(via Gawker)
Per the Washington Post, the Dallas County prosecutor is considering criminal charges against Thomas Duncan:
… “We are looking at whether he intentionally and knowingly exposed the public to the virus,” said Debbie Denmon, a spokesperson for the Dallas County prosecutor’s office…
Denmon said the prosecutor’s office is debating whether to file aggravated assault charges against Duncan.
The case would be similar to other cases in which defendants have knowingly infected people with the HIV virus, she said.
“If he ends up being on his deathbed, it would be inhumane to file charges,” she said. “It’s a delicate situation.”
Denmon said the county prosecutor’s office received several complaints from citizens last week about the case…
Why is it I suspect that “Dallas county prosecutor” is an elective office?
Meanwhile, Charles D. Ellison at The Root wonders “Where Ebola Meets Concerns Over Race, Class and the Uninsured“:
… Some observers and public health experts are beginning to wonder if there’s an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about: race and the politics of health insurance. Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas, the private medical campus where Thomas Eric Duncan is currently under care and isolation, still can’t explain exactly how medical staff let the 42-year-old Liberian national go home with useless antibiotics. Hospital officials have only said that Duncan’s travel history wasn’t “communicated,” and now mainstream media reports are stuck on everything from malfunctions in Presbyterian Hospital’s electronic record system to Duncan being dishonest about the level of his Ebola exposure when he left Liberia.
But few want to touch the pointy eggshells of race and class in the frantic discussion over Ebola as it enters the United States. Did Duncan get initially turned away because he is black and, possibly, uninsured?…
Former District of Columbia Chief Medical Officer Dr. Ivan Walks, who led the response against Washington, D.C.’s first bioterrorism attack, believes it’s a question we need to start asking. “I was stunned,” Walks tells The Root. “You could put [Duncan’s] picture in the dictionary under what you look for when responding to Ebola. How do you miss that guy?”…
EMTALA—or what Walks jokes is called the “wallet biopsy”—is the 1986 federal law that requires doctors, in any location, to provide immediate care regardless of insurance status for an “emergency medical condition.”
Still, as Patel notes, the burden of proof is on the hospital. If the patient, like Duncan, isn’t exhibiting any severe, life-threatening signs, then doctors can simply circumvent EMTALA and discharge the patient…
On the reassuring side of the equation, Atul Gawande tells the New Yorker that “The Ebola Epidemic Is Stoppable“:
… It is worth repeating what experience with twenty Ebola outbreaks over the past four decades has established. The disease has many features in our favor. Unusually, it does not make people contagious until they are actually noticeably sick, which makes screening far more effective than for other diseases. It cannot spread through the air or just by being near someone. It is spread through contact with a symptomatic person’s bodily fluids—saliva, vomit, stool, urine, even sweat. It is much harder to spread than a cold. That’s why it is primarily those who take care of the sick—health-care workers and family members—who contract the disease. Even then, it is relatively difficult to pick up.
In a 1996 case in South Africa, a patient spent twelve days in a high-level hospital sick with an illness that wasn’t recognized as Ebola until after he was discharged. Some three hundred health-care workers took care of him. None contracted the disease. A 1995 study of a Congo outbreak looked at seventy-eight household members who lived with patients with Ebola who did not directly touch them or their fluids after they became sick. Again, none contracted the disease…
For patients who need to be isolated, the requirements are not terribly fancy. You need a room with a door that can close. There’s no need for special ventilation. The door is not to keep germs from coming out but to keep people from inadvertently going in and touching the person. Medical equipment should be dedicated to just the patient. Family members or workers can enter the room if they wear a standard fluid-resistant gown, gloves, eye protection, and a face mask. If they might be exposed to the patient’s bodily fluids, they should wear double gloves, shoe covers, and leg coverings.
Experience suggests that workers should use a buddy system to make sure that protection is used safely. The main challenge is taking off the protective personal equipment—that’s when it is easiest to contaminate yourself. Hazmat suits and respirators are likely overkill, and there is concern that they are even more difficult to remove; still, many hospitals are planning to use them anyway. CNN reported on a Liberian woman who successfully protected herself through two weeks with four infected family members by carefully donning and removing a rain coat, plastic garbage bags over her legs, plastic gloves, and a mask when providing care…
Meanwhile, per the Guardian, “Health professionals in Madrid have blamed substandard equipment and a failure to follow protocol for the first case of Ebola to be contracted outside west Africa….”
BGinCHI
The right wing in America has nothing to do but fear everything.
Gosh, wonder why that is?
Edmund Dantes
I would worry on any assumption of “it can be contained because of x characteristic.”
While true, it’s only true because Ebola has yet to mutate. If it does, all this goes out the window. I understand this is the way scientists are talking to try to curtail the fear mongering, but this talk is a double edged sword.
We used to be able to say the same things about certain bacterial diseases, and now look at the list of superbugs.
Ebola is not crazy serious, but if it (or some other virulent disease does) ever mutates I think we will quickly find how unprepared our medical system is ready to cope with a pandemic disease.
max
Why is it I suspect that “Dallas county prosecutor” is an elective office?
The Dallas County DA is an elective position and it’s currently held by a black Democrat, Craig Watkins.
This is Dallas County, however, where they pioneered charging people with AIDS for crimes if they did anything (like spit on cops). So, some Highland Park type/Bush types (the apartments where the guy lived are over by Preston Hollow, home of George W – as in close, as in a mile or two away) complained about the infected Liberian guy… so Watkins’ office is covering its ass.
max
[‘They haven’t actually charged him, so…’]
Gene108
Is Ebola the first step in the inevitable zombie apocalypse?
