I have decided to celebrate the fourth by declaring my independence from the clutter in my home office. I have about 6 large rubbermaid containers filled to the rim with old computers and hard drives and cables, and I am organizing all the cables, throwing out all the old computers, and going through all the old hd’s with my thermaltake blackx before I smash them and put them out with the trash.
Later on I am going to make homemade pizza, and as always, watch the Capitol Fourth on PBS.
Roger Moore
Don’t throw computers out. They count as hazardous waste and need to be disposed of properly.
piratedan
how about simply wiping the drives and donating them to somebody who’s got nothing instead?
Citizen_X
yur wut?
Keith G
Why bother? All the President’s peeps know what’s on them already.
/snark
Jade Jordan
Please destroy the drive. Don’t want to see your old junk shots on Twitter. One Weiner is enough.
jon
If there’s a homeless/women’s/family shelter in your area, offer them the computers. I work at a small branch library, and the need for computer access is enormous. Even if it’s not the best computer, if it can get online it’s useful. Getting back on your feet is hard enough, but try finding and applying for any job (or benefits or anything else in this world) without a computer.
Plus, they might make good bloggers.
Newly-minted MBA
Joey Chestnut is an American hero. Obummer can’t hold a candle to him. Chestnut/Christie 2016
Comrade Mary
You can make pizza from old computers? Thin crust or thick crust?
gogol's wife
@Newly-minted MBA:
I’m reading the puff piece on Christie in People magazine from a few weeks back, and it’s really nauseating. I’m proud to say I have no idea who Joey Chestnut is, but I guess I’ll have to find out.
BGinCHI
@Comrade Mary: You can make it with a Windows machine but it crashes in your mouth every few seconds.
GregB
Happy Independence Day to you Cole and to the rest of the Balloonatics here.
gogol's wife
@Newly-minted MBA:
Okay, hot dog-eating champion. I guess that’s why he’s Christie’s running mate.
The sad thing is Christie’s sons look just like him. Thank God I’m too old to be around when they’re running for office.
trollhattan
@gogol’s wife:
Just don’t. Trust me.
Newly-minted MBA
@gogol’s wife: For your degustation
Comrade Mary
@BGinCHI: Blue plate of death?
gogol's wife
@Newly-minted MBA:
The link doesn’t work for me, but I think I don’t want it to.
trollhattan
@gogol’s wife:
Has Sandy forever erased the memory of Christie taking the helicopter to his kid’s game? If so, too bad.
gogol's wife
@trollhattan:
I’m reading it in installments, but so far there’s nothing negative except about his gosh-darned need to be so honest and authentic and truthful all the time!
dmsilev
Heading out soon with my parents for our annual expedition to brave the crowds at the Boston fireworks. Sadly, this year our favorite spot (the Mass Ave bridge, maybe 80 or 100 Smoots from the Boston shore) is closed, as it’s apparently being used as one of the launching points.
pat
You can’t seriusly not know that old computers have to be disposed of as hazardous waste??? They DO NOT belong in the trash.
Either recycle them as suggested up thread, or find someplace that will take them and dispose of them properly.
Litlebritdifrnt
John I posted this downstairs but wanted to post it again in case you didn’t see it. I cannot believe that these people actually exist, I am beginning to despair for this country.
https://twitter.com/gutjahr/status/352832149394714624/photo/1
I just made myself a kick ass quiche with my home grown tomatoes and green onions, added mushrooms, green pepper, frozen peas and a metric ton of cheese. It is now cooling in the fridge and I shall eat some tonight with a salad.
gbear
@Roger Moore: This. Recycle your electronics. If you have a Best Buy store anywhere near you they will take electronics for free, whether it be computer stuff or old boomboxes, stereo components or video players. There’s lots of dangerous chemicals in that equipment.
Villago Delenda Est
@trollhattan:
The question is, has Christie’s latest anti-gay screed erased the memory of Sandy and his embracing of the ni*CLANG* in the eyes of the teatards?
Mr Stagger Lee
Watching Enter the Dragon in memory of Jim Kelly who passed away earlier this week. A great classic Bruce Lee movies(40 years since Bruce Lee passed)
Linnaeus
There’s gonna be fireworks!
quannlace
You can always call ‘Got-Junk?”
