Philip Diel, a director of the U.S. Mint under Clinton and the guy who authored the platinum coin law in the first place, says that a trillion dollar coin would hardly be the most tortured statutary interpretation that someone gets away with this week. Regardless of whether SCOTUS will approve (and I would love to see Roberts try not to make waves with that case), I agree with DougJ that it makes a useful bargaining chip during the inevitable negotiations that Obama says we won’t have. I just hope they make the coin really f*cking big to discourage any jokers during the walk across the street to Treasury.
Meanwhile some writers at TPM noodle over whose face would go on a trillion dollar coin. They leave out George Dubya, who seems like the obvious choice to me.
The Other Chuck
Gotta be Reagan on that coin. No question.
And it should have “Vincam” stamped on the heads side, and “Perdis” on the other.
JGabriel
Tim F.:
I think someone has to be dead before they can appear on a coin. As an alternative, I suggest a double profile of Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand.
.
scav
Colbert should get his minions to do an election and vote him on it — or at least the SC Trillion coin. Collect all 50! And let both DC and PR in so we can get to 52 and really press the spending to the ceiling!
Machine-Gun Preacher (formerly Ben Franklin)
Nobody, I mean nobody wants to wade into gun politics.
Sorry. I had to say it.
Nemo_N
But, but… the political reality! Lowering to their level! Not mature!
Also, Ayn Rand’s face.
Sphys
Argh, isn’t there a law that no living person be depicted on US currency? There are plenty of other amusing choices anyway: Reagan, Ponzi, the Trinity test, Apollo 11, Malcolm X, a scale relief map of the continental US, Saul Alinsky…
c u n d gulag
No, it’s gotta be W!
Slap his petulant smirking puss on the front, and on the back, an image of the Twin Towers burning, and then the words: “Tax Cuts for the Rich,” “Afghanistan an Iraq Wars and Occupations, “Torture,” “Big Pharma Give-away,” and, “Deregulation of Wall Street – and Collapse.”
Sure, it’ll have to be a big coin – but, after all, W left us with a big debt! ! !
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I’m still against it, personally, but if they are going to do it, it should be about 8 feet in diameter. Forget putting Reagan’s face on it, put a life size portrait of him on it.
Schlemizel
I vote Saint Ronald – halo and all!
The inverse should be a map of all 50 states with net taker states indented in a ratio according to their net cost and net payers raised in a ratio according to their net payout.
MattF
Speaking of Big Money (joke!), Georgette Mosbacher is unhappy:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/08/mosbacher-i-m-furious-at-my-own-party.html
No, I have no sympathy for her, but it looks to me like another seam in the Republican coalition is ripping apart.
The Red Pen
After debating with Josh Holland (Alternet), I have finally joined the ranks of the “coiners.”
We’ve sunk that low. (Low as in doing this stunt, not low as in I’m finally on board, which is also low, according to some.)
Ronald Reagan would be my choice for person on the coin, but I’d settle for Andrew Breitbart.
Culture of Truth
Tunch
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@c u n d gulag: “Mission Accomplished”
burnspbesq
Jefferson Davis on one side and Fort Sumter on the other. Just because it will make Richard Shelby’s head explode.
nellcote
Raygun obviously with the Cheney quote “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.”
Culture of Truth
Bush father and son on one side, “Mission Accomplished” on the other.
Tim F.
@Culture of Truth: That would crash the platinum market.
Forum Transmitted Disease
MUST BE REAGAN. The wingnuts truly deserve nothing less.
scav
I think that just means we can’t put the logo of our sainted corporate persons on the coin until they’re bankrupt. Mere fleshers, if bankrupt of ideas, are fair game then I would imagine, especially on platinum instead of nickel, copper or alloys. Platinum, like gold™, is magic.
Omnes Omnibus
@JGabriel: He is dead to me.
MattF
On one side: “I Win”, on the other side: “You Lose.”
Suffern ACE
@MattF: Hmmm. I’d check first to see if one of her homes was damaged in Sandy.
Also, I vote for Phyllis Diller for the coin. I don’t know why it has to be someone political. Phyllis on one side, Andy Griffith on the other. Each year when we need to mint a new coin, we should just put the faces of the famous recently departed on them. Then it can’t be argued that the coins aren’t meant for “collectors.” Who but true collector of celebrity $trillion coins would want one with Phyllis Diller’s face on it?
