The night is still young, but everyone is declaring Walker the winner. Results are still coming in, but it looks like Walker will crush Barrett with a larger percentage victory than in 2010 (although with far fewer votes).
Big takeaway- being outspent 7-1 overcomes any Democratic GOTV, and if Barrett runs in the gubernatorial election again in the future, a narcissistic personality disorder should be name after him, because he clearly cares more about himself than the state.
Here’s to Wisconsin getting what they voted for and getting it hard.
Any news on the Senate recalls?
And now cue all the people saying that Obama might as well pack his bags because as Wisconsin goes so does the country.
are my comments going to moderation? i can’t post anything, with a link
I’m a little worried about the results… it’s a bit too lopsided to Walker’s favor. Did the superPAC money really make this much of a difference?
If so, the Democrats better start racking up more superPAC money of their own: if the Republicans spend their way to victory this November, we will officially be living in a kleptocracy where only the rich can win.
Don’t we have to wait to know what the margin of difference actually is?
millionairesbillionaires convincing minimum wage schlubs that teachers are overpaid because they can afford a house and a car. We are so screwed.
It’s not that Wisconsin dictates who wins in November.. its that it means the Republicans can buy their way to victory. Citizens United is really gonna screw this country over…
Somebody already started that on the last thread.
But seriously, folks. Maybe WI voters just didn’t buy into this whole recall thing. Not unusual really. They are historically rarely successful.
You know, a political philosophy based on taking care of other people starts to look a lot less appealing when the other people turn out to be such assholes.
I spent a good part of my childhood in Racine. I have great friends and family all over the state.
I feel bad saying this but, with that said, I couldn’t agree more. If that’s the will of the people then by all means, wallow it.
Fucking shame for the decent folks there.
Man, fuck you, Cole. Don’t you dare be bitter when people’s lives in this state are going to get materially fucking worse thanks to goddamn Citizens United–and that’s IF this shit stands, since only 11% of Milwaukee County precincts have reported.
I guarangoddamntee you that’s what Mara Liasson will be saying tomorrow morning beginning at 5:00 a.m. on NPR. She’s been gleefully predicting it for a week or more.
10% of Milwaukee Co is in, and Walker is basically tied with Barrett there.
That’s weird and there are a shitload of votes out there.
Someone tell me what the fuck is going on there.
I would not be surprised if an indictment in the John Doe case comes in the wake of the election. Prosecutors generally seem to avoid announcing charges just before an election for fear of being accused of playing politics, but with Walker still there the way is now clear to drop that boom.
Here’s to Wisconsin getting what they voted for and getting it hard.
Fuck you, Cole.
All Wisconsin has proven is that the USA is finished. Thanks to Citizens United, all elections will now be bought, why even bother with the facade?
@SiubhanDuinne: “A grim night for Obama.”
You and I are in agreement for once, John Cole.
And most especially, I wish an eternal fucking with a truckload of asiangrrl’s rusty pitchforks to anyone in Wisconsin who didn’t drag their ass to the polls today.
hells littlest angel
This is depressing. Can we just change the name of this country to Ignorantmotherfuckerland now, so I can stop wasting time maintaining any hope whatsoever?
I mean, it wasn’t even close.
I just saw a tweet by Chuck Todd in which he cited exit polling data that said about 60% of voters thought that the recall should be used for official misconduct. It’s possible a fair number of voters are voting against the recall, so to speak.
I guarangoddamntee you that’s what Mara Liasson will be saying tomorrow morning on NPR beginning at 5:00 a.m. She’s been gleefully predicting it for a week or more.
kay says its a bum link :-(
@Valdivia: No, the time for panic and recrimination is now. Waiting for facts is silly.
Could be that there is just a sizable portion of the Wiasconsin electorate that just doesn’t like the idea of a recall. They may not like Walker but they’re not willing to recall him.
even if Obama would have won today over Romney in the state. Gah. These people are idiots.
I am going to go watch some swedish crime series and check back in a while. I want to see what the result looks like when the numbers are in.
@hells littlest angel: United States of Alabama.
Agreed. It’s going to take pitchforks and other such items before things change. Maybe if the Chinese invade us or something.
I wonder if Walker will go after the police and firefighters unions right away or wait awhile?
Too bad, but hey, my governor is Bobby Jindal. Our noble experiment in self-government may be coming to its end.
What facts didn’t they already declare him the winner?
Nobody wanted to hear it, but I knew Walker had it the moment the Dems put last election’s loser up as their recall candidate.
Sounds reasonable…..but how would they all dare call it without statistical assurance? Isn’t that the one lesson that was learned from November 2000?
Big chunk of votes aren’t in yet, but it may not be enough.
As a Wisconsin resident these last 20ish years, allow me to say, go pound sand you fucking hillbilly prick. A substantial portion of us did not vote for Walker now or in 2010 and we most assuredly do not deserve the bullshit about to come slinging our way if this stands.
Wisconsin has voted for this dipshit twice. I have no sympathy.
If only Wasserman wasted a bunch of money to make it more like 6-1 eh Cole? That’s basically what you said a few days ago with that idiotic post you made.
Come on Cole. We both know you want to blame her. Wear that dunce cap of yours like a badge of honor! Let it all hang out and all that.
I hope I’m wrong, but this election could be the death knell of the labor movement, at least for the next few decades. The shitstorm of conservative propaganda and legislation will be a wonder to behold now that Walker has prevailed.
I hope there is some kind of Plan B for protecting the rights of workers, but I’m not at all confident.
@Linnaeus: Yes, I think there’s a chunk of voters who don’t like Walker and wouldn’t vote for him in the next normal election, but also don’t like the “no fair, do-over” aspect of a recall election. Still, seems like a special-snowflake kind of concern, and it’s hard to imagine someone bothering to turn out to vote against a recall and for Walker when they don’t actually want Walker to be their governor.
BTW, if Obama wins this year, Walker is going to be the #1 contender for Republicans in 2016. Book it.
My Mets blew a winning game in the 10th inning. It’s as my friend would say “A fucktastic night.”
I do wonder if the fact that it’s a recall election may have something to do with it. I did hear the sentiment among some voters that recalls really shouldn’t be used in this way. While I’ve been rooting for Democrats to win, I’ve also had a few doubts-Walker may deserve it, but what if recalls become de rigeur for any candidate who wins? You think the money boys are horrible now, imagine a political landscape where they recall every Democrat who wins anything, buying state legislatures in order to create recall provisions that weren’t there already, and continuing the policy of guarding any Republican faced with recall with a big wad of cash. If you’re asking right now, how could things get worse, that’s a good place to start. I ultimately don’t want recalls to become a regular feature of the political process.
I admit that as silver linings go, it’s not much.
How many days until Cole blames the real enemy for Barrett’s second loss in 20 months…
Obama and Predator Drones.
hells littlest angel
@Hunter Gathers: I don’t think you should take Cole’s imprecation personally. It’s like when crowds chant “Death to America” after we slaughter a batch of innocent civilians — it’s the body politic being denounced, not its individual members.
I donated money to the recall campaign, and I feel entitled to say — again, nothing personal — fuck y’all motherfuckers.
If the exit polling is right, and Obama was up 10+ points on Romney, some Obama supporters voted for Walker, or at least made a protest vote against the recall.
@eemom: How the fuck is Barrett losing the city of which he is governor?
That sounds crazy.
WTF is going on up there?
I wouldn’t read too much into that. These issues depend a lot on local conditions.
Like I posted on a friend’s facebook: if a state as unionized as Wisconsin can’t oust such a rabid Gilded Ager as Walker after what he tried to do, my faith in the American public’s ability to get its shit together on economics is all but gone.
He’ll be meeting Christie at the nominations, who’s my own guess of who they’ll nominate. Place your bets…
@Violet: Why wait? Walker is safe now for another 2 and a half years. Now is the best time to finish off all unions.
@Spaghetti Lee: Right — it leads to the prospect of an endless do-over, endless political ads, endless robo-calls… I’m not surprised people don’t want that to happen. That said, if you’re going to take the trouble to go out and vote, and Walker is on the ballot and you don’t like Walker, _don’t pull the lever FOR that fucker to make a point about your qualms about process_, get it?
No reason for gloom, but plenty of need for thoughtful reflection. As I said earlier:
Hopefully the Obama team has been wise enough to have gamed out a way to influence the news cycle and disrupt the WI story line.
In this election year, we know the good guys are going to be out spent, so we better not be out thought and out fought. If we are, 10 point leads in swing state polls in June will mean little in October.
This is going to be a very tough slog no matter what the polls in several key swing states were reflecting as of June 1. Obama may excel at chess, but his opposition is playing no-rules street fighting. This is campaign season and he chose to be the leader of the Democratic Party. It is a different skill set then being a fresh faced idealist with a fantastic back story. This time around, just being good will not be good enough.
On Lawrence O’Donnell right now there is a young woman called a “democratic strategist”, and her name is Krystal Ball.
