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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by $8 blue check mistermix|  September 17, 201312:08 pm| 62 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Do you think the recent shooting in DC will interrupt the process of having sequestration declared as a sacrament of all of the religions endorsed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution? Discuss that or anything else in this open thread.

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62Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab25

    September 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    The shooting proves everything we’ve already believed and is a firm rebuke of every opinion we disagree with, Mistermix. Clearly, only more sequestration, more budget cuts, more tax cuts, and more defense spending can make our troops safe.

    This never would have happened under a President Romney.

  2. 2.

    schrodinger's cat

    September 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Nothing will change, as long as Obama is in the White House and the GOP controls the House.
    BTW here are my thoughts on the financial crisis, five year later.

    Edited for clarity.

  3. 3.

    PeakVT

    September 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Does anyone know when wingnuts started viewing the Constitution as a sacred text? My guess is that it coincided with the general rise of know-nothing evangelicalism in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but that’s just a guess.

    Also, too, I hate the phrase “Founding Fathers”.

    ETA: A lost generation.

  4. 4.

    raven

    September 17, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    It don’t mean nuthin.

  5. 5.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Does anyone know when wingnuts started viewing the Constitution as a sacred text?

    Tuesday, November 4, 2008.

  6. 6.

    schrodinger's cat

    September 17, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    @PeakVT: Also too, the Greatest Generation.

  7. 7.

    El Cid

    September 17, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    This shooting was obviously caused by the societal stress being experienced at the transition to Obamacare, which in October will convert this country to entirely a soshullist model of Kenyonesian origin. You should expect more such outbreaks, unless Obama has the courage to join with the John Birch Confederate Veteran Society in overturning this plan.

  8. 8.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Seconded.

  9. 9.

    srv

    September 17, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    How can it be a sacrament if Obama thought of it?

  10. 10.

    ? Martin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    This only makes the sequester even better. 13 fewer government employees and contractors. 100,000 more of these, and we’ll really be making progress in the war of northern taxation.

  11. 11.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    @? Martin:

    Part of the job of running cattle is occasionally thinning the herd.

  12. 12.

    gbear

    September 17, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Does anyone know when wingnuts started viewing the Constitution as a sacred text?

    They view it as a sacred text when they’re not wiping their butts with it. Even the elected ones have no idea how government works. Congress is just a total wreck now. All the wheels are off and the car is on fire.

  13. 13.

    WereBear

    September 17, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Welcome back! Your wit was missed :)

    If there is anything that will come of the Bullying Awareness campaign that isn’t about school, perhaps it will be the ways future generations will be aware that it is the favorite political tactic of the Right.

    I used to be bulled for my grades: “You think you’re so smart, don’t you?”

    I used to be bulled for my looks: “You think you’re so pretty, don’t you?”

    I used to be bulled for my attitude: “You think you’re better than me, don’t you?”

    I mean, yes, it’s true. What am I gonna do?

  14. 14.

    IowaOldLady

    September 17, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    The fluffling off of 20 dead 6-year-olds made it clear to me that nothing is to going to disrupt anything.

  15. 15.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    @WereBear:

    : )

  16. 16.

    rikyrah

    September 17, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Far-right House Republicans expect Obama to cave

    By Steve Benen

    –

    Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:43 AM EDT

    After President Obama spoke on the economy yesterday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) issued a curious press statement. After getting past some of the policy gibberish — Boehner wants to “grow our economy” by cutting “spending” — the Speaker added that the president “should work with us to delay his health care law for everyone.”

    That’s not a typo. Boehner wants Obama to cooperate with far-right Republicans to delay Obamacare, on purpose, because it would make far-right Republicans happy. (Left unsaid is the implicit threat: if the president chooses not to “work with” the GOP to delay health care benefits for “everyone,” those same far-right Republicans will shut down the federal government.)

    In the bigger picture, Boehner’s appeal borders on pathetic. The Speaker is effectively pleading with the White House to give in, just because, and agree to gut the president’s signature domestic policy accomplishment, while taking health care benefits away from millions of Americans — all to satisfy the hysterical demands of right-wing activists. Jon Chait published a terrific item on Boehner’s general appeal last week, explaining, “There’s really only one answer Obama can give here: Boehner can go f*** himself.”

