From commentor Bob H:
Attached are some pictures from my NJ backyard… Lots of hostas, phlox, goldflame spirea…
I was wondering if you or the commentators can identify a new tree that has arisen where a massive, lightning-killed oak used to be. It is probably obvious, but I just can’t find the name anywhere:
***********
The last of my mail-order tomatoes were delivered Friday, just in time for our first official heat wave of the summer. Everything seems to have survived transplanting so far, and if we get the promised break in the heat next week, I might even have the energy to re-arrange all the new 10- and 20-gallon rootpouches so the ‘tomato garden’ (driveway extension) looks more deliberate and less like a neighborhood eyesore…
What’s going on in your gardens this week?
Origuy
I’m thinking that’s a black locust.
Fred
I was just going to sugest, ‘some wariety of locust’ and Origuy did me one better.
Van
Could be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailanthus_altissima. Known as ‘tree of heaven’ or ghetto palm or stink tree. It’s kind of a weed tree. They are very pretty, but tend to lose lots of branches in strong winds.
Bob h
Yes, I think that’s right, a thornless variety. In the upper right hand of the backyard photo is a new plant, a variegated willow, that is so beautiful and fast-growing. We are using it to try to hide our neighbor’s chain-link fence and pool water slide.
HeartlandLiberal
I agree with the first comment, I suspect it is some sort of locust tree.
Here in south central Indiana, the rains keep coming, wave after wave every few days. The past couple days very heavy.
Over past two weeks, I have harvested 11 pounds of strawberries from the 8 x 12 patch I have established. We have not been able to keep up with eating them, or giving some to neighbor. Yesterday I washed, trimmed, and froze about four pounds of berries.
But when doing latest pick two days ago, I had to through away at least two pounds, because the ground and plants are so wet and saturated that berries are rotting on the vine as soon or before they get ripe, especially if in contact with ground.
The bed is slightly raised, to try and avoid this, but too much rain is too much rain. Hate to hear myself saying that, knowing that summer’s drought is probably on the way.
At any rate, in a day or two, after this session of rain is over, I plan to rework the bed. I am going to have to thin out and remove about 1/3 of the 80 or so plants, I think I have let them get a little lush and overgrown. Perhaps that will help.
cmm
I was thrilled that the strawberry plnts we just planted this year were coming along so well, till the dang squirrels started eating the tiny, unripe berries. The three blueberry bushes we planted last year, which collectively gave us about enough berries for one bowl of cereal, are loaded this year but I m afraid that is just more for the squirrels. We have wee zucchini and tomatoes appearing as well. None of lettuces look like they are going to make it, th
NotMax
@Bob h
Willow roots will travel amazing distances to seek moisture (even into cracking open and invading pipes).
If the neighbor has a pool at all close, might not be the best place for a willow.
Linda Featheringill
Happy Sunday morning to all.
We also have had a heat wave. Today is supposed to be the last of that group.
The younger plants in the garden had a rough time dealing with the heat. Daughter watered every day in the early afternoon. We must be doing something right because the new garden is greener than anything around it this morning.
Apparently, that garden in that spot, in that micro-environment, needs help in coping with temperatures of more than 90 degrees.
I’ve worked with container gardens for the last few years and am used to just moving the babies to at least partial shade if they got too hot. I’m not used to “stationary” gardening.
And yep, I agree. It’s some kind of locust tree.
raven
Since our meeting with the city went so well the impact of running a new sewer line is setting in. We know that it will have to relocate plants, possibly lose trees, but we had not thought about Raven’s monument. We buried him there about six years ago and it will be a bummer if we have to dig the little fella up.
donnah
My guess would be stink tree, too. They grow like mad and they grow anywhere. They don’t just lose leaves, they lose the entire frond. And if you break them off, they do stink.
We had a lawn service come and cut down about a dozen of these boogers last fall. If that’s actually what you have, make sure a lot more don’t spring up around it.
If it’s a locus, no problem!
SG
Looks like an ailanthus to me, too. Ugh, they’re godawful weed trees. You’ll see them choking out native trees along highways, abandoned lots, railroad right-of-ways. They’re ugly in growth habit as well, sprawling all over the place.