I wonder if her parents are mean or if she married unwisely?
@Gravenstone: This. What an asshole comment to make on Cole’s part.
@karen: More than half the votes, including big sections of Dane and Milwaukee Counties, have not been counted. I remember networks calling Florida one way and then another.
Meh. As go recall elections, so goes this one. Wisconsin earned it’s fate in 2010.
I’m disappointed as anyone, but I would like to make two requests:
1: Can people stop running around like headless chickens declaring the death of civilization and society? Yes, this was disappointing. Keep in mind that if it was successful, it would have been only the third gubernatorial recall in American history. What political dynamics have changed? The state senate is still fifty-fifty, right? What’s changed for Walker now that he’s avoided getting kicked out of office that he couldn’t do before? We thought he had a good shot, took it, and missed. Republicans will crow about it for a few days then move on to something else.
2: I’m being as passionate as I can here: can we please, please, PLEASE, just this once, avoid the circular firing squad? Can we not waste endless fucking time on counterfactuals about Obama or Barrett or DWS or Kathleen Falk? Can we not talk about how this obviously means that people in Wisconsin are dumb hicks who deserve what they get? Can we just get that sometimes shit happens and move on? My God, if it really is as horrible as you all are saying, then the only chance for anything good to happen is if everybody with any hatred of the GOP shoves the fucking personality conflicts for once and works together.
@muddy: Krystal Ball was my local Congressional candidate in 2010. She didn’t do very well. But she’s actually surprisingly solid as a pundit. And the honchos at MSNBC love her to death.
@Omnes Omnibus: Here is the AP site:
Only about 15% of Milwaukee Co is in. How can Barrett be losing his own county?
Walker isn’t smart or smooth enough to win the nomination.
All this shit about DNC not wanting to offend the 10 percenters who don’t like the recall makes me want to puke. This is a massive clusterfuck that will metasticize into other states with Tea Baggers energized like little dust bunnies.
We already see how divided legislatures work. This is mega gubmint shutdown time, foks.
Well, you know, John . . . given that you helped get W elected, the whole Citizens United thing belongs at least partly in your court of accomplishments.
The wealthy Rs all around the nation clearly knew that this election mattered, and thanks to that giant tax cut in 2001 and the other one in 2003 — both of which also can be lined up next to the Roberts/Alito team as W’s achievements –they had some dough lying around to help keep the playing field tilted way over in their guy’s direction.
I’m sayin’, it seems just ever so slightly unfair to suggest that the people of WI have earned what’s coming at them now.
The good people of WI voted against W twice. They didn’t earn this all by themselves.
Also wasn’t there something about absentee ballots that had to be counted? Did Barrett concede?
@hells littlest angel:
Well, you know something? It is personal. When you tell people that they deserve to suffer because the state they lived in voted the wrong way, it’s very personal.
I cannot stand that kind of talk. It accomplishes precisely nothing and creates needless divisions.
@BGinCHI: Milwaukee County is at 14% so far. Dane is at 62%. It’s going to tighten.
Barrett has actually not conceded yet, I think.
@Spaghetti Lee: You do remember that Republicans already recalled Gray Davis in CA for no particular reason? Spent a lot of money to get a recall, then spent a lot more to replace him with an ignorant lout of an Austrian.
@BGinCHI: 60 of 479 precincts have reported in Milwaukee County. Wanna bet they are not in the city?
@karen: No concessions as of yet. He better not.
@Yutsano: Agreed. He’s way down from all the hayseed counties, but there are a lot of votes out there still. Long shot.
@BGinCHI: My guess is the outer parts of Milwaukee county came in first. Those areas will favor Walker.
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you, I am shocked they called it so early.
Has Barrett conceded?
@Violet: He doesn’t need to be either smart nor smooth. He can just run as the Unsinkable Scott Walker, the guy who liberals just can’t kill. The Kochs will muscle everyone else out of the way. He taps the Republican id of hatred and destruction and total war. He’s going to be the guy. Even if that criminal investigation materializes, it’ll be just another moment where They tried to bring him down and failed.
@danimal: “I hope I’m wrong, but this election could be the death knell of the labor movement”
1 an incumbent “winning” a recall is return to status quo, not a gain, anti-labor is on the defense, even if succesful they did not gain ground
2 The WI senare is evenly split 16 D 16 R – but 1 of those R’s voted against the union stripping bill, right to work for less wont pass the WI senate
3 Walker was able to to bust the unions b4 the recall election, in Ohio, the union busting got put on hold by the repeal referendum – and got beat 60/40
4 despite union membership plummiting since the union stripping bill, and being told that since we only won 2 of the senate recalls we were dispirited – the gov, lt gov, and 4 more senators were forced to defend themselves in recall elections
in short – dont mourn, organize
Amanda Terkel from HuffPo, via twitter, said 17% of Obama supporters voted for Walker, according to polling data she had.
The thing about Citizens United, and it was a shitty decision with horrible implications for our democracy, is that for it to do any damage it still depends on the rank stupidity of the average American voter. The tidal wave of ads only works if you’re dumb enough to be swayed by them despite your actual experience living under this cretin’s reign dir the past year and a half.
And if this really did come down to a chunk of nominally Democratic voters whose delicate sensibilities were violated at some perceived misuse of the recall provision, well, fuck them.
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I bet that’s right.
I wish those young bucks would put down their t-bones and get those votes counted.
@Yutsano: I don’t think there are enough votes left for it to tighten that much, even with most of Milwaukee uncounted. Perhaps down to 52-48. I’d love to be proven wrong.
WaPo is saying 17% of Obama supporters voted for Walker. It seems a lot of people voted against the recall, as opposed to voting for Walker per se.
hells littlest angel
@Spaghetti Lee: You’re just asserting that it’s personal because you say it’s personal. Hell, further up I said we should change the name of this country to Ignorantmotherfuckerland. If you live in this country, do you think I should apologize for calling you an ignorant motherfucker? I fucking hope not.
CW in LA
You know, in Kahleeforneeya when Darrell Issa & pals decided to recall Gray Davis, I don’t remember any principled qualms about using the recall to stage a do-over election. Of course, out here the Rethugs dangled a shiny object/movie star in front of the electorate, which no doubt made a big difference.
But yes, we did indeed get what we voted for, and got it hard.
This just in:
The WaPo editorial page calls the 2012 Presidential Election for Mitt Romney.
Hey Cole, maybe the good people of WI were using their constitutionally protected right to express collectively that they did not agree with the expressed intent of this recall. So as one esteemed blog host has said on a few occasions, “Lighten up Frances.” Also, too.
in his victory speech later tonight, I hope the gleeful governor remembers to thank those most responsible for tonight’s debacle: Messrs. Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito; First Amendment champions, all.
Some Wisconsinites deserve what they’ll get. Some.
There were over 900,000 signatures on the recall petitions. Does anyone really think that the number of votes against Walker will not be similar? Barrett may lose, but, fuck, calling it now and getting all panicky about the future of Obama, the Dems, or organized labor before all the results are in is fucking stupid.
Jay in Oregon
Yeah, I’m kinda surprised that John spouted that bullshit, after the soul-searching he did on the earlier post.
Sure, there may be a swath of ignorant Republican fuckwads who just saw the recall as a way to stick it to the eeevil libruls, coupled with a dose of low-information voters; if they voted for him today, they don’t get to claim buyers’ remorse if he and his cronies really get going the second time around. (And who knows what tales of funny business with the voting will arise in the days to come; the closer the official tally is, the easier it is for Republicans to put their thumb on the scale.)
But seriously, John? “Here’s to Wisconsin getting what they voted for and getting it hard”? After you fell all over yourself demonizing Debbie Wasserman-Schultz for not doing enough to help the Democrats in that state, and the heaping plate of crow that you ate as a result?
Jude, Gravenstone, and everyone else in WI who busted their ass to GOTV, and get to the polls, and get people they know to the polls to oust Walker have every right to tell you to go fuck yourself. You earned that, pal.
Nope. The one lesson that was learned from November 2000 is that if you call it for the Republican early enough, it’s hard for the Democrat to have an untainted victory.
I am struggling with that, too. I just don’t get the supposed margin of victory. It’s really confusing. I don’t see anyone In the media really questioning it, either. Fuckedupedness.
@CW in LA:
It wasn’t a total loss. At least we got to see Darrell Issa cry when Ahhnold basically stole the recall election from him.
@Hill Dweller: Can you imagine being one of those people, though? You make a special point of showing up to vote _for_ the biggest assface in the Upper Midwest because it hurts your conscience to misuse a recall election this way? Hell of a way to make a point about integrity.
Democracy is doomed. I want to move to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, or the UK.
@Hill Dweller: “WaPo is saying 17% of Obama supporters voted for Walker.” DougJ’s totebaggers and probably the polling the DNC had that made them leery of getting involved in the first place. Obama can’t afford to alienate that group if he wants to take Wisconsin. Assuming that poll is true, it will be interesting to see if now that they have pulled the lever for Walker, the totebaggers will continue down the path and find themselves to voting for Romney.
k, bad as it sucks, let’s get ONE thing straight: emmessemm bullshit about this being any kind of harbinger of November is TOTAL fucking bullshit, and anyone who buys into it is an idiot.