    But there’s another question that’s been nagging at me. I realize Obamacare has driven Republicans mad, but what I don’t understand is their endgame. Do they really want a government shutdown? Would they welcome a potentially catastrophic breach in the debt ceiling? As it turns out, no — they’re working from the assumption that the president will cave.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20542472-far-right-house-republicans-expect-obama-to-cave?threadId=3818197&commentId=79036110#c79036110

  17. 17.

    dmsilev

    September 17, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Here’s another example of how the nitwits in Congress (and in particular the House) are making life more annoying for everyone. Helium is a natural resource which is used for all sorts of things, from keeping MRI magnets cold to industrial welding to inflating balloons. 50% of the helium used in the US comes from the National Helium Reserve(*) and is then sold into the supply chain. The law authorizing the Bureau of Land Management to sell helium expires at the beginning of October, and unless it’s reauthorized there will be both massive price shocks and massive shortages. And will Congress reauthorize the law? Who knows?

    Expect things like the price and availability of MRIs to be impacted. Me, my plan B is to go out and mug some clowns for their balloons.

    (*) Helium used to be a strategic material. Zeppelins and all that. That’s why the reserve was created in the first place.

  18. 18.

    Comrade Dread

    September 17, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Your responsible gun owner of the day.

    LaPorte County Prosecutor Bob Szilagyi said Monday the boyfriend of the victim’s mother told investigators he forgot the handgun was loaded when playing a gun game with the boy…

    Szilagyi said Grisham and the boy often played a game where the boy pointed his finger at Grisham and said, “bang, bang.”

    Grisham would respond by pointing his gun at the boy and pulling the trigger.

    Szilagyi said the investigation shows Grisham “this time forgot the chamber was loaded.”

    But we’re a pro-life Christian nation, right?

  19. 19.

    TaMara (BHF)

    September 17, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    The National Guard is one of this country’s greatest treasures. They’ve done amazing work with the rescues and the assistance with reconstruction. I’d hug each and every one of them if it wasn’t for that darned restraining order.

    ETA: They have said they’ve done more helicopter rescues than Katrina, which was the leader before this disaster. Does that make the Colorado floods Obama’s Katrina?

  20. 20.

    flukebucket

    September 17, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    @IowaOldLady:

    The fluffling off of 20 dead 6-year-olds made it clear to me that nothing is to going to disrupt anything.

    1,000 times this. After Sandy Hook led to absolutely not one god damn thing and George Zimmerman made it clear that America is totally OK with random psychopaths wandering around with guns playing judge, jury and executioner I said fuck it. This sick ass society is beyond saving and I even find myself wondering if it is worth saving.

  21. 21.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 17, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Why hasn’t the DEA looked carefully at these obviously drug using assholes?

  22. 22.

    ? Martin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    @dmsilev:

    And will Congress reauthorize the law?

    They’re trying to privatize the sales and eliminate the reserve. Price shocks and shortages are a feature toward this goal because it ‘proves’ that regulation doesn’t work (as opposed to proving that Congress doesn’t work). Nobody who relies on industrial helium is in favor of privatizing it.

  23. 23.

    Paul in KY

    September 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    @srv: Oh man…you’re blowing my mind?!?!?!

  24. 24.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Having half of the supply of helium being sold by the government means that the right sort of people are being deprived of half of their god-given profits on that element. Only a damned soc1alist would want that.

  25. 25.

    Ben Franklin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Aren’t most pump shotguns an AR-15? It has 5-shot capacity with a tube magazine. Detachable? No, but that capacity, man.

  26. 26.

    Paul in KY

    September 17, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    @Comrade Dread: He actually pulled the trigger?! Didn’t just say bang, bang himself?!

    They should look into whether or not this guy was setting the stage for this.

  27. 27.

    dmsilev

    September 17, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    @? Martin: It’s idiocy. The supply simply isn’t there in the private market (The NHR is something like 35 percent of _global_ helium supply). The reserve is finite of course, and eventually will taper off, but eventually tapering off over a period of a decade or more is not quite the same as abrupt termination.

    Our suppliers are pre-emptively running around like headless chickens, and the messages I’ve been getting from various national labs and the like are getting more and more dire with each passing day. Not looking forward to October.

    (Longer term, closed-cycle coolers are getting better and better which should cut demand from both the scientific community and the MRI operators, but the capital costs to retrofit are substantial)

  28. 28.

    Paul in KY

    September 17, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    @Ben Franklin: You have to ‘pump’ a pump shotgun. An AR-15, you just have to squeeze the trigger until magazine is empty (or it jams).

  29. 29.

    ? Martin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    They should look into whether or not this guy was setting the stage for this.

    What’s the difference? This was a 100% preventable killing. Start putting these guys away for murder, even if it was accidental, and we might see a change. But so long as the penalty is only that their gun permit is pulled, nothing will change.

  30. 30.

    dmsilev

    September 17, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Most of the potential producers (the oil and natural gas extractors) actually don’t bother capturing the helium that comes out of their wells. It’s a pain to do and expensive, and the price would have to go up substantially and stay that way before they could be bothered. That’s probably where we’ll end up though.

