,
First, for the beds you bought you will need roughly 7 cubic yards of fill. A pickup truck holds a bit more than a yard so figurr 6-7 pickup trucks full of dirt. a dump truck can hold muck more and most can hold more than 7, so one dump truck full. Arrange delivery in the afternoon (first delivery of the day gets all the trash dumped in the truck overnight) and BE THERE to watch them dump! Prices are very negotiable! Bargain hard! Get prices from a variety of sources. Remember that most counties will GIVE you ground leaves and branches which mix well with what you have delivered. My sister builds a new bed every year in the fall, 3/4 fills it with mulch from the county and has it topped with a yard of topsoil courtesy of my brother-in-law’s pickup truck. By spring, she plants away and has had good luck. YMMV :-)
General Stuck
@Mnemosyne:
pure cane sugar mixed to a 1 to 4 ratio/distilled water is way better/healthier than store bought nectar with the junk they put in that.
I bought me some flowers to try to attract hummers along with feeders this year. Mostly for hopefully an opportunity to photograph them feeding on real nectar.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Apikoros: Oh, bugger! I knew I should have had someone QC my calcs.
__
2/3 FT x 32 SF = 22 CF, not 11. 4 beds is 88 CF, so ~ 3.2 CY.
How are you getting seven?
Mnemosyne
@General Stuck:
Be prepared for some interesting behavior — apparently the male hummers will become territorial when they find a good feeding spot, so you may get some hummingbird duels by your flowers.
Little Boots
monkees, dammit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU615FaODCg
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: Hummingbird swordfights? Am I the only one who thinks that might just be this side of awesome?
Mnemosyne
@Little Boots:
I think that belongs in DougJ’s karaoke thread.
General Stuck
@Mnemosyne:
They are fierce with each other over defending a feeding spot, to be so tiny. The females can be just as ornery guarding a feeder/flower, when the males aren’t around.
reality-based
a quick tip from a plant wizard here – I know it’s hard, but pinch back your snapdragons and petunias now – back to about the 4th or fifth leaf from the base. By sacrificing that first spindly early bloom now, your plants will branch out, fill out, and look amazing in 3 weeks –
Then, in mid-July, when all your planters are looking scraggly and spent, grab a pair of scissors and shear them all off hard again – they’ll look great in august again.
it’s the Virtue of Delayed Gratification thing, Gardening edition.
Also FYI – we put time-release fertilizer in all the flower planters we do at the greenhouse – keeps them fed and looking nice all summer.
Tbone
An ideal soil mix is 1/3 compost, 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite. For the compost portion, use a variety of sources – mushroom, sheep, cow, etc. To save some cash you could mix in native soil.
And remember V = LxWxH.
Mnemosyne
@Yutsano:
Ask and YouTube will supply.
Little Boots
@Mnemosyne:
I love Doug’s karaoke thread.
that’s a problem, isn’t it?
pukebot
i’m guessing 3 to 4 yards which is about full on a one ton dump. it is a small space so definitely get a mix of topsoil and compost and make a delicious chocolate cake soil. for christ’s sake you’re a foodie. don’t fuck around.
General Stuck
@Yutsano:
Hummingbird sword fight
HobbesAI
You’ll need a little more than 1 cubic cubit per bed.
protected static
@General Stuck: You haven’t seen funny/fierce hummingbirds until you’ve seen one chasing a bald eagle…
Jennifer
Hey…those are exactly like the ones I posted a link for (also a small business in Vermont) except the ones I found are a little less expensive. But these you’ve ordered are 1/4″ thicker, so probably worth a little more. Love the design of these.
Little Boots
just weed and mulch already.
what we need is night owls.
MattR
@HobbesAI: What’s a cubit?
General Stuck
@protected static:
Have not seen that. But it doesn’t surprise me, that they would take on an eagle
honus
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason: did both you and John go to school in WV? You started off OK, but how the hell does 2/3 of 32=11? You need more like 25 c.f per bed, (because it’s going to settle) which = 100cf for four beds, or a little less then than 4 yards of dirt. Which realistically, given the weight, is about four pickup loads, or one small dump truck. Topsoil weighs a little over a ton per cy.
Usually there are a lot of small operators hauling topsoil this time of year, but it might be tough this spring since they are all probably busy out on those Marcellus shale well sites.
