Can I just state that the only thing in the world I hate more than shopping for clothes is car shopping? I’ll drop 200 bucks on the newest Cyborg gaming mouse and won’t flinch when paying top shelf for a good Viking chef knife or a nice cut of standing rib, but the idea of buying a car just gives me the vapors. I’ve only ever had two- the Chevy and the Subaru, and right now I am just trying to do everything I can to find a car that was just like my last one.
I did the same thing when the Celebrity died. I was paralyzed by indecision for months, then just said fuck it and took the bus for two years before getting the Subaru. Right now I have my eyes on a used Honda CR-V and a used Acura, but I just don’t know. Maybe a Forester. I do know that as much as I loved my Outback Legacy, I am getting something taller this time, because I simply can not drive after dark with the glare from SUV’s and fracking trucks in my rear view mirror. That, and I demand AWD, because the roads around here simply require them anymore.
Any thoughts? If I can get through this debacle we call buying a car and escape paying under 8k for a new ride, I would be ecstatic. I just want to get from point a to point b, have awd, and not kill the wallet or the environment.
Howard Beale IV
2008 Five Hundred AWD.
Xecky Gilchrist
It’s not unreasonable to be averse to car shopping. The experience almost always sucks. I gather the culture is changing a bit, but the dealer my wife and I had to go through to get our last car – even though we knew what we wanted and had a down payment IN HAND – was horribly smarmy and hard-sellish.
ETA – definitely not a process designed to favor introverts. If you’re not into confrontation, ugh.
reality-based
FWIW – I Love my 2004 Taurus, dependable as all hell – you can get good deals on them when people sell off Grandma’s car when settling the estate –
But more up your alley – I have friends who are undyingly loyal to their Honda CRV – great, they say, for transporting pets and people, Their first one smashed into an elk after a trouble-free 175,000 miles – they ran right out and got another.
oh, and it’s going to get 30 below here in NoDak tonight – be glad you are not here!
mclaren
Get a bicycle.
jl
Join consumer reports and check out cheapest and most reliable used and new cars?
Buy a litter, and see if any of your frat boys are interested in carrying you around. Tell them it is a bodybuilder secret training method and see now many bite?
Miniature rickshaw with a harness for Lily and Rosie?
You are a damn good Democrat who does GOTV for the team, so see if you can borrow Obama’s teletransporter? (I’m sure the time machine is for staff only, which is too bad, and shows Obama is the real elitist, BTW).
brendancalling
stick with subaru. My 96 Legacy is pushing 265K. This is its last year.
OTOH, the Honda element looks quite nice, spacious inside too…
Wag
We bought our last car through Costco. You go online, figure out what you want, and print a certificate that you take to the dealer that beats any other offers. No haggling, minimal BS from the dealer. It was easy.
Pogonip
I like my Honda and the dealer was not at all sleazy or high pressure. I have the Accord, which I understand is their middle-of-the-road model, so to speak. I think the Acura is the fancy version.
Wag
@mclaren:
This
Villago Delenda Est
Maserati.
Because they had an ad during the Super Bowl..
jl
Edit: and if Cole were uncaring about animals, he could grab onto Steve and try to shave his ass again. Cole would cover some considerable space in a short time. At least, select parts of him would.
Seriously, I second Pogonip: have had two, Civic and Accord. Both super reliable.
trollhattan
Audi. Iffn’ the locals wouldn’t fling chunks of coal at you for driving a snooty car, and all.
reality-based
oh, and re car-shopping – yes, but really, the web has taken a lot of the “am I getting a reasonable deal?” agony out.
1. Test drive cars at local dealers. Decided which one you want.
2. Go to any of the car shopping sites. Tell them you want (in my case) a 2003-2005 Taurus, under x mileage, dont care about color, show me all of them for sale in 500-mile radius.
3.. Bing! UP pops a lot of them.
4. Now you know what’s a reasonable range for the car you want. Use this info to dicker with. If you really want the green one, tell the dealership about the red one for sale for $300 less 40 miles down the road – chances are he’ll match the price. Of course, you probably still want carfax and a mechanic check and all that before you buy –
Really – car shopping on line is the best.
Mark H
Get a Prius. 50 mpg and I’ll never own another brand. I spilled salt water into the vent while carrying a small shark (the fish) and burnt out the battery, but if you can get someone to install a used one you can have mine as a gift. I’m serious. I’ve never owned a more reliable ride. I have a new one now and I no longer transport sharks in it.
max
I just want to get to point a to point b, have awd, and not kill the wallet or the environment.
And be an SUV, means no. You will get relatively bad gas mileage compared to something small like a Celebrity. Relatively.
Huh.
