Do you think the recent shooting in DC will interrupt the process of having sequestration declared as a sacrament of all of the religions endorsed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution? Discuss that or anything else in this open thread.
Open Thread
by @heymistermix.com| 62 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
Zifnab25
The shooting proves everything we’ve already believed and is a firm rebuke of every opinion we disagree with, Mistermix. Clearly, only more sequestration, more budget cuts, more tax cuts, and more defense spending can make our troops safe.
This never would have happened under a President Romney.
schrodinger's cat
Nothing will change, as long as Obama is in the White House and the GOP controls the House.
BTW here are my thoughts on the financial crisis, five year later.
Edited for clarity.
PeakVT
Does anyone know when wingnuts started viewing the Constitution as a sacred text? My guess is that it coincided with the general rise of know-nothing evangelicalism in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but that’s just a guess.
Also, too, I hate the phrase “Founding Fathers”.
ETA: A lost generation.
raven
It don’t mean nuthin.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@PeakVT:
Tuesday, November 4, 2008.
schrodinger's cat
@PeakVT: Also too, the Greatest Generation.
El Cid
This shooting was obviously caused by the societal stress being experienced at the transition to Obamacare, which in October will convert this country to entirely a soshullist model of Kenyonesian origin. You should expect more such outbreaks, unless Obama has the courage to join with the John Birch Confederate Veteran Society in overturning this plan.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@schrodinger’s cat:
Seconded.
srv
How can it be a sacrament if Obama thought of it?
? Martin
This only makes the sequester even better. 13 fewer government employees and contractors. 100,000 more of these, and we’ll really be making progress in the war of northern taxation.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@? Martin:
Part of the job of running cattle is occasionally thinning the herd.
gbear
@PeakVT:
They view it as a sacred text when they’re not wiping their butts with it. Even the elected ones have no idea how government works. Congress is just a total wreck now. All the wheels are off and the car is on fire.
WereBear
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Welcome back! Your wit was missed :)
If there is anything that will come of the Bullying Awareness campaign that isn’t about school, perhaps it will be the ways future generations will be aware that it is the favorite political tactic of the Right.
I used to be bulled for my grades: “You think you’re so smart, don’t you?”
I used to be bulled for my looks: “You think you’re so pretty, don’t you?”
I used to be bulled for my attitude: “You think you’re better than me, don’t you?”
I mean, yes, it’s true. What am I gonna do?
IowaOldLady
The fluffling off of 20 dead 6-year-olds made it clear to me that nothing is to going to disrupt anything.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@WereBear:
: )
rikyrah
Far-right House Republicans expect Obama to cave
By Steve Benen
–
Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:43 AM EDT
After President Obama spoke on the economy yesterday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) issued a curious press statement. After getting past some of the policy gibberish — Boehner wants to “grow our economy” by cutting “spending” — the Speaker added that the president “should work with us to delay his health care law for everyone.”
That’s not a typo. Boehner wants Obama to cooperate with far-right Republicans to delay Obamacare, on purpose, because it would make far-right Republicans happy. (Left unsaid is the implicit threat: if the president chooses not to “work with” the GOP to delay health care benefits for “everyone,” those same far-right Republicans will shut down the federal government.)
In the bigger picture, Boehner’s appeal borders on pathetic. The Speaker is effectively pleading with the White House to give in, just because, and agree to gut the president’s signature domestic policy accomplishment, while taking health care benefits away from millions of Americans — all to satisfy the hysterical demands of right-wing activists. Jon Chait published a terrific item on Boehner’s general appeal last week, explaining, “There’s really only one answer Obama can give here: Boehner can go f*** himself.”
But there’s another question that’s been nagging at me. I realize Obamacare has driven Republicans mad, but what I don’t understand is their endgame. Do they really want a government shutdown? Would they welcome a potentially catastrophic breach in the debt ceiling? As it turns out, no — they’re working from the assumption that the president will cave.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20542472-far-right-house-republicans-expect-obama-to-cave?threadId=3818197&commentId=79036110#c79036110
dmsilev
Here’s another example of how the nitwits in Congress (and in particular the House) are making life more annoying for everyone. Helium is a natural resource which is used for all sorts of things, from keeping MRI magnets cold to industrial welding to inflating balloons. 50% of the helium used in the US comes from the National Helium Reserve(*) and is then sold into the supply chain. The law authorizing the Bureau of Land Management to sell helium expires at the beginning of October, and unless it’s reauthorized there will be both massive price shocks and massive shortages. And will Congress reauthorize the law? Who knows?
Expect things like the price and availability of MRIs to be impacted. Me, my plan B is to go out and mug some clowns for their balloons.
(*) Helium used to be a strategic material. Zeppelins and all that. That’s why the reserve was created in the first place.
Comrade Dread
Your responsible gun owner of the day.
But we’re a pro-life Christian nation, right?