Violet
@nellcote:
This.
Disco
The only thing standing in the way of the trillion-dollar coin are Obama’s cajones, or lack thereof.
Villago Delenda Est
Reagan would be perfect, as he’s the guy who, according to Dick “Dickhead” Cheney taught us that deficits don’t matter, and also, too, it would preempt any use of Reagan on any other coin, which his cultists have been mumbling about ever since the Reagasm.
Plus it would drive the wingtards bonkers. Or more bonkers than they already are.
BGinCHI
Pat Paulsen, motherfuckers.
I am not a kook
DEFICITVM NON MATTERVM
FACTVM STUPIDVM
ARBOR POLLVTIAM
Thomas
Dubya needs at least a $4 trillion coin –or much bigger if we don’t ignore the projected surplus he wiped out.
dr.hypercube
The trillion dollar coin must be called an Amero.
Napoleon
This is absolutely excellent about why it is legal and not ecomomically harmful to mint the coin(s):
http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/3630.html
scav
FIAT FIAT!
Culture of Truth
Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings
or John and Abigal Adams
Mike Goetz
Bah. Anybody who mentions platinum goddam coins as some sort of solution instantly sounds like an abject moron.
The reason we have the public on our side is that we don’t do horseshit like this. Just wait for Republicans to raise the debt ceiling, which they will. They tipped their hand last time when they did this and folded, getting nothing but a mess of pottage in return.
Face
Any trillion dollar coin would be followed by impeachment hearings.
Judas Escargot, Bringer of Loaves and Fish Sandwiches
@JGabriel:
Ayn Rand on one side, Jesus on the obverse.
Paul Ryan’s head will explode in solidarity.
Culture of Truth
Jesus on one side, Mohammed on the other
Violet
@MattF: From the link:
I’ll believe that when I see it. The money people may sit on the sidelines for a few months, but they’ll be cajoled back fairly quickly. They’ll be wined and dined and be told about the 47% (with a new and improved term) and the evils of Muslins and brown people during after-dinner speeches. Georgette Mosbacher will be back to donating money and getting others to do so pretty quickly.
Villago Delenda Est
@scav:
Little Italian car!
It’s fairly obvious that Ron Paul and knot of drooling cultists haven’t read Adam Smith, who spends about 200 pages discussing why all money is FIAT money.
The Dangerman
@The Other Chuck:
Not sure of the Latin there, but I’m rather partial to stamping “In Fuck You We Trust” (no Sacrilege intended)
Mike Goetz
@Disco:
I’m so sick of stupid.
johnny aquitard
Ronnie on one side with his “There you go again” look on his face, over the motto “Deficits Don’t Matter”, and Dubya on the reverse, in full smirk and codpiece regalia, with “Mission Accomplished”.
Also, who actually decides what person goes on a coin? I take it that the House isn’t be involved, else the goopers would just sit on it, obstruct, sabotage etc. Per usual.
BGinCHI
Why does it have to be a coin?
Can’t it be a statue of Baal?
? Martin
@JGabriel:
Yeah, that’s the rule in the US. Not called ‘dead presidents’ for nothing.
How about Reagan fucking Ayn Rand? If we’re going to go all in, go all in.
@dr.hypercube: I agree with this too. Also, pass a law saying that guns can only be bought using Ameros. Still legal to buy, just need to use Ameros. Should have a picture of the UN building on the reverse side.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Does the statute forbid printing a bill instead of a coin? Cuz Iād think a Publisherās Clearing House sized bill would make for all sorts of photo-op awesomeness. And Iād love to see a portrait of Obama flipping the bird to the Republican House membership, but suspect decorum makes this a non-starter.
Villago Delenda Est
@Face:
Bring.Them.On.
Culture of Truth
print “In Dog We Trust” just to see who notices
RSA
But George W. Bush is already on the $200 bill!
chopper
@Face:
if obama just ignores the debt ceiling law, arguing that enforcing both congressional appropriations and the debt ceiling together cannot be done, he’d likely face impeachment as well.
of course, he’d probably rather the GOP blow up over something straightforward and reasonable (and clearly defendable to the us electorate) such as that as opposed to a wacky gimmick.