A 2007 Ford Escape (the original Mazda platform) for 9K$ around Wheeling. Main issue is it’s got 134k miles on it. Not a big deal to me. I dunno about you.
max
[‘It looks in pretty good shape. 9K seems a little highish, maybe, but this is WV panhandle, so the market is pretty thin for vehicles in general.’]
kc
Get a minivan!
efroh
@Wag: Seriously, Costco is the way to go, JC. I hate haggling with the heat of a thousand suns and the Costco process was practically painless. The hardest part was deciding what car to get, not the actually money bits.
jl
@reality-based: And if you do go buy in person, don’t dicker. I learned this when a friend helped me buy a car. Do research on what you want, and price range you can get, and stick with that. Period. Give some BS reason (or maybe it is not BS). Like you can afford to pay so much, period. Tell them if they can’t manage it, you will go to another place that can. Be polite bland, and firm and utterly unmoved by anything they say.
kdaug
Shit, son, don’t get me started. I grew up with an older and a younger sister, and a mom who would take us all clothes shopping together. Gah. It still gives me chills. To this day, I cannot shop for clothes for more than five minutes – that round ring hanger things, the smells, the jostling for hours… “oh, god, please just decide”
In re: the car – I lucked out on the internet. Look for a fleet vehicle. They retire them after a year, they’ve been well-kept, and usually have really low mileage.
johio
I channeled Dr Suess today: I sat on cat.
One of my cats likes to sleep on the couch under a throw I drape there for him. I forgot he was there today and started to sit down on top of the throw. He came flying out of the side of his “tent”, no doubt thinking, “WTF Lady?” He’s fine, but hasn’t gone back under the tent yet. He might accept my apology if I hadn’t been laughing so much.
reality-based
for example – here are the used CRVs, priced low to high, within 250 miles of Richmond, WV – from just one site –
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/used/honda/cr-v/_/N-ma9Zfg1Zg0qZm5d?feedSegId=28705&rpp=50&requestorTrackingInfo=RTB_SEARCH&stkTypId=28881&PMmt=1-1-0&zc=24867&rd=250&mdId=20762&mkId=20017&searchSource=SORT&crSrtFlds=stkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId&pgId=2102&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=miles&sf2Dir=ASC
Lolis
I hate car shopping too. Used car shopping is even more stressful because you have to worry about problems. I have always had the car checked out by a mechanic before I bought it. I still bought one that ended up having a significant problem and that sucked. Still, used is a smart way to go if you don’t care about anything fancy.
Jay C
@reality-based:
So IOW, you have just recommended to John that he take some time to do diligent research into car shopping. After he’s just posted a diary explaining (quite clearly) how much he hates shopping for cars. Your methodology, btw, is correct: I’m just not sure how applicable it might be to our bloghost….
And John: I think Consumer Reports gave a major recc to the new Subaru Forester – following on their reccs for all the previous models. Supposedly, it’s hard to go wrong with the marque.
max
@max: And be an SUV, means no. You will get relatively bad gas mileage compared to something small like a Celebrity. Relatively.
2007 Ford Escape, 17 MPG city, 21 highway. 19 combined according to DOE. That’s about right – any 4WD SUVish vehicle is not going to get great gas mileage. (Particularly with the 6 cylinder. The 2007 4 cylinder with FWD gets 20 city, 24 highway. However, if you’re using 4WD, don’t be an idiot, you want the six.)
max
[‘Unless you just like stalling out when you really needed that 4WD.’]
Mnemosyne
I was able to buy my car from one of the large dealers that the Giant Evil Corporation uses to buy their fleet cars from, so I got a pretty darn good deal and only got stuck with one option I didn’t want (the “winter weather” package that included seat warmers). I also considered going through Costco, but I got a better price with the GEC discount.
I ended up buying a Subaru Impreza in part because it was the one recommended by Consumer Reports, but I also liked it when I test-drove it.
The Dangerman
Buy a motorcycle. They are perfectly safe.
jl
I posted this outrage in the previous thread, but more appropriate here. But, gives me an idea. Look for a used hybrid from a little old lady in Seattle. Seems like it would be well cared for.
Partying Seahawks fans wait for green light before spilling into the street to celebrate
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/partying-seahawks-fans-wait-for-green-light-before-spilling-into-the-street-to-celebrate-212358797.html
Yatsuno
Don’t tell Amir: There are bronies in Malaysia.
askew
I’d stay away from the Acura. Everyone I know had one has hated them. Tons of repairs. Didn’t hold up well, etc.
On the other hand, I had a Honda CR-V for 15 years and loved it. I’ve known countless other people who have had CR-Vs and been thrilled with them as well.
hilzoy
(1) Find a friend you trust, who does not hate shopping for cars.