TaMara (BHF)
The National Guard is one of this country’s greatest treasures. They’ve done amazing work with the rescues and the assistance with reconstruction. I’d hug each and every one of them if it wasn’t for that darned restraining order.
ETA: They have said they’ve done more helicopter rescues than Katrina, which was the leader before this disaster. Does that make the Colorado floods Obama’s Katrina?
flukebucket
@IowaOldLady:
1,000 times this. After Sandy Hook led to absolutely not one god damn thing and George Zimmerman made it clear that America is totally OK with random psychopaths wandering around with guns playing judge, jury and executioner I said fuck it. This sick ass society is beyond saving and I even find myself wondering if it is worth saving.
Villago Delenda Est
@rikyrah:
Why hasn’t the DEA looked carefully at these obviously drug using assholes?
? Martin
@dmsilev:
They’re trying to privatize the sales and eliminate the reserve. Price shocks and shortages are a feature toward this goal because it ‘proves’ that regulation doesn’t work (as opposed to proving that Congress doesn’t work). Nobody who relies on industrial helium is in favor of privatizing it.
Paul in KY
@srv: Oh man…you’re blowing my mind?!?!?!
Higgs Boson's Mate
@dmsilev:
Having half of the supply of helium being sold by the government means that the right sort of people are being deprived of half of their god-given profits on that element. Only a damned soc1alist would want that.
Ben Franklin
Aren’t most pump shotguns an AR-15? It has 5-shot capacity with a tube magazine. Detachable? No, but that capacity, man.
Paul in KY
@Comrade Dread: He actually pulled the trigger?! Didn’t just say bang, bang himself?!
They should look into whether or not this guy was setting the stage for this.
dmsilev
@? Martin: It’s idiocy. The supply simply isn’t there in the private market (The NHR is something like 35 percent of _global_ helium supply). The reserve is finite of course, and eventually will taper off, but eventually tapering off over a period of a decade or more is not quite the same as abrupt termination.
Our suppliers are pre-emptively running around like headless chickens, and the messages I’ve been getting from various national labs and the like are getting more and more dire with each passing day. Not looking forward to October.
(Longer term, closed-cycle coolers are getting better and better which should cut demand from both the scientific community and the MRI operators, but the capital costs to retrofit are substantial)
Paul in KY
@Ben Franklin: You have to ‘pump’ a pump shotgun. An AR-15, you just have to squeeze the trigger until magazine is empty (or it jams).
? Martin
@Paul in KY:
What’s the difference? This was a 100% preventable killing. Start putting these guys away for murder, even if it was accidental, and we might see a change. But so long as the penalty is only that their gun permit is pulled, nothing will change.
dmsilev
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Most of the potential producers (the oil and natural gas extractors) actually don’t bother capturing the helium that comes out of their wells. It’s a pain to do and expensive, and the price would have to go up substantially and stay that way before they could be bothered. That’s probably where we’ll end up though.
raven
@Paul in KY: Don’t play with that stupid motherfucker.
Ben Franklin
@Paul in KY:
I know. Piers Morgan doesn’t.
Ben Franklin
@raven:
Who the fuck made you the Pope?
Paul in KY
@? Martin: I’m talking about whether or not he wanted the child dead & used this ‘tragic accident’ as a way to bring that about.
You are evidently not cynical enough, Martin, when it comes to men & guns & little kids they do not want to raise/pay for.
It is worth a check by police investigators (I think). Did he have insurance on kid? Stuff like that.
schrodinger's cat
@dmsilev: Yet another reason we need a Congress controlled by Dems.
? Martin
@dmsilev: Even if closed cycle coolers are getting better – and not all MRIs need helium, as a result, there will be new applications for helium over time. Somehow I think most of these guys believe that Jesus will just make more appear if we run out, because Jesus.
rikyrah
‘You’re not dealing in reality’
By Steve Benen
Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:11 AM EDT
As if Republican government-shutdown threats weren’t in enough trouble, the looming crisis appears to be tearing the GOP apart.
When a congressional delegation tries to pull off a scheme of this magnitude, they generally need two related dynamics to exist. First, a party needs to be unanimous — when Republicans shut down the government in 1996 and when Republicans launched the first-ever debt-ceiling crisis in 2011, there was practically zero intra-party dissent. Second, a party needs leaders who command the fealty of rank-and-file members.
This year, neither dynamic exists. National Review published an interesting report on the Republican Study Committee’s weekly staff meeting yesterday.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20542750-youre-not-dealing-in-reality?lite
schrodinger's cat
@? Martin: I don’t think Jeebus cares if we go the way of the dinosaurs.
Comrade Dread
@Paul in KY: I’ve been trying to keep track of all of the various shootings by responsible gun owners since Sandy Hook, so I don’t know about this guy’s motive, but I can say that I’ve read about plenty of insanely stupid behavior involving dumbasses and their guns that didn’t involve malice so it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a ‘game’ he played.