Haven’t seen their ad here for a while.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
As already noted, please donate the computers, because A) hazardous waste and B) great need out there. It was worth repeating. Happy Fourth.
trollhattan
@pat:
We’re talkin’ West Virginnie here–they clearly go into the nearest coal mine shaft, along with the union organizer corpses.
Newly-minted MBA
@gogol’s wife: Not sure what happened there. This should work.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/9450389/joey-chestnut-downs-69-dogs-break-own-mark
quannlace
Latest I’ve heard about Christie is (from a book about the 2012 election) is that he threatened to drop the F bomb on live tv at the convention, if they didn’t put back his 3-minute trailer before his speech.
What loop-fest that Convention was.
gbear
Celebrating the fourth by being as non-ambulatory as possible. I screwed up something in my knee a couple weeks ago and I’ve been walking with a cane for a week. Last night while going upstairs I heard a big snap and I collapsed on the stairs. After a couple minutes inventory I realized all the parts were still in the right place so I hobbled back downstairs for an icepack. Hurts like crazy today but I can get around the house. The appointment with the podiatrist isn’t until next tuesday, but last thursday’s xrays looked OK.
gogol's wife
@Newly-minted MBA:
ESPN covers that?
andy
Watering the plants, a quiet hour or so at the coffee shop, maybe some parade viewing, make dinner, then run into work and kick out the daily…
Hal
I have to work today, but since it’s an official company holiday I get double time!! Also, I really enjoyed a marathon viewing of New Girl on Netflix yesterday, and am now officially in love with Zooey Deschanel. And Nick.
Newly-minted MBA
@gogol’s wife: You should hear the commentary! The color commentators refer to the eaters as “athletes” while they break down their “DPM” (dogs per minute) rate and pounds per square inch of bite.
Chestnut now has more titles than Jordan by the way.
dmsilev
@efgoldman: Hard to say. There’s a ‘secure zone’ which only encompasses the lawn in front of the Hatch shell and the islands, so it looks like the shoreline is still free-access. Given that, I don’t think there’s much security reason to close the bridge. Also, the Longfellow bridge is open at least for pedestrians. Some of the rules of what you can and can’t bring into the secure region are arbitrary enough that I’m sure the TSA has been brought in to run the thing.
Bruuuuce
@gogol’s wife: Oh, yeah. They’ve been running ads all week about “gustatory athletes”
Makes me a little sad that I went to Nathan’s (not at Coney Island) for dinner last night.
Gavin
I took about 10 old computers into the local recycling place. Everyone that works there (except the manager on duty) is mentally challenged. The two guys that helped me unload my truck were absolutely thrilled to get the computers. One of them exclaimed “woah, cool!” and they were both unloading the truck as fast as physically possible.
They must let those guys disassemble (read:smash) the computers, I can’t think of another reason why they would be so excited.
CADoc
It’s 106 here, so I bought the kids a slip and slide and let them have at it while I stay in the air conditioning. Both our water bill and our electric bill are going to be big this month! The weatherfolk are promising a break tonight….I don’t mind a hot Fourth of July, but 6 days straight of this with no cool down at night is making everyone weary.
Violet
Thanks to whoever recommended the movie “Paul” a few weeks ago. Watched it last night and really enjoyed it. I still don’t like Kristen Wiig, and she didn’t impress me in “Paul” either, but she didn’t ruin the movie for me, the way she does most other things she’s in. I did think the movie went downhill a bit once she showed up. Still, a lot of fun and the sometimes obvious, sometimes sly references to all sorts of sci fi and fantasy and other cult classic films were great.
lojasmo
Ugh. Just found out the wife has to go to Vermont for 20 days to organize some home care workers.
Big fight between AFSCME and Unite Here, evidently. Nobody wins.
Blah.
CarolDuhart2
I’m currently typing this using a used laptop. Used computers do have a demand. I never had a computer until I bought a used one from a computer repair place, and at the time a new one cost about $400.
Try freecycle if it’s in your area, the Salvation Army (or similar) or even just sit them out on your porch with a sign.
The Digital Divide still exists for some, and getting a workable and recent computer that can be linked up to the internet for free is a godsend. Another thing abouyt this method is that people will take them away for you, saving you time and trouble.