There. At least I headed that one off.
They are likely calling it so early because the fix is in as it was in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. Thus no need to wait for, you know, actual results.
The most entertaining part of this thread is Spaghetti Lee running around telling everyone to “shut up,” lest something honest and straightforward be said.
Also too: It is notable the way Obama showed great leadership in putting skin in the game by showing up in WI and aggressively campaigning for the recall. I bet a lot of WI Dems will follow his example this Fall when he’s asking for their help.
I’ll keep it simpler and more direct than Cole – I hope every union member who voted Walker tonight enjoys being in a right to work state next year. Because Walker and Fitzgerald will take this as a mandate to go right to work.
Ed Schultz is reporting that Barrett is refusing to concede it, so far.
1) Obama is ahead in Wisconsin by 12 pts.
2) you’re just not gonna be able to unseat an incumbent of either party who has a 50-50 approval rating. An incumbent’s approval rating has to be underwater by double digits before voters kick someone out.
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
GOP owns this entire goddamn country except at the Presidency, and they’ve basically neutered how effective Obama can be at anything.
Face it. GOP has fucking won this entire fucking country. Look forward to massive bullshit codified on a grand scale at this rate because they have a giant fucking carte blanche to kill Unions and Labor dead, because HUZZAH, FUCK THE UNIONS, KILL THE COMMIES!!!!!! still wins elections outrageously.
Fuck it all.
I agree. Cole never ceases to prove what an asshole he can be.
At least he wont’ be running again in the next election. Losing twice is probably enough to end that pipe dream.
Just a reminder for all the ‘Democracy is DOOMED! Labor is DOOMED! We’re all DOOMED!” crowd, the Senate is locked up at 16-16, and at least one Republican-Schultz, I believe, has shown that he’s willing to vote against Walker’s bills. Can we please calm down for one. fucking. minute?
That’s what had me nervous about the recall strategy in the first place; Walker’s numbers weren’t great, but they weren’t really low either.
No, I can’t.
@Hill Dweller: I agree not everyone in Wisconsin is going to deserve what they get, but oh are those people going to deserve it.
The problem, as I see it, is less about who won and a lot more about what kind of encouragement this gives the GOP. Here in Minnesota we’ve had a birds’ eye view of what’s going on over there, and both in WI and MN we’ve had GOP politicians *campaign* on creating jobs, lowering debt, etc. and then when they got into office, the legislature became an absolute shitstorm of incompetence. MN’s government shut down last year for two weeks because the GOP couldn’t come up with a budget that wasn’t complete bullshit, and even after that was finally signed, the rest of the term was wasted on 1) a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, 2) Voter ID (which is virtually non-existent in this state) and 3) the Vikings stadium. Absolutely ZERO time spent on either creating jobs OR on reducing the deficit, because apparently spending a billion dollars for a football team is more important than the other 4,999,976 people in this state.
And then in WI over there they’ve got Walker who gets elected under the same premise and then the second he’s in office, immediately brings the hammer down on public employees. It’s bullshit.
So now that the recall failed, what have we learned? Well, apparently we’ve learned that it doesn’t matter if you have absolutely no intention of governing and every intention of pushing your privately funded agenda for your greatest contributors, because apparently that works since people are suckers and will believe whatever the political commercials and robo-calls tell them. And in the meantime, you can use your position in office to fuck everyone else right up the ass without lube and dismantle the democratic process so that it becomes even easier next time. Great. Expect to see that in every swing state in every election from now on.
This. Despair is counterrevolutionary.
Every state has somewhat different local politics. Walker’s mojo didn’t help Kasich’s bill very much.
Wisconsin doesn’t get to claim they didn’t know what they’ve voted for, heard that bullshit till I wanted to puke. Voted GOP as though that was some kind of fucking mystery?
It just went 55-44. I wonder now…
Fuck it, I hope Cole gets food poisoning when he comes to Madison and spends most of his trip shitting himself in his hotel room. Fair is fair.
Well, that sucks.
Here are a few things to keep in mind so you don’t do the full Cole and make a fool out of yourself in response to Walker’s win, though.
Sometimes we get too tribal about elections. We think in terms of our side and their side. Of wins and losses. But truthfully politics has nothing to do with sides. A majority of Wisconsin voters want to do things differently than we would do them. I’m sure we all agee that they were manipulated to some degree into believing what they do by a weak media and a political system rigged by money. But that’s how politics works for the time being and we have to work to change it and learn to deal with it for the time being. Personally, I think Walker would have won regardless of advertisement cash.
The best attitude is a bit of fear about the damage Walker will do and some hope that he might be cajoled into acting less horribly by local political forces. Anger at voters is pointless and childlike. People made their choice. We have to disagree and move on. But this isn’t a loss that portends a losing streak, as the Stealers just lost a game.
The mistake that some Democratic activists have made is three-fold. 1. They assumed voters would be mad enough to recall Walker. As we now see, voters don’t like to admit mistakes so quickly to change their vote. Recalls are tough. And Walkerism is more popular in WI than we like to admit. 2. We’ve assumed that a succesful recall would’ve shamed extremist republicans and made them less bold, and more willing to compromise perhaps even nationally.3. We’ve assumed that a win here would lead to more wins elsewhere, a winning-streak.
Really, assumption 3 is ridiculous. It only seems plausible because we think of politics like sport. “If the Yankees beat the Sox, those jerks will stop their bragging. Our side will win and theirs will shrivel away.”
Assumption 2 is false, too. The only way we deafeat the extremists and end or reverse their policies is to get people to see over time the effects of extremism in the world around them. This will take years, unfortunately. As people see that this new brand of Republican ruins anything it touches, they will learn to stop voting for them. It will take time. And we will have to help this process by arguing with our right leaning friends, and the muddled centrists, but it will happen. Human beings suck at evaluating ideologies and politicians. They learn by seeing results. After Walker does enough damage, he’ll lose credibility. We jumped the gun.
Look at what happened with Romney in MA or Bush II nationwide. Of course, the Republican party will survive in some form, but so will unions and better times.
Daily Show total fail tonight. Wyatt Cenac is doing about the worst straight up “both sides do it” bullshit about the recall.
Perhaps Walker is more popular than you all give him credit for. That’s more likely than the reason being that he outspent his opponent, because this was an election that was engineered by his opponents, and they surely came out in droves.
Ok, Barrett just conceded
@Yutsano: I don’t think there are enough votes out there. 200K vote margin. Hope I’m wrong.
@David Koch: Right on both counts.
Getting panicky about all those things even AFTER all of tonight’s results are in is even fucking stoopider, but I am sensing its inevitability in the manner of a snowball barreling downhill in a blizzard.
Our only option is to step aside and avert our eyes. Else we shall be crushed under the weight of teh stoopid.
Another Halocene Human
@SuzieC: The UK? Jeez. Maybe Scotland. Especially if they go independent.
Have you listened to BBC lately? 1%er apologist radio. And they’re right little shits every time they interview a leader or minister from any formerly colonized country (post 1800–USAians get a nice fellating).
Not to mention middle-class, dear.
It should since it’s total BS.
The DNC initially gave ~$800K to Barrett, which was historically substantial, and after their second fundraising push reached ~$1.4m. The DGA gave ~3 million. 2/3rds of the Barrett offices were OFA offices (60 of them).
The National party did their part.
@BGinCHI: At this point I just want to see what the final numbers are. There are enough outstanding votes for the decision to flip but he’d have to basically sweep the rest of Milwaukee and Dane for that to happen.
Wait. NBC called the election with people still voting in three liberal counties. That’s some bullshit right there. Especially since they vowed never to do that again after the debacle in FL in 2000 when they called while people were still voting in the panhandle.
@Gravenstone: As a Wisconsin resident these last 20ish years, allow me to say, go pound sand you fucking hillbilly prick. A substantial portion of us did not vote for Walker now or in 2010 and we most assuredly do not deserve the bullshit about to come slinging our way if this stands.
You know, I think it’s kind of sad that some people can’t accept the reality of the fact that their state is full of assholes. It doesn’t matter if 49.9% of you are good people. If 50.1% vote to fuck themselves over, fuck themselves over they will.
The only way we deafeat the extremists and end or reverse their policies is to get people to see over time the effects of extremism in the world around them
This is SUCH a typical weak-kneed liberal response– “if conservatives beat us badly enough, they’ll start feeling sorry for us, and we’ll win next time around!” Why are liberals such gluttons for abuse?
Winning makes you feel good. Beating on someone when taking an extremist position feels good. And that feeling can serve as a pretty darn good substitute for the decent living standards you used to have. And that’s what conservatives get out of it. Everyone’s suffering. Republicans offer at least a way to feel good during the suffering by scapegoating other and giving them a tribe to be part of… a tribe that wins.
