If we were not engaged in a systemic freak out about a disease that has not killed anyone infected on US soil yet, we would be aggressively vaccinating for the flu right now. The flu is a disease that kills thousands in a good year, and tens of thousands in an average year. Its early symptoms look a lot like Ebola (high fever, coughing, feeling like shit) so people going to the ER or their doctor’s office for a flu visit will be getting screened for Ebola, and there will be some small percentage who falsely fail the Ebola screening and thus have their lives upended. Minimizing the spread of the flu would make Ebola precautions more effective plus get far fewer people sick from a deadly disease.
Yet, we’re doing almost nothing different about this. The CDC is tracking the rates of vaccination in 2013 and 2014. 2014 vaccination rates are up slightly.
Even in a non-Ebola world, health insurers want to pay for the flu vaccine. Mayhew Insurance knocks $200 off individual deductibles for flu shots because it saves a lot of money by avoiding hospitalizations (let’s ignore the avoided feeling like shit days and unplanned time off from a cost accounting view to keep things simple.) It is a massive net win for society to minimize flu in good years. In years where there is another infectious disease whose early symptoms mimic a nasty flu, it is even more of a no brainer if our society actually wanted to solve the problem.
Instead, we get a freak-out and mass hysteria.
aimai
Thanks for reminding me. I really have to get my shot and I need to make sure my daughter gets her shot. I’ll go this afternoon.
aimai
brantl
Proofread much, Richard??
Cervantes
On the one hand:
And on the other hand:
Could be worse, I suppose.
Keith G
Speaking of the great American freak out of 2014, I see that Gov. Martin O’Malley is taking a dump on civil liberties as he tries to protect Connecticut from the great Ebola pandemic that’s spreading across America.
OzarkHillbilly
I got mine.
Baud
@Keith G:
Wrong governor or wrong state?
Baud
I also got my flu shot.
Matt McIrvin
My employer’s giving them out at the office; I got mine a week ago.
Having them set up a table in your office is, I think, a really smart thing to do. Nobody wants to have the flu rip through their workforce.
d58826
A variation on the same idea is TB. I suspect that the average straphanger riding the NY subway system is at greater risk from the airborne TB than Ebola. But Ebola is new and exotic and for the elephants makes for a good scare campaign just before the election.
I’m convinced that God is a republican, otherwise how to explain the happy (for the GOP) series of events this fall. Ebola, terrorism in Canada, ISIS, etc. all of which provide the GOP with campaign fodder and hides their many policy failures. The GOP has no solutions since there really are none. These are problems that have to be managed over the long term but that doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker.
And yes I got my flu shot last month. The medical plan paid for it but would have paid for it my if need be. Paying $50.00 is better than the misery of the flu
Richard Mayhew
@brantl: never
Mary
Pro-tip: A new BSL-4, high fatality rate mutable pathogen within our borders is newsworthy.
I have no idea what you are watching (Breitbart?) but I haven’t seen all that much freakout, just a bunch of unanswered questions.
Cermet
For reasons that have only recently been explained, the flu vaccine lowers the risk of heart attack by nearly 50% (for people with that risk.) Talk about killing two birds … or is that saving with one … shot.
So, I got mine a while ago as did my daughter.
raven
I can’t turn a corner without running into a flu shot op. The doc, the pharmacy, the VA. . .seems like they are everywhere!
raven
I can’t turn a corner without running into a flu shot “provider”. The doc, the pharmacy, the VA. . .seems like they are everywhere! The only thing I see more of is a torrent of mail about medicare supplements.
raven
fuck wordpress
Elmo
Years ago when flu shots were first a thing, I remember that they were for elderly, children, and people with compromised immune systems. I also remember that they were supposed to be of limited utility, because there are so many thousands of strains of flu virus and the vax only protects against a handful.
When did those things change and why?
greennotGreen
We were just talking about this at work (major teaching hospital/biomedical research institution.) If we could just package the flu vaccine as a flu/Ebola vaccine, vaccination rates would go through the roof.