You don’t have to smash the hard drives unless something really, really personal is on them. The computers I have bought had absolutely nothing on them except Windows XP. There are programs that will absolutely help you do that and allow someone to use your computer right off the bat.
How to more safely dispose of computers and other devices
It’s My Fourth Too
A Fourth of July Playlist for the Ambivalent
JWL
The small town of Sonoma, Ca. puts on a fun and goofy parade every 4th of July. The floats and marching bands go for a patriotic laugh, and a good time is had by all.
I hate parades, so I never go. But my family just got back, and whaddya know?
There was a float which celebrated the patriotism of one Mr. Snowden.
According to my informed sources, it received huge applause as it wheeled by. The folks on the float were blowing whistles (“whistlebower”, get it?), and there were figures of a “see, hear & speak no evil” on board, leastwise from I surmise from the description I heard, although I might be wrong on that score (there were definitely people blowing whistles).
The bottom line is that a float celebrating Snowden’s “treason” was loudly cheered by the good people of Sonoma city and county.
Made me proud to hear that.
raven
Pouring again. Just put the fish on the water smoker, hope it don’t blow out.
RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual
I bought a Mac off Craigslist this morning. The seller had advertised the machine as non-working , so after dialing in my Dual G4, I decided to buy this one because it was the same kind of case and I wanted the parts. I was delighted to find a mostly serviceable Mac inside. It doesn’t have enough RAM for my taste, but it has extra hard drives and dual processors rated at 1GHz. Not bad for $20.
dewzke
Dude, like all said earlier…you can’t Hulk Smash and throw out that stuff. But you knew that.
raven
@efgoldman: Yep, big ass redfish I did the skull project with.
raven
@RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual: I dumped coffee in my macbook pro. The HD is good and I have no idea what else may be. Trying to figure out if it’s worth anything?
eemom
when I first read this I thought it was gonna go on to the effect of “this blog and you assholes” followed by a detailed breakdown of the numerous and sundry ways that we all suck…..and I was gonna say, but Cole, this is a holiday, it’s supposed to be different from every other day in the year…..but, oh well.
Happy 4th, Cole and all.
gbear
@efgoldman: I’m going to a guy who my doctor felt was really expert at knee problems. I have his name, a referral, and a time and address. To be honest, I’m not sure what his title is. I trust my doctor to send me to good people.
CarolDuhart2
@efgoldman: My first computer cost $200, but that included everything: the box, a CRT I still use, a pair of speakers, keyboard and mouse. All I had to do was connect it to the internet. Now four computers and seven years later, I still have my monitor, which outlasted all of the desktop boxes I have bought, and 2 sets of speakers.
Everything is migrating to the internet these days: banking, applying for jobs, education. Nowadays people assume you have at least an email address. If you don’t have a computer, you are pretty well stuck.
raven
@gbear: Is it Dr Hugo Z Hakenbush?
Bob In Portland
Blues Fest here in Portland. Daughter and her guy are up here for a few days. In the 70s. Good afternoon to sit on the porch and drink beer.
pamelabrown53
Happy 4th, BJers. Always loved this holiday as I grew up in the Mid West with lotsa fireworks, fairs and most importantly “fair food”. (Although I’ve never tasted a fried twinkie or fried butter).
As a gay ‘ole white woman, I’m sad that there is not more discussion and work to counteract the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.
gene108
@Newly-minted MBA:
Why? Did he beat Kobayashi head-to-head?
RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual
@raven:
Not much. The innards are possibly fried, and since it’s coffee instead of water, there may be residue on them. I’d just pull the hard drive out and try to find another machine.
For the hard drive, you can buy a USB drive enclosure for less than $20 to plug into the new machine once you get it.
raven
@RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual: I bought a new one and got a keyboard protector.
PeakVT
Here’s a sentence I got a chuckle out of:
Rupert Murdoch’s grovelling public apology over the phone-hacking scandal was, it pains us to disclose, not genuine.
CarolDuhart2
@PeakVT: Did anyone ever think he really was sorry for anything other than he was caught?
burnspbesq
Karma in action, hacker style.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/hacker-jester-targets-assange-snowden-ecuador
AHH onna Droid
Hey, I have old zip discs. Plan is to smash with hammer and toss. Do not own powerful magnet. Good plan y/n?
