• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Let’s finish the job.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

This blog will pay for itself.

No one could have predicted…

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Mobile Menu

  • Winnable House Races
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Balloon Juice 2023 Pet Calendar (coming soon)
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • War in Ukraine
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • 2021-22 Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Open Threads / Referee thoughts

Referee thoughts

by David Anderson|  October 20, 20148:21 am| 27 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Sports

FacebookTweetEmail

Referee Thoughts

  • Great preventative preventive refereeing in the New Englands vs. New York Jets game last week. Officials for almost all sports are there to facilitate a safe and fair game according to the rules of competition. Most officials would like to do with the minimal needed involvement. Different sports have different definitions and prioritization of safety versus faireness, but that is the goal — safe and fair. In this situation, a quiet word moved a New England linebacker to a safe position before the play. Good teams want the referees to keep their guys healthy even if it minimizes foul count.
  • Entering the knock-out portion of the season. I love doing these games as there are hundreds or thousands of fans for some of the high school games, and hundreds of fans for the college games, and the players are going hard. I hate doing these games because the incentive structure changes dramatically when there is a two goal differential with thirty minutes left. In the regular season, two goals is a high hill and coaches will want to preserve their players for the next game. There is no next game, so two goals means the team that is behind goes to high variance, high risk, high contact strategies. Yesterday I had three red cards in the last thirty minutes for two hideous challenges and a coach losing his head. No coach, it was not my AR’s fault that #17 can’t run the fucking offside trap as he is two steps behind his center back and Magenta has been pounded the ball down #17’s side… it is your fault for either having him out there OR trying to trap with him out there as you’ve seen him for 25 games this season….You should know better
  • The toughest player to referee within 100 miles of my house is a 36 year old guy playing in a men’s league. He is a reasonably skilled player but a complete and utter asshole. There are some guys who are assholes on the field, but are super nice off the field, he is not one of them. He gives off the asshole vibe where if he gets within 15 feet of a group of people, they tense up. Five or six years ago, he could not control his behavior, so he was almost guaranteed a caution within the first twenty minutes of a game. Now he has just enough control where he can irritate, instigate and annoy at a level which any one act is not worth a foul, any one act is not worth a caution, but he tilts the game and makes it ugly. Most of it is that he plays at a level of physicality and aggression that is half a step above where the rest of the league wants to play, but it is not illegal most of the time. The rest of his schtick is having absolutely no self-awareness as to why the referee is trying to manage him. I was being assessed on one of his games on Saturday, and my assessor and I had no good way of working with or around him to make the game flow.
  • I learned a new phrase for diving/flopping last week — “horny lesbian” applied in a Men’s D-2 college game for the amount of grass a particular player was eating…. I was AR-2 and did not hear the expression but saw the center give the red card and then saw her turn to me as she tried to stifle a laugh. I could not contain myself in the lockerroom when I heard the entire story.
  • Things that I have learned this week from coaches and experts:  I can not give a red on a player’s first foul of the game. I can not give a yellow on the first foul of the game.  A yellow is mandatory for the first foul of the game.  I am obligated in NCAA play to give extra time to accomdate injuries (we stop the very visible clock instead), the epitome of tactical soccer for 10 year olds is to kick it really hard and let Johnny and Jose chase it down, working U-12 girls that can play intelligent tactical soccer is amazingly refreshing, a player that is 10 yards offside and 30 yards from the ball requires me to pop my flag.

Open thread until I write a post on integrated payer provider models.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Monday Morning Open Thread: Whatever It Takes
Next Post: Not gonna do it and you can’t make me »

Reader Interactions

27Comments

  1. 1.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    October 20, 2014 at 8:24 am

    (Your first linky is mangled, Richard.)

    A non-Ebola thread? What’s the world coming to?

    :-)

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  2. 2.

    Big R

    October 20, 2014 at 8:34 am

    Curious: which sport has officials who don’t want to ensure a safe and fair game?

  3. 3.