(2) Set basic parameters and price (reasonable, what you really would be willing to pay for a decent car, or might end up paying just to get it overwith.)
(3) Promise friend half the difference between the final price of the car friend gets you, which you agree to buy.
(4) Set friend loose.
Snarki, child of Loki
Some (all?) of the recent subaru’s automatically shift the rear-view to “night mode”, to avoid the headlight glare.
But you’re never going to be “safe” from SUVs unless you’re driving an SUV.
Or a tank.
NotMax
Back when it was truly a travail, was often dragooned by family and friends to go with them and be the designated dickerer.
In one such case (five hours of haggling, and after the papers had been signed) the manager slithered from his cubicle, motioned me over and asked that I never come into their showroom again.
Last time I bought a new vehicle for myself (mid-nineties), when it had arrived and went to pick up the keys, was told I couldn’t have them as the price they’d agreed to was too low and I would have to kick in another grand so they could make some mystical number to satisfy the car company. Long story short, “then I’ll see you in court” worked like a charm.
And, repeating from a few days ago:
Open Thread?
It’s Oscar month on TCM, so the pickings are lush, but must mention one particular standout coming up.
Tues., Feb. 4, 4:00 p.m. (Eastern) – Z
High up on my personal list of best political thrillers, and one I cannot not watch whenever it is on. Based on true events in Greece, it nevertheless transcends nationality in depicting the insidious callousness and casual brutality of power.
Sloegin
I did the Costco thing as well. Really painless. (Well, painless for still having to spend a couple hours in a dealership, but it’s all relative.)
What was really helpful was going to a car show prior to that. Got to sit in every vehicle for that model year with no salesmen standing there with dollar signs in their eyes. Scratched a bunch of choices off my list, and added a few that I hadn’t thought about before — all from how I felt sitting in them.
For a tall leggy guy like me, little things like head clearance, putting the seat back and still being able to see the gauges properly (or reach the steering wheel), or not having my knee jammed between the steering column and the center console (sorry Volkswagen)… or being able to operate the controls with gloves on. All the little things that would drive you nuts after only a few weeks.
Suffern ACE
Last year, I switched from a Subaru Imprezza to a Nissan Altima, mainly because I needed to move to a larger car and Subaru had not updated the Legacy last year (which was the year of the mid sized sedan). The Nissan salesperson was surprised that I switched because Subaru owners don’t often do that. So its not like you’re alone in the brand loyalty department.
After a year away from Subaru, I can say a little something about your situation. I probably made a mistake buying the Nissan. Don’t get me wrong. I like my car. I like the 30% better fuel economy. I like that the heating and cooling system works and isn’t mysteriously leaking away. I don’t miss replacing all of its tires at once. And I don’t miss the broken after market parts. I miss the manual transmission sometimes (but not when I’m stuck in traffic jams).
But I miss having a Subaru a great deal. Today in the snow, I miss the AWD, which I didn’t think I really needed because winters had been so mild lately and I only need it a few days a year and fuel economy is an all year thing but AWD really only makes sense a few weeks a year…or whatever it was I used to justify buying my “Older Uncle” car instead of the Subaru. Whatever anti-skid technology that is on the Nissan to make it “safe” to drive in rain actually makes the car a pain in the ass to drive in the snow. It’s not the same.
Just buy the Subaru.
matt
I’ve had great success going on craigslist and looking for cars with peculiarly low mileage and non-salvage title at low prices, for example a 1998 corolla with 90,000 miles for $2000, or a 1998 mercury sable with 30,000 miles for $3500. take a test drive and know that your downside risk is negligible and if you have reasonable luck you’ll have a car you wind up driving for less than $500 a year in purchase cost. be ready to spend a few weeks in entertaining thrill-of-the-hunt scanning of classifieds.
DemJayhawks
@askew: You know Honda owns Acura, and the mechanical underpinnings are nearly identical, right?
The Other Bob
@jl:
Don’t read consumer reports.*. They are brand loyal to a fault, and their data is limited to their readers, so it is a bad sample. If you are an expert about anything and then compare your knowledge to CR, you will realize they give bad advice. Ask anyone who bought a Tundra based on their recommendation and had to replace cams shafts, tailgates, etc.
Fortunately most cars are darn good now. If you like a certain car, go to forums for that model to learn that cars weaknesses from those who own them to avoid certain transmissions, etc.
My one rule: Avoid anything with a CVT transmission.
*waiting for the CR-lovers to whack me.
Villago Delenda Est
@Snarki, child of Loki:
Tank (Abrams M-1) fuel economy sucks. It’s gallons per mile vs. miles per gallon.
And the maintenance…yikes, what a total pain in the tuckus. But John knows this already.