Oh well, it was always a long shot. I also don’t buy that this is some sort of preview of the Nov elections. He’ll probably get his ass sent to jail anyway so fuck him.
Dude. You are slowly stepping forth from your admirable Nordic equanimity unto the hysterically vengeful ways of we Mediterraneans. I like it.
People worried about November should check Charlie Cook. Look at the handful of states that Obama needs to win, on top of the solid Dem states. Romney has to spend money NOW in VA, NC, IA. He has to batten down those states (not likely, but I’m an optimist) and THEN move to to the behemoths of OH and/or FL to win. Hard hard hard road. Especially when your candidate is mister “I am nothing and have no real identity to speak of.”
[quote]I hope Cole gets food poisoning when he comes to Madison and spends most of his trip shitting himself in his hotel room.[/quote]
Cole shouldn’t come to Wisconsin, nor should any other progressive.
I’m calling for it right now.
Tonight? It’s been “both sides do it” for months. Stewart has become a massive douchebag for some reason.
Self-pity is a character flaw, I’ve learned.
That’s what this is.
It accomplishes nothing. WE’RE DOOMED IT’S HOPELESS CITIZENS UNITED PRESIDENT ROMNNEY DON’T BOTHER GAME OVER JUST KILL YOURSELF DOOM FEEL SORRY FOR ME IN MY DOOM AND FUCK ALL OF YOU WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE THROUGH YOUR INCOMPETENCE FOR MY DOOM!
It’s also cowardly. It’s a way to give up fighting by claiming the cause is lost.
I’m sorry, but it just isn’t going to fix anything.
We’re going to be here for a long time. There is no excuse to stop fighting. The demographics are against the Rethugs in the long haul, and even in the medium haul. Wisconsin is not the whole USA, Walker is an incumbent and not Romney, this is a recall not a general, etc etc.
Yes things suck. I’m giving more to http://movetoamend.org , and going to hit the phones hard for Obama and the Dems this fall.
@Chuck Butcher: I am sure that I will become worm food way before I will understand why seemingly moderate folks of average intellect vote for the GOP. But then, getting to know the Cole thought process has been insightful. Some seem to have in insipid emotional response to things that puzzle them. The GOP has fine tuned their pitch to those people. Yet after getting hoodwinked once, many go back for more.
The prophet Nostradumbass
The state Senate races are all going GOP as well.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m sure the extortionists in Wisconsin will be begging us for more money soon enough.
Maybe you could set up a permanent Wisconsin fundraiser called “Save These Stupid Fuckers From Themselves”.
@tam1MI: And when WI votes solidly for Obama and other Dems in November, will you call off your boycott? Are you still avoiding California because of Ah-nuld? Massachusetts for Weld and Romney?
@eemom: “Don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.”
Cole pissed me off. I know he is an ex-wingnut, but having any kind of wingnut tell me I deserve to suffer…. Well, let’s just say that I don’t handle it well.
@Hill Dweller: Republicans had no such issue with recalling Gray Davis. Well, neither did a lot of Democrats.
What’s irritating is that the vote wasn’t even close.
@tam1MI: I’m on board with a boycott of any state I never had any intention of going to. I may go my whole life boycotting the deep south.
ETA- I’m not saying I would never go there, I just don’t have any plans to go there. Boycotting such places is a pretty low-cost protest.
@fuckwit: This. A thousand times.
Well, I think it’s pretty reasonable to boycott states that have essentially legalized homocide—FL comes to mind.
This. The whole ‘boycott (state)!’ thing is stupid. Christ, you want to talk about things that accomplish nothing?
[quote]And when WI votes solidly for Obama and other Dems in November, will you call off your boycott?[/quote]
Wisconsin isn’t going to go for Obama and other Dems in November (remember they gave us Paul Ryan). It showed it’s stripes tonight – the vote wasn’t even close.
Wisconsin is a deep red, anti-labor state. It’s Alabama with snow.
@Spaghetti Lee: I think it’s great. I have to do nothing, I accomplish nothing, but still get that righteous feeling.
In all seriousness, this is a silly idea.
@Tyro: @Tyro: And unadulterated nihilism feels even better. Progressives needed to fight this fight, win or lose. They lost, but don’t roll in the stink of it. Get ready for the next round.
I keep seeing this talking point. Where is the breakdown?
I’ll bet it compares just the money that the Barrett campaign spent against all money spent by Walker and any of his allied groups.
It overlooks the money spent by unions and any of their allied groups.
@tam1MI: You don’t sound very informed. You may want to look at some recent presidential polling in WI, including the one conducted, oh, today.
At least Colbert is still remembering to blink occasionally.
But if anyone hasn’t figured out yet why the Democrats are still playing by Marquess of Queensbury rules against an opposition hopped up on bath salts, it’s because mofos like Stewart and the 17% are too cowardly to go along with any other tactics.
Another Halocene Human
Yup. Remember all the SUVs with W stickers during the first term? I got the distinct impression that it wasn’t about ideology, it was about being on the winning team.
Probably the same folks who went all crybaby half a decade later when the Iraq war didn’t exactly go their way.
@tam1MI: Holy shit did you just go from zero to stupid in record time. The recall election results were for several reasons not because Wisconsin went deep red overnight.
@tam1MI: Have you seen the exit polls? Obama is thumping Romney among the people that voted tonight, which were overwhelmingly Walker supporters.
Oh, shut up, you ignorant putz.
EDIT: Seriously, “the state that gave us Paul Ryan?” I think you mean, the 1 congressional district statewide out of 8 that gave us Paul Ryan, it being a suburban district all but designed to elect Republicans. Christ amighty.
Another Halocene Human
Especially when your candidate is saying dumb things like “I need 50.1% to win” this late in the game. I know we all fell asleep during that lesson in fourth grade about the electoral college, but a serious candidate for president should know better. What planet is Romney on, seriously?
@tam1MI: Is that MI in your ‘nym related to Michigan? If so, how is your governor doing? Further, you are uninformed about Wisconsin if you are not being disingenuous. Show me a state that has never produced a wingnut for Congress.
I don’t like to call troll, but, when a new ‘nym shows up spouting nonsense, I can speculate.
[quote]You don’t sound very informed. You may want to look at some recent presidential polling in WI, including the one conducted, oh, today.[/quote]
the only poll that counts is one that gets conducted on Election Day. You may want to look at the results of the blowout in Wisconsin that was conducted, oh, today.
@tam1MI: Girl, please. You sound a like a twelve year old that just discovered Abby Hoffman. What the hell would boycotting Wisconsin do? This is a primary and a recall election. If the voters decided this was the idiocy they could live with, then fuck’em. Sorry to those above who live there, but them’s the breaks. They want to wait for a regular election, so that’s going to have to be the time. Boycotting a state for not voting the way you think it should? Ridiculous.
hells littlest angel
@Hill Dweller: I have a very difficult time imagining a sane human being who supports both Obama and the goggle-eyed homonculus. I’m not saying such humans don’t exist, I just don’t get them.
@tam1MI: I smell copulator of rodentia. Republican plant anyone?
@hells littlest angel: We have a lot of drunks in WI. Just sayin’.
tam’s is not a new nym. But I don’t remember her or him being this d-u-m.
I’m pretty depressed and scared now, guys. Joe Walsh is in my state’s Congressional delegation, so Illinois is obviously going to go for Romney.
@mdblanche: Despite running a fraction of the negative ads Willard and his corporate masters are running, the media is already criticizing Obama for running a negative campaign. They’re also criticizing him for holding a fundraiser with celebrities and Bain and the weather, etc.
It’s a toxic cocktail of “balance” and the desperate need for a horse race.
hells littlest angel
To no one in particular: The recall election in Wisconsin was a really big fucking deal. And we lost. If we can’t make intemperate remarks tonight, when the fuck can we?
@shortstop: New to me, but okay. Recent head trauma? Just being an asshole?
@shortstop: I like you when you’re snarky. :)
@hells littlest angel:
They weren’t for Walker per se, just against the recall.
It makes no sense to me, but a significant amount of people seemingly felt that way.
Boycotting a state for not voting the way you think it should? Ridiculous.
Next you’re going to tell me that it never works.
Boycotting a state for not voting the way you think it should? Ridiculous.
Next you’re going to tell me that it never works.
I understand that sentiment, while at the same time feeling very sorry for our Wisconsin friends who worked so hard to get rid of this scumbag. They don’t deserve it; even the mindless schlubs who voted to keep Walker don’t deserve it, despite their willful ignorance. For them, experience will have to be the dear school they learn in, since being fools they will learn in no other.