BTW, my institution hosts an annual “Flulapalooza” at which they try to vaccinate as many people as possible (free for employees.) This year they vaccinated 13,000+ in 12 hours. It was a thing of beauty, clockwork choreography. We could handle a pandemic; I’m that confident in our staff.
Belafon
@Elmo: Probably because of the concept of herd immunity. Vaccines have limitations: Not everyone can take it; and for some people, it’s not always affective even against those versions of the virus that it covers. But, if a large enough percentage get the vaccine, the group effect lowers the chances of any one person getting it.
Helen
This is my experience to a tee. I live and work in NYC. For the past week, the conversation for the first 15 minutes every morning is EBOLA – OH SHIT.
My employer gives us free flu shots every year. They are here now. It literally take 2 minutes. When I suggested to my co-workers that maybe, just maybe they should get a flu shot, many of them were “Er, um, no.” And recited the usual excuses: The shot makes you sick…etc.
And I work in non-profit finance with some pretty smart people.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Belafon: Right. The restrictions were also a matter of availability.
As an asthmatic, I’ve always been in the recommended pool. The first few years, manufacturing capacity was kind of small. As production ramped up, we went from “only the recommended pool should get them” to “released in stages, recommended pool first, please, everyone else a week or so later” to “everyone should get it, we have plenty, come on in”.
Punchy
This is either some of the great, subtle snark BJ is famous for, or the most clueless comment I’ve seen in weeks.
Belafon
@greennotGreen: Snopes lead to a CDC link that had a useful stat:
Ruckus
@Richard Mayhew:
I just got in my pedantic laugh for the day. Thanks!
peach flavored shampoo
@Elmo: I think a huge push to (successfully) administer a (successful) flu vax helps to reinforce to the public that vaccines dont give one autism or Hg poisoning or whatever other bullshit meme is circulating.
Basically, regardless of its efficacy on healthy adults, it’s good marketing so that more parents will turn around and give Sweet Baby James his MMR and Hep-B vaxes on time.
greennotGreen
@Belafon: Yeah, but those were post-birth children, so not important.
/bitter snark
Wag
@Punchy:
I vote for clueless
Cervantes
@Belafon:
Here’s a more comprehensive and up-to-date picture.
rikyrah
I’ve always waited until I went to the doctor to get a flu shot. But, Walgreens and CVS Wellness clinics offer them. Anyone had one at either place?
Hunter
@raven: Ditto here in Chicago. Every pharmacy in town is offering flu shots, and most insurance policies cover them with no co-pay. (And for those that don’t, what are they thinking?) One chain was even offering a coupon for 10% off groceries.
Of course, being me, I got mine and three hours later was in bed wrapped in blankets, shivering, sinuses completely out of control. Finally got the nose turned off (after throwing up about a quart of phlegm), slept for eleven hours, and was fine. Horrible, but better than two or three days or misery with a possible trip to the emergency room when it turned into acute bronchitis.
As for the basic question: flu is an everyday sort of things. Everyone gets it at some point, most people get over it. Ebola is foreign, therefore by definition scary. And it would be kind of hard to make the flu Obama’s fault. (But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone tried.)
Cervantes
@Helen:
I guess some people have more — or bigger — or blinder — blind spots than others.
Keith G
@Baud: Good catch, sorry about that. I named it the wrong Mick it is Governor Malloy not O’Malley.
Hunter
@Elmo: Interesting — several years ago, it was recommended that I not get a flu shot because I was undergoing radiation therapy for prostate cancer, which impairs your immune system. It makes a difference what kind of vaccine is available, too — what was being used then was an attenuated virus, which triggers your immune system to produce antibodies, but if your immune system isn’t working very well — well, you can probably guess.
d58826
@rikyrah: I had mine at Walgreens. In and out in 15 minutes on a Monday morning. If you have a medical/perscription plan they handle all of the paper work. All you have to do is roll up your sleeve! My doctor didn’t have his supply yet when I had my early Sept. appointment. It is best to get it early as trher is a 4-6 week period for the full immunity to build up/.