Louisiana Liberal
I’m thinking it’s either a Tree of Heaven or a locust, hard to say with that photo.
My garden is cruising along…have about 500 sq ft of raised beds with two types of corn, pattypan squash, butternut squash, leeks, 10 kinds of peppers, cantaloupe, eggplant, 5 kinds of beans, two varieties of cucumbers, asparagus, strawberries, and about 15 tomato plants, all heirlooms. Just harvested about 15lbs of onions left over from last winter’s garden.
Happy gardening!!
currants
Hmm. I thought maybe it was a mimosa tree –my aunt in New Jersey had them all around. I think the Latin name is Albizia julibrissin.
Gindy5
If you touch the leaves and they close, mimosa. If it has thorns and gorgeous white flowers, honey locust. The seed pods of the honey locust will be dark brown and curly. If it has no thorns it is a city variety planted in towns because these trees are hardy and can withstand pollution and lack of water.
Black locusts have larger, rounder leaves, but the flowers smell nice. They are a “trash tree” so to speak and help add nitrogen to the soil. They make excellent fence posts after you cut them (at about 7 years).
It’s not ailanthus as its leaves are too small and pointed.
barbequebob
Hard to be certain from the photo, but my first impression was honey locust. They apparently come in both thorny and thorn-less varieties.
All of the species mentioned above have what are known as compound leaves, which consists of a central stalk called a rachis or petiole and numerous “leaflets”
OzarkHillbilly
@HeartlandLiberal:
We should be OK this year. Link
satby
SW MI has had rain eveey single day for over a week. Showers, not all day, but it never dries out. The veggie garden is doing ok, but I’m starting to worry the potatoes will rot in the ground before they have a chance to sprout.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gindy5: I was going to weigh in but I’m afraid that after Gindy5’s response I would only prove to be the ignoramus I am.
Punchy
Those fences look higher than 5 feet. I’ll be contacting your HOA.
OzarkHillbilly
As to the garden, everything is in and growing (except carrots and spinach which I will replant if it ever dries out) and all looks good as long as the tornadoes and hail keep missing this little patch of ridge top heaven.
MattF
FYI, there’s an iPhone app that ID’s trees from the shapes of their leaves:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/leafsnap/id430649829?mt=8
Worked for me– ID’d the trees planted on my street as dogwoods.
liberal
Well, that’s helpful, but shit…now I know this thing growing in the corner of my property is a stink tree.
Anyone know how to get rid of it? I was just going to continue cutting the sprouts when they come up, but I’m not sure that’s enough.
JPL
@liberal: I did a lot of research to remove bamboo from my yard. Since there was no way to get a back hole loader, into my back yard, I used chemicals. Good luck!
OzarkHillbilly
A small public service comment: Do not trust a doctor just because he is a doctor.
Had a cyst get infected (3rd one this year!!!) and my regular nurse practitioner was on vacation (alot of nerve she has!!!) so I got sent to an affiliated doc I had never seen before. Spent a fair amount of time with his nurse going over history (a lot of), allergies, meds (blood pressure, antacids, WARFARIN (rat poison)) etc etc. Finally the Doc comes in and takes a look at the volcano on my shoulder and says “Yeah, lets drain it.” and walks back out. The nurse begins the preps, getting out all the necessary tools of destruction. I noticed a couple of scalpels but didn’t think much of it, just going to drain it, right?
So the Doc comes back in, and starts talking about how deep the cyst is, and what a pain it is going to be getting to it, and how the local he is going to give me won’t do much good…..
Finally, I says, “Ya’ll know I am on blood thinners, dontcha?”
They gave each other the ‘Ohhhhh Shit!’ look that said, “We almost REALLY fwcked up!’ then proceeded to prescribe amoxicillin, and Lovenox, make an appt with a surgeon (same guy who cut one out of my face in Dec.), no charge me, and gave me the “GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN” bums rush out of the office. In other words, they did what they should have done from the beginning.
Now, I find it highly unlikely that I would have bled to death (the hospital is right next door) but I probably would have spent a couple of days in the hospital for multiple transfusions and complications.