It would be irresponsible not to speculate …
Gene108
Also, I think with this case of Ebola on our shores, we have a pretty good idea of how Medeival Europeans must have felt, when The Bubonic Plague wiped out a third of their population.
The fear of contracting an incurable affliction is just as intense now, as it was then.
Violet
Not an open thread, but wanted to say thank you to everyone who was so kind to me last week when I was in such a dark place. It has been a difficult week. I can’t really go into the details of what’s been happening, but it has been really challenging for me.
I have seen a therapist. I have talked to one understanding friend many times over the last week. Last night I finally talked with a family member. That was important and I’m so glad I did it, but it was hard. All of the conversations and people helped.
I am doing some better. I’m not suicidal (officially, according to the therapist who asked me the required questions, so yay me!), although I wouldn’t say I’m in a great place. I’m better than I was last week when all the shit happened all at once and it was like a giant black hole swallowed me up and I couldn’t even imagine light existed.
Thanks again to everyone for being so kind. It meant more than you know.
Iowa Old Lady
I admire this Dallas judge who found a place for the family to live and drove them there. He also said some humane things about immigrant children when that was the crisis du jour.
He used what he called his “faith community” to find the housing. Someone said don’t tell me what you believe. Show me what you do, and I’ll tell you what you believe. I’m an atheist but I have to say this guy is what I think of as a true follower of Jesus.
ETA: It’s good to see you, Violet.
scav
@Violet: Oh good, and on top of everything else you contribute, we could do with some good news, even if mixed good, recently so thanks.
Baud
@Violet:
Thanks for checking in. Hope things stay on a steady upswing for you.
raven
@Violet: It’s so great to hear from you! Hang tough!
skerry
In my little healthcare world, I had my first colonoscopy today. They also looked in through the other side. Input, Output.
Now I wait for lab results. Follow-up visit scheduled in a couple of weeks before I lose my cadillac COBRA health insurance at the end of the month. I will have Medicare, but am ineligible for all but the basic Medigap A since I am under 65. The Part D (prescription drugs) coverage scares me. I’m on some expensive Tier 4 meds. I’ve had more tests and screenings and procedures the past couple of months than I’ve had in years. Audiology, ENT and eye exam still to come.
My MOS surgery wound is healing nicely. My nose doesn’t look “normal” yet, but it no longer resembles the nose of a drunken Irishman (that is to say, my great-uncle Garth). I was told it could take months, up to a year, to fully resolve.
TMI?
Omnes Omnibus
@Violet: Good to hear (relatively speaking). I hope things get better for you.
Anne Laurie
@Violet: Welcome back!
Seriously — you may have some idea of how many people here were worried about you. I’m really glad you’re feeling strong enough to let us know you’re still fighting. Take care & remember there are lots of your ‘internet friends’ holding you in their thoughts…
skerry
@Violet: VIOLET!! I am so glad you came back. I’ve been worried about you (and so have lots of other people). Good on you for getting some support. It’s not easy.
raven
@skerry: They should have told you something after the procedure. I got a little oozing on my MOHS site and it’s been quite a while since they cut.
scav
@Gene108: Listening to Yale’s Open Course on Epidemics in Western Society since 1600 for sanity (yes, I’m that odd), see esp Lecture 3 – Plague (I): Pestilence as Disease if you like all those comparison details.
MattF
So, I guessed that the Dallas patient was AA. It wasn’t all that difficult and I’m not all that perceptive– you just read the narrative and you get the picture.
MomSense
@Violet:
I am so so so so happy to “see” you! We have all been hoping that you were getting support and that you would come back.
You have been very much in my thoughts.
mdblanche
I’m so not surprised the Madrid case involved failure to follow protocol. When I worked in a lab the mandatory safety course included several cautionary tales about people who should have known better doing very stupid things with substances far deadlier than Ebola. The tales usually ended grimly.
LongHairedWeirdo
Am I missing something? Are they seriously thinking of charging him with a crime for *walking out of the hospital* with a disease that’s not all that easily transmitted?
It looks like, from the story, he didn’t know he had ebola, or know that he’d been exposed. Is this where we are as a country, where a person can suggest such a thing and not be eternally humiliated as the person who even brought up the thought of charging a sick person for the crime of not knowing he was sick?
max
@Violet: I am doing some better. I’m not suicidal (officially, according to the therapist who asked me the required questions, so yay me!), although I wouldn’t say I’m in a great place. I’m better than I was last week when all the shit happened all at once and it was like a giant black hole swallowed me up and I couldn’t even imagine light existed.
Having been through and known plenty of people similar places, I’m sorry that happened to you.
Hope you get to feelin’ better.
max
[‘A real meatgrinder of a couple of weeks there it was.’]
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
Welcome back! We were all very worried, but I’m relieved to hear you’re feeling better.
There are two competing movie-watching strategies you can use to feel better: you can watch funny movies that force you to laugh (which makes you feel better all on its own) or you can watch really sad movies that let you cry and get some of the pent-up emotion out. For funny, Mel Brooks is always my go-to. If you’re too far gone to laugh at The Producers, Blazing Saddles, or Young Frankenstein, you need to get back on the phone with your therapist, stat. ;-)
For this purpose, when I say sad movies, I mean really sad. Lorenzo’s Oil sad. Brian’s Song sad. For me, this would be The Whole Wide World, with Renee Zellweger and Vincent D’Onofrio. I can’t exactly explain why that movie makes me bawl like a baby every time but, damn, it does.
brettvk
I’m a little worried about WalMart’s decision to eliminate health care coverage for part-time workers (defined as under 30hrs/week). I’m a little too close to that cutoff — and a little too old, but not old enough for Medicaid, and I make enough per hour that there might be incentive to cut my hours further. I helped a friend of my get his first medical coverage ever last year when the exchanges open. I hope I can remember how to do it if I have to join ’em myself.