  31. 31.

    raven

    September 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    @Paul in KY: Don’t play with that stupid motherfucker.

  32. 32.

    Ben Franklin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    I know. Piers Morgan doesn’t.

  33. 33.

    Ben Franklin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    @raven:

    Who the fuck made you the Pope?

  34. 34.

    Paul in KY

    September 17, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    @? Martin: I’m talking about whether or not he wanted the child dead & used this ‘tragic accident’ as a way to bring that about.

    You are evidently not cynical enough, Martin, when it comes to men & guns & little kids they do not want to raise/pay for.

    It is worth a check by police investigators (I think). Did he have insurance on kid? Stuff like that.

  35. 35.

    schrodinger's cat

    September 17, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    @dmsilev: Yet another reason we need a Congress controlled by Dems.

  36. 36.

    ? Martin

    September 17, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    @dmsilev: Even if closed cycle coolers are getting better – and not all MRIs need helium, as a result, there will be new applications for helium over time. Somehow I think most of these guys believe that Jesus will just make more appear if we run out, because Jesus.

  37. 37.

    rikyrah

    September 17, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    ‘You’re not dealing in reality’
    By Steve Benen
    Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:11 AM EDT

    As if Republican government-shutdown threats weren’t in enough trouble, the looming crisis appears to be tearing the GOP apart.

    When a congressional delegation tries to pull off a scheme of this magnitude, they generally need two related dynamics to exist. First, a party needs to be unanimous — when Republicans shut down the government in 1996 and when Republicans launched the first-ever debt-ceiling crisis in 2011, there was practically zero intra-party dissent. Second, a party needs leaders who command the fealty of rank-and-file members.

    This year, neither dynamic exists. National Review published an interesting report on the Republican Study Committee’s weekly staff meeting yesterday.

    Max Pappas, an aide to Texas senator Ted Cruz who was on hand, rose to argue that in the event the House and President Obama were at odds when government funding expired, Republicans could pass a bill to fund the troops and other core priorities.

    At that point, a woman rose, identifying herself as a staffer to a Texas Republican. Pappas, she said, was “not dealing in reality” and making everyone else’s life difficult. The staffer, whom two GOP sources identified as working for Representative John Culberson of Texas, went on to decry Cruz for holding events in Culberson’s district and telling his constituents that defunding Obamacare would be “easy.”

    A significant number in the room of about one hundred people applauded the woman’s remarks, but several GOP aides said it was not a standing ovation or an overwhelmingly positive response.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20542750-youre-not-dealing-in-reality?lite

  38. 38.

    schrodinger's cat

    September 17, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    @? Martin: I don’t think Jeebus cares if we go the way of the dinosaurs.

  39. 39.

    Comrade Dread

    September 17, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    @Paul in KY: I’ve been trying to keep track of all of the various shootings by responsible gun owners since Sandy Hook, so I don’t know about this guy’s motive, but I can say that I’ve read about plenty of insanely stupid behavior involving dumbasses and their guns that didn’t involve malice so it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a ‘game’ he played.

    Fuck him. Fuck this sick depraved culture of death. And fuck the ‘pro-life’ party that continues to obstruct any efforts to do something about dumbasses and guns.

  40. 40.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    @dmsilev:
    Thank you for the facts on this. Seems to me that helium now has a place on the list of those things which must, must , must, be turned over to the tender mercies of the private sector. It’s the duty of Congress to not only turn over this resource, Congress must also provide tax breaks and incentives to helium providers now.

    I wonder how long it will take for them to work their way down to acorns.

  41. 41.

    Violet

    September 17, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    @Comrade Dread: Every time things like this happen, the gun owners need to be prosecuted. Your kid takes your gun and shoots your other kid? You get charged. You leave your gun accessible and your visiting niece or nephew finds it and shoots your grandmother? You get charged.

    “They’ve suffered enough” is ridiculous. They endangered other people. If they were drunk behind the wheel of their car and only killed their own kid, they’d get the book thrown at them. How is their kid finding their loaded gun any different.

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 17, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    @Ben Franklin:

    Oh, gawd.

    The AR-15 is a rifle, not a shotgun.

  43. 43.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    September 17, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    @Violet:

    THIS

    ETA: Although you might consider the fact that our government stands solidly behind the concept that killing people with some weapons is acceptable while killing them with other types of weapons is not.

  44. 44.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 17, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    @Violet:

    They demonstrate, on a fucking daily basis, that there are a lot of gun owners who cannot in any way shape or form be defined as “responsible”.

  45. 45.

    glocksman

    September 17, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    @PeakVT:

    The mid 1970’s is when I started noticing the fringe right really take off, what with the publication of Jesse Helms’ s book and the various conspiracy books about the Rockefellers and the CFR.