This is not the first time I have caught Docs making mistakes and it certainly won’t be the last. Inevitably some doc will prescribe an anti-inflammatory for me 5 mins after I tell him I am allergic to aspirin, again.
So remember, doctors are human, and as such they are susceptible to that all too human failing called “fwcking up.”
OzarkHillbilly
@liberal: Nuclear weapons might do the trick.
Punchy
@MattF: I hear dogwoods are great, loyal trees, but have a lot of bark…
Maude
@OzarkHillbilly:
Good think you spoke up. I’ve had bad doctors and know that you have to pay attention. Sorry about the cysts.
One wave petunia hanging basket. During the heat, I’ve watered it 3 times a day.
We are supposed to get storms this afternoon. I’ll bring the petunia inside. It’s on a second story and would get blown to bits.
DecidedFenceSitter
So it is way to late for this year, let alone my lack of time – but anyone have suggestions/websites for gardening for people who have issues gardening? My few attempts several years ago of growing tomatoes in pots went abysmally, but I like the idea of fresh grown strawberries, tomatoes and what have you.
Violet
@cmm: Often times the squirrels go for the fruit because they’re looking for water. Same with birds when they go after fruit, tomatoes, etc. Not always the case, but it might help.Do you have water sources for the birds (and squirrels)?
Maude
@DecidedFenceSitter:
You can get a Patio Tomato in a pot at a good garden center. They do well and the tomatoes taste good.
For strawberries, If you have a big container, like a half whiskey barrel, you can plant a few strawberry plants.
Poopyman
Well, I might have chimed in earlier, but I was out watering the garden to ensure that today’s chance of rain becomes 100%.
Agree that it’s a locust. I would have said Black, but not if it’s thornless.
Now I need to finish building the new compost bin before it gets too hot. It’s already climbing past 80.
And what’s the best bean trellis? I was thinking of using netting vs twine.
Poopyman
@DecidedFenceSitter: Google “strawberry tower”.
Violet
@Poopyman:
I like this stuff. You do have to attach it to poles, but it’s sturdy. Twine hasn’t worked well for me. The netting didn’t work at all. Depends how you’re setting up your trellis–a straight trellis or a tripod like style?
rikyrah
have no idea. I just enjoy the Sunday garden pics
Schlemizel
We finally got a decent day yesterday, rain stopped over night finally and the sun was out. Weeding was easy given a week of non stop rain. Got the beds weeded and annuals planted. THe wind dried the grass out enough that I could force the mower through it, it was almost time for a hay mow!
Then early evening a front came through, more rain & it is colder than a well diggers ankle this AM. Heard there might have been frost up North.
At the local garden center yesterday the guy said he has records going back 39 years and has never had a spring as bad as this one, too cold, too wet.
Poopyman
@Violet: Yeah, that was also an option,but bigger than 2X4 mesh so I can reach through from the back (north). Costs more, but definitely multi-year, so maybe I’ll give it a go. The little buggers are about 8″ tall and starting to reach their little baby tendrils. Gotta do something soon. Thanks!
liberal
@OzarkHillbilly:
Sure. The problem is that there are known ways to reduce error rates, but doctors refuse to do them.
While I can sympathize with docs not wanting to use them because I don’t think the input of data is very efficient, medical records would have dealt with this easily. A good system would have a list of red flags for every patient, and they would have been alerted immediately.
Same thing with drug allergies. Had to remind the pediatrician that one of my twins was nominally allergic to amoxicilin (nominally, because most of the cases are not true allergies and won’t last a lifetime).
liberal
@JPL:
Yeah, I’m just not sure what chemicals to use. For the biocide my wife routinely expects me to commit on our patio, I use Roundup, but I thought for woody things it’s not very good.
liberal
Also…anyone know how to deal with carpenter bees?
OzarkHillbilly
@DecidedFenceSitter: Organic Gardening
U of Illinois
U of Missouri
Those are my go to sites.
Poopyman
@liberal: I’m thinking tactical nukes. Hope somebody has a better idea.
Actually, the same could be said of the tree question. I’ve had OK results with Roundup applied to new shoots after cutting the original trunk down. Multiple applications almost always required.