Ash Can
@Violet: Very happy to see you post. Wishing you all the best.
max
@LongHairedWeirdo: Are they seriously thinking of charging him with a crime for *walking out of the hospital* with a disease that’s not all that easily transmitted?
See me @3. Probably not. But they are making noises to reassure people that if there’s something there, they’re on it. (Imagine a place where the Tea Bagger faction is populated by billionaires… and people are freaking out besides. If they actually charged him, I would be a little surprised.)
It looks like, from the story, he didn’t know he had ebola, or know that he’d been exposed.
What I heard was that the guy lied on his Liberian exit screen about having come into contact with infected people in the last 21 days.
Is this where we are as a country, where a person can suggest such a thing and not be eternally humiliated as the person who even brought up the thought of charging a sick person for the crime of not knowing he was sick?
Welcome to the United States!
max
[‘First time visitors may experience culture shock…’]
dmsilev
@Violet: Glad to see you back. Be well.
Violet
Thanks everyone. I would link personally but FYWP won’t let me include more than three links so please consider this a personal thank you to each of you.
I do have a support team in place so I think I’m going to be okay. I really did appreciate your posts and even though I didn’t have the energy to post after the initial day, I saw that people were asking after me and it meant a lot. I really appreciate it.
Elizabelle
@Violet:
Delighted to see you back. Sending good wishes your way.
brettvk
@LongHairedWeirdo: I think it’s an elaborate smokescreen to cover the standing policy of the hospital of ignoring/circumventing EMTALA, as suggested in the original post; also, the fact that Duncan is black probably increased the chances that a) he’d be treated perfunctorily at the ER and b) that he’d be blamed for the misdiagnosis and threatened with prosecution while he’s teetering on the edge of his grave. Texas must be really dreading the day that Florida disappears under rising seas.
Violet
@skerry: @raven: My dad had his Mohs surgery on his foot in late spring and his skin graft site still oozes a bit. He’s older than you guys so healing is slower. They also went pretty deep so it would take longer to heal in general. The derm surgeon says the oozing is normal and also good as its part of the healing process.
amused
@Violet: Longtime lurker, but very very happy to see you today! Been so worried!
JPL
@Violet: I’m so pleased that you checked in. Keep on healing and come back soon. We really miss you.
Amir Khalid
@Violet:
I too am glad to hear you’re okay, and on your feet fighting the black cloud. Even better to hear that you’ve got a real support team with you as well as this virtual one.
Patricia Kayden
@LongHairedWeirdo: I assume he knew he was exposed to Ebola considering that he admitted to helping a dying woman in Liberia (carrying her to a hospital, riding with her in a car, etc.). Liberian officials claim he lied at the airport as well. However, I disagree with charging him with anything. He’s fighting for his life and doesn’t need anymore stress.
Patricia Kayden
@Violet: Good to hear, Violet. Hope you continue to feel better.
RepubAnon
If the Dallas Prosecutor’s office wanted to start an Ebola pandemic in the US, filing criminal charges against folks who contract the illness is a good start – it drives people who fear they may have the disease into hiding.
Universal health care is the only way to fight pandemics. Having pools of people either too poor to afford treatment or too frightened to seek treatment means the disease can spread, and has time to mutate.
MattF
@RepubAnon: This point also holds for the Kincannon method of stopping epidemics by executing anyone who gets the disease.
JPL
@Iowa Old Lady: Your comment is apt and kudos to him.
Although, I’m not fearful about a pandemic, I’m not sure that I could find it in my heart to lend my house to his family. Maybe that means I have a little fear about how long the virus lasts on surfaces.
Patricia Kayden
@RepubAnon: Good point. You would think intelligent people would figure that out.
MaximusNYC
To some people, ebola just seems to mean “Scary Black Disease From Darkest Scary Black Africa, Carried by Scary Dark Blackity Black People.”
raven
@Violet: My buddy in Knoxville just had cancer of the foot surgery but I don’t think it was MOHS because they are going back in.
Starfish
Hospitals are not interested in taking care of patients. They are interested in profits.
I was at a clinic in a hospital where a reception was going round and round on why a non-patient married to a patient was not allowed to come in and get the damned flu shot from a nurse without scheduling a new patient visit. We live in an area with a relatively low vaccination rate that typically results in numerous cases of whooping cough every year. Everyone who wants to get a vaccine should get a vaccine, a cookie, and none of this stupid bullshit.
Origuy
The Wall Street Journal has an article on the front page today about how the Firestone Rubber farm in Liberia controlled Ebola. The online edition requires subscription; from the paper edition:
They are catching heat because their clinics have only been treating Firestone employees and family; the end of the article indicates that may be changing.
Yatsuno
@Violet: *hug*
I wasn’t able to say much, but I’m glad you’re better now.
Josie
@Violet: Oh, Violet, I am so happy to hear from you. I have been thinking about you so much. It is great that you have a supportive friend and a good therapist to help you through everything. You are so wise about health and nutrition and that should help also. I will be thinking good thoughts for you and hope that things continue to improve for you. Bless you for letting us know.
Elizabelle
Senate candidate debates tonight at 7:00 in DC area.
NBC has Virginia candidates Mark Warner and Ed Gillespie; MPT (PBS) has Maryland candidates Anthony Brown and Lawrence Hogan.
Dems leading safely in both races; Warner’s got a double-digit lead; Brown is up by 9.
John M. Burt
@Violet: Take good care.
On the topic of the thread: Since ebola is transmitted only through body fluids, it probably is in the same category as what were once called “social diseases”.