Suffern ACE
@Villago Delenda Est: The Sherman had much better fuel economy. I think he can find one that still runs.
reality-based
@Jay C: oh, see –
what I figured is, John hates dickering with Car salesmen. (as any sentient being would. )
I didn’t think he would so much hate entering in some search terms, scribbling down a few results.
I found that an hour’s worth of web research saved me hours and hours of actual human interaction with people trying to sell me expensive things – well worth it!
(and I got a 2004 Taurus, 19K miles, $9995. (course this was back in Ca, in 2005 – but still, it was a good deal – and I knew it was, cuz I’d figured out my price, just kinda browsed for a couple of weeks till the best deal popped up. )
(of course, I still had to resist the hard-sell pressure to buy the Extended warranty, and all that crap – but really, it limited the arguing considerably!
Mnemosyne
@Sloegin:
I had that same problem with a Volkswagen Jetta that I rented, and I’m (barely) 5’2″. So I think it’s an overall Volkswagen problem, not a height problem.
cg
You are approaching this in the right way: agonize over it. I’ve gone to 210,000 with a Tercel, 234,000 with a Century, and 265,000 with an F150. I’ve never had the money to just shop, damn it. You have an idea of what you want. What will increase your chances of success is the number of options you have. Take your time.
cmorenc
My older daughter has a Honda CRV she’s owned since we gave it to her brand-new on her birthday in 2000, and it’s still ticking, despite having spent not just high school and college years in North Carolina, but through a New Hampshire winter, a Salt Lake City winter, and now two winters in Denver, Co. all the while serving as a ski car to the mountains, and obviously having been driven cross-country a few times.
I drove it two summers ago for her from Salt Lake City to Denver when she moved via a very circuitous route from SLC down through southern Utah canyonlands and back up to I-70 in Green River, Utah and on to Denver, as well as doing an NC-to-SLC drive. It was very comfortable, other than the fact it lacked satellite radio and all the available over-air stations from Tennessee to New Mexico sucked goat-hair.
It has only needed some relatively minor repairs that whole time, and obviously replacement tires, well over 100k now and still going in good shape.
Anne Laurie
@hilzoy: Second this, John.
There are people who enjoy shopping, even particularly car shopping. It’s not a skill they get to use very often, because people who enjoy car-shopping get good deals on reliable cars. Find one of these people among your vast acquaintanceship, and let them Do It For You.
TaMara (BHF)
Edmunds has a good review section on almost any vehicle & year. Like Amazon, but for cars.
I just bought my first new car in 20 years and loved every minute of it. Sorry.
Mike in NC
@askew: My wife and I bought 2004 Honda CR-Vs from the same dealership on the same day. Must have given the salesman a stroke. Hers has about 75K miles on it whereas mine has 200K+ since I spent the better part of the last four years driving 50 miles each way to work at a job I fucking hated.
I might buy a new one when my military pension kicks later this year.
Ed
Last year, I bought a Used 2006 Honda CRV with 60K miles. Because our 2003 Honda minivan just hit 160K without any issues. They know what they are doing. That said, the Subarus look nice to me as well ( but my wife hated them). But I wanted the CRV even before we went shopping, we were just lucky to run into one.
JCJ
Subaru seems to be a good deal for the money. My 1996 Audi A6 station wagon was dying a miserable death so I bought a 2013 Subaru Outback. I liked the Audi more, but the Subaru is so much less money there was no way I could justify an A4 or Q5. I maybe should have gotten something smaller (Impreza Sport, perhaps?) The auto-dimming rear view mirror is really nice. If a used Subaru doesn’t have one maybe you could get one from a junk yard for whatever year you get.
The Other Bob
@max:
FYI- the Escape was not built on a Mazda platform, actually, Mazda sold the Escape as their own, which was built in a Ford plant. The original Escape platform originated as the Contour of all things and was used under the Escape, the Mercury Cougar and even the Jag X-type if I remember correctly.
max
@Suffern ACE: Just buy the Subaru.
If you can find one. Problem Cole has is he is where he is. GM & Fords in SUV & trucks are easy to come by, and compact Japanese cars, but Subaru is going to be fairly exotic.
That said, Suburu is fine, Toyota is fine, Ford is fine, Honda…yuck. Same with pre-bailout Chrysler. Way better than Kia though.
max
[‘Nissan baby trucks were pretty cool back in the day, dunno about their lineup now.’]
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Yatsuno: Fixed yer link. And congratulations on Seabirds mauling of the vaunted Denver offense.