Fuck him. Fuck this sick depraved culture of death. And fuck the ‘pro-life’ party that continues to obstruct any efforts to do something about dumbasses and guns.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@dmsilev:
Thank you for the facts on this. Seems to me that helium now has a place on the list of those things which must, must , must, be turned over to the tender mercies of the private sector. It’s the duty of Congress to not only turn over this resource, Congress must also provide tax breaks and incentives to helium providers now.
I wonder how long it will take for them to work their way down to acorns.
Violet
@Comrade Dread: Every time things like this happen, the gun owners need to be prosecuted. Your kid takes your gun and shoots your other kid? You get charged. You leave your gun accessible and your visiting niece or nephew finds it and shoots your grandmother? You get charged.
“They’ve suffered enough” is ridiculous. They endangered other people. If they were drunk behind the wheel of their car and only killed their own kid, they’d get the book thrown at them. How is their kid finding their loaded gun any different.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ben Franklin:
Oh, gawd.
The AR-15 is a rifle, not a shotgun.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Violet:
THIS
ETA: Although you might consider the fact that our government stands solidly behind the concept that killing people with some weapons is acceptable while killing them with other types of weapons is not.
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
They demonstrate, on a fucking daily basis, that there are a lot of gun owners who cannot in any way shape or form be defined as “responsible”.
glocksman
@PeakVT:
The mid 1970’s is when I started noticing the fringe right really take off, what with the publication of Jesse Helms’ s book and the various conspiracy books about the Rockefellers and the CFR.
Never mind Gordon Liddy’s autobiography.
Comrade Dread
@Violet: I agree. I would also like to see yearly mandatory safety training requirements imposed on gun owners.
The state forces us to go back and prove that we still know how to safely operate a motor vehicle every so often, how much more should we have to demonstrate that we know what not to do with a gun.
Paul in KY
@Violet: I was saying that some investgation needs to be done to ensure this guy wasn’t really murdering the kid under the guise of ‘tragic game gone wrong’.
Violet
@Paul in KY: Yep. Boyfriend of mother conveniently rids himself of her pesky kid. Needs to be investigated.
Villago Delenda Est
@rikyrah:
Which indicates that a lot of the people in the room are totally disconnected from reality.
rikyrah
A very different kind of ‘sticker shock’
By Steve Benen
Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:39 AM EDT
At the height of the crisis over U.S. policy in Syria, Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) delivered the Republican Party’s weekly address on how much the GOP hates the Affordable Care Act. “Many families are going to have real sticker shock when they see their new insurance rates — even families who get government subsidies,” he said.
I’m beginning to think Barrasso may have been more correct than he realized. Many families may indeed have sticker shock when they realize how affordable access to coverage can be under the Affordable Care Act.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/17/20543011-a-very-different-kind-of-sticker-shock?lite
gene108
@? Martin:
I’d be O.K. with child endangerment. Who the fuck points a real gun at a little boy, when the boy is “shooting” you with his index finger?
That is wrong on so many levels to “play” with a boy like that.
daverave
@schrodinger’s cat:
That’s obvious as Jesus did nothing when they went extinct the first time… despite the fact that he was fond of riding them.
IowaOldLady
I’m killing time before I leave town and put MSNBC on where people are slinging crap about Obamacare. OMG. Where does Different Church Lady keep the STFU on Ice punch?
schrodinger's cat
@daverave: I have seen those illustrations too. One of my friend’s parents were fundie, perfectly nice on the outside but completely loco about some issues.
cvstoner
Not even sure why these shooting incidents are reported with any more fanfare than a traffic accident. Not like anything is going to change because of it.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@rikyrah: What’s the guarantee they won’t shut the government down even if he does give in? That’s happened before – Boehner makes demands, Obama meets them, then, instead of taking the win, his batshit causus makes even further demands. When your opponent won’t take yes for an answer, negotiating doesn’t work. Besides which, he knows he’s bargaining from strength.
Comrade Mary
Oh my God, Steve’s run away to Russia and has become a librarian!
WereBear
@Comrade Mary: Love the bow tie!
Comrade Mary
@WereBear: More cat bow ties!
Tiny hats on a three-legged cat!
WereBear
@Comrade Mary: OMG. I love tiny hats on cats!
J R in WV
@Paul in KY:
I think it shouldn’t matter in any tiny minute way. Tragic accident ot brutal intent, the kid is dead, and the grown-up killed him outright with his gun.
Put his ass away forever in prison, where he will live on kibble and water and be unable to hurt innocent kids. I’m not even sure we need much of a trial, since the whole thing is now on the record.
He admits he shot the kid, put him away, right quickly, in case he’s planning on drinking a lot ’cause he’s so sad. If he drinks a lot, you know that’s just another shot at killing a whole family.
Tom Jackson
I am sorry, I just can’t bring myself to pronounce an “o” as an “a.”
A baner is not spelled as a boner. Agent orange, please let the world
pronounce your name phonetically.
Thanks