    Edmund Dantes

    October 20, 2014 at 8:36 am

    Also of note until he’s a yard off the los he is allowed to be there. It’s not a foul until then.

    You can also tell he’s trying to make the line call and wasn’t fully aware of where he was. The ref did right in reminding him you’re about to be in trouble if the ball gets snapped and you get closer.

  4. 4.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 8:49 am

    @Big R: WWE?

  5. 5.

    SRW1

    October 20, 2014 at 8:57 am

    @Big R:

    I hear that the ‘game’ in the ‘sport’ or wrestling is sometimes rigged, but really only on rare occasions. As I don’t watch that ‘sport’ I’m in no position to really judge that, though.

  6. 6.

    NotMax

    October 20, 2014 at 9:02 am

    Grammatical pet peeve button activated.

    Great preventative refereeing

    Which is fine and dandy if one is trying to preventate something, one supposes. Otherwise, the word is “preventive.”

    /grouchy editor

  7. 7.

    SRW1

    October 20, 2014 at 9:15 am

    … the epitome of tactical soccer for 10 year olds is to kick it really hard and let Johnny and Jose chase it down, …

    I wonder if you’d ever gotten into refing during the 1970s and 1980s. Because that was the dominant style of play at that time in many adult amateur teams, at least at the local or county level. Godawful boring to watch. Which is why I ended up playing handball and volleyball.

  8. 8.

    jake the antisoshul soshulist

    October 20, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Richard, I know nothing about soccer refereeing. I was not at this game and do not know if the referees called anything.
    Would this be given a yellow card, a warning, or just play on.
    This was a post season district final (non elimination, both finalists advance to the regional) game.
    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bgdailynews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/02/f0237996-45f1-5570-b494-585b4e1ce4f8/54409b6c9cfdb.image.jpg?resize=300%2C222

  9. 9.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 9:32 am

    @jake the antisoshul soshulist: I would need to be at the game to have a definate opinion… but looking soley at the picture, I don’t think it is red for either player.

    Depending on the game itself (atmosphere/intensity of previous play, and history between the two players) I have either a double foul with a dropped ball, a foul on black and a double ass-chewing, or a foul on black and a double caution… That type of shirt pull strongly indicates to me that black initiated the fouling contact and white was trying to turn the corner and caught the headband, but I don’t know. If I’m not trying to man manage, I’m going double caution.

  10. 10.

    Amir Khalid

    October 20, 2014 at 9:56 am

    @Richard Mayhew:
    Hmm … This looks like six of one and half-a-dozen of the other to me. I’d go with your first option: a yellow card each and restart with a drop-ball. By the way, the player in white appears to be without shinpads, which I thought had been mandatory since the 1980s.

  11. 11.

    Amir Khalid

    October 20, 2014 at 10:20 am

    @Big R:
    Professional wrestling, I guess. But then that’s really a vaudeville entertainment dressed up as sports, where referees are just bit players.

  12. 12.

    MobiusKlein

    October 20, 2014 at 10:51 am

    For GK getting kicked while ball is in possession, how often is it called?
    I ask, because my daughter is a U13 Goalie in a travel team, generally gets at least one contact from other team. Once kicked in ribs and had to come out, but no card was given. (I think she had the ball by then, but could have been close)

    I don’t expect no contact, but wonder how much is typical, and when would it be worth asking the refs about it (after match is over, naturally)

  13. 13.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 11:01 am

    @Amir Khalid: I think I am seeing a thin pad line on white — I am assuming that if this is a play-off game, the refs would have been on their toes for the easy to catch pre-game crap.

  14. 14.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 11:06 am

    @MobiusKlein:

    1) Unless you have a good relationship with the referee before the game and that relationship is external to the game, there are very few good things that can come out of a conversation with a referee and a parent after the game. This is especially true if the referee is a teenager — they don’t have the tools to deal well with a conversation where there is significant implied power imbalances. I’ll handle a polite, reasonable question in the parking lot, but I can go back on my age, my professional experience and the fact that I’ve been reffing for almost half my life. Be very careful. If you have a significant question, either go through the coach, or go through the referee assignor.