No help here, Cole. I bought a used Mini last fall in a fab color, for a good price, and I love it. 36.2 combined mpg and tons of fun to drive. Rather like an old MGB except it runs reliably.
reality-based
@matt:
True, this -I’ve had really good luck with “Uncle Joe’s old car, he didn’t drive much before the end , poor fellow – ”
–but Uncle Joe usually doesn’t drive Subarus or CRVs – at least up here, he drives huge old Buicks. They run forever, though.
TaMara (BHF)
@max: Well he is coming to Colorado for vacation. Swing a stick and hit a subaru here. Buy one off craigslist and drive it home.
Chasseur
The 2010 and newer Outbacks are MUCH taller than yours (which I take to have been older?). Didn’t love ours at first, but it’s been pretty great.
Badtux
Depends on whether you want new or not. If you’re looking at used cars, any small Japanese SUV (Honda CRV, Honda Element, Toyota RAV-4, etc.) will be reliable and fairly thrifty. Make sure you are looking at an AWD one though, they sell 2wd versions too. Earlier models tend to be thriftier than the current models, because the Japanese have decided bigger is better — each generation gets bigger than the previous one. You could also go for another Subaru, they are quirky but still a good car. Avoid any American SUV’s, they’re unreliable, burn gas like it’s going out of style, and generally uninspiring.
If you’ll consider a minivan for your menagerie, the Nissan Quest is the only one available with AWD. Be aware that any minivan is not going to be particularly fuel-efficient. Nissan has a hybrid minivan that they sell in Japan, but they won’t import it here because it’s smaller than the Quest and they don’t feel Americans will buy it.
max
@The Other Bob: FYI- the Escape was not built on a Mazda platform, actually, Mazda sold the Escape as their own, which was built in a Ford plant. The original Escape platform originated as the Contour of all things and was used under the Escape, the Mercury Cougar and even the Jag X-type if I remember correctly.
Well, I misread – they were saying that the Ford CD2 was based on the Mazda GF platform in a joint development. I saw Mazda and vapor-locked since I was thinking of stuff like the early Y2K Focus cars and the like, with the Mazda engines. (Or all the way back to the original Ford Courier in the 70’s.)
max
[‘It’s not a bad lookin’ car, but I prefer Explorers to both the Escape and the Expedition (‘an F-350 by any other name’).’]
Bill E Pilgrim
I think what John is saying here is that his pants have also been sitting in a farmer’s field for the past several months.
jl
@The Other Bob: Actually, I agree with you. I was giving consumer reports as an example, though I see now I typed too quick to point that out. When I was looking for cars, I did join consumer reports, but did some cross checking with other sources.
I found CS pretty reliable, and their ratings pretty much in line with others. But that was almost ten years ago. And I had decided on a small group of high reliability low maintenance cars before I did any detailed research, so I may have been spared makes and models where CS gives bad advice.
But, some commenters above say that all of us who suggest such a thing as Cole doing research are nuts, besides just not listening to the man, so no more advice from me. Cole and I apparently do some things so differently, he will have no interest in anything I have to say.
Edt: at least on orthodox ideas. Maybe Cole will consider the doggy rickshaw. Rosie might work off some of her excess energy that way.
Violet
Love Subarus. I kind of think “once you go Subaru you don’t go back,” but I’m sure people have and are happy with their decisions.
Hill Dweller
I just watched The Hunt, starring Mads Mikkelsen, on Netflix. It is a good film, but brutal in parts.
Suffern ACE
I’m wondering. John has a friend whose book was just recommended by Oprah. That should increase sales of the book quite a bit. If John likes said friend’s car, John should just call said friend and talk him into rewarding himself for his recent successes and acclaim by purchasing a new Mustang. Once friend has the new Mustang, John can offer to buy his old car. Problem solved. No need to go to dealers, test drive, or leave the house.
max
1998 Suburu Outback, 4WD, 4 cylinder, auto, 92k miles, for the low low price of 4,900$.
max
[‘We’ll make it easy, Cole!’]
trollhattan
@max:
You didn’t include the added text: “Currently stuck in mah pasture, so come get it, cheep!”
Bill E Pilgrim
FWIW I finally went the new car route, never thought I would, but I did. The surprising part was that when I added it all up, selling it after only five years, even including financing it had cost me less per year to own than the used cars I used to drive (and work on, and buy cheap and fix up, and etc etc) had. And I got to drive a new and trouble-free car the whole time. You make payments, it runs, what a concept.
If you buy the lowest priced model Japanese car, cheapest thing you can get new, no frills, get a good deal, good rate, take care of it, it’s kind of amazing how much of that you can recoup selling it. In my case anyway I was amazed.
Yatsuno
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Link worked for me. Oddsfish.
Mike in NC
@Hill Dweller: For a brutal depressing movie look to “Prisoners” with Hugh Jackman as a dad looking for his abducted daughter.