JPL
GA has debates tonight also. They are going to be streamed here with Nunn/Perdue going first.
http://www.13wmaz.com/
Fort Geek
@Violet: Glad you’re back! Here’s hoping the light gets stronger, the darkness weaker, and life gets better.
Elizabelle
Chuck Todd moderating the Virginia Senate debate. Gag.
JPL
@Elizabelle: First question to Warner.. How can you support a President who let ISIL take hold?
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
So very glad to see you back, and — far more importantly — to learn that you are in a better place than you were a few days ago. The {{{{{hugs}}}}} and white light continue to flow your way.
Welcome home, Violet!
piratedan
@Elizabelle: he’s only there to ask questions, not weigh in on the validity of any statements made by any one of the GOP persuasion….
Elizabelle
@JPL:
Yeah, you can just see it coming, can’t you?
Karen in GA
@Violet: Hi Violet! Very glad and relieved to see you back!
I’m glad you have someone to talk to, and that you’re… well, if not in a good place, at least not in as bad a place as you could have been. Hopefully you can see the good place from where you are, and you’ll be there soon.
Gravenstone
I don’t know about social, but I’m betting it’s an industrial disease.
Elizabelle
my drinking game might be “Obama-Warner policies”, although it’s just been said once at this time.
Oh, second mention.
Three.
Deecarda
@Starfish:
I’m an office manager in a family practice. A patient has to be established to obtain care, it’s a risk management issue. I just refer patients not willing to get established to a local pharmacy, there are many administering flu shots including most Walgreens.
raven
@Gravenstone: Someone threw a spanner, they threw it in the hole. . .
Cermet
@Edmund Dantes: Plllleeeaaassseeee – what hogwash; mutates! REally?! Yeah, and all virus can and …. wait for it … do in fact mutate all the time and so what. We are all still alive and well, and far more often than not, the mutation helps the victum.
Get real; the odds of so many other terrible things happening are more of a worry, but everyone is now worried about this minor (still) illness? Please. SARS was far more dangerous but few worried about that and it is still “out there”. So stop pissing your pants about Ebola and worry about climate change and the lost of cheap oil being replaced by deep sea and tar sands. Worry about corporate greed and the police state due to people pissing their pants over non-existing dangers from third world loons. Get a fucking grip. Worse and most dangerous of all, the damn BJ comment engine has grammar police built in! It must make the NSA job easier!!!
Elizabelle
Warner’s just won the debate, as far as I’m concerned, and we got 55 minutes to go. Brings up importance of Americans getting a fair shot, that he’s been governor with 2:1 GOP-Dem legislature and can work across the aisle.
Against partisan warriors in either party. (Sigh)
Elizabelle
Gillespie’s first question is on gay marriage. He notes his (Catholic) faith, and says marriage should be a state’s rights issue.
Yeah. Like we in Virginia are noted for “Loving vs. Virginia” (overturned miscegenation rules; allowed interracial marriages).
Swift answer, Mr. Gillespie.
Another Holocene Human
@Violet: So glad to hear you are doing better. {{{hugs}}}
Cermet
And Violet, happy you are doing better and frankly, the world IS getting better despite what all the corporate news nuts keep saying otherwise; their masters are just teying to get all of us to vote against our own interest. Hang in there – the future is and will continue to improve. (OK, I lied about the grammar police being bad – I kinda like it.)
cckids
@Violet: Its very good to hear from you. I’m glad you are getting some help & are in a somewhat better place. Your kind heart shows here, I’m hoping you have someone like you in your life to help.
Bobby Thomson
@Violet: Good. Glad to hear it.
Another Holocene Human
@mdblanche: There was a good one I heard, true story, husband and wife worked in a lab and were putting their food in the “NO FOOD” fridge cause I guess they were special and didn’t want to traipse over to the food fridge. We-ye-ell it turned out there was Mercury (Hg) stored in the NO FOOD THIS MEANS YOU fridge and it was slowly contaminating their lunches every day (it was leaking but I don’t know if that means kinda dripping down or an aerosol thing) and they were ingesting Mercury contaminated food and gave themselves Mercury poisoning. I don’t think they died but they defs got busted for using the NO FOOD fridge, heaven knows what other corners they were cutting in there. You get hella sick and it’s really hard to get that stuff out of your body, though, even if you don’t die.
Keith G
I think officials in Dallas make mistakes. I also think the Mr. Duncan made a mistake by not choosing to say , “I am sick. I was in close contact with a person who was suffering from what I think was Ebola.” He had more than one chance to say that and he chose not to. That is on him.
Prosecuting him (if grounds exist) might well have bad unintended consequences. Yes, It will highlight the error of his actions, but it might just as well drive any other future person in his situation further “under ground”.
SatanicPanic
@Violet: Thanks for chiming in, I was nervous, hope things improve
Elizabelle
@Cermet:
That’s exactly right.
Another Holocene Human
@LongHairedWeirdo: HIV redux, remember all kinds of icky people — “Haitians!” — were blamed for spreading the disease. He’s a Black immigrant who lives in an impoverished community so talk about 1980s flashbacks.
Some of the same stupid narratives about where the disease comes from (bush meat, sex with monkeys) cropping up as well even though it looks like the culprit is fruit bats. You know, like how most Americans contract rabies, contact with a raccoon or rabid feral dog, saw someone mention yesterday untreated rabies has a zero survival rate. A lot scarier and much more zombie apocalypse than Ebola. Must be that furrin factor. Get that xenophobic buzzer warmed up and let the freak flag flap in the breeze. To war! To war!
Another Holocene Human
@brettvk:
The website is worlds better and easier to use than last year.
Fuck the Waltons and the horse they rode in on.