    2) Keepers are hard to protect well as pretty much everything they do puts themselves into defenseless positions while aggressively challenging for the ball. If the challenge is fair (ie the ball, the keeper and the attacker all arrive at the same point of space at the same time), and the keeper has a chance to both play the ball and protect herself, a lot of contact will be allowed. If any of those conditions are violated, then there probably should be a whistle to protect the keeper.

  15. 15.

    daveNYC

    October 20, 2014 at 11:21 am

    @Richard Mayhew: On #2 there; I’m kind of surprised that you’re saying that keepers are hard to protect. In the WC games this summer I didn’t see many keepers getting banged around, and from my distant HS memories I remember keepers getting a lot of protection.

    Has this changed, or is this something that varies based on the level?

  16. 16.

    MobiusKlein

    October 20, 2014 at 11:52 am

    @Richard Mayhew:
    Fair enough to ask spectators not to harass or even seem to potentially pester officials, especially younger ones. I’m not one of those parents yelling at officials from the sidelines. More of the groaning ‘that was offsides?’ kind (mea culpa).
    I do feel a bit more concern when injury is a distinct possibility though. Perhaps the best person to ask is her coach.

    I will note no actions I’ve witnessed seemed to be intentional attacks, but attempts to play the ball.

  17. 17.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    @daveNYC: By hard to protect is when there is a legitimate 50-50 ball in a scrum — where is the line between an honest challenge that did not endanger the safety of the keeper and an unfair challenge. The keeper due to her positional requirements is expected to get into the middle of the scrum and more importantly do so in a manner that leaves her defenseless most of the time. It is a very fuzzy line of where exactly the foul exists as contact can be legal if it is a fair play on the ball and the keeper is not in an inherently dangerous or defenseless position.

    At higher levels, it gets easier as the players have much better body control AND much better visualization of the field and positioning — most attackers will pull up or around if they can’t get there in time for a fair challenge on the ball. At the college level, bad challenges on keepers are assumed to be intentional, and almost always assumed to be reckless (which means cautionable). At lower levels, intentionality gets a whole lot fuzzier, especially if/when the keeper has no clue where s/he should be to play the ball.

  18. 18.

    JR in WV

    October 20, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    Richard,

    Is there something I’m not seeing in these two sentences to make them not be exclusive?

    ” I can not give a yellow on the first foul of the game. A yellow is mandatory for the first foul of the game. ”

    I mean, how does this work – either it is mandatory, or it can’t be done, both can’t be happening. Or is that your point, that the rule is weird?

  19. 19.

    Trollhattan

    October 20, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    @JR in WV: Believe he’s compiling unsolicited Super-Duper Technical Advice he’s receiving, at no charge, from coaches.

  20. 20.

    Trollhattan

    October 20, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    @jake the antisoshul soshulist:
    I love that pic. Shot my kid’s match yesterday and going through the photos found one with a girl appearing to give another’s crotch a backhand fist. U13s, FWIW.

    It was a very chippy match, the visiting team parents were so mouthy the ref cautioned their coach, and our girls earned a rare win. What made it a perfect day was knowing they still faced a two-hour bile-consuming drive while we were five minutes from home.

  21. 21.

    Amir Khalid

    October 20, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    @JR in WV:
    I think Richard is surprised to hear these statements from those entrusted to give match officials guidance on refereeing. They are all plainly wrong.

    I can not give a red on a player’s first foul of the game. I can not give a yellow on the first foul of the game. A yellow is mandatory for the first foul of the game.

    If in the referee’s judgement a foul merits a card, red or yellow, he must show the card. If it was a player’s first foul of the match, or the first foul of the match, that’s irrelevant.

  22. 22.