Suzanne
I adore my CR-V. I have a 2000 with “real time 4WD”, so I’m sure the AWD will be better. It is comfortable, and reliable. I bought it used, ten years ago, so the thing is 14 years old and has 186K miles on it. It just got a new transmission last fall, but other than that and some body work when a dipshit rear-ended me, it has been trouble-free. I am hoping to have it for another year and a half or so, because we want to pay off Mr. Suzanne’s car. When I get a new car, I’m either going to get another CR-V, or a Nissan Rogue.
Gretchen
Some Honda CRV’s are a rollover risk. They may have fixed this in newer models but I have a friend who was hit in a CRV’s and rolled 2 1/2 times. Good news was she wasn’t hurt but she looked for stability in the next car.
Anne Laurie
@Yatsuno: There was an extra http://, such as FYWP will occasionally throw up. Figured you wouldn’t mind if I fixtd.
bluefoot
My brother has a mid-2000s CRV and loves it. He lives in Vermont near Burlington, does a lot of driving for work. he says it’s been 100% reliable and handles well even on crappy roads (i.e. ice and snow). I’ve heard newer Hondas aren’t as good/reliable and they have definitely increased in size.
Xyzxyzxyz
I had a 2006 CRV that I lost in a divorce settlement. All I can say is that after the kids, that was the most fought over “asset”. I love my kids, but I really loved that car.
coin operated
My sister is happy with her CRV…130K trouble-free miles. I do have an opinion on the Subarus…the 2010+ Outback redesign is awesome, but they added a bit of weight and the 4-banger they slap in there is a gutless wonder. I was looking for a 6-cylinder, but the g/f found a 4-banger for a good price. I bought it, and regretted it on my first trip up to the ski slopes.
Yatsuno
@Anne Laurie: Appreciated muchly! Plus they’re kinda funny.
BillinGlendaleCA
@askew: My wife had 2 Acura Intengra’s, loved both of them. First one was given to the kid, 2’nd got hit by a cab.
askew
@Mike in NC:
Mine had 170K on it and I only gave up on it because the bottom of the car was rusting through from all the salt we use on the roads in Minnesota. I loved that car. I was too cheap to buy another CR-V this time and got an Accord instead. I like it but I miss the way the CR-V handled in the ice and snow.
Our family’s 1st Acura, on the other hand, was cursed. It was white and got hit with a can of neon green paint the day after it was purchased. Then, it got hit during a cop chase in Chicago and then a branch fell on it and the whole body had to be re-done. Plus, it has those stupid automatic seatbelts that kept locking up whenever you stopped suddenly.
Linkmeister
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Wait till your passenger airbag sensor light comes on. Or till your tire pressure alarm comes on on your RunFlat tires.
I’ve got a 2005 Mini I bought in 2012 for $6K with 65,000 miles on it. Great price and it drives well, but every damned error light costs a fortune to fix. The passenger airbag light: $1,745 to exchange the seat cushion for one with a working sensor, and labor wasn’t the most expensive piece of the bill. I suspect the blasted tire light is going to be unpleasantly expensive too. You can’t be a shade tree mechanic or even go to generic shops much anymore: none of them have the computer manuals for the specific cars. So you end up at the freakin’ dealer and pay their exorbitant service rates.
Amir Khalid
@Yatsuno:
Don’t tell me what?
Mohagan
I’m another vote for a Honda CR-V. I bought mine new in 2003 (on demand 4WD, stick shift) so it’s 10 years old now with 100,000+ miles and haven’t had a thing go wrong with it except the air conditioning died 2 times. The first time the local dealer (where I had bought it) replaced it for free since it was way too early to be having a problem, and then it was replaced last year with them paying for the parts and I paid for the labor, so got it repaired for about 1/2 price. Both times the dealer chalked it up to “customer good will”. For 8 of those years I lived more than 5 miles up a dirt road, commuting to town every day, so the car hasn’t been spoiled (I don’t spoil my cars – just my cats). I live in a smallish town in N CA, and there are a ton of CR-Vs in town – very popular car, for good reason.
Chris T.
Subarus (Subarua? no, wait, it’s not Latin) are pretty decent. The newest Forester fixes a bunch of annoyances people had with the older ones. The only drawback is that the mileage is not great, although the CVT versions of Subarua, er, Subarû … awh you know what I mean! … where was I? Oh right, the ones with CVTs are a lot better mileage-wise than the older ones.
(We almost got a higher end Outback to replace my old Forester, but the wife liked the other car too much more…)
opiejeanne
Check with your local Costco. The ones here have deals set up with some dealers that will get you a better price than you can negotiate by yourself. We bought a Subaru Forester last December this way.