Little Boots
is it too early for mellencamp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWWMmxyKOR0&ob=av2e
Little Boots
and just for omnes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puVmKfCwb4M
Little Boots
if he ever returns.
oh, I miss omnes.
dollared
@Little Boots: Omnes will be back at the end of June. He works on elections in Wisconsin. Truly, doing God’s (or FSM’s) work.
dollared
@honus: I can’t think of a better way to ratfuck Hockey Shoulder Cole. “No John, order 10 yards! It’s cheap and you don’t want to run out. Ohhhh…and it will kill you to move the first 2 yards and then that mountain will be in your driverway until your grandchildren learn to ski on it…..”
That $100 “buy five yards, get two free” deal has killed many a first time landscaper.
The Other Bob
Changing the subject of this open thread…
Some think Romney’s Mormon faith will hurt him with the fundies. Has anyone thought that the Mormon Church’s racist history might actually help Romney with the Southern vote?
handy
@The Other Bob:
Romney’s biggest problem isn’t that he’s Mormon. It’s that he’s Mitt Freakin’ Romney.
Anne Laurie
@Mnemosyne:
Because I’m lazy, I’d say get a hummingbird feeder to “prime” any birds in your area.
Only other thing I know about attracting the flying jewels is that they prefer red flowers, which is why the commercial feeders are so often that color.
joel hanes
Pace Stuck, I would add one bag of composted steer manure to each bed. Other additives depend on your local soil type and the topsoil you buy. If either is claylike, I would add a half-bag of sand to each bed, and a bag of mushroom compost. Avoid the raw-and-strong-smelling woody composts.
Where I live, the Master Gardener’s Club is a good source of low-cost compost (and heirloom tomatoe seedlings).
Yutsano
@The Other Bob: That would require them hearing the history beyond what their preachers have told them, which is that Mormonism is a Satanic cult. We’re not exactly talking about folks who go out of their way to do their own research here. I still think the market for neck braces will soar from all the whiplash as a cult member suddenly becomes acceptable to these preachers. After all, they have always been at war with Eastasia.
Anne Laurie
@Mnemosyne: You know, JeffreyW seems to have pretty good luck attracting hummingbirds… I bet you could contact him directly thru Whats4dinnersolutions.com and get the best advice…
smintheus
Don’t bother with anything but topsoil. Put down a layer of leaves in the bottom of your beds before filling in with soil. You can also mix in layers of leaves with layers of soil. The leaves will decompose within a few months and create the equivalent of compost, while also fluffing up your beds. Also increases drainage in case of a wet summer. If the leaves come from large trees, then they also add rare essential minerals collected from roots deep underground.
Anne Laurie
@smintheus:
Caveat, which may or may not apply to Cole’s yard: NO OAK LEAVES. They take forever to break down, and when they do, the tannins kill tender roots.
For urban gardeners, a certified Master Gardener based in Toronto told me that newspapers were a perfectly acceptable base layer for raised beds on untilled ground… and for top mulch, too. The Spousal Unit was dubious, but I ended up running a side-by-side comparison test in our largest front bed — ran out of the expensive landscaping cloth he’d bought & didn’t want to wait to finish the job, so half the transplants got poked thru newsprint & the other half cloth. No perceptible difference between the sides, then or in the several seasons since.
smintheus
@Anne Laurie: Right, oak leaves are terribly acidic and tough. Chestnut leaves are even slower to break down.
Newspaper makes a great weed blocker under a new raised bed, no need to buy cloth.
Oh, and if you’re growing potatoes (and you should be – we now swear by Adirondack Reds), don’t mix in manure or you’ll risk disease.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Anne Laurie: Walnut leaves are also a bad idea.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
I just finished a very intensely personal writing project. Or the first draft of it if I decide to do anything else with it. But it simply had to get written down. I think it got pretty sloppy towards the end, but it either doesn’t matter or I can fix it.
I’m kind of depressed now that it’s all out.
cckids
Ah, East Coasters. Frost, hah. Here in S. NV it is getting almost too HOT to start most plants. I’ve got 2 tomatoes & 4 serrano pepper plants that wintered over & are going strong. I’m attempting sweet corn this year, with no great hopes of success, but we shall see.