    Richard Mayhew

    October 20, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I know — I was being snarky with the exception of the joy of watching well coached kids play smart ball — but those are the complaints/nuggets of wisdom I’ve heard in the past week or so. I often scratch my head in bewilderment at where these ideas come from.

  23. 23.

    JR in WV

    October 20, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    Thanks all. I was suspecting that was the case…

    I know almost noting about Soccer – futebol – except some of the rules seem similar to Hockey, offsides anyway seems similar. Of course there aren’t red card or yellow card fouls in hockey, and you can’t even be arrested for attacking an opponent with a club…

    I don’t like hockey, too much glorifying of violence which shouldn’t be needed to play a game that could be so graceful without the body checking. Plus I can’t see the puck.

    All is well now, Never mind Richard, I grok your post now.

  24. 24.

    Lee

    October 20, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    My youngest was the center on a U9 game this weekend (which to me is the hands down worst age group to ref, mainly because of the parents).

    She calls a trip. She said it was a clear trip as the ball was not even close to the player’s foot.

    She calls a hand ball. The ball hit both the arm and then face, player retained control.

    She did NOT call a bad throw in. She said it was still fair. It just looked god awful and went about 2 yards.

    It was a tough game for her :(

  25. 25.

    inkadu

    October 20, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    @NotMax: I’d like to give you a buss on the lips for that.

    But we’ve lost the way, I’m afraid, NotMax. Preventative is used everywhere, even in the hallowed halls of medicine. If we can’t convince doctors, then we can’t convince anyone.

    It still annoys me because, as you said, the back formation must “preventate.” But there is some reason people are using preventative, some rule or concept that is being misapplied.

    I just thought of it: additive. One addited to two is three. There is no adjectival form of add, but there is the noun additive; maybe that’s what people are reaching for. It may also be why “preventative” as a noun doesn’t bother me so much, but as an adjective it drives me up a wall.

    Thinking about where differences come from is a salvative to the angerated mind.

    Incidentally: And lets not be confused about our mission. The OED has “preventative” dating from 1655. If we think we’re protecting the English language, we are surely wrong. We are purifying it. God has made all these incorrect usages as stubble to our swords of righteousness. Onward!

    http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/151075?redirectedFrom=preventative#eid

  26. 26.

    Donalbain

    October 21, 2014 at 7:07 am

    @jake the antisoshul soshulist:

    Red card for hair pulling. It would count as an attack to the head.

  27. 27.

    jake the antisoshul soshulist

    October 21, 2014 at 9:20 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    I don’t follow high school soccer closely, but the two schools involved are crosstown rivals and the boy’s soccer games are notorious for the physicality. My daughter attended one of the schools and I have worked with parents of players for both, so I am familiar with the rivaly. That picture was in the local paper, and I do suspect indicates the intensity of the game. In other words, even without seeing the game, I suspect that may have just been an overt example of the type of play. So, there probably should have been a yellow card on each.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • Sally on Well, I Picked a Hell of a Day To Have a Friend Over for Adult Beverages and Early Dinner (Jun 9, 2023 @ 4:07am)
  • Geoduck on Late Night Silly Season Classics Open Thread: We *Want* to Believe ! (Jun 9, 2023 @ 3:51am)
  • Pete Downunder on Late Night Silly Season Classics Open Thread: We *Want* to Believe ! (Jun 9, 2023 @ 3:36am)
  • ron on Late Night Silly Season Classics Open Thread: We *Want* to Believe ! (Jun 9, 2023 @ 3:35am)
  • David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch on Late Night Silly Season Classics Open Thread: We *Want* to Believe ! (Jun 9, 2023 @ 3:35am)

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Seattle Meetup on Sat 5/13 at 5pm!

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
We All Need A Little Kindness
Classified Documents: A Primer
State & Local Elections Discussion

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
TaMara
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Join the Fight!

Join the Fight Signup Form
All Join the Fight Posts

Balloon Juice Events

5/14  The Apocalypse
5/20  Home Away from Home
5/29  We’re Back, Baby
7/21  Merging!

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2023 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!