Pogonip
@Violet: I missed all that, but I am glad things are looking up for you. What happened with the dog that bit you?
Another Holocene Human
@JPL:
“When did you stop beating your wife?”
Let’s see, how many things are wrong with this question that is a smear within a question?
Typical authoritarian bullshit. “So, Lynne Cheney, why did you let your daughter become a Lesbian?”
cckids
@Cermet:
No lie. That Enterovirus D 68 is some scary shit. Transmitted like & presents like a cold, in a month it has gone from being in 5 (I believe) states to 33 as of this weekend. Over 3000 cases so far.
A New Jersey boy showing no symptoms died in his sleep from it. Some kids are showing symptoms of paralysis after contracting it. And yet, there are 50 OMG EBOLA stories for each story about this.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human:
Even Zeb?
Pogonip
I have often thought that the only way to get a sensible medical system in the U. S. would be for an employee in an expensive D. C. restaurant to come down with an ugly disease and infect a number of Congressmen, their kids, and their mistresses and boyfriends. I don’t think Ebola is the solution because people in the infectious stage are too sick to get under the radar. Even Anthony Bourdain would send home a waiter who was weeping blood. My money’s on the earlier stages of drug-resistant TB.
Randy P
So I guess I’m going to jail. Got a (recorded) call from 909-666-7791 from “Internal Revenue Service Agent Jessica Roland” (for some reason Agent Roland has a strong Indian accent) who is going to “show up at my house with an arrest warrant, with law enforcement officials from my town and my state” within hours if I do not call the above number. Hung up on round 3 of the recorded threat. They called back a couple of times but I didn’t bother answering.
This one is new to me, but apparently it’s been out there a while.
http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-909-666-7791
Deecarda
I’m in NC, Hagan & Tillis debate on now, Stephanopalous moderating.
Eric U.
@Iowa Old Lady: we have religious types hanging out at our street corners trying to hand out materials. I guess it’s an effort to save their souls. If distributing literature is all it takes to get into your heaven, you are worshiping the wrong god. Think of the good works that could be done with the money the Gideons waste on books, not to mention the trees.
@Randy P:I’ve been waiting to try out my ability to curse in Hindi/Bengali on someone. Seems like an opportunity.
Steeplejack
@Violet:
So good to hear from you, Violet. I hope things get better for you, and I will continue to send you healing thoughts.
Deecarda
Tillis on jobs “government needs to get out of the way … government kills jobs” blah, blah, blah” GOP needs some new bumper sticker tropes.
drkrick
@Violet: Very, very happy to hear from you. I know the neighborhood, glad to hear you’re walking on out.
Elie
@Violet: You were missed, Violet… glad you are working it through… praise be. You have my good wishes and positive ju ju sent your way…
Cermet
@cckids: But do realize that unlike SARS, the vast majority of people who get Enterovirus D 68 either come down with a minor flu -like illness that is over in a day or so, or no illness at all (the common flu kills close to 20000 a year). But when millions are exposed, some tragically have the wrong genes … still, the more we expand into virgin areas and change our environment, the more likely viruses can get into the general population; again, the vast majority are harmless to minor so I really don’t stay up worrying about this issue. Bird flu and SARS are scary and highly dangerous but I am optimistic we may be past the most dangerous cycle in those viruses and have “dodged those bullets – maybe.
Elizabelle
@Deecarda:
Yeah, in Virginia Gillespie’s been sharing Obamacare horror stories. Dat government …
Elie
@Pogonip:
Unfortunately, Congressmen already have good system of care… they just don’t want US to have it… their coverage is supremo..
SWMBO
@Violet: Bless you and keep you. It’s so good to see you back. I hope there is light for you now and always.
Frankensteinbeck
@Another Holocene Human:
‘I wasn’t aware I voted for George Bush.’
aimai
@Gene108: Not really. Most people do not have the previous experience of having lost most of their children as babies, or having seen entire families wiped out by war and pestilience already. The kind of hysteria we are seeing is quite experience-distant and not that different from the other fake hysterias of the “shark attacks” or earthquake or poisoned tylenol scares which periodically affect people.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Gravenstone: The cure for Industrial Disease is Heavy Fuel.
Elie
BTW- Mr Duncan in Dallas is on renal dialysis and full ventilator support.
Doesn’t sound encouraging but I still hope the best for him.
Ebola is our mark of Cain… we are stained with the consequence of the environmental degredation and economic and social disparaties that set this up. Mother Nature jes don care about our bullshit. Nope.
Woodrowfan
@Violet: thanks for the update. :)
LongHairedWeirdo
@Patricia Kayden: The links I chased down said he did help a convulsing woman to the hospital, but there’s no evidence he knew she had ebola. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t take him at his word.
The bit about leaving the hospital – @max: I see your comment, but I still have to wonder about the language they’re using. Maybe you have to use that kind of language – but I don’t have to like it.
cckids
@Cermet: Yes, I realize. I was commenting more on the ridiculous level of attention the media is currently paying to Ebola in America vs the Enterovirus D68, which is infecting many more people & having some scary offshoot effects.
Not that I want them to start scare-mongering about E D68, but at least numerically it is a more likely target.
Deecarda
Ha! Tillis wants to know how much time Kay missed on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Kay tells him she is on the Armed Forces Committee.
Iowa Old Lady
@Randy P: We’ll bake you a cake with a saw.
skerry
@raven: I haven’t had any oozing. It’s raised and a little lumpy along the scar line. They said it should smooth out over time.
They took some biopsies from today’s procedure and removed 1 polyp. I’ll find out the results of the biopsies in a few weeks.
WereBear
@Violet: Thanks so much for letting us know!
I’ve been so worried >w<
Very glad you are getting the help you need. And so smart of you to seek it!