PurpleGirl
As I get my healthcare at a NYC hospital, I’ll get my flu shot at my next medical appointment. They don’t do a separate flu campaign but when you see any medical department, they will ask if you want a flu shot and before you leave, you’ll get the shot. As they have so many people to see on a daily basis, I guess this process works and is more orderly for them.
Cervantes
@d58826:
Exactly right.
Most people do not need to wait for a physician, or even a nurse.
Hunter
@rikyrah: I got mine at Osco, which is my regular pharmacy. Took about three minutes, including filling out the consent forms. I did develop symptoms, but that’s most likely not a result of who administered the shot — I’ve always been particularly vulnerable to upper resp diseases.
MissBarbie
@rikyrah: I routinely get mine (no copay with my HMO, no appointment) at Rite Aid pharmacy. The injection is given by one of the pharmacists in a private consultation room at the drugstore. They counsel before the shot, and make you wait 15 or so minutes afterward, standard medical practice. I recommend it bc safer than sitting around in a doctor’s waiting room full of coughing sneezing people, eh?
Bill Arnold
@Helen:
Tell them that it reduces the chances of a fever that mimics the early symptoms of Ebola.
Belafon
@rikyrah: My company offers them, so I haven’t, but my son has. For some reason, his college does not offer them, so he had to go to Walgreens.
PurpleGirl
@rikyrah: Before I enrolled at the City clinic I had a flu shot through Rite Aid, via a seniors program at my Co-Op. It cost $30 that year. I had no problems with the flu or the shot. (At the City clinic, it’s free.)
Cervantes
@Bill Arnold:
On the other hand, if the flu viruses pick off the weakest members of the herd, our descendants will thank us silently — so there’s that.
d58826
@Bill Arnold: And if you live in NJ, you can avoid the Christie Gulag for sick people.
Belafon
@Cervantes: What if being resistant to the flu is the exact opposite of what you need to be resistant to the T-virus?
d58826
And the idiot on the other side of the NJ/NY border – according to the NY Times – •
Wonder if he donates copies in the public interest? (snark)
Belafon
@d58826:
That way, you’ll strangle yourself long before the 21 days are over, thereby saving the state a lot of money.
scav
maybe we’ll get lucky and there’s an intelligence bias in the flu and flu shot . . . not that we’ve ever been so lucky before best I can tell.
Cuties. Using an outbreak of a archetypical outbreak of deadly disease as a book-selling moment to supposedly demonstrate non-personally-motivated non-grandstanding non-theater motivations. Bless.
Face
Therefore, welcome to the Officially Worst, Most Absurdly Reactionary and Crazy Flu Season Ever.
Please show me where I can bet $100 that “quarantine” is Webster’s 2014’s Word of the Year.
grandpa john
@d58826:
got mine last week at the local CVS pharm.
I’m over 65, diabetic on the Insulin pump thus paid for by Medicare, part B, no copay.
d58826
The Times also is reporting that about 100 people a day enter the US from the three West African countries affected by the virus. They didn’t say how many were health care workers as opposed to just regular travelers. Now that is a lot of people over the past 6 months and there have been only 2 cases of the disease showing up. The average American still stands a better chance of slipping and falling in their bathtub then in contracting ebola.
Josie
@rikyrah: I’ve gotten mine at CVS the last two years. Easy and relatively painless.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Last one I had made me sick. Not full-throttle flu, but sort of a mini-flu. This year’s shot….no problem.
It is kind of a waste of time/effort, I will admit that. What you need is to get enough people to get the wonderful “herd immunity” effect, and we’re not even close. Oh well. People are morons. FWIW I think it’s the yearly injection thing that’s the issue. If you could get this in a pill I think you wouldn’t have any problem getting north of 90% immunizations. The other effective method, and one I never thought of: the poster above who had the nurses come into the office – simply brilliant. Peer pressure will get almost everyone to the table.
steve
@Face:
I’d hate to be a 911 operator in NYC right now. Every cold will elicit a panicked call.
steve
@d58826:
The only silver lining to Cuomo will come when he starts his delusional campaign for president and gets a satisfying beat down in the primaries.