But it makes me wonder if the rest of the country, or large parts of it, aren’t going to require some kind of an object lesson before they’ll amend their bad voting habits, and if Wisconsin isn’t going to be that example. The union stuff won’t cause anyone to bat an eye in this part of the country, because it’s always been right to work (for whatever crumbs are tossed your way) and the rubes here have been brainwashed for generations on the great ebil of teh unions. What it makes me hope most is for Walker to try some of the anti-hunter stuff that was being considered – selling off public lands, fencing off private lands, privatizing public waterways, etc. Telling Buford that from here on out, he’s going to have to fork over $2K for the privilege of hunting on formerly public land sold to some rich douchebag would really catch the attention of a good portion of the blue collar and redneck demographic in the south. It wouldn’t even have to actually all get passed, I just want to see him try to do it.
So I’m split on this. On the one hand, I really do feel for the people who have fought the good fight. On the other hand, if some people are so stupid that they can’t identify a transparent douche even after he whips off the mask…well, at some point, wouldn’t we better off if those folks somehow learned that if it looks like a transparent douche, talks like a transparent douche, and acts like a transparent douche, then you should expect it to BE a transparent douche? I don’t think, at this point, that most of them can learn it without getting personally fucked over, hard.
Among a group of voters that went overwhelming for Walker, Obama is beating Willard by double digits.
because he clearly cares more about himself than the state.
Here’s to Wisconsin getting what they voted for and getting it hard.
Why would we want this to happen, much less toast it? Some of us live here and didn’t vote for it.
@Hill Dweller: I think we need to remember that in many states (mine, not so much), party crossover is fairly common. Not saying IN and WI are interchangeable or even particularly comparable,
but when I did GOTV work in Indy in 2008, I was amazed at how many people were supporting both Obama and Daniels. Yes, I’d think both Walker’s and Daniels’s records would have put those “bipartisans” off by now, but many people just don’t draw the kind of lines we do.
Among a group of voters that went overwhelming for Walker, Obama is beating Willard by double digits.
And of course we can absolutely count on these people to be in Obama’s corner until the bitter end, and not decide to flip their vote because they decide for some bullshit reason to “send a message”. And of course the Republicans wouldn’t even dream of targeting those voters with floods of lies to gin up such a reason, amirite? November’s in the bag. Obama’s Da Man. We’re all as safe as houses.
Too early to call it? TPM has Walker at 54% with 89% of districts reporting. That is over.
Instead of tossing the scumbag, voters ratified the election of 2010. Wisconsin is in for a very rough couple of years, I am afraid.
Putting aside all the bullshit, what’s sad about tonight is something along the lines of the Charlie Pierce piece AL
parrotedquoted earlier: the recall election was an actual grass roots fight-back against the Koch/teatards. It’s tragic that it got as far as it did and still, somehow, failed.
Because sometimes Cole is a gigantic asshole who deserves to get food poisoning and shit himself for a week.*
*Yeah, I might hold on to this one for a while. As a friend of mine says, grudges are light and easy to carry.
@Kris: You may well be the only adult commenting here.
Everyone is indulging themselves in an orgy of emotion.
@Jennifer: I feel less than sanguine about the possibility of many folks blaming the actual perps even after having been fucked over hard.
If you can’t indulge yourself in an orgy of emotion just after your side suffered a humiliating loss, when can you?
We’ll all be rational and reasonable tomorrow.
Tonight is the night for alcohol and recriminations.
@Xenos: Maybe. Walker has a little problem called John Doe. He could be indicted as quickly as tomorrow.
The prophet Nostradumbass
In another election, Orly Taitz has, so far, 49,494 votes, for 3.1% of the total in the California Senate primary.
Given the number of voters who also appear to support the President, it looks a lot more likely that they’re anti-recall and figure they can live with Walker, like him or not, rather than serious supporters. They may be mistaken about being able to live with him, but that doesn’t make them stupid or evil or any of the other hysterical, overblown descriptives that have been thrown around at them. People make mistakes: I’ve read that some folks associated with this very blog actually voted for George W. Bush – twice. Not that I would believe that, of course.
Fuck it, I am going to bed. I have work to do tomorrow. Some of you can go ahead and eat a bag of salted dicks. To the rest of you, good night.
@The prophet Nostradumbass: But not all the votes have been counted yet!
@tam1MI: I think you’ve been overserved in both categories.
There will come a time when Americans will understand that election vote-tampering has happened and has been happening, and that the anomalies and strange last minute events weren’t mere coincidences, that they were clues and actual evidence.
Until then, rest easy. It’s all just conspiracy-nut stuff.
@Hill Dweller: Wait, wait. They’re saying it’s Obama’s fault I didn’t get to see the transit of Venus today? This changes everything!
The less-than-1% people who vote for Republicans richly and deeply deserve everything their rule will bring to pass. The rest of us decent people do not. I write this not as a committed Democrat, the Democrats on balance suck, but Republicans are taking us in the opposite direction of where we need to go, and doing so at a gallop.
My vote is for secession. Us or them. It doesn’t matter.
I’m out too. I don’t like to complain about these things, but this mobile site really does suck. Night.
@lacp: Evil, no. Stupid? I think yes.
In all honesty, I feel the same as Cole. And I’m not an ex-rightie.
The feeling will no doubt pass and maybe even soon, especially as we dig into some of the exit polls (if that’s possible). But at the moment I feel like: FU, Wisconsin. I know you got inundated with corporate cash, but don’t you bear any responsibility for this? I wish I’d kept my money instead of sending it off to Wisconsin.
And yeah, I know: Corporate cash can happen anywhere, and that’s a scary thought.
But for now, jeez louise.
And hey: Isn’t it possible that “Wisconsin getting it hard” would wake the state and the rest of the country up to the importance of fighting Citizens United?
Can’t drink. Interferes with my pain meds.
I had to take this election straight.
I envy those of you who can drink this one off, I really do.
That kind of learning just doesn’t happen. Whatever the dynamics of this race that led people who probably voted for Doyle, say, to vote for Walker (or whatever the voting profiles were – I’m completely flummoxed as to what it was in people’s minds that actually led them to do this), those dynamics are done now. the next election will be the next election, and people who actually swing between parties in their voting never learn permanent lessons of the kind you’re talking about. Or rarely. They learn enough of a lesson to win an election, maybe two; that’s it. That’s not enough to rationalize the kind of damage – largely via example for GOP leaders in the rest of the country – that Walker has done is will now do. There’s no upside to Wisconsinites now getting what around a quarter of them just voted for.
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
Missus daverave and I voted for Orly! Unfortunately DiFi’s got that seat until the end of time.
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, good night, and thanks for whatever it is you have been doing that you have not been able to talk about.
I am very worried that this is a one-way ratchet. Without the industry to revive private sector unions, the destruction of union power will be unreversable. In twenty years everybody will look around and wonder how they got to be so poor and desperate. Maybe even then they will not be able to figure it out.
Yeah, but when he’s being that giant asshole, in his mind what principle is driving him to have this wish. I’m all for people getting what’s coming to them, but half of us don’t have this coming to us.
@Joey Giraud: Thanks Joey. I am emotionally upset about what will happen to friends who work in Wisconsin. But I don’t feel like somebody “beat me.” Politics isn’t a game.
As a Wisconsinite who’ll suffer, I agree with this part with fewer reservations than you have. Scorch the damn earth, as far as I’m concerned, and me with it, so long as the white-flighters get to reap what they’ve sown.
I’ll admit to some malice, there. Am I becoming the kind of spiteful asshole I’ve always hated? Well, it’s about time.
Will Ed Schultz be on suicide watch tomorrow?
Maybe I’m sensitive, but I feel like Wisconsin gets this much more reliably than other states when shit goes tits up in politics here. I kind of understand feeling like we deserve what we are now going to get (we do to the degree any of us could have done more to prevent this), but then from there to FU to the entire state? I don’t get it. Let’s kicka guy while he’s down, sounds fun, eh? F *you*. Seriously.
Perhaps more inane, at times like this, all of a sudden an entire state meges into one entity, one agent. Is that how you feel about your Tea Party neighbors down the block – you’re jast all one unified entity called Ohio, or whatever?
No, “Wisconsin” doesn’t deserve any responsibility for this; it’s not a being with cognition or anything like free will. Various people in Wisconsin deserve varying degrees of responsibility, but so do a lot of people outside Wisconsin, especially if we’re talking about extra-Wisconsin fallout, since so many people did so much outside of Wisconsin to see to it that this race went this way so that that national fallout would happen, and others who didn’t want that fallout did so much less than they could have to stop it.
Wisconsin isn’t a person.
@Lynn Dee: You are right. Fuck me. Fuck my family. Fuck my friends. Fuck 45% of the state. We deserve it. Did you ever say anything like “Don’t blame me; I didn’t vote for Bush”? If so, step smartly back from the “Fuck you, Wisconsin” comments; you have no ground on which to stand.
Oh of course. I know all that. I wasn’t born yesterday.
But you’re just going to have to accept the fact that people are going to have all kinds of reactions to this. Dems from all across the country invested a lot in this, financially, emotionally and so on. So we’re gonna react.
So fuck you if it’s all too much for you.
And same to you, omnes. Fuck you if my reaction is too much for you.