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
Maybe, but intelligence is a small part of our brain that has trouble keeping control over our animal instincts in the best of times. Panic- or any strong emotion, really- tends to suppress our analytical brain and let the animal take over.
OzarkHillbilly
@max: This is also the same DA who has headed up a review of every death row case they have on file to make absolutely certain sure they got the right guy, and not just some guy.
From what I heard, the man in question did help transport a very sick person to an Ebola center where they refused to accept her. She died app 8-12 hrs later. How was he to know what she died from?
mb
“EMTALA—or what Walks jokes is called the “wallet biopsy”—is the 1986 federal law that requires doctors..”.
EMTALA is not the “wallet biopsy” it forbids a “wallet biopsy”.
Violet
Thanks again, everyone. You are all so kind–really so nice to see all your comments. Nice to be thought of and missed.
This was just a weird confluence of events that hit suddenly, although not completely unexpectedly, and I just wasn’t prepared. I suppose my reserves are thin after caring for my parents and others over the last year or so and maybe it’s a lesson that I need to take better care of myself.
@Pogonip: As for the dog that bit me, that took about a month to heal but the dog was a cared for dog and had all its shots so I didn’t need to have any medical treatment. The people improved the fence so it can’t hurt anyone else and the dog is still with its owners. The best outcome under the circumstances. My leg sure hurt for a few weeks though.
raven
@skerry: My little ooze is at the bottom of the scar line on my cheek.
Howard Beale IV
@cckids: The real problem with ED68 is being a relative to polio is that it can cause paralysis.
Mnemosyne
@skerry:
Hopefully you’ll have the same results I did, which were that I was totally clean (so to speak) on the “exit” side and had a little reflux damage on the “enter” side. I’ve been trying to limit my FODMAPs for the past week or so and MAN does it suck, but it does seem to be helping my IBS/digestive issues.
(It sucks because it’s basically No Prepared Foods. At All. So I have to make everything from scratch, and I am just not that organized.)
Joel
@Edmund Dantes: HIV has been around for a long time, in a huge number of human hosts, and it has yet to gain new modes of transmission.
That said, ebola is certainly communicable. The small R0 is probably due to the fact that victims are only contagious when very sick, and die shortly thereafter. Liquid droplets are how norovirus gets around, and that shit can get around in a hurry.
Violet
@skerry: If it’s any comfort, my dad’s Mohs scar line was raised and lumpy along the edges. He had a skin graft so I don’t know if that’s similar to yours. The wound site has gradually been shrinking toward the middle. The part that was raised and lumpy before isn’t now. The derm surgeon was worried for a bit about that part but we left it a few weeks and by the next visit it was fine.
Joel
@Gene108: You don’t even have to go back that far. There are people alive today who witnessed the spanish influenza outbreak. Not many, though.
Roger Moore
@Another Holocene Human:
You really have to teach people about that one when they’re still young and impressionable. I got taught about never mixing food and lab when I was still in high school, and it really stuck. I would never think about keeping my food in a lab fridge, not because I have a fear of contamination but because it just seems yucky. I guess it helps that I have an under-counter fridge in my non-lab office, which greatly reduces the temptation.
JPL
I missed most of the Nunn/Perdue debate because life got in the way. Since Perdue believes in outsourcing cuz regulations and all, it’s a winnable race . One ad on yes regulations prevent children from stuffing pillows because they belong in schools would do him in. One ad that we believe in paying a living wage rather than paying 50 cents an hour and living in shacks would do him in.
raven
@Violet: I was hopin for a more dramatic scar than I’m gettin!
jl
Maybe Ebola reveals some social disease in the U.S.
Certainly reveals some social disease on CNN, Fox and Rush.
If the patient was either deliberately given substandard treatment or sloppy treatment initially, that would not surprise me. Poor patients coming in ER, regardless of race or ethnicity are suspected of malingering, or just coming in to get food, or dumped by their families who do not want to or cannot deal with them. I have heard that attitude expressed directly by ER attendings, nurses, residents and students.
On other hand, the report I read that doctor and nurse electronic medical records were not automatically merged, and Ebola suspicion would not occur unless both looked at both, so either doc or nurse could easily have missed the other information flow. That does not surprise me since I went to lecture on electronic medical records in U.S. and relationship to medical errors last week. I had no idea how awful lousy miserably out of date the U.S. was until very recently. And now awful initial implementations were in U.S., which was bad because bad implementation of EMRs can produce as many medical errrors as they prevent.
Also was emphasized in lecture that the first president to really make big push towards any, and also adequate implementation of electronic records was one Great Liberal Satan, George W Bush. I don’t think the lecturer had a partisan ax to grind, was quite neutral in covering Dub and Obama policies. Maybe just wanted to give some history, or wanted to not have to deal with possible wingnut lunacy from audience. Or, something.
Howard Beale IV
@Randy P: That’s the nice things about having a Pebble smartwatch-when my phone rings, if it shows me a phone number vs.a name from my directory, I just press the X on my watch and away it goes.
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
Maybe we could get Yutsano to talk to this person about his IRS file…
Howard Beale IV
@skerry:
Be aware: though a clean colonoscopy is supposed to covered 100% under ACA, the fact that they clipped a polyp means that now becomes a surgical procedure-which means (yep) – co-pays and deductibles…..
SiubhanDuinne
Anybody see the GA Senate debate? I found I can’t toggle from the debate streaming site to any other window, and am about to watch Carter-Deal. I thought Michelle did okay, not fantastic, but no worse than Perdue. Was pissed that the few times the cameras were on the crowd, it was all David Perdue signs. I hope in the next couple of debates Michelle will come out blazing and just flat-out calling Perdue on his lies. She is too nice, and as we all know, nice guys finish last.