CarMax for used cars.
opiejeanne
@Xecky Gilchrist: we walked into one dealership and it was like the bad old days. They had a raised area for the managers and it was all hard sell but we didn’t see any of this until we’d driven several used cars.
We walked away.
John Casey
haven’t read the other comments, but that won’t stop me from telling you, fuck it, get the CRV. We’ve had one for 2 years now, and it’s been outstanding.
Goblue72
You know you want a Subaru. Sooo-baaaa-roooo….. CRVs are nice enough – but I’d rather have a Subaru if crappy weather warrior is a key criteria.
Stan
If you can find a better car for your money than a Mazda 3, then more power to ya. Great cars, great value.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@John Casey:
I had a CRV from 2001 – 2013 and adored it.
Otoh, I drove a rental Toyota RAV4 last week and really liked that. 4wd available.
Pogonip
@reality-based: I had an ’04 Taurus, did all recommended maintenance. The thing went through three starters in two years and developed all kinds of expensive problems at only 95K. No more Fords for me.
russ
Craigslist is a good source for cars for sale by owner. the 2000 to 2005 model of Outback are reliable and many standard shifts are out there. Things to ask, timing belt need to be replaced EVERY 90,000 miles and usually the water pump and belt tensioner should be replaced at the same time. Head Gasket? do compression check before you buy. .Hub assembly’s should be checked also for wheel bearing wear. Can be had all those years for 4 to 8,000.00.
Jamey
One driver’s opinion: If you’re willing to go small, get a used Honda Fit (2010-13). You can grab one for approx $12k.
Solid little car. Tons of cargo space–I squeezed a 14 cubic foot apartment fridge in the back. Great mileage if you baby the throttle (I regularly get 41 mpg highway, even though it’s EPA-rated @35 mpg; I’ve never gotten <32 mpg–and that was when I was carrying two bikes on the roof-rack. Sporty handling; slightly anemic power–get the m/t model for better passing performance.
I simply love this car and plan to drive it till it drops.
Jamey
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Wish I could agree with you that the Mini runs reliably. Mine, a 2004, went through three transmissions in <36k miles, and was besieged by other problems (phantom warning lights and sensors, etc.)
Cute car, though, Drove nicely.
Scout211
Another vote for the Honda CRV with AWD. I have a 2010 with 86,000 trouble free miles.
I did not choose the upgraded package, though, and really miss the lumbar support that I had in my previous car. So test drive one for comfort.
currants
@jl:
(Or see if your library has it)
Tim F.
Use your Costco membership. Good luck finding dealer invoice minus $100 with no negiotiation any other way.
But $8k? Ha. You’re getting a ten year old Outback Sport.
Soonergrunt
Ford Edge is available in AWD.
Lee
Stay away from Subaru
In their owners manual it is ‘normal’ to lose 1 quart of oil per 1200 miles. So if you are starting to mysteriously lose oil and it is less than a quart/1200 then you are screwed.
Friend at work is going through this right now with the dealership. Right now he is right at quart/1200 and they won’t do a single thing until it exceeds that loss.
After some researching he found that it is not that unusual of an occurrence for Subarus.
I’d stick with a used Toyota or Honda maybe a Ford.
tybee
@Pogonip:
i had a 91 taurus. never again. never.
i don’t think ford could even spell quality much less produce it.
tybee
@Mark H:
wanna share that story?
Savage Henry
When somebody calls into Car Talk to ask for a car recommendation, Click and Clack always recommend the Subaru Forester.
So there’s that
WaterGirl
LOVE my honda crv!
And I’m on my iPad, so I had to press shift 4 times in order to put love in caps. The crv and the Subaru are the two best vehicles I’ve ever had.
Mine is a 2005, if that makes any difference.
WaterGirl
I used to do my car shopping in parking lots. I like this one, don’t like that one, etc until I got a feel for what I was looking for.
Now I would just buy whichever honda or Subaru floated my boat.
WaterGirl
I used to do my car shopping in parking lots. I like this one, don’t like that one, etc until I got a feel for what I was looking for.
Now I would just buy whichever honda or Subaru floated my boat.
Denali
@Mark H
I will never transport a shark in my Prius either.
WaterGirl
@Gretchen: rollover risk was changed with the 2005 honda crv. That’s why I bought a new 2005 instead of a used crv.
As for rust, a year ago my car repair guy asked how long I planned to keep my 2005 crv. I said until they pry it from my cold,dead hands. He said I should get the rust protection, because otherwise rust would be an issue long before anything else.
Bex
If this was mentioned earlier I missed it, but if you buy a used CR-V, make sure the model year isn’t one that included an air conditioning unit prone to blow up (literally).