Mike Goetz
@BGinCHI:
How about a cast replica of that picture of Mitt Romney and his droogies pulling bank notes out of their suits?
Culture of Truth
William Tecumseh Sherman
That should send a message
Napoleon
This is from the guy who ran the Mint under Clinton and it blows giant holes in a bunch of arguements that have been made in the past here and elsewhere regarding the coin(s)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/05/1176584/-Trillion-Dollar-Coin-Posts-on-Legality-and-Constitutionality
kooks
Seriously, whatever the legal technicalities of the coin are, it is just not politically practical and it legitimizes the GOP tactic of taking the debt ceiling hostage. Obama just needs to keep doing what he’s doing – point at Congress and say “pay the bills” – and he’s got a couple big opportunities coming up to make the point (inauguration and State of the Union).
If push really does come to shove, I’d much prefer the path of “Congress sent me two contradictory bills, and as the Executive, I’m going to enforce the most recent, which were the spending bills.” If Congress doesn’t want that spending, they can pass new legislation rescinding it.
The GOP is going to fold, the best option is for Obama to not even play their game.
Brendan in NC
@scav: Don’t you mean Chrysler! Chrysler! :-)
EDIT – Darn it! Villago beat me to it….
Sphys
@scav:
Of course! The Enron logo!
scav
@Culture of Truth: like, esp. as they’ll try to bring out more purple bandages (for a change. — how big a supply do,they have?)
Don’t even think it’s a good actual idea for the actual admin to attempt but love it as a bubbling pre-event possible cudgel to keep the issue on the boil (pressure and heat help reactions).
Schlemizel
I say lets call the thing a Ningy
The exchange rate of 8 Ningys to one Galactic PU is simple enough. However, since a Ningy is a triangular
rubber-coinplatinum coin,6800 miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one PU. Besides which, if you did ever own enough, you would have a great deal of trouble exchanging them, as most banks refuse to deal in fiddling small change.”Sphys
@scav:
Of course! I can’t seem to publish the name of the company I’m thinking of, but it starts with “En” and ends with “ron.”
NCSteve
I repeat my suggestion at TPM:
No head on the obverse, just a hand flipping the bird along with the usual “In God We Trust” and “Liberty” (just to rile up the talibangelicals and the Paul followers at the same time) and “E PLURIBUS UNUM,” the year and the eagle from the Presidential Seal with the words:
ONE
TRILLION
FUCKIN’
DOLLARS,
BYATCHES
superimposed over the shield on the Eagle’s breast.
Napoleon
Kevin Drum has absolutely gone over the edge in the coin debate. What a fucking idiot. It half way makes me want to cancel my MJ subscription.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/platinum-coins-and-fever-swamp
Machine-Gun Preacher (formerly Ben Franklin)
@Culture of Truth:
Nah. Gen Curtis LeMay……more bipartisan.
c u n d gulag
Ok, I’ve changed my mind – make it Reagan.
Only make it a $10 Trillion Dollar coin.
Conservatives always wanted Reagan’s winning smile and vacuous look in his eyes, on some money.
So, make it the coin to pay off last years spending, and to start to pay-down the massive debt he started to accumulate over 30 years ago, and W gave a steroid shot to.
Btw – anyone see another “Ocean’s #XX” in the future, where the usual suspect actors get together for the greatest heist film of all time?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@kooks: Exactly. Which sounds better:
“Because Congress has said I have to spend this money, I am going to have to ignore the debt ceiling to get your SS checks out.”
or
“Because Congress has said I have to spend this money, I am going to have the Treasury mint a $1T coin to get around the debt ceiling to get your SS checks out.”
Tonal Crow
@Face:
1. The Republicans are so sore that Obama won that they’re going to find some excuse to impeach no matter what.
2. Good! An impeachment circus will help convince even more of the public that Republicans are batshit insane.
Culture of Truth
I didn’t a chance to say this last night, but some one said Obama has to do this to let the GOP know they can’t win. But this misuderstands the dynamic, I think, and why I am opposed to the coin. If Obama issues the coin, the GOP wins. They don’t really want to wreck the nation’s credit, and don’t expect to slash Social Security this month. They’re extremist sociopaths who listen to Rush Limbaugh and are trying to embarrass Obama for a few minutes, or better yet, provoke him into doing something unpopular or stupid.