YellowJournalism
@eemom: Now that would have been a good fireworks show!
burnspbesq
@pamelabrown53:
Massive GOTV efforts don’t happen overnight. Stay tuned.
gbear
@raven: His name is Anderson. There are roughly 3 billion Andersons in MN.
Martin
@RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual: He want’s something like this.
Take pretty much any raw hard drive and turns it into a USB one, includes AC power if needed. $10. Saves a lot of fucking around.
scav
@PeakVT: Moreover, neither was it entirely believed or trusted by the very audience he was currently pandering to. Because exactly who recorded and leaked it pray tell? Pooo-ooor Rupie.
Keith
@Roger Moore: I’ve noticed that no one ever specifies what “dispose of properly” actually means. My dad used to think that disposing of motor oil meant dumping into a hole in the ground (“that’s where the oil came from”); I had to tell him that it’s supposed to go to autoshops, who have drums made for used motor oil.
raven
@Martin: Ordered, thanks!
PopeRatzo
I was going to do the same until I realized that nobody cares about 700 gigabytes of furry porn.
PopeRatzo
@burnspbesq:
You’re rooting for a self-described “patriot” hacker?
Strange bedfellows…
PsiFighter37
You need to take old computer stuff to recycling centers that are outfitted for it. Throwing it in the regular trash is about the worst thing you could do, outside of putting it in a blender and drinking the remains.
Botsplainer
My foot is not a puppy chew toy, goddammit.
raven
@Botsplainer: The dog is teething, get a clue.
raven
Fun piece about a guy using early photography techniques today.
Botsplainer
@raven:
Oh, I know. I’m fairly successful at distracting him, but he’s surprised me a few times by ambush. Those little nibblers are razor sharp, and my ankles are like chewed burger.
Citizen_X
@gene108:
Nobody ever beats the Kobayashi Hotdogyu exercise. It’s intended to be a no-win situation.
JPL
Wahoo! The rain has stopped, at least for the next few hours. This afternoon the pups and I watched Life of Pi. (Okay, they slept through the movie) The city canceled most of the carnival games and food vendors they have set up at the local high school, but the music and fireworks will go on. I should be able to hear the local bands starting at six and the fireworks will start whenever. The news just told me that tomorrow, the area will get another inch to three of rain. ugh….
Violet
@Botsplainer: Puppy teeth can be sharp! When my neighbor’s dog was a puppy she’d nip my ankles while trying to tell her mom that it was time for a walk, Walk, WALK! And stop talking to the annoying neighbor lady and let’s go for a WALK already! WALK! She’s a tad bit more sedate these days, but not much. She’s a sheepdog breed and she needs plenty of play and work time. Busy dog!
JPL
@Botsplainer: Buy a dozen, chew toys and always have one in your pocket so you can give it to the pup whenever he gnaws something inappropriate, i.e. your leg.
burnspbesq
@PopeRatzo:
Rooting?
Don’t know where you got that idea. A Fig Newton of your imagination, perhaps?
“Amused” and “rooting” are not synonyms in any thesaurus I’ve ever seen.
Botsplainer
He’s fed, worn out now and asleep at my feet. My ankles are safe for a bit.
Check this pic. His ears are going to perk up faster than I was expecting.
http://i.imgur.com/5jyfHiI.jpg
maya
@Botsplainer: Best toy/thingy for teething puppeh – either old socks knotted up or better yet, old nylon stockings knotted up. Will occupy puppeh for hours and leave ankles unacupunctured.
quannlace
“My foot is not a puppy chew toy, goddammit.”
*****
Your dog knows otherwise.
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer:
Squeee!
ricky
Wouldn’t a real American line up them hard drives for a little semi automatic target practice first?
Violet
@maya: When we had puppies in the house, they seemed to like an old towel. Same principle. They also like tugging on it and being slid around the kitchen floor while holding onto it. That was when they were slightly older, but still young. Lots of grrrr-ing and head shaking and excitement when they got to play with the towel!
quannlace
“Check this pic. His ears are going to perk up faster than I was expecting.”
**********
Damn, you just exceeded my cute allowance for the day.