Elizabelle
Thank you for the flu shot reminder, Richard. And when we remind those in our family/social circles, that could help a lot too.
Would be nice if the silver lining of Ebola hysteria brought more flu shots and innoculations to Americans.
Along with a good laugh at the profit-whoring cable and network news channels.
Face
@steve: 911 operators have it easy. I really feel for company HR staff, who’ll be subjected to a brazillion emails of co-workers “reporting” on each other. I feel for flight attendants, who’ll be subjected to the same wails and consternation of every Code Brown passanger (aka, a Fox viewer) witnessing a sneeze or cough.
And may god help school teachers, who have to deal with ~20-30 possibly insane parents upset that some 8 year-old blah with a runny nose is not locked up in a tent outside the city limits for 21 days.
Mnemosyne
I remember reading about a study they did in Japan a few years ago where they showed that immunizing children for the flu was one of the most helpful things you could do to prevent it in the elderly — it was even more effective than immunizing the elderly themselves.
Aimai
@rikyrah: ive had them at cvs for the last few years. Perfectly convenient.
chopper
@OzarkHillbilly:
you need to put ‘screw you’ in front of that statement.
raven
I also got a shingles shot that was covered by my insurance.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
You have to be careful when you look at (or recall) those things. Here is the conclusion drawn in one such study done in the US:
Emphasis mine.
Bobby Thomson
@Keith G:
Pretty sure that’s a violation of at least the dormant commerce clause.
Mnemosyne
@Cervantes:
Here’s an article about the Japanese study:
Here’s a more scientific article about it from the New England Journal of Medicine:
Please explain what you feel I have misrepresented about the study.
Richard Mayhew
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Not a wasted effort. I got my flu shot two weeks ago, my wife got hers a day later, and my kids got theirs’ this weekend. I’m very sure that none of us will get sick this winter from the flu, and there won’t be a wonderfully fun week of nursing a 2 year old or 5 year old back to health from feeling miserable… I’ll take that as a personal win, even if there is not a public health win.
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: I got mine at Walgreens one year. No complaints. You do have to fill out a form with insurance information, whereas at the office the other day I didn’t even need to do that, just sign a thing saying that I wasn’t allergic to flu vaccines or eggs.
shelley
As I was getting my shot I quipped to my doctor, “Yup, don’t want to be mistaken for having Ebola.” He chuckled a bit, then I thought, “god, I wonder how many times he’s heard that joke in the past two weeks?”
Cervantes
@Richard Mayhew: Well, I agree, more or less, but do bear in mind that a vaccine does not come with a guarantee.
Matt McIrvin
@Richard Mayhew: Many years, especially when my daughter was in preschool, I’ve gotten some kind of flu-like infection despite getting a flu shot… there are lots of these things that aren’t actually flu at all, and of course the vaccine isn’t 100% effective and they might guess the strain wrong.
But I get shots when I can, anyway, because I’m playing the odds. I’ve gotten sicker more often in years when I wasn’t vaccinated.
(Nor has the shot ever made me sick, beyond an ache in the shoulder that lasts for a couple of days, and sometimes a mild headache for an afternoon, the kind that ibuprofen can easily get rid of.)
shelley
The man’s becoming a walking cartoon.
*********
It’s funny, CONGRATS, I often have the same reaction. 4-5 hours of feeling like I’m coming down with it; and then *poof*, it’s gone. Happily, no such reaction this year.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@shelley: I get it for a few days, real low-grade, then it’s done. But like you said, none of that this year. Wonder (aside from the viral strain) if anything changed?
Matt McIrvin
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Well, they weren’t exactly lining up out the door (it was in a conference room near the cafeteria in a large office building, maybe not the most visible place). But a fair number of us went in there.