Tonal Crow
I haven’t yet heard any legally-solid objection to the Fed agreeing to a Treasury request to void the T-bonds that the Fed holds. Doing so would destroy the obligation that the voided bonds represent, thus creating room under the debt ceiling to issue more bonds. And it’s not selective default because the issuer (Treasury) and holder (Fed) are just different agents of the same sovereign.
That said, I haven’t explored the relevant law to see whether it permits this technique. Has anyone else who specializes in this area?
MattF
@Tonal Crow: Speaking of batshit insane, polling shows that Congress is less popular than cockroaches and colonoscopy:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_Natl_010813_.pdf
Roger Moore
@JGabriel:
Does undead count? In that case, I’d like to propose Dick Cheney.
johnny aquitard
Ronnie on the obverse, Arthur Laffer on the reverse.
Although it’s fun to think about which winger belongs on the coin, I think the whole thing is silly, and worse, it will appear gimmicky and un-serious and more than a bit of a trick to Joe Q. Public.
It really isn’t advantageous for Obama to appear to have pulled a fast one on the american public. Shifty negro and all that. Just what Fox et al would love. What his presidency would lose is worth far more than a trillion. There must be other ways to do this.
Roger Moore
@Face:
Bring it on. Impeachment hurt the Republicans last time, and it will do the same this time. Besides, there isn’t a prayer of the trial getting anywhere, since it would require a 2/3 majority in the Senate to convict.
Roger Moore
@Culture of Truth:
Nah, a depiction of Mohammed would piss off both Christians and Muslims. Better to just put “AllÄhu Akbar”* on it instead of “In God We Trust”.
*And FYWP for not letting me get that on there in Arabic without messing things up because of bidi)
Napoleon
Maybe they should put the Flying Spaghetti Monster (holy be his name) on it.
danimal
@? Martin: I was thinking that the new Ameros should have Reagan on the face and the Mexican eagle on the back, but after careful consideration, I agree that the U.N. building on the back is just about perfect.
Reagan proved that “deficits don’t matter” so his face is perfect. Also, Grover N’s life work (before destroying U.S. tax policy for a decade) was to immortalize Ronny, so they really can’t complain, right?
Forum Transmitted Disease
So far their track record is pretty shitty in that regard.
Roger Moore
@Tonal Crow:
I think I like that approach even less than the coin. The problem is that eventually the Fed will want to tighten the money supply again, which will require selling its bond holdings to pull money out of the system. If you trade some bonds for a trillion dollar coin, it’s possible to trade back at some point in the future, which is not true if you actually cancel the debt.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
PPP needs to change its name to Public Policy Trolling with that one:
Suffern ACE
@Roger Moore: How the hell does Congress beat gonorrhea but loose to cockroaches? The folks at the gonorrhea industry lobby are really failing at their jobs.
Roger Moore
@Suffern ACE:
You could ask the same question about beating the Kardashians and Lindsay Lohan but losing to Nickelback and Genghis Kahn.
johnny aquitard
@Roger Moore:
It hurt everyone, country included. The goopers flung poo everywhere, and everyone got splattered. It damaged Clinton’s presidency, tainted the Dem party, damaged Gore’s following bid for the presidency, and not the least, distracted and hamstrung the White House on other things like what some guy named bin Laden was up to and how to deal with this growing terrorist organization called Al Qaeda.
I think the damage it did to the office of the president, along with the disgust everyone felt over whole thing also helped shape the national psyche for being amenable to looking at a president as a guy you’d have a beer with.
So, no, I disagree. Be careful of what you wish for.
handsmile
Herman Cain was legally eligible to become President of the United States.
It was never going to happen in this country at this time.
The Treasury is legally authorized to issue a platinum coin with the denomination of $1 trillion.
It will never happen in this country at this time.
Coins of platinum, much like crosses of gold, do not make for winning politics in America.
Though I must say that like the speculation on Cain, this speculation on specie does make for entertaining (and earnest) reading.
ETA: But to get into the spirit of things, what about Alfred E. Newman to grace the coin? He’s got an appropriate motto as well and sorta looks like GWB.
catclub
@Schlemizel: Also, Pobble Beads.
catclub
@handsmile: “much like crosses of gold”
Considering that William Jennings Bryan LOST, and that he was opposing crucifying America on a cross of gold,
Crosses of Gold won.