Also, in answer to too many questions, she basically positioned herself as a Republican. Come ON, Michelle. Own your damn party.
skerry
@Violet: They said the raised/lumpy parts should go down but it will take months. At this point, I’m hoping that it looks fine or can be disguised with makeup for my daughter’s wedding next Summer. It is helpful to hear others’ experiences.
Patricia Kayden
@JPL: Don’t give Chucky any ideas.
burnspbesq
@Randy P:
It’s a phishing scam. There’s is an IRS office in Riverside, but it’s exam and criminal investigation, not collection.
raven
@skerry: My colleague had her nose done 4 years ago and you cannot tell anything ever happened.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: I missed most of it… I was hoping she would nail him on outsourcing because they outsourced for fifty cent wages and child labor. I guess she didn’t. Yes we regulations against that. The President has created more jobs than St. Reagan also. I get frustrated because they run away from the facts.
skerry
@Howard Beale IV: Great. Didn’t know that. Oh well, add it to the list. My deductible for the year has been met, but copays, etc still apply.
@Mnemosyne: I’ve heard about that diet, but need to educate myself on it. Are you going it alone or is a dietician helping?
Gene108
@mb:
When EMTALA was signed into law, by President Reagan, I believe 22 states allowed hospitals to turn people away based on their ability to pay.
Reagan ran rough-shod over their states rights with this sweeping Federal law.
**********************
Violet, glad you are doing better. Be patient with yourself. Recovery takes time.
*********************
@skerry:
Hope your results come back positive / negative depending on what is the better option.
JPL
@raven: Stream Carter/Deal.. http://www.13wmaz.com
I have a good feeling about this one.
raven
@JPL: Thanks
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Yup, exactly. She just needs to nail him on his history and his lies. She got in a couple of zingers but they were early and I fear they won’t be the takeaway moments.
BruceFromOhio
@raven: One of Knopflers early efforts was named Brewers Droop.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: They outsourced because our regulations want children in schools rather than factories.
also. .one comment yes david our children cannot work in factories. ugh
raven
@BruceFromOhio: I like him and the Sweetheart of the Rodeo.
Bill Arnold
@Joel:
It also has an extremely high mutation rate (and evolves within an infected person). Still no new modes of transmission.
BruceFromOhio
@BillinGlendaleCA: Heavy fuel powers the Planet of New Orleans.
raven
@JPL: That’s it for me, Jason is as conservative as anyone in the state.
JPL
@raven: okay I might have wrong about the debate.
Mnemosyne
@skerry:
It was recommended by a dietician (I check in with her later this week) but she wasn’t much help as far as helping me come up with menus or anything. (That’s what I get for using the freebie dietician through work.) This book has a lot of really good information and I spent $7.99 for the Monash University app for my iPhone. Monash U is doing the majority of the current research so they’re constantly updating their database.
raven
@JPL: I’ll vote for him but I’m not interested in that bullshit.
peggy
@skerry: If you have a serious cancer, the doc will know and will tell you by the time you get your clothes back on. (I speak from experience; luckily I’m all better now.) So don’t stress over the biopsies except for the possible monetary surprise that Howard mentioned.
hamletta
@Roger Moore: It’s a scam. My stepdad got the same call a couple of weeks ago. He believed them at first because the IRS can’t find his past couple of returns.
He went as far as withdrawing the cash, then turned around and redeposited it. But he still went to the Safeway like the crooks told him to, where the guy at the customer service counter confirmed it was a scam.
Iowa Old Lady
I just got another robocall, this one from Chuck Grassley, saying the Rs are going to send me a vote-by-mail application. I already voted! And since I’m a registered D, it wasn’t for you guys.
max
@OzarkHillbilly: This is also the same DA who has headed up a review of every death row case they have on file to make absolutely certain sure they got the right guy, and not just some guy.
Sure. I helped vote him in, over the Republican, in 2006! (For that matter, I am quite familiar with the apartment complex where the guy was staying from walking past it, back in the 90’s.) He’s been pretty good, but this is still Dallas County and it’s still the DA’s office and Dallas is having a freak out about this apparently.
From what I heard, the man in question did help transport a very sick person to an Ebola center where they refused to accept her. She died app 8-12 hrs later. How was he to know what she died from?
Dunno. Probably not gonna matter since the guy is probably going to die, from the sound of it.
max
[‘There will be someone else who gets here and is infected soon enough. And then there will be a freak out about that.’]
Roger Moore
@hamletta:
I know it’s a scam. I just figured that since we have a regular around here who actually works for the IRS, we could get a genuine IRS person to call up the scammers and give them a scare.
schrodinger's cat
@Violet: Welcome back! {{{{{Violet}}}}
Felanius Kootea
@Violet: Good to see you back Violet. Hang in there.
satby
@Violet: so very glad to hear from you Violet, we were all concerned. Hang in there…
Felanius Kootea
@OzarkHillbilly: I have heard that her family told people that she was having a miscarriage (she was very heavily pregnant). They might have felt that this was the only way to get people to help them (people aren’t exactly falling all over themselves to help non-relatives with Ebola in the affected West African countries). There is a possibility that Duncan didn’t know she had Ebola. I know it sounds implausible but there it is.
skerry
@peggy: Sorry you know this from first-hand experience, but glad you are ok now.
Gravenstone
@Another Holocene Human: Mercury ha a very high vapor pressure (meaning a lot of vapor will enter the air at a given temperature). First I’ve heard of it being stored at refrigerator temps though. Usually it’s store at room temp.At refrigerator temps, this vapor should be less. But you still don’t want to fuck with mercury. It’s hell on nerves (the term “mad as a hatter” referred to milliners who would wet their fingers in their mouths while handling mercury impregnated felt during the hat making process. Thus, seriously poisoning themselves.