I think flu shots are also becoming a routine component of the physical checkup. In general, I think people are actually doing a lot more than they did even 10 years ago to get people the flu vaccine. (Though the last company I worked for that had in-office vaccination before my current one was actually longer ago than that.)
muddy
@Helen:
It’s the same at my (seasonal, warehouse) job. Same ridiculous responses. Altho I did convince one guy by saying that it was a half hour easy pay out of the workday to go to the “wellness center”.
Matt McIrvin
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
They actually gave my daughter a nasal-spray variant; I think that’s become more common than the shots for vaccinating children. But the nasal-spray vaccine uses an attenuated virus rather than a killed virus, so there are potential issues with immunocompromised people.
muddy
@shelley: @CONGRATULATIONS!: I kind of enjoy getting the 5 hour flu, because I know it did something. The mix of strains in the vaccine is different from year to year, so when I get no reaction I assume I have been previously exposed. I did not get any reaction this year.
Either it’s old hat, or… the vaccine is …broken. Oh noes! Panic attack!
Villago Delenda Est
Good news for John McCain, Comcast, Viacom, News Corp, Disney, and Time-Warner.
Cacti
And unlike ebola, the flu virus is an airborne contagion.
Stella B.
In 2012 there were 48,277 cases of pertussis in the US and 20 deaths. That’s 20 babies that didn’t need to die and 20 times the number of Ebola deaths.
shelley
NewsMax headline: Nine reasons to fear Ebola.
Let me guess, eight of them have to do with Obama.
Oh My God, I just realized. Ebola and Obama both end in an “a” !!
Another Holocene Human
@Elmo: Better manufacturing methods. Seriously. That’s why.
Before it took months to make the vaccine so they could only dole it out to targeted pops.
The flu spray they give the kids now is not grown in chicken eggs.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: Yes. Easy. Free.
However it may be kind to go to one of those doc-in-a-box places. A nurse practitioner or suchlike will administer the shot. Have insurance? Also free.
CVS or Walgreens is making their wage slaves train to administer. Done it several times, never had any problem whatsoever with the jabs but if you go online to pharmacist forums they’re pretty upset. Both places work their pharmD’s and the pharm techs like dogs under somewhat unsafe conditions (pill powder and so on) whereas a doc-in-a-box* is set up to do easy stuff like vaccines.
*urgent care centers or convenient care centers
Pharm people are not in nursing and sometimes they’re pretty ambivalent about taking on nursing tasks.
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne: They’ve done the same in my county and it worked here, too.
School children are bigtime germ spreaders, it turns out. And while they’ve been triaging by giving elderly people the flu jabs all these years (since they were more likely to die) it was pissing in the wind because they don’t develop immunity to flu from the vaccine at the rates one would like.
Herd immunity is the key.
What gets me mad are the healthcare workers who refuse a flu shot. They shouldn’t be able to do that and keep working in a hospital, nursing home, etc. That’s crazy.
Mnemosyne
@Another Holocene Human:
I often refer to kids and babies as “adorable little germ factories.” Because that’s what they are.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
Your original comment about the experience in Japan included the following assertion:
It’s a positive claim. Your first excerpt includes two uses of the verb “suggest,” which is not the same positive claim (plus that section is not about Japan). Your second excerpt does not mention the elderly and is thus not relevant here, but the article it comes from does say the following:
And that’s a good thing. However, the article also points out the following:
So does the article show that immunizing children “was even more effective than immunizing the elderly themselves”? You tell me.
You know, “misrepresented” can be such a harsh word.
JaneE
@Elmo: Partly it is because the vaccine production has been ramped up, and partly because large providers (I have Kaiser) have started offering the shots to everyone, and encouraging their use. I was on the high risk list because of diabetes, and my husband was considered elderly, so we have been getting shots for years. The incidence of flu was so much lower among the vaccinated that they ran the math and decided that free shots for all was a real money saver. They started having vaccination centers in about every clinic, and if you had a doctor visit after the vaccine was available, they would give you a flu shot as a matter of course. I heard someone give a report on cost savings a few years back, and it was millions. Close to a thousand fewer hospitalizations for flu on average, just in SoCal area.