What a beauty!
What breed or is he a mix?
Botsplainer
@JPL:
He really likes a rubber thing that I put food in. Also high on his list is an old rawhide chew that our old boy never finished. Other toys, surprisingly, aren’t as enjoyed.
He did keep dragging my favorite knockabout shoes out of the hall. I’m keeping them in the closet now, because he could make little shoe bits out of them in about 8 minutes.
H
maya
@Violet: Yeah. Anything they can sink their teeth into. We had German Shepherds and often found their puppy-teeth imbedded in the stockings. Also too, one of them had bad habit of chewing sofa pillows up when left home alone. Learned that if you left the radio on – a talky station – that problem stopped. Rushbo could be good for something.
Botsplainer
@quannlace:
He’s a Tervuren, a type of Belgian Shepherd.
He seems pretty bright. He hasn’t soiled his crate now for two days, is inquisitive without trying to run off outdoors, and with the exception of my arm, face, chest, calves and ankles, dissuades easily from chewing furniture.
I’m taking him to our exurban town square Saturday so he can get used to crowds and kids.
Haydnseek
@Newly-minted MBA: Why? Did he throw up in the lap of the Prime Minister of Japan during a state dinner?
raven
@JPL: The colors on the tuna and mahi were perfect!
raven
@Botsplainer: Tube face! I love him, looks like my first dog Ralph!
donnah
I can beat that cleaning chore. We cleaned out my late father’s garage, after forty years of his hobbies, collecting, and hoarding. We filled two fifteen yard dumpsters, three pick-up trucks, and a trailer, and we still have a ton of stuff for a garage sale.
Not to mention being hot, sweaty, covered with dust, sawdust, dirt and running from the world’s largest collection of silverfish. ugh.
Elie
Happy 4th to John and my fellow “Juicers” here… and many many more!
I am getting ready to start my clinical experience for my nursing re-certification this next week. Also packing to head back to my home in the Northwest (Washington DC to Washington State) with hubby at the beginning of August. I hate moving but love going back to my stomping grounds.
Hope everyone is having a great fourth. Recommend the movie “Mud” for anyone who is interested and would like to see a good movie…
lojasmo
@Botsplainer:
um. wow.
Jay C
Finally getting ready to head up to the Scenic Berkshires ™ just in time, we hope, to catch some of that sunny summer weather they are promising. Also hope that the record rains have subsided enough so that our pool pump and heater are no longer semi-submerged (we placed them, unknowingly, in a low spot back in the last Ancient Climatic Epoch – c. 2002 CE) so that we can get some swim-time in right away.
The last (only) time that spot got flooded was after Hurricane Irene – the eye passed over c. 10 miles from us – but Al Gore is a fat energy hog, so climate change must be a myth. Or something…..
Botsplainer
@raven:
Great photo! What snack were you tossing to him?
RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual
I’ve done some digging and found that this Mac has 4 drives inside it. 3 of them were good and have been erased. I’m installing 10.4 Tiger onto it as I type. It’s a fair machine. I’m glad I was able to find it.
Tomorrow after work, I’m going to talk to a guy who has large hard drives of the IDE persuasion for sale. If I can swing it on a package deal, I’ll be able to fill these old machines with terabytes’ worth of storage. I’m excited by the prospect.
gogol's wife
@maya:
No, please, I wouldn’t wish him on a dog.
gogol's wife
What would I do on a boring holiday if there weren’t Balloon Juice with puppeh pictures?
JPL
Well..just f..k. It’s raining again. I thought we’d have a few hours without a downpour. ugh..
maya
@gogol’s wife: Well, he was a German Shepherd and always ate from the right side of his dish, but, fortunately, Rushbo phemon wasn’t around back then.
RandomMonster
Must be something in the air — I got up this morning and decided that the only way I could start my new creative project was to rearrange all of the furniture and bookcases in my office.
maya
@RandomMonster: It’s that Egypt thing.
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman:
You’re thinking of Kenny Chesney.
eemom
@JPL:
Not today, but otherwise it’s been raining nonstop here in NoVA for like the last million weeks.
I was at a conference recently where climate change was addressed by some people who know their shit on the subject, i.e., insurance industry experts. They explained how it’s more about the wetting than the warming. The planet is fucked, and so are we.