OzarkHillbilly
@liberal:
Uhh…. give them a hammer and some nails and put ’em to work?
Scout211
BobH,
That is a beautiful backyard. Very tranquil.
This year I made a 4 ft by 8 ft cedar raised bed from a kit and stacked it 3 high so it is 24 in high. I planted my 5 blueberry plants that I had in large pots in the high raised bed and added compost, peat, sand and oak leaves. Yesterday I harvested my 6th quart so far (4 now in the freezer) And there are still lots of berries to be picked.
The other happy crop this year so far is the rhubarb. The spring was fairly cool so the rhubarb thrived. The 100 degree temps will give them a sad now, though.
chopper
@liberal:
leave em alone?
Omnes Omnibus
@liberal: Unionize them.
Poopyman
@Omnes Omnibus: And then hope they strike.
Poopyman
@Scout211:
Yeah, but does John Ashcroft know about that nekkid statue?
raven
@liberal: The ones that are hovering are the males protecting the boring females. I use a tennis racket on the males.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: I am sure the males find the females quite interesting. Stop being so judgmental.
Poopyman
@raven: Mine are at the second story eaves. Got a Plan B?
lurker dean
@DecidedFenceSitter: for tomatoes, an earthbox is great. if you can keep water in the reservoir (you cant overwater it because of how it works) you can grow tomatoes in an earthbox. never tried strawberries in them, though.
max
@liberal: Well, that’s helpful, but shit…now I know this thing growing in the corner of my property is a stink tree.
I second the ID – it looks just like the thorny version I keep having to kill off.
Anyone know how to get rid of it? I was just going to continue cutting the sprouts when they come up, but I’m not sure that’s enough.
Chemicals will kill everything else too. That said, a pickax works for me (at killing off the roots of things that want to keep coming back). (My problem with these in two spots is that I can’t get at the roots – one is on the other side of the fence, and another is growing up through a log pile.)
max
[‘Pick ’em off early before they get big.’]
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@liberal: I stopped a couple of ailanthus from spreading by sawing them off close to the ground and painting the cut with Roundup. Keep an eye on them, repeat as necessary.
As far as what the OP has growing, regardless of leaf shape or whatever, my vote is for one of these. They’re opportunistic and grow anywhere there’s any disturbance.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@DecidedFenceSitter: Square Foot Gardening. You can start small (4′ by 4′). There’s lots of good advice about getting two crops out of one piece of ground. And you’re not too late for fall planting — broccoli, squash, etc. Just get started and you’ll have a couple of beds for your tomatoes next year.
PS, I like the original edition, not the revised one where he recommends raised beds and replacing all the soil with a planting mix of vermiculite and peat moss.
Joy
Since I have a new puppy, regular gardening is not in the picture so I am trying straw bale gardening (http://strawbalegardens.com if you are curious) and so far so good. Just trying out tomatoes, peppers, green beans and broccoli this year but everything seems to be doing well. We’ve had a ton of rain this spring in central Illinois and the bales naturally drain so I don’t have to worry about overwatering. In the fall, I will throw the bales in the compost heap.
MomSense
My garden is about to burst. Everything is just full of buds and the lupines are just coming in now. I was worried that the peonies I transplanted in the fall wouldn’t survive the winter but they are going to be fantastic this year.
The grass is another story. We had to reseed two large sections and so far one is doing well but the other is going to be a problem.
Here is a link to a photo I took this morning of my lupines.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/momsense_me/8924621832/
JR in WV
Locust trees have rounded oval leaves, and Tree of Heaven Allanthus have sharply pointed leaves.
Tree of Heaven is TOXIC or highly allergenic, a Forestry employee ifor as known to have died after using a chainsaw to remove large ones all day, covered with sawdust. It is when small quite similar to sumac, which many people use the fruits of for a suntea. If you do this with an Allanthus you could hurt someone, although I suspect it would smell-taste too bad for anynone not violently allergic to it to be hurt badly.
Here in WV the AG deparftment will pay farmers to eradicate them. Girdling the trunk down low and then spraying the cuts with lots of weed killer will help do them in. Wife digs them up, their roots run a long way. We still use poison on them when they come back up…
pat
@Poopyman:
Professional pest remover.
liberal
@chopper:
Actually, I’m fine with that, as long as they’re not really damaging stuff.