VFX Lurker
@d58826:
I agree wholeheartedly. I just wanted to mention that if any readers here have a medical plan that does not cover flu shots, please consider Costco if you have a Costco membership. Costco charges $14.99 for a flu shot.
Mnemosyne
@Cervantes:
Here, I’ve re-posted the excerpt with the relevant passages highlighted since you seem to have missed them:
I’m not sure what’s still confusing to you about this: immunizing children against the flu is more effective than immunizing the elderly. We have both computer models and real-time studies showing this.
If you have studies showing otherwise, kindly present them now.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve said what I wanted to say about your initial assertion. If what I said is incomprehensible to you, feel free to ignore it. Believe me, I won’t take it personally.
Amy C
I got mine at Target this year. They had a big sign on the door and I had some time to kill and it felt like I didn’t really have a good reason not to get it done while I was there anyway. Meanwhile, my kids’ pediatrician held a flu vaccine clinic on a Sunday morning. We registered online for a certain timeslot, and were in and out of there in no time.
None of this cost us a dime through our insurance. If you hate needles, you can get the mist. Many of the places that offer it, like pharmacies and urgent care centers, are open extremely flexible hours with no appointment needed. The only step we could take to make this any easier as a society is to make it free of charge regardless of insurance status. People who still don’t do it under those terms, I don’t know how we convince them. We probably can’t.
Mnemosyne
@Cervantes:
What’s incomprehensible is that I bothered to try and explain anything to the King of the Pedants. Once you fixate on Someone Is Wrong On A Very Small Point, there’s no way to re-direct you back to the actual point.
gelfling545
@rikyrah: I get mine at CVS every year. They give you a form to inform your dr that you’ve had it. Actually I trust the head pharmacist there more than I do most I doctors.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
but…but…‘suggests’!
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
“Wrong On A Very Small Point”? That may be your aspiration — I couldn’t possibly comment. Meanwhile, here’s your original assertion:
That was the entirety of what you said — and I tried to let you know that the assertion was unwarranted. You responded by quoting from a study — but the study itself pointed out that, while Japanese kids had been immunized for a while, there had not yet been any comparable program to immunize “the elderly themselves.” Do you see the problem? Is it a “Very Small” problem?
Cervantes
@chopper:
You enjoy being a buffoon?
Mnemosyne
@Cervantes:
Again, since you seem to have not paid attention the first two times:
My assertion is that we should focus on immunizing children against the flu, because it prevents flu in the elderly better than only immunizing the elderly does. I used the Japan case study as one of two sources. You seem to think that my assertion was something specifically about the Japan study, not that immunizing children also protects the elderly.
This, again, is what makes you King of the Pedants.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
Again, here’s that assertion in full:
Can you guess which words made me think you were saying “something specifically about the Japan study”?
Just another sequence of syllables you don’t understand.
The punctuation, however, is impeccable. You should celebrate.
chopper
@Cervantes:
Mr. Mosby!
chopper
@Cervantes:
from the first article she posted (the one you’re being so nitpicky about):
when they say ‘the effectiveness of childhood vaccination’ they mean ‘as to protecting others who are not children’. seems like they’re talking about the effectiveness of immunizing children in terms of the elderly there, don’t it?
seriously, ‘smug, overly pedantic guy on the internet’ is a bit of a one-trick pony, man.
Cervantes
@chopper:
Can’t help you, sorry. Good luck thinking it through by yourself.
chopper
@Cervantes:
Oh Jesus, just stop.
She said she remembered a study that showed that vaccinating kids was more effective at preventing deaths in the elderly than vaccinating the elderly.
She cited an article that said yes, the effect is real, computer modeling supports it, and cited the study in question as evidence for the effect. Mnem also cited the study itself, just for shits.