    Never mind Gordon Liddy’s autobiography.

  46. 46.

    Comrade Dread

    September 17, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    @Violet: I agree. I would also like to see yearly mandatory safety training requirements imposed on gun owners.

    The state forces us to go back and prove that we still know how to safely operate a motor vehicle every so often, how much more should we have to demonstrate that we know what not to do with a gun.

  47. 47.

    Paul in KY

    September 17, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    @Violet: I was saying that some investgation needs to be done to ensure this guy wasn’t really murdering the kid under the guise of ‘tragic game gone wrong’.

  48. 48.

    Violet

    September 17, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @Paul in KY: Yep. Boyfriend of mother conveniently rids himself of her pesky kid. Needs to be investigated.

  49. 49.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 17, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    @rikyrah:

    A significant number in the room of about one hundred people applauded the woman’s remarks, but several GOP aides said it was not a standing ovation or an overwhelmingly positive response.

    Which indicates that a lot of the people in the room are totally disconnected from reality.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    September 17, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    A very different kind of ‘sticker shock’

    By Steve Benen
    Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:39 AM EDT

    At the height of the crisis over U.S. policy in Syria, Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) delivered the Republican Party’s weekly address on how much the GOP hates the Affordable Care Act. “Many families are going to have real sticker shock when they see their new insurance rates — even families who get government subsidies,” he said.

    I’m beginning to think Barrasso may have been more correct than he realized. Many families may indeed have sticker shock when they realize how affordable access to coverage can be under the Affordable Care Act.

    About 6.4 million Americans eligible to buy insurance through the new health exchanges will pay $100 or less a month in premiums because of tax subsidies, according to a Department of Health and Human Services report to be released today and obtained by USA TODAY.

    The report by the HHS office for planning and evaluation said the lower premiums would primarily apply to insurance customers who buy what are called “silver” plans on the exchanges that open Oct. 1.

    “The health care law is making health insurance more affordable,” HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said. “With more than half of all uninsured Americans able to get coverage at $100 or less, the health care law is delivering the quality, affordable coverage people are looking for.”

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20543011-a-very-different-kind-of-sticker-shock?lite

  51. 51.

    gene108

    September 17, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    @? Martin:

    Start putting these guys away for murder

    I’d be O.K. with child endangerment. Who the fuck points a real gun at a little boy, when the boy is “shooting” you with his index finger?

    That is wrong on so many levels to “play” with a boy like that.

  52. 52.

    daverave

    September 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    That’s obvious as Jesus did nothing when they went extinct the first time… despite the fact that he was fond of riding them.

  53. 53.

    IowaOldLady

    September 17, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I’m killing time before I leave town and put MSNBC on where people are slinging crap about Obamacare. OMG. Where does Different Church Lady keep the STFU on Ice punch?

  54. 54.

    schrodinger's cat

    September 17, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    @daverave: I have seen those illustrations too. One of my friend’s parents were fundie, perfectly nice on the outside but completely loco about some issues.

  55. 55.

    cvstoner

    September 17, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Not even sure why these shooting incidents are reported with any more fanfare than a traffic accident. Not like anything is going to change because of it.

  56. 56.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    September 17, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    @rikyrah: What’s the guarantee they won’t shut the government down even if he does give in? That’s happened before – Boehner makes demands, Obama meets them, then, instead of taking the win, his batshit causus makes even further demands. When your opponent won’t take yes for an answer, negotiating doesn’t work. Besides which, he knows he’s bargaining from strength.

  57. 57.

    Comrade Mary

    September 17, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Oh my God, Steve’s run away to Russia and has become a librarian!

  58. 58.

    WereBear

    September 17, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    @Comrade Mary: Love the bow tie!

  59. 59.

    Comrade Mary

    September 17, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    @WereBear: More cat bow ties!

    Tiny hats on a three-legged cat!

  60. 60.

    WereBear

    September 17, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    @Comrade Mary: OMG. I love tiny hats on cats!

  61. 61.

    J R in WV

    September 17, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    I think it shouldn’t matter in any tiny minute way. Tragic accident ot brutal intent, the kid is dead, and the grown-up killed him outright with his gun.

    Put his ass away forever in prison, where he will live on kibble and water and be unable to hurt innocent kids. I’m not even sure we need much of a trial, since the whole thing is now on the record.

    He admits he shot the kid, put him away, right quickly, in case he’s planning on drinking a lot ’cause he’s so sad. If he drinks a lot, you know that’s just another shot at killing a whole family.

  62. 62.

    Tom Jackson

    September 17, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I am sorry, I just can’t bring myself to pronounce an “o” as an “a.”
    A baner is not spelled as a boner. Agent orange, please let the world
    pronounce your name phonetically.
    Thanks

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