Of course, I’m just old enough to have been able to play with the stuff in high school. Pouring it out onto bench tops and rolling it around with our hands. I’d be surprised if that old lab didn’t need a LOT of remediation before they tear the old school down in the coming year.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Forget it, Jake. It’s Georgia.
Roger Moore
@Gravenstone:
It could also be from some kind of organomercury compound, which would have a much higher vapor pressure than metallic mercury and thus need to be kept in the fridge. Organic mercury compounds are also much more easily absorbed than the metal, which makes them much more dangerous.
pseudonymous in nc
Most countries start with public health as a foundation and build a healthcare system on top of that. The Best Healthcare In The World® doesn’t do that. And this Reuters piece talks a lot about what that means.
“Take some antibiotics and go home” is the system working exactly as designed. (And I bet there was some ‘Africa is a country’ in the communications breakdown as well.)
Ruckus
@Violet:
Glad to hear you are better and getting help. Hope things continue in a positive fashion. You need an electronic shoulder, there are plenty around here. A lot of whom seem to have been in that dark place once or twice.
Once again, good to hear from you.
Anne Laurie
@Another Holocene Human:
Agree about the 80s HIV flashbacks!
But to be scrupulously accurate, fruit bats are “bush meat” — forest degradation has driven them much closer to villages, and they’re easy pickings (unskilled hunters can knock them out of the trees where they’re roosting). Even before this year’s outbreak, epidemiologists suspected fruit bat consumption (and human consumption of fruits contaminated by fruit bats) as an strong possibility for the source of Ebola, because bats had been implicated in other forms of hemorraghic virus transmission.
Also, oddly enough, the CDC says that most Americans who are exposed to rabies get it from bats… although “our” bats aren’t very closely related to fruit bats, IIRC.
Ruckus
@max:
‘
First time vNormal citizens and visitors may experience culture shock…’Fix for you.
Pogonip
@Elie: yes, but drug-resistant TB can’t be treated, only sort-of controlled for a while. And they can catch it from the waiter, the mistress’s maid, the boyfriend’s masseur…
suzanne
@Violet: Hugs to you, lady. I’ve been concerned for you and I’m glad that you are coping.
Yatsuno
@Randy P: http://www.tigta.gov has a reporting form. A very nice agent will give you a call within 24-48 hours & interview you. They’re going to ask you a bunch of questions about the call. It’s a known issue & I’m tired of dealing with them.
Anyone else who knows someone who dealt with this, please pass this on to them.
Gex
@Violet: I missed all the hubbub but was concerned when everyone was looking for you. Very glad to see you back, feeling well enough to let us know you’re here. Hope things continue to improve for you. Lots of hugs, Gex
mdblanche
@Another Holocene Human: The PI of the lab I was in put a sign on a microwave listing the carcinogenic chemicals mixed in there that made it unsafe for food and beverages. Nobody ever used it for that… except the PI!
@Iowa Old Lady: I see GOP GOTV still hasn’t caught up to where OFA was in 2012.
burnspbesq
@Yatsuno:
And if they catch these people, DOJ will fuck them up good and proper. I know most of the lawyers in the tax shop in the U.S. Attorney’s office in Los Angeles, and they are very good at what they do. Stopping these scams is a major priority for both IRS and DOJ. And if they happened to violate California law in Los Angeles County in the process, my friend and law school classmate Jackie Lacey, the L.A. County DA, will be more than happy to pile on.
rikyrah
@Violet:
I am so happy to see a post from you. Know that you are in not only my prayers, but a lot of positive thoughts from many people on this blog.
Starfish
@Deecarda: Why is less risky for a Walgreens to give a flu shot than it is for a practice that exists within a hospital?
Another Holocene Human
@Roger Moore: Yoiks! Your supposition sounds very plausible.
I was defs too young to play with Hg metal in my hands (not terribly risky in and of itself, but kinda dumb anyway). But I did do some hazardous materials labeling at a school that will rename unnamed where I found some OMG SERIOUS HUMAN CARCINOGEN in some vials in the back of a cabinet. That was scary. Also at another school which will remain unnamed where I did inventory and found some metal like K or P (ETA: or Na, but probably not–anyway, I don’t remember) in a liquid … in a jar … I was shaking like a leaf. Prefer my interactions with such O2 lovers to be in the form of Youtube videos only.
@mdblanche: Hubris.
Both grandparents (chemist and chemical engineer) dying of cancer and/or complications thereof was one of the main reasons I didn’t go into chemistry. Though somehow I ended up doing lab work with nasty substances and doing inventory on extremely toxic/dangerous stuff TWICE. God I was a dumb kid.
g
@Edmund Dantes: i
Oh for fuckssake! This isn’t a fricking movie. Put on your big boy panties and climb off the ledge.
Ebola’s been around for a long time and its transmission methods haven’t changed during all that time. It’s not even clear to me how common mutations are in these organisms – have you done a study? Talked to someone who’s studied it?
If there were to be a mutation, it likely wouldn’t be some dramatic, instantaneous shift to a completely different method of transmission. This isn’t a sci-fi flick.
Throwaway
Yes, Anne, I’m sure this is all about race. So was SARS, the only reason we let so many people die is because they’re Asian. And MERS, to keep down those ay-rabs. Pretty much every disease that’s not tennis elbow was specifically designed by the White Man to keep every other race down.
John M. Burt
@Eric U.: The Gideons are doing a valuable service by ensuring that plenty of carbon gets sequestered in books — better yet, in Bibles which will go a long time before they are destroyed.