ISTR that some web page claimed they don’t really damage things (unlike termites or carpenter ants), but they’re generating a lot of sawdust right now.
liberal
@JR in WV:
Yeah, that’s what I thought, “maybe just some kind of sumac”.
Christ, those things (stink tree) really stink when you break a leaf or branch.
Thanks to all who gave me advice upthread.
Bob h
@Gindy5: @Gindy5: I have planted Mimosa and Tree of Heaven separately, and noticed the similarities to this tree, but don’t think it is either. I just noticed trying to strip a vine off the trunk that there are indeed big, nasty thorns on the trunk. So I guess Locust if is. I have seen fully grown examples in the park, and find them pretty attractive full grown. Thanks.
Diana
@NotMax: depends, of course, on how much you like that neighbor. If they complain, you could point out that they installed an exceedingly ugly fence.
wenchacha
I saw a gardening tip about dealing with a remaining stump. Drill holes into the stump, and fill holes with composted material. I don’t know if it would just encourage more growth, but the idea is to start breaking it down. Slowly.
Violet
@wenchacha: I had a small tree removed and there was a stump left. Didn’t bother me (I get to use it as a “stepping stone” to reach the tap for the hose), but the organic gardening company owners whose workers removed it for me told me that I could put buttermilk on it and it will help it disintegrate faster. Haven’t tried it.
Bubblegum Tate
OK, somebody please tell me how to keep thyme from getting all woody-stemmed. It seems like the transformation takes no time at all. Gah!
trollhattan
Chinese pistache? They volunteer like crazy.
johnny's mom
I think black walnut. Tree of heaven has a little notch (for lack of a better word) at the base of the leaf. Can you show us one leaflet? Black walnut will grow little green tennis balls late in summer (future walnuts). Black locust would have had beautiful panicles (grape-like clusters) of white flowers within the last month.
johnny's mom
@Bubblegum Tate: I don’t think they enjoy the heat so much. If you can do anything about that, let me know.
Mnemosyne
Any container gardeners? I may be just about ready to start filling up my two patio pots here in Southern California (zone 20 — thanks, microclimates!) I’m thinking of putting hummingbird-attractive plants in one (maybe a fuschia on one side and salvia on the other) and kitchen herbs in the other one. Because of the way our balcony is, probably only one side of each pot will get any sun.
Bill D.
Definitely *not* tree of heaven, which has a very different look overall including a much more upright branching pattern and curving tips on the leaflets. The general appearance of Bob H.’s tree resembles black locust but the leaflets have the wrong shape, being much too elongated and pointy. I don’t know what it is, but when the flowers open soon send in a close-up and that should help a lot.
Here in California, we have a lot of tree of heaven as well as some black locust growing like weeds, certainly along the river where I’m working on a flood control project. Neither is native to California; tree of heaven came here with the Chinese back during the Gold Rush.
I don’t recommend either for your garden due to their invasive nature. My wife’s grandparents fought tree-of-heaven for decades on their country place after having planted it in ignorance long ago.
Laguna_Bob
Here’s two cents from a longtime landscape architect:
My first choice (based on the photo only) would be Honey Locust (Gleditsia tricanthos), then Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia). Black Locusts are more likely to be “volunteers” than Honey Locusts, and pieces of Black Locust used as fence posts (they resist rot) have been known to sprout into trees. If it is a Honey Locust, it’s probably not the thornless variety, which is a clone and not possible for a volunteer. Tree of Heaven (Ailanthus altissima) is, indeed, a problem tree because of its invasiveness and other points raised by others, but the leaf patterns from the photo don’t resemble this tree at all.
Honey locust is my favorite of these because of its open structure and texture, but the spring flowers of the Black Locust resemble Wisteria and are quite fragrant, which is also attractive. The Honey Locust would be a worthwhile replacement for an oak and is commonly used as a street tree in tough urban conditions. The Black Locust, not so much, though a friend who built a 28-foot wooden sailboat used Black Locust for the “ribs” of the frame; it has a very tough, strong, durable wood. Still, I’d think carefully about letting a volunteer Black Locust mature if was not exactly what I wanted.