This race was a vanity project.
The President was right to stay away from it.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@daverave: I was tempted, but in the end, couldn’t bring myself to do it, and voted for Feinstein.
@Omnes Omnibus: Chicagoland still loves you, OO.
Mrs. BG off with the X man to visit friends up around Madison for couple days. I’ve instructed her to raid your beer supply.
Hang in there.
When has it ever? The only case I can think of is the disaster of Prop 13 in California. That was intended to be a nation-wide phenomenon, and thank god it did not catch on as intended.
This is more fundamental. It is about the FaxNews vision of America and American history being too deeply planted in the minds of middle America. A generation that was educated and supported an enriched by the New Deal and postwar institutions like public sector unions, deciding that the next generation should fucking starve.
I won’t say ‘to hell’ with Wisconsin, but I will say ‘to hell’ with white ethnic centrists over the age of 45. Ratfuck ’em and take their benefits away, and give them to the new Black Panther Party. Even if we have to create the new Black Panther Party to do it.
hells littlest angel
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m someone who said, “Don’t blame me; I didn’t vote for Bush.” But I didn’t demand that only the 401ks of the people who voted for Bush get wiped out, or that only Bush voters lose family members in Iraq. Yeah, you personally are going to suffer under Walker, but the bitterness isn’t personal. Wisconsin just joins the list of states where I’m no longer willing to help out. That’s what I mean when I say, Fuck Wisconsin. You all are on your own as far as I’m concerned, just like Mississippi, Arizona, Florida and the other states I have written off.
@Lynn Dee: Yeah, I am sorry your investment didn’t pay off. Obviously, your emotional involvement.is both more significant and more important than that of people who live in the state.
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
I didn’t vote Feinstein, but I couldn’t stomach Taitz, either. I went for one of the Lesser Democrats on the ballot (can’t remember which one off the top of my head).
And I abstained entirely from voting for Prop 28 because I object to term limits in principle so I couldn’t bring myself to choose between the rock and the hard place.
Interesting that the majority of Wisconsinites say they would rather have Walker as governor than have Romney as president. What a ringing endorsement for Mittmentum.
To all those who fought so hard in Wisconson, you’re an inspiration to the Progressive Movement. This motherfucker in Oakland that phone banked thinks you all are the shit. Fuck ANYONE you sez different.
It’s one battle, it ain’t the war.
To quote my favorite movie of all time with a caveat, This war is NEVER gonna end.
So what you’re saying is a solid number of Democratic-leaning voters decided they don’t care much for Democrats actually using any tool at their disposal to fight Republicans.
Oh for pete’s sake. Did I say that? No, I did not. But I do see that your reaction isn’t particularly stellar either.
In fact, maybe you should get your spleen vented. It seems to be overflowing.
Probably not. He’s an actor. None of these democrat schills care for working people. Just like the Hannity’s of the world don’t actually care about the dittoheads they ensare.
Interesting, all these folks who don’t live there giving a big ol’ “Fuck You” shout-out to WI. I sorta thought it was the people who lived there who would actually be the ones to live with the consequences of the vote. In this I am obviously mistaken.
Oh God, all the “OMG FU Wisconsin!” people need to shut up. First off, what fucking nirvana do you live in that never elected any stupid politicians? Second, it’s a bullshit fucking way to think. It’s spite, nothing more. People here occasionally wonder what it will take, if anything, to rebuild a strong middle class in this country. Well, I’ll tell you what fucking won’t. All this “My state can beat up your state, neener neener” bullshit. Stop, right now.
@Kane: It is the fallacy of split government… back the the 80s when Dukakis ran against Bush the same year Teddy K ran for re-election, Teddy won something like 85% of the vote, and Dukakis won 55%. 30% of the electorate voted for Teddy but thought Dukakis was too liberal.
I suspect that in the same way, a fair chunk of Wisconsin voters felt liberated to vote for Walker because they are confident that Obama will win their state in November. It is perverse, but it is like a license to be selfish, and people respond to that sort of moral calculus.
I go to sleep and wake up every day in the state governed by Jan Brewer. Scott Walker would probably be an improvement.
to my fellow BJ posters from Wisconsin, I feel your pain. I kind of feel like you guys are going through what King Theoden was stating in the Two Towers when looking at the seething mass of orcs arrayed against him, those forces have nothing hate, destruction, and mindless gratification at the expense of everything you hold in high regard amongst that mob arrayed against you. They don’t even see you as people let alone from another tribe or having another POV. I LIVE in Arizona and I know how frustrating it is to see so many people NOT GET IT.
Also probably something to do with an almost 30-year-senator (and a Kennedy, no less) as opposed to the non-incumbent presidential challenger. I’m sure someone could crunch the numbers and come up with an ‘Incumbents in office tend to stay in office” sort of rule about politics.
I live in the state that not only successfully recalled its governor, but installed an incompetent action movie star in his place. Twice. So I can’t really get on my high horse about the stupidity of Wisconsinites.
(Edited to fix the description of our former governor. “Actor” was being a little too generous, and I say this as someone who still thinks “The Terminator” is a great film.)
@Cacti: So you’d say “Fuck you, Wisconsin” out of jealousy?
@lacp: tbh… a good number of us AZ posters already went thru that FU Arizona stuff that was associated with SB1070, so I have a bit of empathy for our WI posters
@hells littlest angel:
I agree, and I’m originally from Mississippi (live in TN now, which seemed reasonably civilized when I first moved here, but the crazy’s like a freakin’ plague). Progressive-southerner butthurt’s one of the more annoying kinds, really; yes, there are decent progressive people in Red Amurka, but the point is, they/we lose. Always. It’s depressing, but the dominant culture is just ass-backwards & self-righteous. And the truth is that progressive ‘abandonment’ doesn’t actually mean much anyway– the feds are still going to try to force the red states to be at least marginally civilized, and in most cases the state-level depredations aren’t within outsiders’ ability to fix.
Like I said, the whole country was focused on this election and revved up. That makes it different from other elections of stupid politicians where most of the country either doesn’t hear about it till it’s over or only hears about it in passing.
And this isn’t a neener neener thing. It’s not that simple or silly. You don’t seem to realize: we aren’t thinking about our states (or I’m not thinking about mine), or making comparisons to Wisconsin. (Although, now that you mention it, I live in California where Dianne Feinstein is vying with Orly Taitz and a host of no-names for U.S. Senator for pete’s sake.) What I’m thinking about is what a disappointment this is, and I’m worried about what it means nationally as far as fighting off big. SuperPAC money goes. (So perhaps you could devote a little time to considering: Hey, maybe these other states aren’t simply looking down their noses at Wisconsin.)
And I won’t goddamn stop my reaction either. That just pisses me off. Only Wisconsites can react to this? Everyone else has to cluck sympathetically? Fuck that.
Yes, it’s disappointing. What I’m saying is that your sort of reaction does nothing to help. You want to worry about fighting off big moneyed interests? I do too! Let’s talk about that! It would be a hell of a lot more useful than saying writing off whole states as irredeemably horrible because the incumbent governor didn’t get recalled (and if you look at the numbers, didn’t really pick up many new voters either-he won by basically the same margin as last time). Seriously, keep it in perspective. There have only been 3 successfully recalled governors in all of history. The fact that Walker’s even facing recall shows that he’s in some trouble.
I’m personally not saying to need to ‘cluck sympathetically’ and I’m not saying that only Wisconsinites can be angry about this (I’m not from Wisconsin), but I’m asking that you at least stop yelling at people who don’t deserve it, knock it off with the scorched-earth politics, and focus on the real bad guys.
Just talking garbage. Wherever you live, you always think that the wingnutty politician in your backyard is the worst. In reality, there’s about a thimble’s worth of difference between the lot of them. Wisconsinites are fortunate in that the Democrats have a credible political presence in the state. The AZ Democratic Party is pitiful.
Agreed. Look, I understand the desire to lash out. But there’s ways to do that without maligning the significant numbers of people who worked – and continue to work – to make things better. The problem isn’t “Wisconsin”. The problem is all over this country.
@hells littlest angel:
I don’t feel like I’ve written Wisconsin off, and I don’t see them as the lost cause some of the other states you mention are. They’re still the home of the labor movement (at least historically), and they’re still (I think!) a blue state. And they got hit pretty hard with outside money.
OTOH, I see you explain “writing them off” as meaning simply that you’re no longer willing to send them money. And yeah, I’ll definitely think twice before I do that again. It’s not like I can afford to get involved in other states’ politics! It’s just that, well, this one went national, didn’t it?
hells littlest angel
@Lynn Dee: Exactly. I live in a reliably blue Congressional district, my Democratic senator will be easily re-elected, and I think Romney is no threat to Obama. I have a little bit of money — just a little — to use to support progressives elsewhere, so I have to spread it around judiciously. It’s like political triage. I just wheeled Wisconsin’s bed out into the hallway. Near that elevator. That goes down to the morgue.