Cacti
@The Other Chuck:
Absolutely.
They can call a coin of that denomination a “gipper”.
But for the inscription, I suggest deficits non materiae, in honor of Dick Cheney.
catclub
If only Clint Eastwood were dead.
Make My Day.
Cermet
Sorry, but issuing a trillion dollar coin will NEVER happen – it is one very different thing to sell bonds in exchange for real money to cover the debt and then a VERY different thing to just create a trillion dollar coin(s) out of thin air. In the former case, the world will keep their faith in our economy and continue to buy our bonds; but in the later case, the world would realize that our money is really worthless and more damage than even defaulting on the debt would occur. President Obama is not stupid. More on.
Yutsano
@catclub: Flavina Pobble Beads are only exchangeable for other Flavian Pobble Beads. Rather unfortunate.
FormerSwingVoter
I’d love to see Lincoln on the coin, even though he’s well-represented elsewhere. But that’s only because I want take every member of the Neo-Confederate party and rub their faces in what they truly are.
Fair Economist
No coin, no matter how ridiculous, can eliminate “faith” in the US currency. What underlies the value of any fiat currency is that you have to have it to pay taxes. That’s not going anywhere.
That said, the US dollar is overvalued, as demonstrated by our chronic trade deficit, and knocking it down by 10-20% would do the economy a lot of good.
liberal
@johnny aquitard:
Nah. Milton Friedman. His free-market dogmatism has done a lot more damage than Laffer’s own high-proof stupidity.
Maude
@Fair Economist:
Gas prices would go down, indirectly as a result.
handsmile
@catclub:
Yes, I do realize that Bryan lost. My point was his invocation of that “cross” (advocating a new bimetal monetary standard was one of the principal elements of Bryan’s campaign) contributed in no small way to that defeat. Despite having won re-election, should Obama adopt the platinum coin proposal I fear he would be mocked historically no less than Bryan.
I gladly concede the comparison is not fully apt. (and apologies if my snark detector is malfunctioning)
J R in WV
If they mint platinum coins, I want one for my ever-more valuable state quarter collection – my IRA needs all the help it can get so I can afford to retire!
/snark
Fred
Mint a coin with Reagan’s smilin’ puss in the amount of debt accrued under his tenure, aprox $1.9 trillion. And make it a BIGGUN!
I like the “Reagan taught us that deficits don’t matter.” quote idea. Just drive that sucker home for real.
J. Michael Neal
@Maude: No, they’d go up. A weaker dollar makes all imports more expensive and we’re a net importer of oil. As dependent on foreign oil as we are, a decline in the value of the dollar wouldn’t have as much effect on the trade deficit as a first order analysis would indicate.
Tonal Crow
@Roger Moore:
In that case, the Fed could raise the rate it pays banks on the reserves they deposit there, which would encourage them to do so, thus reducing the money supply. I like my approach more than the trillion-dollar coin because it’s not as easily caricatured as a gimmick. That said, Obama is going to need to use all his powers to prevent Republicans from defaulting on the debt.
I suspect the following talk may be needed:
“Good afternoon, Mr. Boehner, Mr. McConnell.
“I’ll get right to the point. As President, I am sworn to protect the United States of America from all enemies, foreign (pause), and domestic. I will not hesitate to use the full array of my powers when it becomes necessary to do so, including those involving enemy combatants.
“Thank you for visiting me. Agent Jones here will escort you out.”
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@JGabriel:
“They leave out George Dubya, who seems like the obvious choice to me.”
I think someone has to be dead before they can appear on a coin
Okay – a picture of George Dubya’s brain, and Dick Chaney’s morality on the reverse.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@Cermet:
Sorry, but issuing a trillion dollar coin will NEVER happen ā it is one very different thing to sell bonds in exchange for real money to cover the debt and then a VERY different thing to just create a trillion dollar coin(s) out of thin air.
Dude, ALL MONEY is created out of thin air. We don’t live in a gold coin world anymore.
With or without the trillion-dollar coin, the US currency is backed by exactly the same thing it has always been backed by – the goods and services produced in the American economy. Money is just a tool for distributing and lubricating that production.
pattonbt
Orly Taitz one side, Joe Arpaio the other.
Or Dave Chappele (Black Bush) one side and “Mars Bitches” on the other.