Botsplainer
@eemom:
Here in the Ohio Valley, I can count the rainless days from the last six weeks on one hand.
JPL
@Botsplainer: GA was experiencing a severe drought a few years ago, so just wait and it will change.
It’s the extreme patterns that bother me.
J.D. Rhoades
@CarolDuhart2:
Used computers do have a demand.
Even 486s and Pentium II’s? ‘Cause that’s what’s in my shed.
Yes, I’m that old.
Mnemosyne
@gbear:
As someone who tore her ACL, I’m pretty sure a “snap” from that area is not going to be good news. There are two ligaments that hold the leg bones together, the ACL (Anterior Crucitate Ligament) and the PCL (Posterior Crucitate Ligament). Tearing the ACL is pretty common, but I’ve heard of people who play certain kinds of sports (skiing and roller derby) tearing their PCL, so it could be that, too.
There will probably be a whole lot of physical therapy before they decide whether to replace it or not. I’m also guessing that the new doctor you’re seeing is probably an orthopedist, not a podiatrist (or at least is familiar with both) since IIRC a podiatrist deals strictly with feet and would not go as far north as a knee, while an orthopedist deals with all of the joints.
ETA: R.I.C.E. — Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation. Do 20 minutes on/60 minutes off with the ice — that will do the most good for keeping the swelling down — and wrap the ice pack as far around the joint as you can manage.
Robert Sneddon
@J.D. Rhoades: Oldest working machine I’ve got is a NatSemi SC/MP home computer from 1975 which I built myself from a kit. The Cupboard of Doom includes some other working-when-last-powered-up machines of similar vintage (TI 9900 SBC, 6800 homebrew box, Z80 solderboard, 68k wirewrap SBC and maybe a few others) plus non-functional stuff like an S100 chassis, circuit boards and keyboards etc. from a Symbolics LISP machine, most of a Sun workstation and other bits ‘n bobs. Biggest single chunk of working kit is a Calcomp 1403 roll pen plotter (weighs about 200lb) which, if I can ever get the manuals for it, will become a vinyl cutter for the local Maker shop.
I was graduated from college before the PC came out. Yes, I’m that old.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
ACL is the worst-case scenario. I heard a pretty healthy “pop” when I tore my medial meniscus.
2liberal
i put the cables in baggies to keep them from snarling up with each other
gelfling545
@CarolDuhart2: 7 years ago for her 7th birthday I bought my granddaughter her first computer – an ibook clam shell for $50 on ebay & added more memory & an airport card. She has since moved along to other laptops but she still uses the original, used computer for storing her photos.
I’ve had good luck buying used computers. The 2 iMacs I had purchased, again used & under $100, on ebay, for my classroom in about 2000 were still working when a group at the local VA hospital held a salvage drive & I donated them last fall. They were no longer much use on the internet but for running the programs that I has installed they were just fine.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
I’m picturing a halibut with a hookah….
Mnemosyne
@burnspbesq:
The ACL repair is actually a relatively easy fix these days if you agree to use a donor ligament. It was the old way of trying to re-purpose some of your existing tissues that was so problematic. It was about a three-week recovery after my surgery before I was allowed to go back to work.
I really needed more physical therapy post-surgery, but worker’s comp wouldn’t pay for it. Sigh.
CarolDuhart2
@J.D. Rhoades: You will be surprised. I have a monitor from 2000 that still works. Other things in a computer could probably be used as spare parts from time to time.
And some very old computers may be needed to access information on floppy disks and zip drives in order to preserve them on newer media. Not to mention simple things like being hooked up to monitors for surveillance and such.
Ben Cisco
Worked all day.
ERP rollout tomorrow.
Ugh.
The prophet Nostradumbass
Pulled pork, East Carolina sauce, cole slaw, onion buns, chips, California wine, beer.
Lavocat
Do yourself a HUGE favor and take out all the hard-drives and DESTROY them all.
It’s sledge hammer time!
Then toss the remains into some battery acid.
You’re welcome.
This has been your anti-NSA Public Service Announcement.
Tone in DC
@J.D. Rhoades: Dude, our first PC was a 386SX. Yeah, a glorified 286. Cost crazy $ back in 1991.