Death Panel Truck
So, to sum up…
It’s Citizens United’s world; we just live in it.
Good to know.
I hear ya. But in all honesty, I don’t think anyone’s immediate reaction is going to help much. Fortunately, tomorrow’s another day.
But, if we’re going to learn from this, we can’t simply explain it away. No doubt there will be a lot of post-game analysis in the days and weeks to come. Time enough to figure it out (I hope).
Don’t look now, but the Wisconsin Dems might flip a state senate seat…
Honey, you and I live in a state where a goddamned porn star was vying to take Gray Davis’s seat after he was recalled. We live in the state where the people voted to write “marriage is only between a man and a woman — no gays allowed” into our state constitution — twice.
Get off your fucking high horse.
Yep. Dave Catanese from Politico reports that Wanggaard’s campaign manager has confirmed that he’s down 1,000 votes or so. That could change by morning, but it’s a good sign at least.
Another Halocene Human
@Linnaeus: Oh please oh please let this be true. Christmas in June!
I had high hopes for that one. Going to bed now, hoping to wake up to good news on that front.
I’m not on my fucking high horse. Did you think I was “bragging” when I mentioned Orly Taitz vying with Dianne Feinstein for Senator?! You obviously read almost nothing of what I wrote.
So fuck you and the horse (speaking of horses) you rode in on, Mnemosyne.
Honestly, I was more disappointed over the apparent failure of the state senate recalls than I was over Walker, so if this holds up (and the district is nowhere near Waukesha), I am greatly heartened. Have a Dem majority will go a long way towards neutering Walker’s worst impulses.
Ah, so you weren’t looking down on Wisconsin or scolding them for their bad votes when you said:
So, basically, you’re pissed off at Wisconsin’s voters for being less stupid than California’s Schwarzenegger voters?
ETA: Orly Taitz isn’t “vying” for anything — she got less than 20K votes to DiFi’s 1 million. I think Prop 8 is a much bigger example of utter electoral failure in a nationally-watched campaign than Taitz or Walker.
@Another Halocene Human: @Spaghetti Lee: @Mnemosyne:
Yeah, I figured that if the Dems didn’t win the gubernatorial recall, then a state senate seat or two would at least make Walker’s job that much harder. It’s better than nothing, that’s for sure.
Let me add that there’s still votes to be counted in Wanggaard’s district, many of them in precincts favorable to him. So, again, this could change. Just a word of caution.
You live in a black and white world, don’t you, Mnemosyne? So you’ll have a hard time with this.
But we all have our crosses to bear when it comes to the stupidity of our own politicians. But, unless we elect to leave the state, we’re stuck with them and we do what we can. Because we live in the state and it affects us directly.
Now, when it comes to sending money off to, or otherwise getting involved in the politics of, other states, there are a number of reasons an out of stater might do that. But one reason is that the contest has national implications — which obviously this one did. But now it’s done.
It may be that a number of Dems decided that the recall was somehow wrong however much they didn’t like what Walker was doing. And it may be that SuperPAC money had something to do with pushing that message. But, whatever happened, there’s no getting around the disappointment — and yeah, I wish I’d saved my money.
If you also contributed and have no regrets about that, then wonderful. Good for you. It’s not how I feel.
And just after I posted that comment, I read via Twitter than Lehman has given a victory speech. Looks like WI senate majority just flipped.
Taitz was vying this evening, dear heart. And, win or lose, she’s still an excellent example of the lunacy of some of our own.
@Linnaeus: So now when Walker gets indicted and is forced to resign Kleefleisch (sp?) won’t dare recall the Congress. It won’t change much but it also means nothing else bad happens.
Yeah, I know. Small comfort. Better than no comfort.
So tell me if I have this about right: ‘I understand telling the entire state Fuck You might not be exactly fair, but you have to understand we’re just all so worked up out here outside of Wisconsin – so worked up, in fact we out here to whom this didn’t just happen feel justified in telling the people to whom it did happen, “Fuck you” – that’s how worked up we are about your state. So please understand, we’re worked up, and this is just couple hours after the disaster, and there are going to be some crazy reactions. Please understand.
‘Oh, and also by the way: Fuck you a second time.’
That about right?
Oh it’s hard to pick favorites. Speaking of Prop 8, we did get a bit of good news today when the 9th Circuit declined to hear the appeal en banc. So there’s that.
You forgot: Fuck you a third time, Mike D.
And seriously: See about getting that spleen vented.
Not at all. I live in a world where even blue states like California have massive faults — like a majority of its voters deciding to write bigotry into the state constitution — so I really can’t get on my high horse and decide that another state’s voters are even worse when they make a stupid decision.
I don’t regret the money I sent to Wisconsin, but I do greatly regret the money I sent to No on 8. That money I should have flushed down the fucking toilet for all the good it did, and that was inside my own state.
No, it’s just awesome that it got as far as it did. On net, it might actually do damage, but it was never a strategic, considered decision. As you say, it was an authentic result of white-hot emotion at the grass-roots level (even below that if that’s possible) in the state, sixteen months ago. There’s no use thinking about whether it should have happened. It was simply written into reality starting a that time given the depth at which the progressive community in this state felt they had been crossed and hoodwinked.
This is not a tragedy, even though it feels like one tonight. It is an accomplishment, a culmination, a statement, and an expression of what Wisconsin is made of. These fighters will always be here, and remember this fight. The question is will others.
If you think I don’t see that California has massive faults as well, then you really aren’t reading a word I wrote. Which is fine. That’s probably another equally valid response to this evening’s outcome.
Or, maybe you’ve just gotten stuck on the idea of saying you can’t get on your high horse — thereby implying that I, by way of comparison, am very much on my high horse, never to come down apparently.
Either way, there’s probably not much point to continuing this discussion. Seeing as it isn’t one.
You’re telling people in Wisconsin to go fuck themselves over tonight’s results, but can’t seem to understand that a whole lot of people outside of California felt the same way after Prop 8 passed in 2008.
So, no, there probably isn’t any point in trying to continue since you don’t seem to understand the correlation between people outside of the state being angry with California after an election and people outside of the state being angry with Wisconsin after an election.
It’s awesome that it got as far as it did?! If Wanggaard wins, maybe so. Otherwise, I don’t see how anyone couldn’t be profoundly dismayed at the enormous amount of money and effort expended in staging half a dozen recalls… and coming up empty-handed.
And no, I’m not saying neener neener as Spaghetti Lee and Mnemosyne would have you think. But pretending nothing happened tonight or that it was all worth it is just stunning. At least devote a little time to considering the costs and benefits. You may come out at the same place — but without a little analysis, you’re just engaging in denial.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Mnemosyne: You know who ticked me off after that Prop 8 vote? The residents of Utah. Fuck em.
Now you’re just grasping for argument. I don’t think you even know what you’re saying. I would totally understand if folks were angry at California after, for example, the outcome of Prop 8. Hell, I was angry at California.
Anyway, good night.
What’s awesome is the enormous amount of energy that went into a collective effort to improve the situation in our state. We the people – it sprung from us and we did it. That’s not a claim about net-net of the results, which I’ve already said might net out to net harm. it’s a description of the effort itself – and it’s not calling it super-fantastic-positive. It’s calling it awesome, i.e. it was an awesome thing to behold, and awesome that it gave such a serious challenge to a governor who swept in on a pack of lies and national trends that he could claim no responsibility for, which obtain to this day.
I made clear i was aware the results may be regrettable. I also made clear this was not about assessing whether or not this should have happened. That inquiry is unrelated to reality. If you’d spent a moment in this state over past year, you’d know there was no if about this. It was simply going to happen. And you’d also know that this was an awesome effort, and the people who made it should be proud. I wasn’t talking about whether it was “worth it,” but if you ask the people on the ground tonight whether it was or not, they’d laugh in your face. Who do you think you are to tell them to think about whether it was worth it? Was it worth what? Your piddly contribution? If not winning means it wasn’t then your contribution was never worth anything to begin with. Come here and talk to people to find out what you need to consider in order to figure out whether it was worth it. Jesus Christ.
I wasn’t saying it was or wasn’t worth it. I was saying it was an awesome thing.
Whelp, time for the CIA to take out Walker the old fashioned way.
Any link to show this mythical 7-1 spending gap ?
What a joke.
FYI, Scott Walker did indeed get MORE votes this time than in 2010. According to the Huffington Post his vote total this time was 1,331,076 and from Wikipedia, his vote total in 2010 was 1,128,941. Nearly an 18% increase.
Ah, an awesome comment from a proud member of the emotion based community. It FEELs right, so dammit, it must be.
No. You accomplished NOTHING. Do you not get that ? Scott Walker won BY more WITH more votes. Period. The Walker opposition wasted every single penny and and every single ounce of energy they spend on this effort.
Scott Walker SAID he was going to do exactly what he did, that’s why he was elected in the first place.
And all the money and all the effort in opposing him resulted in what ? Nothing.