Not especially relevant, but Donald Culross Peattie has a great book called The Natural History of Trees that has great stories about all these trees, their uses and lore, though I wouldn’t use it for ID. It’s written in an old-fashiioned style that is fun to read.
opiejeanne
Just outside Seattle so we are way behind California’s growing season. Our strawberries have just begun to bloom.
We’ve spent an awful lot of time weeding areas we weeded six weeks ago because it rains so much and we are loathe to use chemical controls, but now we’ve got a handle on most of it and we are setting out lupines and delphiniums and astrantia and coreposis, etc. The astrantia because we have a local phenomenon known as Ciscoe who now has a radio show on CBS. Ciscoe Morris.
We assembled a greenhouse from a kit a couple of weeks ago and have three big tomato plants and two peppers growing inside it in large pots. We built a potting bench for it last weekend and I have been planting seeds in saved pots and flats, the basil and cosmos are up today. Today I started corn seeds, pumpkins, poppies, more cosmos, artichokes, cukes, zucchini, and I can’t remember it all.
I should send a photo of the greenhouse now that we are finished with the hilarity of setting it up with people who DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ INSTRUCTIONS even though they were written by an American with excellent skills. I do know how to read and we had to backtrack a little to get back on the right path, and when it was finished we tweaked the framing because the instructions were just silly and wrong in a couple of places.
opiejeanne
Isn’t Ailanthus the Tree that Grows in Brooklyn?
opiejeanne
@MomSense: Beautiful. I love lupines.
opiejeanne
@Joy: I have a friend who tried this last year and swears by this method. Unfortunately she has become a True Believer to the point of being a tiny bit annoying. She thinks we should use this method inside the new greenhouse. Oy.
currants
@Bubblegum Tate: depends where you live, but here in New England, it will winter over, and will do best in in fairly poor but well-drained soil, lots of sun. I started some from seed a few winters back (creeping and German, I think), and it overwinters, and is beginning to fill in as a fragrant ground cover. I love it.
As it gets older, the stems get woody–I don’t think you can (or should) change that. However, I mow mine in the spring, so the woody stems stay near the ground, and all the new growth –higher up, the parts I cut to use– is the softer stuff.
Bill D.
@Laguna_Bob: I also recommend Peattie’s A Natural History of Western Trees, another classic, if you’re in the West or just interested in it.
@opiejeanne: That’s the tree.
NoComment
Honey Locust.
CatHairEverywhere
Looks like my thornless honeylocust.
Anne Laurie
@opiejeanne:
If the Brooklyn Tree was like the Bronx trees of a similar era, it was a honey locust — they shed long twisty dried seed pods all over our streets. There were ‘Chinese stinktrees’ (ailanthus) in every vacant lot or neglected back alley, but even we one-jump-above-tenement-dwellers knew those were to be killed with fire.
Bill D.
@Anne Laurie:
Nope. Tree of heaven, as quoted in the book itself.
Original Lee
@liberal: We usually spray them with hairspray and scoop them into the grass. The birds find them fast enough. We also replaced almost all of our deck with Trex.
Bubblegum Tate
@currants:
Good to know–thanks.
I’m actually on the west coast (Oakland), and we’re growing English thyme in an herb crate; we just want it for cooking, and based on how our last plants did, it seemed like the pattern was for the stems to turn woody, then the plant stops making leaves, and the leaves are really all we care about. So maybe it’s best to just prune the stems as they turn woody to keep new (soft) growth coming in?
dopey-o
it’s a stinkwood tree. they grow rapidly, and they are considered weeds. pull them up by the roots before they get a good grip, or they’ll be spreading across your yard forever. and your neighbors.
do it for the children!
Calcixeroll
Several have already gotten it, BobH – it is a honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos), and from your picture it appears to be a male.
The good news is that your yard shouldn’t be littered w/ locust pods this summer. However, some folks can be somewhat sensitive to the massive amounts of pollen it produces. To me, it has a pretty mellow-sweet odor during the early flowering season.