Is this blog the peer review panel of the Journal of Infectious Disease all of a sudden? Or are you just being hopelessly pedantic for no fucking reason at all? Given that you’re Ted Mosby and it’s a day ending in “-day”, it’s pretty clear it’s the latter.
Nicole
Late to the pro-flu shot thread, but I cheerfully admit I was one of those “Oh, it’s good to have to fight things off with your immune system!” for 17 years, and then I got the flu and remembered that when you have the flu, you wish you were dead. I have gotten my shot by Halloween at the latest every year since.
They tend to give the nasal spray to little kids because, for some reason, it’s slightly more effective in kids than the injectable, while the injectable is more effective for adults. Go figure. But I don’t think it’s a big difference.
My son’s public school (a Title 1) has a health clinic on the grounds and they are providing free flu shots during the school day to any kid whose parent signs the consent form, which is nice. Mine went to his pediatrician, but just so I could make sure it was the nasal and not the shot (I already promised him he is done with vaccination shots until he is 11).
He has some friends whose parents are not getting them vaccinated and it just makes me see red. Let alone the small serious illness and mortality risk, why on earth would you be willing to watch your child suffer for a week? Coxsackie was bad enough, and at least there was nothing I could do about that.
chopper
@Nicole:
It’s also much easier to give. My 5yo daughter flips out over shots. It literally takes 30 goddamn minutes in the exam room to convince her to let them happen. And a lot of kids are like that. With the flu mist they’re in and out in 30 seconds.
Cervantes
@chopper:
Four paragraphs.
The first is incoherent and requires no response.
The second paragraph is more or less true.
The third is where your incomprehension shows: you could work on it.
The fourth paragraph is very much like the first.
chopper
Well, if ‘Oh Jesus, just stop’ is incoherent to you I think we’ve found our problem.
Cervantes
@chopper:
There is no “our problem.”
If you are inclined to clear up your own confusion about the subject matter at hand, I narrowed things down for you so you know where to focus your powers. Good luck.
If, on the other hand, the subject matter is not holding your interest, please proceed to do more of whatever it is you are doing — but trust me, it’s not “our problem.”
chopper
@Cervantes:
oh, it’s all of our problem all right.
let’s break it down.
mnem said she remembered an article about a japanese study that showed it was more effective to vaccinate the young than the elderly.
the article:
the article then speaks of the study in question, specifically citing its findings. it mentions the same study earlier in the article as well as to the possibility of 70% being a specific threshold for community-wide protection (which is again mentioned in the japanese study).
no, she didn’t dive into the new england journal of medicine to pick apart its findings and instead took scientific american at their word. boo fucking hoo.
i understand you’re running for head of the Union of Internet Pedants and Wanna-be Experts, but at this point you’re getting to the point where the term ‘pathological’ needs to start being bandied about.
when somebody tells you to just, please stop, and you can’t even comprehend that concept, you need help.
Cervantes
@chopper:
Not exactly, but the point is that while there was a program to vaccinate the young, there was no comparable program to vaccinate the elderly — read that again — which is why the study did not say “it was more effective to vaccinate the young than the elderly.”
The rest of your comment suggests you should not leave your five-year-old at the keyboard.
chopper
@Cervantes:
so basically you’re spending your time harassing some woman at some shmuck’s internet blog because she read a story at Scientific American and didn’t follow it up with the step of scrutinizing in detail a scientific article in the New England Journal of Medicine.
obviously, she’s a moron.
this is nuts. you’re on the ignore list now.
Cervantes
@chopper:
You seem to be uncomfortable with debate. Did it bother you that I questioned her comprehension of an article she herself cited? Did that bother you more than her claiming the article said one thing when it said quite another thing? If so, you might need to figure out why.
As for “harassing,” don’t be silly. Or when you ask me about comments I make “at some shmuck’s internet blog,” is that you “harassing” me?
Leave her aside for a moment. Why don’t you look back to see how long it took you to finally understand the issue?
Yes, that’ll help.