But you emotional liberals, you go ahead and pat yourselves on the back and feel good about yourselves as if a statewide election is some kind of self-esteem building exercise where everyone gets a ribbon or some shit.
You lost in 2010. You lost against Prosser, and you lost BIGGER in 2012.
Buy a clue.
It’s pretty clear you emotionally need all that to be true, but of course big chunks of it aren’t.
It’s not for you to say whether their choice for what to do with their energy or money was not worth it to them. It is indeed an achievement for an opposition to make a sitting opponent have to fight to retain his seat. The recall didn’t result in his ouster, but it did result in a massive amount of social capital around progressive politics in the state being built up, and that is a real thing, so no, it did not result in nothing. And it’s not true that Walker said he was going to do everything he did.
So basically, most of what you say there is false. You’re right about one thing, though – in order to make ourselves feel better about a situation, we liberals do do things to try to make the situation better, whether we succeed or fail at them, whereas you conservatives have a tendency to tell yourselves things that aren’t true and shout them at liberals to make yourselves feel okay about life.
I guess the message now is,
“Citizens United allowed billionaires to dump millions of dollars into an election and swing it, holding a criminal in office who is now frantically trying to wreck Wisconsin for his paymasters before he is inevitably ousted.”
“In other words, this is a 2012 Republican.”
@Mike D.: It’s not for you to say whether their choice for what to do with their energy or money was not worth it to them. It is indeed an achievement for an opposition to make a sitting opponent have to fight to retain his seat. The recall didn’t result in his ouster, but it did result in a massive amount of social capital around progressive politics in the state being built up, and that is a real thing, so no, it did not result in nothing.
This reflects a certain weakness I see in a lot of liberals, not just in politics, but in a lot of other things like career choices: what they fail to realize is simply that not everything that is difficult and not everything that you have to work hard at is worthwhile.
Then again, if people had a better way of understanding that, much of the non-profit industry would not exist.
Now, personally, I think that the Wisconsin recall of Walker was a great idea, but it’s clear that something went wrong somewhere along the way that caused the pro-recall forces to lose fairly badly.
@handy: I actually thought this was the first recall effort that a sitting politician survived. So it would appear that Walker bucked the trend and won where all others before have failed. Just goes to show how much support there is in Wisconsin for his policies of oh-so-slightly equalizing the unfair pay and benefits gap that public employees enjoy.
It’s already started……
Obama’s team, which has been on the ground organizing but hasn’t spent money on advertising for months, signaled this week that it believed the state had grown more competitive. In May, campaign manager Jim Messina had said Wisconsin was trending toward the president. By Monday, he was listing Wisconsin as “undecided.”
There’s no doubt now that Obama will defend his turf. Not that he has much of a choice.
Late for dinner
With turnout topping 80% in some of the pro-Barrett MKE precincts, I’m not sure “the people of Wisconsin” are the ones who should be getting the criticism here. $30 million can buy a metric shit-ton of obfuscation, and low-info voters (which is most of us) have, by the design of their betters, only limited time and energy to sort through the shitpile for the truth.
This may have been a Pyrrhic victory for Walker, though, because while the Koch brothers might have been willing to spend $30 million to keep him seated, I doubt they’ll spend anywhere near that much to keep him from getting convicted.
Sometimes I wonder if maybe the best course of action, after this type of thing, might be for the state Democrats to simply announce that since the people of Wisconsin have spoken and made it clear they have no problems with the policies of Scott Walker, that the Dems are going to give him everything he wants. If it comes to the lege, they’re going to pass it.
Of course, this type of speech might have helped before the election more, but I wondered the same thing in 2004: what if the Democrats had just said, “you know what, America? If 4 years of dysfunctional misrule hasn’t convinced you, and you think you want more, here’s the deal: we’re not going to stand in the way of you getting what you want. So go ahead and vote for Bush; just don’t expect us to save your Social Security or Medicare for you, because when he tries to gut them – and he will – we’re going to let him give you what you voted for. Got that? You want to play footsie with people who appeal to your worst instincts, then you get to find out what the consequences are. Think long and hard before casting that ballot – what do you really want? Someone who tells you that it’s good to be greedy and bloodthirsty and racist, or someone who’s going to help keep you from sleeping under a bridge in retirement? Those are your choices; choose wisely, because whichever way you choose, we’re going to help you get what you voted for.”
I know, I know, fantasy. But at some point you’ve got to wonder what the fuck it’s going to take, and sometimes I think a statement of complete capitulation might be the only thing that would wake up the mushy middle who go out and vote GOP with the idea that “well, yeah, he SAYS he’s going to execute illegal immigrants, but I know the Democrats will stop him from doing that, so it’s still ok for me to vote for this douchebag.” If some of those folks were told upfront – “hey, listen up – the crazy shit this guy’s spouting? We’re tired of dealing with this, and it appears that a lot of people like you don’t take it seriously and won’t take it seriously until they get a taste of it, so think carefully about who you vote for. Because this time, we’re not going to save you from your own worst instincts.”
@Spaghetti Lee: So it is insulting to point out that actions have consequences?
As for the whimping about recalls, recall from the recent in California that recalls over policy are only OK against Democratic office holders. As per fucking usual.
I’ve been hating on people as a species a lot more than usual lately, and WI has not moving my VU needle away from it’s positions, pinned on “Hate You All”
What I don’t understand is if WI got more than the signatures they needed for the recall, how come that didn’t translate into votes?
I still say that money is ruling in a way that it was never supposed to. But if that’s the case then hopefully those Dem millionaires will give more money to the Super PACS.
I know the GOP side has lots of millionaires and billionaires. Doesn’t our side have anything close to that equivalent? Anyone besides Soros?
And to clarify about centrists. Or moderates. I consider myself to be moderate about certain things in politics. Does that make me a centrist? I’m a pragmatist who believes in choosing your battles.
Of course, when the other side is a psychopathic three year old then pragmatism becomes simple survival.
And here is where I’m pragmatic:
I hate what Obama is doing with the drones though I’m for killing the terrorists if they are indeed terrorists.
I’m not thrilled by everything he does.
But as I said, I’m pragmatic and know that I hate the other side more and it’s not like that side would be any less hawkish. So I made a decision that Obama is better than the other side.
What makes me amused and sad at the same time are the new Paulites who flock to him because they mistake his dislike for overseas wars for pacifism but it’s more anti-money for people other than us. They also don’t look at his history.
I live in Maryland, a blue state. I moved here from NY in 1988, another blue state (at least downstate is). I know how easy it is to be fooled into thinking that every state has enough far left liberals to actually vote one into the Presidency, especially now.
But I know that’s not the case. Because of that, only moderate Dems win.
That’s why I don’t understand when people vote for a third party that has no chance to win. This isn’t the time to make a protest vote or stay home. When I hear someone say that I want to slap them because they may not get everything they want with Obama or whatever Dem manages to win but I can tell them with certainty that they’ll find almost nothing they like with the GOP, especially the newest incarnation.
I go into this with my eyes open. I have yet to have a Presidential election or probably any election where I’m voting FOR anyone. It’s always AGAINST the other side. But at least when I vote against the other side I know I’ll get something I want. And to me, that’s better than getting nothing I want.
The Original Raven
What’s troublesome here is just how bad it’s going to be Wisconsin, now that Scott Walker has a clear mandate. You ain’t seen nothing yet. And, since this garbage is working in Wisconsin, they’re going to try it again nationwide. Given that even a strong progressive state like Wisconsin would not hold, I think only a few states will be able to resist, if any at all.
I expect a trend towards an 1880s level of anti-union policy and violence in these states, and a trend towards 1880s levels of income inequality as well. One question we are going to be looking at: will the President be willing to call out the National Guard to break strikes?
Circle, circle, circle.
So you’re saying that, despite thinking that the recall was a good idea, you don’t like the weakness it reflects for the people who did the thing you think was a good idea to afterwards feel that, for themselves personally, despite having made mistakes that made the endeavor less successful than hoped, that their efforts were worth more than nothing to them (which is what I said- not that they felt it was all worthwhile), and to take note of what those efforts did create depite not achievingng their ultimate goal? You have a problem with that, and a problem if they feel it was worthwhile afterwards, even though you still think they should have undertaken what they undertook? What lesson are you seeking that they should take, then, if you don’t want the conclusion to be that they shouldn’t have undertaken what they did in the circumstances they did? Your issue is just with how they feel about it immediately afterwards – it needs to be negative enough to suit you for reasons unexplained? You realize that if you argue that people ought to feel that undertakings are not worthwhile if they don’t reach the highest goals they set for themselves, then you are arguing for people generally or at least at the margins to stay out of undertakings at a rate proportional to the risk they won’t be that successful. But you think this one should have been undertaken! You’re arguing against yourself, just because you don’t like that some people in Wisconsin feel good about what they did here.
Reassess, my friend.
Approximately 540,000 signatures were needed to trigger the recall. Approximately 930,000 signatures were gathered. Barrett got over 1.1 million votes. Walker got 1.3 million.