Birthmarker
All I know is my sis has had like 4 CR Vs in a row and has loved them. All bought used.
Me, I love my 01 Highlander 4 cylinder with 223000 miles on it. No major repairs, though we do all routine /preventative maintenance. It pushes 25 mpg which is good enough for me. It also has taken the hills in the Smoky Mountains beautifully.
Tim F.
@Savage Henry: They stopped doing that even before they quit making new shows. The Forester has grown from the world’s most sensible wagon into a stupid-large SUV. I guess they needed to re-niche it to stop cannibalizing sales from the Legacy.
Lee Hartmann
I’ve had two Foresters – the first one lasted 10 years and then I gave it to my dad who is still using it 3 years later. AWD and just high enough to get a good view.
Berial
I ended up getting a ’12 Ford Focus while shopping for a car last October. I had to replace my ’05 Accord because some hail damage did more damage to it’s body than the entire car was worth. (Damn but I loved that car! THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE WRONG WITH IT!) If you want a used Subaru good luck, I couldn’t find any within 200 miles of my area. I’ve never owned one but apparently their owners are LOYAL, and keep their cars till they fall completely apart.
I don’t know about the current models, but I can’t speak highly enough about the Honda Accord I had. My only complaint was that it was just old enough that it didn’t have an AUX connection for a phone hookup, so I couldn’t easily use my iPhone for audio books or podcasts.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I grew up in Michigan and have lived in Maine. I’ve never had an AWD vehicle and have rarely gotten stuck, and never so stuck that a push wouldn’t get me out. If you want an AWD that’s fine, but I call shenanigans on conditions in WV “demanding” it.
My cousin is an auto mechanic and loves his CR-V, so that should tell you something. If you fit behind the wheel comfortably they’re great vehicles.
JR in WV
New Richmond WV is between Mullens and Pineville in Wyoming county, way SW in WV and probably 4 or 5 hours from Betheny where Cole lives. It was once a corp camp, but is probably nearly vacant now… Probably an hour to the nearest Honda dealer, or more.
JustRuss
Hard to go wrong with Honda. My Element has 86,000 miles, no issues. Same drivetrain as a CR-V. Element might be better for you, not as passenger-friendly, but great for hauling cargo, or dogs. And no carpet, just Cole-proof rubber flooring. They’re all over the northwest, might be hard to find on the east coast. And some only have 2WD, so don’t assume it’s AWD. I get about 28 mpg on the highway if I keep it under 65.
chopper
@JustRuss:
my element is over 10 years old and still chugging along. the interior is great when you have dogs. shit, i left the windows down accidentally during the rainstorm the other day (who would have thought it would rain in california?!), and just wiped up the puddles in the inside with a beach towel.
not the most aerodynamic car, i’ll give you that.
Gus
My wife and I really liked the Hyundai Tucson we had. Unfortunately it got flooded in a freak rain storm last summer and the electronics were unreliable afterward. We went the opposite direction with its replacement, a Prius. Love the milage, reliability, and ride. Not a great Minnesota winter car, though, and doesn’t meet your AWD/ridin’ high requirements. The Tucson does, but milage was not very good.
Shinobi
I just had to buy a new car because the wheels were falling off my 12 year old ford. I got a new model ford escape with 4wd, figure i’ll be driving it for another 12 years, but so far I like it. Definetly not easy on my budget though. I have regrets.
Though it turns out a huge number of my family and friends have bought these in recent years, they are really solid models, lots of nice features. Here’s hoping I feel the same way in 12 years.
kathleen
If you possibly can, you should “buy American.” If we say we support the American worker, we need to support his job. And I know that’s harder these days. Still worth doing, in my opinion. Ford and GM have had some good stuff for a couple of years; some of it must have made it to the resale market by now.
Howard Beale IV
@Gus: The sooner you ditch the stock Prius tires, the better off you’ll be.
bob h
I have a 2007 Volvo V70 and am astounded by what a good car it is; it seems designed to be as little trouble to you as possible. Sounds like you may not want that big a car, but maybe the V60 or a smaller model is something you could look at.
Absolutely no problems and minimal maintenance in 7 years.
Gusnite
@The Other Bob: Hah! First time I have met or heard anyone else who thinks Consumer Reports has a serious sampling issue in its car recommendations. I so agree. Plus all Hondas are equipped with a canister of “love me” gas that causes their owners to forget all the expensive repairs that in my experience accompany the brand. But now I’m gonna get stomped….
JustRuss
@kathleen: Regarding “buy American”, most Hondas and Toyotas sold in the US are built here. And many GM and Ford vehicles are built in Mexico. You really have to do your homework if you want an American car.