And, TTP (JMN) – hang in there. Maybe put it aside for a day or so & come back to it. Anything creative & personal will drain you for a while. Recharge, then reassess it & maybe it will be clearer what you want to do with it. The depression is sometimes a natural followup to dealing with getting it all out. Thinking of you.
abo gato
I put in four 4 x 4 raised beds a month ago. Had one cubic yard of garden soil and one cubic yard of compost delivered and mixed them together in each bed. Have quite a bit of both left over, but I am using the compost to mulch some of the tomatoes and other veggies I planted. I have also used both the dirt and the compost to mulch around some Meyer lemon trees and some tangerine trees we planted earlier too. No waste. Hoping that the two new tangerines will become as prolific as the one we already have. We planted that one, oh, maybe 12 or 13 years ago. I know it took about 6 or so years before we got any tangerines, but wow, the tree seems to be on an every other year path. This year there are thousands of little tangerines on it. I hope the new trees will be on an alternate year with the old tree. I have started feeling betrayed when I have to buy tangerines at the store. I have high hopes for my Meyer lemons too.
The Golux
There used to be a mushroom farm in eastern Connecticut, and we had three truckloads of mushroom mulch delivered over a couple of seasons for our shrubs and perennials. Pretty fragrant at first, but as a growing medium, it’s the shit.
currants
Don’t know about the soil thing–I had my area tilled and then dug around the pathways, filling in the boxes like that (and yes, I’m too old for that, wouldn’t do it that way again), and added to each box two bags each of (Coast of Maine) lobster compost and composted manure. In any case, when you’re adding matter later on, I highly recommend using certified organic compost. It’s more expensive, but … you want to eat what you grow, right?
I’d like to go another level up with my raised beds too–less bending in the future?–but not this year.
Kirk Spencer
I’ll make a note about the rosemary. It is, by preference, an evergreen shrub. If you do not keep it under constant trimming it will grow; mine are 2-3 feet tall and 4-5 feet across.
Plan accordingly for your container.
muddy
My raised bed is knee high, so I can sit on the edge of it. I got 1/3 topsoil and 2/3 MooDoo delivered. Everything growing out there is going crazy with excitement. So far peas, spinach, arugula, lettuce, beets and radishes. The dog jumped up and dug at the carrots, so none of those.
Everything else still in pots on the porch.
Kind of a skimpy asparagus harvest so far this year, it seems just now to be getting going, the weather has been so wrong I think it is confused.
keestadoll
John, with as many dinner gatherings you throw and given the copius amounts of veggie dishes you provide, a composter should be working for you 24/7.Do as others have suggested (ie: get some good topsoil) and amend with your own compost as you go.
imonlylurking
I’m a bit late to the party but I have raised beds so I’ll chime in:
I started with the Square Foot Gardening Formula, which is 1/3 compost, 1/3 peat moss, and 1/3 vermiculite. I very quickly grew tired of the peat moss. Now I use 1/2 topsoil and 1/2 vermiculite, which keeps everything light and fluffy.
When planting, I dig a bit deeper than necessary (easy, because it’s light and fluffy) and pull out a few cups of the soil mix, add an equal amount of compost, and use that to fill the planting hole.
Wait to mulch for a few days-you may need to add more soil or compost. I get free wood chips from a few blocks away so that’s what I use.
Since I’m not using a lot of compost in the bed, I add more to the plants every few weeks-I always plant tomatoes and peppers which are heavy feeders. This way I feel like I’m getting the compost where I want it to go instead of feeding the weeds.
This mix will settle-a LOT, the first couple of years-but it absolutely will not compact, at all. It’s excellent for root crops, if you’re into that sort of thing. You will need to water a lot-it drains well-but I just toss the hose in the bed and come back 10 minutes later.
General Stuck
@Anne Laurie:
I absolutely agree
dave
When you order topsoil be sure to ask if it is screened (to remove sod and rocks) or not. If the soil is screened you will probably need about 1.5 x the computed volume your boxes will hold. Screening fluffs it up a lot and it will take a few waterings to return it to a normal compaction.
Charlie, Philomath OR
I don’t grow too much food any more, since we have a great organic farm we like to support only a couple of miles away but I’ve been using raised beds for a long time mostly to grow flowering plants. After one spring where none of my bulb plants came back I discovered that watered beds apparently attract moles, voles, and gophers like roses do deer. I’ve built new beds (or added to old ones) 1/4″ hardware cloth on the bottoms. Seems to help. I’ve also taken to using mole repellant products, essentially castor oil in vermiculite.
Don’t know what the ground life is like at your place but I thought I’d mention it.